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MoonCat
2011-07-18, 10:43 PM
Yes, I know these threads seem to pop up whenever there's a scene involving the Belkster, but hear me out.

We know he's going to die eventually.

This is the first time the Order are facing a recurring villain since this book started.

The Order seems to be getting rather trounced so far into the battle, Roy is on the verge of unconsciousness, Haley is petrified (which means that the LG outnumbers them), Elan and V are holding their own, but it could be tipped either way, and Durkon and his counterpart are nowhere to be seen.

Belkar's counterpart is chasing after the one living thing Belkar really cares about, and the Scruffinator could easily be running towards the arena.

Thanks to Thog, there is now an enormous hole in the wall that is keeping Belkar inside of the prison.

We know someone is dying in this book.

So, what do you think will happen to Belkar in the following battle?

Kibble Sage
2011-07-18, 11:00 PM
I agree that he's probably as good as dead. It's all set up -- he even gave his dying speech to the cat recently, after all.

Esprit15
2011-07-18, 11:06 PM
I agree that he's probably as good as dead. It's all set up -- he even gave his dying speech to the cat recently, after all.
:elan: A motivational speech!? He's doomed! :smalleek:
Where's the scared Elan face when you need it

MoonCat
2011-07-18, 11:38 PM
:elan: A motivational speech!? He's doomed! :smalleek:
Where's the scared Elan face when you need it

http://i.imgur.com/wPeaW.png Here. :smallbiggrin:

GSFB
2011-07-18, 11:40 PM
My guess? Thog is the one who dies. He is already injured and will soon be out of rage and into exhaustion. And Roy is still moving. And smarter than Thog.

Sorry, Thog fans. His time is about to end.

factotum
2011-07-19, 02:27 AM
My guess? Thog is the one who dies.

Why are you assuming that only person has to die in this? Both Thog *and* Belkar can die, no problem!

Flawless
2011-07-19, 07:36 AM
I don't think Belkar will die. It would be stupid. I mean, why build up all the character development and then kill him off before that's finished? And then, being killed by a random kobold is not really a good end for the Belkster, imho. It should be something karma-rific.

Oh, and without Belkar, OotS would not be the same anymore, so my personal guess is that he'll die when the comic is over (or almost).

Zerg Cookie
2011-07-19, 07:54 AM
Personally I want Belkar to die @ Girard's.
And to be honest, things look bad for Roy. Thog is more than halfway through his rage, but he should still have two or three rounds. Even if he's exhausted, Roy still has to get up.

Kibble Sage
2011-07-19, 08:38 AM
I don't think Belkar will die. It would be stupid. I mean, why build up all the character development and then kill him off before that's finished? And then, being killed by a random kobold is not really a good end for the Belkster, imho. It should be something karma-rific.

Oh, and without Belkar, OotS would not be the same anymore, so my personal guess is that he'll die when the comic is over (or almost).

I don't think it would be stupid for Belkar to die. And who says it would be "a random kobold"? :smallconfused: Sure, the kobold may be the catalyst bringing him into action and to his doom, but we've also got Thog, Zz'dtri, Nale, Sabine, and Qarr on the field at the moment, none of whom are exactly random nobodies.

For that matter, the kobold is essentially a continuation of Yikyik and Yokyok, so in my opinion, Belkar's death at his hands would be karma-riffic. :smallcool:

Jay R
2011-07-19, 10:18 AM
OotS members whose whereabouts are unknown and who were last seen with an evil spellcaster: Durkon
OotS members currently defeated: Haley, Roy
OotS members running from too many foes: Elan, Mr. Scruffy
OotS members in combat with foes they have failed to affect: Vaarsuvius, Blackwing
OotS members safe and out of combat: Belkar

So, of course, the thread title is "Is this It for Belkar?"

Speculative threads are so entertaining.

Blisstake
2011-07-19, 11:36 AM
Evil caster? I don't think there's definitive proof that Malack is evil instead of neutral... and even if he is evil, he seems to be on pretty good terms with Durkon. If anything, I would think he'd be inclined to help the order (he absolutely hates Nale)

theinsulabot
2011-07-19, 11:45 AM
huh, you are right, I hadnt thought about it, but malack wants to bathe in nale's blood, working on the principle that he is the same level as elan's father who is apparently quite skilled, he could be a major game changer if he jumps in looking to take the opportunity to peel off his pound of flesh.

Dakaran
2011-07-19, 11:45 AM
[Snip]

We know someone is dying in this book.

So, what do you think will happen to Belkar in the following battle?

Has Rich said that someone is going to die in this book or is this speculation?

theinsulabot
2011-07-19, 11:54 AM
rich said it, though I dont remember off hand if he said it in a way that precludes resurrection

MoonCat
2011-07-19, 12:11 PM
Has Rich said that someone is going to die in this book or is this speculation?

It was in the commentary for Don't Split The Party. The bit at the end where he says what's going to happen in the next book.

ScrapperTBP
2011-07-19, 12:12 PM
Evil caster? I don't think there's definitive proof that Malack is evil instead of neutral... and even if he is evil, he seems to be on pretty good terms with Durkon. If anything, I would think he'd be inclined to help the order (he absolutely hates Nale)

We know that he has faced them before (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0725.html)

He would definitely jump in if he has lost 3 children to Nale. If Durkon enters the fight it is likely Malack will help seeing as they are getting on so well and he hates Nale anyway. It all depends on whether or not Elan reaches Durkon. I expect there to be a show-down in the halls as Nale and Sabine are chasing him.

Also will Belkar jump into the fight? If he did he may be raised in the future. Durkon is very big on 'doing your part'.
I bet he'd help Belkar if he died.
Evidence: Here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0084.html) and of course here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0687.html)

Cornelius Grim
2011-07-21, 09:51 PM
malack wants to bathe in nale's blood

Eww...

But I don't think Durkon is in any immediate danger with Malack. I do think though, that this may be the end for Belkar, seeing as how the evidence provided in this thread is pretty logical. It'd be decent for the story if Belkar died, but not the comedy. My relations towards Belkar's death are indifferent.

Cracklord
2011-07-21, 10:01 PM
I figure he's actually going to die in The North, and not in this book. Probably alone, unloved, and gutted by O-Chul's bare hands. You know, just as long as we're talking about foreshadowing.

rbetieh
2011-07-21, 10:07 PM
I kind of feel like Belkar could die at any moment with no need to add any story at all. Belkar is the team Munchkin. By convention, these die because rocks fell. The question is really what could Belkar do that would so anger the gods (or metagods) that would cause rocks to fall? I suppose killing the DMPC might be enough, but then he already did that when he killed the Oracle.

denthor
2011-07-21, 11:20 PM
Belkar becomes a statue he does not die. He just cease to draw breath

Lord Loss
2011-07-22, 10:18 AM
Belkar becomes a statue he does not die. He just cease to draw breath

Rich Burlew stated that he doesn't approve of loopholes in prophecies and very strongly implied that Belkar's not going to come back to life. He also explicitly stated that Belkar's going to die in this book.

I'm with him dying now, or when they meet Girard. I just hope Mr. Scruffy sticks around...

hamishspence
2011-07-22, 10:21 AM
When was that? In DSTP it's stated someone's going to die- but Belkar is not explicitly called out.

There's room for the book ending without Belkar dying, and him still being killed before the deadline- but in the next book.

Typewriter
2011-07-22, 10:57 AM
As far as Belkar "Drawing his last breath" I kind of expect him to reveal a crude drawing of a guy breathing, and when questioned he'll say he made this when he heard about the prophecy. He has now 'drawn' his last breath.

Then he will fall into a hole and die.

Klear
2011-07-22, 11:06 AM
Belkar becomes a statue he does not die.

He becomes a lifeless statue forever. Right... that's much better than death.

Zerg Cookie
2011-07-22, 11:24 AM
Belkar becomes a statue he does not die. He just cease to draw breath

Not long to this world.
Unless he's turned to stone and planeshifted, which I find unlikely

hoff
2011-07-22, 11:41 AM
This is why this is the perfect time to kill Durkon. Even better if it happens Off-screen, then he and belkar (when he eventually dies) can have some heaven/hell adventures

MoonCat
2011-07-22, 12:29 PM
I kind of feel like Belkar could die at any moment with no need to add any story at all. Belkar is the team Munchkin. By convention, these die because rocks fell. The question is really what could Belkar do that would so anger the gods (or metagods) that would cause rocks to fall? I suppose killing the DMPC might be enough, but then he already did that when he killed the Oracle.

Somehow I doubt Mr. Burlew is going to kill off a main character who he has stated he likes a lot (in an interview, don't have the link unfortunately) off-panel and make it unimportant. And this thread is about whether now is a likely time for him to die, not to hate on him for being the "team Munchkin".

Nevereatcars
2011-07-22, 12:36 PM
Well, if any of you had actually READ SSDT, Belkar's been dead for months.

rbetieh
2011-07-22, 01:01 PM
I dont hate on Belkar for being a Munchkin, MoonCat, I accept his role for what it is and am enjoying his character and humor while it lasts. I actually think he is a well thought out and insightful character and will miss him when hes gone. The munchkin has to die, not because he is hated, but because thats what happens to all Munchkins eventually. All I am saying is giving him a climactic death seems inapropriate (and un-funny) for his character. For what he is, he will need to die randomly and for no apparent reason, and it will be up to us to figure out which of his actions actually led to the universe dictating his demise. The thought of a noble death for Belkar Bitterleaf is kind of a letdown.

martianmister
2011-07-22, 01:53 PM
He's not a munchkin. He is un-optimized as he can, and he doesn't have a real player. How is that possible? :smallconfused:

Kibble Sage
2011-07-22, 02:05 PM
Somehow I doubt Mr. Burlew is going to kill off a main character who he has stated he likes a lot (in an interview, don't have the link unfortunately) off-panel and make it unimportant. And this thread is about whether now is a likely time for him to die, not to hate on him for being the "team Munchkin".

It has nothing to do with "hate" and everything to do with "amusing irony". Having him killed nobly would be so trite and boring that I, and some others here, I believe, don't think that Rich will handle it that way. Having him killed off by some no-account like Yukyuk, and having him make a snarky comment about it as he dies, would be spectacular in its own way.

Nor does his death need to be "off-panel" to fit this bill. I fully expect it to be "on-panel", it's just that I don't expect it to be self-sacrificingly hurling himself at Xykon three panels before the comic ends or anything. I have more faith in Mr. Burlew's storytelling ability than that.

Belkar's death is definitely going to come out of left field, is all I can say.

rbetieh
2011-07-22, 02:36 PM
He's not a munchkin. He is un-optimized as he can, and he doesn't have a real player. How is that possible? :smallconfused:

He tried to kill Elan for XP, refers to mooks as XP, spun up a fake sob-story for XP, and is currently pretending to have character growth as a way of staying in the game (presumably so he can get even more XP). It also doesnt help that he is a small-sized character. :smallwink:

This is why he will go out with a random, non-epic, probably unlinked to the story death. For instance, when thog broke the wall, rocks could have fallen on Belkar....ooops.

Magicyop
2011-07-22, 02:43 PM
Well, if any of you had actually READ SSDT, Belkar's been dead for months.

Wait, what? :smallconfused:

Firstly, this doesn't make sense.

Secondly, I thought that SS&DT hadn't been shipped out yet...

Nevereatcars
2011-07-22, 03:49 PM
Wait, what? :smallconfused:

Firstly, this doesn't make sense.

Secondly, I thought that SS&DT hadn't been shipped out yet...

SOMEBODY has not read SSDT. Your loss, ner vod.

super dark33
2011-07-22, 03:53 PM
Belkar is the team Munchkin.

nope, hes even the second weak char in the party.
hes not that powerfull, the times he killed many foes were times he killed mooks (levels 1-5). none of the mooks he slain were above level 8.

Esprit15
2011-07-22, 03:54 PM
SOMEBODY has not read SSDT. Your loss, ner vod.

Hey, there is no reason to insult him because he didn't get a book that he ordered and didn't get shipped yet.

Zerg Cookie
2011-07-22, 04:05 PM
Wait, what? :smallconfused:

Firstly, this doesn't make sense.

Secondly, I thought that SS&DT hadn't been shipped out yet...

It hadn't.

Edit: mega-ninja'd. I should stop loading pages to read later and not refresh them before posting

Jade Dragon
2011-07-22, 04:34 PM
SOMEBODY has not read SSDT. Your loss, ner vod.

Sorry, but I ordered the book about two months ago and it hasn't come. I doubt you've read it at all.

BillyBobJoe
2011-07-22, 04:36 PM
Sorry, but I ordered the book about two months ago and it hasn't come. I doubt you've read it at all.

Don't worry, no one's gotten it yet, they're just messing with our heads. or are they?

rbetieh
2011-07-22, 05:02 PM
nope, hes even the second weak char in the party.
hes not that powerfull, the times he killed many foes were times he killed mooks (levels 1-5). none of the mooks he slain were above level 8.

Oh Really now? 011 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0011.html) Hmm, single-hit kills the boss monster (and spellcaster) of the encounter seems right because a 1d4 dagger is going to kill a multiple HD monster in 1-hit :smallconfused:. He seems to do that 1-hit kill thing a lot.

Then theres the kill stealing (see Chimera). The epic Kobold (equal level) battle. Amazingly he has a cloak of hiding stashed away just for when he wants to sneak up to another enemy spellcaster and kill him. He 1-hits the hag with a "rage jumping attack". Oh and more recently he killed the leader of the beetles dude (who I presume to be the highest of the HD beetles) and Haleys equal-level assasin rival was also beaten inexplicably by belkar (who is supposed to have less XP than the rest of the team, the whights got him, remember). Face it, Belkar rolls 20's 3/4 of the time in this comic. No one but he is that "lucky". He is cheating just like any good munchkin should.

Nevereatcars
2011-07-22, 05:59 PM
Don't worry, no one's gotten it yet, they're just messing with our heads. or are they?

I'm messing with you. I'm not sure about the other ones. or am I?

super dark33
2011-07-22, 06:10 PM
Oh Really now? 011 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0011.html) Hmm, single-hit kills the boss monster (and spellcaster) of the encounter seems right because a 1d4 dagger is going to kill a multiple HD monster in 1-hit :smallconfused:. He seems to do that 1-hit kill thing a lot.

Then theres the kill stealing (see Chimera). The epic Kobold (equal level) battle. Amazingly he has a cloak of hiding stashed away just for when he wants to sneak up to another enemy spellcaster and kill him. He 1-hits the hag with a "rage jumping attack". Oh and more recently he killed the leader of the beetles dude (who I presume to be the highest of the HD beetles) and Haleys equal-level assasin rival was also beaten inexplicably by belkar (who is supposed to have less XP than the rest of the team, the whights got him, remember). Face it, Belkar rolls 20's 3/4 of the time in this comic. No one but he is that "lucky". He is cheating just like any good munchkin should.

there is one flaw in your statment:

Plot>Rules
the rules just make the comic funnier.

rbetieh
2011-07-22, 06:17 PM
there is one flaw in your statment:

Plot>Rules
the rules just make the comic funnier.

Plausible explaination, but then again, Munchkins dont follow rules (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0230.html)

super dark33
2011-07-22, 07:24 PM
Plausible explaination, but then again, Munchkins dont follow rules (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0230.html)

the rules i am talking about are the game rules that always apply unless plot interferes.

CHAOTICS dont follow rules (law and order rules) if they want to, those who doesnt (like elan) just feel restraind by it.
belkar as chaotic evil, doesnt care about rules so they wont keep him

Elvenwonder
2011-07-22, 11:48 PM
I doubt it. I could be wrong, but I think it's much more likely that he'll die in the final battle. Whether he's a likable character or not, he's definately one of the six main characters, and the core cast rarely dies for good before the end.

KingofMadCows
2011-07-23, 01:32 AM
I think it's far more likely that V will kill Belkar while under the possession of the IFCC.

Zerg Cookie
2011-07-23, 08:50 AM
I think it's far more likely that V will kill Belkar while under the possession of the IFCC.

Love that idea :smallbiggrin:

MoonCat
2011-07-23, 11:42 AM
I think it's far more likely that V will kill Belkar while under the possession of the IFCC.

Uh, what makes that unlikely that hell die in this battle? I never said who, where, why, or how they would kill him, just saying this might be when it happens.

KingofMadCows
2011-07-23, 07:48 PM
Uh, what makes that unlikely that hell die in this battle? I never said who, where, why, or how they would kill him, just saying this might be when it happens.

It would be more dramatic for V to kill Belkar. None of the bad guys around have any meaningful relationship with Belkar. If Thog or Nale or Tarquin or even the Kobold kills Belkar then there wouldn't be any big consequences. Sure, Roy might swear vengeance against the person who killed Belkar, then they'd resurrect Belkar, but that'd be pretty much it.

If V kills Belkar while under the control of the IFCC, there would be a ton of fallout and the potential for a lot of great dialogue. Belkar will no doubt be able to get off a few good jabs in before V finishes him off. V would feel immensely guilty for killing Belkar despite the fact that V hates Belkar. Since the IFCC have epic level magic, they could kill Belkar in such a way that he could not be resurrected even by miracle, true resurrection, or wish. It would create a lot more conflicts within the group and V becoming obsessed with trying to bring back Belkar.

Dr. Magic
2011-07-23, 08:58 PM
why does ANYONE have to kill belkar? why can't he fall into the snarl and get erased from existence?

Kibble Sage
2011-07-23, 09:49 PM
why does ANYONE have to kill belkar? why can't he fall into the snarl and get erased from existence?

Well, there is the issue that the Snarl may not exist.

MoonCat
2011-07-23, 11:11 PM
It would be more dramatic for V to kill Belkar. None of the bad guys around have any meaningful relationship with Belkar. If Thog or Nale or Tarquin or even the Kobold kills Belkar then there wouldn't be any big consequences. Sure, Roy might swear vengeance against the person who killed Belkar, then they'd resurrect Belkar, but that'd be pretty much it.

If V kills Belkar while under the control of the IFCC, there would be a ton of fallout and the potential for a lot of great dialogue. Belkar will no doubt be able to get off a few good jabs in before V finishes him off. V would feel immensely guilty for killing Belkar despite the fact that V hates Belkar. Since the IFCC have epic level magic, they could kill Belkar in such a way that he could not be resurrected even by miracle, true resurrection, or wish. It would create a lot more conflicts within the group and V becoming obsessed with trying to bring back Belkar.

I mean why are they exclusive? V could kill Belkar in this battle.

KingofMadCows
2011-07-23, 11:54 PM
I mean why are they exclusive? V could kill Belkar in this battle.

Except there's no reason for V to do that. There's also no reason for the IFCC to take control of V in this battle.

For dramatic reasons, it would be more likely if Belkar is killed when he gets in V's way while V is under the IFCC's control, which will probably happen when they're at the next gate.

Dakaran
2011-07-25, 01:38 PM
Can someone quote the commentary from DStP where Rich talks about someone dying in this book? My copy is sadly currently in storage as I'm in the process of moving. Does the commentary specifically state that someone from the Order will die or does it say something along the lines of a major character? As I don't have it to reference at the moment this is speculation, but if the commentary doesn't specifically say that a member of the Order will die couldn't the death be of a major villain, such as Nale or Sabine? Or perhaps someone important to the plot like Girard?

super dark33
2011-07-25, 01:46 PM
Belkar WILL die. no matter what. its a prophasy.

Kibble Sage
2011-07-25, 01:55 PM
Well, Belkar's time is almost up. So it stands to reason he's got a high chance of biting it.

Dakaran
2011-07-25, 02:08 PM
Sorry, let me clarify. I'm not disputing that Belkar will die. I'm trying to decide if I believe he will die in this book or in a later one. Personally I think he'll die at the tail end of the series, but I'm open to debate on it which is why I'm hoping someone will post the actual commentary from DStP for reference.

hamishspence
2011-07-25, 02:51 PM
Spoilered for those who want to wait to read the book themselves.

In the next volume of The Order of the Stick, people will travel someplace. While there, they will meet other people- some new, others not- and discover facts that they didn't know. Some of those facts will in turn lead to conflict and additional discoveries, while others will not. There will be a lot of jokes- some that you find funny, others that you do not. The characters will talk a lot. Someone...
...will drink a beverage!

What?

OK, OK, fine, how about this then: In the next volume of The Order of the Stick, readers will meet, for the very first time, one of the "nine sides" mentioned by the demon roaches in strip #548. That's right, there will be at least one entirely as-yet-unrevealed player in the struggle for the Gates who will be ... well, revealed.
Oh, and someone will die. But I bet you already knew that, right?

And with that, we've come to the end of another compilation book.

Dakaran
2011-07-25, 03:04 PM
Thanks hamishspence! Based on the quoted/spoiled text... Rich merely states that someone will die. The ambiguity of that statement really doesn't specifically support the death of Belkar by the end of the book. Obviously I think Rich is referring to a character that has a name. There have been tons of NPCs that have died thus far in this book. Heck, like 23 of them were burned in the shape of Elan's name. My point is that it's just as likely if not more so that a member of the Linear Guild, Tarquin or Malack, Haley's dad or uncle, the Queen of Blood, or Girard will be killed by the end of the book as opposed to Belkar or another member of the OotS.

sims796
2011-07-25, 03:10 PM
Heh. Everytime Belkar so much as sneezes, that means it's the begining of the end for him.

Kibble Sage
2011-07-25, 03:23 PM
Heh. Everytime Belkar so much as sneezes, that means it's the begining of the end for him.

On the other hand, it's only natural for people to assume it, because his time IS running out very rapidly. :smallsmile:

martianmister
2011-07-25, 06:19 PM
Oh, and someone will die. But I bet you already knew that, right?

That's it! Good bye Belkar... :smallbiggrin:

MoonCat
2011-07-25, 06:23 PM
Heh. Everytime Belkar so much as sneezes, that means it's the begining of the end for him.

Well, it could be someone else, but right now I'm kind of seeing a situation where it is totally reasonable that he may die.

sims796
2011-07-25, 08:21 PM
Well, it could be someone else, but right now I'm kind of seeing a situation where it is totally reasonable that he may die.

My bad, it was a quick joke. But you gotta agree, they do pop up like crazy. I remember when that random commoner came along, and everyone thought it made perfect sense the Belkster would meet his end, until Mr. Scruffy came along and gave us all the middle finger.

But yeah, not saying there isn't reason to think he'll die now.

RickDaily12
2011-07-25, 08:50 PM
I'm inclined to agree with the DSTP quoters on this one.

Belkar doomsayers need to admit one thing: Unless I may have missed a forum post somewhere in a thread, there is no significant evidence of Belkar dying in this story arc, let alone this battle.

We know when he dies. Sometime before the end of the comic year. But if you read the commentary for DSTP, the words "Belkar will die before the end of the next volume" are not there, heck, they aren't even implied.

I think Belkar is going to be killed by the Snarl, several volumes from now. My viewing on that stance will stick until one of the following happens: 1., a comic contradicts that bearing. 2., a FUTURE Volume's commentary contradicts that bearing. Or 3, Rich says so otherwise on a forum thread, in that case, please quote.

But I'm sorry, Doomsayers. If the above paragraph cannot be proven present, you have little or no evidence suggesting Belkar will die within the near future.


Well, there is the issue that the Snarl may not exist.

Whoa! Slow down there. If the Snarl doesn't exist, mind explaining how Mijung Kim came to pass? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0275.html)

Esprit15
2011-07-25, 09:08 PM
Whoa! Slow down there. If the Snarl doesn't exist, mind explaining how Mijung Kim came to pass? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0275.html)
I'll correct the person who said that: perhaps the Snarl no longer exists.

RickDaily12
2011-07-25, 09:18 PM
I'll correct the person who said that: perhaps the Snarl no longer exists.

How would that work? If you will grant me that 60 years ago, Mijung Kim was killed by an existing Snarl, and it's been existing all this time the world was recreated, what would happen to suddenly cease its existance?

Besides, the gods still seem sure that the Snarl is still in play...

Keep in mind all the plotwork centered around The Dark One with Redcloak's story in SoD. The Dark One was the one who sent Redcloak out to assist him with "The Plan" the day all the goblins were massacred by the Sapphire Guard. I'm sure his own deity would be able to track the Snarl's movements along with all the other gods of the North, South, and West.

Wouldn't you agree?

Esprit15
2011-07-25, 09:22 PM
I'm just judging based on what Blackwing saw in the rift.

RickDaily12
2011-07-25, 09:28 PM
Yeah, that much is confusing... but it was only recently introduced. For all we know, that planet has always been there this entire time... or might even be an illusion. Meanwhile, the gods absoultely refuse to give their followers any information, at all, about any of the Gates or the nature of the Snarl... or most of them, at least. Don't worry, Rich will explain what that planet means in due time.

Until then, 60 years is fairly recent. I'm not convinced that the Snarl suddenly disappeared, and transformed into a planet. New information might be missing, but I wouldn't say the facts have changed just yet.

factotum
2011-07-26, 01:58 AM
Whoa! Slow down there. If the Snarl doesn't exist, mind explaining how Mijung Kim came to pass? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0275.html)

We know that Mijung was killed next to a rift. We don't actually know by WHAT. Any information about the Snarl must have come from the Gods (since they're the only ones who were around to see World #1) and it's entirely likely they have something to hide, especially considering what Blackwing saw when he looked into the rift!

I mean, what's more likely here--that the Snarl and everything about it was a lie from beginning to end, and something else killed Mijung; or that the Snarl was lurking in the rift right up to the time the gates were built around 60 years ago, but then turned into a planet?

super dark33
2011-07-26, 05:04 PM
Belkar doomsayers need to admit one thing: Unless I may have missed a forum post somewhere in a thread, there is no significant evidence of Belkar dying in this story arc, let alone this battle.
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Well, as DSTP says: somone will die, but i bet you know that already! says it all.

we all know about the prophasy that he WILL die, one way or anouter.
so if somone dies in here and we know it, that narrows the possabillitys to belkar, as 'somone' means an importent charecter like one of the OOTS or Tarquin and co.

factotum
2011-07-27, 01:52 AM
we all know about the prophasy that he WILL die, one way or anouter.
so if somone dies in here and we know it, that narrows the possabillitys to belkar, as 'somone' means an importent charecter like one of the OOTS or Tarquin and co.

Actually, we also know that Durkon is going to die at some point because of the prophecy that he returns to his homeland "posthumously", and since Kraagor's Gate (one assumes in or near Durkon's home) is the only one left after Girard's, Durkon will presumably die at some point during this gate arc as well. Doesn't mean that'll be while they're in the Empire of Blood, of course, but it does show that Belkar isn't the only candidate here!

Dakaran
2011-07-27, 08:36 AM
Actually, we also know that Durkon is going to die at some point because of the prophecy that he returns to his homeland "posthumously", and since Kraagor's Gate (one assumes in or near Durkon's home) is the only one left after Girard's, Durkon will presumably die at some point during this gate arc as well. Doesn't mean that'll be while they're in the Empire of Blood, of course, but it does show that Belkar isn't the only candidate here!

+1. A few weeks back there was a thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205521) that discussed the death of Durkon. I strongly believe that Durkon will die during the current Gate story thread (I'm presuming the story of Girard's gate will be wrapped up within the current book), but since this thread is about Belkar I won't go into a big thing about Durkon and I'll just say that I think the chances or in Belkar's favor to survive this book especially since there are a lot of other significant characters that are legitimate candidates to be killed either because there's solid evidence for their death or the fact that the Giant is pretty good at throwing curveballs.

Yora
2011-07-27, 10:03 AM
I don't think Belkar will die. It would be stupid. I mean, why build up all the character development and then kill him off before that's finished? And then, being killed by a random kobold is not really a good end for the Belkster, imho. It should be something karma-rific.
Belkar stabs the guard in front of the cell, slips in the blood and breaks his neck.

LrdoftheRngs
2011-07-28, 11:31 PM
ner vod.

Ni Jorha'iir'tion Mando'a?

(Forgive my spelling if it is wrong)
And I know I'm about a page late.

RickDaily12
2011-07-29, 02:59 PM
Belkar doomsayers need to admit one thing: Unless I may have missed a forum post somewhere in a thread, there is no significant evidence of Belkar dying in this story arc, let alone this battle.
^^

Well, as DSTP says: somone will die, but i bet you know that already! says it all.

we all know about the prophasy that he WILL die, one way or anouter.
so if somone dies in here and we know it, that narrows the possabillitys to belkar, as 'somone' means an importent charecter like one of the OOTS or Tarquin and co.
^^

We know when he dies. Sometime before the end of the comic year. But if you read the commentary for DSTP, the words "Belkar will die before the end of the next volume" are not there, heck, they aren't even implied.
:smallsigh:

dtilque
2011-07-29, 11:22 PM
My guess is that Belkar dies when he wanders away from the party and gets bit by a rabid bat. However, except for a few minor changes (tendency to wear black capes, a slight overbite, vaguely Eastern European accent, favorite books having "Twilight" in their title) no one notices.

rbetieh
2011-07-29, 11:32 PM
My guess is that Belkar dies when he wanders away from the party and gets bit by a rabid bat. However, except for a few minor changes (tendency to wear black capes, a slight overbite, vaguely Eastern European accent, favorite books having "Twilight" in their title) no one notices.

Vampire Belkar would be funny, since he seems to dislike undead as it is and already made a great fake zombie.

tassaron
2011-07-30, 06:47 PM
How exactly does "but I bet you already knew that!" not imply Belkar? There's only two people any reader could reasonably "know" is going to die at the end of DSTP, those being Belkar and Durkon. And when this quote is located just a few pages after Roy saying that Belkar is going to die soon (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0666.html), that does heavily imply that Belkar is the person he's talking about.

"But I bet you already knew that!" would make no sense whatsoever if it was someone like Nale or Tarquin dying, since no one would have any reason to even think that those characters are returning soon by the end of DSTP. It's not a quote from now, it's a quote from before the Order had even gone to the desert.

It could totally be Rich intentionally misleading people, but the quote as-is almost certainly refers to Belkar.

Dakaran
2011-07-30, 06:59 PM
How exactly does "but I bet you already knew that!" not imply Belkar? There's only two people any reader could reasonably "know" is going to die at the end of DSTP, those being Belkar and Durkon. And when this quote is located just a few pages after Roy saying that Belkar is going to die soon (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0666.html), that does heavily imply that Belkar is the person he's talking about.

"But I bet you already knew that!" would make no sense whatsoever if it was someone like Nale or Tarquin dying, since no one would have any reason to even think that those characters are returning soon by the end of DSTP. It's not a quote from now, it's a quote from before the Order had even gone to the desert.

It could totally be Rich intentionally misleading people, but the quote as-is almost certainly refers to Belkar.

Option 1: As you put it the only people we know are going to die are Belkar and Durkon. Yes we have evidence that Belkar will die "soon", but in my opinion I feel that there is way more evidence that Durkon will die before Belkar. Unless both of them die in this book, which would be crazy... :smallamused:

Option 2: The Giant could be simply winking at his readers. He kills lots of characters ranging from random encounters like the gnome with a candy bar to the very unexpected and prominent (albeit temporary) death of a main character. Of course someone is going to die in this book. The death-toll is already rather large for this book and will certainly continue to climb.

Dr. Strangelove
2011-08-06, 04:35 AM
Personally I'd like to see belkar die saying the world from the snarl. Seriously, he gives his life to stop the snarl from wiping out the world simply because he can't bear the world being erased and no one being around to remember him. So he dies and makes sure people have to remember him forever, purely out of selfish ego.

mrmcfatty
2011-08-06, 01:24 PM
All books except the first one have been ~180 comics. Which gives us about roughly 50-60 more before this book ends, if rich decides to keep the trend going. Personally I dont think that belkar will die in the book.

However, i could see durkon dying and LG excaping, again, and malack decides to join because he knows that nale will attack again and some point and he wants to be there when it happens. And as a honor for one cleric to another, malack brings durkon back to his homeland. maybe?


As far as the snarl and the planet in the rift goes, several things could be happening.

1. not likely but maybe, just maybe, the snarl became "intelligent" after all those years trapped and tried to understand what was trapping him, ergo he became/created what trapped him to try to understand how to destroy it.

2. maybe the "snarl" isnt real at all, and in a sci-fi kind of way, the rift is an opening to another reality and the two realities cannot co-exist and the energy tearing them apart is personified as "snarl." the gods may have been the ones to create the rifts into another reality but failed to understand what they have done.

3. More of a continuation of 2, but what if this other reality is our world, and something kind of like erfworld with parson is going on but in a much different way. Maybe the entire campaign and world of oots is just someones imagination, kind of like a cartoon in a thought bubble but they found a way out via the rifts?

more than likely, nothing close to those, but still, food for thought.

mini_magician
2011-08-06, 05:07 PM
Here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0329.html) it says that Belkar should enjoy his next birthday cake. If we don't know when Belkar's birthday is, it could potentially be from just a few months of this strip to 23 months (assuming Belkar had just had his birthday). Really, he could die anytime between birthdays.Here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0666.html) it says they have 7 weeks... In OoPC's Roy had pretty detailed applications, and although Belkar kind of skipped that process, maybe Roy would have found out Belkar's birthday afterwards...

Of course, I don't even know if Belkar's death is what the 7 weeks are referring too. If it is, then it's probably been about 1 week since Roy said that, plus however long it took to sail to the western continent. Of course, that means about 140 comic strips made up a week, so at that pace the Giant could easily put out another thousand comics before the seven weeks is up.

hamishspence
2011-08-06, 05:23 PM
It's the Oracle's last prophesy about Belkar, that Roy's spirit heard: "Will draw his last breath- ever, before the end of the year".

So Roy doesn't need to know when Belkar's birthday is.

He knows the year has 7 weeks left, so he says that if Belkar's plan will take more than 7 weeks, it won't matter.

Later (around strip 725) The Giant mentioned two weeks have lapsed since strip 666.


Since the battle took place about a week after the New Year, that means two weeks have passed since Roy's "seven weeks" comment--a few days to travel to Sandsedge, a week spent searching the desert, and a few days looking around the cities on the continent.

MoonCat
2011-08-06, 05:36 PM
All books except the first one have been ~180 comics. Which gives us about roughly 50-60 more before this book ends, if rich decides to keep the trend going. Personally I dont think that belkar will die in the book.

Assuming we end in about 65 strips (the last two books have been four longer than the previous, so it's just a convenient number that is more probably more accurate than 50), that's still a pretty good chunk of strips in which Belkar could get himself endangerd, even if all remaining strips are split equally for one for each Order member, that's still 32 strips of Belkar.

ScrapperTBP
2011-08-06, 07:24 PM
I'm just judging based on what Blackwing saw in the rift.

Well if we remember the Snarl is made by the same thing that created the world of which we read about i.e. threads of reality, it becomes less 'out-there'. In my opinion anyway.

Could it be that because the Snarl is a being of pure chaos and it hasn't been it hasn't been able demonstrate this in so long that it is in fact in a dormant state? If we link this into the fact that the world is made of what the Snarl is made of it could be that it's dormant state is that of a world. It was technically a world in the first place. It was made from knots in the world.

Could it be that the wardings that seal the rifts caused the Snarl to become dormant in this way?

In terms of Belkar's death I like to think that it will be similar to Kraagor's. Very similar in fact. I like to think that the Order will have to each make a gate as they are all destroyed. Belkar will die as I have said and then maybe Elan or V will make his dungeon. I like the idea of V doing it after they feuds etc.

Hmmm. The more I think about it the more I like this idea. I think it could actually happen...


...enter somebody to trounce this...

Gift Jeraff
2011-08-06, 08:01 PM
I doubt the ending's going to have the Order making new Gates. I think the problem/mystery of the Snarl will be permanently solved this time around.

ScrapperTBP
2011-08-06, 08:16 PM
I doubt the ending's going to have the Order making new Gates. I think the problem/mystery of the Snarl will be permanently solved this time around.

I can't see them destroying the Snarl though. I don't think they are strong enough

WeLoveFireballs
2011-08-06, 09:34 PM
Personally I'd like to see belkar die saying the world from the snarl. Seriously, he gives his life to stop the snarl from wiping out the world simply because he can't bear the world being erased and no one being around to remember him. So he dies and makes sure people have to remember him forever, purely out of selfish ego.

He doesn't die to save the world from the snarl just Mr.Scruffy and unintentionally saved the world along with him! :smallbiggrin:

factotum
2011-08-07, 02:14 AM
I can't see them destroying the Snarl though. I don't think they are strong enough

You're assuming the Snarl actually exists, but Blackwing didn't see it when he looked into the rift above Azure City!

ScrapperTBP
2011-08-07, 07:23 AM
You're assuming the Snarl actually exists, but Blackwing didn't see it when he looked into the rift above Azure City!

See my slightly earlier post on the matter