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acid_ninja
2011-07-21, 12:47 AM
I'm all about pathfinder but, unfortunately, the fighter is still the red-headed stepchild. I'm trying to find a way to make the fighter tier 3. I've got a couple ideas that I'd like to run by the playground:

Skills:
Give them 4 skill points per level. Add Perception, Diplomacy, Knowledge (History) and Knowledge (Nobility) to the list of class skills.


New Mechanic:
Give the figher a pool, similar to the Magus' arcane pool, that they can spend points from to power special abilities. Call it the 'battle pool' or something. I'm thinking make it equal to 1/2 fighter level + either Int or Wis - not sure which (maybe player's choice?). Refreshes after 8 hours' rest. There would be a default use and then 'menu choices' as you level up. I'm thinking maybe one every three levels.

Menu choices:

You may spend a point to gain one move action (must be at least a 6th level fighter)

You may spend a point to get a new saving throw that you failed last round

You may spend a point as an immediate action to make an AoO (the opponent must still provoke the AoO)

You can spend a point as an immediate action to re-roll a single melee attack (made after the attack is rolled but before you know if it hits or not)

You can spend a point to gain the benefits of one combat feat for the duration of the encounter. You must still meet the pre-requisites of the feat.

You may spend a point to add a bonus of 1/2 your fighter level to any combat manuever check.


Other tweaks:
Any combat feat that provides a static bonus (dodge, weapon focus, etc) scales, providing the same bonus again at every level divisible by 5. While this is good for everyone, its especially good for fighters since their main thing is feats and making feats better makes fighters better.

Spring attack, cleave, vital strike and dirty trick are simply attacks for a fighter (and a fighter only), allowing them to be used together (and in conjunction with trip, disarm and sunder). (Not sure how to define a fighter for this purpose. I'd almost say that you can do it only if they were taken as fighter bonus feats, but that would involve a lot of bookkeeping)

What I'd like help with is:

a) figuring out what the pool should be based on. 1/2 fighter level + ? Wis or Int are obvious choices but I don't want to make the fighter MAD. OTOH, these are meant to compliment what a fighter can already do and allow them to do it more, so they're not meant to be too much of an investment. Basing it on STR cuts out the MAD but I don't think it works flavor wise. Maybe make it straight fighter level? I like that because the whole point is to make the fighter more viable as a 1-20 class and not to encourage dips.

b) balancing the menu choices and working out a progression - how many choices do you get? What choices can you have at which level? Any other ideas?

Hiro Protagonest
2011-07-21, 12:51 AM
Battle pool should have the option of having the base number be 1/2 fighter level + Con (for stamina) or Int (for clever moves). Maybe Wis or Dex as well. There should also be moves specific to which stat is picked.

Ashtagon
2011-07-21, 02:58 AM
That battle pool is pretty much the martial prowess from my fighter fix I proposed a whileback, which everyone said was weaksauce. I made it 3 + 1/3 class levels though, which is probably too few in retrospect. My revised version in the second link added true grit, as a bonus for his saving throws.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150080&highlight=soldier
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152539&highlight=soldier

Timeless Error
2011-07-21, 06:58 AM
I also had a similar idea to your "Battle Pool," which can be found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202888) under "Battle Points." I didn't get much feedback on it (and the thread is too old to be posted in anymore, so I probably won't be getting much in the future never mind, it won't expire until the end of the month), and I have yet to playtest it, so I can't really tell you how well it works.

Yitzi
2011-07-21, 04:07 PM
What I would advise is to give up on making fighter tier 3 and instead move it to an appropriate point between tier 4 and tier 2, such that it is overall on part with tier 3. (Unlike tier 3, tiers 2 and 4 both do not require substantial versatility; giving fighters low versatility as compared to tier 3 but higher power (but not quite game-breaking) seems the best approach to me.)

Hiro Protagonest
2011-07-21, 04:10 PM
What I would advise is to give up on making fighter tier 3 and instead move it to an appropriate point between tier 4 and tier 2, such that it is overall on part with tier 3. (Unlike tier 3, tiers 2 and 4 both do not require substantial versatility; giving fighters low versatility as compared to tier 3 but higher power (but not quite game-breaking) seems the best approach to me.)

That won't work. That'll just make him better at hitting stuff. What he needs is to be able to hit opponents who are flying, invisible, etc. AKA versatility.

acid_ninja
2011-07-21, 05:30 PM
That battle pool is pretty much the martial prowess from my fighter fix I proposed a whileback, which everyone said was weaksauce. I made it 3 + 1/3 class levels though, which is probably too few in retrospect.

So then, maybe 4 + 1/2 class level to start with and add a feat that grants you another (two, three, four points?).

Yitzi
2011-07-21, 07:58 PM
That won't work. That'll just make him better at hitting stuff. What he needs is to be able to hit opponents who are flying, invisible, etc. AKA versatility.

Hmmm...
A jump-based feat, or some boost to archery, could help with flying opponents, and blind-fight (or some improvement to it) plus a decent-range blindsense could work against invisible opponents. (So, if the opponent has to cast to attack, could a decent listen check and a bag of sand.)
But even so, I'd say the goal should still be at most versatility in countering combat tactics, not overall versatility that extends to noncombat and alternate attack modes.

Hiro Protagonest
2011-07-21, 11:19 PM
-deleted by self-

Ashtagon
2011-07-21, 11:28 PM
link to scanned manga

You know, despite their claim of fair use, I am not at all sure that scan is legal.

Hiro Protagonest
2011-07-21, 11:29 PM
You know, despite their claim of fair use, I am not at all sure that scan is legal.

Wait, it might be copyrighted. I'll delete that link.