[3.5e Bloodline Guide] What in the Nine Hells is a Bloodline? [Archive]

View Full Version : [3.5e Bloodline Guide] What in the Nine Hells is a Bloodline?

Welknair

2011-07-24, 06:43 PM

If you hadn't noticed, I (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192154) like (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203394) making (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11258328#post11258328) bloodlines (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11401331#post11401331). The problem is, not many people know what they are or how to use them. I frequently get asked "Is this some sort of super-weak class?" or "What exactly is this?" and similar things. So I'm going to explain them.

WHAT IN THE NINE HELLS IS A BLOODLINE?

http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs50/i/2009/278/c/f/Blood_on_Cloak_by_mohzart.jpg

A (Not so?) Brief Introduction

Here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm) is the basis. The concept was originally given in Unearthed Arcana (That one book with tons of variant rules) as a way to give characters with supernatural heritages a way to progressively gain powers instead of having them dumped on them at level one. And with LA races, often the benefits gained mean very little by level 20 because said benefits had to be balanced for level 1 play. And that LA hurts. Well Bloodlines allow the character to gain continual benefits that are hopefully balanced for the level of the character in return for an increasing LA (Technically it's not a standard LA, but I'll get to that in a bit).

Problem is: They failed. Well, that's my opinion at least. The bloodlines given (those on the SRD page are the same as those in the book) tend to be uninteresting, unoriginal, unflavorful, lacking fluff and generally not powerful enough for most players to seriously consider their use in a build. What's the first rule of homebrewing and creating additional material? "If you can't imagine someone not wanting to use it, it's too powerful. If you can't imagine someone wanting too use it, it's not powerful enough". I know the SRD generally lacks much of the fluff given in books, but there was almost no fluff in the book in the first place (that that was there is included on the SRD page).

So no one used them. I haven't once heard of any group that actively used bloodlines or even considered their use. This may be somewhat due to the fact that not people know what a bloodline is (The problem which I am attempting to remedy) though certainly those that have UA must know that they're out there. They're just not good enough to use.

Bloodlines had amazing potential. It fit fantastically with standard fantasy fiction stories where characters slowly develop their innate talents as they progress down their chosen path. And in UA Bloodlines simply didn't get the attention they deserved. And so they sat there, unused, in the first pages of a none-too-popular supplement book.

Well, as you may know, I'm a homebrewer. When I think of something that I'd like to see in a game and can't think of a way to do that with what's currently available, I go off and homebrew something to make it work. I often get inspiration from books. It was some time ago that I read the Percy Jackson series, which focuses on the life of a Half-Blood, a son of Poseidon. As he ages and learns skills, his heritage slowly grows and he gains new powers. "Hey, it'd be pretty neat to play a character descended from a god. They're all over the place in fiction. Seriously, look at the old Greek Mythology. I should make something for it. Hey, didn't I have a book that described bloodlines? Something about powers progressing as a character levels? That'd be perfect!" *Runs and grabs book* *Begins Homebrewing* *Makes This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192154)*

And that's how I got into the Bloodline business. As you can see, mine are a deal more powerful than those given in the original system. I've even made attempts to rewrite some of the originals and plan to do so for more. For a Major Bloodline you're giving up the HP, BAB, Saves and Class Features for your last 3 levels. That's often the best stuff. So whatever you get from the bloodline better be worth it. And that's what I've tried to do.

Since I'm just about the only one that makes bloodlines, no one had taken some of the juiciest stuff (I don't think anyone else makes them, anyways. Except for that one guy with the Drow line). So after the success of my Half Blood I made the Magyk-Touched (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197669) and later many (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11265857#post11265857), many (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204586) more (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11301242#post11301242).

What exactly is a Bloodline?

A Bloodline is a mechanical add-on to a character that represents some sort of interesting background that is neither a class nor a race. Any character with levels may have a bloodline. Bloodlines must be decided at level 1 (Unless you're having one Grafted (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11410280#post11410280) on, of course... (See feats at bottom)) and give progressive benefits at the levels listed.

There are three degrees of Bloodline: Minor, Intermediate and Major. These represent the varying strengths of the supernatural gifts passed on from whatever caused them to have their powers (Note that I don't specify that they got their powers from a parent. Though they're called "Bloodlines" they work just as well for a number of other things. Like having monster parts grafted to you when you were a baby (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11410280#post11410280)). The children of most individuals possessing a bloodline inherit the same bloodline, usually of the same level if not one down. There are of course exceptions based on the exact line (For example, the Hero-Born (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203394) bloodline often skips generations or occurs randomly). Characters with a Minor Bloodline gain a benefit at fourth level and every four levels thereafter, up to level 20. Those with Intermediate gain benefits at 2nd and every two thereafter and those with Major Bloodlines gain something every level.

"So why wouldn't I want a Major Bloodline?" you may ask. Well the answer is simple: A weird pseudo-LA that is snuck in throughout your character's progression. When a character with a Minor Bloodline would level up to level twelve, they don't. Well, they kinda do. They get a "Bloodline Level". I put this in class form below.

Bloodline

Skill points at each level: None. (Not even Int. None.)
Class Skills: None
Hit Dice: d0 (Do not add Con to health for this level. This still counts as an HD though.)

Level
BAB
Fort
Ref
Will
Special

1st

+0

+0

+0

+0
"I'm Really a Level!"

2nd

+0

+0

+0

+0
"I'm Really a Level!"

3rd

+0

+0

+0

+0
"I'm Really a Level!"

"I'm Really a Level!": Levels in Bloodline stack with levels in all other class for the purpose of determining level-dependent effects, such as the amount of damage dealt by a Paladin's Smite or the Caster Level of a Wizard's spells. As this is still a level, it counts normally towards the acquisition of feats and ability score boosts as well as maximum skill ranks.

See, it's not just an LA. It's like a Dire LA. Anywho...

Characters with a Minor Bloodline should take a level of Bloodline before or for their 12th level. Those with Intermediate Bloodlines should take Bloodline levels for or before their 6th and 12th levels. Those with Major Bloodlines should take Bloodline Levels for or before 3rd, 6th and 12th. Individuals possessing Bloodlines may opt not to take Bloodline levels before or at the appointed level, but if they choose to do so they cease obtaining features of their Bloodline and incur a 20% penalty on any XP gotten until the Bloodline Level is taken. So a 5th level Wizard with an Intermediate Bloodline leveling up would take their first Bloodline Level, causing their CL to increase, but not their spells per day. When they next leveled (to level seven) they likely would choose to take their 6th level in Wizard, resulting in them having the spells per day of a Level 6 Wizard and a CL of 7. Bloodline characters may, at their option, choose to take Bloodline levels prior to the appointed levels in order to gain the benefit of it stacking with all other class levels for purposes of level-based abilities. Can be handy in multiclassing. You shouldn't do this 1st level though. You can only take one bloodline level if you have a Minor bloodline, two if you have an Intermediate and three if you have a Major.

Under normal conditions you can only have one Bloodline at a time. But everyone knows that in D&D everything can mix with everything. So for your convenience I made this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11257934#post11257934). The only real combination not in that is One Intermediate, One Minor. Because it'd be weird.

How to make a Bloodline

"Well neat-o, Mister Welknair! I'm going to start using your amazing stuff in my game! I think I'll play a Kitten-Friend (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11436056#post11436056) next!"

"... That may not be the best idea. Especially if your DM is running a serious campaign. Anyways Jimmy, isn't there something that you should also consider?"

"Well what could that be, Mister? Playing an Akodrin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11432583#post11432583) and driving my party insane?"

"No, no, no. I'm referring of course to
HOMEBREWING.
You can make your own Bloodlines! It's not difficult at all! In fact you can do it in a few simple steps!"

Bloodlines always follow a set pattern. Which is... Skill +2, Special Ability, Ability +1, Special Ability, Affinity +2, Special Ability. Repeat as needed. It's not too difficult to come up with the Skills and Abilities for a bloodline. Just go with whatever seems thematic or most useful to the type of character you envision using the bloodline. Remember that you cannot use the same skill or ability score twice. The Affinity is a scaling bonus on interaction checks with... something. Usually it has to do with whatever the parent was (Celestial Tied gain bonuses when dealing with Angels, Dragon Descended when dealing with Dragons), though there are some exceptions. Again, go with whatever makes sense. The real meat and potatoes of the bloodline is the Special Abilities. These can be about anything. Bonus feats are easy choices, but it's much better to go with things along the lines of Class Features. Level based abilities should scale differently depending upon the magnitude of the bloodline (If you'd normally gain access to Augments as an Ozodrin of 1/2 your level when you have a Major Bloodline, it's as an Ozodrin of 1/4 your level for an Intermediate Bloodline or 1/8 for a Minor). This will likely differ depending upon how you choose to balance things. And really doesn't matter if you're not basing the bloodline off of a class, as I've done (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11425550#post11425550) a couple of times.

And so the steps are:

1. Come up with an idea. This can be just about anything. The big criteria is that is has to be something that progresses naturally as the character advances, likely without them consciously making an effort to do so.

2. Decide the Skills and Abilities and put them in order.

3. Determine what the Affinity applies to. Write fluff for the Affinity. Doesn't have to be much.

4. Make the Special Abilities. These should be powerful enough to be useful, but not to the point of overshadowing the character's class. They should be flavorful and fitting given the bloodline in question. Don't forget the fluff for each.

5. Type that baby up! The Minor and Intermediate Bloodlines are derived from the Major one. You could hypothetically make Intermediate or Minor ones, but it's much better to make Major Bloodlines and give people the option of choosing or restricting choices to the lower levels.

Here is the formatting that I use:

Level

Minor

Intermediate

Major

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

And here is the arrangement of the bonuses:

Level

Minor

Intermediate

Major

1

Skill 1 +2

2

Skill 1 +2
Special Ability 1

3

Ability Score 1 +1

4
Skill 1 +2
Special Ability 1
Special Ability 2

5

Affinity +2

6

Ability Score 1 +1
Special Ability 3

7

Skill 2 +2

8
Special Ability 1
Special Ability 2
Special Ability 4

9

Ability 2 +2

10

Affinity +2
Special Ability 5

11

Affinity +4

12
Ability 1 +1
Special Ability 3
Special Ability 6

13

Skill 3 +2

14

Skill 2 +2
Special Ability 7

15

Ability 3 +1

16
Special Ability 2
Special Ability 4
Special Ability 8

17

Affinity +6

18

Ability 2 +1
Special Ability 9

19

Skill 4 +2

20
Affinity +2
Special Ability 5
Special Ability 10

As you can see, the Minor and Intermediate lines are just the first 5 and 10 levels of the Major line. So all you really need to do is make the Major line and go through the trouble of typing out the other two.

And remember - presentation is important. Adding a nice picture and having proper formatting go a long ways towards a nice piece of homebrewing.

Ever wanted to be the descendant of Death Himself? Well sorry, I don't have a bloodline for that (yet?). Go make one.

Conclusion

I hope that this guide and explanation will be useful in enlightening people about the wonder of bloodlines. Bloodlines are a remarkably adaptable concept that can be used to illustrate all manner of character backgrounds from being Chosen by the Far Realms (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11417464#post11417464) to descended from Titans (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11285712#post11285712). These lines can be used for adding a dash of flavor to an otherwise run-of-the-mill character (Can you say Bladechild Barbarian?). They are diverse and powerful. Why not try one out on your next character?

Asides

I must reiterate: I did not come up with the idea of bloodlines. That was all Monte Cook in Unearthed Arcana. That is where the rules for this amazing system were given. I just nabbed onto an interesting concept and ran with it. AGAIN: THIS IS NOT MY WORK! This is my attempt to explain something that most people don't fully understand. The bloodlines that I've linked to, on the other hand are entirely my work. MINE.

I believe that there is an alternate interpretation of how Bloodline Levels work. Something about Replacing vs. Delaying. I don't know a terrible lot about that argument. I think my above explanation is the Delaying method. The other interpretation is likely perfectly valid. Sorry for being uneducated in this matter.

I would like to thank Bagel for this particularly wonderful explanation of the Replacement system. We're still not 100% sure if it's correct, but it seems alright.

The character is still required to take a level of bloodline within the designated time as per the original rules. After they take this level this level is included in their ECL as described in the guide. However, instead of gaining the next level after the bloodline, they will "re-level" the bloodline level they obtained. This level then replaces the bloodline level. Effectively the character must obtain enough experience to gain the level twice.

Example: Crimson the Warlock has a Red Dragon bloodline, when he gains enough experience he acquires a level of Bloodline for his 12th level. He is effectively ECL 12. He then must gain enough experience equal to the difference between level 11 and 12 to effectively gain a 12th level in Warlock that then replaces the bloodline level. When the warlock level replaces the bloodline level he is still a ECL 12 character until he gains enough experience to become level 13. He retains his bloodline abilities as is able to continue to gain new ones as per the original rules.

I am also aware that Sorcerers in PF have "Bloodlines". These and those are entirely different. Seriously. The PF Sorcerer's Bloodlines are class features, for Boccob's sake. These are independent of class. Also note the little "3.5e" in the title. Now stop mixing the two up.

There are a couple of balance options available to DMs wishing to use bloodlines (whether they be my own or those given in UA). One option is to say that all the PCs have Bloodlines and ignore the odd pseudo-LA thing. This leads to a slightly more high-powered game. Especially when using Major Bloodlines. Think "Gestalt Lite". The second option is at the opposite end of the spectrum. If you think the bloodlines are too strong you can instead choose to turn the pseudo-LA into full-blown LA. This means no HD increase, no level-based-effect increases, doesn't count towards feats and ability score boosts and doesn't increase max skill ranks. Admittedly that's not a huge penalty given what it was at before, but it's still something. A less drastic option for reducing their power is to limit the Bloodline Levels' stacking effects to a single class, thus reducing their ability to be abused by multiclassers.

Another interesting idea is that of giving creatures Bloodlines. In such a case, treat them as a character with a number of levels equal to the creature's HD. Glamerkin Displacer Beast? Titankith Ogre? Dragon Descendant Gelatinous Cube? Yeah. You can have those now.

Oh and never let your players use this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11224011#post11224011) or this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11408926#post11408926).

Additionally I'll be keeping a list here of Bloodlines I'm planning on making. (Those that I have already made are available in my extended signature).

Vampiric Bloodline
Lycanthropic Bloodline
Magitech Bloodline (I'm making them for everybody else's subsystems. Why not my own?)
A couple more joke bloodlines
Elemental Bloodlines
Giant Bloodlines
Minotaur Bloodline
Heck, I'm doing one for shadowcasting and I've done one for Truenaming. Binding Bloodline.
Fatekeeper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209461) Bloodline
Antithesis Bloodline
"Heir to the World" Bloodline
Fae Bloodline
Death Knight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195618) Bloodline
Entity (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196319) Bloodline
Either a Runescribe (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11583942#post11583942) or a Rune Demolisher (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11560846#post11560846) Bloodline
Incarnum Bloodline (Thank you Pyro)
"Animal Based Bloodline"
Evolutionist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112349) Bloodline
Eidolon Binder (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155181) Bloodline
Evolved Character and Monster (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201021) Bloodline
Spellshaper Bloodline (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=11341.0;topicseen)
Chronomancy (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=158) Bloodline
Blue Mage (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8721) Bloodline
Monstrumologist (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9573.0) Bloodline
Elf, Orc and Dwarf Bloodlines
"Mundane" Bloodline

Bold=Request

Eh, whatever. Taking requests again, but as you can see the list is quite long. I will be making things as inspiration strikes me. Give me a particularly interesting idea and I'm more likely to make it.

If you are requesting a Bloodline based on a class, there are a couple of requirements. Namely, it must be a Base Class and be centered around a unique magic system. See the Name Given (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11301242#post11301242), Blade Child (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11401331#post11401331), Emergent Atrocity (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11410280#post11410280), Quisling (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11425550#post11425550), Akodrin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11432583#post11432583), Chosen of the Far Realms (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11417464#post11417464), Kitten Friend (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11436056#post11436056), or Tinkerer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11519525#post11519525).

All Bloodlines that I've made can easily be found in my Extended Signature (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10951428&postcount=115).

Domriso

2011-07-24, 08:06 PM

This really is just made of win. Seriously. I've been eating up your bloodlines since I've seen them appearing, but it has been a while since I've looked over the exact bloodline rules, so this is just so cool. I like the way you presented it, and you explained both how the bloodlines work and how yours are different exceedingly well. This makes me want to include bloodlines in my games now, most definitely. They're just so freaking cool.

Again, great job with this.

Welknair

2011-07-24, 08:30 PM

:smallbiggrin:

I'm happy to hear that I both explained this in an understandable way and inspired someone to use Bloodlines in a game. Let me know how it goes!

eftexar

2011-07-24, 09:35 PM

This is very informative. Up until now I had no clue how bloodlines worked (and often cringed whenever I saw them).
This sort of looks like something that your DM should just tell you to add as part of rolling up your character. I would think that you could just remove the built in LAs if all of your characters have a bloodline. Then again, I'm used to very high powered campaigns (got to level 80 in one (that took a lot of house rules to make work)).

Kellus

2011-07-24, 09:59 PM

This is so excellent. I never realized how much bloodlines could add to a character before you started making them. It was one of those things I just sort of skimmed over in UA since it didn't look very interesting. Yours are fun and flavourful, and seem well-balanced. Speaking of which...

Story time! So I've got a xenoalchemist character in my RL group, and we decided to try your Blood Study feat. Net result: AWESOME. Now one of the party members (a kenku spy, basically) has the Major Glamerkin bloodline and is having tons of fun messing around with illusions to supplement his other powers. We weren't entirely sure what to dissect to give it to him, and settled on cutting open a vern illusionist working for the lamenti. Now we have a kenku who is partially made out of illusions. :smallcool:

Welknair

2011-07-24, 10:44 PM

Story time! So I've got a xenoalchemist character in my RL group, and we decided to try your Blood Study feat. Net result: AWESOME. Now one of the party members (a kenku spy, basically) has the Major Glamerkin bloodline and is having tons of fun messing around with illusions to supplement his other powers. We weren't entirely sure what to dissect to give it to him, and settled on cutting open a vern illusionist working for the lamenti. Now we have a kenku who is partially made out of illusions. :smallcool:

*Cue Squeeing*

People are using it! PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY USING IT!

*Does lap around house*

*Regains composure*

I'm glad to see that my work is playing an active role in your game.

Cipher Stars

2011-07-24, 11:07 PM

*Cue Squeeing*

People are using it! PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY USING IT!

*Does lap around house*

*Regains composure*

I'm glad to see that my work is playing an active role in your game.

Dragon Descendant bloodline works great with the Dragonfire Adept, if you ask me. Pack the Descendant's breath weapon full of metabreath stuff for a suppah blast meanwhile you still use your standard at-will breath while you wait for your ubber breath to charge. Not to mention I like the feeling that my character is much, much more in tune with dragon kind, not just in body (DFA) but in Blood and ancestry as well (Descendant)
Plus, you only get one Dark invocation though, and miss out on the Immunities. But the Descendant makes up for it with resistances and its dragon-form, free wings (even if DFA gets free wings early anyway), extra breath weapon- well, theres quite a bit that makes up for it.

Also, is it just me or should Bloodlines count as Heritage for feats? I mean, come on, Bloodlines are just more physical, tangible evidence of your heritage.

Welknair

2011-07-24, 11:25 PM

Dragon Descendant bloodline works great with the Dragonfire Adept, if you ask me. Pack the Descendant's breath weapon full of metabreath stuff for a suppah blast meanwhile you still use your standard at-will breath while you wait for your ubber breath to charge. Not to mention I like the feeling that my character is much, much more in tune with dragon kind, not just in body (DFA) but in Blood and ancestry as well (Descendant)
Plus, you only get one Dark invocation though, and miss out on the Immunities. But the Descendant makes up for it with resistances and its dragon-form, free wings (even if DFA gets free wings early anyway), extra breath weapon- well, theres quite a bit that makes up for it.

Are you actively playing said Dragon Descendant? If so, is that Radiant Dragon Lineage holding up alright?

Owrtho

2011-07-25, 12:42 AM

Well, this seems quite handy as an easy reference/intro to bloodlines. However, reading through it I noticed two minor errors you may want to correct.

"I'm Really a Level!": Levels in Bloodline stack with levels in one other class for the purpose of determining level-dependent effects, such as the amount of damage dealt by a Paladin's Smite or the Caster Level of a Wizard's spells. As this is still a level, it counts normally towards the acquisition of feats and ability score boosts as well as maximum skill ranks.
The bolded part is wrong. If you look at the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm) page, you'll see this line.

If a character has levels in two or more classes in addition to his bloodline levels, each class gains the benefit of adding the bloodline levels when calculating abilities.
Given that this part helps to make bloodlines more usedul for multiclassing, it seems somewhat important.

As for the other error, it's less important, but still worth noting.

Characters with a Minor Bloodline must take a level of Bloodline for their 12th level. Those with Intermediate Bloodlines must take Bloodline levels for their 6th and 12th levels. Those with Major Bloodlines must take Bloodline Levels for 3rd, 6th and 12th. Individuals possessing Bloodlines may opt not to take Bloodline levels when appointed but if they choose to do so they cease obtaining features of their Bloodline and incur a 20% penalty on any XP gotten until the Bloodline Level is taken.
Again, the bolded parts are wrong. If the SRD page is carefully read, you'll note that you may take bloodline levels at any level. You just need to make sure to take them before reaching the designated level if you don't want penalties. You could even take a bloodline level for level one (though that would be stupid as you'd have 0 hit points and be rather prone to death and unconciousness). Still if someone so chose, they could take all their bloodline levels early to get them out of the way, or more like, take advantage of the above mentioned multiclasing potential of them (as they certainly aren't good for much else other than keepign your bloodline when given the option of a class level).
Just figured you'd want to know.

Owrtho

Welknair

2011-07-25, 09:40 AM

Well, this seems quite handy as an easy reference/intro to bloodlines. However, reading through it I noticed two minor errors you may want to correct.

The bolded part is wrong. If you look at the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm) page, you'll see this line.

Given that this part helps to make bloodlines more usedul for multiclassing, it seems somewhat important.

As for the other error, it's less important, but still worth noting.

Again, the bolded parts are wrong. If the SRD page is carefully read, you'll note that you may take bloodline levels at any level. You just need to make sure to take them before reaching the designated level if you don't want penalties. You could even take a bloodline level for level one (though that would be stupid as you'd have 0 hit points and be rather prone to death and unconciousness). Still if someone so chose, they could take all their bloodline levels early to get them out of the way, or more like, take advantage of the above mentioned multiclasing potential of them (as they certainly aren't good for much else other than keepign your bloodline when given the option of a class level).
Just figured you'd want to know.

Owrtho

You are very much correct. I think I fixed them sufficiently, but you should still probably check. Thanks.

Owrtho

2011-07-25, 06:10 PM

Welknair

2011-07-28, 07:09 PM

Looks good, though I might add something before the what levels you should take bloodline levels by stating that may take them at any level (up to as many times as their bloodline requires, as I don't think they can take it past that).

Owrtho

Hm. That is included at the end of the blurb. Okay, I need some new people to read it to see if that paragraph makes any sort of sense.

DeAnno

2011-07-28, 10:59 PM

As this is still a level, it counts normally towards the acquisition of feats and ability score boosts as well as maximum skill ranks.

An interesting tactic for building a bloodlined character (especially starting at higher level) might be to take Bloodline levels in a clump at 2-3-4 (or 3-4, or 4), and then get enough skills with your normal level 5 to qualify for a PRC at 6 (and now have 15 HD total with which to take PRC levels instead of 14 or 13 or 12). Though from an optimizer's standpoint taking a bloodline is rarely a good decision, this little trick might make some stronger offerings more worthwhile.

Welknair

2011-07-28, 11:03 PM

An interesting tactic for building a bloodlined character (especially starting at higher level) might be to take Bloodline levels in a clump at 2-3-4 (or 3-4, or 4), and then get enough skills with your normal level 5 to qualify for a PRC at 6 (and now have 15 HD total with which to take PRC levels instead of 14 or 13 or 12). Though from an optimizer's standpoint taking a bloodline is rarely a good decision, this little trick might make some stronger offerings more worthwhile.

Yes that is a very valid tactic. And hopefully the strength of my bloodlines should make bloodlines more viable to individuals concerned with optimization.

Owrtho

2011-07-28, 11:06 PM

Hm. That is included at the end of the blurb. Okay, I need some new people to read it to see if that paragraph makes any sort of sense.

Ah, you're right. I'd not read through the entire paragraph after your change before, so hadn't noticed that part. Looks good then.

Owrtho

Welknair

2011-07-28, 11:27 PM

Ah, you're right. I'd not read through the entire paragraph after your change before, so hadn't noticed that part. Looks good then.

Owrtho

Good to hear. I also added in my added of "Blooded Beasts" - Monsters with Bloodlines. Could make for some... very interesting and random encounters.

Welknair

2011-07-31, 11:02 AM

After much contemplation, I don't think I'll be able to fulfill your requests Amechra. The classes for which you want me to make bloodlines are simply not sufficient to base them off of. By examining those bloodlines that I've made that focus around existing classes (Namegiven, Quisling, Akodrin, Chosen of the Far Realms), you'll likely notice that they have something in common - an entire supernatural system to back them up. And it is that system which I spend much of the bloodline working on. The idea is to embrace and give a taste of the system while not edging in on the territory of the actual class. But without a system like that, the only option for a class-based bloodline is to directly crib off of the class features, allowing for a direct comparison between the two ("A Major Bloodline gets you all the stuff five levels gets you, and only costs three..."). It just doesn't work out well. Out of the three, the Librarian seems like it'd be the most likely to work, but still there's only so much that I can do with Rote Erudition.

Kobold-Bard

2011-08-05, 12:34 PM

Is Dire LA another way of explaining how SRD Bloodlines work, or is it just how your bloodlines work?

Welknair

2011-08-05, 01:03 PM

Is Dire LA another way of explaining how SRD Bloodlines work, or is it just how your bloodlines work?

It's another way of explaining it. It's just another way of presenting the information in a format that hopefully is more understandable than what is said in the SRD.

Kobold-Bard

2011-08-05, 01:04 PM

It's another way of explaining it. It's just another way of presenting the information in a format that hopefully is more understandable than what is said in the SRD.

Much more, thanks.

Bagel

2011-08-05, 01:15 PM

Welknair

2011-08-05, 01:17 PM

so correct me if i am wrong an intermediate bloodline character would look like this

1 sorc 1
2 sorc 2
3 bloodline
4 sorc 3
5 sorc 4
6 bloodline
7 sorc 5
8 PRC 1 [full magic]
9 PRC 2 [full magic]
10 PRC 3 [full magic]

they would be ECL and caster 10 and have spells known as a caster 7 but their BAB and Saves would be as if they were level 7 because the bloodlines would be "holes"?

That is almost correct. That's what it would be for a Major Bloodline. An Intermediate takes their Bloodline Levels normally at 6th and 12th. Major is 3rd, 6th and 12th. But yes, that is the general idea.

Amechra

2011-08-05, 06:14 PM

It's OK, Welkneir.

Hopefully, my Aura system will be awesome enough to merit a bloodline.

Pyromancer999

2011-08-09, 08:01 PM

Looks like a good lineup. For the Binding Bloodline, I'd like to suggest the name Vessel, as Binders and probably their descendants merely serve as temporary bodies to Vestiges.

Welknair

2011-08-09, 08:10 PM

Looks like a good lineup. For the Binding Bloodline, I'd like to suggest the name Vessel, as Binders and probably their descendants merely serve as temporary bodies to Vestiges.

Sounds good. Per usual, I have absolutely no experience with Binding, so the result should be interesting.

jojolagger

2011-08-11, 03:58 PM

Right, If you know so much about bloodlines, Can you tell me why they don't have epic level progressions?

Welknair

2011-08-11, 04:17 PM

Right, If you know so much about bloodlines, Can you tell me why they don't have epic level progressions?

Because that would make sense. Since when has WotC made sense?

And it would be difficult to make progressions for many of them. Most have features that scale with level, but the features themselves don't scale for most. What would a 22nd level Major Dragon Descendant get? Then there's the matter of the skills and abilities. What would happen when you had gotten a bonus to all six abilities? Does it repeat? Also the pseudo-LA is scaled for the benefits gotten by 20th level. Getting features that are useful in epic would surely cost something beyond the current set back.

The only feature that would scale easily into epic is the Affinities.

Bagel

2011-08-11, 06:08 PM

for posterity's sake, what is the replacement method instead of the delaying method that is inherit in the original rules for bloodlines?

Merchant

2011-08-12, 01:22 AM

I have read that you are not taking any more requests so I don't have much hope for this, but at the same time I'm thinking the suggestion may strike a cord with your creativity.

Two concepts.
Luck ( base classes off the top of my head would be RoC's Fortune Seeker or Fortune Blessed, though i believe no new magic system was created)
&
Time (no base class that i can think of just a neat idea IMO)

On another note. Love your bloodlines.

And to anyone that knows is it possible to take bloodlines from the fighters bonus feats? Could you get more than 1 major bloodline? Or several mudbloods? Would it even be worth it?

Welknair

2011-08-12, 08:38 AM

And to anyone that knows is it possible to take bloodlines from the fighters bonus feats? Could you get more than 1 major bloodline? Or several mudbloods? Would it even be worth it?

There is currently no means of having more than one Major Bloodline. I have been juggling around ideas for a race or class that can, though. Problem is, to balance out the race, it'd likely need an LA.

...

And LA is the bane of Bloodlines. Well, I could always get around the LA by making a bloodline... for the race that gives bloodlines...

You see the problem.

But at the point that you're getting two bonuses a level from bloodlines, your character starts valuing their bloodlines more than their class. Hence the idea of a bloodline-focused class. Possibly with the ability to change which bloodlines are active, or something like that.

As for your requests, they have been noted. And found... interesting.

Bagel, sadly I am unable to give you a proper answer as I do not fully understand the debate myself. My guess would be it's whether the Bloodline level delays your taking of your next class level, or replaces the features that would be gained at that level. But that doesn't really make sense.. Wouldn't you just multi into something else to overwrite? Not to mention, I can find no precedence for that in the SRD or UA. If anyone else is more familiar, they can feel free to exposit their knowledge for our benefit. If and when I fully understand the two methods, I'll add the information to the main post.

Bagel

2011-08-12, 12:43 PM

after much google-ing in an attempt to discover this replacement method i had come across bupkiss.

the only iota of anything i found was a suggestion on EN worlds forum to treat them similar to LA and allow a similar "buyback" option.

now they didn't give much insight so i will use some grey matter and see if i can come up with something simple yet effective

The character is still required to take a level of bloodline within the designated time as per the original rules. After they take this level this level is included in their ECL as described in the guide. However, instead of gaining the next level after the bloodline, they will "re-level" the bloodline level they obtained. This level then replaces the bloodline level. Effectively the character must obtain enough experience to gain the level twice.

Example: Crimson the Warlock has a Red Dragon bloodline, when he gains enough experience he acquires a level of Bloodline for his 12th level. He is effectively ECL 12. He then must gain enough experience equal to the difference between level 11 and 12 to effectively gain a 12th level in Warlock that then replaces the bloodline level. When the warlock level replaces the bloodline level he is still a ECL 12 character until he gains enough experience to become level 13. He retains his bloodline abilities as is able to continue to gain new ones as per the original rules.

if this is too clunky or just worded in a manner that hard to understand let me know., the difference between this an LA buyoff is with LA buyoff you actually would drop the gained level, in this version you retain the gained level until you can replace it with the class level.

Kobold-Bard

2011-08-12, 01:05 PM

...

The character is still required to take a level of bloodline within the designated time as per the original rules. After they take this level this level is included in their ECL as described in the guide. However, instead of gaining the next level after the bloodline, they will "re-level" the bloodline level they obtained. This level then replaces the bloodline level. Effectively the character must obtain enough experience to gain the level twice.

Example: Crimson the Warlock has a Red Dragon bloodline, when he gains enough experience he acquires a level of Bloodline for his 12th level. He is effectively ECL 12. He then must gain enough experience equal to the difference between level 11 and 12 to effectively gain a 12th level in Warlock that then replaces the bloodline level. When the warlock level replaces the bloodline level he is still a ECL 12 character until he gains enough experience to become level 13. He retains his bloodline abilities as is able to continue to gain new ones as per the original rules.

...

Is that how it's actually supposed to work? Because I've never understood it until this post. If it is then you rock.

Welknair

2011-08-12, 01:23 PM

-Snip-

That's very reasonable and logical. If you don't mind, I think I'll quote that and move it into the OP as a possible explanation for replacement v delay.

Bagel

2011-08-12, 06:26 PM

Siosilvar

2011-08-12, 06:32 PM

As long as we're talking about buyoff and houserules...

Has anybody considered, instead of (or in addition to, I suppose) allowing LA buyoff, requiring a character with LA+1/2/3 to take a minor/int./major bloodline, with one of the costs nixed (that is, the LA or the required bloodline levels)?

Welknair

2011-08-13, 09:02 AM

feel free to quote include and credit accordingly,

just a note however, if creating a character starting at level 10 or similar, one could very easily use their bloodline levels at 1-2-3 then "buy" them off with exp and start at level 8 or so [didn't do the actual math :P] and continue on in their group as if nothing was different, they would bridge the experience gap just as easily as a character with an LA+1 Buyoff would, coming in behind in level but not features, this not only makes bloodlines viable for char-op, it almost makes them impossible to skip!

Included and credited. And you do realize that quotes automatically include the name of the original poster?

As long as we're talking about buyoff and houserules...

Has anybody considered, instead of (or in addition to, I suppose) allowing LA buyoff, requiring a character with LA+1/2/3 to take a minor/int./major bloodline, with one of the costs nixed (that is, the LA or the required bloodline levels)?

Hm.. That's an interesting idea. It would give LA characters something to look forward to at later levels.. But how would you explain it in-game? Well, for some it would make sense. Like an Aasimar having a Minor Celestial Tied Bloodline. But what would a Thri-Kreen get?

Amechra

2011-08-13, 11:25 AM

It might be interesting to have a 3-level Bloodline Paragon class, which grants you a bloodline based on the number of levels you take.

Bloodline Paragon
You may not be great, but your ancestry is; and the power is in the blood, as it were.

HD: d6
Skills: You do not gain any new class skills.
Skill Points: 2+Int modifier.

{table=head]BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Class Abilities|Bloodline Strength
+0|+0|+0|+0|Enhance Bloodline +1|-
+1|+0|+0|+0|Bonus Feat|Minor
+1|+1|+1|+1|Enhance Bloodline +2|Intermediate[/table]

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: You gain no new proficiencies

Enhance Bloodline: For the purpose of determining your ECL for all bloodlines, you are treated as if you were 1 level higher; at 3rd level, you are treated as if you were 2 levels higher.

Bonus Feat: At 2nd level you gain a single bonus feat; you must meet all the prerequisites for this bonus feat.
__________________________________________________
Note the lack of anything preventing you from taking this when you already have a bloodline...

Welknair

2011-08-13, 11:28 AM

It might be interesting to have a 3-level Bloodline Paragon class, which grants you a bloodline based on the number of levels you take.

-Snip-

Interesting. If you take this when you don't have a Bloodline already, what does the Enhancement do at first level?

Amechra

2011-08-13, 11:33 AM

Welknair

2011-08-13, 11:39 AM

Nothing...

Until you get a minor Bloodline at 2nd level.

It's just like how you can't actually use Lurk augments at 1st level unless you have Sneak Attack prior, in which case you still can't.

Yeah, the Lurk is facepalm-worthy.

There's a reason I never got Complete Psion..

Anywho, I approve of your Paragon. Just to clarify, the ECL boost would affect level dependent effects (Like the save DC of a Dragon Descendant's breath weapon), but not actually grant them further abilities, right?

Amechra

2011-08-13, 11:41 AM

Yes, it would only enhance level dependent effects.

Though a class that enhanced bloodlines at a 5/3 rate would be scary...

Anyway, three levels in this will give you up to three Intermediate bloodlines (Major Mudblood+Class granted Bloodline).

Welknair

2011-08-13, 11:46 AM

Anyway, three levels in this will give you up to three Intermediate bloodlines (Major Mudblood+Class granted Bloodline).

Hmm.. Now I'm stuck thinking about weird bloodline mixes again. Glamerkin/Celestial Tied/Fiendish Tied? So there was an Angel, a Demon and a Major Image and...

Amechra

2011-08-13, 12:14 PM

"A Celestial, a Fiend, and a Harrowed walked into a bar... and 9 months later, I was born."

Welknair

2011-08-13, 12:20 PM

"A Celestial, a Fiend, and a Harrowed walked into a bar... and 9 months later, I was born."

If there's any homebrew that's most conducive to really... unique backstories, it would probably be the Mudblood.

Pyromancer999

2011-08-13, 12:21 PM

"A Celestial, a Fiend, and a Harrowed walked into a bar... and 9 months later, I was born."

I knew it!

Anyways, don't know if anyone remembers my Student of the Weird (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172967), but to recap: It lets you take monster levels and get a few other things as part of a PC class. I'm interested in allowing Bloodlines to be incorporated into the class, but I'm not entirely sure how, and was wondering if anyone had ideas on how to incorporate them into the class.

Amechra

2011-08-13, 12:23 PM

Pyromancer999

2011-08-13, 12:28 PM

That's easy-Have an ACF that can only be taken 3 times; each time you take that ACF, you boost your bloodline a step:
None->Minor->Intermediate->Major.
Have them be based off CLASS level rather than ECL, and bing bang boom, you got Bloodlines as a class feature.

That sounds like a good idea, although I'm not entirely sure which class feature it would serve best as an ACF for.

TravelLog

2011-08-16, 03:48 AM

I've actually been thinking about this for a while, and what I've come up with is this:

You need a racial class. The basic premise is that the race was the victim of a plague centuries ago that continues to devastate the population. With no cure, the race has continued to survive by harvesting the bloodlines of other creatures to provide infusions and sustain them.

This had a few key benefits:
In terms of starting stats, it offers a couple possibilities. Namely 1) -2 Str, - 2 Con, +2 Int. OR 2) only stat penalties. The benefit of this second option is that it allows you more flexibility with the class since the race using it is inherently disadvantaged. It fits in terms of flavor and grants you a far greater creative scope while totally avoiding LA.

Additionally, it provides a good reason for requiring the use of bloodlines with the class and gives a perfect explanation for swapping them out.

Let me know if you're interested and I'll go into greater details about what i've come up with.

Welknair

2011-08-16, 08:46 AM

Pyromancer999

2011-08-16, 01:10 PM

TravelLog

2011-08-16, 01:21 PM

Cieyrin

2011-08-16, 01:58 PM

Something of note is Monte Cook had nothing to do with Bloodlines, that's the baby of Andy Collins, which he made for a campaign. There weren't any bloodline levels as far as I can tell, that was WotC attempting to balance them or something.

If anyone's interested, the full campaign write-up, along with supporting materials, can be found here: http://www.andycollins.net/Campaigns/Bloodlines/Bloodlines.htm

Owrtho

2011-08-16, 03:30 PM

I've never actually made a homebrew and I'm pretty new to D&D, so I haven't actually made anything for it, I've just come up with some ideas.

The central one I've got is that starting at level 1, the class is able to harvest "Bloodline Infusions" from the creatures they faced which temporarily grants them the bloodline's powers based on the character's current level. At level 7 they gain the ability to use 2 bloodline's at once (still costing a standard action to swap). At level 9 it becomes a minor action and at level 11 a free action to swap one (a minor action to swap two). At level 15 they are able to use 3 bloodlines.

At some point there, I'm not sure where, they gain the ability to use Racial Memory, which lets them use bloodlines they haven't even come into contact with (not sure what the limit I would want to impose on this is).

Still thinking about a capstone though. Anyway, I'm happy to provide ideas, and from what I've seen of your homebrew, you would do an incredible job with execution of it.

Well, from what you've written, that sounds more like a class idea than a race, particularly as races lack capstones. Still seems like it could be an interesting idea. The thing to remember though is that while bloodlines are generally balanced on the same scale, you need to be clear about if you mean minor, intermediate, or major.

All, said, I figure I'll propose a bloodline focused race going a somewhat different route.

Blooded
The blooded are the descendent of a once prosperous and diverse city that came to be afflicted by a crippling disease. While they managed to stop the spread with the help of magic, and it generally was not enough to cause death, the old, the weak, and the young often were not strong enough and provided the majority of the death toll. Still, it was thought dealt with, until they found that while magic had made the disease unable to spread normally, it still remained hereditary, and afflicted all children being born to parents who had caught it. Young as they were, almost none of the children born with the disease survived, and so the people came to realize that if they hoped to have children, they would need to be stronger than standard stock would provide. So it was that they began introducing supernatural or otherwise strong agents into their bloodline though various methods. In time their descendants came to be known as blooded, due to the varied nature of their parentage.

Pysical Description: Blooded tend to look mostly human, though details vary based upon what bloodlines they have.

Personality: Blooded have a wide range of personalities, though some are in part influenced by their bloodlines.

Relations: Depending on the bloodlines they posses, some places may treat them like others or discriminate due to their heritage. Still there are places that discriminate against all blooded due to their impure bloodlines.

Alignment: Blooded can be any alignment, though some are influenced by their bloodlines.

Blooded Lands: Outside their main city, blooded have no lands where they are dominant, though they can be found most places.

Religion: Blooded can be of any religion, though they may be influenced by their bloodline.

Abilities and racial features
Blooded have the following racial traits -2 to one physical ability score, -2 to one mental ability score. Blooded still suffer from the disease that afflicted their ancestors.
Medium Size
Humanoid: Blooded are humanoid.
Inherent Bloodline: Blooded are known for their muddled bloodlines. All blooded have at least one bloodline which counts as being one step weaker than it is for the purposes of needing to take bloodline levels (minor counts as no bloodline, intermediate counts as minor, major counts as intermediate). If the blooded has the mudblood (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11257934) bloodline, one of the component bloodlines is treated as being a step weaker (this means you may have a major bloodline as one of the component bloodlines).
Inborn Heritage: Blooded are automatically treated as having a single bloodline level for the purposes of progressing in bloodlines. This does not convey other benefits of bloodline levels.
Automatic Languages: Common. Bonus Languages: Any (not counting secret languages)
Favored class: Any or Blood King (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213822) at DMs discretion

Racial Paragon Levels
Abilities: What abilities are important varies depending on the bloodlines the individual possesses.
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d8

Class Skills
The blooded paragon's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (Any 2) (Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Survival (Wis), and any skills granted bonuses by bloodlines possessed.

Skill Points at Each Level
4 + Int modifier.
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
1st|0|0|0|2|Latent Bloodline
2nd|1|0|0|3|Bloodline Level
3rd|2|1|1|3|Latent Bloodline[/table]

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Blooded paragons gain no new weapon or armor proficiencies.

Latent Bloodline (Ex): The blood of the blooded's ancestors becomes stronger. One of the blooded's bloodlines counts as being a step weaker than it is for the purposes of bloodline levels (minor counts as no bloodline, intermediate counts as minor, major counts as intermediate). If the blooded has the mudblood (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11257934) bloodline, only one of the component bloodlines is treated as being a step weaker (this means you may have a major bloodline as one of the component bloodlines). This stacks with Inherent Bloodline and Latent Bloodline. The blooded may choose to gain another bloodline, or improve the strength of a bloodline it has, and if it does so may apply this to that one. If it has more than one bloodline that would require require bloodline levels be taken, they must be components of the mudblood (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11257934) bloodline and one of the valid strength combinations (note that as this ability is gained, it may change between having the mudblood bloodline or not as well as the combination of bloodlines making up the mudblood bloodline as required).

Bloodline Level (Ex): The second level of the blooded paragon counts as a bloodline level for the blooded.

Well, not sure if the bloodline level in the paragon is rightly needed. May also be more balanced if the Latent Bloodline was only gained twice, not quite sure. possibly gained at 1st and 3rd, while second might gain bloodline level. Thoughts?

Edit: modified blooded. The original version can be found in Welknair's quote below.

Owrtho

Amechra

2011-08-16, 06:22 PM

Welknair

2011-08-16, 08:00 PM

Hey kids! Remember this? (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050701a) I was thinking it would be cool for a Weapons of Legacy bloodline to exist. Premise: A Weapon of Legacy infuses a wielder with its power. However, sometimes some of a Weapon of Legacy's power is inherited by the child of such a wielder. It'd be pretty cool, or so I think at least.

An interesting concept indeed. I'm a bit full on requests at the moment, though and I haven't even skimmed a pdf of Weapons of Legacy. I would be interested to see what you would come up with if you attempted to make a bloodline for it.

-Snip-

Everyone's gotta start somewhere. :smallwink: You certainly seem to be having enough ideas. I'd suggest trying your hand at it. That is, if Owrtho didn't just make exactly what you wanted.

Something of note is Monte Cook had nothing to do with Bloodlines, that's the baby of Andy Collins, which he made for a campaign. There weren't any bloodline levels as far as I can tell, that was WotC attempting to balance them or something.

If anyone's interested, the full campaign write-up, along with supporting materials, can be found here: http://www.andycollins.net/Campaigns/Bloodlines/Bloodlines.htm

Very interesting. I did not know that. I may need to read through that campaign journal now. Speaking of which, do you guys think I should start a campaign journal for my game?

Well, from what you've written, that sounds more like a class idea than a race, particularly as races lack capstones. Still seems like it could be an interesting idea. The thing to remember though is that while bloodlines are generally balanced on the same scale, you need to be clear about if you mean minor, intermediate, or major.

All, said, I figure I'll propose a bloodline focused race going a somewhat different route.

Blooded
The blooded are the descendent of a once prosperous and diverse city that came to be afflicted by a crippling disease. While they managed to stop the spread with the help of magic, and it generally was not enough to cause death, the old, the weak, and the young often were not strong enough and provided the majority of the death toll. Still, it was thought dealt with, until they found that while magic had made the disease unable to spread normally, it still remained hereditary, and afflicted all children being born to parents who had caught it. Young as they were, almost none of the children born with the disease survived, and so the people came to realize that if they hoped to have children, they would need to be stronger than standard stock would provide. So it was that they began introducing supernatural or otherwise strong agents into their bloodline though various methods. In time their descendants came to be known as blooded, due to the varied nature of their parentage.

Pysical Description: Blooded tend to look mostly human, though details vary based upon what bloodlines they have.

Personality: Blooded have a wide range of personalities, though some are in part influenced by their bloodlines.

Relations: Depending on the bloodlines they posses, some places may treat them like others or discriminate due to their heritage. Still there are places that discriminate against all blooded due to their impure bloodlines.

Alignment: Blooded can be any alignment, though some are influenced by their bloodlines.

Blooded Lands: Outside their main city, blooded have no lands where they are dominant, though they can be found most places.

Religion: Blooded can be of any religion, though they may be influenced by their bloodline.

Abilities and racial features
Blooded have the following racial traits -2 to one physical ability score, -2 to one mental ability score. Blooded still suffer from the disease that afflicted their ancestors.
Medium Size
Humanoid: Blooded are humanoid.
Inherent Bloodline: Blooded are known for their muddled bloodlines. All blooded have at least one bloodline which counts as being one step weaker than it is for the purposes of needing to take bloodline levels (minor counts as no bloodline, intermediate counts as minor, major counts as intermediate). If the blooded has the mudblood (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11257934) bloodline, one of the component bloodlines is treated as being a step weaker (this means you may have a major bloodline as one of the component bloodlines).
Automatic Languages: Common. Bonus Languages: Any (not counting secret languages)
Favored class: Any

Racial Paragon Levels
Abilities: What abilities are important varies depending on the bloodlines the individual possesses.
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d8

Class Skills
The blooded paragon's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (Any 2) (Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Survival (Wis), and any skills granted bonuses by bloodlines possessed.

Skill Points at Each Level
4 + Int modifier.
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
1st|0|0|0|2|Latent Bloodline
2nd|1|0|0|3|Latent Bloodline
3rd|2|1|1|3|Latent Bloodline, Bloodline Level[/table]

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Blooded paragons gain no new weapon or armor proficiencies.

Latent Bloodline (Ex): The blood of the blooded's ancestors becomes stronger. One of the blooded's bloodlines counts as being a step weaker than it is for the purposes of bloodline levels (minor counts as no bloodline, intermediate counts as minor, major counts as intermediate). If the blooded has the mudblood (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11257934) bloodline, only one of the component bloodlines is treated as being a step weaker (this means you may have a major bloodline as one of the component bloodlines). This stacks with Inherent Bloodline and Latent Bloodline. The blooded may choose to gain another bloodline, or improve the strength of a bloodline it has, and if it does so may apply this to that one. If it has more than one bloodline that would require require bloodline levels be taken, they must be components of the mudblood (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11257934) bloodline and one of the valid strength combinations (note that as this ability is gained, it may change between having the mudblood bloodline or not as well as the combination of bloodlines making up the mudblood bloodline as required).

Bloodline Level (Ex): The third level of the blooded paragon counts as a bloodline level for the blooded.

Well, not sure if the bloodline level in the paragon is rightly needed. May also be more balanced if the Latent Bloodline was only gained twice, not quite sure. possibly gained at 1st and 3rd, while second might gain bloodline level. Thoughts?

Owrtho

That is quite impressive. I may need to link to that in the main post. Or at least somewhere.

Major Mudblood Bloodline (Intermediate Akodrin Bloodline, Minor Fragment Bloodline, Minor Chosen of the Far Realms) would, with the 4 increases from being a Blooded and Blooded Paragon would give me three Major Bloodlines.

I could go for interweaving Mudblood Bloodlines, to get 6 Intermediate bloodlines, but that might be too much.

You're evil. And that is going to be one hell of a scary dude.

Pyromancer999

2011-08-16, 08:07 PM

Mmm, the Blooded look nice; I just found out what race my "villain" will be in my upcoming campaign (He brought about the apocalypse in an attempt to become a god.)

Now, let's see...

Major Mudblood Bloodline (Intermediate Akodrin Bloodline, Minor Fragment Bloodline, Minor Chosen of the Far Realms) would, with the 4 increases from being a Blooded and Blooded Paragon would give me three Major Bloodlines.

I could go for interweaving Mudblood Bloodlines, to get 6 Intermediate bloodlines, but that might be too much.

The Paragon works different. For Mudblood Bloodlines, it only decreases one component bloodline(i.e. One Intermediate Bloodline and one Minor bloodline becomes two Minor bloodlines). Also, it would appear that if you have to take bloodline levels for multiple bloodlines, they become treated as a Mudblood bloodline of the appropriate strength, making it so that you can't have multiple Mudblood Bloodlines.

Amechra

2011-08-16, 08:16 PM

One of the Mudblood choices is two minor, one intermediate; it would actually only increase it to two Major, one Intermediate (The Intermediate would be the Fragment.)

I want to build this guy now. I need three class levels for him (I would say my three Bloodline levels would be a major addition; 4 Bloodlines (2 Major, 2 Intermediate), with all the abilities on the table up to 8th level, with all level-based effects increased by 2? In an e6 game?)

Brutal.

Xzoltar

2011-08-16, 08:24 PM

Very interesting. I did not know that. I may need to read through that campaign journal now. Speaking of which, do you guys think I should start a campaign journal for my game?

Of course you should. If I was better in english I would probably have done it already. If you decide to do it let me know this may help me with my Furture Topic about all playtesting done with GiantITP Homebrew.

Owrtho

2011-08-16, 08:54 PM

Everyone's gotta start somewhere. :smallwink: You certainly seem to be having enough ideas. I'd suggest trying your hand at it. That is, if Owrtho didn't just make exactly what you wanted.

Well, I tried to have it focus on bloodlines in a different manner than he mentioned his idea would.

That is quite impressive. I may need to link to that in the main post. Or at least somewhere.

Feel free to link or quote it. Anyway, glad it's getting a positive reception. I was somewhat worried about its balance. To a degree I still am, though somewhat differently. Given it is quite weak early on, but if one takes advantage of the paragon to get 4 minor bloodlines, 4 intermediate bloodlines, or 2 major & one intermediate bloodline (or some combination), it could be rather strong, at least in later levels. Still, at early having only a net -4 to abilities could be troublesome (though if you choose the race without a major bloodline you're doing it wrong).

Amechra

2011-08-17, 12:02 AM

Here is my, well, antagonist for my upcoming campaign:
The Ascendant (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=321815)

For a little backstory:

Remember Karsus? Mr. Try-to-Ascend-to-Godhood-but-Fail-Miserably? This guy is sorta like him.

Basically, for this campaign, "normal" forms of magic haven't existed for 197 years, due to the fact that this guy's attempt towards godhood tore magic itself to shreds, and it only managed to repair itself by resurrecting him.

He sports an 80ft move speed; that includes an 80ft flight speed, which increases to 140ft while his True Form is active, he has access to 4th level Breaches, DR 5/Byeshk, 110' Telepathy, 13 Psionic Powers of up to 3rd level, and a ton of other goodies (Thank you EdroGrimshell for your magnificent new Aberrant feats (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155474&highlight=aberrant))

All in all, look upon this horror and despair!

And this is before I decide on his items.

EdroGrimshell

2011-08-17, 12:14 AM

Thank you EdroGrimshell for your magnificent new Aberrant feats (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155474&highlight=aberrant))

You are very much welcome. Glad to see it's appreciated. And as a shameless attempt to revive it, feel free to suggest new feats i can try to create for that thread and i will try to create them.

Merchant

2011-08-17, 02:55 AM

Amechra: That is too cool. (Evil character plus bloodline paragon?

as well as kudos to Owrtho for the blooded race.

I was just reminded of a base class that has been brought back to life as well as being worked on. It's thread name was something about primiscuous or something. And it dealt with a single bloodline of various choices. It was interesting and I thought it would be pretty nice having a base class like that added to the blooded/blooded paragon.

And I was just wondering with the blooded and blooded paragon. If they were a Xenoalchemist with that feat that Welknair made. Blood Study? Could a Blooded gain even more bloodlines of some level with that?

Welknair

2011-08-17, 08:26 AM

And I was just wondering with the blooded and blooded paragon. If they were a Xenoalchemist with that feat that Welknair made. Blood Study? Could a Blooded gain even more bloodlines of some level with that?

No, I don't believe they could. I forgot to add clarification after I changed the slot to Torso, but you cannot have both an artificial and a natural bloodline existing in the same person. Unless the Xenoalchemist has Blood Alchemy, that is. That would allow them to give an individual that has a Minor or Intermediate bloodline another Minor or Intermediate. So unless the Blooded's modified bloodlines total up to a Minor or Intermediate, they can't add more via Xenoalchemy.

After some further thought, I think you're right about the Blooded needing some tweaking, Owthro. They start out with significant disadvantages, as you said, but they quickly begin making up for it, especially if they take their racial paragon. Which is just scary. With two major, one intermediate, they get 8 ability +1s. If you choose the correct bloodlines to get those bonuses in the same areas, you have quite a bit of power there. And the bloodlines become looking particularly wonderful to casters that desire the mental boosts that they find so rare in races.

When I had original thought of a race or class using my bloodlines, the idea always revolved around changing which bloodlines were active at any given time. Though you may have the blood of eight different supernatural beings, they can't all manifest at once. The character usually started with a single Major Bloodline and access to two or three bloodlines. They could then spend a quantity of time assigning which bloodline was actually active within their Major. And then you can have all sorts of fun with Mudblood, as you can actually have all three active at once. So with this system, it eliminates some of the immediate dangers of the massive numbers of bloodlines, while still keeping it usable and interesting.

Just something to think about.

Owrtho

2011-08-17, 10:08 AM

After some further thought, I think you're right about the Blooded needing some tweaking, Owthro. They start out with significant disadvantages, as you said, but they quickly begin making up for it, especially if they take their racial paragon. Which is just scary. With two major, one intermediate, they get 8 ability +1s. If you choose the correct bloodlines to get those bonuses in the same areas, you have quite a bit of power there. And the bloodlines become looking particularly wonderful to casters that desire the mental boosts that they find so rare in races.

That was my general concern. The race almost requires their paragon to not be terrible, but then if they take it, in 3 levels they practically get another class that they progress while taking levels in anything else. One thought I had was possibly giving them a 'free' bloodline level (thus allowing them to take an intermediate without needing to give anything up), then removing one of the latent bloodlines from the paragon (likely the level 2 one, and moving the bloodline level down to it's place from level 3). They would still be potentially powerful, but less so (if only slightly).

Though looking at it, doing so would allow for 2 major bloodlines and 1 minor. providing a total of +7 ability modifiers, as well as a smattering of other abilities, in exchange for -4 to abilities and 4 levels (3 paragon, 1 bloodline), which when compared to some other races with LA/HD doesn't seem that bad. Thoughts?

When I had original thought of a race or class using my bloodlines, the idea always revolved around changing which bloodlines were active at any given time. Though you may have the blood of eight different supernatural beings, they can't all manifest at once. The character usually started with a single Major Bloodline and access to two or three bloodlines. They could then spend a quantity of time assigning which bloodline was actually active within their Major. And then you can have all sorts of fun with Mudblood, as you can actually have all three active at once. So with this system, it eliminates some of the immediate dangers of the massive numbers of bloodlines, while still keeping it usable and interesting.

Well, that would actually be closer to TravelLog's idea. While I think it's a good idea that would be worth making, the idea of the blooded was for a race that would could have more than the normal bloodline strength on its own.

Still in part it can be somewhat difficult to judge bloodlines from a balance perspective at least with races. Namely as their scaling nature can make them overly weak at early levels, or overly strong at later ones (depending on what factors you give the race to try balancing it.

Owrtho

Welknair

2011-08-17, 10:24 AM

That was my general concern. The race almost requires their paragon to not be terrible, but then if they take it, in 3 levels they practically get another class that they progress while taking levels in anything else. One thought I had was possibly giving them a 'free' bloodline level (thus allowing them to take an intermediate without needing to give anything up), then removing one of the latent bloodlines from the paragon (likely the level 2 one, and moving the bloodline level down to it's place from level 3). They would still be potentially powerful, but less so (if only slightly).

Though looking at it, doing so would allow for 2 major bloodlines and 1 minor. providing a total of +7 ability modifiers, as well as a smattering of other abilities, in exchange for -4 to abilities and 4 levels (3 paragon, 1 bloodline), which when compared to some other races with LA/HD doesn't seem that bad. Thoughts?

Hm. That certainly seems a bit better. Could still be quite scary though.

Well, that would actually be closer to TravelLog's idea. While I think it's a good idea that would be worth making, the idea of the blooded was for a race that would could have more than the normal bloodline strength on its own.

Still in part it can be somewhat difficult to judge bloodlines from a balance perspective at least with races. Namely as their scaling nature can make them overly weak at early levels, or overly strong at later ones (depending on what factors you give the race to try balancing it.

Owrtho

It's the nature of the beast. And ironically, I have never seen a bloodline in play. Just as I started making these, we switched to playing my homebrew system. I've never actually used a bloodline. That certainly doesn't help with trying to balance them.

As you said, the real problem is that bloodlines give scaling benefits. So you have two options to mitigate this. 1: Static penalties you have from the get-go, causing the character to be weaker early on and more powerful later as the benefits surpass the penalties or 2: Attempt to make scaling penalties. But how in the world would you get those to work--

Oh, Boccob. Cursed Bloodlines. It's like a Bloodline, except where you would have bonuses, you have penalties. Where you would have specials, you have curses and detriments. A Cursed Bloodline would be to normal Bloodlines what Flaws are to Feats, either allowing you to get one for free or cash in for some other benefit.

...

Time to make some curses.

Owrtho

2011-08-17, 10:36 AM

Oh, Boccob. Cursed Bloodlines. It's like a Bloodline, except where you would have bonuses, you have penalties. Where you would have specials, you have curses and detriments. A Cursed Bloodline would be to normal Bloodlines what Flaws are to Feats, either allowing you to get one for free or cash in for some other benefit.

That certainly sounds like an interesting idea. I take it they could also qualify for a cursed mudblood bloodline, if someone wants to mix and match lesser curses to buy off a stronger bloodline? Well, I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

Owrtho

Welknair

2011-08-17, 10:43 AM

That certainly sounds like an interesting idea. I take it they could also qualify for a cursed mudblood bloodline, if someone wants to mix and match lesser curses to buy off a stronger bloodline? Well, I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

Owrtho

That would certainly be possible.

Though I'd need to be careful to avoid them being able to be used for min/maxing. Which I the last thing I want to encourage.

Cieyrin

2011-08-17, 12:05 PM

I just remembered something else of interest, in that the 3rd party campaign setting Midnight had something similar to bloodlines, called Heroic Paths, that are essentially Major Bloodlines without bloodline levels attached. It's somewhat balanced to the fact the setting is fairly low magic and every PC gets one. If you choose to look into it, look for the 2nd Edition, as 1st is 3.0. 2nd is expanded immensely on the material, as well as additional Heroic Paths and you can find it pretty cheap on RPG Drive-Thru, as well as other PDF sites as well, I'd imagine.

As for the bloodlines here, is there a good place to start looking though them? The bloodlines are well explained about what they are and how to use them but I seem to have missed a central page to find 'em all, unless they're in Welknair's homebrew sig...

Amechra

2011-08-17, 12:50 PM

They are in his sig.

Pyromancer999

2011-08-17, 03:43 PM

Just so people know, I made the Weapons of Legacy bloodline, as it was suggested I should, and also another for descendants of Monsters of Legacy, located here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11661982#post11661982)

EdroGrimshell

2011-08-18, 07:58 PM

I really can't wait for the Vampire Bloodline, my character in one game has a vampire theme and i hope to use it if you finish in time.

Cieyrin

2011-08-23, 06:57 PM

Having read through a bunch of the bloodlines, they are put together rather well. I was reading Titankith and True Size is a bit ambiguous on what y'mean by 'usual stat modifiers.' Y'mean the table in the MM for increasing size categories, so +16 Str, -4 Dex, +8 Con? Do you get the free Natural Armor boost, too? And this is assuming you go from Medium to Huge. What if you're Small or if you're already Huge size due to Expansion? As you can see, it's a bit messy. I'd suggest going the route of Enlarge Person, Righteous Might and Expansion and define exactly what benefits you get from True Size. Othrewise, I've quite enjoyed reading through the material. :smallsmile:

Welknair

2011-08-23, 07:15 PM

Why thank you, Cieyrin. I have made edits to True Size to hopefully remove the ambiguity. Let me know if you do not find this fix satisfactory.

Cieyrin

2011-08-23, 07:51 PM

Why thank you, Cieyrin. I have made edits to True Size to hopefully remove the ambiguity. Let me know if you do not find this fix satisfactory.

Better and far less ambiguous. The only thing is you can link directly to the size rules instead of people having to scroll. Links are here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/movementPositionAndDistance.htm#bigandLittleCreatu resInCombat and here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#sizeIncreases

Welknair

2011-08-23, 08:22 PM

Better and far less ambiguous. The only thing is you can link directly to the size rules instead of people having to scroll. Links are here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/movementPositionAndDistance.htm#bigandLittleCreatu resInCombat and here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#sizeIncreases

Changes made. After thinking about the "two size categories larger" thing, it makes me wonder. What would happen if you had a Halfling Titankith? I think that would be an amazing character concept.

jojolagger

2011-08-23, 08:24 PM

Cieyrin

2011-08-23, 08:29 PM

Changes made. After thinking about the "two size categories larger" thing, it makes me wonder. What would happen if you had a Halfling Titankith? I think that would be an amazing character concept.

Redcaps are small fey from MM3 that have Powerful Build. Works well for them, so I don't think it should be any problem for Halflings.

Pyromancer999

2011-08-23, 10:13 PM

Changes made. After thinking about the "two size categories larger" thing, it makes me wonder. What would happen if you had a Halfling Titankith? I think that would be an amazing character concept.

Tordek and Regdar suddenly stopped, halting the party's progress in the corridor.

"What was that about?" asked Mialee.

"I heard something far off in the distance, like a shriek of a child" replied Regdar.

"Or the battle cry of a gnat.", chimed in Tordek.

The only thing the party saw before it was wiped out was a gigantic hammer with a tiny pair of feet poking out under it.

It'd be sort of like that.

Cieyrin

2011-08-23, 11:18 PM

Tordek and Regdar suddenly stopped, halting the party's progress in the corridor.

"What was that about?" asked Mialee.

"I heard something far off in the distance, like a shriek of a child" replied Regdar.

"Or the battle cry of a gnat.", chimed in Tordek.

The only thing the party saw before it was wiped out was a gigantic hammer with a tiny pair of feet poking out under it.

It'd be sort of like that.

I vaguely recall a Pixie Barbarian in Neverwinter Nights at some point with a Medium Battle Axe. Amusing, he was. Same image. :smallbiggrin:

Amechra

2011-09-03, 12:25 AM

I have another bloodline-using base class for you all to peruse:

The Gestaltwandler (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213996).

Essentially, it is Shapechange Druid+Bloodlines+Favored Enemyish ability vs. your bloodline affinities.

Yay, bonus to damage against anyone on Valentine's Day at dusk whose Truenames are known to the attacker!

Merchant

2011-09-06, 04:58 AM

Welknair

2011-09-06, 07:49 PM

I remembered a little while back ago that there was a class called the foregoer. It had a family tie kind of feel to it. It was a mongrel folk prestige class.Mongrel folk seem like a good race that could have a high chance of bloodlines.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10312347&postcount=1

How would that ability come into play. Simply added ones bloodline to ones own?

Sorry if it seems like i'm competing homebrew vs another. Sometimes they aren't compatible. I'm just wondering.

Currently, as written, there would be no connection between the Foregoer and my Bloodlines. You'd simply be a Foregoer that has a bloodline. However, if I were the DM I'd allow you to select Bloodlines for Racial Traits, and instead of selecting a single racial trait, you gain the first Special Ability. Second time taking it, you gain the second Special, the third you get the Affinity, and a +1 to the first Ability that the bloodline gives a bonus to.

Not a perfect fix, but it'd work.

Edit: And don't forget to check out the new Blood King (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213822) base class!

Pyromancer999

2011-09-06, 08:26 PM

The Blood King class is pretty good. Gives access to pretty much Five+ Major Bloodlines at 20th. Everyone should check it out.

Also, one person I know was looking at your bloodlines, and suggested that players should be able to give up feat slots(such as those available through normal gain(1,3,6,9, etc.) instead of class levels if they want. What do you think of this? Would it work, and if so, how many feat slots do you think would be equivalent to a bloodline level?

Amechra

2011-09-06, 09:33 PM

Feat slots from levels? Have them lose the ones at 3rd, 6th, and 12th; feats are actually more valuable than levels, just due to relative scarcity (you have 20 levels, but only ~7 feats from levels.)

Maybe make them incapable of gaining feats on those levels; this would include Bonus Feats from anything but their bloodline...

flabort

2011-09-06, 10:06 PM

Mind if I park this here? Feel free to pick it apart, discard it, and/or ignore it, or alternatively praise it or actually use it in a game.

This is my interpretation of a Race that grants two major bloodlines (which may potentially be Mudblood).
It sucks for casters, but that's not the point.

Dire Mudblood
A Dire Mudblood does not come from any race in particular. Rather, they are a complete mixture of races, and magical beings. The extremely mixed up combination of several potentially arcane ancestries and bloodlines results in a rare mutation, a horrible creature that should never have been.

Racial Features:
Monstrous Humanoid
+2 Con, +2 Str, -4 Cha (minimum 1), -4 Int (minimum 3), -2 Wis (minimum 1)
Large Size: -1 to armor class, -1 on attack rolls, -4 to hide, +4 to grapple, lifting and carrying limits double those of a medium character
Space/Reach: 10 feet/10 feet
A Dire Mudblood's base land speed is 20 feet
Racial Hit die: A Dire Mudblood begins with 8 levels of monstrous humanoid, which provide 8d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +8, and Base Saving Throw bonuses Fort +2, Ref +6, and Will +6.
Racial Skills: A Dire Mudblood's monstrous humanoid levels give it 11 x (2+Int mod, minimum 1) skill points. Its class skills are Intimidate, Jump, Listen, Search, and Spot.
Special Qualities: Fast healing 2, Double Major Bloodline
Automatic Languages: Common
Bonus languages: Any, excepting secret languages like Druidic
Favored Class: Fighter

Double Major Bloodline: The Dire Mudblood may take two major bloodlines at once. He gains the abilities and bonuses of both bloodlines each level, although if they gain bonuses to the same skills or abilities they do not stack. The Dire Mudblood is treated as if he had already taken two Bloodline Levels for each bloodline for purposes of when he stops gaining abilities from them, although he does not obtain any additional bonuses or effective character level from this. He must still take another bloodline level for each major bloodline before or at 12th level, or suffer the usual penalties. Taking only one bloodline level before 12th level negates the penalties for one bloodline, but not the other.
The Mudblood (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11257934#post11257934) bloodline is the most frequent bloodline to show through, due to it's extremely mixed origins.

Yeah, it's a bit weird. 8 HD, net -6 to ability scores, and whatnot.

Welknair

2011-09-06, 11:27 PM

Also, one person I know was looking at your bloodlines, and suggested that players should be able to give up feat slots(such as those available through normal gain(1,3,6,9, etc.) instead of class levels if they want. What do you think of this? Would it work, and if so, how many feat slots do you think would be equivalent to a bloodline level?

Feat slots from levels? Have them lose the ones at 3rd, 6th, and 12th; feats are actually more valuable than levels, just due to relative scarcity (you have 20 levels, but only ~7 feats from levels.)

Maybe make them incapable of gaining feats on those levels; this would include Bonus Feats from anything but their bloodline...

Well many Bloodlines give bonus feats, the most notable example being the Inherent which I recently made for your feat chains, Pyromancer. And that gives one every other level at Major.. So giving up feats.. Hm. I don't think three feats are proper recompense for a Major.. All natural feats for Intermediate seems like it'd be a bit harsh. Bloodlines really were made with level-loss in mind. Changing to feats is going to be a tad odd. Perhaps each feat spent on the bloodline would---

Dormant Blood
You have called forth the power of a bloodline within you that once lay dormant
Benefit: You are treated as if you had a Major Bloodline and were a character of second level for purpose of determining which abilities you gain from said bloodline and the power of those abilities.
Special: This feat may be taken more than once. Each time you may choose to either select a new Bloodline, or be treated as if you were two levels higher in a Bloodline you have already selected. You may not select a Bloodline which you already possess as a Natural Bloodline. If you have Bloodline Points to allocate, you are treated as if you had two points currently allocated to any bloodline you selected, plus an additional two for each additional time you selected that bloodline. These points may not be Shifted, though they do count towards the limit on how many may be allocated. Inherent is not a valid choice for this feat.

Mind if I park this here? Feel free to pick it apart, discard it, and/or ignore it, or alternatively praise it or actually use it in a game.

This is my interpretation of a Race that grants two major bloodlines (which may potentially be Mudblood).
It sucks for casters, but that's not the point.

Dire Mudblood
A Dire Mudblood does not come from any race in particular. Rather, they are a complete mixture of races, and magical beings. The extremely mixed up combination of several potentially arcane ancestries and bloodlines results in a rare mutation, a horrible creature that should never have been.

Racial Features:
Monstrous Humanoid
+2 Con, +2 Str, -4 Cha (minimum 1), -4 Int (minimum 3), -2 Wis (minimum 1)
Large Size: -1 to armor class, -1 on attack rolls, -4 to hide, +4 to grapple, lifting and carrying limits double those of a medium character
Space/Reach: 10 feet/10 feet
A Dire Mudblood's base land speed is 20 feet
Racial Hit die: A Dire Mudblood begins with 8 levels of monstrous humanoid, which provide 8d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +8, and Base Saving Throw bonuses Fort +2, Ref +6, and Will +6.
Racial Skills: A Dire Mudblood's monstrous humanoid levels give it 11 x (2+Int mod, minimum 1) skill points. Its class skills are Intimidate, Jump, Listen, Search, and Spot.
Special Qualities: Fast healing 2, Double Major Bloodline
Automatic Languages: Common
Bonus languages: Any, excepting secret languages like Druidic
Favored Class: Fighter

Double Major Bloodline: The Dire Mudblood may take two major bloodlines at once. He gains the abilities and bonuses of both bloodlines each level, although if they gain bonuses to the same skills or abilities they do not stack. The Dire Mudblood is treated as if he had already taken two Bloodline Levels for each bloodline for purposes of when he stops gaining abilities from them, although he does not obtain any additional bonuses or effective character level from this. He must still take another bloodline level for each major bloodline before or at 12th level, or suffer the usual penalties. Taking only one bloodline level before 12th level negates the penalties for one bloodline, but not the other.
The Mudblood (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11257934#post11257934) bloodline is the most frequent bloodline to show through, due to it's extremely mixed origins.

Yeah, it's a bit weird. 8 HD, net -6 to ability scores, and whatnot.

Major Titankith/Dragon Descendant Barbarian. Time to kick some butt.

flabort

2011-09-07, 09:25 AM

Major Titankith/Dragon Descendant Barbarian. Time to kick some butt.

Both gain bonuses to strength, con, and wis. They gain the same values of bonuses.

..., although if they gain bonuses to the same skills or abilities they do not stack.
So if one gained a higher strength than the other, and one a higher Con....
OK, so the special abilities make it still worth it. :smalltongue:
Yeah, I just threw the race together in a couple of seconds. I was thinking I should have bumped it up to 10 HD... But no. You still want to get 2 class levels in before taking the two bloodline levels, so that you still gain some sort of bonus from them other than "You Don't get a penalty".

...Wait, Does that mean you like it, or you don't? :smallconfused:

Edit: you inspired me. I read the Glamerkin bloodline, I'm going to create a bloodline of my own (Damn those lonely wizards!). :smallwink:

Pyromancer999

2011-09-07, 09:55 AM

Well many Bloodlines give bonus feats, the most notable example being the Inherent which I recently made for your feat chains, Pyromancer. And that gives one every other level at Major.. So giving up feats.. Hm. I don't think three feats are proper recompense for a Major.. All natural feats for Intermediate seems like it'd be a bit harsh. Bloodlines really were made with level-loss in mind. Changing to feats is going to be a tad odd. Perhaps each feat spent on the bloodline would---

Dormant Blood
You have called forth the power of a bloodline within you that once lay dormant
Benefit: You are treated as if you had a Major Bloodline and were a character of second level for purpose of determining which abilities you gain from said bloodline and the power of those abilities.
Special: This feat may be taken more than once. Each time you may choose to either select a new Bloodline, or be treated as if you were two levels higher in a Bloodline you have already selected. You may not select a Bloodline which you already possess as a Natural Bloodline. If you have Bloodline Points to allocate, you are treated as if you had two points currently allocated to any bloodline you selected, plus an additional two for each additional time you selected that bloodline. These points may not be Shifted, though they do count towards the limit on how many may be allocated.

Looks pretty interesting actually. Also, I was looking at Monster Classes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182724), an old project on these forums, thinking of making a bloodline or two of my own based on the abilities there, when I sort of got a spark of an idea: a generic bloodline that lets you gain abilities from monster classes. I'm not sure if it would work or not, but I'm interested in your opinion of this idea.

flabort

2011-09-07, 11:03 AM

here's that bloodline (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214513). I fear it may be too strong...

EdroGrimshell

2011-09-07, 07:12 PM

I just noticed you do not have bloodlines for some existing systems like psionics, incarnum, and pact magic.

I'd also like to see a bloodline for these (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155181) things (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201021) if possible.

Welknair

2011-09-08, 12:10 AM

Both gain bonuses to strength, con, and wis. They gain the same values of bonuses.

So if one gained a higher strength than the other, and one a higher Con....
OK, so the special abilities make it still worth it. :smalltongue:
Yeah, I just threw the race together in a couple of seconds. I was thinking I should have bumped it up to 10 HD... But no. You still want to get 2 class levels in before taking the two bloodline levels, so that you still gain some sort of bonus from them other than "You Don't get a penalty".

...Wait, Does that mean you like it, or you don't? :smallconfused:

Edit: you inspired me. I read the Glamerkin bloodline, I'm going to create a bloodline of my own (Damn those lonely wizards!). :smallwink:

Sorry, that's what I get for not reading through thoroughly. I like it. And will read through that bloodline when I have time.

Looks pretty interesting actually. Also, I was looking at Monster Classes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182724), an old project on these forums, thinking of making a bloodline or two of my own based on the abilities there, when I sort of got a spark of an idea: a generic bloodline that lets you gain abilities from monster classes. I'm not sure if it would work or not, but I'm interested in your opinion of this idea.

Hm, an interesting concept. I never spent much time looking at Monster Classes, but I do think that's it's doable.

I just noticed you do not have bloodlines for some existing systems like psionics, incarnum, and pact magic.

I'd also like to see a bloodline for these (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155181) things (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201021) if possible.

You may notice that I have a "Binding bloodline" on my to-do list. I was never a big fan of Incarnum, though I suppose I really oughta to make one. And Eidolons do seem a significant enough system to have a bloodlines based off of them.

Oh, and I finished the Elemental Bloodlines today, as well as a Bloodline based on the Blood King. Yo dawg. :smalltongue: I'll post them when I have the time.

Amechra

2011-09-08, 01:07 AM

Please tell me that the Blood King Blood Line is a valid choice for Morphic Bloodline...

Pyromancer999

2011-09-08, 11:54 AM

You may notice that I have a "Binding bloodline" on my to-do list. I was never a big fan of Incarnum, though I suppose I really oughta to make one. And Eidolons do seem a significant enough system to have a bloodlines based off of them.

I don't know why, but I really want to do the Incarnum one at least. Mind if I take that one?

Oh, and I finished the Elemental Bloodlines today, as well as a Bloodline based on the Blood King. Yo dawg. :smalltongue: I'll post them when I have the time.

....It's like a Bloodline-themed Christmas.

Amechra

2011-09-08, 12:52 PM

Do it; that is an ORDER!

Welknair

2011-09-08, 05:22 PM

Please tell me that the Blood King Blood Line is a valid choice for Morphic Bloodline...

Naturally. Though I did have to state that you can't use the Blood King Bloodline to put points into the Blood King Bloodline. Though at later levels it doesn't pan out, as it gives fewer points than it would take. The problem is the first points are awarded at second level, and that's two points. So you could put the two points into the Blood King Bloodline, to get another two points, to put into-- The end result is you learn all languages (Speak Language +2 at first).

I don't know why, but I really want to do the Incarnum one at least. Mind if I take that one?

Feel free. :smallsmile:

Pyromancer999

2011-09-08, 05:39 PM

Feel free. :smallsmile:

Excellent. I'll have it up in a few hours.

Welknair

2011-09-08, 05:54 PM

Excellent. I'll have it up in a few hours.

Nice.

Two things:

1. I'm considering making another Bloodine thread called Tome of Blood that would include links to all Bloodline works, both mine and those of others. And this would include not just bloodlines but also base classes, races, paragon classes and anything else bloodline-related that has been made. I also have come up with some basic rules for how bloodlines interact with one another, allowing for more detailed family trees. I made a "Filler Minor" that allows for Mudbloods like Intermediate/Minor. I doubt the rules for family trees would come up in play, but I was bored and think I should post it somewhere.

2. For my Blood King, I have decided that I'll be having a scaling Class Feature for each each Bloodline. I currently have features written up for every bloodline that I've created except for the Inherent, Blood Chameleon and Brother of the Elements. I will not be making features for the bloodlines created by others, but instead leave it up to them to make said features if they choose to. Hopefully I'll have the Gifts that I've created up soon so you can see what I've already gotten. (They'll likely need a bit of PEACHing as well).

Pyromancer999

2011-09-08, 06:37 PM

Nice.

Two things:

1. I'm considering making another Bloodine thread called Tome of Blood that would include links to all Bloodline works, both mine and those of others. And this would include not just bloodlines but also base classes, races, paragon classes and anything else bloodline-related that has been made. I also have come up with some basic rules for how bloodlines interact with one another, allowing for more detailed family trees. I made a "Filler Minor" that allows for Mudbloods like Intermediate/Minor. I doubt the rules for family trees would come up in play, but I was bored and think I should post it somewhere.

2. For my Blood King, I have decided that I'll be having a scaling Class Feature for each each Bloodline. I currently have features written up for every bloodline that I've created except for the Inherent, Blood Chameleon and Brother of the Elements. I will not be making features for the bloodlines created by others, but instead leave it up to them to make said features if they choose to. Hopefully I'll have the Gifts that I've created up soon so you can see what I've already gotten. (They'll likely need a bit of PEACHing as well).

Sounds good. Also, here's the Incarnum Bloodline (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11809384#post11809384).

flabort

2011-09-11, 07:39 PM

Welknair

2011-09-11, 07:40 PM

I can't find the Bloodking Bloodline. I can find the Bloodking Class alright, but I can't find the Bloodline.
It doesn't seem to be in your extended sig, but I recall you announcing it's completion. :smallconfused: But now I can't find the announcement, either.

I have it right in front of me. On paper. I haven't gotten around to posting it yet. Though I have just finished posting a bunch of the Blood King's Blood Gifts that require PEACHing. Blood Chameleon line hopefully later today or sometime tomorrow. Darn life.

Pyromancer999

2011-09-11, 08:50 PM

I have it right in front of me. On paper. I haven't gotten around to posting it yet. Though I have just finished posting a bunch of the Blood King's Blood Gifts that require PEACHing. Blood Chameleon line hopefully later today or sometime tomorrow. Darn life.

Wait a second, you plan out your stuff on paper?

Welknair

2011-09-11, 09:09 PM

Wait a second, you plan out your stuff on paper?

Yup. Oh look, here's the paper for the Mage Commander (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201872). And on the back of it is the Late Mage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11137598#post11137598) (not one of my better ones). After a bit of digging I found the one that has the Kitten-Friend (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11432583#post11432583) and Akodrin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11432583#post11432583) on it. And those are just the ones on my computer desk that I found after 30 seconds of rummaging. You know how I've said that I've posted about 1/5th of my Magitech stuff? I have a binder full of the rest of it. And countless more strewn about my abode.

I come up with my best stuff when I'm supposed to be doing something else, which usually means I don't have a computer readily available. So I write. A lot.

EdroGrimshell

2011-09-11, 09:48 PM

...Late Mage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11137598#post11137598) (not one of my better ones)...

I'd like to contest that, it just needed a reworking.

And i have something similar only it's when i'm talking to someone that my ideas start to take on a mind of their own. Which is one of the reasons i actually have very little homebrew yet what i do have is generally considered good work.

Pyromancer999

2011-09-11, 09:52 PM

Yup. Oh look, here's the paper for the Mage Commander (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201872). And on the back of it is the Late Mage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11137598#post11137598) (not one of my better ones). After a bit of digging I found the one that has the Kitten-Friend (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11432583#post11432583) and Akodrin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11432583#post11432583) on it. And those are just the ones on my computer desk that I found after 30 seconds of rummaging. You know how I've said that I've posted about 1/5th of my Magitech stuff? I have a binder full of the rest of it. And countless more strewn about my abode.

I come up with my best stuff when I'm supposed to be doing something else, which usually means I don't have a computer readily available. So I write. A lot.

Ah, I see. Usually I just stat stuff out in my head if I don't have paper and save it for later, then wait for inspiration to strike. Sort of like a Factotum...Oh, goodness, I just made a D&D joke.

Pyromancer999

2011-09-11, 10:01 PM

flabort

2011-09-11, 10:07 PM

I usually write stuff on the Notepad program, putting in tags as if I were to post it somewhere here, even if I have 0 intention of ever doing so. :smallsmile:
I do my "Best" writing when browsing these forums already, and often have several tabs of the SRD open at a time (not to mention several more of the Playground) while I'm writing. Yet, I rarely post anything I write, usually saving it and ignoring it for all of eternity. When I make feats, I feel I can never post them until I have a certain number. I've only reached that number in a single document once, and because I tend to make feats in themed batches, I feel it's "blasphemy" to post feats from multiple documents at once. And I never complete a class to the point of playground readyness. Or if I do, it's rare.

But because I write stuff in sporadic spurts, I can empathize with your writing on paper, when you should be doing something else. my work is scattered across three or four computers, and a thumb drive. Finding anything specific is a LOT of work.

By the way, inspiration struck again. I'm making a Paragon class for the Dire Mudblood, and maybe a few feats for it once I'm done with that. :smallbiggrin: I think the best use of an inspiration boost ever could be Craft (Homebrew), too, so I wish I had a few factotum levels as well.
You, Welknair, probably have put a lot of points into that skill, and I'd guess you'd taken a skill trick that allows you to specialize further into these bloodlines. Whether or not you 'brew in spurts like some of us. :smallbiggrin: :smalltongue:

Welknair

2011-09-11, 10:14 PM

Ah, I see. Usually I just stat stuff out in my head if I don't have paper and save it for later, then wait for inspiration to strike. Sort of like a Factotum...Oh, goodness, I just made a D&D joke.

...Given the location, I think it's appropriate. I make D&D jokes all the time with company that doesn't understand them at all. And then everyone just ends up thinking I'm crazy.

If I don't have paper on me, I try to keep my ideas at the front of my thoughts, but I can only juggle three or four such ideas around at a time. I've never tried holding whole stat sets in my mind before, though I could probably do it.

Also what I like about paper and pencil is that it's so easy to see what you have and what you're missing. You can rearrange things however you like and such. I usually draft a list of features (specials, class features, what have you) with descriptive names that I'm considering using in the class/PrC/bloodline and make sure that I have at least a vague concept of what I want it to do mechanically. Then I keep coming up with these until I have enough to fill the needed slots. After that I go about arranging them and finally statting them out. And then there's the type-up last.

And that's my usual creative process, not including my actual inspiration, which can often be quite random. "You know, characters keep saying 'I was born ready", but none of them have mechanics to back that up. What if I made a Bloodline that had a special that caused the newborn to be born with a Readied Action? It'd give bonuses to Initiative and.." Yeah...

I'm actually planning on making that one.

Edit: I seemed to have both Swordsage'd and been swordsage'd. Look forward to seeing that Paragon, Flabort. And I probably have max ranks in Craft (Homebrew) as well as Skill Focus in it. It's not so much that I am better at making Bloodlines than anything as it is that it's a niche that hadn't been filled. If you make something unique (Or revamp something unique that hasn't already been revamped a hundred times (I'm talking to you, Paladin and Monk Fixes)) you'll get a lot more acclaim than if you go off and make "Another PrC". Though I may have a couple of Meta Brew feats, like Quicken Brew and Chain Brew (Bloodlines are totally a Chained Brew).

...

Now I really want to stat out a bunch of joke skills, feats, and skill tricks, potentially with a Base Class for Homebrewers.

Amechra

2011-09-11, 10:14 PM

I'm kinda like Pyromancer... only I'm more like a Bard with Bardic Knack and that spell that grants a floating bonus to skills...

Welknair

2011-09-11, 10:37 PM

And i have something similar only it's when i'm talking to someone that my ideas start to take on a mind of their own. Which is one of the reasons i actually have very little homebrew yet what i do have is generally considered good work.

My, I was double swordsage'd. And I don't think I've actually seen any of your work - you really oughta get an Extended Signature if you have more than three or so things posted. I'd be interested to take a look at what you've made.

Pyromancer999

2011-09-11, 10:39 PM

...Given the location, I think it's appropriate. I make D&D jokes all the time with company that doesn't understand them at all. And then everyone just ends up thinking I'm crazy.

If I don't have paper on me, I try to keep my ideas at the front of my thoughts, but I can only juggle three or four such ideas around at a time. I've never tried holding whole stat sets in my mind before, though I could probably do it.

Also what I like about paper and pencil is that it's so easy to see what you have and what you're missing. You can rearrange things however you like and such. I usually draft a list of features (specials, class features, what have you) with descriptive names that I'm considering using in the class/PrC/bloodline and make sure that I have at least a vague concept of what I want it to do mechanically. Then I keep coming up with these until I have enough to fill the needed slots. After that I go about arranging them and finally statting them out. And then there's the type-up last.

And that's my usual creative process, not including my actual inspiration, which can often be quite random. "You know, characters keep saying 'I was born ready", but none of them have mechanics to back that up. What if I made a Bloodline that had a special that caused the newborn to be born with a Readied Action? It'd give bonuses to Initiative and.." Yeah...

So it'd sort of be like a bloodline based around Reflex and quickness? Cool.

Edit: I seemed to have both Swordsage'd and been swordsage'd. Look forward to seeing that Paragon, Flabort. And I probably have max ranks in Craft (Homebrew) as well as Skill Focus in it. It's not so much that I am better at making Bloodlines than anything as it is that it's a niche that hadn't been filled. If you make something unique (Or revamp something unique that hasn't already been revamped a hundred times (I'm talking to you, Paladin and Monk Fixes)) you'll get a lot more acclaim than if you go off and make "Another PrC". Though I may have a couple of Meta Brew feats, like Quicken Brew and Chain Brew (Bloodlines are totally a Chained Brew).

Interesting.

Now I really want to stat out a bunch of joke skills, feats, and skill tricks, potentially with a Base Class for Homebrewers.

My domain. I was planning on making a few generic homebrewer feats, then a feat or two for every prominent homebrewer on these forums, with nominations for homebrewers for feats allowed. I plan to do this after the Fey and Celestial Heritage chains I have planned, in addition to the Familiar PC class.

Welknair

2011-09-11, 10:48 PM

My domain. I was planning on making a few generic homebrewer feats, then a feat or two for every prominent homebrewer on these forums, with nominations for homebrewers for feats allowed. I plan to do this after the Fey and Celestial Heritage chains I have planned, in addition to the Familiar PC class.

Heh, perhaps I could help you then, as it sounds like it'd be quite a lot of fun. Homebrewer Bloodline :smallbiggrin:. I personally like the idea of "Meta Brew" feats, as there's just so many possibilities for them.

Would these feats have mechanic effects attached, or be purely for joke value?

Edit: And did you see that I was quoted (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11820071&postcount=3)? And not like, "funny quip" quoted. How crazy is that?

Amechra

2011-09-11, 11:03 PM

May I have a feat based off of me, please?

It would have a TON to do with procrastination and not completing projects, or something like that...

flabort

2011-09-11, 11:09 PM

Nice. It must feel like a compliment to be quoted in that way. I certainty am glad, even feel a bit of pride (although I have no idea where it's coming from), to congratulate you on that.

I think I've got the Paragon class mostly done. It seems a bit strong (Not the "Nobody wouldn't take it" strong, the "Nobody who's playing that race wouldn't take it" strong. It doesn't make the race broken, but it's certainty a big boost for three levels), but if I decrease the BaB and one save, it should be balanced. Done that.

Now I need some racial Feats. Only three. Once I make those, I'll post it. (Pyromancer, I know feats are your specialty, so I expect you to peach them first. :smalltongue: Don't have to, but if you want to)

TravelLog

2011-09-11, 11:10 PM

Hey Welknair, I came across these recently and thought you might like them, possibly to base a bloodline on them.

The Spellshapers (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=11341.0;topicseen)
Chronomancy (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=158)
The Blue Mage (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8721)
The Monstrumologist (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9573.0)

Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing your new class features for the Blood King!

Amechra

2011-09-11, 11:12 PM

Spellshaper is easy; it would just be modifying Bladechild slightly.

Chronomancy might be harder.

Pyromancer999

2011-09-11, 11:13 PM

Heh, perhaps I could help you then, as it sounds like it'd be quite a lot of fun. Homebrewer Bloodline :smallbiggrin:. I personally like the idea of "Meta Brew" feats, as there's just so many possibilities for them.

A Homebrewer Bloodline would be good, although slightly odd when you think about it ("Oh, hey, want your character to effectively be Pyromancer's baby?" "....Sure"). Not entirely sure what you mean by MetaBrew feats, though.

Would these feats have mechanic effects attached, or be purely for joke value?

These feats shall follow the same guidline as my [Holiday] feats: Funny, but Functional. Or maybe Awesome and Functional. Regardless, mechanic effects shall be tied to said feats.

Edit: And did you see that I was quoted (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11820071&postcount=3)? And not like, "funny quip" quoted. How crazy is that?

That's cool.

May I have a feat based off of me, please?

It would have a TON to do with procrastination and not completing projects, or something like that...

Sure. Was planning on one or two for you anyways. Actually, procrastination would apply to most homebrewers, so that'd be a more general Homebrewer feat. Most feats will be based off of individuals' homebrews.

Now I need some racial Feats. Only three. Once I make those, I'll post it. (Pyromancer, I know feats are your specialty, so I expect you to peach them first. :smalltongue: Don't have to, but if you want to)

I'll take a look, so long as I'm notified as to where and when they're posted.

Amechra

2011-09-11, 11:24 PM

Oh my god, you were going to do one for me anyway?

That's the best homebrew related news I've had since I saw that I'm listed as a collaborator for the Spellshaping project (I gave some feedback).

Welknair

2011-09-11, 11:29 PM

A Homebrewer Bloodline would be good, although slightly odd when you think about it ("Oh, hey, want your character to effectively be Pyromancer's baby?" "....Sure"). Not entirely sure what you mean by MetaBrew feats, though.

Quicken Homebrew, Enlarge Homebrew, Extend Homebrew.. In the context they make a kind of sense. Not sure what mechanic effect they'd have, though.

And now I'm imagining a tribe of my descendants in a standard D&D world. I don't think they'd last very long.

It'd much more likely be like the Tinkerer with a "Knack" that they're born with.

And I really oughta update my to-do list.

flabort

2011-09-11, 11:33 PM

Welknair

2011-09-11, 11:38 PM

And boom.
Feats complete, race posted.
Dire Mudblood, Paragon and Feats (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11830031#post11830031).
I believe one feat stole from the bloodking, so if you want me to change it...

Neato. I'll take a more thorough look when I have the time.

And I'm totally fine with you using that. In general, if you are making bloodline-based homebrew, feel free to reference or utilize any of my other bloodline-homebrew. And I should hopefully be posting the rest of those Gifts soon.

Edit:

A Homebrewer Bloodline would be good, although slightly odd when you think about it ("Oh, hey, want your character to effectively be Pyromancer's baby?" "....Sure").

... Oh Boccob. Mudblood.

EdroGrimshell

2011-09-12, 02:45 AM

My, I was double swordsage'd. And I don't think I've actually seen any of your work - you really oughta get an Extended Signature if you have more than three or so things posted. I'd be interested to take a look at what you've made.

Check my sig now :smalltongue:

Merchant

2011-09-21, 04:57 AM

I'm not sure if there has been much talk about the Vampiric bloodline but when I think about the idea of blood drain I think that the Blood King with a Vampiric Bloodline Drain 'gift'. Temporarily gain a bloodline that doesn't count against your bloodline limit, but maybe only maxing out at a total of temp bloodlines equaling level/4

Kobold-Bard

2011-09-22, 05:31 AM

Welknair

2011-09-22, 08:14 AM

I have 3 questions for you Welknair:

Have other people been making Bloodlines?
Is there a collated list of such Bloodlies?
Can you make an Incarnum Bloodline (pretty please)?

I also have a reiteration of how much I like your Bloodlines:

A lot :smallbiggrin:

1. Yes, they have. I'd suggest flipping through the other pages of this thread looking for hyper links. To my knowledge, any bloodline not created by myself has been linked somewhere in this thread.
2. No, there is not such a list as of now. I do however have an idea for another thread "Tome of Blood", which would include links to all bloodline material, made by myself and others, as well as additional information on their role in the world. I even came up with rules for how Bloodlines Heredity and mixing works, which I'm planning on posting.
3. I believe that Pyromancer made one. I've never used Incarnum myself, and as such it is somewhat difficult to judge the exact balance level, but it seems decent and the other 'brewers had a healthy discussion about it. The Soulbred (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11817575), I think it was.

And I'm glad you like em. :smallbiggrin:

Have you checked out the Blood King (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213822), the Bloodline Base Class I'll be playing in the Homebrewer's campaign?

Pyromancer999

2011-09-22, 11:05 AM

Have other people been making Bloodlines?

I have. :smallbiggrin: I made an Incarnum bloodline(linked to by Welknair), and also two Weapons of Legacy-themed (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211956) bloodlines.

flabort

2011-09-22, 11:30 AM

I made a pretty bad construct themed one. I didn't have much to work with, but I didn't do a good job with what I had.

I also made a race that gets two major lines (or 8 minor ones with Welknair's mudblood line), that one I actually like.
Not much room to take Blood King levels, though. 10 at the most, if you want to avoid XP penalties. Which effectively gives the character 3 more intermediate lines, or six minor lines. Which is not as good as a blood king 20 :smallwink:

How many bloodlines have you "Finished", but not posted yet, welknair?

Welknair

2011-09-22, 05:42 PM

How many bloodlines have you "Finished", but not posted yet, welknair?

The Blood Chameleon is just about done. There's one or two values that may need tweaking, but hopefully PEACHing will help with that.

I'm one ability away from having the Destined Protector done.

The Family Business Heir and the Tower of Knowledge both have about half the required Specials.

And I have a ton of ideas for bloodlines which I haven't yet put on my to-do list or earnestly started.

Lastly I've been coming up with ideas for the Tome of Blood, which I've mentioned a couple of times. It'd be, among other things, a compilation of links to bloodline-related brewing, much as Owthro has his thread for derivative material. It would additionally include other information I don't know where to put, such as my genealogy system or the "Blooded Beast" idea. I also have ideas for a chain of feats for spellcasters starting with "Blood Magic" and all with the [Blood] tag. Among other things, you'd be able to use the blood of creatures to empower your spells, with higher-HD creatures and those with Bloodlines providing more of a bonus. And now that I think about it, I should probably consult with Pyro on that one, as he's the resident feat-chain expert..

But yeah. Ideas flying everywhere.

And I'm actively working on the rewrites for the magic systems in the game I'm developing. Players recently had a phenomenal combat. I love it.

GunbladeKnight

2011-09-23, 02:23 AM

Saw your link somewhere and it got me re-interested in bloodlines. I thought they were neat when I first saw UA, but when I mentioned them to my DM he said they were kind of weak for what you give up, so I forgot about them. But your Blade-Child and Name Given inspired me to create my own series. Here is the first:
Child of Now (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11900664#post11900664)

Merchant

2011-09-23, 03:56 AM

What is rhe family business and tower of knowledge bloodlines about? Is the destined protector based on the fatekeeper class?

I hope the business is about making money.

Welknair

2011-09-23, 08:49 AM

What is rhe family business and tower of knowledge bloodlines about? Is the destined protector based on the fatekeeper class?

I hope the business is about making money.

The Family Bussiness Heir was actually inspired by a character in my first play-by-post game. One of the players had his character be a part-time construction worker. He wanted to have a bloodline, but the closest was Tinkerer. The entire fluff was "Son, you come from a long line of construction Workers". It was too good not to use eventually. And yes, earning money is a primary feature.

Tower of Knowledge is a know-it-all class, getting something akin to Bardic Knowledge pretty early on.

Destined Protector is a tank. Lots of protect-y powers, such as ones that allow you to split damage with nearby allies, switch places with them if they're in danger, etc.

Pyromancer999

2011-09-23, 10:01 AM

The Family Bussiness Heir was actually inspired by a character in my first play-by-post game. One of the players had his character be a part-time construction worker. He wanted to have a bloodline, but the closest was Tinkerer. The entire fluff was "Son, you come from a long line of construction Workers". It was too good not to use eventually. And yes, earning money is a primary feature.

Tower of Knowledge is a know-it-all class, getting something akin to Bardic Knowledge pretty early on.

Destined Protector is a tank. Lots of protect-y powers, such as ones that allow you to split damage with nearby allies, switch places with them if they're in danger, etc.

I think I just had a nerdgasm. These concepts sound most delightful and I look forward to seeing them soon.:smallbiggrin:

Merchant

2011-09-25, 03:50 AM

You mean this Heir would be for the profession(X) skill. Know it all would be knowledge(X) [or all]? I think your next thought would be for the perfom(X) skill, no?!?

Kobold-Bard

2011-09-25, 04:10 AM

You mean this Heir would be for the profession(X) skill. Know it all would be knowledge(X) [or all]? I think your next thought would be for the perfom(X) skill, no?!?

Master Mime Bloodline!!!

GunbladeKnight

2011-09-25, 04:15 AM

New bloodline: The Talented. XD

Merchant

2011-09-25, 01:10 PM

lol @ Kobold-Bard and Master Mime.

I smiled at first just reading it but then I remembered Welknair's little quote.

"-fluff was "Son, you come from a long line of construction Workers". "

Then I put the two together trying to picture a Mime father telling his Mime son the very same thing. Or in fact an entire mime family (seeing as how they have Mimer's blood running through them veins).

Anywho, @ Welknair. What kind of abilities have you come up with the Heir?

Question. If you have dragon descendent bloodline are you considered "dragon-blooded" sub-type?
_____________________________________-

On another note. I'm sure you have thought of using the standard "blood" class ability that one sees quite often (meaning making weapons or armour out of your blood. If you did you obviously decided to leave it out. I was just wondering if you would consider it again.

Maybe Pyromancer could make a chain of feats for it. I kind of like the idea from the Amechra's Wanderler (sp?) class that give you bonuses against the same bloodline. So if you do make a blood weapon it maybe gets bane for that bloodline (you know your blood's weakness and you can creat "anti-bloodline" antibody or something [another feat?])

Amechra

2011-09-25, 01:44 PM

Random idea: a set of weapon enhancements that function by having a person with a bloodline bleed on them, giving a different effect based off of the bleeder.

flabort

2011-09-25, 01:49 PM

Or a Bloodline Scion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/legendaryWeapons.htm) class, with one or more Legendary weapons for it, with some morphic abilities based on the bloodline?

Alright. Race ya to make it?
Never mind. Too much on my plate. I'll just use the Battle Scion, and make some Legendary Weapons based on Bloodlines for it.

Welknair

2011-09-25, 03:07 PM

You mean this Heir would be for the profession(X) skill. Know it all would be knowledge(X) [or all]? I think your next thought would be for the perfom(X) skill, no?!?

Yes, the Heir focuses on Profession. I was planning on the Tower of Knowledge being everything. I hadn't even considered a Perform based one..

Anywho, @ Welknair. What kind of abilities have you come up with the Heir?

Question. If you have dragon descendent bloodline are you considered "dragon-blooded" sub-type?
_____________________________________-

On another note. I'm sure you have thought of using the standard "blood" class ability that one sees quite often (meaning making weapons or armour out of your blood.

1. The most basic is giving boosts to the skill. I also have ones that allow you to inherit a small team of workers, one that allows you to barge into about anywhere and demand a job, etc..

2. You could rule that. I haven't dealt a lot with the draconic feats and things requiring that specific subtype, but it would make sense.

3. Never even heard of that ability :smallbiggrin: Would you mind enlightening me? What book is it found in?

Random idea: a set of weapon enhancements that function by having a person with a bloodline bleed on them, giving a different effect based off of the bleeder.

Sounds very cool.

Or a Bloodline Scion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/legendaryWeapons.htm) class, with one or more Legendary weapons for it, with some morphic abilities based on the bloodline?

Alright. Race ya to make it?
Never mind. Too much on my plate. I'll just use the Battle Scion, and make some Legendary Weapons based on Bloodlines for it.

Ah, the Scions. Used those in my last D&D campaign. A set of Legendary Weapons based on the bloodlines would be very neat.

flabort

2011-09-25, 03:21 PM

Ah, the Scions. Used those in my last D&D campaign. A set of Legendary Weapons based on the bloodlines would be very neat.

The first one I'm working on is based off of Hero-Born (If that's all right), and works with any lineage within that line. (Battle Scion)
I'll be working on one based on inherit next. (Battle Scion)
I don't have any ideas yet for one that works with multiple bloodlines, but assuming the Chameleon line is out by then, I'll use that next (Also battle scion)
Then Half-bloods (faith scion), Magyk touched (spell scion), glamerkin (spell scion), and then something for the swift scion. I'm not sure which.

I assume you're OK with me using your bloodlines for these, since you seem otherwise ok with using them for other things, but if you want me to not use yours, I'll stop.

Now, if anyone wants to do any weapons for the one's I've listed, before I get to them, go ahead. I'm taking on a big load by deciding to do this.

--------------

I was wondering if you or anyone else was planning on making a PrC for the Blood King. And what the sub-theme might be.
I was thinking one PrC might focus on one line, to the point that it can put more points into it that it has character levels.

--------------

What happens when you take a bloodline beyond 20? It'd be interesting to see epic bloodlines, starting at level 21, going to level 40+. This would be a project and a half beyond bloodlines, though, and we probably won't see anyone making them for several weeks/months.

tonystony

2011-09-25, 06:25 PM

I haven't read previous posts, but honestly this will show you all you have to know.http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.html

Cieyrin

2011-09-25, 06:28 PM

I haven't read previous posts, but honestly this will show you all you have to know.http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.html

*facepalm* It's linked in the first post already, as well as the other changes Welknair has already talked about.

Pyromancer999

2011-09-25, 06:28 PM

I haven't read previous posts, but honestly this will show you all you have to know.http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.html

You really should. He's already linked this.

flabort

2011-09-25, 06:52 PM

As Cieyrin + Pyromancer999 said, it's already linked in the first post. And Welknair has already explained what's presented there, and what's different in his lines.

He's not actually asking "What is a bloodline?", he's using it as a title for an extensive explanation, saying "This is a bloodline, and it does this and this and this."

Welknair

2011-09-25, 08:56 PM

I haven't read previous posts, but honestly this will show you all you have to know.http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.html

There's nothing to say that hasn't already been said... But yeah. I know.

Tip: If you're too lazy to read even the first post of a topic, don't post in it. You have a decent chance of making yourself look like an idiot. I know. I've done it.

Merchant

2011-09-26, 12:39 AM

Using blood as a weapon I've seen from not a book but different prestige classes. Granted a few might have come from DnD Wiki. In regards to your class though. Maybe the Blood King could simply use his/hers BP to create a weapon or armour.

http://www.mangareader.net/blood-soul/1/27

(Just quick info on this manga. Main guy has been killing people with his sword and the blood of his victims soaks into his sword and creates a tribal like design on it. This page and the few following it simply shows the applications he uses for his blood. Another note this guy is a vampire and one of his soon to be victims calls him "Blood Ruler" which struck accord with this class)
_______________________
In regards to Amechra's suggestion it sounds similar but alot more complex and diverse than the same abilities. (and when I say complex and diverse, I mean more insteresting)

As to Amechra's or the scion that was mentioned earlier. I find it very cool (even if the weapon is not made of blood itself) if one can summon a weapon from one's own blood. Gives a new meaning for Legacy Weapon, don't you think.(passed down from one generation to the next In The Blood!!)

EdroGrimshell

2011-09-26, 03:32 AM

Morph Bark

2011-09-26, 04:53 PM

As to Amechra's or the scion that was mentioned earlier. I find it very cool (even if the weapon is not made of blood itself) if one can summon a weapon from one's own blood. Gives a new meaning for Legacy Weapon, don't you think.(passed down from one generation to the next In The Blood!!)

...I just had an idea that will take from an old competition-winning class of mine, many physical-combat-based 'brews, and nearly every bloodline created here so far.

Even though my experience with bloodlines is severely limited.

Thank you Pyro for the informative PM. :smallwink:

Pyromancer999

2011-09-26, 05:23 PM

In regards to Amechra's suggestion it sounds similar but alot more complex and diverse than the same abilities. (and when I say complex and diverse, I mean more insteresting)

As to Amechra's or the scion that was mentioned earlier. I find it very cool (even if the weapon is not made of blood itself) if one can summon a weapon from one's own blood. Gives a new meaning for Legacy Weapon, don't you think.(passed down from one generation to the next In The Blood!!)

I have already made a Weapons/Monsters of Legacy (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211956) bloodline. Still, blood doesn't factor, so it'd be interesting to see something like this.

Even though my experience with bloodlines is severely limited.

Thank you Pyro for the informative PM. :smallwink:

No problem.:smallbiggrin: And I'll be willing to contribute any knowledge I have on bloodlines, as I've made a couple myself.

Welknair

2011-09-26, 05:31 PM

...I just had an idea that will take from an old competition-winning class of mine, many physical-combat-based 'brews, and nearly every bloodline created here so far.

Even though my experience with bloodlines is severely limited.

Thank you Pyro for the informative PM. :smallwink:

No problem.:smallbiggrin: And I'll be willing to contribute any knowledge I have on bloodlines, as I've made a couple myself.

I have no clue what you're talking about, but I certainly look forward to seeing the result. :smallbiggrin:

TravelLog

2011-09-26, 05:47 PM

I think he's making a Hemoscribe PrC that uses blood from bloodlines somehow.

flabort

2011-09-26, 06:28 PM

You know Wolverine's claws? Imagine they were made of liquid blood, that kept it's form, and was sharp, instead of even sharper, harder adamantium.

I think whatever their working on is a bit like that, but you can take the blade right out, and wield it like a sword, or club, or axe, or whatever, and gains extra power based on whatever bloodline you have.

For example, if you're descended from a Balrog, or a Fire Elemental, or something, you're going to be able to wreath your blood-sword in flames. If your great grand pappy was a Vampire, you're going to be able to heal wounds by inflicting wounds on others, or inflict negative levels, or something. If you think it's Christmas all the fr*****g time, your sword is going to taste like peppermint. Or something, maybe it gives you extra bonus feats.

EdroGrimshell

2011-09-26, 07:48 PM

Can't wait to see what you come up with

Pyromancer999

2011-09-26, 08:02 PM

flabort

2011-09-26, 08:16 PM

If you think it's Christmas all the time, odds are you've taken the feat to get you a Candy Cane weapon. Still, sounds interesting.

Well, yes. That does seem more likely.

Still, I suppose you two are working on a PrC or something that does something similar?

Pyromancer999

2011-09-26, 08:29 PM

Well, yes. That does seem more likely.

Still, I suppose you two are working on a PrC or something that does something similar?

Well, it's more Morph Bark working on the PrC, with me just being a Bloodline reference and a person to bounce ideas off of. Mainly I just saw the Hemoscribe class and thought of the disccussion on this thread and mentioned the idea of such a PrC to Morph Bark in a PM.

Owrtho

2011-09-27, 04:11 AM

Using blood as a weapon I've seen from not a book but different prestige classes. Granted a few might have come from DnD Wiki. In regards to your class though. Maybe the Blood King could simply use his/hers BP to create a weapon or armour.

http://www.mangareader.net/blood-soul/1/27

(Just quick info on this manga. Main guy has been killing people with his sword and the blood of his victims soaks into his sword and creates a tribal like design on it. This page and the few following it simply shows the applications he uses for his blood. Another note this guy is a vampire and one of his soon to be victims calls him "Blood Ruler" which struck accord with this class)

Seems to me that Deadman Wonderland (http://www.mangareader.net/666-33040-5/deadman-wonderland/chapter-6.html) might fit a bit better if you're talking about a series in which blood is used as a weapon. Almost everyone important does so, in a variety of different forms.

Owrtho

Merchant

2011-09-27, 11:25 AM

Omg. I forgot deadman wonderland. Been awhile since they came out with new episodes. But yes blood weapons blood projectiles. I see the dragon being fairly easy with elemental properties being added to the weapons. Fang dragon would have further critical enhancement. Blood dragon NA bonus, blood tail. I hate stepping on toes of the ozodrin and harrowed but I line the idea of becoming even further similar to the source of your blood line. Actually it would be redundant with the harrowed and ozodrin. Cant even figure out an angel form. Tuessa it Sony work

Hemoscribe is awesome though and i'm just geeking over a gestalt Blood king and hemoscribe. I love the greenbound ability and van picture king smearing his blood and watching as all those flying creatures go splat and yhen the blood just rises and flies and slithers rapidly towards the king ap he can use another ability.

Merchant

2011-09-28, 12:30 AM

Pyromancer999

2011-09-28, 07:06 AM

Apologies for the double post but I believe this one has more concreteness than my last post which is full of praises and gibberish.

I realized that for this "blood weapon" idea has potential for feat chains and even a prc, but I personally love base classes over prcs (simply because prcs also rock and then I have to make a choice over two awesome ideas).

Eh, not really, feat-chain-wise. It takes a lot more than one would think for a viable feat-chain. Still, I can see maybe a bloodline-based feat or two for my Bladesworn feat-chain, and the Hemoscribe PrC will probably be a bit more than that.

Anywho, "blood weapons" should be given to the Blade Child bloodline "gift". The ability to make weapons that are used for the discpline(s) that the blade child knows. For example, my favorite, the Black Rain discipline. The idea of forming two guns out of your blood and opening a a barrage of (blood?) bullets blows my mind and screams cool idea for an awesome class.

I forget the exact location of it, but I know that there's a feat somewhere on here that lets you turn your mind blade into one of the weapons for one discipline you know.

Morph Bark

2011-09-30, 05:10 AM

In lead-up to making a class involving bloodlines, I tried to make a bloodline (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11936260). Anyone have any comments on it?

Pyromancer999

2011-09-30, 09:00 AM

In lead-up to making a class involving bloodlines, I tried to make a bloodline (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11936260). Anyone have any comments on it?

Looks okay, although if you don't have a Ki or Power Point pool, you're not getting the most you can out of this bloodline.

FallenGuardian

2011-10-25, 04:39 PM

I have a request for someone not exactly to do all the homework involved in this for me (I will take all the help i can get though) but more or less "assist" me in making my weird bloodline that can be pseudo taken at any level. I am just afraid of botching my work up and want some help from the "pros" if you know what i mean. btw linky (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12084677#post12084677) if you are kind enough to assist.

EdroGrimshell

2011-11-24, 03:08 PM

I decided i wanted to make a bloodline myself, so here's the Phrenic Bloodline

{table=head]Level|Minor|Intermediate|Major
1|||Autohypnosis +2
2||Autohypnosis +2|Naturally Psionic
3|||Intelligence +1
4|Autohypnosis +2|Naturally Psionic|Phrenic Talent 1
5|||Phrenic Affinity +2
6||Intelligence +1|Telepathy
7|||Concentration +2
8|Naturally Psionic|Phrenic Talent 1|Phrenic Talent 2
9|||Wisdom +1
10||Phrenic Affinity +2|Subconscious Focus
11|||Phrenic Affinity +4
12|Intelligence +1|Telepathy|Phrenic Talent 3
13|||Psicraft +2
14||Concentration +2|Mindsight
15|||Charisma +1
16|Phrenic Talent 1|Phrenic Talent 2|Phrenic Talent 4
17|||Phrenic Affinity +6
18||Wisdom +1|Eternal Focus
19|||Use Psionic Device +2
20|Phrenic Affinity +2|Subconscious Focus|Phrenic Talent 5[/table]

Naturally Psionic: A Phrenic has a natural wellspring of psionic energy within them. A Phrenic gains one power point every four levels, two levels, or each level depending on Bloodline strength.

Phrenic Talent: Each time this ability is gained, the Phrenic gains a psionic power. The first time this ability is gained the Phrenic can only choose a first level power. Every two times this ability is gained the Phrenic can select a power of one level higher. The manifester level for these powers is equal to a quarter, half, or your character level depending on bloodline strength.

Telepathy (Su): Upon gaining this ability, the Phrenic gains the ability to speak telepathically with any creature with a language within 5ft/level.

Subconcsious Focus (Ex): A Phrenic can spend a full-round action attempting to focus its subconscious. A subconscious focus works just like a normal psionic focus. Focusing its subconscious works just like focusing to gain a normal psionic focus, except the Concentration DC to gain it is 25 instead of 20.

Mindsight: The Phrenic gains the Mindsight feat (Lords of Madness pg126)

Eternal Focus (Ex): A Phrenic's mind is constantly focused from constant conditioning, the Phrenic is treated as always being psionically focused. This eternal focus cannot be expended, but the Phrenic can spend three power points to use an ability or feat that requires a psionic focus.

Acidic_Cakes

2011-11-24, 04:12 PM

We can make requests, you say? Well, in that case, I would like to request a Mundane Bloodline.

That is to say, someone who is so utterly normal that his existence practically warps reality around him to be more sensible and practical. Someone who is so utterly ordinary that he seems bizarre and out of place by contrast to everyone else.

Welknair

2011-12-06, 10:04 AM

Wow, looks like I've got some catching-up to do. I apologize for my absence, life has been really busy lately and I haven't had a lot of time for brewing. Hopefully I should start having a lot more free time soon so I can post my back-log of bloodlines and other bloody material.

Amechra

2011-12-06, 05:13 PM

He... he's BACK! Halleluiah!

Welknair

2011-12-06, 08:49 PM

Never left :smallbiggrin:

I've been monitoring the Homebrewer's Play-by-Post, but haven't had much time for aside from that. Again, trying to find some.

Today I posted the Blood Chameleon bloodline that I mentioned a month ago. I currently have The Ready and Destined Protectorn all typed up, but I have some worries about them. Namely a few abilities of each. "The Ready" focuses on.. well... being ready for stuff. A bonus to initiative seems pretty inuitive, as do many other abilities, but I'm afraid it's too good for SA characters. The bonus isn't massive, but it's not negligible either. The Destined Protector I'm even more concerned about as they directly relate to combat, as most of my bloodlines to do not. An early and key ability is that to enter "Ward Stance" as a full-round action. While an inidividual is in Ward Stance, they gain the benefit of their own Protective Aura (Early ability, minus to attacks to increase adjacent allies' AC by an equal amount, max 5 or BAB), cannot move, and must spend a move-action each round to maintain the Stance. While in the Ward Stance all of the Protector's threatened spaces are considered difficult terrain to enemies. Some friends of mine pointed out ways this could be abused, despite how it makes them a sitting duck. A later ability is called "Destiny Bond" that allows the protector to Bind with a willing individual within Close range and take half of any damage they take. Not really sure how powerful that is. I want to work these out before I post the lines. Thoughts?

flabort

2012-01-19, 02:26 PM

And I'm totally fine with you using that. In general, if you are making bloodline-based homebrew, feel free to reference or utilize any of my other bloodline-homebrew.

I recall you once upon a time giving permission to make a PrC based on the blood king. This is the closest thing I can find, and may I use it in the current PrC contest, with your permission?

Odds are I won't actually use it, though, as my well of inspiration is currently... dry. :smallfrown: I can't come up with anything right now. And that is quite... quite... :smallmad: Err.... MAGIC-LICH-HAND EQUIVALENT TO HULK, SMASH PUNY COMPUTER! :smallfurious::furious:

Deepbluediver

2012-02-07, 04:23 PM

I am also aware that Sorcerers in PF have "Bloodlines". These and those are entirely different. Seriously. The PF Sorcerer's Bloodlines are class features, for Boccob's sake. These are independent of class. Also note the little "3.5e" in the title. Now stop mixing the two up.

Have you ever considered something that melds the PF sorcerer bloodlines and your own fix? For example, I'm wondering what it would be like if you granted some of the spells PF sorcerers get as spell-like abilities to regular bloodlines.

The fluff could be something like "Sorcerers are people who, rather than devote themselves to swords or magic or spirituality, have chosen to explore the limits of their own mystical heritage, and hence why they exhibit much stronger bloodline traits than others."

Pyromancer999

2012-02-07, 05:13 PM

Have you ever considered something that melds the PF sorcerer bloodlines and your own fix? For example, I'm wondering what it would be like if you granted some of the spells PF sorcerers get as spell-like abilities to regular bloodlines.

Seems a bit exclusive to PF, while Bloodlines are more for 3.5. Also, the two aren't that similar.

The fluff could be something like "Sorcerers are people who, rather than devote themselves to swords or magic or spirituality, have chosen to explore the limits of their own mystical heritage, and hence why they exhibit much stronger bloodline traits than others."

Bold stuff = Blood King. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213822)

Deepbluediver

2012-02-08, 08:58 AM

Seems a bit exclusive to PF, while Bloodlines are more for 3.5. Also, the two aren't that similar.

I definitely realize they are very different; I was just asking if it had ever been considered. Plus, I figured some spell-like abilities might be a nice way to make up for those three empty levels that discourage so many players.

Personally, I never really liked the half-dragon/half-ooze/half-cat-girl templates that seem to pop up anywhere you look. It's probably just a quirk of mine, but in a game where you can shoot fireballs out your elbows I still feel drawn to the RL version of cross-breed creatures; i.e. prone to health problems and most likely sterile, NOT "the best of both parents".
Just because a creature can shapeshift into a human (or other creature) doesn't mean you actually BECOME that creature.

I know it's sort of odd, then, that I really like the idea of bloodlines as a replacement. Instead of thinking of it purely biological sense, I prefer it to be more like a mystic ritual performed by arch-mages and demi-dieties using ancient (and forbidden) magic to graft the essence of another creature into your family tree. Then this bloodline manifests itself more or less strongly through the ensuing generations.

Rather than "grandpa slept with a dragon", it becomes "rumors have swirled around your family for decades, but no one ever really made much of it. Just because you had to trim your fingernails every week or they would grow thick and sharp, into almost-like claws, doesn't make you that much different. And it was only a few years ago that you realized not everyone could see as well on a moonless night as they could in daytime. And you've been having these odd dreams, where you can breathe fire, just like a dragon! What sillyness! Still, maybe it wouldn't hurt to talk with your great-aunt Alesaice, who despite having a perpetual green tinge to her skin is healthy and spry at the age of 102."

Bold stuff = Blood King. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213822)
That seems like a version of Welknair's Mudblood-bloodline on steroids. But I feel that (and again, I realize this is personal) mixing to many bloodlines should have an escalating chance of madness, from all the conflicting natures pressing on your mind. That's just my own personal fluff.

Pyromancer999

2012-02-08, 11:31 AM

I definitely realize they are very different; I was just asking if it had ever been considered. Plus, I figured some spell-like abilities might be a nice way to make up for those three empty levels that discourage so many players.

The thing with the three empty levels though, is that with Welknair's version of it, you still get to advance in BAB and your saves(or at least that's how it looks to me), and you also still get that level's bloodline benefit. Also keep in mind that Bloodlines are more of a long-term investment. I personally believe that the benefits of bloodlines exceed three levels by 20th, but again, bloodlines are more of a long-term investment rather than a short/instantaneous investment, like feats and such.

Personally, I never really liked the half-dragon/half-ooze/half-cat-girl templates that seem to pop up anywhere you look. It's probably just a quirk of mine, but in a game where you can shoot fireballs out your elbows I still feel drawn to the RL version of cross-breed creatures; i.e. prone to health problems and most likely sterile, NOT "the best of both parents".
Just because a creature can shapeshift into a human (or other creature) doesn't mean you actually BECOME that creature.

To be fair, half-anything only gets to be somewhat like their parent. Also, as has been explained for dragons, at least, is that some creatures(like dragons) have DNA that's compatible with most anything, and their offspring are somewhat virile along the same measure.

I know it's sort of odd, then, that I really like the idea of bloodlines as a replacement. Instead of thinking of it purely biological sense, I prefer it to be more like a mystic ritual performed by arch-mages and demi-dieties using ancient (and forbidden) magic to graft the essence of another creature into your family tree. Then this bloodline manifests itself more or less strongly through the ensuing generations.

That's pretty much a fluff measure, so you can have that be the case if you want in your games.

Rather than "grandpa slept with a dragon", it becomes "rumors have swirled around your family for decades, but no one ever really made much of it. Just because you had to trim your fingernails every week or they would grow thick and sharp, into almost-like claws, doesn't make you that much different. And it was only a few years ago that you realized not everyone could see as well on a moonless night as they could in daytime. And you've been having these odd dreams, where you can breathe fire, just like a dragon! What sillyness! Still, maybe it wouldn't hurt to talk with your great-aunt Alesaice, who despite having a perpetual green tinge to her skin is healthy and spry at the age of 102."

But Grandpa DID sleep with a dragon. That's how the bloodline cropped up. Again, this sounds just like a personal fluff issue, so you can change the fluff how you want. This doesn't necessarily mean that everyone else has to agree with you. Fluff is just something that can be changed from person to person.

That seems like a version of Welknair's Mudblood-bloodline on steroids. But I feel that (and again, I realize this is personal) mixing to many bloodlines should have an escalating chance of madness, from all the conflicting natures pressing on your mind. That's just my own personal fluff.

Well, Welknair did make the Blood King. Still, personally, I just feel that bloodlines would influence a personality. Sure, there's a bit of draconic/heroic/whatever nature in them, but that doesn't necessarily mean they have a full-blown dragon and hero and something else inside them duking it out for control.

EdroGrimshell

2012-02-14, 10:07 AM

Could i request what skills, abilities, and affinities a Luck-Based Inherent Bloodline would have?

Amechra

2012-02-14, 05:28 PM

Could i request what skills, abilities, and affinities a Luck-Based Inherent Bloodline would have?

I have no clue. I know that one of the ability scores would be Cha, and another could be Dex, but I can't place the last... Wisdom? Strength?

Affinities: Anyone who is currently benefiting from a luck bonus to something, or who naturally has Luck rerolls.

And I think the skills would have to include Bluff, Tumble, and Balance, but that's just me.

Now the question is, what about a Fighter-Based Inherent Bloodline?

Pyromancer999

2012-02-14, 09:04 PM

I have no clue. I know that one of the ability scores would be Cha, and another could be Dex, but I can't place the last... Wisdom? Strength?

I'd say the last would be Int, for cleverness.

Now the question is, what about a Fighter-Based Inherent Bloodline?

Abilities: Str, Dex, Con
Affinity: Any martially-inclined being

OR

Any creature with fighter feats

Skills: Intimidate, Climb, Jump

Pyromancer999

2012-02-14, 09:27 PM

Amechra

2012-02-14, 09:46 PM

Pyromancer999

2012-02-14, 10:22 PM

I now see a character...

He is a Fighter 20, with the ACF that swaps the bonus feats for Sneak Attack as a Rogue. He also has a Major Inherent Bloodline (Fighter).

Congrats, he lost 1 Fighter feat, and gained SO MUCH MORE!

Quite frankly, the Fighter could use it. Although again, that's only usable if within the DM's discretion.

Amechra

2012-02-14, 10:58 PM

This DM gives discretion; it would at least be more interesting than Standard Fighter//Inherent Fighter.

21 Fighter bonus feats? Madness.

Literally, if you take that feat in the Ozodrin thread that treats all fighter feats as Aberrant feats, and then take one of the Aberrant feats that scale by the number of Aberrant feats that you have...

Pyromancer999

2012-02-14, 11:02 PM

Merchant

2012-02-15, 05:53 AM

Question:
In regards to the Blood King and Mixed Blood. If you mixed multiple Dragon lineages together.
1. Would you be able to breathe more than one at the same time?
2. And the Blood Gift -Dragon Scales would all the Natural Armour bonuses stack with each other?

EdroGrimshell

2012-02-15, 09:35 AM

1) I doubt it
2) bonuses of the same type do not stack unless stated otherwise

Merchant

2012-02-15, 01:18 PM

EdroGrimshell

2012-03-10, 12:16 AM

Anyone have an idea on a Racial Feat Inherent Bloodline?

Welknair

2012-03-10, 12:23 AM

Checked the dragon scales gift. It says "you gain a bonus to" the NA. That means its in addition to doesn't it? So they are all just "adding" on to whatever existing NA you already have. At least that is what it sounds like and would be interesting in my opinion.

The NA bonus, nor any of the other Armor bonuses from any bloodline-related feature, was intended to stack.

Anyone have an idea on a Racial Feat Inherent Bloodline?

I'm surprised this thread is still active.

EdroGrimshell

2012-03-10, 12:28 AM

I'm surprised this thread is still active.

Eh, just wanted to know what you'd put in a racial feat inherent bloodline, or if it'd be a new bloodline altogether. Actually a highborn racial bloodline would be interesting...

Welknair

2012-03-10, 12:34 AM

Eh, just wanted to know what you'd put in a racial feat inherent bloodline, or if it'd be a new bloodline altogether. Actually a highborn racial bloodline would be interesting...

More interesting racial identities would indeed warrant their own bloodline. In the Homebrewer's Campaign, we ruled that Inherent could be used with about any feat chain and Owthro used it with his Ozodrin Abomination feat chain. Really a matter of taste.

EdroGrimshell

2012-03-10, 12:47 AM

More interesting racial identities would indeed warrant their own bloodline. In the Homebrewer's Campaign, we ruled that Inherent could be used with about any feat chain and Owthro used it with his Ozodrin Abomination feat chain. Really a matter of taste.

I meant as skills and ability bonuses, because i have no idea.

Welknair

2012-03-10, 12:56 AM

I meant as skills and ability bonuses, because i have no idea.

Ah, you mean the Lineage characteristics. Just choose some things thematic to the chain. For example, if the chain is intended for Rogues, representing a growing tie to the Plane of Shadow, the Abilities would probably be Dex, Int, Wis. Or something like that. By the third ability, you're really just picking based on preference. Skills works similarly. Hide, Move Silently, Knowledge (The Planes), and Sleight of Hand would be suitable for the aforementioned chain. And again, the Affinity would be thematic. Creatures from the Plane of Shadow, in this case.

I see what you mean - It is a bit more difficult with Racial lines, as they usually don't have such transparent tendencies. I'd suggest imagining a stereotypical example of the race and what they'd likely have as their highest attributes and skills. Affinities are pretty self-explanatory here.

DrewVolker

2012-03-30, 07:06 PM

Hey, I don't suppose you are taking requests for bloodline? Or would be willing to help me out with one I wanna make?

I have a half-orc character that I might be playing again in a upcoming game, and his grandfather was a skullcrusher ogre.
So I was thinking about coming up with a skullcrusher ogre bloodline to use for my character.

Skullcrusher ogre is in monster manual III just in case you didn't know.

Thanks.

flabort

2012-03-30, 07:32 PM

To my knowledge, he used to, but now isn't.

Right now I'd recommend the Titankith (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11285712#post11285712) line, since it's for giants, and I'm... not sure whether ogres are giants (I'd have to check to remember), but I think they are. If they're not, they're monstrous humanoids, but it should still fit.

Pyromancer999

2012-03-31, 11:24 AM

Cieyrin

2012-03-31, 01:45 PM

Pretty sure that Ogres have the Giant type.

They do. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ogre.htm) Skullcrushers aren't much different, at least enough so to change type.

DrewVolker

2012-03-31, 06:51 PM

Alright, I think that is what I will do, thanks to all who replied.

Ducky

2012-05-06, 05:05 PM

I love your work on bloodlines, but i have a question. Are the base abilities of the base race (so +feat from human or +low light vision from elves) included in your bloodlines? Does the bloodline replace racial abilities or is it in addition to them?

There doesn't seem to be anything in Unearthed Arcana or anywhere on the internet to say one way or the other. The fact that Bloodlines are located in the "Racial" category of the book hints that the Bloodline is a "race" but all the pictures are of "human with X bloodline"

Anyway, what do people think? Base racial abilities included or no?

radmelon

2012-05-06, 05:09 PM

Bloodlines are an addition to your race. You get the benefits of the bloodline on top of whatever race you may be.

dradamh

2014-10-06, 08:54 AM

I wish this explanation was more visible on search engines than the Bloodlines Handbook that explains bloodlines as level adjustments. That explanation doesn't fit with the text that clearly categorizes bloodlines as class levels and not level adjustments.

TheBrassDuke

2015-04-08, 09:34 AM

the_insomniac

2015-12-01, 10:45 PM

they most certainly DO count towards ecl. when they say they dont increase character level normally, BUT here are some benefits, its just a poorly worded "here's something bad, BUT here's something good"....what is meant is this: when u increase in character level, u go through a process of "leveling up" (described in the player's handbook on page 58) but when u take a level of bloodline, its different. no hd, no saves, no class features, etc. what happens is this: (before i explain, people should know that when u level up, your xp doesnt "reset" to 0. as u gain xp, u hit "checkpoints" so to speak. when u hit these "checkpoints", u "level up".) now, when a 2nd level character with a "bloodline" has gained enough xp to level up to a 3rd level character, they have to take a level of bloodline (assuming they havnt yet). IF the level of bloodline DIDNT count towards ecl, then you would have a rogue2/bloodline1 (or whatever2/bloodline1) with an ecl 2 but enough xp to level up. so, the whatever2/bloodline1 would then take the 3rd level of rogue (or whatever), and go through the process of leveling up (marking increases to hp, saves, bab, skills, etc). now, what this would look like is this: dm: "u need to take a level of bloodline now", and the player would say "ok" and then just take the 3rd level of rogue (or whatever), and mark down the benefit granted by the bloodline at character level 3. "taking a level of bloodline" would then be a process entirely composed of NOTHING! now, on page 19 of unearthed arcana, it explains what the penalties are for NOT taking a level of bloodline by the deadline given. there IS a downside to NOT taking the level on time, so, that means it's POSSIBLE to NOT take the level on time. so why wouldnt someone meet the deadline for taking the bloodline level? maybe their character REALLY needs another HD in order to keep surviving, who knows, but the point is this: bloodlines are NOT just "free benefits". they come at a cost. that cost is outlined in the first paragraph under the heading "bloodline levels" on page 19 of unearthed arcana. a static la ISNT ENOUGH. that's what it says. and these bloodline levels ARE worse, as they cant be reduced through la buyoff (natually, since they are levels, not level adjustments).

some people just cant accept the way things are. for example, all these people who think they can cast higher level spells with an illumian extra spell slot trick or whatever. theres this cool little sentence on page 8 of the player's handbook "....Intelligence score of 15, so she’s smart enough to get one bonus 1st level spell and one bonus 2nd-level spell. (She will not actually get the 2nd-level spell until she is 3rd level wizard, since that’s the minimum level a wizard must be to cast 2nd-level spells.)" now, heighten spell is in THAT book. so if u have a bonus 2nd level spell slot from a 15 int, and the feat heighten spell, can u heighten magic missile to 2nd level and cast it? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! END. OF. DISCUSSION. there is NO argument to that, and there is NO argument to the fact that bloodlines are NOT as cheap as level adjustments!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Caudex Capite

2015-12-02, 01:45 AM

As a layman, I still don't understand how to use and apply these things. A step-by-step guide in English, without the "elite" jargon associated with it--as if you're talking to a beginner--would be nice. I'm by no means a beginner, but this Bloodline thing is confusing as balls.

Say I'm a sixth level human sorcerer and I want to go with the Djinn or Efreeti bloodline from SRD. Step-by-step, what am I doing? Minor, Intermediate and Major, I'm confused as all hell. How much experience do I have, what abilities? What level am I really? Where do I go from here?

You know, as if you were talking to an idiot. Or trying to describe the theory of wormholes to, say, Sloth from the Goonies.

Please and thank you. :3

This thread is several years old, but it's probably worth pointing out that Welknair rewrites the Bloodline rules in the first post here to make them slightly more consistent and understandable, and I recommend using them as he explains them in the OP here.

To quickly try to address sources of confusion: You don't acquire a Bloodline at some point in your career. It's something you decide on at character creation, and has no immediate cost. However, you suffer some debilitating penalties if you try to level up normally with a Bloodline at certain levels. With a Major Bloodline, you have to take 3 "Bloodline Levels," one each at or before levels 3, 6, and 12. So, you create your Sorcerer with a Major Djinni Bloodline, level up to level 2 normally, but when you next level up, instead of becoming a Sorcerer 3, you become Sorcerer 2/Bloodline 1. This Bloodline level gives you a Hit Die with no hit points (not even from Constitution), no skill points, and no class skills. However, it does increase your caster level (but not spells known or per day), and, for other classes, anything else that's explicitly dependent on your number of class levels, like the damage a Paladin's Smite Evil does. This level isn't an LA, and can't be bought off.
At level 5, you'll be Sorcerer 4/Bloodline 1 with a CL of 5. At level 6, you'll be Sorcerer 4/Bloodline 2 with a CL of 6, at level 12 you'll be Sorcerer 9/Bloodline 3, and at level 20 you'll be Sorcerer 17/Bloodline 3.

That's the way Welknair's fix works, and it's probably the most reasonable way to play them. The rules of bloodlines as written have some ambiguity to them, and there are lots of arguments over exactly what they mean. Specific points of contention include whether or not they count as levels for the purposes of how much experience it takes to level up, if they stack multiple times if you have, for example, both Sorcerer levels and Abjurant Champion levels, and how much experience you should get from encounters. Seriously, you aren't going to find consensus on those things, and I'd strongly advise using the houseruled version that Welknair presents in this thread, along with the other bloodlines he's homebrewed (they're in his signature) in place of everything in the SRD. It's more balanced and easier to understand.

EDIT: Oh, goodness, I'd only noticed that the post I replied to was in 2015, and that the more recent necro was in the post after it. Sorry!