Minister Malack

[Ya Ta Hey!]

I wonder what he had for dinner, anyway?

I figured that he would turn out to be some kind of lizardfolk vampire, what with the bit about specialized diets that have to be eaten in private.

[GSFB]

possibly. it also could be that he eats live rodents, and simply is too polite to gross out others at dinner time.

[Mutant Sheep]

possibly. it also could be that he eats live rodents, and simply is too polite to gross out others at dinner time.

If he eats live rodents, he really IS evil! Rats and mice and rats that look like guinea pigs are awesome.

[calam]

Yeah he's probably a vampire or other undead that has a sustenance requirement. It is unlikely that he's a standard lizard folk because he mentioned a special diet. he could also be a wight which must eat people's life force.

Kind of off topic but when/if Durkon finds out that someone he befriended is undead it might give him some much needed character development.

[Incom]

Well, if Malack is undead, and given that Team Evil now knows the gate's location (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0697.html), and if Team Evil brings along Tsukiko... hilarity could ensue.

[Demonic1000]

I wonder what he had for dinner, anyway?

I figured that he would turn out to be some kind of lizardfolk vampire, what with the bit about specialized diets that have to be eaten in private.

He seems like a good guy. Doesn't hate on the Order or anything.

[Morquard]

It's been pointed out that Malack walked in broad daylight, so him being a vampire is unlikely

[Ya Ta Hey!]

Its true. I saw it with my own eyes! :smalltongue:

But something is just not right. Kilkil seems genuinely scared of interrupting Malack's ritual (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0718.html) to the underworld diety, and Malack's pardon is kind of conditional. I see privacy as a recurring theme here.

Not to mention the bloodwort tea (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0737.html) that Durkon probably shouldn't have drunk.

[theNater]

I wonder what he had for dinner, anyway?
Probably a herbal soup of some sort. A lot of medicinal herbs have strong odors, and that would interfere with other people's enjoyment of their own meals.

But something is just not right. Kilkil seems genuinely scared of interrupting Malack's ritual (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0718.html) to the underworld diety, and Malack's pardon is kind of conditional.
What's so wrong about that? Malack is one of the top three people in the nation. It's a little like visiting the restroom at work and seeing the head of your department in there. No matter how relaxed they are, you're gonna freak out a little.

Not to mention the bloodwort tea (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0737.html) that Durkon probably shouldn't have drunk.
Bloodwort is good for headaches and the digestive system. Why shouldn't Durkon drink it(apart from the flavor, of course)?

[RLivengood]

possibly. it also could be that he eats live rodents, and simply is too polite to gross out others at dinner time.

I don't really see how Malack's poor health would require him to eat live rodents. Clearly, he eats blenderized rodents. In which case, "Too polite to gross out others" is still a valid theory.

[Porthos]

It's been pointed out that Malack walked in broad daylight, so him being a vampire is unlikely

Not that I believe this for a second, but he could have some sort of magic item/ability that lets him be out in the sunlight.

[derfenrirwolv]

He's not a vampire, he's standing in direct sunlight in several panels.

There was plenty of blood at the table if he was

Its possible he didn't enjoy feasting on the innocent because he's Lawful Neutral: he feels that restoring order to a chaotic continent is something that needs to be done even if its by an iron fist... but is unwilling to take part in the unnecessary slaughter of the innocent such as the feast.

[Icedaemon]

What's so wrong about that? Malack is one of the top three people in the nation. It's a little like visiting the restroom at work and seeing the head of your department in there. No matter how relaxed they are, you're gonna freak out a little.

You forgot: Who is capable of casually killing you and any witnesses with a few words, working in a place where the most he would get for that would be a fine and some tut-tut-ing, given his status and who seems to be really insistent on privacy.

Malack does seem to be the 'neutral, working for evil people' sort indeed. His pointing out that the god of death and destruction should be neutral and such had a slight tinge of justification and clerics are after all supposed to have exemplary sense motive, so Durkon might well detect some casual evil notes if Malack were a true villain.

[Flame of Anor]

He seems like a good guy. Doesn't hate on the Order or anything.

Neutral guy, by his own implication.

[GSFB]

The bathroom comment totally reminded me of "Robocop" by the way...

[snikrept]

It's unlikely that he's undead, even one that can face full sunlight, since he serves a Death god. Undead would be a pretty big sin against his own religion.

[hamishspence]

Repose deities might disapprove of the undead, but not necessarily Death deities.

I could easily see Nerull or maybe Wee Jas allowing their clerics to become liches- so why not Nergal?

[NerfTW]

clerics are after all supposed to have exemplary sense motive, so Durkon might well detect some casual evil notes if Malack were a true villain.

As Rich has already pointed out in another thread, and as others have said over time, even if Malack were evil, Durkon is a willing guest in his home. He hasn't seen him commit any outright evil acts, might not know about the slaves, and is trying to be a good guest so the Order can gain information. He's not Miko. Until Malack makes an overtly evil act, Durkon has no quarrel with him.

As for slavery, killing Malack isn't exactly going to take down the entire regime. It would be pointless to start a fight that will help nothing and only delay their main quest. Durkon's a cleric with a strong sense of duty, not a zealot.

[Icedaemon]

I did not mean and am surprised it was read as 'if Durkon does feel that Malack is evil, they would fight', but rather 'If Malack were as clearly evil as Tarquin, Durkon would likely know by now, as probably would we the readers'.

[Lappy9000]

Maybe he just has a special diet. I know I have one, and wouldn't want to offend any well-to-do's at an official banquet by refusing the expensive and fancy cuisine.

[Querzis]

...or you know, hes an albino Lizardfolk which most likely means he has a very low CON score and therefore really need a special diet for his health.


I could easily see Nerull or maybe Wee Jas allowing their clerics to become liches- so why not Nergal?

Well it depends on the death god and the fictional universe, I saw some consider undead as cheating death and ask their followers to destroy them on sight or some consider undead to still be dead anyway and use them as minion. So basically, it mostly depends on Rich cause I saw both approach and they are both valid reasoning in my opinion. Although mind you, for the record, in a world where every sentient undead means a dead soul isnt in the afterlife it should belong too, I definitly think hating undeads make more sense then using them as minions for a Death God.

[Retech]

A ghast?!? TURN UNDEAD

[Zubzub]

Wouldnt the order be able to understand the difference between an undead lizardfolk and an albino lizardfolk by the appearance anyway?

[Snails]

It's unlikely that he's undead, even one that can face full sunlight, since he serves a Death god. Undead would be a pretty big sin against his own religion.

While I personally agree with your point that undeath would most likely be very offensive to a God of Death, we would be in the minority.

Authors of D&D material seem to not be able to resist putting undead amongst the priesthood and prominent worshippers of similar gods.

So if the OotSverse is emulating a campaign that has fairly common D&D norms, then Malack most certain can be undead.

I wish you were right, but I afraid your argument cannot be expected to hold water. Sorry.

[Snails]

Wouldnt the order be able to understand the difference between an undead lizardfolk and an albino lizardfolk by the appearance anyway?

Some kinds of undead are known for being very non-obvious, except for a somewhat unusual degree of pallor. Albinoism would cover that up nicely.

I still vote for vampire.

Admittedly standing in sunlight is a strike against, but I do not think that is an insurmountable problem for NPCs well into the realm of double-digit levels.

The charming thing about this hypothesis is it suggests a means for Belkar to "breathe his last" without being gone from the strip. Recall that Malack and friends had a slightly odd conversation around the subject of "family" with that "special bond".

[veti]

Neutral guy, by his own implication.

Why should we take his word for that?

Just for the moment, imagine you're evil, and your brief is to befriend and distract or detain the other party's LG cleric while your teammates wipe out his teammates.

Wouldn't you pretend to be LN? Particularly if you don't even have to tell a direct lie to do so.

We haven't seen him making anything that even approximates to a moral decision. All we know for sure is that he's close friends with Tarquin, who is evil on a level that eclipses everyone short of Xykon.

Bottom line: our only evidence for Malack's alignment is highly suspect.

[ORione]

Why should we take his word for that?

Just for the moment, imagine you're evil, and your brief is to befriend and distract or detain the other party's LG cleric while your teammates wipe out his teammates.

Wouldn't you pretend to be LN? Particularly if you don't even have to tell a direct lie to do so.

We haven't seen him making anything that even approximates to a moral decision. All we know for sure is that he's close friends with Tarquin, who is evil on a level that eclipses everyone short of Xykon.

Bottom line: our only evidence for Malack's alignment is highly suspect.

Excellent point. The only thing is that the person you quoted was using the evidence to argue against LG. I agree that Malack's probably either LN or LE.

[dtilque]

Not to mention the bloodwort tea (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0737.html) that Durkon probably shouldn't have drunk.

I think he managed to neutralize any evil influences by drowning them with his .. ah ... "magic potion".


I always assumed Malack had the same thing the steward brought V: hummus (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0747.html). No evidence for this, just a hunch.

[Sunken Valley]

He can't be undead: no black speech balloons

[hamishspence]

Sometimes speech balloons don't follow the general rules- maybe because the character is keeping up a masquerade.

Sabine is a demon, yet does not have a coloured balloon. Where normally, Outsiders do.

[Demonic1000]

A ghast?!? TURN UNDEAD

ROFL. Blast from the past.

[Ya Ta Hey!]

Malack could just be a lizardfolk cleric who's that unique, I guess.

But looking through Elan-vision, the way he's been presented so far just honestly looks like he a 'more than meets the eye' kind of character. He's a co-conspirator with Tarquin, and he hooked up Durkon with a spell--not to say that he's insignificant in the world, but that's a pretty minor story role and its hard to imagine why the stuff about his past, diet, beliefs, and health would bear mentioning if that's all. They smell like clues, to me.

Yes, clues. It was Malack, in the billiard room, with the candlestick! I know it was.

[Howler Dagger]

Why should we take his word for that?

Just for the moment, imagine you're evil, and your brief is to befriend and distract or detain the other party's LG cleric while your teammates wipe out his teammates.

Wouldn't you pretend to be LN? Particularly if you don't even have to tell a direct lie to do so.

We haven't seen him making anything that even approximates to a moral decision. All we know for sure is that he's close friends with Tarquin, who is evil on a level that eclipses everyone short of Xykon.

Bottom line: our only evidence for Malack's alignment is highly suspect.

even if Malack WAS working for the LG, i dont think Nale knew about the OOTS being in town untill the whole parade thing. All Malack knew before he met durkon was that he was a religous pilgrim. I doubt Malack, unless he was working with the LG(which is highly improbable), would have any reason to lie about the whole Neutrality thing. So my guess he is LN or TN. Also, he is probably just albino and adventure-scarred, so he may have a poor metabolism. He is standing in sunlight, so i doubt he is a vampire or undead. Also, on the wikipedia page on nergal:

Nergal actually seems to be in part a solar deity, sometimes identified with Shamash, but only a representative of a certain phase of the sun. Portrayed in hymns and myths as a god of war and pestilence, Nergal seems to represent the sun of noontime and of the summer solstice that brings destruction, high summer being the dead season in the Mesopotamian annual cycle.

Nergal was also the deity who presides over the netherworld, and who stands at the head of the special pantheon assigned to the government of the dead (supposed to be gathered in a large subterranean cave known as Aralu or Irkalla).

[Ya Ta Hey!]

Hmm...Maybe he's wearing head-to-tail sunblock, and not really albino at all.

"Tan, Don't Burn With Adamantone"

[EDIT: ^ is meant as a legitimate guess, not a rude jab :smallsmile:]

[Snails]

Hmm...Maybe he's wearing head-to-tail sunblock, and not really albino at all.

"Tan, Don't Burn With Adamantone"

A magical sunblock is not really implausible in a D&D-like world. It is merely unlikely.

[Snails]

Most likely Malack is loyal enough to Tarquin. As one of Tarquin's close associates it is a virtual impossibility that he is of Good alignment.

Assuaging any possible concerns of Durkon about his patron deity makes perfect sense, regardless of his actual own philosophical view. Even a diehard Evil Lawful Evil might properly bemoan how his patron is so often misunderstood.

[Gryffon]

While I personally agree with your point that undeath would most likely be very offensive to a God of Death, we would be in the minority.

Authors of D&D material seem to not be able to resist putting undead amongst the priesthood and prominent worshippers of similar gods.

So if the OotSverse is emulating a campaign that has fairly common D&D norms, then Malack most certain can be undead.

I wish you were right, but I afraid your argument cannot be expected to hold water. Sorry.

Even in D&D it depends on the diety. 3/3.5 had two gods of Death, both of which didn't have much qualms with undead. In 4th, the current god of Death abhors them. There are often times gods with the portfolio of undeath as well.

[Snails]

Even in D&D it depends on the diety. 3/3.5 had two gods of Death, both of which didn't have much qualms with undead. In 4th, the current god of Death abhors them. There are often times gods with the portfolio of undeath as well.

Given a 3.xish kind of world, unless the DM supplies specific information on the topic, we should guess that worshippers or priests of a Death god are vastly more likely to be undead.

As I already said, I do personally dislike this correlation existing on aesthetic grounds. But when it comes to speuclating about the nature of the OotSverse, probably should lean in favor what data we have on 3.x published campaigns rather than guess the opposite.

[JackRackham]

Most likely Malack is loyal enough to Tarquin. As one of Tarquin's close associates it is a virtual impossibility that he is of Good alignment.

Assuaging any possible concerns of Durkon about his patron deity makes perfect sense, regardless of his actual own philosophical view. Even a diehard Evil Lawful Evil might properly bemoan how his patron is so often misunderstood.

Tarquin makes a point of arguing the irrelevance of alignment. I also feel Malack is neutral, but I think Tarquin would be fine adventuring with a 'good' party member, so long as said party member could handle his actions.

[hamishspence]

Tarquin makes a point of arguing the irrelevance of alignment. I also feel Malack is neutral, but I think Tarquin would be fine adventuring with a 'good' party member, so long as said party member could handle his actions.

Given the kind of actions mentioned in the very same strip- it would be a bit hard for most good, or even neutral, characters to handle Tarquin's actions:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0760.html

[Snails]

Tarquin makes a point of arguing the irrelevance of alignment. I also feel Malack is neutral, but I think Tarquin would be fine adventuring with a 'good' party member, so long as said party member could handle his actions.

Tarquin may see things that way.

But on the scale of evil, Tarquin more than gives Xykon a run for his money, and leaves Belkar in the dust. He just happens to be very lawful, so that he can always tell himself it is all "for the best" in some fashion in the end.

The Lords of Hell think much the same way.

So, no, a Good person could not associate with Tarquin. And even a Neutral person would find it difficult for any length of time, save for compliance brought by utter fear.

Tarquin's opinion of how easy he himself is to work with is not really relevant,

At least when V annihilated a big chunk of black dragonkind, he could correctly claim that most all of them were surely guilty of many evil acts. V's implicit reasoning seems really rock solid compared to "I am going to liquify every man in this room" or "lighting the escapees on fire is a nice way to celebrate my son's birthday".

[Gryffon]

Given a 3.xish kind of world, unless the DM supplies specific information on the topic, we should guess that worshippers or priests of a Death god are vastly more likely to be undead.

As I already said, I do personally dislike this correlation existing on aesthetic grounds. But when it comes to speuclating about the nature of the OotSverse, probably should lean in favor what data we have on 3.x published campaigns rather than guess the opposite.

Why would we assume their follows are more likely to be undead? A fair number of people revere the god of death, because it's an inescapable fact. Others worship a god of death, because they like killing. If anything an undead would be more like to be clergy of a god of undeath. The domain of death does not encompass the undead. In fact, undead have quite intentionally circumvented death. Why would they worship something they have chosen to avoid?

It may be more likely for an undead to worship a god of Death than say a god of the Sun or Nature, but not anymore so than a god of Greed. I think your correlation is fallacious.

[Snails]

Why would we assume their follows are more likely to be undead? A fair number of people revere the god of death, because it's an inescapable fact. Others worship a god of death, because they like killing. If anything an undead would be more like to be clergy of a god of undeath. The domain of death does not encompass the undead. In fact, undead have quite intentionally circumvented death. Why would they worship something they have chosen to avoid?

It may be more likely for an undead to worship a god of Death than say a god of the Sun or Nature, but not anymore so than a god of Greed. I think your correlation is fallacious.

I am assuming nothing.

My correlation is based on observations about gaming material produced by WotC and TSR.

My conclusion may be incorrect due to the skews of the subset of data I happen to be familiar with. It cannot be "fallacious" without you presenting hard data. It cannot be debunked based on handwaving arguments.

Mind you, I may even agree with many of your handwaving arguments. But my agreement or disagreement in no way overthrows actual observations.

My guess is that the Death god and vampires are both deliciously "goth" to some authors, so they happen to like throwing them together. Whatever.

[TimeWizard]

I think we all know what the truth is. Malack is Girard.

(No I don't believe it but someone has to mention the crazy to keep the crazies at bay).

But could you imagine! It'd be the perfect cover for an Illusionist! pretend to be a cleric of a different race, and secretly control the empires so that no one gets their hands on the gate!



[Also, I agree with the god of death dislikes undeath thing.]

[Snails]

I wonder if Malack has a big scythe (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0666.html)? (See panel 7.)

[martianmister]

I wonder if Malack has a big scythe (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0666.html)? (See panel 7.)

My all-time favourite theory. :smallsmile:

[Cornelius Grim]

I wonder if Malack has a big scythe (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0666.html)? (See panel 7.)

Better yet, what game shall Belkar attempt to beat Malack at? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0718.html) Note: The example given here does not work with Belkar. :smalleek:

[Getsugaru]

Albinism is able to be represented in D&D by the Character Flaws "Feeble" and "Frail" from Unearthed Arcana. The exact text from the book is:
Feeble
You are unathletic and uncoordinated.
Effect: You take a –2 penalty on Strength-, Dexterity-, and
Constitution-based ability checks and skill checks.
Frail
You are thin and weak of frame.
Effect: Subtract 1 from the number of hit points you gain at
each level. This flaw can reduce the number of hit points you
gain to 0 (but not below).
Special: You must have a Constitution of 4 or higher to take
this flaw.
Also, you have to remember that the empire of blood has many enemies who probably try to poison the higher ups. And if you add this fact to the character flaws presented above, Malack wouldn't be able to survive the high level poisons the empire's enemies use. Therefore, Malack has to eat special food that may include medicine that boosts his physical attributes.

[BillyBobJoe]

Better yet, what game shall Belkar attempt to beat Malack at? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0718.html) Note: The example given here does not work with Belkar. :smalleek:

I dunno, we don't know the current whereabouts of The Girdle of Feminity/ Masculinity, so I think it could work just fine. :smallwink:

[Forum Explorer]

We know Malack is likely not undead because Tarquin's advice to him is to shack up with a girl and have some kids. I assume that after all this time Tarquin would know if Malack was alive or not.

[with an e]

I thought about using that line against the vampire idea, but it doesn't work. Tarquin's advice to Malack having more children was "find the right person and get to it." Because a vampire sires spawns, the line can mean "find the right person and turn him into a vampire" rather than "find the right girl and make children with her."

[Snails]

We know Malack is likely not undead because Tarquin's advice to him is to shack up with a girl and have some kids. I assume that after all this time Tarquin would know if Malack was alive or not.

Malack may not be likely to be undead because he has been seen outdoors during daylight hours. That is not an insurmountable barrier in a world of magic, but it is what it is.

But you are misreading Malack's comments about family. They are slightly ambiguous in an odd way. In fact they fit absolutely perfectly for both normal biological reproduction and conversion to undeath.

[TheMac04]

Maybe his hood protects him?

[Rules Lawyer #1]

The Legions of Hell Vol. I source book tells us that Nergal is a Lawful Evil Baatezu whose particular pleasure is the spread of disease in the Prime worlds. Thus, it makes perfect sense for Malack to be afflicted with a permanent disease (albino with severe food allergies).

Also Clerics may differ from the alignment of their by one step and may only be neutral if their deity is neutral (Player's Handbook p.31). It follows that Nergal could be Lawful Neutral even though his deity is Lawful Evil. But he could just as easily be committing terrible evil acts in secret. We just don't know. Then again, given that Tarquin (who is Lawful Evil) so eloquently dismisses the notion of alignment morality, it could be Malack is merely doing the same thing in his own way. Moreover, alignment is not a straight-jacket (Player's Handbook p. 103) so Malack could be tolerant of Tarquin's evil acts and engage in questionable behaviors (perhaps for the sake of Law) without committing any purely evil acts himself.

Durkon is not compelled to attack Malack even if Malack's alignment is evil. I can't imagine Durkon would tolerate Malack performing any evil deeds, but where are the evil deeds? So far, there is a lot of suspicion that Malack is up to no good, but no substantive proof. The neutrality claim throws another monkey wrench into that approach.

Malack's first reaction to Elan is to mistake Elan for Nale, which reveals that Malack has a score to settle with Nale. Therefore, the most logical conclusion is that Malack is not working with Nale. Sure, it could be an elaborate deception, but Nergal is not a deity of deception.

All in all, I'd say Malack is a brilliantly portrayed character that challenges D&D stereotypes. Lizardfolk are a neutral monster race that many players who encounter them for the first time in a game automatically assume is an evil monster race. The Giant has taken this to the next level. Everyone assumes that Malack is an evil undead creature! But... is he? dun Dun DUN!

[hamishspence]

The Legions of Hell Vol. I source book tells us that Nergal is a Lawful Evil Baatezu whose particular pleasure is the spread of disease in the Prime worlds. Thus, it makes perfect sense for Malack to be afflicted with a permanent disease (albino with severe food allergies).

However, "outcast archdevils" frequently get renamed- partly to annoy other entities.

The Nergal of Baator is not the same as the Nergal who is a deity.

There's an archdevil called Dagon- named that to irritate the demon Dagon.

[windweaver]

Interesting thought process in the OP and I do not know why I am surprised anymore at the topics that show up on forums. I love dealing with nerds. We're so much more interesting.

Anyway... he's definitely a more than meets the eye character but I can't understand why the Giant would make Malack a vampire. I mean, what does it really do for the story? The diet thing could be a way to give him some conflict with Durkon and set up some development for him as other people here have speculated but I also think it might have just been a ruse to let Malack handle something else if he left to take the meal in private (I don't really remember that strip).

[Snails]

What is does for the story is Belkar will breathe his last ever at the hands of someone in blacks robes bearing a large scythe (often the favored weapon of a god of death) and he could stay in the main storyline...

It really is the best explanation for Malack's claim of a special diet due to his delicate condition (even some might disagree about undeath for other reasons). And there is something slightly odd about that conversation regarding "family" and Malack. Why would the Giant bring up the courtship concerns of a character for whom we are not likely to ever see the little hatchlings...unless it is more immediately important for the fate of a member of the Order?

It ties together 5 apparently disparate questions at once:
(1) Belkar breathes his last how?
(2) Will Belkar stay in the main storyline? I am guessing yes, but how...?
(3) What is Malack's special diet?
(4) Family: Why should we care about lizardfolk hatchlings in a vague future (unless hatchlings are not what we are talking about)?
(5) What is Malack hiding? I am sure he is hiding something from Durkon. (His grotesquely evil ways maybe?)

[snikrept]

I think we all know what the truth is. Malack is Girard.

(No I don't believe it but someone has to mention the crazy to keep the crazies at bay).

But could you imagine! It'd be the perfect cover for an Illusionist! pretend to be a cleric of a different race, and secretly control the empires so that no one gets their hands on the gate!
Hmm... building further on that.... then we have to assume that the recorded outburst in the desert was a deliberate con (Which is likely for many reasons. Who threatens a high level paladin with such a wimpy bomb?) and that Girard doesn't have such a hatred of laws, rules and controls as we have been led by Girard to believe...


EDIT also, it could be that Malack doesn't dine with Tarquin because Tarquin eats really, really objectionable things like phoenix pate ripped from a live phoenix and so forth. Malack may have been merely being political in his refusal; after so many years of working with Tarquin this is probably required.

[Snails]

The bomb would not be expected to scratch Soon. However, it might vaporize some of Soon's followers. Girard would positively hope that the stupid paladin would grow a conscience and feel guilty about sacrificing his followers while breaking an oath. And if Soon does not feel guilty (likely) then Girard is not going to. A win-win, sort of.

[Ulysses WkAmil]

I think we all know what the truth is. Malack is Girard.

(No I don't believe it but someone has to mention the crazy to keep the crazies at bay).

But could you imagine! It'd be the perfect cover for an Illusionist! pretend to be a cleric of a different race, and secretly control the empires so that no one gets their hands on the gate!


Just to point out the obvious, this could not be possible due to Malack adventuring with Tarquin years before, unless Girard captured Malack and took his place like from Harry Potter 4. Malack seems like a nice guy, having decent conversation with Durkon and V(http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0764.html (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0764.html)[/URL]).Usually undead/vampires/people hiding something dont associate much with the good guys.

[theNater]

What is does for the story is Belkar will breathe his last ever at the hands of someone in blacks robes bearing a large scythe (often the favored weapon of a god of death) and he could stay in the main storyline...
The "black robe and a big scythe" comment is made by Roy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0666.html). Unless you share Elan's belief that Roy is a future psychic, that isn't official prophecy.

And there is something slightly odd about that conversation regarding "family" and Malack. Why would the Giant bring up the courtship concerns of a character for whom we are not likely to ever see the little hatchlings...unless it is more immediately important for the fate of a member of the Order?
That conversation (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0764.html) is the three casters having a plot-irrelevant discussion in the foreground while Elan and Haley discuss major plot points in the background. That's the joke. By this logic, Malack's hemline and/or lack of a rope belt may be immediately important for the fate of a member of the Order.

(5) What is Malack hiding? I am sure he is hiding something from Durkon. (His grotesquely evil ways maybe?)
Why do you think Malack is hiding something? As far as I'm aware, he hasn't evaded any questions put to him. Also, he's been polite and friendly overall, save when he believed Nale to be in the room.

[Snails]

Usually undead/vampires/people hiding something dont associate much with the good guys.

Usually. But they might when it is practical to hide almost in plain sight, with strong allies and an army on hand to back them up in case of a "misunderstanding". Why hide in a obscure location when a supply of choice food can be skimmed off the top this eternal bloodbath Tarquin runs without anyone noticing?

I think Malack genuinely likes the company of someone he can share some philosophical discussions with.

Tipping his hand would only precipitate a violent response from Durkon. It is impolite to make a guest feel uncomfortable, and it is downright rude to push a guest down a path which will require you to slit his throat (or drink his blood).

[Snails]

The "black robe and a big scythe" comment is made by Roy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0666.html). Unless you share Elan's belief that Roy is a future psychic, that isn't official prophecy.

Sure. But it is a fun little bit of "possible foreshadowing".


That conversation (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0764.html) is the three casters having a plot-irrelevant discussion in the foreground while Elan and Haley discuss major plot points in the background. That's the joke. By this logic, Malack's hemline and/or lack of a rope belt may be immediately important for the fate of a member of the Order.

Well, when I put forth the Vampire Hypothesis, I always get the response "but Malack is thinking about having hatchlings!" Well, no, he never says that. And that conversation more in my favor than the opposite, if it is relevant to anything at all.


Why do you think Malack is hiding something? As far as I'm aware, he hasn't evaded any questions put to him. Also, he's been polite and friendly overall, save when he believed Nale to be in the room.

The "special diet" is a bizarre detail to drop. Malack could have simply said that Tarquin banquet does not suit him, and leave it at that.

It is also very peculiar for someone with an actual delicate constitution to survive into higher levels when starting out as an adventurer. That hints that Malack may be using a euphemism.

Furthermore, contrary to how most people read it, Malack never denies the possibility that he is evil. He merely points out, quite correctly, that people misunderstand the true nature of his patron (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0737.html) and his patron's mistress.

I would further note that Durkon has a track record of habitually failing to ask the important obvious questions when it will matter. It is really part of his schtick to assume the best and be wrong. (Example: Gee, you just met an adventuring party that has a cleric who worships Loki. Any questions? Not thinking this through and trying to figure out its implications almost caused a TPK.)

[martianmister]

Well, when I put forth the Vampire Hypothesis, I always get the response "but Malack is thinking about having hatchlings!" Well, no, he never says that. And that conversation more in my favor than the opposite, if it is relevant to anything at all.

He thinks adoption is not for him because of the lack of special bond. How is that line makes sense in your theory?

[Snails]

He thinks adoption is not for him because of the lack of special bond. How is that line makes sense in your theory?

Vampires also have a special bond with their "family" (vampire spawn). In fact, it is arguably much more powerful and much more special than a bond merely from a blood relationship.


Create Spawn (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/vampire.htm) (Su)

A humanoid or monstrous humanoid slain by a vampire’s energy drain rises as a vampire spawn 1d4 days after burial.

If the vampire instead drains the victim’s Constitution to 0 or lower, the victim returns as a spawn if it had 4 or less HD and as a vampire if it had 5 or more HD. In either case, the new vampire or spawn is under the command of the vampire that created it and remains enslaved until its master’s destruction. At any given time a vampire may have enslaved spawn totaling no more than twice its own Hit Dice; any spawn it creates that would exceed this limit are created as free-willed vampires or vampire spawn. A vampire that is enslaved may create and enslave spawn of its own, so a master vampire can control a number of lesser vampires in this fashion. A vampire may voluntarily free an enslaved spawn in order to enslave a new spawn, but once freed, a vampire or vampire spawn cannot be enslaved again.

[Rougn]

All these theories revolve around everyone lying. That this is all Nale's grand plan is that his father and his ally are secretly working for him and that they are both lying to trap them.

Your reason for this is that Elan's father is a liar. But what does he gain from lying? Nothing. He will lose that extra glory he has from dying from his HERO of a son. He will allow his evil son to kill him or some random farmer to get a lucky kill.

Lying to Elan about all this gains him nothing but has a chance to lose a great story that will immortalize his name and face through out time. Why would he risk that? If a person lies it is to hide or gain something. A thief lies to protect their necks from the noose. Politicians lie to get more power and money and children lie out of fear or to get attention. Generally no one lies just to lie and no one will lie just to lose something. If a person said I am here to give *enter your name here* 10 million dollars would you lie and say that isnt you?

Not to mention he has done nothing to lead us to believe he is a liar everyone is acting like Haley and being over paranoid trying to piece together clues that might not even exist.

But while we throw around wild theories let me try one :P That isnt Elan's dad that is secretly V from the future in lizard form casting illusions with his mind to mess with everyone!

I dont mean to sound condescending but all the evidence points to them hating Nale because of what he did. There is no evidence saying they will betray them.

Now then about him being a vampire. It kinda make sense considering his 'diet' is so creepy that people eating unicorns will be scared. So what could he possible eat?

[martianmister]

Vampires also have a special bond with their "family" (vampire spawn). In fact, it is arguably much more powerful and much more special than a bond merely from a blood relationship.

Yes, but it doesn't explain the adoption part. Aren't these spawns technically "adopted children"?

[Ya Ta Hey!]

Actually, I'm almost hoping he does turn out to be an albino now, with some kind of psionic multiclass.

[Bluepaw]

It's been pointed out that Malack walked in broad daylight, so him being a vampire is unlikely

Has anyone checked for sparkles?

[theNater]

Sure. But it is a fun little bit of "possible foreshadowing".
It's one heck of a stretch to tie that to vampirism. Even if it is foreshadowing that Malack will kill Belkar(which is by no means certain), Malack is a high enough level cleric to kill Belkar without needing to be a vampire.

Well, when I put forth the Vampire Hypothesis, I always get the response "but Malack is thinking about having hatchlings!" Well, no, he never says that. And that conversation more in my favor than the opposite, if it is relevant to anything at all.
But we've got no reason to believe it's relevant to anything at all. That's my point.

The "special diet" is a bizarre detail to drop. Malack could have simply said that Tarquin banquet does not suit him, and leave it at that.
It's only a bizarre detail to drop if it's not true. In my experience, people with food restrictions are generally not shy about it. Indeed, they tend to preemptively answer the obvious next question when turning down food. "No thanks, allergies" or what have you.

It is also very peculiar for someone with an actual delicate constitution to survive into higher levels when starting out as an adventurer. That hints that Malack may be using a euphemism.
It's less peculiar when you realize there is likely some random element to stats. Very few players will attempt to play a character with a low Con score because it's so risky, but Malack doesn't have the option of rerolling or discarding his character in favor of another one. More people trying to adventure with low Con inevitably results in more people successfully adventuring with low Con.

Furthermore, contrary to how most people read it, Malack never denies the possibility that he is evil. He merely points out, quite correctly, that people misunderstand the true nature of his patron (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0737.html) and his patron's mistress.
So, he's hiding something because he didn't explicitly label himself non-evil? I'm fairly sure Durkon hasn't mentioned that he's good; is he hiding that fact from Malack?

I would further note that Durkon has a track record of habitually failing to ask the important obvious questions when it will matter. It is really part of his schtick to assume the best and be wrong. (Example: Gee, you just met an adventuring party that has a cleric who worships Loki. Any questions? Not thinking this through and trying to figure out its implications almost caused a TPK.)
Durkon also correctly concluded that Miko was not evil. We can't use Durkon's optimism as evidence of evil.

[theNater]

Now then about him being a vampire. It kinda make sense considering his 'diet' is so creepy that people eating unicorns will be scared. So what could he possible eat?
No one in the comic has suggested that it's creepy or that it would scare the others. If it's strong-smelling(as is often the case of medicinal herbs), that would be plenty of reason not to serve it in a room with people trying to savor their food.

[Snails]

Feel free to believe things I suspect are hints are not hints.

When someone says "Malack cannot possibly be undead because he wants to have children" I am going to point out that we do not know that.

When someone says "Malack cannot be evil because he said he was neutral" I am going to point out that Malack said nothing of the kind.

When someone says "Malack seems like a friendly guy, so he cannot be evil or undead", well, that is just balderdash. Tarquin is one of the most vicious characters in the OotSverse and he is disarmingly charming always.

When someone says "the god of death would hate undead," well, I personally agree. But we would be in the minority, and authors of WotC and TSR products tend to think otherwise. Thus it would be illogical to assume that the OotSverse god of death hates undead.

My undeath hypothesis is but a hypothesis. IMO there is a large pile of weak circumstantial evidence pointing in that direction. Most the "proof" that my hypothesis is wrong is not proof at all, and obviously so under examination. As I already said, Malack has been seen outdoors in broad daylight -- interpret that how you will.

[martianmister]

When someone says "Malack cannot possibly be undead because he wants to have children" I am going to point out that we do not know that.

Ahem......


Yes, but it doesn't explain the adoption part. Aren't these spawns technically "adopted children"?

[Snails]

Are vampire spawn adopted children of a vampire, or actual children of a vampire, from the vampire's point of view? I do not see how either answer is obviously more correct.

And it gets more complicated because higher HD creature killed with blood drain by a vampire become full fledged vampire with a special bond with their creator. Is that what Malack is talking about? Finding someone of sufficient HD who is interesting enough to spend eternity with?

[martianmister]

Are vampire spawn adopted children of a vampire, or actual children of a vampire, from the vampire's point of view? I do not see how either answer is obviously more correct.

Then, from a vampire's point of view, what are the differences between his own progeny, adopted children and vampire spawns? And why he didn't try to make any more spawns since then? Why is he agaist the adoption?

[Ya Ta Hey!]

This is how I think a day in the Life of Minister Malack goes:


1. Wakes up from coffin ("Blauh!")

2. Puts on sunblock or solar protection of choice

3. First blood (ba-dum, tish!). For reasons known only to Malack, most victims are not candidates for undeath. Therefore, he disposes of these corpses by burning them in the man-sized pyre to Nergal/Ereshkegal before they reincarnate. This final destruction of a corpse constitutes an offering to the death gods.

4. Paperwork. Dum-de-doo.

5. Study.

6. Meetings and receptions.

7. A second feeding, usually followed by another burnt offering.

***


If Malack really is a vampire who's goal is to create others, he might be looking for two things in his candidates:


1. Willingness. Heck, he might even see vampirism as a form of conversion/ordinance, and its acolytes that he feeds on. The acolytes did look pretty grim during that burnt offering--maybe that was one of their friends.

2. 5+ hit die. If you can only control so many children, you might as well make them all count and not waste time with a mere Spawn.


Whatever the case, it sounds like he goes to a lot of trouble to create vampires (if thats the case), and it makes sense for him to be mad at Nale for killing three.

It also kind of explains his interest in Durkon--I mean, here is a dwarf who clearly understands devotion, and might be swayed over to Nergal/Ereshkegal with the proper outreach and discussion. He also has the Hit Dice to become a full vampire.

My prediction is that he will wait until Durkon takes off the holy symbol, ask to visit, attempt to energy drain him to death but fail. Circumstances will make him settle for Belkar instead ("Hell yeah!" :belkar:). Belkar will be a vampire and love it for a little bit, and then get staked. Or burnt. Or drowned. Or garlicked. Or cast in a movie.

[snikrept]

The other circumstantial evidence that Malack is not a vampire is that the comic usually tends to explode tropes rather than re-use them, and "I don't drink.... wine" is as old as Bram Stoker as far as identifying a vampire.


I still think Malack has a standing refusal to dine with Tarquin because he's known Tarquin for years and knows the kind of repugnant, horrible things that Tarquin eats!

EDIT put another way, if we discovered in the next strip that Malack actually drinks human blood, that would be not as horrible as the kind of food we've already seen Tarquin eat, and Tarquin is not undead.

[TheMac04]

When did the "vampire spawn=children" conclusion show up? How does that even...yeah, nevermind. Okay, sure.

[raymundo]

EDIT put another way, if we discovered in the next strip that Malack actually drinks human blood, that would be not as horrible as the kind of food we've already seen Tarquin eat, and Tarquin is not undead.

What was so horrible about the stuff Tarquin had for the banquet? Guess it's some kind of society-bias.. Some people might find serving dog meat equally horrible.

[hamishspence]

Maybe because eating the flesh of sentient beings seems a little iffy to people?

[raymundo]

Phoenixes, Pegasi.. Well, considering we lack real-life beings of similar sentientness it probably boils down to the question if eating them is more like eating other humans or like eating intelligent animals.

Is there any mention of eating habits in the rule books or other official D&D sources? Elan, being good, calls the banquet "gross", but then again, this may just be his personal opinion. Good != cultural tolerance.

[North_Ranger]

Okay, time for the two cents...

Personally I find it hard to believe that Malack would be an undead. In terms of literary counterparts, he strikes me more as Raistlin instead of Dracula; a being blessed with great power of the divine (arcane for Razz), but cursed with physical weakness. Kilkil's not afraid the Minister will crack his skull open with his staff; he's afraid the Minister will blast him into oblivion with a single utterance of a spell.

I would venture a guess that Malack's likely something of an anomaly among lizardfolk. He strikes me as being somewhat taller and even lankier than the other lizardfolk, and his albinoism could very well be a result of some kind of ailment for which he must drink bloodwort tea and abide by a strict dietary regimen. One that, as stated before, is likely laced with medicinal herbs and counter-poisons in case someone tries to off him with a poisoned dish.

Another proof of Malack's status as a living being is for me the statement Tarquin made when confirming Elan as Elan, not Nale: he had a son, whom Nale killed. In the flashback when the Linear Guild is fighting Tarquin, the Empress and Malack, he appears as he is in the present: tall, gaunt, wearing black robes and deathly pale. I believe it is a fair assumption he would not have gone undead when he had a - presumably - young child to look after. Even if his son was an adult, I would think it unlikely that Papa Malack would have done that.

[snikrept]

A vital organ of a sapient creature ripped from its body as it is still alive? I'd call that worse than the blood of a sapient creature. Taking blood does not necessarily kill the creature.

Also in that the phoenix pate was served to demonstrate power and wealth rather than because it's necessary for survival, as blood is to a vampire.

[mrmcfatty]

here is something a little new to add. Being a high level and in high status he may have been poisoned, or it was attempted, and since then has decided to prepare his own meals. He may have a special diet, and didnt go because of that but also did not want to tell the guests "yea I don't eat here because someone poisoned it once. Have fun at dinner!"

[Snails]

here is something a little new to add. Being a high level and in high status he may have been poisoned, or it was attempted, and since then has decided to prepare his own meals. He may have a special diet, and didnt go because of that but also did not want to tell the guests "yea I don't eat here because someone poisoned it once. Have fun at dinner!"

High Fort saves, Detect Poison, Slow Poison, Neutralize Poison, Heroe's Feast. A prepared high-level cleric is all but immune.

[Rougn]

I had a few thoughts on the undead/vampire theory. I reread everything and he does fit the qualifications, humanoid...vampires are not picky it appears, but he shows no other signs of being a vampire. He cant be a vampire spawn because he is intelligent. Nor can he be a Savage Vampire. Persuasive Vampire seems like something he can pull of by the way he speaks. He is well liked by Durkon and V or at least nonviolent. Despite the fact he admitted to being sided with evil. The issue being however is that he can walk in daylight easily i believe someone made a sunscreen joke earlier. This reminded me of the Moonbane vampires and if I remember correctly they are only harmed by the light of a full moon.

The other vampires (Psychic Vampire, Swarmform Vampire) can not be proven one way or another until it is revealed in the comic strip. Sadly that means alot of speculations without much evidence. The reason for this is because unless you see him turn to a swarm all we know is he could be a vampire and until you see him drain the mental power we can not say he is a psychic vampire.

Now why do we believe he is a vampire: Its because he is a cleric of a death god and how pale he is. However sadly the main issue with this argument is sound. Lizards do not tan. Tanning is caused by radiation from the sun drying out the skin causing it to produce more of a certain cell, i do not remember which at this time, however being a lizard his skin is covered in scales which do not dry out.

Some lizards are just plain white. But it is alittle much to think The Giant knows lizards skin and normal color range. So lets assume he tans like a normal human. His a ex-adventuring cleric. His job now is helping the Elan's dad rule the world. He needs to study and read he is inside alot. He told Durkon already it is nice to talk to someone of intelligence and who has a strong religious view. ((Remember he has pretty much spent years with someone like Elan as the most intelligent person around)) and from the way he acted when Durkon was leaving for abit shows he was desperate for conversation.

So I assume he wasnt on the beach getting a tan. His whiteness can simply by caused by living in a library for hours on end.

Now on to the poison topic: I like it for maybe no other reason then its cool and makes sense to me. Yes he is a high lv cleric but what if he wasnt the sole target? If his children and him where poisoned by Nale for the turning battle. He used up his spells saving his kids and relied on his high save to protect himself. Nale made sure Malack didnt have the right spells that day by lying or tricking him. The poison had a lasting effect on Malack creating his medical issues but his kids didnt have the high save and died. But this too is unlikely but this would make a great story.

[mini_magician]

Ahem......

I haven't tried quoting before, hopefully i'm quoting the part that talks about undead and wanting to adopt, etc...

Tsukiko is weird, but here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0708.html) she says she's the "mommy." She isn't undead herself, but the idea of having undead "children" isn't impossible.

[Icedaemon]

Quoting works weird on this forum, in that one does not get the already quoted text that another has posted, unless I've missed a function somewhere.

[Gift Jeraff]

I can't believe this has never been linked in any "Malack = vampire" or "Why didn't Malack raise his children?" discussions, but I just found it in ThePhantasm's sig:
Evil characters are neither prohibited nor even discouraged from raising the dead in the OOTS universe—nor in any other D&D world of which I'm aware, unless they specifically serve a god of Death.Original post: *Major SoD Spoilers* (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4465010&postcount=551)

Although you could argue that being undead is not the same as raising the dead.

[Ya Ta Hey!]

I can't believe this has never been linked in any "Malack = vampire" or "Why didn't Malack raise his children?" discussions, but I just found it in ThePhantasm's sig:

Oh.

I guess that's the end of that. Carry on, then.

[Gryffon]

I can't believe this has never been linked in any "Malack = vampire" or "Why didn't Malack raise his children?" discussions, but I just found it in ThePhantasm's sig:Original post: *Major SoD Spoilers* (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4465010&postcount=551)

Although you could argue that being undead is not the same as raising the dead.

Actually, as much as I don't believe that Malack is undead, I believe you have misinterpreted the quote. In context, I believe he is saying that evil people can raise the dead, ie. the Raise Dead spell, bringing someone back to life, unless they worship a god of death, in which case, it is assumed their god does not wish them to bring a dead person back to life.

[Gift Jeraff]

Actually, as much as I don't believe that Malack is undead, I believe you have misinterpreted the quote. In context, I believe he is saying that evil people can raise the dead, ie. the Raise Dead spell, bringing someone back to life, unless they worship a god of death, in which case, it is assumed their god does not wish them to bring a dead person back to life.That's exactly what I meant. :smallconfused:

[Gryffon]

That's exactly what I meant. :smallconfused:

Ok, well...a god of death saying Raise Dead is a no no, might not say the same thing about Animate Dead, or the general creation of undead.

[The Succubus]

So Malack feeds on something so foul and disgusting it cannot be eaten in front of others?

I'm putting my money on coleslaw.

[Toofey]

It's been pointed out that Malack walked in broad daylight, so him being a vampire is unlikely


wearing a hooded cloak.

[Snails]

Ok, well...a god of death saying Raise Dead is a no no, might not say the same thing about Animate Dead, or the general creation of undead.

Personally, I would hope so. But IME enough writers of D&D material hired by WotC and TSR seem to think otherwise that it is not a good guess about the OotSverse.

[rewinn]

I wonder what he had for dinner, anyway?

I figured that he would turn out to be some kind of lizardfolk vampire, what with the bit about specialized diets that have to be eaten in private.

Perhaps he has a breeding pair of Fruit Pies and enjoy eating the young, fresh pies before they have a chance to get old a crusty. It's not a question of grossing people out so much as he just doesn't like to share!

[Ya Ta Hey!]

Well I do hope that cab arrives soon...

...because I CALLED IT!

[LadyEowyn]

Congratulations!

[Koo Rehtorb]

You go, girl!

[WindStruck]

*Insert condescending remark about how your feat was sheer luck and mundane because one with such intellect as mine couldn't have possibly foreseen it.*

[Ya Ta Hey!]

http://img.timeinc.net/time/daily/2007/0701/360_borat_lebanon0109.jpg

In all fairness, I didn't put two and two together about the Belkar thing, but I think this is a really cool development.

So now I've got to wonder, what does this do to Belkar's newfound investment in society? And moreover, what will the scholarly Malack think when he gets to know what kind of "son" he's adopted? He is looking for a connection after all.

I think maybe Belkar might find his calling in service to the gods of death. Either that or his cooperative facade will scour right off in the face of being told what to do.

[Mutant Sheep]

This is... A FREAKY freaky piece of thread necromancy. And that's not even counting the vampire part.:smallamused:

*demands bragging rights for saying that Ian was Haley's dad, Tarquin was Elan's, and that The Cleric of Loki was Higalya (hey, she mighta been polymorphed!). Oh, and O-Chul is going to *insert thing*

[Onyavar]

I reread the whole thread by now (read it when it was new, too!). It is REALLY EXTREMELY CREEPY to see all those people arguing against something that turned out to be exactly the truth...

like malack killing belkar, being a vampire, wanting to convert durkon...

[nephilia]

Did anybody noticed how malack's eye turned from pink-albino-like to blood red in the end scene?
Vampire is my bet!!!

[Tragak]

*Insert condescending remark about how your feat was sheer luck and mundane because one with such intellect as mine couldn't have possibly foreseen it.*

Ooh, surprise burn!

[Ya Ta Hey!]

Oh, and O-Chul is going to insert thing

He has to solve a puzzle dungeon?

That is truly a cruel fate...


I reread the whole thread by now (read it when it was new, too!). It is REALLY EXTREMELY CREEPY to see all those people arguing against something that turned out to be exactly the truth...



I should have demanded bets.

Well, that's the beauty of OOTS--its complex without being convoluted. Complex enough that the story always has multiple interpretations at any given juncture, but still grounded enough that the story is fundamentally about people (of all species), rather than being a story about the plot.

[The Giant]

OK, bragging aside, please don't do thread necromancy from 2011.

Thread locked.