View Full Version : This One Paladin (And a Guard)
MoonCat
2011-08-05, 06:08 PM
So, when Roy is heading up the mountain after he dies (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0493.html), we see two people from Azure City going up as well. One of the is even recognizable from here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0447.html), standing in front of the throne. But I thought these two were worshipers of the Southern Gods, and went up on the other side of the mountain. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0486.html) Am I missing something?
Absol197
2011-08-05, 06:11 PM
So, when Roy is heading up the mountain after he dies (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0493.html), we see two people from Azure City going up as well. One of the is even recognizable from here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0447.html), standing in front of the throne. But I thought these two were worshipers of the Southern Gods, and went up on the other side of the mountain. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0486.html) Am I missing something?
Eugene says that the Southerners get processed on the other side of the mountain, not that they have to climb up that side of the mountain. Also, how do we know Roy was climbing straight up the mountain? Perhaps he was climbing in a spiral, finding the easiest path, and that got him near some of the Southerners.
super dark33
2011-08-05, 06:13 PM
They are judged at the outer side, maybe they all enter at only on pair of golden gates and climb the mountain at the same place.
EDIT:i just got swordsage'd
MoonCat
2011-08-05, 06:14 PM
Eugene says that the Southerners get processed on the other side of the mountain, not that they have to climb up that side of the mountain. Also, how do we know Roy was climbing straight up the mountain? Perhaps he was climbing in a spiral, finding the easiest path, and that got him near some of the Southerners.
Wouldn't there have been more of them then? It's not like the paladin was the first casualty of the battle, so by then them mountain should have been swarming with them.
Hiro Protagonest
2011-08-05, 06:16 PM
Wouldn't there have been more of them then? It's not like the paladin was the first casualty of the battle, so by then them mountain should have been swarming with them.
Would you have liked to see 20+ panels of people climbing faster than Roy?
Wouldn't there have been more of them then? It's not like the paladin was the first casualty of the battle, so by then them mountain should have been swarming with them.
Roy could have been climbing for weeks at that point. So the disparity between climbing speeds would be pretty evident. Also, even in a good kingdom, most people usually lean towards neutral.
MoonCat
2011-08-05, 06:24 PM
Would you have liked to see 20+ panels of people climbing faster than Roy?
Why would they be faster?
Roy could have been climbing for weeks at that point. So the disparity between climbing speeds would be pretty evident. Also, even in a good kingdom, most people usually lean towards neutral.
The paladins wouldn't be Neutral.
Why would they be faster?
The paladins wouldn't be Neutral.
In a fifty yard dash, a group of twenty professional runners will be fairly close at the end regardless of skill differences. But in a 10 mile run, the degree of difference can be minutes rather than fractions of seconds. With a climb that takes week,s even if Roy is just barely faster then others or others are just barely faster then Roy that difference would become pretty pronounced.
No, you are right, they wouldn't. But the Paladins are a pretty low percentage of the army compared to normal soldiers.
Hiro Protagonest
2011-08-05, 06:36 PM
Why would they be faster?.
They're not all getting in at the same time, and the ones shown were climbing past him.
The Pilgrim
2011-08-05, 06:39 PM
Also, even in a good kingdom, most people usually lean towards neutral.
True. But since 1) most of the civvies were evacuated before the battle, 2) almost all of the nobles ran away with their household troops, and 3) good-aligned people tend to be too dumb to flee (as shown here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0452.html))... it's reasonable to think that the percentage of good-aligned people among the azurite casualties would be well above-average.
Anyway it was shown in-comic that the gatekeepers at the southern side of Celestia had quite a long queue of good-aligned azurites to process, here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0486.html).
True. But since most of the civvies were evacuated before the battle, and almost all of the nobles ran away with their household troops, it's reasonable to think that the percentage of good-aligned people among the azurite casualties would be well above-average.
Anyway it was shown in-comic that the gatekeepers at the southern side of Celestia had quite a long queue of good-aligned azurites to process, here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0486.html).
Won't argue on any of those points. But a LN soldier with a decent ethical code would probably stay and do his job. (Though he would likely be one of the one's that ran away when things got completely hopeless.)
FujinAkari
2011-08-05, 07:51 PM
...
Because those two weren't southerners and are from the North, same as Roy. That's why they are climbing PAST Roy, Roy was already judged by the time they died and got to the mountain.
Blisstake
2011-08-05, 07:58 PM
Wouldn't there have been more of them then? It's not like the paladin was the first casualty of the battle, so by then them mountain should have been swarming with them.
It's a mountain of incredible proportions that it takes months to climb. It definitely makes sense that you wouldn't see many people at any given spot. Especially since they don't all necesarily climb the same way (different speeds/different paths)
MoonCat
2011-08-05, 08:13 PM
...
Because those two weren't southerners and are from the North, same as Roy. That's why they are climbing PAST Roy, Roy was already judged by the time they died and got to the mountain.
Why would a Northerner be part of the Sapphire Guard, let alone be part of Azure City's army? Additionally, I don't think anyone outside of the Southern Continent has been seen with that skin color in OoTS world.
martianmister
2011-08-05, 08:23 PM
...
Because those two weren't southerners and are from the North, same as Roy.
Sorry but that doesn't make any sense. :smallconfused:
brionl
2011-08-05, 08:23 PM
And I thought this was going to be a joke.
"This one paladin (and a guard) walk into a bar. The Thief makes a reflex save and takes no damage."
FujinAkari
2011-08-05, 10:22 PM
Why would a Northerner be part of the Sapphire Guard, let alone be part of Azure City's army? Additionally, I don't think anyone outside of the Southern Continent has been seen with that skin color in OoTS world.
Because people, on occasion, move?
Seriously, this isn't a new concept. Neither Durkon nor Vaarsuvius are in their homelands and, in V's case, he lived away for -years- before he became an adventurer.
MoonCat
2011-08-05, 10:25 PM
Because people, on occasion, move?
Seriously, this isn't a new concept. Neither Durkon nor Vaarsuvius are in their homelands and, in V's case, he lived away for -years- before he became an adventurer.
If the paladin moved, why was he in the throne room earlier that day? If the guard had moved, why was he still in Azurite uniform?
Gift Jeraff
2011-08-05, 10:30 PM
Because people, on occasion, move?Huh? It's based on which pantheon they worship, and we know the bandana guy worships the Twelve Gods because he's a member of the Sapphire Guard. And the soldier/guard probably worships the Twelve Gods based on his dialogue with his archon.
Shades of Gray
2011-08-05, 10:34 PM
Your appearance in the afterlife is based on the perception of yourself. He could be a northerner that perceives himself as a southerner.
We have seen a Weaboo in the afterlife here.
Mutant Sheep
2011-08-05, 11:58 PM
True. But since 1) most of the civvies were evacuated before the battle, 2) almost all of the nobles ran away with their household troops, and 3) good-aligned people tend to be too dumb to flee (as shown here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0452.html))... it's reasonable to think that the percentage of good-aligned people among the azurite casualties would be well above-average.
Anyway it was shown in-comic that the gatekeepers at the southern side of Celestia had quite a long queue of good-aligned azurites to process, here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0486.html).
Why'd you have to link that comic.:smallfrown: It always makes me sad, and for me, is one of the defining moments for V.(And the "hope you choke on your goddamn useless magic)
Were we seeing everything around Roy, or were we seeing only that part of the afterlife that Roy was experiencing? On a vast mountain of unimaginable size, over a period of time that stretched weeks, with Roy focused on his own progress and his Archon, perhaps thousands of others climbed around Roy and he simply wasn't able to perceive them - so neither did we.
Chuck Peirce
2011-08-06, 01:20 AM
It's a mountain of incredible proportions that it takes months to climb. It definitely makes sense that you wouldn't see many people at any given spot. Especially since they don't all necesarily climb the same way (different speeds/different paths)
^^ This. Plus, it's established that the passage of time is tricky in the afterlife.
And if that explanation won't satisfy, then a wizard did it. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AWizardDidIt)
And I thought this was going to be a joke.
"This one paladin (and a guard) walk into a bar. The Thief makes a reflex save and takes no damage."
Brion wins this thread; I don't know why I'm even bothering to post.
factotum
2011-08-06, 02:05 AM
Because people, on occasion, move?
Seriously, this isn't a new concept. Neither Durkon nor Vaarsuvius are in their homelands and, in V's case, he lived away for -years- before he became an adventurer.
Except Eugene specifically said that Roy was the only northerner to die in the battle, and there was nobody else waiting to be processed on Roy's side of the mountain...
Rougn
2011-08-06, 04:07 AM
Maybe they where born else where? They might have joined as paladins but kept worshipping the gods of there childhood. I don't think the requirements of being a paladin states you have to worship the same gods as your master but I have been wrong more times then not recently xD.
FujinAkari
2011-08-06, 05:19 AM
Except Eugene specifically said that Roy was the only northerner to die in the battle, and there was nobody else waiting to be processed on Roy's side of the mountain...
Eugene said that BEFORE the battle inside Azure City, the two people in question hadn't died yet.
That said, I misremembered it is by your Pantheon, I thought it was just your birthplace, so I don't think my answer is right, but Eugene's comments are easily ignored in this instance :)
factotum
2011-08-06, 06:57 AM
Eugene said that BEFORE the battle inside Azure City, the two people in question hadn't died yet.
Er, what? :smallconfused: He said it in strip #486, which was after the battle was over (Xykon cast Cloister in #484).
Eugene said that BEFORE the battle inside Azure City, the two people in question hadn't died yet.
One of whom responded to "Eye of the Tiger!" with, "But I was born under the sign of Pig." No, that's not a Northerner.
FujinAkari
2011-08-06, 01:39 PM
Er, what? :smallconfused: He said it in strip #486, which was after the battle was over (Xykon cast Cloister in #484).
But Roy died way back in #443 and we don't know how long it takes to get to the afterlife (we do know it takes some time) so we don't know when the souls of the soldiers SHOULD be getting there. We know the Paladin died significantly after Roy and have no way of knowing when the Soldier died.
One of whom responded to "Eye of the Tiger!" with, "But I was born under the sign of Pig." No, that's not a Northerner.
That said, I misremembered it is by your Pantheon, I thought it was just your birthplace, so I don't think my answer is right, but Eugene's comments are easily ignored in this instance :)
... what about my response where I admit being wrong makes you think 'Oh! I need to argue with her because she's wrong!'
MoonCat
2011-08-06, 01:44 PM
I need to argue with her because she's wrong!'
Sorry to be off topic, but I just realized you were a girl FujinAkari. Weird how that works, isn't it?
zimmerwald1915
2011-08-06, 01:46 PM
most people usually lean towards neutral.
Humans tend toward no particular alignment, not even neutral.
hamishspence
2011-08-06, 01:55 PM
When combined with humans being in the TN alignment slot in the PHB chart, showing various races, monsters, and occasionally classes, and the "typical" alignment- this may mean that while more humans are TN than any other alignment- not enough humans are TN, for it to be an "alignment tendency".
FujinAkari
2011-08-06, 02:06 PM
Sorry to be off topic, but I just realized you were a girl FujinAkari. Weird how that works, isn't it?
Lol! Ooops, you're right, I don't usually reference that at all, because this is the internet and people act all WEIRD if your a girl on the internet :P
factotum
2011-08-06, 02:08 PM
We know the Paladin died significantly after Roy and have no way of knowing when the Soldier died.
I don't think we know either. As already pointed out, there was a long queue of people being processed on the Southern side of the mountain, so someone who died before Roy could easily have taken longer than he did to get processed and end up climbing the mountain after him.
Another thing occurs to me: we don't actually know if the people we saw in those panels were overtaking Roy, or if he was overtaking them!
I don't think we know either. As already pointed out, there was a long queue of people being processed on the Southern side of the mountain, so someone who died before Roy could easily have taken longer than he did to get processed and end up climbing the mountain after him.
Another thing occurs to me: we don't actually know if the people we saw in those panels were overtaking Roy, or if he was overtaking them!
Also, keep in mind that just because these 2 guys weren't among the first to die (we know that the paladins wasn't, but we have no real idea about the other guy), that doesn't mean that they weren't among the first to get processed. Among other things, remember that if either had died before, they would have gotten expedited treatment.
archon_huskie
2011-08-06, 06:19 PM
Oh for crying out loud!
It is the afterlife. We don't know how long any of those people have been dead. Not even Roy given how time passes in the afterlife. We also don't know far up the mountain that panel is.
That southerner you see. That could be a guy who died 800 years ago and is only now deciding to leave the tavern of infinite one night stands.
That paladin is climbing up the north side to visit a halfling adventurer he met in the Northern Lands 3 years ago.
There's infinite explanations and you're fixating on the complicated "he's on the nothern side because he was born a Northerner but moved to the Southern lands which is why he's in Southern Armor, but he worships Southern Gods now so his lantern archon is blue, but he's on the Northside because Eugene really had no way of knowing with complete certainty that Roy was the only Northerner who died in that battle," explanation.
MoonCat
2011-08-06, 06:40 PM
Oh for crying out loud!
It is the afterlife. We don't know how long any of those people have been dead. Not even Roy given how time passes in the afterlife. We also don't know far up the mountain that panel is.
Yes, we do. For at least one of them, we see him alive on the same day (or somewhat afterward, considering the time skip, depending on how high up the mountain he was at the time.) I suggest you look at the strips provided in my OP for Word-of-God verification.
That southerner you see. That could be a guy who died 800 years ago and is only now deciding to leave the tavern of infinite one night stands.
That paladin is climbing up the north side to visit a halfling adventurer he met in the Northern Lands 3 years ago.
Admittedly, that could be true, the army may not have changed their uniform in 800 years, although frankly, I doubt it.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought they couldn't travel between heavens. :smallconfused:
There's infinite explanations and you're fixating on the complicated "he's on the nothern side because he was born a Northerner but moved to the Southern lands which is why he's in Southern Armor, but he worships Southern Gods now so his lantern archon is blue, but he's on the Northside because Eugene really had no way of knowing with complete certainty that Roy was the only Northerner who died in that battle," explanation.
How exactly am I "fixating" on that one explanation? I haven't even said I agree with it.
rewinn
2011-08-06, 08:16 PM
And I thought this was going to be a joke.
"This one paladin (and a guard) walk into a bar. The Thief makes a reflex save and takes no damage."
And the bartender says, "What are you having?"
The Thief: "Mix me a Lock Pick. It's like a screwdriver but with a twist".
The Guard: "Beefeaters. Because, you know, I'm a guard. Like the Beefeaters."
Paladin: "Vodka. Straight!"
Bartender: "Well, that can be kind of harsh. Would you like me to soften it with a little soda or at least some ice?"
Paladin: "No impurities! No compromises!"
Bartender: "OK, it's your funeral. What kind of vodka?"
Paladin: "Can there be any question? It must be Absolut!"
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