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Piedmon_Sama
2006-06-06, 04:06 AM
I have an idea: let's all talk about hatreds that we in absolutely can no way justify with logic or reasonability, but are absolutely valid. In a subjective kinda way.

Like.... Sorcerers. I hate Sorcerers. Why? They're such pompous little bastards. "Lol, I never had to work a day in my life for my magic, and my high CHA = teh chix!1" Especially you, Hennet. Yeah, I'm looking at you... decked out in Hot Topic's finest, twiddling around that pansy green fire like it's a man's weapon, smirking that CHA 15+ smirk. Just you wait, you'll get yours...

Also: Bards. Perfectly solid class, but I will NEVER be able to swallow the image of a man playing a fiddle in the middle of a heated battle. I don't care if he's Hans Zimmer and he's got a 50 piece orchestra behind him playing the theme song to Gladiator. IT'S STUPID. Besides, when I was thirteen a stupid BARD wrecked our whole campaign by trying to placate an evil God with the magical conche shell we were trying to keep from it. That left no lasting bitterness, I promise!

And that's me. Sort of. There's more, but I don't want to keep you up all night. How about ya'll?

The_Logic_Ninja
2006-06-06, 04:09 AM
Oversized weapons.

What the HELL people, it's NOT COOL, Final Fantasy 7 is OVER. Get over it. Argh.

alec
2006-06-06, 04:30 AM
Elves. I hate those god-damned pansie elves and their "better-than-you" attitude. Plus, one of the guys in my gaming groups always plays elves, and they share his most noteable trait, their bloody annoying.

Umbilical_Lotus
2006-06-06, 04:34 AM
Funny, I hate wizards, what with their disdain of actually doing anything that might get them dirty and I'm-so-superior-to-you high INT and all spellcaster prestige classes geared to them (hey, dorkbutts, us sorcies got sliiiightly less use for metamagic feats than you do. Howsabout we get a similar bonus feat list with other spellcaster-friendly feats on it?).

Also, I hate giant spiders. I like using other giant insects, but spiders just seem a damn cop-out. Them and undead when used for scare factor. Oh no a ghoul is rising from its tomb and there are giant spiders and necromancy and are you afraid yet?

Goff
2006-06-06, 04:48 AM
Monks.
Martial artist stuff I can swallow, but I cannot stand the ridiculous magical stuff they get. Just no. The class has never made any kind of sense to me in a party based system, they seem to be built just survive, regardless of the rest of the party's fate. I just can't stand them.

Altair_the_Vexed
2006-06-06, 04:55 AM
Wish. I took it out of my game.

BTW - Piedmon_Sama, I denied Sorcerers access to any of the named spells, like Bigby's This and Modenkainen's That. And I made them socially considered failures and drop-outs, unlike the prestige of being a wizard, being a sorcerer works against you, so that CHA bonus only just negates the stigma.

If they're not going to study they can suffer a little.

Niasen
2006-06-06, 04:59 AM
HUMANS... ;D

actually, what I really hate is them Smarmy little Arcane spellcasters and ever class that absolutely REFUSES to rely its strength, dexterity, or Constitution modifier once in a while. Every time a smug mage teleports, uses a fireball instead of fighting, or does something just to show off, I want to take one of my fighters metal plated boots and just make a field goal SOOOO hard onto there pansy little robe wearing....GRRRR!!! I HATE those spellcasters with a PASSION, I'm planning on making characters who are going to be the anti-thema to Arcane spellcasting and believe it is against his gods work or something and kill on sight when he see's someone cast like that GOD I HATE THEMS TO PIECES I COULD ((this is the FCAA, this portion of the post was censored due to extreme violence, swearing, crude refrences...and quite frankly because it made even Hannibal lector queasy to his stomach, thank you for reading this sick S.O.B.'s whining post, have a nice day :)))!!!!!!!.....ok I feel better now.

Krugg
2006-06-06, 05:09 AM
HUMANS... ;D

actually, what I really hate is them Smarmy little Arcane spellcasters and ever class that absolutely REFUSES to rely its strength, dexterity, or Constitution modifier once in a while. Every time a smug mage teleports, uses a fireball instead of fighting, or does something just to show off, I want to take one of my fighters metal plated boots and just make a field goal SOOOO hard onto there pansy little robe wearing....GRRRR!!! I HATE those spellcasters with a PASSION, I'm planning on making characters who are going to be the anti-thema to Arcane spellcasting and believe it is against his gods work or something and kill on sight when he see's someone cast like that GOD I HATE THEMS TO PIECES I COULD ((this is the FCAA, this portion of the post was censored due to extreme violence, swearing, crude refrences...and quite frankly because it made even Hannibal lector queasy to his stomach, thank you for reading this sick S.O.B.'s whining post, have a nice day :)))!!!!!!!.....ok I feel better now.

I agree completely!
Wizards and Elves are the things my Half Orc Barbarian throws through walls. Especially Elven Wizards.
I also hate undead, because they're the only things I ever get threats on - and I use a x3 crit weapon!!! Undead are also a bloody pest (the weak ones like zombies and skeletons)

Maryring
2006-06-06, 06:19 AM
This sounds like fun ;D

Barbarians: For once I'd like to actually try diplomacy before these fools become angry and begin to wave their great axes around.

Bards: You travel around in dungeons and SING to people. How stupid is that?

Cleric: Can you please choose a god or goddess and follow his or her teachings for ONCE?

Druid: Tree hugging hippies. *grumble* Can't you stand up for something, coward?

Fighter: Some times you can't use your sword to solve a problem, and that is when the Fighter tries to use a sword to solve a problem.

Monk: Open your eyes and look into the world. There are others in the world than you and your petty self-everything.

Paladin: Someone has to look where he sits. Get that class feature out this instant.

Ranger: There is a life outside the forest you know.

Rogue: Someone please catch this little thief.

Rouge: She stole make up.

Sorcerer: Lazy bastards (the technical term) with way too much of an ego.

Wizard: Go out. Get some excersize. Do something else than sitting over your musty tomes all day.

Humans: There is too many of them. And too many of them are evil. Get them away from me please.

Elves: Aloof, selfish and whiny hippies. Even worse than the Druids. Don't get me started on the elven druids.

Dwarves: Alcoholic, gruff neanderthals. Brush your teeth and get some manners and I MIGHT not run in the opposite direction.

Gnomes: Small and untrustworthy. See Halfling.

Halfling: Small and untrustworthy. See Gnomes.


(I'm not good at hate. :-[ )

squishycube
2006-06-06, 06:24 AM
I have a very rational hatred:

Subraces! AARGH I HATE THEM SO MUCH. They are the bane of DM's and roleplayers everywhere. They make munchkins wet their pants.
Just now I read a thread about someone's build and one of the pixies mentioned "why not play a subrace". Great idea, why not chop your DM's head of straight away.

Soniku
2006-06-06, 07:10 AM
Wah, I like all the things you guys dislike :-X


Subraces! AARGH I HATE THEM SO MUCH.

Am I the only GM who likes them or something?


Ooh, I need a hatred too... how about... talking squirrels as characters. It has happened. Three times.

Dhavaer
2006-06-06, 07:14 AM
Spellthieves. This should have been a PrC, if it had to exist at all.

cuibono_219
2006-06-06, 08:24 AM
I absolutely hate divine casters and elves. Just can't stand them.

Sergeantbrother
2006-06-06, 08:44 AM
I hate the idea of true neutral being a belief in balance between good and evil such that the character feels motivated to fight which ever is more successful. I swear, the next time I hear somebody say that he or she will get a d4 up the nose.

RoboticSheeple
2006-06-06, 09:25 AM
People that whine about their optional recreational events, such as D&D.
::)

Renloth
2006-06-06, 09:32 AM
Honestly, I like most of this stuff too. It's all in how you play it, and that seems to be the general theme here.

I personally have a Sorcerer who has studied for most of his life to be able to use magic.

Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick
2006-06-06, 09:32 AM
People whose real-life alignment is lawful neutral.
Seriously. I cannot stand long, drawn-out arguments wherein neither side is correct, or incorrect, and neither side will concede or work together.
Abstaining from such madness is mandatory in any game I run.
I dunno if that's justifiable or not. I think so. Some people seem to disagree.
*shrug*

Catch
2006-06-06, 09:38 AM
Gishes. Look, either you can swing a sword, or you can toss around fireballs. Not both. For some reason, every player I come across wants a d10 hit die, full BAB and full caster progression. Plus 10 levels of Rainbow Servant. And like eight other one level dips.

And all the wizard haters. "But I don't like preparing spells..." Yeah? Have fun with your full-round metamagic.

Thomas
2006-06-06, 09:40 AM
I just can't stand people who whine about people whining in a humorous thread that's supposed to be about people whining...

ShadowYRM
2006-06-06, 09:41 AM
In game ability/spell?

Polymorph spells. They slow the game to a crawl, break balance, and create new problems with every new book release.

Race?

Probably elves... I don't like them.

Class?

Samurai class. Not only is it inferior to a middle-eastern flavored fighter, but also it fits less into most campaigns than any other class.

Monks don't HAVE to be tea-sipping, meditating, inner-peace geeks. They CAN be tough, trained... almost street-fighting types that contribute to a party with their tactical speed.

Samurai are just... I dunno... a weak way of locking your PC into a stereotype and crappy build.

Goff
2006-06-06, 09:50 AM
I just can't stand people who whine about people whining in a humorous thread that's supposed to be about people whining...

I second that.
As for monks, I don't dislike the flavour people use, I simply hate the class they use. It doesn't make any sense to me. Ahh... I love being able to fall back on irrational hatred when logic simply fails my arguement.

Guancyto
2006-06-06, 09:56 AM
Ex-Paladin/Blackguards.

The idea of a hero fallen from grace becoming the ultimate servant of darkness is, when you really think about it, pretty implausible and frankly it's difficult to pull off well. The idea of a former paladin hanging out with demons is just downright silly. But the worst part is that everyone seems so enamored of the idea (WotC is pretty bad in this regard). When really one in a few thousand fallen paladins ought to fall that far.

Dan_Hemmens
2006-06-06, 10:16 AM
I quite dig the Ex-Paladin Blackguard concept. What bugs me is that it's virtually impossible to achieve in-game.

"Ah! I have seen my true love cut down before my very eyes! I renounce you - Gods who I once followed - henceforth I shall follow the path of Darkness! Umm... once I go up a level ... and once I can stick enough points into Hide and Move Silently to qualify for the PrC..."

Scorpina
2006-06-06, 10:48 AM
Generally speaking I'm not enamoured of many of the new classes from the Complete... books or from the PHB2. They just seem superflous to requirements, and trying to fill niches that just aren't there.

Similarly, Psionics.

Although I've never actually used any of them, so couldn't really be said to 'hate' them per se.

Vorkosigan
2006-06-06, 11:17 AM
Dwarves. Or at least the way Dwarves are played. Normally, in the games I've seen, dwarves get played as short, tough humans, with no flavor. Even Elves seem to get played with more flair than dwarves. I would love to see someone play a dwarf with flavor beyond drinking a lot, being a meatshield, and affecting the perennial Scottish accent. I am sure that many people DO play dwarves that way, I've just never SEEN it. Can I play in your group? Please?

WampaX
2006-06-06, 11:28 AM
Almost none of these are "utterly irational"[sic] as you all seem to be giving good reasons why you hate them. ;)

Maybe the talking squirrels, though. no reasoning behind that, so good on ya for it.

Brickwall
2006-06-06, 11:34 AM
Gnome haters. People who hate gnomes even when they're given good flavor. Why? Because they have a racist's heart. I could easily point out 5 on this board. But I won't. Because otherwise they are tolerable people.

Size-ists!

Telonius
2006-06-06, 11:41 AM
Paladins. Just can't stand 'em. This is the one class I will never play.

Argent
2006-06-06, 11:46 AM
Cutesy anime-ish characters. I like my D&D gritty, darnitall, and having a talking, Medium-size squirrel running around, or a twelve-year-old character with big eyes and spiky purple hair... no thanks.

Monks, although not necessarily the monk as written in 3.5. This is a holdover from the old 1st edition monk, who was so broken it wasn't even funny; my irritation with that class has transcended the boundaries of time and good sense and still infects my view of the current monk class.

DoomBard
2006-06-06, 11:54 AM
Almost none of these are "utterly irational"[sic] as you all seem to be giving good reasons why you hate them. ;)

Maybe the talking squirrels, though. no reasoning behind that, so good on ya for it.

Well I hate moderaters that think they are funny and elves. This includes high elves, low elves, dark elves, light elves, wood elves, rock elves, sun elves, moon elves, stick elves, straw elves, fire elves, ice elves, wind elves, star elves, AND any variant of the above

Soniku
2006-06-06, 12:00 PM
Cutesy anime-ish characters. I like my D&D gritty, darnitall, and having a talking, Medium-size squirrel running around, or a twelve-year-old character with big eyes and spiky purple hair... no thanks.

Who says you can't have cutesy anime style along with gritty? My current world does indeed have a race of talking animals (but no more squirrels, they annoy me now) and suchlike, it suprises players how gritty it can get >=D muahaha...


Oh, and one I just remembered, I totally hate feudal japaneese style settings. I don't know why, theres nothing wrong with them that I can see, I just despise them so much I spontaniously avoid plot hooks just to avoid them

Saragos
2006-06-06, 12:31 PM
Gnomes and halflings. Especially gnomes. I didn't like halflings even when I read Tolkien, and gnomes, they're just cheap ripoffs of halflings. The current halflings are moderately better...at least they're not short, non-shoe wearing rednecks, but gnomes...they serve no purpose other than just being another short race. Blah!

Fhaolan
2006-06-06, 01:00 PM
Is this thread for irrational hatred of things, or for hatred of irrational things? :)

I'm not sure I 'hate' anything about D&D 3.x, although some things irritate me.

It irritates me that elves are the only core species (including MM) that has a Con penalty.

Fractional HD creatures irritate me. I think this is related to the above problem. If you need less that 1 full hit die, why not use a Con penalty? I don't understand...

The implementation of the Wizard/Sorcerer dichonomy irritates me. [This one is truely irrational on my part, I have no real reasons for it.]

The Bardic casting of spells that neither the Sorcerer nor Wizard are allowed, despite the fact that they're all technically Arcane irritates me. Either allow the Sorc/Wiz access to those spells, or stop calling the Bard an Arcane caster.

I'm sure I have a few more, but they escape my mind at the moment.

Munchy
2006-06-06, 01:11 PM
Bards : I have no issue with the mechanics or the abilities, I just hate the whole music link part. Magic through music just makes me want to vomit. I blame Tolkien, Broadway and cats. If I ever get my hands on a time machine they should watch out, because they are on my list of things to be erradicated from this world.

Paladins : Nothing wrong with the class, just how they are played. They are so irritating that they are just asking to be killed. If you want some PvP action ask for it outright instead of pissing off everyone else until someone (Usually me) snaps and kills off your PC.

DM enforced alignment changes : So what if I killed the damned paladin?!!! I only killed one and he was totally asking for it! 99% of my time I kill bad guys and monsters and disrupt their plots. I kill one stupid paladin in a fit of very, very understandable rage, and I switch from neutral to evil?! Argh!!!

Piedmon_Sama
2006-06-06, 01:20 PM
I used to utterly despise Elves for being in my twelve year-old mind a collection of pantywastes and wimps with pretensions of being somehow "superior" to everyone else. Then, I think around the ripe old age of fourteen, I learned to stop thinking in racial stereotypes. Now I save my irational hate for class stereotypes instead. =p

I'm more than a little ambivalent towards casters of all types. Clerics I'm more alright with, because they are at least generally up in front, in the trenches with the fighters. Wizards I respect because they had to study for years to learn their skills, but it still strikes me as too damn unheroic to just sit back and immolate your enemies from a distance, or to use telekenesis to evade a trap or divination to solve a riddle. To me it just feels like cheating.

I loathe the hippies. You know, the archetypical Druid and/or Elf who demands no intrusion ever be made upon the sacred bosom of mother nature.... newsflash: you live in a PRE-INDUSTRIAL SOCIETY. The forests aren't in danger! Calm down!

"Oriental Adventures" being a euphamism for "Japanese Adventures." Seriously, I can be a Yakuza or a Samurai or a Ninja, but what about wanting to be a Jannessarie or a Mameluke, a hun or a triad? Why do the Japanese have their own classes for everything but for some reason China seems to sport "fighters with an oriental flavor?"

The stereotypical Scottish dwarf-accent. "Aye laddie, I've yer back all the way, don't ye doubt!" In world after world, they have this. How come Elves can learn common perfectly but no Dwarf can ever overcome his accent? What Renaissance Fair nerd still thinks this is cool? Why do people bitch about all Elves being the same and then ignore this? Will the questions ever end?

Maryring
2006-06-06, 01:23 PM
What scares me is that it seems people think I actually meant what I said. I don't mean a single word, except what I said in paranthesis. Why would I play DnD if I didn't like the most important and everpresent parts of it?

And


Gnome haters. People who hate gnomes even when they're given good flavor. Why? Because they have a racist's heart. I could easily point out 5 on this board. But I won't. Because otherwise they are tolerable people.

Size-ists!

that sounds like prejudice to me, which is just a wider term regarding racism ;)

Alchemistmerlin
2006-06-06, 01:28 PM
I hate irrational hatreds.

I mean, I just can't understand it, there's something about people who decide to hold an opinion and not back it up in anyway that just PISSES me off. They don't examine their stance but they stand by it to the end.

It's like the lack of reason or logic sends me into some blind hatred for their sheer lack of care for logical discourse.

"Ooooh but it's my OPINION I'm allowed to have it!" BS! Not all opinions are equally valid. An examined or justified opinion is more valid than one that is just stated and not considered at all.

Piedmon_Sama
2006-06-06, 01:37 PM
So, you're defending Hennet?










































Because I will seriously go through you to get to him and not think twice. >_>

Psiwave
2006-06-06, 01:39 PM
I HATE people that believe their high charisma means they can be downright rude, arrogant and generally nasty and somehow all PC's and NPC's will still be forced to like them. you want to play a high cha? then act bloody charismatic you moron!

hang on, no, thats a perfectly rational hatred.


Socks? miserable bastards! all they do is sit on your feet and get smelly! why dont they just make the inside of shoes more comfortable?

Piedmon_Sama
2006-06-06, 01:50 PM
Cutesy anime-ish characters. *I like my D&D gritty, darnitall, and having a talking, Medium-size squirrel running around, or a twelve-year-old character with big eyes and spiky purple hair... no thanks.

This isn't directed at Argent specifically, but he did bring it to mine.... I have something of a counter/backlash-I.H for players and DMs who insist their world be as GRIM AND GRITTY as possible. Rusty swords! Boils and warts! Disease-spattered hovels and rotting teeth for everyone! Aren't you sick of life, yet!? Is it not all DEEP AND DRAMATIC!?

It's not so much any distaste for the "realer-than-real" style of atmosphere so much as it's the derision its proponents often hold for things that are "cartoony," or "animeish." I'd like to think that, as a roleplayer, I can get just as much pathos out of my Walking-Talking-Mushroom-Samurai as you can out of Sir Boors the totally historickal and accurayte Frankish Knight. It will just be maybe a little loopier.

There's an underlying, unspoken accusation that somehow it is much more manly to pretend you are in the real, really-really real Middle Ages, only there's Elves and stuff and for some reason crossbows aren't as good. Really, D&D (especially 3.x) isn't built for a "totally realistic" experience and trying to squeeze one out of it strikes me as a rather pointless endeavor.

DomarSaul
2006-06-06, 02:19 PM
Or, if not pointless, at least really difficult!

Argent
2006-06-06, 02:38 PM
This isn't directed at Argent specifically, but he did bring it to mine.... I have something of a counter/backlash-I.H for players and DMs who insist their world be as GRIM AND GRITTY as possible. *Rusty swords! *Boils and warts! *Disease-spattered hovels and rotting teeth for everyone! *Aren't you sick of life, yet!? *Is it not all DEEP AND DRAMATIC!?

It's not so much any distaste for the "realer-than-real" style of atmosphere so much as it's the derision its proponents often hold for things that are "cartoony," or "animeish." *I'd like to think that, as a roleplayer, I can get just as much pathos out of my Walking-Talking-Mushroom-Samurai as you can out of Sir Boors the totally historickal and accurayte Frankish Knight. *It will just be maybe a little loopier.

There's an underlying, unspoken accusation that somehow it is much more manly to pretend you are in the real, really-really real Middle Ages, only there's Elves and stuff and for some reason crossbows aren't as good. * Really, D&D (especially 3.x) isn't built for a "totally realistic" experience and trying to squeeze one out of it strikes me as a rather pointless endeavor. *

I hear what you're saying here, PS. And don't get me wrong -- an angsty campaign full of Bubonic Rot and missing teeth isn't my idea of a good time. I like the balance of realism exhibited in the D&D campaign settings; realistic enough to be able to apply most real-world logic, but not so realistic you'd be spending most of your time rooting for turnips to keep yourself alive.

I'm just anti-cutesy, is all. It's part of my personality. Overly cutesy or schmoopie stuff just turns me right off. (Kender being a perfect example.) I don't hold it against anyone who wants to play an anime-ish character in their campaigns -- hey, to each their own. It's just not my cup of tea.

Brickwall
2006-06-06, 02:39 PM
I HATE people that believe their high charisma means they can be downright rude, arrogant and generally nasty and somehow all PC's and NPC's will still be forced to like them. you want to play a high cha? then act bloody charismatic you moron!

Wait, you're acting like charismatic people in real life are nice. They are most certainly not. Talk to the three most popular people you know. Chances are, at least two of them will act like asses in one way or another. It's the celebrity syndrome. The more people like you, the more you feel you can be mean to others and they will be fine with it. Why? Well, they're always nice to you anyway. And the sad part is, many times this charismatic person will be right in his or her opinion. People will often be mindless sheep around charismatic people.

reorith
2006-06-06, 03:06 PM
gnomes
haflings
kenders
and i'm not sure why

OzymandiasVolt
2006-06-06, 03:14 PM
People who don"t know how to play an elf, gnome, halfling, half-orc, etc. without playing to some stupid stereotype that just makes everyone hate the race.

Seatbelt
2006-06-06, 03:15 PM
Elves. ***** elves retreated to the Grey Havens while man fought off the hordes of darkness. I'll play an elf, but I wont enjoy it! I'll also probably never play a Paladin. You get a horse? ..pfft. If I wanted a high BAB and poor spell progression I'd play a ranger. Burn in..heaven? you stupid Paladins.

MrNexx
2006-06-06, 03:41 PM
I hate bullywugs. Despise them for absolutely no good reason.

Krimm_Blackleaf
2006-06-06, 03:47 PM
I've never ever had a reason to, nor do i see ever having a reason for this, but i absolutely and will all of my heart HATE gnome PC's and NPC's
i just hate them so much...

Tyas
2006-06-06, 04:08 PM
Psionics. We hates them, my precious.

Time Travel when Time Travel is not your primary Hook. Sure if your game/story/show is about Time Travel.. if you are playing the Dr. Who RPG... fine. Quantum Leap. But when you get Time Travel BS in my Star Trek/B5/Robotech (end of the circle my sweet aunt petunia) I just don't like it, no sir.

The 'completely useless character'... you know the kind. Not the 'oh your character just doesn't quite measure up to Minmax over there' character, but 'I am Maxmin, I LIKE SQUIRRELS!', the character that is built from the ground up in such a way as to be as ineffectual as possible. Like the 14th level cleric/druid/bard/sorcerer I had in a group I was in. If there's something to fight: He can't hit it, he can't get anything past it's saving throws, he can't effectivly heal the damage it does, and he drops like a sack of flour. (did I mention he's an Orc?)

(I know someone will come out and build that such that it's uber powerful, I don't care, he was pathetic. And the player is the kind that WON'T ROLEPLAY, just rollplay).

I hate people who refuse to learn what they can do. You're a 12th level fighter/barbarian you dork of a dwarf, and those feats are not hard to remember. Power attack every once and a while, and remember to cleave you idiot.


Sorry, may have gotten a little carried away.

ExHunterEmerald
2006-06-06, 04:09 PM
I dislike the irrational roleplayed racial hatreds.
Elves vs. dwarves springs to mind.
I'm going to make my next character an elf who isn't snobby and has no problem with dwarves, see if I don't...

molonel
2006-06-06, 04:33 PM
Gnomes - Most useless race in the freaking PHB. Short, bald, weak. In 3.0, their favored class was ILLUSIONIST, because God knows we can't give them something useful like WIZARD because then they might be useful. One fifth level spell makes the preferred class of this entire race pointless. Then, in 3.5, the designers had to up the ante and give gnomes the preferred class of ....

Bards - Not just the class, although bards were so entirely useless in 3.0 rules that not even the most hardened, whiney White Wolf wannabe defended the mechanics of that God-forsaken pile of crap. The 3.5 is better, but that's like winning the Special Olympics: is that really an accomplishment? Monte Cook wrote the only bard in Third Edition worth playing.

Oh no, it's not just the class, though. It's the sort of roleplayers this class attracts. Buncha pansies, Vampire: The Masquerade rejects whining for dice pools, stuck-up useless freaks wanting to split hairs between "roleplaying" and "roll-playing" who are downright useless if initiative is ever rolled, and hogging the damn spotlight whenever anybody opens their mouth for more than ten seconds at a shot.

"Can I roll a Diplomacy check?"
"No."
"Can I roll one now?"
"No."
"What about a Bluff check?"
"NO! Now shut up!"

Drow - I have genocided an entire RACE out of my campaign world because of you, R.A. Salvatore. Thanks.

Nahal
2006-06-06, 04:39 PM
I agree with drow. Drow are what happens when Elves meet Hot Topic. And all the useless variant elves too. Because everyone goes "Pointy ears = kewl, but I still wanna be different." And shame on WoTC for supporting that breed of madness.

Anytime people play lawful good as lawful stupid.

Anytime people play chaotic evil as stupid evil.

In fact, stupid people in general.

Oh, and ducks. Shifty little buggers.

The_Logic_Ninja
2006-06-06, 04:43 PM
The bad player alignments.

You know--Lawful Stupid, Neutral Silent, and Chaotic Retarded.

...actually, that's pretty rational.

Yerrik
2006-06-06, 04:47 PM
I have to completely agree with hating people who play elves that automaticly hate all half-orcs just because they are half-orcs.

"Oh the half-orc-barbarian-fellow-party-member-who-has-killed-and-bled-for-me is dying..... I'm going to wait a round before healing him because elves hate orcs."

Hating all people ever who say: "my character could kill your character"

And even more then them hating people who actually go and try to kill eachother to prove that they can.

Raptorians.

Undead. Overused. Cleric-bait. Not scary.(exception... "drowned"...for some reason I don't know of.)

Spell casters who have to prepare spells.

Spell casters.

TWF.

Dexy people

Inty people.

Cony people.

Wisy people.

People who criticize me. Or anyone whose posts I like. Or who slightly criticize someone who once 3 months ago defended a post that I cannot even remember.

Blah blah bhooghery.

ExHunterEmerald
2006-06-06, 04:48 PM
D&D.

In the eternal words of 4chan, fixed.

RoboticSheeple
2006-06-06, 04:49 PM
Seriously, Dice with dots. It's not strict DnD but I HATE even seeing dice that look out of a 1950s dress (polkadots!) at the game table if the game is DnD. Buy a set of numeral dice people really and stop bring your yatzee dice to your sneak attacks.

I can't be the only one with this problem, (I can but that's kinda a OCD thing and yeah I don't know). The point is I don't like spotty dice (or circles, they're to round....).

The Demented One
2006-06-06, 04:52 PM
Elves. female genitalia elves retreated to the Grey Havens while man fought off the hordes of darkness. I'll play an elf, but I wont enjoy it!
Is that yet another subrace I haven't heard about?




In the eternal words of 4chan, fixed.
God, now I'm going to be associating D&D with 4chan for the rest of my life. You know, that actually wouldn't be so bad. The camwhore PrC. The "Desu Flood" spell. The Complete Weaboo splatbook. Hmm...

Gorbash Kazdar
2006-06-06, 04:53 PM
Drow - I have genocided an entire RACE out of my campaign world because of you, R.A. Salvatore. Thanks.
Seconded. In fact, when a new player joined a homebrew campaign once, she asked about drow, and was promptly told that they weren't available. I simply hadn't written them in for reasons I'm sure those of you who share molonel's opinion don't need to hear again, but according to my players they had once existed in the world, simply so I could personally wipe out each and every single one of them.

Oh, and kender. Even the mention of kender puts me in danger of a stroke. Naturally, my players recognize this and use it to torture me. Of course, since I threaten some form of bodily harm - generally setting them on fire - to at least one player per session, I can't begrudge them getting some back now and again.

Personally, though, I think hating kender and drow are perfectly reasonable reactions. It's liking them that will make me look at you askance ;)

One more: when players create characters that are simply self contradictory. Mostly, this takes the form of having two physical/personality traits that are basically mutually exclusive. My classic example was the "completely unremarkable elf... except he's 7 feet tall" (granted, elves were exceptionally tall in that homebrew world, but 7 feet was still easily a foot past the average). The player would continually insist that NPCs shouldn't remember him because he was so average looking, completely missing the point that his extreme height was in and of itself quite remarkable. I recall telling him once that, yes, the NPCs wouldn't be able to pick him out from a group of elves - provided that it was the national elven basketball team :P

Tyas
2006-06-06, 05:14 PM
Seriously, Dice with dots. It's not strict DnD but I HATE even seeing dice that look out of a 1950s dress (polkadots!) at the game table if the game is DnD. Buy a set of numeral dice people really and stop bring your yatzee dice to your sneak attacks.

I can't be the only one with this problem, (I can but that's kinda a OCD thing and yeah I don't know). The point is I don't like spotty dice (or circles, they're to round....).
I like dice with pips (they are called pips, btw) because my superpower is adding up pipped dice at a glance.

I roll 57d6+1d8 for my sneak attack. That's (one second, two seconds) 242 plus, uh, 5 for two forty... uh.. seven. (then they make me count them out by hand and I'm right).

ExHunterEmerald
2006-06-06, 05:15 PM
God, now I'm going to be associating D&D with 4chan for the rest of my life. You know, that actually wouldn't be so bad. The camwhore PrC. The "Desu Flood" spell. The Complete Weaboo splatbook. Hmm...
Oh, God, the agonizing possibilites. Now you've got me doing it.
Reachcat has reach.
How do I casted web? (low level spellcaster, lol)
A BBEG is away.
CHAOTIC EVIL DOES NOT FORGIVE.
IT'S A TRAP! (roll reflex!)

Okay, stopping now.

Desidus
2006-06-06, 05:24 PM
My biggest hatred, though IMO quite rational, are people who play to racial and class cliches like there's no tomorrow.

Every halfling is a thief, half-orc a barbarian, and every dwarf either a cleric of some drinking god or a fighter who can drink drink drink. *And then the LotR crap (note: I like LotR, just not when people think LotR = D&D cannon in Faerun), such as every elf being able to outdrink a dwarf, even though I could sneeze at the elf and kill him.

I told my DM I was going to play a halfling fighter, who did not use ranged weapons other than javelins etc. *She agreed, but our party halfling thief player nearly had a stroke and said it was the dumbest idea ever.

So I made him a halfling paladin, out of spite. *Grrrr.


As far my irrational hatreds, one is the underdark. *Woo, an entire world under my feet! *Weeee.... oh wait, why would I bother going down here? *I don't care. *It's stupid. *Burn it. *All of it. *Let the Drow kill themselves for their god's sake, what do I care?

My other? *Tavern wenches. *I don't want a drink, if I wanted one I would yell for one. *Leave me alone. *In fact, go die. *Twice, because I have a cleric buddy here.

ExHunterEmerald
2006-06-06, 05:25 PM
So I made him a halfling paladin, out of spite. Grrr.

You win. I'll send you my address, come and take whatever you desire, you deserve it.

Chris_Chandler
2006-06-06, 05:32 PM
What is with halflings and their hairless feet?! Back in my day Halflings were fat, chain-smoking farmers, not bleedin' marathon runners. Eat a biscuit, ya lousy longhaired freaks!

The Vorpal Tribble
2006-06-06, 05:58 PM
I dunno, my loathing of certain D&D aspects aren't really irrational. They have a very real reason.

I absolutely detest Drow, Tieflings and those ultra-halflings from Dragonlance was it? Stole everything. I consider it a great success on my part that I've finally managed to forget what they are called.

Every goth wants to play a tiefling or drow. I played with a guy who would play nothing but tieflings and drow at low level games, and vampires and demons at higher level. And everyone of them had eaten their mother or something, but really, they were good guys, just with a darkness hidden in their soul! And don't get me started on those who try to justify undead bloodlines.

I also can't stand warlocks. Everyone says I'm nuts, that they aren't unbalanced, but ability to zap someone an unlimited ammount of time, any time... its like playing some old game where you had infinite lightening bolts or something. And every warlock I know has always chosen the exact same spells and equipment. Basically see in the dark all day, fly all day, and special powering of their blasts. Everything always pretty much the same.

Then there are the Elemental Stewards from Complete Psionic.... RRRRRROOOOWWWWRRRRR! Give them to druids, clerics, wizards, all of them would make sense, but why do psionicists have little elementals following them around?! Psionics have absolutely 'nothing' to do with the elements. They make no sense, now way, no how, but the book is full of it. Now chaotic aligned psionicists draw power from Limbo, evil psionicists have 'stygian' powers where they harness evil and necromantic powers.

The Demented One
2006-06-06, 06:04 PM
Oh, God, the agonizing possibilites. Now you've got me doing it.
Reachcat has reach.
How do I casted web? (low level spellcaster, lol)
A BBEG is away.
CHAOTIC EVIL DOES NOT FORGIVE.
IT'S A TRAP! (roll reflex!)

Okay, stopping now.
This is delicious Potion of Heroism, I must drink it!
I want these mother****ing Yuan-ti off the mother****ing airship!
Enjoy your lycanthropy.
Power Word: Fgsfds
You failed your save to disbelieve my illusion? HABEEB IT!

SpiderBrigade
2006-06-06, 06:09 PM
Seriously, Dice with dots. *It's not strict DnD but I HATE even seeing dice that look out of a 1950s dress (polkadots!) at the game table if the game is DnD. *Buy a set of numeral dice people really and stop bring your yatzee dice to your sneak attacks.

I can't be the only one with this problem, (I can but that's kinda a OCD thing and yeah I don't know). *The point is I don't like spotty dice (or circles, they're to round....).

Wow, we can never play together. Because I have the opposite irrational hatred...d6es with numerals. I loathe these. LOATHE! Unfortunately I have yet to see a "set" of roleplaying dice that has a pipped d6, so I just have to be sad.

On the other hand, there's not a whole lot of uses for just one d6. Usually if you need one, you need (or in later levels will need) many more. So I can relegate the numeral monstrosities to the far corner of the table, and break out my 30 identical pipped d6es.

Other peeves...hmm...Wee Jas, although that's more of a super-rational peeve.

Devils from anything but the original Monster manual. They're almost guaranteed to be dumb. I usually don't like new demons either, except MMII has the Jovoc and Palrethee which are quite cool.

Jack Mann
2006-06-06, 06:11 PM
I hate campaigns in which players are not allowed to make any positive difference. That is, where no matter what the players do, their situation, and the situation of the world, worsens, until the arbitrary point at which the DM decides to finish the campaign and lets them win the final battle. I had a DM who did this. No, it did not increase the drama, the tension. It just made things seem more pointless.

On a similar note, D&D assumes that players will have a certain amount of downtime at some point. Rushing players off from one situation to another can be good once in a while. Do it every damned night and it starts to lose any sense of tension it might have generated.

If you want to build up tension, you have to do it slowly. A break here and there does wonders for those times when you do put the boot to the players. Constant, unending pressure isn't drama, it's tedium.


God, now I'm going to be associating D&D with 4chan for the rest of my life. You know, that actually wouldn't be so bad. The camwhore PrC. The "Desu Flood" spell. The Complete Weaboo splatbook. Hmm...

You have started down a dark and perilous path, leading to horrors the likes of which you cannot possibly comprehend. Turn back, before it is too late. I beseech you in the bowels of Fizban, think it possible you may be mistaken!*



*Okay, history buffs, place that reference!

Piedmon_Sama
2006-06-06, 06:25 PM
Guys, guys, guys. We didn't gather here to put forward legitimate opinions with reasonable backing! We came here to gang-beat Hennet for his stupidly over-elaborate pants!

ExHunterEmerald
2006-06-06, 06:26 PM
This is delicious Potion of Heroism, I must drink it!
I want these mother****ing Yuan-ti off the mother****ing airship!
Enjoy your lycanthropy.
Power Word: Fgsfds
You failed your save to disbelieve my illusion? HABEEB IT!
...huh, apparently the censors only apply to the post, not the quotes...

A kender is fine too.
10TH LEVEL GET!
*to an outsider* "B&nishment."
Town Constable Party Wagon!
/The town of Hamshead/ is that way >>
One does not simply adventure into Mordor!
POWER WORD IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL
I'll sunder your sword!
IF I SEE THAT ****ING BBEG ONE MORE TIME...
Sphere of Annihilation, oh shi--
I'm in ur campaign, levelling my harbl.
Kobold Jesus!
30 hours in craft(photoshop)
so i heard u liek chokers...
We can't stop here, this is abboleth country...
WHERE IS YOUR PELOR NOW?
COPPER DRAGON IS HUEG
"...and that's how I became the fresh prince of Bel-Aire," said the kender.

Ogod, this really is addictive. That's all I've got, though.
PS, this took me like half an hour to make, if we've been yelled at for 4chan stuff, I'll delete this, I promise.

The_Logic_Ninja
2006-06-06, 06:33 PM
Personally, though, I think hating kender and drow are perfectly reasonable reactions.

What about... half-kender half-drow?!

Leperflesh
2006-06-06, 06:35 PM
Ok, so, confused, I checked Wikipedia's entry about 4chan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4chan).

/b/ gets 37,000 posts per day??!? How could anyone possibly keep up with that kind of forum reading load... I can't even keep up with Gaming on GiantITP, and I spend lots of time here when I should be doing my damn job instead!

Anyway yeah, um, you guys have waaaay too much time on your hands, and that's something, coming from me.

-Lep

ExHunterEmerald
2006-06-06, 06:36 PM
What about... half-kender half-drow?!

...I...
...just...
...no...
DO NOT WANT.

...ooh, new 4chan gag.
"Okay, who gets the +4 greatsword?" "DO NOT WANT."

warmachine
2006-06-06, 07:12 PM
I despise class/level systems but I'm not going to rant about that here. Rather, I really hate the Mongoose version of the Babylon 5 RPG.


It's based on d20 but not d20 Modern or Future. Morons!
Minbari have a -2 Charisma but their favoured class is Diplomat. Work that one out.
The answer, of course, is that the main Minbari character in the series was a diplomat. Whereas the warrior caste were openly rude and contemptuous of everyone. Favoured class: Diplomat? I don't think so.
Shadow souled Minbari. Were they mentioned in the show? No. Do they fill something not properly explained in the series? No. Drows in space! Grow some ****ing imagination.
Advanced, Minbari, crystal armour. Just because the Minbari carved a city out of crystal doesn't mean it's any good for weaponary. Why do think stone axes were replaced by metal swords? Some pseudo-scientific, super meturllagy would be fine.
What are the skills for media manipulation, library research or public speaking? Spot the misapplied, medieval skill set.
Everyone has Shot on the Run. Spot the medieval combat mechanics mangled to accomodate guns.
Chapters repeating what happened in each episode but near non-existent floor plans. That's useful base material for any GM, where the players can change the Universe.

Michael_Sandy
2006-06-06, 08:12 PM
What is this thread about, utterly rational hatreds, or utterly irrational hatreds? The subject line either has an extra 'i' or a missing 'r'?

I do not like players whose characters who do something stupid which the player then justifies with, "Well, my X hates Ys."

Ignoring the fact that the Y in question was a traitor selling out his kind, and someone that the party had under control.

Fine, the character has issues, but try not to be one-dimensional about it. Think a bit about this overdramatic hatred your character has.

I also do not like players whose characters have to be _everywhere_ anytime something exciting is happening that involves a different PC. Don't invite yourself on the sneak scout if you have no ranks in Move Silently, Hide, Listen or Spot. Don't invite yourself into the high society wizards club if you have no diplomacy and no spellcraft. Don't interrupt the GM all the time when he is focusing on the side adventure with two other members of the party with your attention seeking BS! If you want to get your own star time, _wait_. The GM can get through the side quest a lot faster without interruptions.

And I _really_ hate characters who charge in when the rest of the party is reluctant, because if the party _doesn't_ go to help them, they will die. And some more valued member of the party might think that they _have_ to save that character, no matter how stupid they are. So the party gets strung out and attacked in detail.

And all the character who charges thinks about is how many creatures they personally downed, so even if they had to be rescued from pointless stupidity, they feel that they deserve the lion's share of the treasure.

Tiferet
2006-06-06, 08:28 PM
Um, what's with all the elf hate? I happen to like elves, but I HATE it when people play the sterotypical elf pansy, arrogant, know it all. . . which is why I don't play my elves that way.

I hate it when people play evil stupid.

I hate it when lawful good it turned into lawful stupid. (As several other people have mentioned)

I hate the fact that Drizzt and the drow race have been destroyed for so many people by fan boys/girls who feel the need to copycat and can't get an original idea to save their lives.

Oh, and perhaps most of all I hate barbarians. I just can't wrap my mind around a class that's major feature can wind up killing you in the long run. You know, the whole, you lose hit points you gain from raging LAST so if you're at ten HP at the end of your rage and you gained thirty, so now you're at -20 and DEAD.

The_Logic_Ninja
2006-06-06, 08:35 PM
...I tend to play street-punk elves from human-city slums. They tend to not like snooty elves that grew up in crystal cities on top of trees and never wanted for anything much.

The Demented One
2006-06-06, 09:39 PM
Double post...now with added time paradox!

Lidjis
2006-06-06, 09:43 PM
Dervishes - everytime someone talks about a dervish/something i just want to go to their house and kill them in their sleep.

The Demented One
2006-06-06, 09:48 PM
...huh, apparently the censors only apply to the post, not the quotes...

A kender is fine too.
10TH LEVEL GET!
*to an outsider* "B&nishment."
Town Constable Party Wagon!
/The town of Hamshead/ is that way >>
One does not simply adventure into Mordor!
POWER WORD IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL
I'll sunder your sword!
IF I SEE THAT ****ING BBEG ONE MORE TIME...
Sphere of Annihilation, oh shi--
I'm in ur campaign, levelling my harbl.
Kobold Jesus!
30 hours in craft(photoshop)
so i heard u liek chokers...
We can't stop here, this is abboleth country...
WHERE IS YOUR PELOR NOW?
COPPER DRAGON IS HUEG
"...and that's how I became the fresh prince of Bel-Aire," said the kender.

Hope you got 10 gp
I'm the Hulking Hurler, bitch!
YOU GONNA GET DISINTEGRATED!
Demonweb. Serious business.
Eliminster is not a meme.
Illegal in Karnnath.
Spicy Hot Lolimancery.
I scry what you did there.
Every resurrect is resurrect resurrect
Power Word: WRRRRRRY!
Are they still on Greyhawk?
This spell is an illusion, I can tell from the pixels and from having cast a few illusions in my day.

Quirinus_Obsidian
2006-06-06, 09:53 PM
I hate the idea of true neutral being a belief in balance between good and evil such that the character feels motivated to fight which ever is more successful. I swear, the next time I hear somebody say that he or she will get a d4 up the nose.


I played a high power necromancer with a character template that does EXACTLY that.

Where's my d4? =) LOL!

cupkeyk
2006-06-06, 10:08 PM
I quite dig the Ex-Paladin Blackguard concept. What bugs me is that it's virtually impossible to achieve in-game.

"Ah! I have seen my true love cut down before my very eyes! I renounce you - Gods who I once followed - henceforth I shall follow the path of Darkness! Umm... once I go up a level ... and once I can stick enough points into Hide and Move Silently to qualify for the PrC..."

I hope no one is catholic...

I made a paladin who turned black guard as a perverted version of the story of Job. He learned that his god had agreed to destroy his life, kill everyone he loved and bring him to shame and ruin because his god wanted to prove a point to a rival god. The paladin denounces him because his actions were petty and immature.

With DnD deities, a lot of the Dogma written down for them is arguably righteous.

cupkeyk
2006-06-06, 10:20 PM
People who don't read dogma entries in their campaign setting.

Good and evil in dnd is not the same as our social norms. Malar's clerics will fight savigely and risk death to save a pregnant woman or a child.

Kelemver wants you dead dead dead.

Game religion is not black and white.

Brickwall
2006-06-06, 10:26 PM
People who double post.

SpiderBrigade
2006-06-06, 10:33 PM
I'm sorry, the whole 4chan thing is just too much. Let me just say...

http://www.geocities.com/treeelder/owlbear-RLY.jpg

The Demented One
2006-06-06, 10:39 PM
http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/2007/yarly8wa.png

Seffbasilisk
2006-06-06, 10:42 PM
Actually every set of D&D dice i've ever bought (1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 2d10, 1d12, 1d20) has had a pipped d6.


I hate arcane casters who put up walls.
I hate arcane casters hatin' on melee types.
I hate that when I play an arcane caster I fufill the steriotype.
I hate halfing barbarians. Overused. Not funny any more.
I hate people who for DM's to use Deux Ex Machinas to keep the game going, then complain about the Deux Ex Machina.

bosssmiley
2006-06-06, 10:59 PM
Hope you got 10 gp
I'm the Hulking Hurler, bitch!
YOU GONNA GET DISINTEGRATED!
Demonweb. Serious business.
Eliminster is not a meme.
Illegal in Karnnath.
Spicy Hot Lolimancery.
I scry what you did there.
Every resurrect is resurrect resurrect
Power Word: WRRRRRRY!
Are they still on Greyhawk?
This spell is an illusion, I can tell from the pixels and from having cast a few illusions in my day.

Demented One is winning this thread outright so far! *;D

You want irrational hatred? You've come to the right place tonight ladies and germs.

Section 1, the Races of D&D.

Gnomes: beards belong on Dwarves, you got that Gimble? We will be cloudkilling your filthy little burrows now and then ploughing them under with your kin still inside.
sic semper gnomes!

3.5 Halflings: We have gypsies/Vistani/Rhennie already thank you. Get back to farming (on the cleared Gnomish lands we have set aside for you) and trap-finding you skiving little ratbags. Your name is Fatty Bolger for a reason short-*rse!

Kender: Smiley SMASH! puny caffinated ADD halfling wannabes! The only good kender is a dead kender. *>:(

Elves: How the heck did *another* sub-race of those lazy arrogant toe-rags get in here? What was the number of that logging company again?

Dwarves: Gold, gold, gold, gold, gold, gold, gold, gold, gold, gold, gold, gold, gold, gold and a totally unjustified racial benefits package.

Raptorans: Owls are cool creatures. You are not! I mean, you have to gain 'life experience' (aka XP) before you can use an innate racial ability. Darwinian selection called and said it wants a word with your species...

Goliaths: Just when we'd got it through the munchkins' heads about Monkey Grip you guys show up. I mean seriously, go count your rocks and play your team sports you obnoxious, over-sized rock-faced jock manques, just stay out of my game!

Eberron Shifters: Yeah I got a problem with you too, "bub". Real species stay one shape all month!

Eberron Changelings: See above, and have the courtesy to have a face when I'm talking to you!

Eberron Warforged: Shut up thinking you have rights or opinions, and get back on the frontline so we can keep real soldiers alive tinkertoy! Meaning in your life? Whatever I tell you it is this week! *>:(

Elans, Illumans, Kalashtar: No-one cares about you crystal-waving hippy races, ok? Take your left-coast pseudo-mancy and get out of my pro-swashbuckling sight. Real men don't do crystals!

The 1/2-races: Identity politics as the basis of your character? Excuse me while I burn my D&D books and weep for the loss of dignity your represent. *::)

Humans: "Me so versatile, adapt to situation longtime."
The sheer wealth and grandeur of 6,000 years of human culture and that's the *best* you can do? Come back and see me when you actually have a humans chapter written for "Races of Destiny"!

Any more usual suspects need a slapping? Oh yeah!

Tieflings: You were cool once. Tony DiTerlizzi and the Planescape guys made you the next big thing, the ultimate bad boy/girl everyone wanted to either be, or be with. Now, you're just old and sad.

Aasimar: Trying to cash in on your older, cooler sibling's cred does not work when your preferred class is paladin. You've taken nobility, virtue and generosity of spirit and managed to make it naff. How the heck did you manage that!? >:(

The Vorpal Tribble
2006-06-06, 11:09 PM
Real men don't do crystals!
I collect crystals (and fossils) and I play psions. Wanna make somethin' out of it?

*rolls up his sleeves*

bosssmiley
2006-06-06, 11:23 PM
I collect crystals (and fossils) and I play psions. Wanna make somethin' out of it?

Ah, but do you 'do' crystals in a serious-minded geology-crystallography-and-piezoelectrics way? Or in a patchoulli-scented candles, incense and "whoo-woo" mysticism way? ;)


*rolls up his sleeves*

...and since when do Tribbles have sleeves? ???

(...err, you do know I was indiscriminately sticking it to every D&D race in reach there, right?)

RoboticSheeple
2006-06-06, 11:28 PM
(...err, you do know I was indiscriminately sticking it to every D&D race in reach there, right?)

:o And to think we just all thought you were a Kobold lover!

:P

(By the by and by I can not believe how many spot (pip) dice supporters there are, it's amazing, shouldn't you all be playing Warhammer then?)

SpiderBrigade
2006-06-06, 11:34 PM
(By the by and by I can not believe how many spot (pip) dice supporters there are, it's amazing, shouldn't you all be playing Warhammer then?)

I like d20s though

Roland St. Jude
2006-06-06, 11:36 PM
I can only think of one, but it's a big one: Ebberon. I've barely read the thing. I've read a few adventures for it in Dungeon magazine. But I just can't stand it. Golem PCs and magic trains? Abundant magic in the hands of commoners? Shifters and changlings? (I've seen the chaos a single doppelganger can do, and now we've got a whole race of them mucking about?)

I'm sure I could grow to like the setting or come up with more rational reasons why I don't like it. But all I have right now is an irrational dislike of the whole affair.

On a side note, this whole thread makes me think of this Monty Python quote:

“I think that all good, right thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that all good, right thinking people in this country are fed up with being told that all good, right thinking people in this country are fed up with being sick and tired. I'm certainly not, and I'm sick and tired of being told that I am” :P

The Demented One
2006-06-06, 11:42 PM
*rolls up his sleeves with telekinesis*
Fixed.

Yossarian
2006-06-07, 12:05 AM
Min-maxers who dump charisma and end up with a net diplomacy modifier of -7, then ask "Guys, can we roleplay this encounter instead of rollplaying it?" (With, of course, no intention of attempting to accurately portray their Charisma score of 3.) Makes me want to create a bard with all physical stats at 8 or below, then ask "Can we roleplay this fight instead of just rollplaying it?"

People who barge into discussions of game balance and yell "if you think it's unbalanced it just means you're too crappy a DM to handle it!" Yeah? If your only solution to a balance issue relies solely on micromanaging it by hand I guess you're too crappy a game designer to fix it properly.

The utterly arbitrary alignment crap they threw into Magic of Incarnum. I don't mind the fact that they made it a largely alignment-based system--it makes it kind of like the Force that way. It's just that when they decided to implement it mechanically they outsourced the task to a brain-damaged rabid monkey stapled to a dead badger.

captain_decadence
2006-06-07, 12:12 AM
Owlbears, because really.

Rogues who think that, regardless of their alignment, they can steal anything not nailed down.

Any species with more than one of two subraces. I can understand a little variation, but too much is too much.

The_Logic_Ninja
2006-06-07, 12:19 AM
Wait, what? Owlbears are totally AWESOME.

I mean, come on.

Is it an owl? Is it a bear? YOU DON'T KNOW!

Desidus
2006-06-07, 12:34 AM
I got it! *My one truelly irrational hatred that, by reading just their name, made me want to burn a book!

WARFORGED

I hate them. *Everything about them. *I hate that they exist, that they think, that they exist, and that they have the name "war" and "forged" in their name. *Most of all, I hate their existance.

Why? *I don't know. *In a campaign I was playing, my character's life was saved by a warforged. *But I, as a player, loathed it. *I actually asked the DM if I could die instead, because I'd rather have a dead character than one who was saved by a warforged. *My DM asked why I felt that way.

"Pure, unadulturated, mindless hatred" was my answer.

I will burn every D&D book I own, as well as take a hammer to my computer, before I knowingly, and willingly, play a warforged when I don't have to.




Don't even get my started on Ebberon (Eberron? *I never even learned how to spell it I hated it so much) as a whole. *I played it once to test it out. *After I was whisked halfway across a continent on a train, I decided I was right in not buying the book. *Only reason I still play that campaign is I managed to convince (read: con) my DM into allowing the Faerun pantheon. *Lathander will clean this setting, even if I must smite every living thing to do it. *Grrrr.

Hadrian_Emrys
2006-06-07, 12:42 AM
Limits on multiclassing for monks and paladins.

Alignment. I'd rather go through the trouble of overhauling anything that relates to it to fit a non-retarded setting. To hell with smite good and smite evil. I'm an equal opportunity killer. The ability is now just called SMITE.

DMgrinder
2006-06-07, 01:11 AM
Alright!

Irrational hatreds!

ELVES!

DROW! because they are still elves, but can't get girlfriends!

HALF-ANYTHING!

PALIDINS! please remove stick from anus and beat yourself over the head with it!

ORLANDO BLOOM! because he played an elf!

R. A. SALVATORE! Because he didn't beat the ass of anyone trying to ruin the drow thing, and for having Drizzt not sleep with that hot priestess in the first book, because she was evil!

MY EX-GIRLFRIEND!!!!!!



GGGRrrrrraaaaagggghhhhnnnnnaaaahhhh!!!!! I HATE HER!! <smiley of DOOM!>





Oh, and on a slightly calmer note. Foreskin. Really, man, wtf is it there for? :-/

The_Snark
2006-06-07, 01:12 AM
On the above- I would just let the paladins and folks smite whatever they want, but if they smite a good character without a good reason they suddenly need atonement. Of course, the blackguards can smite whoever they want now, but that's the whole point isn't it?

Anyway, sorry for that rational thought. My hatred- the utter inability of unarmed to be useful without taking monk or some other class focused around it!

The_Logic_Ninja
2006-06-07, 01:14 AM
...because fists should TOTALLY be up to par with swords, especially MAGIC swords!

PhoeKun
2006-06-07, 01:21 AM
Well, that is a pretty irrational hatred...

Seffbasilisk
2006-06-07, 01:21 AM
DMgrinder. The priestess was his sister. Scrubbing bubbles

I hate how you always lug around rope, but when you rarely need it, there's usually someone with wings or a fly spell handy.

Piedmon_Sama
2006-06-07, 01:58 AM
I had a 3.0 Paladin with Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Bullrush, and the Iron Fist feat from OA. As I recall, he did something like D6+D4+3 lethal damage with a punch. He was quite good at killing stuff with his bare hands. =p

Jerthanis
2006-06-07, 02:18 AM
I think the problem is that Monks can do LOTS of damage with unarmed strikes, and everyone else does piddling to the things that aren't immune to subdual. You might wanna play a rogue who's never unarmed, even in a pinch they can fight their way out of a desperate situation, but if they don't dip a level of monk they won't ever have that, but if they DO dip a level in monk their fists are almost as good as any normal Rogue weapon, and with one feat (ascetic rogue) their fists are unbelievably powerful and they might as well not bother using any other weapon.

Personally I like the Unarmed Strike feats from d20 star wars (that and Fringers are the only things that were interesting or useful out of those books) where you do 1d4 per feat you take and you can choose between lethal or subdual and a few other bonuses. That way you can add some unarmed versitility to the mix without losing a straightforward build, having to take multiclass penalties, or something like that.

BCOVertigo
2006-06-07, 03:04 AM
I hate the stereotype that all DM's hate their players and want to kill them in the most horrible way possible because regardless of the character they are playing they always choose the ONE area I didn't map out and now suddenly it's my fault you all died because I have a bad habit of not judging the CR of monsters accurately if I don't sit down and think about it before hand. Seriously the NPC was guiding you down the path and for some reason you think splitting up is a good idea when you're being tracked like prey by a villain trained at killing in one attack who your entire party would be challenged by in a fight?

Also, I hate my players.

PandaNecromancer
2006-06-07, 03:10 AM
Barbarians: Rawrr! I get mad and smash things! Try roleplaying a smart barbarian for once, eh? Just cause you have a temper and smash things well doesnt mean you've never studied...you know, after you got over that illiteracy thing. And it doesnt even have to be booksmarts.

Bards: Well, I really have nothing against bards. They play music for you and sing when you need it the most...they're the psychiatrists of the battlefield.

Cleric: Yeah. If you choose a god, please stick to that god. no one wants a powerless cleric who defected from his own religion.

Druid: Nail a metal plate to them and they're wearing armor that negates all their spells! Teach anyone how to speak your secret language and all your powers are gone! Le gasp!

Fighter: Okay, he's dead. What else can you do?

Monk: They can attack with WAY too many parts of their body for me to be comfortable.

Paladin: I swear I'll repent and make up for all my sins! Be merciful! And as he turns around, SNEAK ATTACK!

Ranger: Wow. There are things you hate that much you've spent time figuring out how to kill them better? Somebody didnt get enough hugs as a kid.

Rogue: I'm a rogue! It's my job to steal things. NO ITS NOT!

Rouge: EH??

Sorcerer: If i think hard enough, SOMETHING will happen!

Wizard: I play one of these actually...I've multiclassed into Rogue. And Fighter. Yeah, I swing greatswords and hurl lightning bolts as a Warforged. It's great hehe.

Humans: You can take your extra feat at level one and die!

Elves: Your -2 to Con means I can kill you with leeches! Especially if you're a wizard! Cause your grapple checks suck!

Dwarves: I still havent been able to poison one to death...

Gnomes: They're cool cause they build things. They suck when they hit you with Phantasmal Killer.

Halfling: Where'd my wallet go?

jaqueses
2006-06-07, 03:21 AM
DMs.

What is with these guys? I mean, we come to your games we make our characters look like fools, and then we have to protect some stupid arisocrat that doesnt even know he can wear a chain shirt. Those other players though. They should never listen to the guy that up until a battle has been playing a drunken dwarf. ESPECIALLY when he says to split up.

So yea players too.

Telok
2006-06-07, 03:21 AM
Robot ninjas in a high-magic fantasy setting. Yes, that means you Mr. Warforked.

Doing things by halves. I mean I could live with half elves in old AD&D but things are getting just silly now, half-orc, half-fiend, half-troll, half-dragon, half-ogre, half-giant, half-celestial, half-golem, half-assed. Here, let's half this sword through your head please WotC.

Players who play casters and don't know what thier spells do. I mean c'mon! You picked them out and wrote them down. At the very least they need to bookmark the page that the ones they use four times, and have to stop and look up each time, so they don't waste five minutes figuring out what the bloody thing does again.

The_Logic_Ninja
2006-06-07, 03:22 AM
Robot ninjas in a high-magic fantasy setting. Yes, that means you Mr. Warforked.

...ninjas?
Wha?

And Warforged are more akin to androids than robots.

Artful_Dodger
2006-06-07, 03:52 AM
Sorcerers! ARGH! Nothing against sorcerers as is, I've just got a sour taste in my mouth because my friend ALWAYS plays one! None of them have personalities or back stories, I'm convinced he has a completed Character Sheet saved on his computer, when he dies he just prints off a new sheet and gives the character a new name. Speaking of dying he does it alot then whinges the DM is out to get him, he dies because he doesnt choose good or even useful spells, Leomunds Tiny Hut over Fireball

Cybren
2006-06-07, 04:00 AM
People who make really specific core-classes. Like "Battlemaster who uses a short sword and wears a kilt and also has a beard." and gives them "weapon focus(beard)" or somesuch.





...ninjas?
Wha?

And Warforged are more akin to androids than robots.

I'd like warforged more if they all talked like Data

DarrylHamlin
2006-06-07, 04:33 AM
People who make really specific core-classes. Like "Battlemaster who uses a short sword and wears a kilt and also has a beard." and gives them "weapon focus(beard)" or somesuch.
I thought Weapon Focus (Beard) had a special prerequisite of Chuck Norris.


Progressing, my pet peeve, is being stuck with a role, because the person who agreed to do that role, sucks at it.

Blaze
2006-06-07, 04:51 AM
I hate when my friends want me to kickstart a campaign without any preparation just on the fly without even a days notice.. "Hey Blaze, how about you start up a campaign for us? I don't feel like DM'ing tonight." *Me-> "Uhhhh, Uhhh... I suppose so"

I also hate Halflings!!! I hate them because my buddies usually end up doing stupid characters for the campaigns mentioned above... "hey we should all make halfling bards and be brothers!!!" "yeah dude that'd be f'in sweet!"

Dear god I don't want to DM random campaigns with such a ridiculous party. O well that's only sometimes the case like when the other guys don't have anything prepared, but the jokes on them!! I've recently planned out a campaign...


I hate also when I make a real campaign and prepare it, and then my buddies realize..."O shoot, I don't know what I want to be, hmmm I will just pick a bonded summoner because he looks like a weirdo." "My stats suck I'm gonna be a paladin!"
And everytime they make a campaign they expect properly made characters with good backgrounds, and for my campaigns they don't do diddly squat, so this time around I've told them if they don't get their act together I am gonna just quit DM'ing for them.


Arghhhhhh! Yay for my rant while being tipsy after watching a movie *:o

*Edit* I also hate when my friend the DM gets ticked off at me for dying in his campaigns. I mean Coooooome on, a dwarven fighter who is always rowdy is obviously going to kill some satanist witch who tells us that the Prince of Skulls is coming to save her... Prince of Skulls eh? *Cracks open witch's skull with a heavy pick* Oh hey Mr. Prince of SKulls, I didn't realize that was your woman, she's much too fat for you! *Splat I'm dead*

Then he makes me lose a level for dying and I end up being behind the party... again as usual... I also went Giant hunting one time with that char and ended up splattered against the hillside.

I hate when people get mad for roleplaying:
Recently another friend and his campaign.... dear god what a ridiculous situation... He makes a campaign around the Roman Empire, and I make a character Kensai dedicated to the Romans and swear to the Emperor.... I stick around with the party after the war and they hate the romans... sooo needless to say some pirates prepare a battle against the romans since they don't like them taking over the whole continent.... I have a dilemna which the whole party gets mad at me for..I swore an oath to the Emperor and yet they want a lawful good guy to betray my oath to the Emperor and join them. OOC they are all mad at me because I have a tendency to die multiple times throughout campaigns, but I mean this time it wasn't my fault the DM basically put me in a dead end with 5million ravaging cows brandishing knives behind me. What am I supposed to do? :P
Good times with DnD... sometimes not so much :D

Gorbash Kazdar
2006-06-07, 07:18 AM
Hope you got 10 gp
I'm the Hulking Hurler, bitch!
YOU GONNA GET DISINTEGRATED!
Demonweb. Serious business.
Eliminster is not a meme.
Illegal in Karnnath.
Spicy Hot Lolimancery.
I scry what you did there.
Every resurrect is resurrect resurrect
Power Word: WRRRRRRY!
Are they still on Greyhawk?
This spell is an illusion, I can tell from the pixels and from having cast a few illusions in my day.
I see what you did there...

I'm laughing so hard right now, I think I woke my roommate up. At the same time, I'm truly frightened :P Mostly, I'm trying to figure out if you've left any for me...

EDIT: Though let's avoid some the more... colorful ones, eh?

Murky_Pool
2006-06-07, 07:30 AM
Does it have to be D&D?

Sorcerers - 10,000 whiny kids have a fit about "It's too hard to choose my wizards spells every day, why can't I use them all?" and WotC fold like a pack of cards. Yay, a gunslinger with a variety of ammo is now a core class.

That has a rational, although it's probably so knee jerk that can count as irrational.

And on a non D&D tangent

The French. I'm a true englishman, it's built into my genes.

ExHunterEmerald
2006-06-07, 08:33 AM
I've got a few yet! And I don't think I've crossed a line, though that's getting harder and harder as we go...If I have, just politely thwack me XD;

I COME FROM A PLANE YOU MAY NOT UNDERSTAND

1) Plot hook
2) ?????????
3) PROFIT

PALADIN DIES

Mirror of copypasta

Everybody's CE for Bridget!

What's the CR on that pedobear?

DM HAS SPOKEN, MY RIGID GAME STRUCTURE

I've had it with these snakes! Roll initiative!

Spell buffs just kicked in, yo!

gb2/3.0/

Lurker moar.

I'd hit it, and roll a twenty.

"Pelor, is that baby for sale?"
"It is now, lol"

Kill it with fireball!

Bard is not a class!
Bard is not a class, however, is a class.

*counterspell* NO U!

OzymandiasVolt
2006-06-07, 09:24 AM
I actually made an epic counterspell called "NO U". <__<
(Oh, and the banishment spell "GTFO" resulted in much laughter, and the permanent silence spell "STFU" was pretty popular when used on overly-chatty NPCs...)

Nahal
2006-06-07, 12:19 PM
-Mind Flayers. "Hey, know what'd be cool? If we make Cthulhu into a monster race!" also "Make a will save. You fail? Okay it eats your brain" They must all be burned.

-Libris Mortis and anything in it. Before when your token emo/goth wanted to play a vampire, all you had to do was say no and could back it up by pointing out that the mechanics weren't there. The last thing we need is a concise, easy way for goths to act out their Anne Rice-inspired fantasies.

-While we're on the subject, goths, emo kids and furries should all either be shot or locked away and have some sense beaten into them. You're not a vampire, the world is not darkness and sorrow just because you can't get laid, we don't want to hear hours of whining about how you got dumped and if you believe that putting on an easter bunny outfit makes you half-rabbit you do not deserve to breed. If fact, just shoot the furries. There's no point in wasting taxpayers' money on therapy for them.

SpiderBrigade
2006-06-07, 01:45 PM
Nazis.

I hate these guys.

The_Logic_Ninja
2006-06-07, 02:19 PM
The "I'd hit it" actually goes I would hit it, roll a twenty, and CRIT it.

ExHunterEmerald
2006-06-07, 02:25 PM
Nazis.

I hate these guys.

...Win.
Their treasure is usually a decent drop though. Once, I got this ark thing...

The_Logic_Ninja
2006-06-07, 02:27 PM
...Win.
Their treasure is usually a decent drop though. Once, I got this ark thing...

Cursed item!

To quote Admiral Ackbar, "IT'S A TRAP!"

DMgrinder
2006-06-07, 04:36 PM
(moderators, please ignore this for one post)

Comrade Gorby: Sorry, no can do :P *OTOH, I'm at least partially responsible for heading the thread off in this direction... Anyways, heres the deal: you can D&D-ify 4chan memes so long as it doesn't violate a forum rule. *Otherwise I may have to find a b& hammer...

My bad.

Blaze
2006-06-07, 04:53 PM
-While we're on the subject, goths, emo kids and furries should all either be shot or locked away and have some sense beaten into them. You're not a vampire, the world is not darkness and sorrow just because you can't get laid, we don't want to hear hours of whining about how you got dumped and if you believe that putting on an easter bunny outfit makes you half-rabbit you do not deserve to breed. If fact, just shoot the furries. There's no point in wasting taxpayers' money on therapy for them.

I wish my lawn was emo, then it would cut itself.

Leperflesh
2006-06-07, 04:55 PM
I wish my lawn was emo, then it would cut itself.

Ha ha.... yeah!

But then again... it would only really cut itself once, and not very much, and in a fairly safe place. Then, it would just talk a lot about how it cuts itself "all the time".

Also, who wants a black lawn?

-Lep

Brickwall
2006-06-07, 05:25 PM
Also, who wants a black lawn?
-Lep

ME!!

On to my own:

People who add a little signature at the bottom of all their posts, the same one, every time. And I don't mean the actual signature, I mean things like:
-Brickwall

THAT'S WHAT THE SIGNATURE FUNCTION IS FOR!!! USE IT!!!

Leperflesh
2006-06-07, 05:28 PM
Heh.

I developed the habit back before there were such things as .sig banners. It's just kind of stuck.

Also, I have an irrational hatred of .sig banners, particularly when the .sig banner is longer than the actual post.

-Lep

Akiosama
2006-06-07, 05:46 PM
Gotta agree with you on both counts, Lep. *I've been doing it as long as I've been online too, and that's been quite a while.

As for irrational hatreds - I hate the way people get silly about how to deal with potential flaws/disadvantages in RPGs...

For example, "I don't have a problem with my weapons getting Sundered, because I have Quick Draw and carry five or six extra with me at all times."

or...

"I'll use Charisma as my dump stat, because if I just roleplay well enough (read: *use MY Charisma, not my character's) I can interact without the roll of the dice. *Same goes for intelligence and wisdom, game mechanical factors like skill points and spellcasting aside."

or...

"I want to get all the benefits of the Vow of Poverty. *However, it means I can't own anything significant. *Therefore, I will take it, but borrow everything from my friend, and it will all be good."
(If there's a ruling against this, I'm not aware of it. *I have heard this at least a few times before, though.)

Another thing I can't stand is the sheer number of 'exceptions to the rule' that seem to pop up... and the defense of those exception ideas with "Well Always means X% of the time, not all of that race are Y alignment"... *Good aligned demons (like that succubus-paladin abomination on WotC's site) or certain 'good' Drow... *Ugh. *It was ok, I guess the first time or two, but there are TOO MANY of them out there.

And last, I hate it when players feel they should be able to get away with something that an NPC shouldn't, and cry "Foul" when the DM gives their action the same repercussion that an NPC would garner in the same situation.

Example:
Player - "I try to pickpocket the Merchant." *
DM - "You fail, he notices, yells, and suddenly you're surrounded by the City Guards." *
Player - "Well, I'm not going to jail! *I'll fight my way out!" *
<Six combat rounds later> *
DM - "You're dead." *
Player - "Killer DM! *You did that on purpose! You suck!"

Anyhow, those are three of my biggest RPG hatreds. *Dunno if they're irrational or not, but man, they bug me.

My 2 yen,

Game on!

Akio * 8)

PandaNecromancer
2006-06-07, 06:25 PM
People who make really specific core-classes. Like "Battlemaster who uses a short sword and wears a kilt and also has a beard." and gives them "weapon focus(beard)" or somesuch.



I'd like warforged more if they all talked like Data

High intelligence and little contact with emotional people means you can talk like Data if you wanted XD

Libris Mortis: Yes, there's a lot of whiny emo people in there! Especially the Dirgesinger. Seriously, have you read their description? They want people to feel the pain they suffered in life through music and/or poetry. Dude...EMO! lol A running joke with my DM and fellow players: Have a campaign starring five Dirgesingers and call themselves The Cure...Light Wounds.

bosssmiley
2006-06-07, 06:36 PM
Cursed item!

To quote Admiral Ackbar, "IT'S A TRAP!"

Yeah, but he thinks the same about hooks. :-/

Dark Knight Renee
2006-06-07, 07:36 PM
Any time I see anything about comitment to neutrality, I feel this unearthly loathing...

Also, people who constantly bash elves bug me.

Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick
2006-06-07, 07:48 PM
I just found this out, but I really dislike soulknives.
For no reason, at all.
They're not a bad class. I just don't like them.
At all.
Weird.

The_Logic_Ninja
2006-06-07, 07:51 PM
I just found this out, but I really dislike soulknives.
For no reason, at all.
They're not a bad class. I just don't like them.
At all.
Weird.

Actually--they ARE a bad class (unless you take the Soulbow PrC).

Hadrian_Emrys
2006-06-07, 08:06 PM
I dislike barbarians. Meatsacks that hit hard. Yay?

Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick
2006-06-07, 08:13 PM
Actually--they ARE a bad class (unless you take the Soulbow PrC).

I'd be less confused, if it weren't for you meddling kids!
*shakes fist*

BobGhengisKhan
2006-06-07, 08:52 PM
This Horatio Alger crap that's foisted on us with every D20 system that comes down the pipe, especially considering that it's claiming to be "heroic fantasy".

"The evil wizard plots to rule the world!"

"Quickly! We must clear out ever-stronger monsters in some random dungeons so we have enough levels and lewt to face him!"

ImperiousLeader
2006-06-08, 11:45 AM
Wizards. Every other spellcasting class has a reason for their power, whether it's faith, discipline or exotic heritage. Wizards ... read a few books? Then why don't all the literate classes cast spells?

storybookknight
2006-06-08, 12:45 PM
Kender. Oh lord, Kender. In fact, Weis&Hickman should just be shot. In the face. With Disintegrate, or maybe Remove From Time Stream. You're giving my players excuses to act like morons? Grr...

Also, Tolkein. Get your LOTR out of my D&D! Maybe it was original 50 years ago, but now it's hackneyed and stale. That's part of why I like Eberron. Why wouldn't elves have an ancestor worship culture?

Final Fantasy, when applied to D&D. Enough said, perhaps, but allow me to elucidate. Grog Smash Final Fantasy!!! Graaah!!!

While we're at it, campaign plots based on Wheel of Time, Sword of Truth, George R.R. Martin, or any video game are also disallowed. With Fire. Disallowed with Fire. Come up with your own material! Please and thank you!

And... the Serenity RPG setting, for not being good enough. That one is just disappointing. If only they had the advantage of Math or Number Theory, maybe we could have stood a chance...

Gamebird
2006-06-08, 01:09 PM
Cross gender role playing.

Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick
2006-06-08, 01:25 PM
Wizards. Every other spellcasting class has a reason for their power, whether it's faith, discipline or exotic heritage. Wizards ... read a few books? Then why don't all the literate classes cast spells?
They're...magical....books.
>_>;

The_Final_Dream
2006-06-08, 01:37 PM
Elves.

I hate elves. HATE Elves

Okay, let's be fair here. Drow are cool, assuming they aren't stupid, tragic, loner cookie-cutter copies of Drizzt. And one main race of "high" elves is fine, as long as they have some depth and culture beyond "we're cool because we live forever and have pointy ears, and we pity the other races who don't, but we're still Chaotic Good even though we can openly racist."

But if I see another sourcebook with another new elven subrace, tailor made to be mysterious, cool, and better at X than any non-elf PC race, I'm going to begin my long promised genocidal campaign against elves. I will start by raising a small army of Orcs, traditional enemies of elves. Then, I will have them attack a small village, far from civilization. This will inevitably attract a party of low-level adventurers, who will barge in, kill a few orcs, and (thinking the threat is over) will precede to loot the obvious and unguarded chest in the middle of the encampment filled with wearable, obviously magical items smeared with slow acting contact poison. As the adventurers writhe in agony hours after putting on the Magic Auraed items, I will claim their belongings for the clan and send their souls to Grumush, dark god of orcs and elf-hating, who will grant me the power to raise the adventurers poison-impregnated bodies as horrible, blasphemous zombies.

I will repeat this, gaining the wealth and unholy services of dozens of adventurers. After a group of adventurers is smart enough not to put on the poisoned clothes and strong enough to kill the orcs, or at least strong enough to seriously hurt the warband, they will come upon me - wounded (or so it seems), manacled to the wall, and a prisoner of the orcs for days. Never thinking that I could be lying, they will take me with them back to town - and when they at night, halfway to town, I will take the first watch and slit their throats while they sleep. With their undead husks as my new minions and the remains of the orc tribe, I will take and send them away to a safe spot. I will return to the town, boast that I will kill the entire orc tribe my myself, and come back with as many heads as I can carry. The townsfolk will inevitably reward me, and to repay them I will throw a feast with my newfound wealth, complete with spiced mead for all and a heavy dose of poison for seasoning. Then, my undead slaves and the remaining orcs will enter the town and kill anyone that didn't drink the poison while I raise the bodies of the townsfolk as my minions.

I will repeat this in as many towns as I need, working my way up to stronger and stronger adventurers with more expensive possessions. When a smart group finally realizes what's going on and confronts me, I will beg for mercy and reveal to them that I only did what I did to save my poor, dying mother and avenge the horrible, twisted wrongs elves committed on me. While they're debating the morality of killing me and before they realize what bull**** just came out of my mouth, I will trigger the pit trap / antimagic field/ amazingly sharp spikes combination set up in my inner sanctum and kill them too. By that time it is no longer safe to continue with my present plan.

I will then take my current army, put it in cold storage (i.e. bury it - orcs too, no need to have minions that can betray you when zombies never eat, sleep, or have treasonous thought), and join the church of Saint Cuthbert. Beforehand, I will give each of the major clerics a false vision (paying for any services I must buy - from an evil yet lazy and uncreative mage - with former adventurers' gold) that a man much like myself is actually the manifestation of Saint Cuthbert's avatar, come to the material plane in mortal guise to test the faithful and reward them with a great crusade against hidden evil. Naturally, the fools will believe it, and in a few short months I will rise to power in the Church (of course always hiding my alignment with magic, mental exercises, and giving money to orphans). I will then reveal my "true" nature in a blinding flash of light and propose a holy crusade against the vile elves! Yes, elves! With their pointy ears so much like demons' horns and their mysterious ways and their alien culture. They never fight except to defend themselves and for all their claims of goodness they harbor lazy, idle beings in their midst - and idle elves are the tools of devils! I will warn the Cuthbertites to beware false prophets from the gods of the elves and to strike down elves within the Church before sabotage the campaign. My deed done, I will teleport away to "be with St. Cuthbert" as the genocide begins.

The Cuthbertites are thorough and will prepare before a holy war, possibly even gaining allies without thinking too much about their morality (Hextor might be interested). Meanwhile, I will take my treasure and send a magical projection to a dragon of moderate age - strong enough that she could kill me, but not so strong she could kill me and my undead horde. I will give this dragon, still young and ambitious, a gift of treasure and then propose a deal: help me raise an army and I will give you a chance to plunder an entire nation. She will inevitably betray me later, but by then I'll be ready. For now, she will agree (or I will find a dragon that will agree) and I will have my first dragon ally. That dragon will convince or bully several other, younger dragons into joining the cause and I will have about half a dozen dragons under my command, none of which will trust the others enough to gang up on me and kill me - and in the event they do I will have a teleportation spell ready at all times and never expose my wondrous, massive, and individually fragile horde of undead to the dragons and their breath weapons.

While the dragons murder a few scattered elf villages, I will infiltrate elf society and engineer a war between two major elven nations. If there is only one mother nation from which all elves spring, I will engineer a civil war between the elves. An old slight between two groups of elves, or (even better) a row between the royal families, will be the fodder for a senseless war between two major elven population centers. The elves, being flighty and easily offended, will be goaded easily to fight. Even if their lackadaisical personalities and good alignment prevents actual war, there will be brawls here and there, a few scattered killings and assaults, and general unrest and distrust between the nations. Hopefully, they will gird themselves to fight other elves and ready their armies.

Then, I will arrange to have the ruler of one nation assassinated and blame it squarely on the other nation. Not just the monarch will die, though - his immediate family and anything that stands in the way of the best magical yet elf-shaped killer the powers of a dragon and a dark god of elf-hating can create will die in creative, bloody, and horribly painful ways. The king's body will be destroyed by magic and his soul will be captured in a gem and teleported to me when the magical assassin returns, where I will sell it to a demon in exchange for a bit of demonic help in the coming slaughter. If a war hasn't started yet, it will, and if a blatant assassination isn't enough to start a war elves are so lazy I could just stab every elf in the face in broad daylight and no one would stop me.

I have the elves fighting among themselves, a horde of undead (which I will fortify with the bodies of the elves in the settlements the dragons raze and enhance with dark magic), a few demons, a wing of dragons (if they are ever wiped out, perhaps by a wing of good dragons or a very well prepared group of adventurers, I can simply recruit more using the same tactics as before), and a crusade against the heathen tree-lovers brewing. Most people would begin the bloodbath now, but that wouldn't be enough. I want to be thorough. So I will invite the drow along to join the war. All I need to do is approach the leading matron (by magical projection - I have gone too far to spend the rest of my live enslaved by drow) and tell her that I'm going to attack the elves while the civil war rages. We will bond over our hatred of elves and love of evil and she will rally the drow that follow her to join in the greatest war against the hated, light-loving faeries - because nothing unites drow and squelches their petty squabbling like a chance to kill elves.

I will then call out to Grumush, my patron, for help from his children. The orcs will flow to me in record numbers, brutal, stupid, and ready to kill. I will fortify them with magic and stolen adventurer goods and drill them until they are a lethal, ordered army nearly unable to disobey orders, even if it means their death.

After I dispatch the adventurers that inevitably discover my plot (hint: by this time, my bodyguards are polymorphed dragons and I have enough magical items to outfit a small army, which I do) and raise them as zombies, it is almost time to begin. I will sacrifice the souls an entire village of elves to my dark god of hatred and prepare the ritual that will empower me with every filthy elven soul that is ripped from its body in glorious battle. I will delay the army of St. Cuthbert with a few well-placed detours (they worship a god of law and blind obedience, they'll follow road signs) so they arrive at dusk. Upon the setting of the sun, my dark glory will begin.

The Cuthbertites will join the civil war on neither side, slaying men, women, and children without mercy. With the horrible sun gone the Drow will rise from the Underdark as the Orcs maraud into Elvish towns. My dark army of poisonous undead will only feed their ranks with elven, human, and Orcish dead as the war continues. The green of old forests will be red with fire and blood. Demons will pour forth to lead the charge, dragons will light the night sky with fire, and I will survey the battle from the top of the first dragon that followed me, his reward come at last. As the battle rages on, some of my undead horde - those with rudimentary intelligence yet physically incapable of disobeying - will gather all the elves' enchanted crafts in the middle of a massive ritual circle made from the stinking corpses of dead elves, painted with runes of blood. With each elven death a soul will flow unto me and give me power to control ever more minions and cast even more horrible spells on the battlefield. The trees will fall to ash and the ground will be torn asunder as the slaughter continues.

Then the sun will rise, and the horrible true nature of my plan will become obvious.

The drow and orcs, exhausted from battle, will recoil from the horrible, burning dawn - but they will be so far into elven lands they cannot escape from the light into the Underdark or their warrens. They will be crushed beneath the hammers of the Cuthbertites and the claws my undead - then the stupid worshippers of a stupider god with die in dragonflame. Each death will empower me due to the boon Grumush granted me - and speaking of Grumush, even he will realize my betrayal when the worshippers die in their moment of triumph over the elves. It matter not. Each death makes me stronger, and each orc that dies makes Grumush weaker. He won't have the power to stop me, nor will anyone once my plan is finished.

The dragons will finish off the few survivors. The demons will return to the abyss when the spells that bind them here expire. The elves, Cuthbertites, drow, and orcs are dead, and my army of undead, under my control only by virtue of the souls I have absorbed, is bloated with new recruits.

Then I will release control of the undead.

The entire army will be berserk. Many will crumble to dust when I let go of my magic, but some will rampage throughout the countryside. Not my problem. I have kept my true power hidden, especially from my patron Grumush, by keeping such a huge horde of minions. No longer. I expect to have the power of at least a demigod- more, once I absorb the magic from the enchanted weapons and crafts of an entire species in a ritual fueled with elven flesh and bones. I will take that power and travel to Avrandor and visit Corellon Larethian, who by this time is as weak as a pointy-eared infant from the loss of all his worshippers. I will kill him with my bare hands and absorb his remaining power and the non-elf parts of his portfolio. I will do the same for the rest of the Seldarine, and then raise them as horrible, undead abominations fully under my control.

By this point, Grumush is worried - as he should be. On my way to the Abyss I will swing by his home, kill the weakened fool, and absorb his portfolio as well. The battle will be hard, but I will be far more powerful than he and it will be trivial to destroy his Orcish minions and resurrect them into twisted mockeries of life. Afterwards, I will visit the weakened Lolth and explain my entire plan in great detail. After she bows before the true master of treachery, thus surrendering that part of her portfolio to a more worthy deity, I will kill her and any other elven gods, which are by now so weak they cannot stop me. I will ascend to greater godhood, a god of death, betrayal, and triumph. With the powers of a god I will use my undead servants to hunt down every last remaining being of more than half elven blood and kill them. Then, I will gather the undead elven gods before me. One by one, I will release them from their bondage and condemn them to the oblivion. I will release Corellon Larethian last, but not before basking in the beautiful irony of it all. As he was the first elf and that hated race's creator, so is he last to truly die, broken, beaten, and enslaved.

Jack Mann
2006-06-08, 01:42 PM
snip

Therapy, son. Therapy.

Maryring
2006-06-08, 01:45 PM
Yes. Listen to the wise old man. Therapy will do you good. I happen to have the phone number to a good doctor. Do you want it? ::)

The Demented One
2006-06-08, 01:46 PM
Elves.

I hate elves. HATE Elves...

Would you mind being my next BBEG?

Majin_Gojira
2006-06-08, 02:21 PM
Limited HtH rules/Grappling rules

I want to Choke People! Body Slam them through chairs in a barroom braw! Throw some pore shmuck throw the window and then stomp a shmoe underfoot WITHOUG Improved Grapple.

I'll take the negative Modifier, but I still want to try it!

Some DMs won't let me... :-[

The_Final_Dream
2006-06-08, 02:22 PM
Would you mind being my next BBEG?

Not all.




Therapy, son. Therapy.

Therapy, total destruction of a fictional race - whatever.

I don't actually hate elves that much, just the incredible proliferation of subraces. I just enjoyed writing that way too much. A cookie to anyone that reads the whole thing.

Scorpina
2006-06-08, 02:28 PM
A cookie to anyone that reads the whole thing.

I'd like my cookie, please. ;D

Maryring
2006-06-08, 02:35 PM
*cashes in cookie check.*

So when can I expect my cookie? ;D

Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick
2006-06-08, 02:36 PM
Isn't anyone the least bit suspicious that these are going to be, say, poison cookies?
Heck, if he wants to save time, poison cookies with a large opal worth 25gp in each.

Maryring
2006-06-08, 02:42 PM
What? It's a netcookie. It's not like I'm going to eat it. Don't you know how useful netcookies are for creating A+ projects in science class? ;D

Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick
2006-06-08, 02:44 PM
What? It's a netcookie. It's not like I'm going to eat it. Don't you know how useful netcookies are for creating A+ projects in science class? ;D
Point taken.
I'd like a cookie, then.
Cuz' I read all the way through. o.o;

{Plus I have a +4 racial bonus against poison...}

Jack Mann
2006-06-08, 02:44 PM
You'll notice I didn't ask for a cookie, proving once again that divination is the best school to specialize in.

Maryring
2006-06-08, 02:47 PM
Mjaa. Diviners are wonderful, as long as you don't choose Abjuration as your forbidden school. Abjuration and Divination back each other up wonderfully.

Devils_Advocate
2006-06-08, 03:30 PM
Wizards. Every other spellcasting class has a reason for their power, whether it's faith, discipline or exotic heritage. Wizards ... read a few books? Then why don't all the literate classes cast spells?
For the same reason that not all computer-literate people design their own software.

What, you think hacking the underlying substrate of reality itself is easier? You're mistaken in excluding wizards from the "discipline" category. Wizardry surely requires either discipline or preternatural talent.

The_Final_Dream
2006-06-08, 04:02 PM
Isn't anyone the least bit suspicious that these are going to be, say, poison cookies?
Heck, if he wants to save time, poison cookies with a large opal worth 25gp in each.

That's absolutely brilliant and I wish I thought of it.

... cookie?
http://www.jamesshuggins.com/i/web1/cookie.jpg

Maryring
2006-06-08, 04:52 PM
*takes a cookie and runs it through a blender.*

This will only take a minute...

Okay, got it. I've made the anti poison cookie. Anyone need an antidote? ;D

Alchemistmerlin
2006-06-08, 04:56 PM
*takes a cookie and runs it through a blender.*

This will only take a minute...

Okay, got it. I've made the anti poison cookie. Anyone need an antidote? ;D


Wait...all you did was blend that...

::shrug:: *Drinks liquid poision cookie*

Duergar immunities ;D


Oh crap I'm a gnome *dies*

ReluctantDragon
2006-06-08, 04:57 PM
Elves.

I hate elves. *HATE Elves



That was the most beautiful thing I have read in a long while. Thank you for that journey.

ExHunterEmerald
2006-06-08, 05:08 PM
o_O
Sheesh, I was just gonna ask if anyone wanted oatmeal or chocolate chip...
The poison is in the macaroons.
I have embraced madness! I am fell power!
UAAAAAAAAAH HA HA HA HAAAAAA!!!

The Demented One
2006-06-08, 05:56 PM
Warforged do not fear your poisoned cookies. Bring it, meatsack!

Brickwall
2006-06-08, 06:03 PM
I hate thread-jackers. And a few types of cookies. Like poison cookies.

Dark Knight Renee
2006-06-08, 06:04 PM
Does the oatmeal cookie come with or without raisens?


Also, I hate the imbalence between spellcasters and others at high levels. If I want decent abilities in, say, the Ranger class, the party Cleric is gonna have more spells than he knows what to do with. Especially in larger parties... *shudder*

ExHunterEmerald
2006-06-08, 06:04 PM
The cookies are seasoned with despair. And raisins.


Warforged do not fear your poisoned cookies. Bring it, meatsack!

Ah, perhaps. But my first fandom was Megaman X.
C'mere, warforged, I'll show you how it's done!
*plasma spray!*

archivist
2006-06-08, 06:26 PM
I hate how evirons can not support the creatures that inhabit them.

I hate the explanation A wizard did it for something unexplanable and a drunk wizard did it for something stupid

I hate how no one complains about humans

I hate fey

I hate the fact that no adventurers have to perform the mundane things needed for everyday survival i.e. eating or bathing except for fluff.

I hate how rest is defined. I can rest and have a conversation at the same time.

NEO|Phyte
2006-06-08, 06:35 PM
I hate the fact that no adventurers have to perform the mundane things needed for everyday survival i.e. eating or bathing except for fluff.
Low level characters have it hard enoguh without having to worry about failing an eating check and starving/choking to death

Munchy
2006-06-08, 06:36 PM
I forgot this before.

All the damned half-X templates out there. It seems that every critter in the MM is out to "get it on" with humans. I'm surprised that I haven't heard of half-vampires or half-liches. All the other philias have been covered, what are they waiting for?

I can see it already..."Libris Mortis II : Even the undead need love"

PUKE!!!

Dark Knight Renee
2006-06-08, 06:43 PM
There IS a half-vampire, actually... It's either in LM or BoVD.

Munchy
2006-06-08, 06:46 PM
How disturbing.

ReluctantDragon
2006-06-08, 06:46 PM
Half - vampires are out there. So weep, my friend, weep. *DARN SIMU-POST*

I hate arguments concerning the balance of classes at high levels.

I hate arguments concerning the balance of powergaming.

I hate arguments concerning the balance of races.

I hate arguments concerning the balance of weapons.

For every person that posts, there is a different opinion concerning all of these. Its like which came first? The chicken or the egg? It will be argued until the stupidity kills the human race. And then chickens will rule the world.

All hail the master race!!!! Bock bock bockock!!!!

Munchy
2006-06-08, 06:48 PM
Its like which came first? The chicken or the egg?

The egg came first. This is a "paradox" that lost all of its power when the theory of evolution came around...

Dark Knight Renee
2006-06-08, 06:51 PM
I hate balance :p


... unfortunately, I can't do away with it x_x

Akiosama
2006-06-08, 06:51 PM
Um.. question... why is every half-breed paired up with humans? Are we the fantasy sex-toy for every other race out there in existence? Just seems kinda odd, that everything from the orc around the corner, to the dragon over there wants to mate with a human... ;)

My 2 yen,

Get it on!

Akio

Jack Mann
2006-06-08, 06:57 PM
There IS a half-vampire, actually... It's either in LM or BoVD.

In their defense, the dhampir was an established part of European mythology even before Bram Stoker made vampires sexy.


I hate balance :p


... unfortunately, I can't do away with it x_x

Why not? Wizards didn't seem to find it all that difficult.

ReluctantDragon
2006-06-08, 07:03 PM
The egg came first. This is a "paradox" that lost all of its power when thetheoryof evolution came around...

Emphasis mine

One could ask how a theory could make a paradox(an idea) invalid. However that is only adding to an argument that has no place here. ;D

I also hate elves. But The_Final_Dream's post is a hard one to follow.

The_Logic_Ninja
2006-06-08, 07:15 PM
One could ask that.
By asking that, one would show that one doesn't know what a scientific theory is. Hint: it's not the same as the lay meaning of "theory", which is "guess".

The theory of evolution describes the fact of evolution.

Sciurusaurus
2006-06-08, 07:29 PM
One could ask that.
By asking that, one would show that one doesn't know what a scientific theory is. Hint: it's not the same as the lay meaning of "theory", which is "guess".

The theory of evolution describes the fact of evolution.

Now you are taking it a bit too far in the other direction. A scientific theory is the CURRENT version of what our empirical evidence makes most credible.

It's far more solid than a guess, but it's seldom meant as the fact of things. More correctly would be : "this is what it would be most reasonable to assume with the evidence we have today".

The theory of evolution describes the most recently updated compilation of empirical evidence, and the conclusions that the scientific society has agreed to draw from them (or at least what most members of the scientific society draws from them).

It does NOT describe "the fact of evolution".

This is not meant as an "attack on evolution", which I happen to agree is the most believable account of how we arrived at our current biosphere based upon what we have discovered so far. But I tend to get annoyed when people talk about scientific theories as proven facts. They are not.

The_Logic_Ninja
2006-06-08, 07:35 PM
No. Scientific theories are tested explanations of facts with predictive properties. The Theory of Evolution--which has been updated and will be again--explains the fact of evolution, which is thoroughly evidenced and observed.

Sciurusaurus
2006-06-08, 07:42 PM
No. Scientific theories are tested explanations of facts with predictive properties. The Theory of Evolution--which has been updated and will be again--explains the fact of evolution, which is thoroughly evidenced and observed.

A later update may show that something we held for "fact" today is erroneous. As science develops, we gain more and more knowledge, which sometimes also shows us that older knowledge is outdated or even false. Which is why science use the word "theory" and not "fact".

Also, macro-evolution (which is a part of evolution theory) is hardly "thoroughly evidenced and observed". There is a lot of "circumstancial evidence" that lend creedence to macro-evolution, but that is not the same as "solid evidence".

SpiderBrigade
2006-06-08, 07:43 PM
No. Scientific theories are tested explanations of facts with predictive properties. The Theory of Evolution--which has been updated and will be again--explains the fact of evolution, which is thoroughly evidenced and observed.

Yes. Whether or not evolution explains "where we come from" or whatever, is still in the realm of (heavily supported) theory, but the fact that "evolution happens" is not. You can test it with bacteria.

The Glyphstone
2006-06-08, 07:43 PM
Utterly irrational hatred of mine: Tangent discussions that aren't about listing new irration hatreds? ;)

oh, and as mentioned: alignment exxagerations. Lawful Good/Stupid, Chaotic Evil/Psycho...

The_Final_Dream
2006-06-08, 07:53 PM
One could ask that.
By asking that, one would show that one doesn't know what a scientific theory is. Hint: it's not the same as the lay meaning of "theory", which is "guess".

The theory of evolution describes the fact of evolution.

People not understanding the theory of evolution is one of my pet peeves, but that's not a gaming peeve.

Speaking of evolution, rapid evolution is another hatred I have. It seems that, even in the abscence of powerful magic, subraces so different they have different ability modifiers can appear in just a few hundred years. In reality, no ethnicity in the real world has anything near different inherent stat mods, despite the isolation of the east and west hemispheres for 10,000 years (since the last ice age). This is even worse for longer-lived races like elves and dwarves because they have longer generation times. How an subrace of a race that has 500 year generations appears in less than 2000 years is anyone's guess. It probably involves powerful magic, a demented spellcaster, and the complete absence of sense.

Half-breeds are also annoying when both species are normal mortals. Half-elves, dwarf-trolls, quarterlings* - they all make no sense. At least half-dragons and half-outsiders have a load of magic behind them.

*one day I will play a half-halfling just so I can write quarterling on my character sheet.

The_Logic_Ninja
2006-06-08, 07:58 PM
A later update may show that something we held for "fact" today is erroneous. As science develops, we gain more and more knowledge, which sometimes also shows us that older knowledge is outdated or even false. Which is why science use the word "theory" and not "fact".
No.
A scientific theory isn't a "but we could be wrong" clause. A scientific theory is "a set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena."

Scientific theories explain facts. "But we could one day find out we're wrong" has nothing to do with it. There are things we have observed and tested. Evolution is one of those. Things evolve--it's a fact. The Theory of Evolution describes how (and why, which is the same thing in scientific terms) this happens, and it does get modified (i.e. the addition of the concept of punctuated equilibrium) when we learn more.

Evolution is a fact--like gravity, like relativity. Note how we also have a Theory of Gravity and a Theory of Relativity. Does that mean gravity might not really exist? Dun dun DUNN!


Also, macro-evolution (which is a part of evolution theory) is hardly "thoroughly evidenced and observed". There is a lot of "circumstancial evidence" that lend creedence to macro-evolution, but that is not the same as "solid evidence".
No, there's some pretty damn solid evidence, from the fossil record to observed speciation--if that's not macroevolution nothing is.

What's more, "micro/macroevolution" is a completely artificial division. How are macro and microevolution different? Do they somehow work differently? Is there some magical barrier that prevents any more changes when another few would prevent reproduction with the majority of the current species?
There is no difference between microevolution and macroevolution. It's the exact same forces at work.

NEO|Phyte
2006-06-08, 08:06 PM
*one day I will play a half-halfling just so I can write quarterling on my character sheet.
heh, I know how quarterlings are made.

It starts with a female pirate halfling seducing a cleric of Pelor...

Munchy
2006-06-08, 08:10 PM
ReluctantDragon, I was going to let that response sleep, but I now feel compelled to answer.

A paradox need not be strictly logical. When attempting to find a resolution to a paradox it is perfectly valid to look at the scientific theories for the phenomena relevant to the particular paradox. The following link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox goes over this topic. In particular, note that the resolution of the self-filling flask paradox involves physics.

The following is the paradoxical portion of the chicken and the egg argument:

Speaker1 : The chicken (Chx0) laid the egg so it came first.

Speaker2 : But that chicken (Chx0) came from an egg (Egg0) so the egg came first.

Speaker1 : But that egg (Egg0) came from another chicken (Chx1) so the chicken came first.

Speaker2: But that chicken (Chx1) came from another egg (Egg1) so the egg came first.

Speaker 1 and 2 : We could continue this indefinitely because for every egg there is a chicken before it and for every chicken there is an egg before it. This argument can't be resolved and is a paradox.

If we go by the theory of evolution, then if one were to continue the argument long enough one would end up with some creature that is not a chicken but that still lays eggs. While coming up with the exact point at which the critter is or is not a chicken would be tricky, if we go back far enough (Say 100 millon years) we will have something that is definitely not a chicken but that lays eggs. Paradox resolved.

Now, even if you are someone that does not believe that the theory of evolution is even remotely correct (Say a creationist) odds are that the paradox will still have a resolution. If you believe that God created the world a few thousand years ago and that God created the animals as we know them, then the answer is obvious : God created the chicken first.

In either case almost any belief about the origin of chickens that does not allow for a species going arbitrarily far back in time (Read infinitely far back) with no change will allow for a resolution to the paradox. *


Utterly irrational hatred of mine: Tangent discussions that aren't about listing new irration hatreds?

Oh man. How do you manage to survive message boards and forums without having an aneurism?

Sciurusaurus
2006-06-08, 08:26 PM
No.
A scientific theory isn't a "but we could be wrong" clause. A scientific theory is "a set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena."

Explaining facts is not the same as being facts. To go on one of your other examples, the theory of gravity. An apple falls to the ground here on earth. That is the known fact. The theory explains our current understanding of the forces behind this.

However, this understanding grows and changes as out methods of examining the universe improves. If the current theory is indeed "facts", that closes the door on accepting that our interpretations of the forces of gravity may be erroneous due to our current level of technological advancement.



Evolution is a fact--like gravity, like relativity. Note how we also have a Theory of Gravity and a Theory of Relativity. Does that mean gravity might not really exist? Dun dun DUNN!

You are mixing definitions here. That the phenomenon the theory tries to explain is a fact, doesn't make the explanation a fact.


No, there's some pretty damn solid evidence, from the fossil record to observed speciation--if that's not macroevolution nothing is.

The fossil record still has a lot of blanks.

And on "observed speciation", if you are talking about what I think you are talking about, then I would not count it as a heavyweight support for macro-evolution as you do. The observed speciation of sexually reproducing species I know of doesn't involve too much of radical new changes.



What's more, "micro/macroevolution" is a completely artificial division. How are macro and microevolution different? Do they somehow work differently? Is there some magical barrier that prevents any more changes when another few would prevent reproduction with the majority of the current species?
There is no difference between microevolution and macroevolution. It's the exact same forces at work.

Microevolution is a heck of a lot easier to test and document.

Also, there is this little thing about sustainable reproductive populace. Macroevolution requires the change to be "bred" into a large enough populace to sustain the change, microevolution doesn't, since the evolved specimen still can reproduce with the rest of the species. Of course, this is moot with single-cell organisms and the like, but for sexually reproductive species, this is an important divide between micro and macro evolution.

The Demented One
2006-06-08, 08:28 PM
Utterly irrational hatred of mine: Tangent discussions that aren't about listing new irration hatreds? ;)

How many of those have we had on this thread alone? 4chan1, evolution...anything else?

1Mea Culpa.

The_Logic_Ninja
2006-06-08, 08:33 PM
...
You're missing what I'm saying.

There is a fact, evolution, and an explanation, the Theory of Evolution. They are two separate things. Arguing that the theory is wrong is one thing; arguing that the fact isn't a fact is another. It's like arguing that brick houses don't exist.

"The fossil record has a lot of blanks"... like what? how do these blanks somehow render the theory incorrect or invalid?


For "observed speciation", I'm not talking about just one thing. There's many cases. Ring species, off the top of my head, are a good example--speciation is "macroevolution", one species becoming another or multiple. We've observed this. If two creatures can't produce fertile offspring, they're different species.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/speciation.html
There's some records of observed cases of speciation.

TheThan
2006-06-08, 08:36 PM
I have an irrational hatred of abbreviations used for such words as “prestige class” and “player’s handbook”, on message boards. I know it is supposed to make typing out some names and words easier and faster, but hell it still bothers me for no reason!

BobGhengisKhan
2006-06-08, 08:36 PM
Wizards. Every other spellcasting class has a reason for their power, whether it's faith, discipline or exotic heritage. Wizards ... read a few books? Then why don't all the literate classes cast spells?

Oddly enough, this is how it works in the Ultima universe. In a story included in one of the game books that came with Ultima V, a lumberjack casts a healing spell on his leg after he accidentally gashes it open with his axe.

ReluctantDragon
2006-06-08, 08:52 PM
ReluctantDragon, I was going to let that response sleep, but I now feel compelled to answer.



Munchy, I was not arguing that the paradox of the chicken and the egg was in fact the paradox, or that it could be solved by a scientific basis of thought.

I was arguing however, that an IDEA(theory) can in no way resolve a paradox, that I've seen. The discussion, ad nauseam, of the theory of evolution in this very thread is a great example.

Now then I used the chicken/egg paradox as a humorous(I thought ???) metaphor for the discussions of balance that plague these forums.

Much as one can cite empirical/scientific evidence for the theory of evolution, as well as creationism, the same person, if they played D&D, can cite many personal observations, statistics on average numbers for whatever the balance issue is, FOR BOTH SIDES.

Now then if my original contention elicited this response from you that caused the disagreement, then please allow me to cordially revoke that statement and apologize for my lack of clarity.

For I now stand in complete accord with your response, The egg did come first. Unless it was the chicken.

;D


*EDIT* (to get back on topic)
Warlocks. Warlocks need to go back to whatever abyssal mind they were spawned from and never return. I hate warlocks.

Oh yeah. Psionics. The worlds that are out there would be so much better off if psionics went the way of the dodo or the mammoth or the sabretooth tiger(eh? eh? Get it? Evolution? Survival of the Fittest? Eh? Come on!!!! Its funny!)

Also I dislike psionics because Vorpal Tribble likes them so much and makes all these grand psionic beasties and he's SOOOO in the cool crowd these days. *sniff* Didn't even pick me for his pbp game *sniff* :'( :'(

There how's that for irrational!

Leperflesh
2006-06-08, 09:13 PM
DNA, and methods of hybridization, speciation, and cross-breeding, and even the definition of species, are all A lot more complicated than you think (http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html).

There is a substantial and reliable record of observed speciation in multi-cellular organisms.

-Lep

Truthseeker
2006-06-08, 09:40 PM
**snipped amusingly elaborate blueprint for elven extermination**


It's a shame you've done all that planning, friend, because we all know that you're going to be foiled by a lone munched-out bladesinger. Isn't that what we all just love about elves?

**an aide appears, whispers something in Truthseeker's ear**

Excuse me, sorry about that, wrong edition. We all know that you're going to be foiled by a lone munched-out duskblade. Same thing, whatever. ;)

Saithis Bladewing
2006-06-08, 09:44 PM
The Lawful and Chaotic parts of alignment. STUPID! RAGH!

Oh, and of course, emos, goths, preps and basically any other stereotypical "wannabe" who follows a trend because it's cool or 'rebellious' or whatever.

Blaze
2006-06-08, 10:01 PM
For those of you arguing about the chicken and the egg.... the egg actually came first :o

Some scientists apparently proved it so. Apparently some other sort of creature that laid eggs back in the day dropped one down and through magic, the thing that came out was a chicken instead of what it normally would have been... evolution at its finest. :-*

The_Final_Dream
2006-06-08, 10:24 PM
It's a shame you've done all that planning, friend, because we all know that you're going to be foiled by a lone munched-out bladesinger. Isn't that what we all just love about elves?

**an aide appears, whispers something in Truthseeker's ear**

Excuse me, sorry about that, wrong edition. We all know that you're going to be foiled by a lone munched-out duskblade. Same thing, whatever. ;)


Yeah, I know. If that doesn't happen I'll be removed from godhood in an elaborate, multi-part module that changes the fabric of the universe. But with cleric levels and abnormally high wealth for my level from preying on sentient beings, I have a good chance of at least living until the final melee.

Dark Knight Renee
2006-06-08, 10:32 PM
Enough evolution. Thats almost as bad as bringing in religion or abortion, and it's hijacking the thread.


I hate balance :p

... unfortunately, I can't do away with it x_x
--

Why not? Wizards didn't seem to find it all that difficult.

Wizards and clerics and the magic system in general are WHY I can't ignore balance. Protect the casters? Hahahahaha! More like, cower behind the caster several levels lower than you while they pwn the enemy. They can also scry and teleport, and do many other things a fighter type could never dream of. To some extent it's a result of the inexperiance of my entire group at DMing, but, well, they're still too powerful.

Which is why, in my new game, primary spellcasters must multiclass. Because I hate those high-level spells so... Particularly spells like Discern Location, Raise Dead, etc. A reasonably wealthy high-level PC laughs at the GP cost on the later, especially if the rest of the party is willing to pitch in for their own rezing.

Devils_Advocate
2006-06-08, 10:41 PM
Um.. question... why is every half-breed paired up with humans? Are we the fantasy sex-toy for every other race out there in existence? Just seems kinda odd, that everything from the orc around the corner, to the dragon over there wants to mate with a human... ;)
Of course it seems odd if you try to explain it with the assumption that some members of every race are attracted to humans. That would require strangely similar preferences to be present in a vast array of species. Approach the problem from the opposite angle, though, and it makes far more sense.

4chan1 Rule #34: There exists NOTHING that is not featured in internet pornography somewhere.

Think about what this says about humans, and be enlightened.

1It's a relevant reference! Really!


Scientific theories explain facts. "But we could one day find out we're wrong" has nothing to do with it.
Are you sure? I thought that falsifiability was part of what qualifies a theory as scientific.


Evolution is a fact--like gravity, like relativity. Note how we also have a Theory of Gravity and a Theory of Relativity. Does that mean gravity might not really exist? Dun dun DUNN!
No, it's not that a scientific theory implies that something might not be true; it's that it DOESN'T establish that something is DEFINITELY true. We can determine that the world we experience consistantly obeys certain rules, but that doesn't prove what makes those rules work. Science can't prove, for example, that the material universe isn't really illusory. We can only test how well a theory predicts what we observe; whether it's "true" and whether the things it describes "really exist" are ultimately metaphysical questions.


I was arguing however, that an IDEA(theory) can in no way resolve a paradox, that I've seen.
What do you mean by "resolve a paradox"? What do you mean when you write about a paradox being "invalid" or not?

Philosopher 1: See, either the chicken or the egg must have come first, but an egg can only come from a chicken, and a chicken can only come from an egg.
Philosopher 2: But according to one theory, not every egg need come from a chicken. So if we accept that theory, we can reject one of the assumptions that lead to a contradiction. No more paradox!

If that doesn't qualify as "resolution", what does?

Jermwar
2006-06-09, 12:07 AM
*one day I will play a half-halfling just so I can write quarterling on my character sheet.

Wouldn't a half-halfling be a three-quarterling?

Sorry, Ill go back to lurking now. Cheers.

The_Final_Dream
2006-06-09, 01:09 AM
No, no - but you raise a legitimate point. Allow me to prove my terminology is correct, for the doubters:

A halfling is half a ling, or (ling)/2 . When you make a half breed, you have half the non-human race, or (race)/2. When you take half a halfling, you get (ling/2)/2, or ling/4 - a quarter of a ling, or quarterling!

This raises a rather disturbing question: what is a ling? Because the halfling (more properly, as we have seen, half-ling) seems to be a half-human, half ling crossbreed, there must exist a ling somewhere in the multiverse. I can give a few guesses about the mysterious ling:

Since halfbreeds mix both halves of the parents about evenly (barring dragons), if a human (0-ling) is medium and a half-ling (ling/2) is small, a ling must be tiny, because the average of medium and tiny is small. Lings must also have the ability modifiers that come with being tiny.

Lings are almost always rogues. Why? Humans have no favored class and half-lings has favored class rogue. The only way to get this is for the ling to be more restricted than the half-ling. Note the half-elf's favored class of any and the fact that half-orcs descend from humans and the almost always warrior or barbarian orc. These examples lend support to my hypothesis.

Lings must be very lucky, as half-lings are lucky and humans are not lucky. Since no one has ever seen a ling, and such a lucky race could not have died out, they must all be hiding. Half-lings are good at not being seen and humans are average at not being seen, so lings must be amazing at not being seen.

This mysterious, formerly unknown race of lucky, sneaky rogues must have mated with humans some time in the distant past and produced half-lings. Through the ages, lings disapeared (well, people actually just stopped noticing them) so the hyphen was dropped. Thus, the half-ling.

Jack Mann
2006-06-09, 05:31 AM
Facts:
Natural selection occurs. The planet is billions of years old. There are species that are around today that were not around millions of years ago, and species that were around millions of years ago are not around today. We can, by looking through the fossil record, trace apparent changes in species to the present day. In the present day, we can observe speciation.

These are all facts. They are not theory.

The theory is that natural selection is responsible for new species arising. It is the best (and only plausible) explanation we have. It's almost a fact, but not quite. After all, it might not be your parents leaving money under your pillow for your lost teeth. It might be the tooth fairy. Or maybe the quarters just spontaneously generated from pillow fluff. But odds are, it's your parents, or some other human agency.

Maryring
2006-06-09, 06:47 AM
All the damned half-X templates out there. It seems that every critter in the MM is out to "get it on" with humans. I'm surprised that I haven't heard of half-vampires or half-liches. All the other philias have been covered, what are they waiting for?

I can see it already..."Libris Mortis II : Even the undead need love"

PUKE!!!

On that, I have to say ditto. However, there is something even worse, and that is...


Um.. question... why is every half-breed paired up with humans? Are we the fantasy sex-toy for every other race out there in existence? Just seems kinda odd, that everything from the orc around the corner, to the dragon over there wants to mate with a human...

Which was answered with...


Of course it seems odd if you try to explain it with the assumption that some members of every race are attracted to humans. That would require strangely similar preferences to be present in a vast array of species. Approach the problem from the opposite angle, though, and it makes far more sense.

4chan1 Rule #34: There exists NOTHING that is not featured in internet pornography somewhere.

Think about what this says about humans, and be enlightened.

And my response is :-X followed by the incredible urge to find proof of this preposterous claim, if for no other reason than to utterly destroy it, as truly, such vile things can not be true.

Please tell me that such pornographic material does not exsist. :'(

Murky_Pool
2006-06-09, 07:05 AM
Sorry, he's right and it's got Britney Spears in it as well (as all such things do).

Another one from me

Work. I hate it utterly, I can't find a different job and the reason I hate it is because I'm lazy and post on forums rather than doing work.

Sir_Banjo
2006-06-09, 07:12 AM
High-level magic. I find it stretches belief that a society with access to what is essentially modern technology would still be stuck in the middle-ages. BAH!

The_Logic_Ninja
2006-06-09, 07:18 AM
Except that the magic is VERY expensive, and availible to a VERY select few.

ExHunterEmerald
2006-06-09, 08:28 AM
Jets are extremely expensive.
Maybe set up teleport fees for rapid travel. Get a bunch of people to scrape up the money to cover the cost and pop!

OzymandiasVolt
2006-06-09, 09:08 AM
People who hijack an irrational hatreds thread with a discussion about evolution, which is essentially religion territory.

Gorbash Kazdar
2006-06-09, 09:57 AM
Comrade Gorby: The discussion of evolution and what constitutes a scientific theory is most certainly off topic here, and has a strong tendency to wander into areas that are explicitely off topic for the forum as a whole (religion & politics). In other words, let's move away from that discussion and let it lie from here on.

Goff
2006-06-09, 10:08 AM
Aquatic subraces.
I cannot stand them, my hatred for them escapes the bounds of the fact that they're simply illogocal. I can come up with no real reason for my utter hatred for them, but every time I see or hear of say aquatic elves, I simply want to pull out my DnD trawler, drop the nets down in their underwater towns/cities/shanties, haul them in and tin em up with all the tuna and dolphin.

silverdreamdancer
2006-06-09, 11:41 AM
Just in relation to the hatred of elves...

Get a very dedicated person to travel around the elven kingdoms with some form of sterlising agent to drop into the food and drink or every community they pass. They have long lives and a very low borth rate. Who would notice if the elven populations birthrate declined over a thousand years.

Admittedly you wouldn't live to see your work completed but I'm sure a determined human could visit almost every elven settlement in their lifetime.

Also Egg comes first, the entity whose decendents would eventually become chickens (probably a distinct bird species) laid eggs (as did virtually every creature since the development of multi-celluar organisms) so eggs in general existed long before chickens.

The Demented One
2006-06-09, 12:47 PM
4chan1 Rule #34: There exists NOTHING that is not featured in internet pornography somewhere.

Close, but no cigar. It's a rule of the internet, not just 4chan, and the phrase is "There is porn of it. No exceptions."

Slash_Z
2006-06-09, 01:49 PM
Internet = Porn. Always ^^

Maryring
2006-06-09, 02:06 PM
*the sound of glass shattering.*

"Hello. I'm the fluffy wuffy white bunny known as Maryring's now way too fragile hope. I am here to inform you that Maryring is taking a short break of sanity while the vile truth is confronted... okay, done. Nice talking to you."

*boing*

Did you hear that? :-[

Erm, ANYWAY... is "hating humanity for perversion" an irrational hatred? And is hating myself for wanting to delve deeper into this in search for destroyable proof also an irrational hatred?

Because I am pretty sure that they aren't.

Brickwall
2006-06-09, 02:30 PM
They are pretty irrational, actually. People enjoy sexual stimulus. We were MADE that way. All of us. That includes the visual kind. Otherwise, we wouldn't reproduce.

Anyway, to end this discussion of porn, I present proof that cannot be refuted. Click only with the permission of a mature person. In other words, probably nobody on this board XP And before you ask, it is safe for work as long as you keep the speakers low (it's a song with the word porn in it many times, and a couple naughty references). I found it on these boards a while ago...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4446981554735098778

Back to ACTUALLY irrational hatreds:

Those insect things from XPH. I have no reason to hate them, they're well-made, I just hate 'em. Irrational enough?

Artisan
2006-06-09, 02:40 PM
Dwarves drinking beer.

Seriously. I like dwarves, I love the way a lot of their culture/background mixes medieval europe and feudal japan, but I hate the way they drink beer. They're supposed to be a race that leaves primarily udnerground, right? If that's the case, why would they farm on the surface? I can understand (to an extent) farming underground, but surely they would stick to their traditions and drink something they could esasily obtain. Such a roots. And with their naturally hardy constitution, they'll want something with a bit more kick than beer.

Dwarves drink MOONSHINE, damnit!

By the same token, elves (traditionally concerned with the state of forests etc) would cut down swathes of it to grow vineyards. They would use what they have. Like honey. Elves, in my humble opinion, should drink mead (lovely stuff, really).

Apart from that...

Drow. I don't know, there's just something about them that really irritates me... no offence to anyone who enjoys playing them, of course, they're just not my cup of tea...

Wolf53226
2006-06-09, 02:51 PM
Hotdogs...Granted, I know what is legally allowed in them, so that may make it rational. Anyway....

railroading DM's...what if I don't want to do x

The_Logic_Ninja
2006-06-09, 02:57 PM
Elves drink moonshine, too.
Only for them it's literal.

CockroachTeaParty
2006-06-09, 03:10 PM
Spellthieves... I've never seen them do anything but stand there. Why not just play a commoner? Because at least then I would forgive your ineptitude.

Divine Minds... ARRRGH!!! NOOOO!!!

Savage Species... I suppose this one is more rational. Such a good idea... but so horribley, horrribley broken. *cries*

Fhaolan
2006-06-09, 03:46 PM
Dwarves drinking beer.

Seriously. I like dwarves, I love the way a lot of their culture/background mixes medieval europe and feudal japan, but I hate the way they drink beer. They're supposed to be a race that leaves primarily udnerground, right? If that's the case, why would they farm on the surface? I can understand (to an extent) farming underground, but surely they would stick to their traditions and drink something they could esasily obtain. Such a roots. And with their naturally hardy constitution, they'll want something with a bit more kick than beer.

Dwarves drink MOONSHINE, damnit!

By the same token, elves (traditionally concerned with the state of forests etc) would cut down swathes of it to grow vineyards. They would use what they have. Like honey. Elves, in my humble opinion, should drink mead (lovely stuff, really).

Apart from that...

Drow. I don't know, there's just something about them that really irritates me... no offence to anyone who enjoys playing them, of course, they're just not my cup of tea...

So dwarves get moonshine, elves get mead, and drow only get tea? No wonder they're so angsty. :)

Quixotic
2006-06-09, 07:11 PM
Seriously. I like dwarves, I love the way a lot of their culture/background mixes medieval europe and feudal japan, but I hate the way they drink beer. They're supposed to be a race that leaves primarily udnerground, right? If that's the case, why would they farm on the surface? I can understand (to an extent) farming underground, but surely they would stick to their traditions and drink something they could esasily obtain. Such a roots. And with their naturally hardy constitution, they'll want something with a bit more kick than beer.

Dwarves drink MOONSHINE, damnit!


What about root beer?

Honestly, I always figured that the dwarves are herding and farming in mountain valleys, or else engaged in heavy trade in foodstuffs in order to keep from starving.

Leperflesh
2006-06-09, 08:12 PM
I figure the dwarf--beer connection is a lot like the Italian--tomato connection.

Look, italian food is all about the tomato sauce, right? Thing is, tomatoes are new-world plants. Before the discovery of the new world, there were no tomatoes in europe. Obviously Italian food before 1492 had nothing whatsoever to do with tomato sauce!

Today, they love the stuff.

So I figure, dwarves have co-opted grain. They started out with their own traditional drinks (probably foul stuff made from fungus and cave moss). But then, maybe three or four thousand years ago, they started trading with humans for grains, and beer, and just totally took to it like nobody's business. Nowadays they're the undisputed masters of grain-derived alchoholic beverages.

-Lep

KaroLunel
2006-06-09, 08:29 PM
Anarchic Initiate-WizO made a PrC for Wilders that Psions can enter easily? >:(

Lawful Stupid Paladins-Nobody cares what St. Cuthbert thinks of Psions, Wizards, Binders, Warlocks, and pizza!

DM's who ban psionics-It's just not fair... :'(

Skulks-What's the point?

bosssmiley
2006-06-09, 09:02 PM
Um.. question... why is every half-breed paired up with humans? *Are we the fantasy sex-toy for every other race out there in existence? *Just seems kinda odd, that everything from the orc around the corner, to the dragon over there wants to mate with a human... * ;)

Don't go blaming the other races! What's the one common factor in almost *all* the half-races? Yep, humans. It's us humans (at least the D&D world ones) that are getting into these situations in the first place. Some dungeon-crawling weirdos will stick anything in anything just to see if it feels nice... :P

Remember folks: "Normal people do not date outside their own species!"

Oh, and Artisan, Dwarves drink wine for preference. Vines grow best on relatively infertile hillsides, the fermentation and maturing takes years of patience and careful timing as well as large cool cellars. ;)

Damian
2006-06-09, 09:24 PM
Drow.

Not the race, even though there are so many bondage domination/submission overtones it's not even funny. Not even the players who play to the Drizzt stereotype (that's completely rational). No, it's the pronunciation.

It's Drow! Long O! Like Bow or Throw. Not like "Ow, I'm hurt by the horrible pronunciation"! The first time I heard the "correct" pronunciation was in Baldur's Gate II (which shouldn't be a reflection on the game itself, since it is awesome). Apparently, the D&D pronunciation isn't even the mythologically correct pronunciation anyways.

Argh!

The_Logic_Ninja
2006-06-09, 09:25 PM
Er. And you're getting this from... where?

The mythologically proper pronounciation would be "svartalfar", anyway.

Fhaolan
2006-06-09, 09:29 PM
Er. And you're getting this from... where?

The mythologically proper pronounciation would be "svartalfar", anyway.

Or "trow", depending on exactly which mythology you're following... :)

Damian
2006-06-09, 09:29 PM
... or "Dökkálfar".

The_Logic_Ninja
2006-06-09, 09:29 PM
In any case, mythology doesn't have much to do with D&D.

Speaking of which, I hate it when people feel the need to press mythology or other fantasy onto D&D!

Damian
2006-06-09, 09:33 PM
Yeah, Logic Ninja, but it's like:

"I disagree with your reasoing. It's so irrational!"
"Then that means it fits into this thread better, doesn't it?"

Besides, I like adding mythological elements every so often. You add in something that the players haven't seen before and yet it feels like it's internally consistent already. Good for lazy days.

The_Logic_Ninja
2006-06-09, 09:34 PM
Hey, you know what's a mythological element?

Murder!

*kills Damian in the face until he dies*

Damian
2006-06-09, 09:39 PM
You know what else is a mythological element?

Coming back from the dead!

*Damian comes back from the dead*


But yeah, that's about my only irrational hatred except for maybe people who hate powergamers with a righteous fury that burns with the fires of a thousand suns. Now, you have to understand, when I say powergaming I mean making characters that are powerful. You can be a munchkin (all powergaming, no roleplaying) but that doesn't mean that you can't powergame and roleplay as well. Heck, whenever you chose a +1 sword over a masterwork sword, you're powergaming. It's just that for some people powergaming and anti-roleplaying are intertwined and inseparable.

The_Logic_Ninja
2006-06-09, 09:41 PM
So, I Shapechange into a Sarrukh...

Damian
2006-06-09, 09:54 PM
Ooooh, I just remembered one. This isn't solely D&D related, but it is RPG (and a little bit of other things).

Tentacled monsters are perceived as the most scary/mind-shattering thing possible.

Now, I'm not talking about scary-monster-who-happens-to-have-tentacles-that-actually-make sense (like as feelers or stuff like that). I'm talking about complete tentacle monsters. As in all (or mostly all) tentacles.

I know where the trend started: H.P. Lovecraft. Now, none of his monsters are complete tentacle monsters. Heck, even Cthulhu only had feelers around his mouth (which makes sense since he was octopodial). But really now, newsflash! Tentacle monsters aren't scary unless you actually make them scary! I'm not going to go "oooh, tentacles! I'm scared!" You actually have to put some effort into it! You can make anything scary if you really want! Cute fuzzy dog? Make it scary by making it's cute-fuzzy-dogness a lure to trap innocents.

Argh!

The corollary to this is monsters that are supposed to be "mind-shatteringly insane" and they're not really. Ooooh, instead of a head you have a tentacle, Mr. Uvuudaum*! And six leg-arms! My mind shatters, even though I'm in a high-fantasy setting and I work on a daily basis with things weirder than you!

Argh!

*Note: Hating monsters with unpronounceable names is entirely rational.

EDIT: Oh yeah, Hennet's pants/quarter-shirt are pretty annoying. I mean seriously how long does it take him to put it on each day? A couple hours? Man, that must really stink.

The_Logic_Ninja
2006-06-09, 09:57 PM
Hmm. You know what I irrationally *love*? The Flumphs.

Damian
2006-06-09, 10:02 PM
Since I only started in on D&D in earnest with 3.0 (having been put off 2nd edition by a very horrific DM), I'm not all that familiar with Flumphs. Given the small blurb about them I found on Wikipedia though I can see why people do irrational love them.

Jack Mann
2006-06-09, 10:02 PM
I figure the dwarf--beer connection is a lot like the Italian--tomato connection.

Look, italian food is all about the tomato sauce, right? Thing is, tomatoes are new-world plants. Before the discovery of the new world, there were no tomatoes in europe. Obviously Italian food before 1492 had nothing whatsoever to do with tomato sauce!

Today, they love the stuff.

The connection is because they were among the first to actually eat tomatoes. *See, for the longest time, people believed tomatoes were poisonous, due partly to the fact that they're in the nightshade family, and due partly to the writings of Galen (he wrote about "wolf-apples," which people mistook tomatoes for).

[EDIT: I should mention that I mean people in Europe, here. People in the New World, obviously, had no access to the writings of Galen. This meant that, at least in the case of the Aztecs, they probably had a better idea of human anatomy, too.]

As for drow, it's Scottish. *It was a tiny underground elf that lived in caves and forged metal work, and is etymologically related to troll.

They were influenced in part by the old myths of dark elves, and the Scottish drow, but also by the dero, created by Richard Sharpe Shaver. *Fun guy. *The dero (short for detrimental robots) were the remnants of an advanced prehistoric civilization, who had become mentally impaired sadists living underground. *They would kidnap people from the surface and perform unspeakable torments on them. *Obviously, the drow weren't the only (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derro) race influenced by the dero.

This post has been brought to you by Information You Didn't Want Ltd, a subsidiary of Loremaster Inc.

Damian
2006-06-09, 10:08 PM
This post has been brought to you by Information You Didn't Want Ltd, a subsidiary of Loremaster Inc.


As long as it's not Information You Never Wanted to Know and Weren't Afraid Enough To Know Better Than To Ask Ltd, a subsidiary of Alienist Inc.


EDIT: Oh, and I'm a pretty big fan of Galen. Sure he got some things wrong that today we consider elementary but so did every single other "big name" of the time. I mean, it's basically because of him that the Roman Legion had a successful recovery rate from injuries that was unmatched until World War I.

fluffykins0
2006-06-09, 10:11 PM
I hate it when the dm tells me my lawful good character can't threaten to eat the children of goblins. The daddies are dead, they're just going to starve, and we should eat them or sell them into slavery. Jeez.

I also hate forgotten realms. Stupid epic level characters running around, with the gods just poking their heads in to oblitrate my characters for eating goblin children. Stupid gods!

I hate the gods too! Stupid gods! Always giving me strictures to follow. I'm a paladin not your whipping boy!

And all the enviroment books. Those exist merely to torment innocent creatures. I don't see why i always get sent to freaking frostfell, which is a long way away from where i come from to go save some princess that i don't care about. Stupid cold. Who would live there anyway??? In any of those places. Stupid things, that's who. Sucidal stupid things.

I also hate plot hooks! Why should i follow what the dm has planned? He doesn't have say over what my character does! From now i'm striking out on my own after killing all my teammates in their beds.

Maryring
2006-06-10, 04:11 AM
pretty evil stuff.
I think you just won the price for most irrational hatred, since this seems to be the most irrational by far.

MrNexx
2006-06-10, 02:05 PM
Wizards. Every other spellcasting class has a reason for their power, whether it's faith, discipline or exotic heritage. Wizards ... read a few books? Then why don't all the literate classes cast spells?

Think science. I study history, so I know a fair amount of what's gone before. A friend of mine at school studied chemistry (and likely still does). He could make explosives. The current multi-classing rules mean that anyone who is literate CAN cast spells, if they put enough time and effort into being a 1st level wizard (or a 1st level hedge wizard, which is my NPC class arcane variant of the adept), though I also like havinga feat which allows people to cast cantrips.

MrNexx
2006-06-10, 02:10 PM
I hate balance :p


... unfortunately, I can't do away with it x_x

Two words:

Palladium Books.

Were-Sandwich
2006-06-10, 04:07 PM
I hate my French Teacher. But on a D&D related note, I hate prepared casting with a passion. Did Gandalf sit down at the beginning of the day and try to second guess what would happen? THats why I like spontaneous casting. Or psionics....

Tangent: Does anyone here have really wierd colour assiciations in D&D. I always associate magic with red, and psionics with white. Wierd

Seatbelt
2006-06-11, 12:14 AM
I hate players who take long turns. I've only played a couple characters, most of them have been simple bash or buff-bash characters, but my druid is different. He tries. :P My turns are the most complex in the party, and they resolve the fastest. I spend the time when it's not my turn plotting, planning, and looking up the spell I want to cast so I know exactly what I'm doing. The bard in the party takes 5 minutes to decide to keep singing his song. BLARGDIEBARDFLAMESTRIKEYOUBURN!!!!!

Annalia
2006-06-11, 12:20 AM
Totally agree with this poster ^.

Except for the very first one in init on the very first time, it usually pisses me off. A lot. Which is partly why I love PbP.

Brickwall
2006-06-11, 12:25 AM
I hate my French Teacher. But on a D&D related note, I hate prepared casting with a passion. Did Gandalf sit down at the beginning of the day and try to second guess what would happen? THats why I like spontaneous casting. Or psionics....

Tangent: Does anyone here have really wierd colour assiciations in D&D. I always associate magic with red, and psionics with white. Wierd

Gandalf was a celestial being. However, a guy like him certainly could easily know exactly what spells he would need prepared. Especially since he has unlimited spell slots.

Artisan
2006-06-11, 07:53 AM
I hate how Elves have about 10 billion prestige classes all to themselves.

Hadrian_Emrys
2006-06-11, 10:52 AM
Think science. *I study history, so I know a fair amount of what's gone before. *A friend of mine at school studied chemistry (and likely still does). *He could make explosives. *The current multi-classing rules mean that anyone who is literate CAN cast spells, if they put enough time and effort into being a 1st level wizard (or a 1st level hedge wizard, which is my NPC class arcane variant of the adept), though I also like havinga *feat which allows people to cast cantrips.

I believe Shining South, or one of theother Faerun books dealing Halruaa with a feat that gives anyone the ability to cast cantrips.

Brickwall
2006-06-11, 11:07 AM
I believe Shining South, or one of theother Faerun books dealing Halruaa with a feat that gives anyone the ability to cast cantrips.


Also, Complete Arcane has four or five feats that give sets of spells to anyone, much like the gnome abilities.


I hate how Elves have about 10 billion prestige classes all to themselves.

A-freakin-men!

OzymandiasVolt
2006-06-11, 11:16 AM
The name of the thread should be changed to "Completely Reasonable Hatreds".

MrSeth
2006-06-11, 02:06 PM
PIXIES.

Have you ever tried to fight a pixie assassin? It's impossible. You end up poisoned and drugged, bound by your ankles in some dank slaver's pit. All I want to do is to find all the pixies in the world and toss `em in a Gnomish Clockwork Cusinart.