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Brumski
2011-08-24, 10:42 AM
Hi Playgrounders. A friend of ours is re-joining our D&D nights soon and I wanted to get some advice on how to make sure he had a fun and powerful character. I chatted with him about what he wants his guy to do, and he prefers to play a Ranger, he likes the nature fluff, archery, wants a strong animal companion, and to be a skillful sneaky type. He doesn't need to be a big hitter, but would like to be able to plink monsters with arrows well. In my lurking on these forums I've seen plenty of awesome builds that never occured to me, so help would be appreciated. :smallsmile:

Specific question: Are there feats or an ACF that allow for Druid progression or something similar to the animal companion?

Core and all Completes are open, other sources are allowable once approved by the DM (no psionics or Incarnum).

The rest of the party isn't completely fleshed out yet, but has a monk (with some homebrew fixes) probably a ToB (just got the book) and some type of divine caster.

Urpriest
2011-08-24, 10:47 AM
Archery is generally not that effective unless you can bring some form of bonus damage to the table, which the Ranger doesn't have out of the box. Luckily there's a straightforward solution: the Swift Hunter feat from Complete Scoundrel lets a multiclass Ranger/Scout increase Skirmish with Ranger levels. A Scout 3 or 4 / Ranger 17 or 16 could then have the Skirmish of a 20th level Scout while still being mostly a Ranger. You'll want some method of getting your attacks while moving, with the feat Greater Manyshot (Expanded Psionics Handbook, but the feat itself is not psionic, it's there as a prerequisite) being the simplest solution, if lower-powered than some other options.

Vladislav
2011-08-24, 10:52 AM
likes the nature fluff, archery, wants a strong animal companion, and to be a skillful sneaky type.

For best animal companion for ranger, be sure to do two things:
- get the Nature Bond feat as soon as you can (probably level 6)
- get into the Beastmaster PrC by level 7 (full BAB and full animal companion progression)

This way, you can get an animal companion that's actually a factor in combat all the way till the highest levels. Meanwhile, you have a full BAB yourself, and get the ranger's archery feats on levels 2 and 6. Hide and Move Silently are always class skills for you, so no problems on the sneaking front as well.

If you can qualify for it, get a level of Wild Plains Outrider PrC - makes your animal companion extra sneaky!

Metahuman1
2011-08-24, 11:14 AM
If the players handbook II is open I'd advise doing the following.

First, make an affiliation of some kind. Make them like, undead hunters as the theme, and give him bonus status as per affiliation rules for having favored enemy: Undead, which fits ranger fluff perfectly anyway. Have it grant a skirmish progression, and several hits of the Turn undead feat as a benefit of membership. Also make it like the swift hunter feat in that when you skirmish something that would normally be immune, it loses that immunity if it's creature type is a favored enemy of yours. Have it grant you a couple of Bonus hits of Favored enemy for the Ranger levels you lose for PRC's to get better Animal companion, and have it grant you Hide in plain sight and Improved evasion if the PRC's would normally cost you those.

Now, at lvl 1, Have him Dip Cloistered Cleric. Have him take Knowledge and Travel Devotion in place of the domains, and find another Devotion feat that's either useful or flavorful, or both. Say your using the concept of the natural order as the thing you get power from so that you can just get the Domains you want.

This character should, it would note, have a high Int, as that will let him have the skills to be stealthy and to take at least five if not six Knowledge skills and max them. The Knowledge skills he wants are Arcana, Religion, The planes, Dungeonering, Local, and Nature.

From here, you have to take Archery Feats and the above advice for having a powerful animal companion, and make sure you've got a means of getting flying, haste, and some degree of shadows for Hide in Plain sight reliably. Also take the improved Skirmish feat for the extra damage.

Enjoy being able to move and full attack from travel devotion, taking lot's of shots with haste, improved Rapid shot, and Greater Many shot (and if you can get it splitting.) + full BAB with extra damage form Skirmish and Knowledge Devotion as well as extra Too hit, and only having Heavy Fortified armor to meaningfully screw you up, while you have the use of Knowledge skills and Stealth skills, and of course a powerful animal companion.

riddles
2011-08-24, 11:17 AM
The wilc cohort feat (available on the web) also gives you an animal companion. Not as good as the druids, but a damn site better than the rangers for the low low cost of 1 feat.

Vladislav
2011-08-24, 11:21 AM
Only problem with Wild Cohort is that it's a move action to control it. No full attacks, no attack-and-move, no Rapid Shot :smallfrown:

It's a good feat for a spellcaster (who stands in one place and casts spells while their Wild Cohort runs around and kills everything that was left standing after the spells), but won't work at all for a fighting class.

ShneekeyTheLost
2011-08-24, 11:31 AM
For an archer/ranger, my suggestion is bog-standard Swift Hunter build. If you are unaware of what I mean, allow me to elucidate.

Scout is a fun little base class. It gets Skirmish damage, not unlike sneak attack, except that it is activated whenever he moves 10' or more.

Ranger... well, you already know what a Ranger is, I'm assuming.

Now add in the feat Swift hunter. It lets Scout and Hunter stack for progression Skirmish damage and Favored Enemies... AND it allows you to apply the precision-based damage to favored enemies which are normally immune to precision-based damage.

So naturally, you pick up favored enemies which are normally immune to precision-based damage. Undead, constructs, plants, oozes, and elementals. Done.

Now, our next trick is getting a full round of attacks off while still activating the skirmish by moving. There's a couple of ways to do this:

1) Greater Manyshot. You get the prerequisites anyways, so it's not too feat-intensive. Lets you get precision-based damage on every arrow from a Manyshot, which normally falls under the volley rules, and precision damage is applied only to the first shot.

2) Travel Devotion. This generally requires a one-level dip in Cloistered Cleric, but that's okay, because you can also pick up Knowledge Devotion at the same time for even more damage output. Basically, you blow a turn attempt (which you have a bunch of, and nothing else to use them on) to move as a swift action. Then you get your full-round attack progression. This is great, because it lets you do things like Rapid Shot, Haste, and other ways to get more shots off in one round, due to being a full attack. However, it does require a dip.

3) Sparring Dummy of the Grandmaster. Lets you take a 10' step instead of a 5'. Normally Monk only, but if your UMD check is high enough, you can use it.

You also get an animal companion from Ranger, since most builds go Scout4/Ranger16, or occasionally Cloistered Cleric1/Scout4/Ranger15. Due to the bonuses you are gaining from Swift Hunter, it is inadvisable to PrC out of Ranger.

gorfnab
2011-08-25, 01:10 AM
Here are two Swift Hunter (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=103.0) builds I've used before

Human Swift Hunter
1. Scout (CAdv) - Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
2. Scout
3. Scout - Alertness (prereq for SoK)
4. Ranger - (Arcane Hunter ACF, CM), B: Track
5. Scout - B: Swift Hunter (CS)
6. Scout - Favored of the Champions (prereq for SoK, BoED)
7. Ranger - B: Rapid Shot
8. Stalker of Kharash (BoED)
9. Stalker of Kharash - Nemesis: Evil (BoED)
10. Ranger - B: Endurance
11. Ranger - (Distracting Attack ACF, PHBII)
12. Ranger - Improved Skirmish (CS)
13. Ranger - B: Manyshot
14. Ranger
15. Ranger - Greater Manyshot (XPH)
16. Ranger - (Spell Reflection ACF, CM)
17. Ranger
18. Ranger - Darkstalker (LoM), B: Improved Precise Shot
19. Ranger
20. Ranger


Human Swift Hunter
1. Scout - Point Blank Shot, Education (PGtF)
2. Scout
3. Scout - Precise Shot
4. Ranger - (Arcane Hunter ACF), B: Track
5. Scout - B: Swift Hunter
6. Scout - Improved Skirmish
7. Ranger - B: Rapid Shot
8. Ranger - B: Endurance
9. Ranger - (Distracting Attack ACF), Knowledge Devotion (CC)
10. Ranger
11. Ranger - B: Manyshot
12. Ranger - Greater Manyshot
13. Ranger
14. Ranger - (Spell Reflection ACF)
15. Ranger - Darkstalker
16. Ranger - B: Improved Precise Shot
17. Ranger
18. Ranger - *Open Feat*
19. Ranger
20. Ranger

*Penetrating Shot, Nemesis: Arcanist, Dead Eye (Drg#304), Deadly Aim (Pathfinder SRD (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/deadly-aim-combat)), or some other appropriate feat. If you're playing in Forgotten Realms take Sword of the Arcane Order at 15th and Darkstalker or Nemesis: Arcanist at 18th.

And here is an archer build with a very strong animal companion.

LG Strongheart (FRCS) Halfling
1. Paladin - Mounted Combat, Track
2. Paladin
3. Paladin - Skill Focus: Handle Animal (prereq for Beast Master)
4. Paladin
5. Paladin
6. Beastmaster (CAdv) - Devoted Tracker (CAdv)
7. Beastmaster
8. Wild Plains Outrider (CAdv)
9. Wild Plains Outrider - Mounted Archery
10. Wild Plains Outrider
11. Halfling Outrider (CW)
12. Halfling Outrider - Natural Bond (CAdv)
13. Halfling Outrider
14. Halfling Outrider
15. Halfling Outrider - Ride By Attack (or some other feat)
16. Halfling Outrider
17. Halfling Outrider
18. Halfling Outrider - Spirited Charge (or some other feat)
19. Halfling Outrider
20. Halfling Outrider

If flaws are available take Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot at 1st level.

Special Mount: 18th level Paladin = Paladin 5 + Wild Plains 3 + Half-Out 10
Animal Companion: 18th level Druid = Beast Master 5 + Natural Bond 3 + Half-Out 10

Another Dragon Mount option can be found on page 136 of the Draconomicon.
You would be able to use it starting at level 11 with this build
(equivalent paladin level 9 for mount abilities).

flabort
2011-08-25, 01:58 PM
You may not expect it, but I recommend dipping Whirling Frenzy Barbarian.
It lets you get off one more attack/round (when raging), and the ability reads almost exactly like Rapid Shot.
It never specifies melee weapons, so you can say "I'm firing off my arrows in a frenzy of spinning and whirling shafts".
Plus you can still take Rapid Shot, or get it from ranger.

I recommend taking this dip, and the cloistered cleric dip for Travel Devotion. I also recommend taking the "Spontaneous Divine" variant on your cleric dip, just because.

Waker
2011-08-27, 09:00 PM
If Dragon is allowed I would suggest the Ranger Knight from #317. Grants a Special Mount, a number of mounted special abilities (penalty reductions on archery, granting AC and skill checks to the mount), Favored enemy progression and a few other little treats.
The ideal would be Ranger 6/Beastmaster 4/Ranger Knight 10. If you could convince the DM to allow Devoted Tracker (CAdv) to work, your mount would be an Animal Companion for a lvl 10 Druid (+6 HD, +6 Nat Armor, +3 Str/Dex, 4 Bonus Tricks, Link, Share Spells, Devotion, Evasion, Multiattack) and a Special Mount for a lvl 15 Paladin (+8 HD, +10 Nat Armor, +4 Str, 9 int, improved evasion, share saving throws, improved speed, command, SR).

flabort
2011-08-27, 09:32 PM
If Dragon is allowed I would suggest the Ranger Knight from #317. Grants a Special Mount, a number of mounted special abilities (penalty reductions on archery, granting AC and skill checks to the mount), Favored enemy progression and a few other little treats.
The ideal would be Ranger 6/Beastmaster 4/Ranger Knight 10. If you could convince the DM to allow Devoted Tracker (CAdv) to work, your mount would be an Animal Companion for a lvl 10 Druid (+6 HD, +6 Nat Armor, +3 Str/Dex, 4 Bonus Tricks, Link, Share Spells, Devotion, Evasion, Multiattack) and a Special Mount for a lvl 15 Paladin (+8 HD, +10 Nat Armor, +4 Str, 9 int, improved evasion, share saving throws, improved speed, command, SR).

It would require a source for Smite Evil (required as a prerequisite), but you could take the feat Devoted Tracker (http://dnd.savannahsoft.eu/feat-607-devoted-tracker.html), from Complete Adventurer, to combine your Animal Companion and Special Mount, so that it gains the benefits of being both.
Depending on the DM, he may not let it work unless the mount is a PALADIN mount, which would suck, but if it works it's an interesting option.

Waker
2011-08-27, 10:06 PM
It would require a source for Smite Evil (required as a prerequisite), but you could take the feat Devoted Tracker (http://dnd.savannahsoft.eu/feat-607-devoted-tracker.html), from Complete Adventurer, to combine your Animal Companion and Special Mount, so that it gains the benefits of being both.
Depending on the DM, he may not let it work unless the mount is a PALADIN mount, which would suck, but if it works it's an interesting option.
Yeah, my lack of sleep is showing. The amended character would be
Paladin 1/Ranger 6/Beastmaster 3/Ranger Lord 10. Everything about the mount/companion I posted before would be the same since the Paladin mount is the same 15-20 and the Animal Companion is 9-10.

molten_dragon
2011-08-28, 07:14 AM
A swift hunter build was going to be my first recommendation as well, but that seems to be well-covered already.

I'm not sure how you feel about homebrew, but if you're okay with it, check out the Hunter class in my sig. It does most of what your buddy is interested in.

flabort
2011-08-28, 12:20 PM
I was just working on a class very much like that. Now I don't have to. I'm getting a fair collection of GitP homebrew classes I like now.

Vizzerdrix
2011-08-28, 12:59 PM
I've seen 3rd party feats that make yer animal not be a waste of space. Tack that onto a swift hunter build with a dip in cleric and Travel Devotion.

MammonAzrael
2011-08-28, 07:35 PM
If your group is open to homebrew, I've made an Archer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183222) PrC that plays well with Core melee.

Sactheminions
2011-08-29, 12:24 AM
Cleric of a nature deity, with appropriate Domains, makes a good archer with a wilderness focus. Elf Domain gives you PBS, which you'll probably eventually need to hit an archery PrC if nothing else. Order of the Bow Initiate is probably more appropriate than Arcane Archer, if only because AA requires you to (A) take an arcane casting class; and (B) Then refuse to advance your spellcasting for ten solid levels.

Aazaroth
2013-08-03, 01:58 AM
hey guys i been out of D&D for a while and am considering returning to 3.5. In my free time i threw together an archery build and want your opinions on it...


Level Class Feats Special

. (If Human) Point Blank Shot
1. Scout 1 Precise Shot [Skirmish +1d6], {Favored Enemy 1}

2. Ranger 1 Track* [Favored Enemy]

3. Ranger 2 Rapid Shot*, Open Feat {Skirmish +1d6/+1 AC}

4. Scout 2 [Battle Fort +1], [uncanny dodge]

5. Scout 3 [Skirmish +1d6/+1 AC, Trackless Step],
. [Fast Movement +10 ft.], {Skirmish
. +2d6/+1 AC}, {Favored Enemy 2}

6. Scout 4 Swift Hunter, Improved Skirmish

7. Ranger 3 Endurance* [Skirmish +2d6/+2 AC]

8. Ranger 4 [1st level spells], [Animal Companion]

9. Scout 5 Open Feat [Skirmish +3d6/+2 AC], [Evasion]

10. Order of the Bow Initiate 1 [Ranged Precision +1d8]

11. Deepwood Sniper 1 [Keen Arrows, range increment bonus +10'/lvl]

12. Order of the Bow Innitiate 2 [i]Open Feat[i] [Close Combat Shot]

13. Deepwood Sniper 2 [concealment reduction 10%, magic weapon, projectile improved critical +1

14. Order of the Bow Innitiate 3 [Ranged Precision +2d8]

15. Deepwood Sniper 3 Open Feat [Safe Poison Use]

16. Order of the Bow Initiate 4 [Greater Weapon Focus*]

17. Deepwood Sniper 4 [Take Aim +2]

18. Order of the Bow Initiate 5 Open Feat [Ranged Precision +3d8]

19. Deepwood Sniper 5 [consistant Aim 1/day]

20. Deepwood Sniper 6 Open Feat [concealment reduction 20%, keen edge]

sleepyphoenixx
2013-08-03, 03:33 AM
If you want a nature themed archer you could also go with a Druid with the Swift Hunter ACF.
Take Zen Archery and a level of Prestige Ranger to get access to ranger spells. Invest in a composite bow with variable strength rating to boost your damage (Bow of the Wintermoon, MIC, 3400gp).

nedz
2013-08-03, 04:26 AM
The standard Swift Hunter builds are Scout 3 / Ranger 17 or Scout 4 / Ranger 16, there's a handbook about them somewhere.

Order of the Bow Initiate is worthless

Scout doesn't give Favoured Enemy, but I suspect that's just a typo.

LordBlades
2013-08-03, 06:22 AM
For a powerful archer fitting the theme you describe I'd recommend an elf cloistered cleric with Zen Archery. You're a good archer, have some divine spells(and proper domain choice like Animal or Plant can give you more nature themed ones), use Wild Cohort feat to get an animal companion and if cross class ranks (cloistered cleric has enough skill points)+various buffs don't cut it for you in the stealth department you can pick a domain that gives you some stealth skills (like Trickery IIRC)

nedz
2013-08-03, 07:31 AM
For a powerful archer fitting the theme you describe I'd recommend an elf cloistered cleric with Zen Archery. You're a good archer, have some divine spells(and proper domain choice like Animal or Plant can give you more nature themed ones), use Wild Cohort feat to get an animal companion and if cross class ranks (cloistered cleric has enough skill points)+various buffs don't cut it for you in the stealth department you can pick a domain that gives you some stealth skills (like Trickery IIRC)

The Elf domain gets you PBS for free.

Knowledge Devotion + Collector of Stories is also a good choice for a small bonus to damage. You can swap your knowledge domain for this IIRC.

Guidance of the Avatar + Divine Inspiration for the skills.

Daftendirekt
2013-08-03, 10:40 AM
I'm going to jump on the Swift Hunter wagon as well. It's versatile, deals respectable damage, and is extremely mobile. Be sure to get Ranged Skirmisher (Dragon mag 346) if possible to double your skirmish range to 60 ft.

Darrin
2013-08-03, 01:45 PM
Only problem with Wild Cohort is that it's a move action to control it. No full attacks, no attack-and-move, no Rapid Shot :smallfrown:


A single level dip into Silverwood Outrider (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031202a) or Silverwood Arcanist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031209a) allows you to direct your Wild Cohort as a free action.

Some additional Swift Hunter builds:

Archery, 10d6 Skirmish
Race: Human, Azurin, Strongheart Halfing, Frostblood Orc/Half-Orc
1) Ranger 1. Feat: Travel Devotion, Bonus: PB Shot, Bonus: Track
2) Ranger 2. Bonus: Rapid Shot
3) Scout 1. Feat: Precise Shot. Skirmish 1d6
4) Scout 2. Skirmish 1d6.
5) Scout 3. Skirmish 1d6AC+1
6) Scout 4. Feat: Swift Hunter. Bonus: Improved Skirmish. Skirmish 2d6AC+1/4d6AC+3.
7) Dragon Devotee 1.
8) Dragon Devotee 2. Skirmish 3d6AC+1/5d6AC+3
9) Dragon Devotee 3. Feat: Manyshot. 1st level Sorcerer casting (get at least 2 divination spells)
10) Dragon Devotee 4. Skirmish 4d6AC+1/6d6AC+3
11) Unseen Seer 1. Skirmish 5d6AC+1/7d6AC+3
12) Unseen Seer 2. Feat: Gr. Manyshot. Advanced Learning: Hunter's Eye
13) Unseen Seer 3.
14) Unseen Seer 4. Skirmish 6d6AC+1/8d6AC+3
15) Highland Stalker 1. Feat: Improved Rapid Shot.
16) Highland Stalker 2. Skirmish 7d6AC+1/9d6AC+3
17) Ranger 3. Bonus: Endurance. Skirmish 7d6AC+2/9d6AC+4
18) Ranger 4. Feat: Travel Devotion (x2)
19) Ranger 5. Skirmish 8d6AC+2/10d6AC+4
20) Spellsword 1.


Crossbow Sniper
Race: Human, Silverbrow Human, Azurin, or Strongheart Halfing
1) Ranger 1. Feat: PB Shot, Bonus: Precise Shot, Bonus: Track
2) Ranger 2. Bonus: Rapid Shot
3) Fighter 1. Feat: Travel Devotion. Bonus: Rapid Reload
4) Fighter 2. Bonus: WF Light Crossbow
5) Scout 1. Skirmish 1d6
6) Scout 2. Feat: Crossbow Sniper.
7) Scout 3. Skirmish 1d6AC+1
8) Scout 4. Bonus: Swift Hunter. Skirmish 2d6AC+1/4d6AC+3.
9) Ranger 3. Feat: Travel Devotion. Bonus: Endurance. Skirmish 2d6AC+2/4d6AC+4
10) Ranger 4.
11) Ranger 5. Skirmish 3d6AC+2/5d6AC+4
12) Ranger 6. Feat: Greater Manyshot. Bonus: Manyshot.
13) Dragon Devotee 1.
14) Dragon Devotee 2. Skirmish 4d6AC+2/6d6AC+4
15) Dragon Devotee 3. Feat: Imp. Rapid Shot. 1st level Sorcerer casting (get at least 2 divination spells)
16) Dragon Devotee 4. Skirmish 5d6AC+2/7d6AC+4
17) Unseen Seer 1. Skirmish 6d6AC+2/7d6AC+4
18) Unseen Seer 2. Feat: Travel Devotion. Advanced Learning: Hunter's Eye
19) Unseen Seer 3.
20) Unseen Seer 4. Skirmish 7d6AC+2/9d6AC+4


Full BAB Archery:
Race: Human, Azurin, Strongheart Halfing, Frostblood Orc/Half-Orc
1) Ranger 1. Feat: Travel devotion, Bonus: PB Shot, Bonus: Track
2) Ranger 2. Bonus: Rapid Shot
3) Ranger 3. Feat: Precise Shot. Bonus: Endurance
4) Ranger 4.
5) Simple Fighter. Sneak Attack 1d6
6) H.Stalker 1. Feat: Imp. Rapid Shot
7) H.Stalker 2. Skirmish 1d6
8) H.Stalker 3.
9) H.Stalker 4. Feat: Swift Hunter. Skirmish 2d6AC+2.
10) Ranger 5. Skirmish 3d6AC+2.
11) Ranger 6. Bonus: Manyshot
12) Ranger 7. Feat: Greater Manyshot. Skirmish 3d6AC+3.
13) H.Stalker 5.
14) H.Stalker 6. Skirmish 4d6AC+3
15) Ranger 8. Feat: Imp. Skirmish. Skirmish 4d6AC+3/6d6AC+5
16) Ranger 9. Skirmish 5d6AC+3/7d6AC+5
17) Ranger 10.
18) Ranger 11. Feat: Travel Devotion, Bonus: Imp. Precise Shot. Skirmish 5d6AC+4/7d6AC+6
19) Ranger 12.
20) Ranger 13. Skirmish 6d6AC+4/8d6AC+6

ShneekeyTheLost
2013-08-03, 06:39 PM
Post #17: 08-29-2011
Post# 18: Today

Two year thread necro? That might not quite be a record, but it's certainly close!

nedz
2013-08-03, 07:51 PM
Post #17: 08-29-2011
Post# 18: Today

Two year thread necro? That might not quite be a record, but it's certainly close!

Hmm, missed that but I did catch a 3 year, 2 time necro earlier today. It must be the season for them.

Intermelo
2013-08-05, 11:11 AM
Hello! I'm brand spanking new to this site and D&D. Found it while trying to research good feats and cross classes for my ranger.


First, like I said, I have not been playing D&D for very long, so if you don't mind, break it down when you explain it.


I'm a human ranger, level 7.

Feats I currently have:
Point blank shot, far shot, precise shot, many shot, endurance, and iron will.

I don't know if skills are relevant, but some worth noting:

Hide-10
Knowledge (nature)- 11
Knowledge (geography)- 4
Move Silently- 11
Search- 10
Spot- 7
Survival- 11

My weapon of choice is a masterwork composite long bow +2.


1. I know that I want to do the prestige class Horizon Walker. Just discovered cross-classing and that it was even an option, and my DM has okay'd it, once I achieve the pre-reqs.

2. What other options do I have to cross-class with that would, ideally, boost my archers precision because the dice hate me? lol My shots tend to miss.

3. On the other side, I wouldn't mind cross-classes that would boost the power of my bow.

4. What is 'BAB'? I see it all the time lol


Thanks in advance!

nedz
2013-08-05, 12:41 PM
This is a very old thread which is liable to be locked any time soon. The best thing to do is start a new thread.

Oh and BAB is Base Attack Bonus, for a 7th level Ranger it is 7.