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View Full Version : Vote Up A Paladin Fix! Round 2 (Over, please read last post)



Ziegander
2011-08-27, 12:47 AM
Vote Up A Paladin Fix

http://www.evansknightsfootball.com/images/KnightsLogo1.jpg

In the previous round (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11621804) we voted up the top four central aspects of the Paladin fix we're working on.

1. Protector
2. Physical
3. Agent of Good/Healer/Smite
4. Commander

In this round I will use the above four aspects to deliver four different written descriptions of the potential class, in essence voters will be deciding which flavor concept they want me to then use to write the actual class mechanics.

I ask voters to please vote for only a SINGLE concept in this round. And, so, without further ado, here we are:



(Last Tally: 8/30/11)

1. The Lionheart
(9 votes)

The Paladin is a powerful knight-errant, well-versed in the highest orders of combat. Girded in his thick armor and armed with his heavy weapons, the Paladin is a fearsome foe to face on the battlefield. His passion to do good aims his terrible strength and prowess toward the defense of his allies and woe be to the enemy that attempts to keep him from the side of those he loves. The raw power he commands can level the sturdiest of obstructions and crush the staunchest dragon scales. His is the strength of arms but also the strength of heart, and while he may be a horror to his adversaries, to his friends he provides brotherhood, comfort, and solidarity. He is like a fire, that burns and destroys evil-doers, but calms and vitalizes his friends.


OR

2. The Kingmaker
(1 vote)

The Paladin is a cosmopolitan of field and society who has chosen to dedicate his multifaceted ability to improving the world unto the lasting good of all intelligent life. He is the product of a thriving social environment allowing him to specialize in martial arts while still allowing him to become competent in an assortment of skill sets from beyond the battlefield. On the battlefield, he takes great care of his allies, watching over them like an eagle. He treats their wounds with tact and acumen and he freely shares his well-read tactical insight. With dignity and conventional wisdom the Paladin navigates social intrigue as well as he navigates the battlefield. When he cannot protect others or physically depose those that do evil, he works behind the scenes to set up good men to lead or to arrange the downfall of the forces of darkness.


OR

3. The Knight-Warden
(7 votes)

The Paladin is first and foremost the defender of all good men. All friends within the reach of his arm are to be sheltered from darkness and devilry. To this aim he becomes a powerful defensive combatant, learned in the ways of war to best protect his allies when the chips are thrown down. From this foundation a Paladin may take one of three different paths, dedicating himself either to purest righteousness to live up to the good men he protects, to healing arts to ensure that his charges can continue to receive the benefit of his defensive prowess, or to mastering an aggressive martial offense so that he can unleash upon unwary foes when his allies aren't in immediate danger. Regardless of secondary dedication, all Paladins find it helpful to provide guidance to those they protect to foster a cooperative effort on the battlefield.


OR

4. The Gray-Guard
(11 votes)

The Paladin is a man whose devotion is given to two sides of the same coin: defend the righteous/destroy the wicked. By whatever means necessary, the Paladin will ensure that the innocent are protected and that foul deeds do not go unpunished. His skill set is well-suited to those aims and he is possessed of the moral flexibility to ensure that a crisis of faith never stops him from getting the job done. A masterful combatant, the Paladin is also a skilled tracker and a scholar of ancient arts - some white, some black. Combining martial training with naturalistic skills and alchemical knowledge, the Paladin can offer medicine to friends and punish foes with dark rituals. He is whatever Good needs him to be, sometimes a shining knight, but also sometimes far more dirty.


~~~~~

There are your four choices in this round. I also challenge any voter that does not particularly like any of the four options presented above to NOT VOTE and instead speak up. Tell what you don't like, or point out things you do like, but what makes the options ultimately unsatisfactory. The point behind all of this, after all, is to try and come up with a Paladin fix that the community wants, not one that I want.

REMEMBER vote only for a single concept this round. There will won't be weighing of votes, so each vote is worth just a single point. I will be keeping this round open until at least September 3rd, but I will perhaps leave it open a bit longer.

Happy voting!!

eftexar
2011-08-27, 01:03 AM
I vote for the gray gaurd, because I hate it when a paladin can't do his job, because his oath gets in the way.

I would however like to suggest an idea for the build: why not allow two paths for players, one for the 'knight in shining armor' and one for the knight who must do evil to defeat a greater evil? Each with their own benefits, but revolving around the same system (whatever that may be).

Domriso
2011-08-27, 02:01 AM
My vote is for the Grey-Guard. I like the dichotomy aspect, and it just seems like a lot of fun.

Lappy9000
2011-08-27, 03:20 AM
I vote for the Lionheart.

togapika
2011-08-27, 03:27 AM
Lionheart is my vote

Togath
2011-08-27, 05:07 AM
I'm voting for Lionheart

nonsi
2011-08-27, 07:01 AM
Definitely gray gaurd - you can't do your job properly when you tie your own hands.

Moose Man
2011-08-27, 09:44 AM
Gray Guard.

Ziegander
2011-08-27, 03:19 PM
I vote for the gray gaurd, because I hate it when a paladin can't do his job, because his oath gets in the way.

Indeed, although, of importance to note is that none of the concepts necessarily require any sort of code of conduct. Of course, while each of the concepts is concerned with Good, the Gray-Guard is the least concerned with doing good deeds personally. The Kingmaker's focus also lies beyond personally doing good; rather he prefers acting to create an overall sense of good (however that may be accomplished).


I would however like to suggest an idea for the build: why not allow two paths for players, one for the 'knight in shining armor' and one for the knight who must do evil to defeat a greater evil? Each with their own benefits, but revolving around the same system (whatever that may be).

This is a good thing for me to keep in mind for the next round which will entail voting up mechanical and "systems" ideas for the class.

Tanuki Tales
2011-08-27, 03:22 PM
Chalk up another vote for Lionheart.

BlackestOfMages
2011-08-27, 03:23 PM
I vote 'Grey-Guard', for the reason mentioned above. also, he can attack someone who turns around without falling...

Jade Dragon
2011-08-27, 03:29 PM
Lionheart! :smallcool:

YouLostMe
2011-08-27, 03:34 PM
I vote Grey Warden Guard.

Bovine Colonel
2011-08-27, 03:40 PM
Count in another vote for Lionheart.

TravelLog
2011-08-27, 03:46 PM
Grey Guard

Howler Dagger
2011-08-27, 04:55 PM
Lionheart.

Ziegander
2011-08-28, 12:28 AM
At the end of day 1 we have a dead heat between the Lionheart and the Gray-Guard, both with 7 votes each!

Keep the votes coming in!

Ajadea
2011-08-28, 12:32 AM
Personally, I prefer the Knight-Warden.

pyrefiend
2011-08-28, 12:36 AM
I'll throw my vote in for kingmaker, though it doesn't seem like there's much hope...

Ziegander
2011-08-28, 01:13 AM
I'll throw my vote in for kingmaker, though it doesn't seem like there's much hope...

Oh there's always hope, my friend. I'm glad to see some fresh votes this morning! I was beginning to think this round was all about the Lionheart and the Gray-Guard!

blackspeeker
2011-08-28, 02:06 AM
I second knight warden

Glimbur
2011-08-28, 04:53 PM
Knight Warden!

Ziegander
2011-08-29, 05:43 AM
Well, things are starting to slow down here, but at the end of Day 2, we got 3 votes in for Knight-Warden and 1 vote for the Kingmaker! Lionheart and Gray-Guard are still locked in a tie at 7 votes each.

Thanks again to everyone who has already voted and I really hope we get some more votes in today! It doesn't matter if you missed the first round, come get your vote on!!

Eledragon
2011-08-29, 08:49 AM
I'll say gray-guard.

Firechanter
2011-08-29, 09:40 AM
And I chip in for Lionheart

Daverin
2011-08-29, 10:15 AM
The Knight-Warden, all the way! :smallbiggrin:

Bovine Colonel
2011-08-29, 11:11 AM
Could we combine the Lionheart and Grey Guard concepts?

Haarkla
2011-08-29, 06:26 PM
Knight-Warden

That is to me the essence of what the Paladin is all about.

Togath
2011-08-29, 09:49 PM
Could we combine the Lionheart and Grey Guard concepts?

Lionheart and Greyguard are pretty much opposites, greyguard is Neutral evil or chaotic neutral, while lionheart is chaotic good or neutral good., At least from my understanding of the descriptions.

Jade Dragon
2011-08-29, 10:00 PM
Lionheart and Greyguard are pretty much opposites, greyguard is Neutral evil or chaotic neutral, while lionheart is chaotic good or neutral good., At least from my understanding of the descriptions.

Gray-guard isn't evil. Keep in mind these concepts are all supposed to be lawful good (or at least good), the lionheart's just spirited and the gray-guard is willing to do things other paladins aren't (killing a helpless enemy is probably one of them, poison use is another, torturing is a maybe, any of this done to a non-evil person is most likely a no).

Togath
2011-08-29, 10:13 PM
Ah, hadn't noticed the "poison use" & "ok to kill helpless demon" parts, had thought lionheart had them as well.
Also hadn't relised the outcome was going to be good aligned regardless of theme, with that in mind, grey guard doesn't seem as strange anymore.

A Weeping Angel
2011-08-29, 10:20 PM
Lionheart is my choice.

SamBurke
2011-08-29, 10:33 PM
Knight-Warden: a Paladin as a protector? Underused angle, but definitely veeeeeery fluffy, and one I like. Plus, the obvious multi-paths is good. I like those.

Alrox
2011-08-30, 11:43 PM
Grey Guard. This sounds way too interesting to pass up.

Mythestopheles
2011-08-31, 12:12 AM
Grey Guard: I always liked the idea of a paladin who holds himself to higher purpose, as opposed to a strict, and sometimes counterproductive set of morals.

Togath
2011-08-31, 12:50 AM
Due note that (at least as far as I can tell) none of the archetype here have codes of conduct(other than "don't massacre allied innocents, and always work to help your allies, unless they're doing an outright evil act[murdering the friendly baker, molesting the bar wench et cetera]")

So if your voting greyguard to get a no code of conduct paladin you don't need to(I think), if your voting because you like the other parts of it(some of which are fairly interesting) then keep on voting for it, I'm fine for just about any of the four, their all pretty good for a paladin.

Ziegander
2011-08-31, 01:21 AM
Votes tallied.

B!shop
2011-08-31, 04:36 AM
My vote is for the Grey Guard.

nonsi
2011-08-31, 07:12 AM
Votes tallied.

And the winner is... ?

Violet Octopus
2011-08-31, 07:19 AM
I vote for Knight Warden

Ziegander
2011-08-31, 10:03 AM
And the winner is... ?

Votes tallied up to the time I posted. The round's not over.

Ziegander
2011-09-01, 09:27 AM
Another slow day, but at the end of day 5 we have Grey Guard in the lead. Of course, Lionheart isn't far behind and Knight-Warden is starting to pick up steam, but the contest is almost over. Get those votes in!

Ziegander
2011-09-02, 07:12 PM
I'm closing the round early in a few hours, so if anyone has any last minutes votes they need to get out of their systems, get them in!

Ziegander
2011-09-03, 09:02 AM
Okay, I officially announce the end of this round, naming the Gray Guard the winner. In the next round we will vote up potential mechanics and possibly class features.

There are a couple ways we can proceed. I can have you vote up potential mechanics with voting options like, "Maneuvers & Stances, Talent Trees, Favored Enemy, Sneak Attack, etc..." and have each voter choose a few of them. OR I can design let's say four different versions of the first 1~3 levels of the class and voters would vote on their favorite(s).

Which option do you prefer?

Howler Dagger
2011-09-03, 09:48 AM
i would prefer the first option.

SamBurke
2011-09-03, 11:03 AM
First sounds reasonable.

TravelLog
2011-09-03, 02:07 PM
Option one sounds good.

togapika
2011-09-03, 02:49 PM
Option 2 is my vote

YouLostMe
2011-09-03, 03:39 PM
I prefer option 2, simply because if the class that I want to see isn't voted for, I can take the sample and build on it later.

But that's my greed talking--you should do whatever is easier.

Ziegander
2011-09-03, 04:11 PM
Well, also as far as option 2 is concerned, I'd offer the first three levels at first, then the next round would be the next three levels, and so on and so on, etc, etc.

Bovine Colonel
2011-09-05, 06:54 PM
I'd like to see if we can't do both. For example, establish the primary class features that'll be present, and then do the level by level for the secondary/minor/unique features.

Ziegander
2011-09-05, 07:27 PM
I'd like to see if we can't do both. For example, establish the primary class features that'll be present, and then do the level by level for the secondary/minor/unique features.

Seems like it would probably be a good idea.

A Weeping Angel
2011-09-06, 04:13 PM
I'd like to see if we can't do both. For example, establish the primary class features that'll be present, and then do the level by level for the secondary/minor/unique features.

Seconded. This sounds good.

Hadrian_Emrys
2011-09-06, 05:00 PM
http://thenoisingmachine.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/139-1.jpg
"I am the Gray Guard." "I am the Gray Guard."

Ziegander
2011-09-06, 06:06 PM
"I am the Gray Guard." "I am the Gray Guard."

Interestingly, Batman is exactly who I had in mind when I wrote the Gray-Guard blurb. :smallsmile:

Oh, and also, I'm currently working on the Round 3 thread, so expect it forthcoming asap.

Jade Dragon
2011-09-06, 06:38 PM
I think Thor is the lionheart (actual Thor, not Marvel Thor).