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Welknair
2011-09-01, 03:37 PM
That's right. It's here.


Blood King

http://th05.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/f/2010/012/4/2/Demonic_Warrior_by_JayAxer.jpg

"I have the blood of angels, demons, dragons and beings far worse coursing through my body and giving me their power. And you think to challenge me?"

-Aradin, Blood King

Some individuals have supernatural blood coursing through their veins. Some have more than one such line, known as mudbloods. And then there are those who are descended from mudbloods. The lines blurred and faded. Often to the point where they no longer even manifest themselves. That is until such an individual goes down the path of the Blood King, slowly awakening their ancestry and growing in power. Blood Kings walk a lonely road with many branches. For how does one set about awakening the multitudes of lineages present in oneself? The Blood King masters the ways of the blood, shaping it to their will. The ability to control which of their lines manifest, when and how much is foremost among their capabilities.

Adventures: Blood Kings quest to learn about themselves and the world in which they live. Perhaps by traveling the world, they can find a more innate understanding of the beings which resulted in their creation. Blood Kings often try to find purpose in their lives, whether that be in the defense of the innocent, or in the dominion of armies.

Characteristics: Blood Kings gain access to many Bloodlines (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11487854#post11487854) over the course of their career and have the ability to change how manifested each is. Due to the large variation in Bloodlines, this means that Blood Kings are very diverse and versatile characters. However, they are still less powerful than an individual that chose a single road.

Alignment: Blood Kings are as variable as their patrons. They range from the True Neutral wandering ranger, trying to find his way in the world, to the Lawful Evil tyrant seeking to conquer all and proclaiming his superiority in blood, to the Chaotic Good do-gooder trying to redeem his demonic ancestors. Blood Kings can be of any alignment and do not have a lean in any direction.

Religion: Blood Kings tend to place little value in divinity, choosing instead to turn inward for aid. For with the blood of a hundred entities, who needs gods and their fickle ways? Planar Tied are the only Blood Kings that commonly prescribe to the dictates of an Outsider.

Background: Blood Kings usually come from lines of heroes, each possessing unique capabilities due to their supernatural parentage. It is equally common for Blood Kings to be the children of the greatest heroes ever known, as it is for them to be the children of humble peasants with family trees containing dragons and angels and heroes, but so far back that no one remembers. Blood Kings can manifest equally well in either environment. If the blood is there, there is the chance that it will call. And the King may choose to answer, going on a journey of self-exploration to fully realizes their powers.

Races: Any common race may yield a Blood King, but Humans are the most common due to their habit of breeding with beings that are not Human. Blooded (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11654033&postcount=53), with their diverse parentages, often choose to become Blood Kings.

Other Classes: Blood Kings get along alright with most classes. They find individuals who have powers similar to those granted by their Bloodlines fascinating. Blood Kings often make fast friends with Factotums as they share the ability to adapt for any obstacle. Blood Kings respect spellcasters, knowing that though they themselves may be able to conjure a few things, they will never reach the power attained by these individuals. Mundane characters are of little interest to Blood Kings. Who just uses a sword these days?

Role: Blood Kings fill the Jack of All Trades role. At later levels, Blood Kings have access to numerous sets of abilities. They need only know what to choose. Blood Kings also vary in their selection of Bloodlines. Those that choose many similar lines have a more concrete sense of their role and are more capable in it, but have less versatility. Those that choose a wider array have more versatility, but less power. Based on their choices, Blood Kings can fill roles ranging from healer to tank to spellcaster to support.

GAME RULE INFORMATION:
Abilities: Constitution is most important to the Blood King as it increases the number of Blood Points they have to use as well as the number of points that may be shifted with a single use of Shift Line. Charisma is also important as many bloodlines have abilities keyed off of it. Dexterity is as useful as ever, helping the Blood King avoid getting hit.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Dice: d8.
Starting Age: As Sorcerer.
Starting Gold: As Rogue.

Class Skills: All skills which the Morphic Bloodlines they have access to give bonuses to plus Concentrate, Craft, Knowledge, Profession, Speak Language and Use Magic Device.
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4+Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4+Int modifier

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|Bloodlines|BP

1st|
+0|
+2|
+0|
+2|Morphic Bloodlines, Blood Gift, Blood Mastery - Sense|2|2

2nd|
+1|
+3|
+0|
+3|Shift Line 1/day - Full Round|3|4

3rd|
+2|
+3|
+1|
+3|Blooded Synergy +1|3|6

4th|
+3|
+4|
+1|
+4|Shift Line 2/day|4|9

5th|
+3|
+4|
+1|
+4|Blood Mastery - Attune|4|12

6th|
+4|
+5|
+2|
+5|Shift Line 3/day|5|15

7th|
+5|
+5|
+2|
+5|Know Thy Blood|5|19

8th|
+6/+1|
+6|
+2|
+6|Shift Line 4/day - Standard|6|23

9th|
+6/+1|
+6|
+3|
+6|Blood Mastery - Greater Sense|6|27

10th|
+7/+2|
+7|
+3|
+7|Shift Line 5/day|7|32

11th|
+8/+3|
+7|
+3|
+7|Blooded Synergy +2|7|37

12th|
+9/+4|
+8|
+4|
+8|Shift Line 6/day|8|42

13th|
+9/+4|
+8|
+4|
+8|Blood Mastery - Awaken|8|48

14th|
+10/+5|
+9|
+4|
+9|Shift Line 7/day - Move|9|56

15th|
+11/+6/+1|
+9|
+5|
+9|Greater Affinity|9|62

16th|
+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+5|
+10|Shift Line 8/day|10|69

17th|
+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+5|
+10|Blood Mastery - Weakness in the Blood|10|76

18th|
+13/+8/+3|
+11|
+6|
+11|Shift Line 9/day|11|83

19th|
+14/+9/+4|
+11|
+6|
+11|Blooded Synergy +3|11|91

20th|
+15/+10/+5|
+12|
+6|
+12|Shift Line 10/day - Free, Sovereign of Blood|12|99[/table]

Class Features:
All the following are Class Features for the Blood King.

Armor and Weapon Proficiencies: Blood Kings are proficient in the use of all simple and martial weapons, as well as the use of light and medium armor and all shields except Tower Shields.

Morphic Bloodlines (Su): The defining feature of the Blood King is their Morphic Bloodlines. At level one they choose two bloodlines to gain as Morphic Bloodlines. At second, fourth and every two thereafter they gain access to another Bloodline, up to a max of twelve bloodlines at level twenty. A bloodline may be chosen more than once as long as they have different Lineages. Each morning after eight hours of rest, the Blood King may spend an hour allocating their Bloodline Points (BP=Blood Pressure?) among their various Morphic Bloodlines. They have a number to spend as indicated by the above table plus an additional amount equal to Con Mod X Blood King level X 1/8 and are treated as a character with a Major Bloodline of that kind and a level equal to the number of points allocated into that bloodline. A Blood King may never allocate more points into a Bloodline than they have levels in this class and Ability bonuses to Con from Morphic Bloodlines do not grant Bloodline Points. So for example, a fifth level Blood King with a Red Dragon Descendant Morphic Bloodline could could choose to spend between zero and five of his Bloodline Points in it. If he were to allocate three, he'd gain a +2 bonus to bluff, Keen Senses, and a +1 to strength. If he were to have allocated four, he would have gotten a Breath Weapon and would be treated as a fourth level character with a Major Bloodline for purposes of damage and DCs. As mentioned, each morning the Blood King may reallocate his Bloodline Points. Any ability score bonuses gotten are only temporary, and as such don't do things like count towards skill points obtained at new levels. Mudblood is not a valid Morphic Bloodline choice. Any decisions that must be made for a bloodline cannot be changed once made - this includes Lineage, maneuvers chosen and the like. At 4th, 8th and every four levels thereafter, the Blood King may replace when of their existing Morphic Bloodlines with another, or choose to change decisions made about a current Morphic Bloodline.

Blood Gift: The Blood King's search for enlightenment and true knowledge of their diverse heritage has lead to the realization of several talents that they would not have otherwise come across. Dependent upon which Morphic Bloodlines the Blood King puts points in, they gain different scaling class features. It is worth noting that the Blood King does not normally gain the Gifts of Attuned bloodlines.


Dragon Descendant - Dragon Scales (Ex): The Blood King gains a bonus to Natural Armor equal to 1/4 the points they have allocated to Dragon Descendant, rounded up.

Noble-Blood - Order (Su): As a Standard Action the King may issue an Order to any humanoid within 30ft. The target must succeed on a DC 10+1/2 Points in Noble Blood+Cha Will Save or have to obey a single (No "And"s in the Order) non-self destructive order for up to one minute. The target gains a bonus on the save ranging from +1 to +15, depending on how much the act is against their nature or would negatively impact their life. For example, a shopkeeper would likely get a +1 or +2 on a save against being Ordered to give away one of his small trinkets, whereas he'd get a +5 against giving away one of his more valuable items, or a +10 or more against giving away his entire shop. Something akin to killing your son would warrant a +15. If the King or any of their allies assaults the Ordered individual, the Order immediately ends. If the target is Hostile when the Order is given, the action cannot be longer than a single full-round action. Orders themselves may not be terribly complicated. "Drop your weapon" is acceptable, as is "Flee", but "Run down the eastern corridor 30ft" is not. This ability is usable a number of times per day equal to 1/4 the points the King has allocated to Noble-Blood, rounded up. This is a language-dependent effect. After the Order ends, the target is aware that you somehow caused them to take the action. This means that if you Order a shopkeeper to hand you an item, he'll likely still accuse you of stealing.

Bladechild - Blade Boon (Ex): The King gains a bonus on all attack rolls made with Bladechild Discipline Weapons equal to 1/4 the number of points they have allocated in Bladechild, rounded up.

Hero-Born - Heroic Endurance (Ex): Once every 1d6 rounds the King may add an amount to any one saving throw they make equal to 1/4 the points they have allocated to Hero-Born, rounded up.

Titankith - Titan's Resilience (Ex): Once every 1d10 minutes, the King may use Titan's Resilience as a Swift Action to grant themselves an amount of Temporary HP equal to the number of points they have allocated to Titankith. These points last 1 minute per point in Titankith or until lost. Do keep in mind that Temporary HP does not stack, it overlaps.

Glamerkin - Wool Over the Eyes (Su): Once every 1d6 rounds as a Standard Action provoking Attacks of Opportunity, the King may force a target within 25ft+5ft/2 Points to make a Will Save at DC 10+1/2 Points in Glamerkin+Cha or be Blinded for a number of rounds equal to 1/4 the number of points the King has allocated to Glamerkin, rounded up. If they fail the save and are Blinded, they are immune to Wool Over the Eyes for the next 1d10 minutes.

Half-Blood - Smite Heathen (Su): A number of times per day equal to 1/4 the number of points the King has allocated to Half-Blood, rounded up, the Blood King may Smite a target who's alignment differs from the King's Patron by two steps. This allows the King to add their Charisma modifier to the attack roll and the number of points in Half-Blood to the damage if the attack hits.

Celestial Tied - Channel Heritage (Su): As a standard action that does not provoke Attacks of Opportunity, the Blood King may channel either Positive or Negative energy (Depending on Lineage) through a touch, for a total number of points per day up to 4x the number of points allocated into Celestial Tied. If this would cause harm to a creature (Negative on living creatures, Positive on Undead), the target is allowed a Will Save at DC 10+1/2 points in Celestial Tied+Cha to halve the damage and the King must make a successful Melee Touch Attack. They need not use all these points at once, instead opting to spread them out over the course of the day.

Magyk-Touched - Magyk Lash (Su): As a Standard Action provoking Attacks of Opportunity, the King may choose to Lash a target within 25ft+5ft/2 Points in Magyk-Touched, dealing an amount of Force damage equal to the number of points they have allocated to Magyk-Touched as a Ranged Touch Attack. They may use this ability as many times as they want per day.

Elemental Sibling - Energy Corona (Su): As a standard action provoking Attacks of Opportunity, the King may wreath themselves in a corona of energy. For a number of rounds equal to 1/2 the number of points allocated in Elemental Sibling rounded up, any creature grappling or melee-attacking the King takes one d6 of appropriately-typed damage for every four points allocated in Elemental Sibling, rounded up.

Akodrin - Strength of the Realms (Su): The Blood King gains an amount of Damage Reduction/- equal to 1/4 the number of points they have in Akodrin, rounded up.

Quisling - Maleficence (Su): As a Standard action the King may force a target within 30ft to make a Fortitude Save at DC 10+1/2 Points in Quisling+Cha or have one ability score of the King's choice reduced by an amount equal to 1/4 the points the King has in Quisling rounded up for a number of minutes equal to the number of points in Quisling. This ability functions every 1d6 rounds and does not provoke an Attack of Opportunity.

Kitten-Friend - Don't Kick the Cat (Su): This ability functions as the Cleric spell Sanctuary. The Save is Cha- based, the CL is equal to the number of points allocated in Kitten-Friend and it's range is Personal. This ability cannot be used if it ended within the past three rounds. Aside from this qualifier, DKtC is usable at will.

Emergent Atrocity - Enhanced Regeneration (Su): As a Free Action the King may activate Enhanced Regeneration for a total number of rounds per day equal to the number of points in Emergent Atrocity. While Enhanced Regeneration is active, the King benefits from an amount of Fast Healing equal to 1/4 the number of points in Emergent Atrocity, rounded up. Enhanced Regeneration may be activated even when the King is unconscious, may be deactivated as a Free Action and the rounds of activation need not be continuous.

Remnant - Project Shred (Su): As a Standard Action the Blood King may force a target within 30ft to make a Will Save at DC 10+1/2 Points in Remnant+Cha to avoid being possessed by the Shred for a number of rounds equal to 1/4 the number of points in Remnant rounded up. This ability is usable every 1d10 minutes. Converse with Shred is highly useful in conjunction with this Gift, as the King still has absolutely no control over the Shred's actions.

Tinkerer - Dismantling Touch (Su): The Blood King may make a Dismantling Touch against an inanimate object or a construct as a standard action. If the King succeeds on a Melee Touch Attack, the object or construct takes an amount of damage equal to twice the number of points in Tinkerer. Magic Items and Constructs may make a Fortitude Save at DC 10+1/2 Points in Tinkerer+Int for half damage. This ability overcomes hardness and damage reduction and may be used once every 1d6 rounds.

Shadow-Wrought - Call of Shadows (Su): As a Full-Round Action that provokes Attacks of Opportunity, the King may call forth shadows is a radius around themselves. Light level drops one level (From Bright to Shadowy, Shadowy to Dark, or Dark to Magically Dark) in a radius of 10ft per point in Shadow-Wrought around the King, two levels in a radius of 5ft per point in Shadow-Wrought past the fifth, and three levels in a radius of 5ft per two points in Shadow-Wrought past the tenth. The King and any designated individuals treat the light level in the affected area as if the amount the level had been dropped was one less (They'd treat Bright to Shadowy as if still Shadowy, but they wouldn't treat Magically Dark to Magically Dark as Dark). This ability is treated as a [Darkness] spell of a level equal to 1/4 the number of points in Blood King, rounded up, for the purposes of dispelling or being dispelled by [Light] effects. The King may choose to treat himself as having a lower number of points in Shadow-Wrought for the purpose of determining radius and may change this decision as a Move Action while Call of Shadows is active. The King may deactivate Call of Shadows as a Free action and it may be active a total number of minutes per day equal to 1/2 the number of points in Shadow-Wrought. If dispelled or deactivated before a given minutes is up, round the time spent up to the nearest minute.

Name Given - Protection of the Word (Su): The Blood King gains a Deflection bonus to AC equal to 1/5 the number of points in Name Given, rounded up.

Chosen of the Far Realms - Eldritch Whispers (Su): As a Standard Action that provokes Attacks of Opportunity the King may force one or more targets within 30ft to make a Will Save at DC 10+1/2 Points in Chosen of the Far Realms+Cha or be stunned for a round. The DC is decreased by one for each target beyond the first. This ability may be used a number of times per day equal to the number of points in Chosen of the Far Realms, though these uses may instead be used to negate the penalty for targeting multiple creatures on a 1-for-1 basis (Spend two uses to affect two without penalty, spending three when targeting five would only decrease the DC by 1).

Inherent - Business to Do (Su): A number of times per day equal to 1/4 the number of points in Inherent, the King may add an amount to any one skill check or saving throw to overcome an obstacle preventing them from overcoming a task related to the King's chain (Such as a Jump check to vault over the street below to reach the last Christmas tree). Said amount is equal to 1/2 the number of Points in Inherent. The King may instead apply this as a bonus to an attack roll under the same circumstances (Slaying the Grinch) where the bonus is 1/4 the number of points in Inherent.

Blood Chameleon - Chamelic Gift (Su): When the Blood King uses either Morphic Touch or Attune to put points into a bloodline they don't possess, they gain access to that Bloodline's Gift as if they did have it as a Morphic Bloodline. Under normal circumstances Chamelic and Attuned Bloodlines do not yield access to their Gifts. This benefit only extends up to the number of points currently in Blood Chameleon - If you Attune five points into Dragon Descendant but only have four allocated into Blood Chameleon, you are treated as a fourth-level major Dragon Descendant for the purposes of Dragon Scales.


Blood Mastery - Sense (Ex): The Blood King knows when there is magical blood about. By studying an individual or creature as a full-round action they immediately know whether or not they would be capable of yielding a child possessing a bloodline, if they are linked to a bloodline, or if they themselves have a bloodline. They do not know the strength or type of bloodline, though they may infer. If the target is disguising themselves, the Blood King must make a successful Spot check to see through the disguise before using this ability.

Shift Line (Su): The ability to change bloodline strengths on the fly is very important. What if a problem presents itself that you did not foresee? Unlike those poor Wizards, Blood Kings have the ability to make adjustments during the course of the day. A number of times per day, as indicated in the table, the Blood King may shift a number of their Bloodline Points up to their one half their Constitution Modifier rounded down or 1, whichever is larger, from one of their Morphic Bloodlines to another, as long as this does not boost it past their Blood King level. The action it takes to use this ability varies, depending on the Blood King's level, as indicated in the table. They gain abilities and bonuses as normal for being a character of that level with a Major Bloodline of that type. If using a bloodline with a point-based system, such as the Akodrin or Half-Blood, you gain the difference between the amount of points they'd have at the previous level and the new level, but do not recover spent points. If they lower their level in a point-based bloodline, they lose a number of points as would be appropriate for such a level drop. So for example, if a Blood King dropped is level in Half-Blood from 6 to 5, he'd lose 4 DP. If he had not spent any, this would drop him to his new max, 2. Shift Line may only be used once per round. Ability bonuses to Con from Morphic Bloodlines do not count towards the number points shifted by Shift Line. Shifting provokes Attacks of Opportunity and requires concentration as if it were a spell of a level equal to half the points that will be in the target Morphic Bloodline, rounded down. This does mean that the King may Shift Defensively to avoid AoOs.

Blooded Synergy (Ex): Blood feeds upon blood. When the Blood King's ancestries work together, they accomplish greater feats. If the Blood King is currently benefiting from two or more skill bonuses to the same skill from their Morphic Bloodlines, they gain an additional bonus to that skill as indicated for each bloodline past the first that gives a bonus to that skill. So if a third level Blood King had two active bloodlines that gave bonuses to Diplomacy, they'd get a total bonus of +5. If the Blood King was benefiting from three bonuses to Diplomacy, they'd instead get +8. The extra amount given increases to +2 at 11th level and +3 at 19th.

Blood Mastery - Attune (Su): The Blood King can draw power from the supernatural blood of others. By touching an individual possessing, linked to, or capable of yielding a child with a bloodline, they may use their daily uses of Shift Line to allocate points into the bloodline that is possessed, linked to, or would be yielded, even if they do not have it as a Morphic Bloodline themselves. They are temporarily treated as having this bloodline as a Morphic Bloodline if they did not before, and if they did not previously have it, may not allocate further points into it without again touching a being possessing, linked to, or capable of yielding a child with said bloodline. This means that if a Blood King has, say, a Red Dragon Descendant Major Morphic Bloodline and a Red Dragon familiar, he could touch it to more efficiently shift points into it. Or the very same King could touch a Blue Dragon and gain the benefits of a Blue Dragon Descendant Bloodline until he shifts the points back out. If the target has a Mudblood bloodline or is capable of yielding more than one bloodline, the Blood King may choose which component bloodline to Attune with. An additional note for use with Dragon Descendant Bloodlines: This can be used to obtain a Dragon Descendant Bloodline when used on an actual dragon (not necessarily a True Dragon), but not on half-dragons, spellscales, dragonwrought kobolds, or the like. They just aren't potent enough to produce the bloodline. Dragon Shamans, on the other hand, are viable.

Know Thy Blood (Ex): Blood Kings feel an innate attachment to beings with which they have an Affinity, and as such know more about them. Their Affinity bonuses now apply to Knowledge checks as well as social interaction checks.

Blood Mastery - Greater Sense (Su): The Blood King at this point has become attuned the essence of supernatural blood and can sense it at a range. At will, the Blood King may use this ability to sense beings possessing, linked to, or capable of yielding bloodlines. This ability functions as Detect Magic, except that it is these entities that are detected, not the presence of magic. When they would learn the strength of a magical aura, they instead learn the degree of the bloodline that is possessed or would be yielded.

Blood Mastery - Awaken (Su): Everyone has ancestry. If you go far enough back, surely they have a supernatural patron in their family tree. All you need to do is wake up that part of them. The Blood King gains the ability to use Shift Line to shift is Bloodline Points into another individual, causing them to be treated as if they had one of the Blood King's Morphic Bloodlines with a number of points in it equal to that which the Blood King shifted into them. The number of points may not exceed the subject's character level. At any time that the Blood King is reallocating their points, whether through Shift Line or after an eight hour rest, they may choose to recall the point back for their own use.

Greater Affinity (Su): Blood Kings know how to get their way in the world, especially with individuals with whom they have an Affinity. The Blood King may cast Charm Monster at will as a supernatural ability on a being with whom he has an Affinity. The caster level is equal to the Blood King's class level, except it cannot last longer than a single day. The DC is equal to 10 + his affinity bonus with that being.

Blood Mastery - Weakness in the Blood (Ex): One's blood tells all. If you know their blood, you know their body. Know their body, and you know how to kill them. The Blood King gains a bonus on all attack and damage rolls as well as on all bloodline ability DCs equal to his Affinity bonus with the target, with a maximum of +6. This does not apply to the DC of Greater Affinity.

Sovereign of Blood (Su): The Blood King is the absolute controller of supernatural bloodlines. He possesses the ability to grant and empower them to individuals that so wish it. As a full-round action, the Blood King may either bestow a bloodline he possesses as a Morphic Bloodline to a willing individual. The Blood King may choose what degree to make the bloodline and the subject immediately gains a number of permanent negative levels as appropriate for the degree of bloodline and their level. Similarly, he may increase the magnitude of an existing bloodline. Granting a minor bloodline takes 5 Shift Line uses, increasing a bloodline from Minor to Intermediate take 5, and increasing a bloodline from Intermediate to Major takes 10.

Note for characters with Natural Bloodlines: For the most part, Morphic Bloodlines are kept separate from Natural Bloodlines. If the Blood King has a Natural Bloodline with a degree less than Major, they may choose to allocate Bloodline Points to it to empower it. They may allocate up to 1/4 their level in BP to Minor Bloodlines and up to 1/2 their level in BP to Intermediate Bloodlines. Round up for both cases. Each point spent on a Minor Bloodline counts as an additional four levels for purposes of that bloodline, whereas each point spent on an Intermediate Bloodline counts as an additional two levels. Bloodline Points may freely be Shifted in and out of these bloodlines as per the normal rules of Shift Line.


Feats

Extra Shift
You've improved your ability to shift your Morphic Bloodlines to accomodate for unforeseen obstacles.
Prerequisite: Shift Line class feature
Benefit: You may use Shift Line an additional time per day.
Special: This feat may be taken more than once. It's effects stack.

Extra Line
You have awoken another Morphic Bloodline.
Prerequisite: Moprhic Bloodlines class feature
Benefit: You gain access to an additional Morphic Bloodline.
Special: This feat may be taken more than once. Choose a different Bloodline each time, or at least a Bloodline with a different Lineage.

Favored Line
You have embraced a specific bloodline, and increased your power with it.
Prerequisite: Morphic Bloodlines class feature
Benefit: You are treated as permanently having two Bloodline Points allocated in this bloodline, though they do not count towards the max that you may allocate, nor may they be Shifted. In this way you may surpass the usual limitations.
Special: This feat may be taken more than once. Choose a different Bloodline each time.
Special: If a Favored Line is included in a Mixed Line (See below) which has been allocated one or more points, then this feat instead grants a one point bonus to the Mixed Line. Once there are no points in the mix, this changes to the standard two point bonus to the designated line. This stacks, if more than one line in the Mix is favored. A Mix itself cannot be Favored.

One's Own Blood
Though you may have a Bloodlines using different aspects of yourself to fuel their powers, you have mastered the art of using only your true essence, your strongest self, for these purposes.
Prerequisite: Morphic Bloodlines class feature
Benefit: You use your highest mental stat in place of Charisma, Intelligence and Wisdom wherever they are mentioned in your Morphic Bloodlines.

Mixed Lines - Courtesy of Owthro
You have learned to combine some of your bloodlines.
Prerequisite: Morphic Bloodlines class feature, Access to three bloodlines
Benefit: Select two bloodlines you have access to. You gain a mixed bloodline with them as the component bloodlines. At the beginning of each day when you decide to assign your bloodline points, you decide the mix of your mixed bloodline. To do so, for each level of it, select that level's ability from one of the component bloodlines. You may reassign the mix each day, though it may not be reassigned with the Shift Line ability. You may not have BP points assigned to a mixed bloodline at the same time as any of its component bloodlines, or another mixed bloodline that shares a component bloodline with it. If one of the component bloodlines uses a point system, only levels for which it grants an ability from that bloodline count for the points. If a bloodline a series of abilities that build upon one another (Such as the maneuvers of the Bladechild), the prior abilities must be taken before the subsequent ones.
Special: This feat may be taken more than once. Choose different component Bloodlines each time. You may select a mixed bloodline you already possess. If you do, any component bloodlines of that mixed bloodline are considered components of it. If a bloodline has multiple Lineages, treat each lineage as a separate bloodline for the purposes of this feat and counting component bloodlines.


And done. Whew. A lot of work. I look forward to playing this.

radmelon
2011-09-01, 04:09 PM
You know, I hadn't thought that a class based on bloodlines could work, but you did it. Have an internet.

Welknair
2011-09-01, 04:10 PM
You know, I hadn't thought that a class based on bloodlines could work, but you did it. Have an internet.

:smallbiggrin:

I'll hopefully be playing this in the Homebrewer's Campaign (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213670) I've been organizing, so I made sure it was some of my best work.

TravelLog
2011-09-01, 04:16 PM
Just so I fully understand, a 20th level Blood King could use his BP to have 10 levels in four bloodlines but would only gain the benefits of the first 10 levels of those bloodlines?

Could you maybe show an example 20th level character of this class with all his BP assigned?

Welknair
2011-09-01, 04:51 PM
Just so I fully understand, a 20th level Blood King could use his BP to have 10 levels in four bloodlines but would only gain the benefits of the first 10 levels of those bloodlines?

Could you maybe show an example 20th level character of this class with all his BP assigned?

That is correct. Or he could choose to be treated as 20th level in two, or 4th level in 10 and so on.


I've never been great at making stat blocks... I'll need to look at some similar character stat blocks before I go making one for this class, though it would be a good idea.

TravelLog
2011-09-01, 05:08 PM
As a sidenote, I think another great class feature would be the ability to choose one/two stats and have that modifier be taken as they key modifier(s) for all of their bloodlines so that they don't suffer from such insane
MAD. Maybe an alternate capstone for more self-oriented players (like solo games) or just as an additional boon?

I love it as a whole, and think it will be fascinating to watch it in action in your Homebrewer's Campaign.

Lots of synergy, and great class features. Attune does need clarification about the degree of efficiency it adds for BP allocation. For example, touching a Red Dragon should probably grant greater efficiency than touching a Dragonblooded/Dragontouched/Half-dragon or a templated creature. Just a though. It mainly originated from the issue of draconic heritage feats etc. On certain PC races making this potentially abusable.

Welknair
2011-09-01, 05:23 PM
As a sidenote, I think another great class feature would be the ability to choose one/two stats and have that modifier be taken as they key modifier(s) for all of their bloodlines so that they don't suffer from such insane
MAD. Maybe an alternate capstone for more self-oriented players (like solo games) or just as an additional boon?

Hmm. Well for the most part Charisma is used for the DCs of powers, but aside from that everything is based on level, instead of a key stat. Namegiven relies on Int and Half-Blood on Wis, though. On the other side, I don't know if it's right to make it easier for these guys to utilize all of these systems at once. It may be better if they choose a smaller subset

If I were to add this in, I don't think it would be a capstone, as that still means they'd be suffering through MAD for 19 levels. More likely, I'd make it a feat.


Attune does need clarification about the degree of efficiency it adds for BP allocation. For example, touching a Red Dragon should probably grant greater efficiency than touching a Dragonblooded/Dragontouched/Half-dragon or a templated creature. Just a though. It mainly originated from the issue of draconic heritage feats etc. On certain PC races making this potentially abusable.

Hmm... I'll try to remedy this.


And I'm glad that you like it.

EdroGrimshell
2011-09-01, 06:09 PM
...I'm going to play this. I'll also keep track of that gamebetter yet, i'll see about DMing it.

This will be much better when you finish all the bloodlines you're working on.

Welknair
2011-09-01, 06:19 PM
This will be much better when you finish all the bloodlines you're working on.

Yup. Right now I think I have just enough for this to be viably playable. I am planning on finishing all those on my to-do list. Just been a bit busy recently.

Owrtho
2011-09-01, 06:43 PM
This looks quite interesting. I'd suggest noting how it works with people who already have a bloodline. Do they gain extra BP, or do these just stack on top of the bloodline they have. It seems like it would be a good class for a blooded (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11654033&postcount=53). Perhaps I'll think about some racial substitution levels, though I'm not sure what they'd do.

Also a thought for a feat. it would generally grant the ability to have some late level abilities from one bloodline while gaining the lower level abilities of another, though with limitations. May need some cleaning up for wording.

Mixed Lines
You have learned to combine some of your bloodlines.
Prerequisite: Morphic Bloodlines class feature, Access to three bloodlines
Benefit: Select two bloodlines you have access to. You gain a mixed bloodline with them as the component bloodlines. At the beginning of each day when you decide to assign your bloodline points, you decide the mix of your mixed bloodline. To do so, for each level of it, select that level's ability from one of the component bloodlines. You may reassign the mix each day, though it may not be reassigned with the Shift Line ability. You may not have BP points assigned to a mixed bloodline at the same time as any of its component bloodlines, or another mixed bloodline that shares a component bloodline with it. If one of the component bloodlines uses a point system, only levels for which it grants an ability from that bloodline count for the points
Special: This feat may be taken more than once. Choose different component Bloodlines each time. You may select a mixed bloodline you already possess. If you do, any component bloodlines of that mixed bloodline are considered components of it. If a bloodline has multiple Lineages, treat each lineage as a separate bloodline for the purposes of this feat and counting component bloodlines.

Owrtho

Welknair
2011-09-01, 07:16 PM
Added info for Natural Bloodline Blood Kings and added your feat. Thank you very much, Owthro.


Edit: Added One's Own Blood feat, as suggested for MAD v SAD. I'm afraid it may be so good it'll be considered a feat tax. Do you guys think I should grant it for free at 1st level?

Fitz10019
2011-09-02, 09:00 AM
I'm sorry, but "Blood King" is too cool of a name for a base class. Please downgrade the name. Perhaps Blood Dude.

Welknair
2011-09-02, 09:25 AM
I'm sorry, but "Blood King" is too cool of a name for a base class. Please downgrade the name. Perhaps Blood Dude.

I stole the awesomeness from my last bloodline's name. The Inherent. Bleck. Couldn't come up with something I was happy with for that one.

But if I'm going to be playing this thing, it oughta at least have a good name.

-Evil Voice- SANGUINE SOVEREIGN

Daverin
2011-09-02, 10:29 AM
So... Welk? Remember that thing I said that you sigged? Well. Go ahead and turn that up to 11. Just go ahead. Do it.

I NEVER would have thought of a class based on bloodlines. That is just insanely awesome.

Welknair
2011-09-02, 10:49 AM
So... Welk? Remember that thing I said that you sigged? Well. Go ahead and turn that up to 11. Just go ahead. Do it.

I NEVER would have thought of a class based on bloodlines. That is just insanely awesome.

:smallbiggrin:


I'm thinking about stating that your are treated as your full character level for level-dependent abilities, but you only gain access to Bloodline features as appropriate to the number of points you allocated into that line. This would make dabbling in multiple lines far more viable, as currently the only way to have powers that do squat is to have two maxed bloodlines. Yeah, I think I'll change that. Still thinking about what to do about One's Own Blood.


So for my first 3 (Morph says that he has a preference towards 3rd level), I'm thinking a Bladechild of some sort, Noble-Blood and perhaps a Magyk-Touched. Or maybe Titankith, that was a good one..

Edit: Made the aforementioned change, and decided not to do anything about One's Own Blood. Only caster-specialized Blood Kings would make much use of it, in which case I think it's a fair trade for the powers they'd get.

Editedit: One's Own Blood with a character that has a high in Int. And then get the Kitten-Friend. You get to add your Int modifier to Diplomacy, Bluff, and Gather Information. And you have cat ears. I'm not whether this is bad or awesome.

Pyromancer999
2011-09-02, 01:27 PM
This class is pretty good overall, except for one thing: The amount of Blood Points. Basically, if only invested into two bloodlines for max capacity, it's like having two Major Bloodlines...and not much else. Definitely needs an increase in the amount of Blood Points, and maybe a bonus based on Wis or Con or some other ability score.

Welknair
2011-09-02, 01:46 PM
This class is pretty good overall, except for one thing: The amount of Blood Points. Basically, if only invested into two bloodlines for max capacity, it's like having two Major Bloodlines...and not much else. Definitely needs an increase in the amount of Blood Points, and maybe a bonus based on Wis or Con or some other ability score.

Hmm.. LevelX3+Cha?

I do agree that it needs more points, especially at later levels, but boosting the flat rate is going to result in early-level Blood Kings having more points than they can spend.

Perhaps I should change it from a linear progression to an exponential one?

2
3
5
8
12
17
23
30
38
47
57
68
80
93

---

Nope, too fast.

2 - Two maxed
4
6
9
12
15
19
23
27 - Three maxed
32
37
42
48
56 - Four maxed
62
69
76
83
91
99 - One short of 5 maxed

Hmm... That's a bit better, though still may be too much at later levels. And that's not including some method of working in an ability score bonus. And if I'm going to increase the number of BP so much, an increase in Shift Line may also be warranted..

Edit: For the ability bonus, I'm thinking about modeling it after that for Psionics. Ability modifier X Blood King level X 1/4. So you'd pretty much just take the table here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/index.htm) and halve the values. That means at 5th, when you'd likely have an 18, you'd have a total of 17 points. At 10th when you'd have a likely have around a 22 (after items), you'd have 47 points. At 15th with around 28, that'd be 95. And lastly at 20th at around 32, that'd be 154.

...

That's a bit more than the current 40, and I think it puts too much emphasis on the ability score as it ends up making up over a third of the total points, as opposed to the just-under-a-fourth with the Psion and this system.

More thought needed.

Pyromancer999
2011-09-02, 02:08 PM
2 - Two maxed
4
6
9
12
15
19
23
27 - Three maxed
32
37
42
48
56 - Four maxed
62
69
76
83
91
99 - One short of 5 maxed

Hmm... That's a bit better, though still may be too much at later levels. And that's not including some method of working in an ability score bonus. And if I'm going to increase the number of BP so much, an increase in Shift Line may also be warranted..

I like this one.

Welknair
2011-09-02, 02:24 PM
I like this one.

I concur. Though there is still the matter of how the ability score plays in. See my previous post for the ninja'd edit on that topic.

And then there's the matter of which ability score to key it off of. Whatever I choose, I'll need to include the caveat that bonuses to that stat from bloodlines do not increase your BP.

Charisma would be nice and synergistic with the requirements of most of the casting lines and represents the type of self-exploration I'm aiming for as the power source for this class. Then again, Con isn't used for any of the casting and as such wouldn't cause Blood King to be biased towards those and away from int and wis based lines, while at the same time representing how the Blood King has greater control over their body. Then Wisdom could similarly be used to represent the discipline they possess...

Again, more thought needed.

Edit: For the ability score formula, maybe bump it down again to Ability Score X Blood King level X 1/8? I think that's a bit more reasonable...

Editedit: If I am increasing the BP like this, do you think I should reverse my previous change about level-based effects always using the full level instead of the number of points in that line? I think I may.. Again only casting ones take a real hit from this, and I think those should generally require more investment anyways..

Pyromancer999
2011-09-02, 02:42 PM
I concur. Though there is still the matter of how the ability score plays in. See my previous post for the ninja'd edit on that topic.

And then there's the matter of which ability score to key it off of. Whatever I choose, I'll need to include the caveat that bonuses to that stat from bloodlines do not increase your BP.

Charisma would be nice and synergistic with the requirements of most of the casting lines and represents the type of self-exploration I'm aiming for as the power source for this class. Then again, Con isn't used for any of the casting and as such wouldn't cause Blood King to be biased towards those and away from int and wis based lines, while at the same time representing how the Blood King has greater control over their body. Then Wisdom could similarly be used to represent the discipline they possess...

Again, more thought needed.

Edit: For the ability score formula, maybe bump it down again to Ability Score X Blood King level X 1/8? I think that's a bit more reasonable...

Editedit: If I am increasing the BP like this, do you think I should reverse my previous change about level-based effects always using the full level instead of the number of points in that line? I think I may.. Again only casting ones take a real hit from this, and I think those should generally require more investment anyways..

I like the edit ability score formula. Not entirely sure what you're talking about in the editedit, though.

Welknair
2011-09-02, 02:47 PM
I like the edit ability score formula. Not entirely sure what you're talking about in the editedit, though.

Originally level-dependent effects of a bloodline (such as the CL of a Magyk-Touched's spells or the damage of a Dragon Descendent's Breath Weapon) were dependent upon the number of points in that bloodline, but I later changed it to equal to full Blood King level despite the number of points. This was because with only enough points to max two bloodlines, your abilities really weren't potent unless you maxed those lines, resulting in you always having two maxed lines. With the full level change you become able to dabble in multiple lines and still have the abilities be useful. But now that the Blood King has such a greater number of points, I don't think this is going to be a problem. And so I changed it back.

Still need to decide on what ability score to use.

And I'm thinking about making a second base class that is to this what the Wilder is to the Psion and the Sorcerer is to the Wizard. But you know... with hopefully less sucky-ness. They'd be able to Shift at will but have a much smaller selection of Bloodlines.

Edit: Thinking Con or Wis for this one, Cha likely for the other.

Owrtho
2011-09-02, 03:00 PM
Well, just thought I'd mention first, you seem to have a typo in Morphic Bloodlines. The table shows you getting a new bloodline every even level, and 2 at first. The description states you get 2 at first, and one every odd level after.

As for blood points, lets look at some possible variations.
Linear is what you currently have. Yours, is your current proposed progression. Sum, is simply adding a number of blood points equal to the level you are gaining to your current total (and gives far too many, avoid it). Partial sum is adding half the new level, rounded down, minimum 2. Prime increases each level by the number of prime numbered levels you already have taken (if a minimum of 2 were enforced, you just need to add 1 for every level after 1st).

Bolded numbers show each time increase in the maxed number of maxed lines.

{table=head]Level|linear|yours|sum|partial sum|prime
01|2|2|2|2|2
02|4|4|4|4|3
03|6|6|7|6|5
04|8|9|11|8|7
05|10|12|16|10|10
06|12|15|22|13|13
07|14|19|29|16|17
08|16|23|37|20|21
09|18|27|46|24|25
10|20|32|56|29|29
11|22|37|67|34|34
12|24|42|79|40|39
13|26|48|92|46|45
14|28|56|106|53|51
15|30|62|121|60|57
16|32|69|137|68|63
17|34|76|154|76|70
18|36|83|172|85|77
19|38|91|191|94|85
20|40|99|211|104|93[/table]

As for your ruling on if level based abilities are based on level or points invested, I'd say it depends on how many blood points you end up with overall. Personally, while I think it's nice for ability modifiers to improve ones point pool, I'm not so sure about having it scale with level, and if it does, it should be kept rather low.
As for what ability to use, I'd say Con would work best, as most characters benefit from a high con, and it is generally tied to things based on one's blood.

Edit: seems you changed the bp progression while I was typing this post. Still linear is what you had.

Owrtho

Welknair
2011-09-02, 03:21 PM
-Snip-

Thank you for catching that typo - fixed.

As you saw I added the new BP progression. And I just finished adding the bit on the bonus due to high Con. Feeling much better about the quantity of BP they get.

Edit: Hey, I could alter Shift Line to shift a number of BP equal to your Con Mod or one, whichever is greater. That would help with the greater number number of BP, though it would require tweaking Attune. Perhaps then Attune would just use same rate as normal Shifting.

TravelLog
2011-09-02, 03:53 PM
{table=head]Level|Blood Points
01|2
02|4
03|6
04|8
05|10
06|13
07|16
08|19
09|22
10|26
11|30
12|34
13|38
14|43
15|48
16|53
17|58
18|64
19|70
20|76[/table]

The Progression is this:
Start=2
Levels 2-5: +2
Levels 6-9: +3
Levels 10-13: +4
Levels 14-17: +5
Levels 18-20: +6

You might wish to tweak the system slightly, but I think it achieves a good balance of giving more blood points, but not so many as to be overpowering. You can max out 3 bloodlines, get to level 10 in a fourth, and get to level 5 in a fifth, with one point to spare.
Essentially, it's 3 Major, 1 Intermediate, 1 Minor or alternatively 2 Major, 3 Intermediate, 1 Minor.

Welknair
2011-09-02, 03:59 PM
The Progression is this:
Start=2
Levels 2-5: +2
Levels 6-9: +3
Levels 10-13: +4
Levels 14-17: +5
Levels 18-20: +6

You might wish to tweak the system slightly, but I think it achieves a good balance of giving more blood points, but not so many as to be overpowering. You can max out 3 bloodlines, get to level 10 in a fourth, and get to level 5 in a fifth, with one point to spare.
Essentially, it's 3 Major, 1 Intermediate, 1 Minor or alternatively 2 Major, 3 Intermediate, 1 Minor.

That would have been the next step down, had I determined my current pattern was too much (Which I may yet do). My current pattern is:

Start=2
Levels 2-4: +2
Levels 5-7: +3
Levels 8-10: +4
Levels 11-13: +5
Levels 14-16: +6
Levels 17-18: +7
Levels 19-20: +8

The increment that I add increases every three levels whereas under yours it's every four. I had tried every level and every other prior to settling on my current pattern. Hmm... I may downgrade..

Edit: Changed Shift Line to now shift up to Con Mod BP. That should help accommodate for the increased quantity of BP. This makes it far more powerful at early levels, capable of reassigning all, or most of a Blood King's BP. At later levels multiple uses of the ability are required to make more substantial changes whereas brief adjustments may be made in a single round. It also makes Con even more valuable as now the higher one's Con is, the more flexible they are.

Editedit: Added the caveat saying that Shift Line may not be used more than once a round and changed the Races entry to include Blooded.

I've been thinking about that shift in Shift Line, and how now at 20th level it's still likely enough to completely reassign all the Blood King's BP. However, it does take 10 rounds to do so.. I think that this boosts Shift Line to the point where it actually registers on the power of the class. Thoughts on the power level of this? I'm not sure that I want them to be able to completely reassign everything... Perhaps I should change it to 1/2 Con Mod. That may be more reasonable.

Editeditedit: Made the aforementioned change. Now 1/2 con mod. Now if my math isn't horribly off they should be able to change around half their points during the course of the day.

Amechra
2011-09-06, 09:30 PM
Mixed Bloodline can do some interesting things with a Mudblood Bloodline; since it would mean that nifty stuff is granted at different levels, letting you get rid of stuff you don't want, while keeping all the good stuff...

Owrtho
2011-09-06, 11:07 PM
You can't use it with mudblood bloodlines as they aren't valid choices for the Morphic Bloodlines ability. Also, abilities have to stay at the same level you would gain them otherwise.

Owrtho

Welknair
2011-09-06, 11:11 PM
Mixed Bloodline can do some interesting things with a Mudblood Bloodline; since it would mean that nifty stuff is granted at different levels, letting you get rid of stuff you don't want, while keeping all the good stuff...


You can't use it with mudblood bloodlines as they aren't valid choices for the Morphic Bloodlines ability. Also, abilities have to stay at the same level you would gain them otherwise.

Owrtho

Though it still does allow for some interesting strategy in how one goes about choosing the allocation of their BP. Combine that with Blooded Synergy for skill challenges and the ability to shift BP around with Shift Line, and you have some interesting choices to make.

What do you guys think about the current balance-level? Too strong? Too weak? With the quantity of BP it's currently set to have, I think it should be up-to-snuff with the other classes, though I am still somewhat concerned about that it won't have the sheer power of the others.

Lord_Gareth
2011-09-07, 09:54 AM
I have deep, deep concerns that even Major bloodlines =/= Real Actual Class features. That is, after all, why they gain twenty levels worth of stuff in exchange for only sacrificing three levels of advancement.

Pyromancer999
2011-09-07, 12:49 PM
I have deep, deep concerns that even Major bloodlines =/= Real Actual Class features. That is, after all, why they gain twenty levels worth of stuff in exchange for only sacrificing three levels of advancement.

The thing is, while they do get 20 levels of stuff, most of the earlier stuff isn't exactly too strong nor equivalent to a class feature. It's usually at the later levels that anything comes to resemble a class feature in comparative power.

Daverin
2011-09-07, 01:45 PM
I think you read that in the wrong direction. If anything, Gareth looks concerned that even major bloodlines are not really potent enough to build a class around. Whether or not that is true depends entirely on how well they scale with their class feature derivatives. I have no clue, for example, if the ToB bloodline gives high enough level maneuvers to last all 20 levels. That said, it would not prevent me from making a character with this class at some point. :smallbiggrin:

Lord_Gareth
2011-09-07, 01:52 PM
I think you read that in the wrong direction. If anything, Gareth looks concerned that even major bloodlines are not really potent enough to build a class around. Whether or not that is true depends entirely on how well they scale with their class feature derivatives. I have no clue, for example, if the ToB bloodline gives high enough level maneuvers to last all 20 levels. That said, it would not prevent me from making a character with this class at some point. :smallbiggrin:

This is correct; my concern is weakness, not strength.

Amechra
2011-09-07, 03:54 PM
Properly chosen, your 5 maxed bloodlines at 20th level could be, for example, a Bladeborn with Breath of Fire maneuvers, Dragon Descendant (pick one, it doesn't matter), Chosen of the Far Realms (you get a bunch of Murmurs at full strength), and then maybe... Tinkerer and Akodrin, maybe?

Then you have a bunch of Breaches to use, along with a Breath Weapon and maneuvers that stem off of that.

In other words, it probably would be about a weak tier 3, with some of the bloodlines synergising like crazy.

EdroGrimshell
2011-09-07, 05:27 PM
Here's an idea, expansions on the bloodlines a Blood King uses. Have a class feature that is assigned to each bloodline and lineage and grant them at certain levels when a bloodline is at a certain level. Some would be distinctly easier of course, like just having a small selection of maneuvers for the blade-born that scales with the bloodline strength rather than Blood King levels.

EDIT: I also think that a racial sub level for Mongrelfolk would be interesting, based off the Foregoer's family Traits class feature. Same with other mixed races like those with the dragonblood subtype and similar ones.

Owrtho
2011-09-07, 05:37 PM
Or another possibility is to use the Quisling, Akodrin, Emergent Atrocity, and maybe Remnant (with harrowings that grant natural attacks) and Bladechild (if you can find a good maneuver chain for full attacks). Then you make use of your huge number of attacks (from features, grafts, and harrowings), all with increased damage from Torment the Weak, and benefiting from whatever maneuvers you're using. Though it does leave you seeming rather monstrous.

As for the class being too weak, while I do think it can be fine at later levels, at least at first level I expect the class is quite weak. At level 1 it has no offensive abilities, no defensive abilities, half BAB, and only a minor skill boost and the ability to see if someone might be able to provide a bloodline.

Owrtho

enderlord99
2011-09-07, 06:37 PM
THIS IS THE GREATEST CLASS EVER!!!

Welknair
2011-09-08, 12:15 AM
Here's an idea, expansions on the bloodlines a Blood King uses. Have a class feature that is assigned to each bloodline and lineage and grant them at certain levels when a bloodline is at a certain level. Some would be distinctly easier of course, like just having a small selection of maneuvers for the blade-born that scales with the bloodline strength rather than Blood King levels.

Hmm... An interesting idea. I think I'll ponder that a bit.


Or another possibility is to use the Quisling, Akodrin, Emergent Atrocity, and maybe Remnant (with harrowings that grant natural attacks) and Bladechild (if you can find a good maneuver chain for full attacks). Then you make use of your huge number of attacks (from features, grafts, and harrowings), all with increased damage from Torment the Weak, and benefiting from whatever maneuvers you're using. Though it does leave you seeming rather monstrous.

As for the class being too weak, while I do think it can be fine at later levels, at least at first level I expect the class is quite weak. At level 1 it has no offensive abilities, no defensive abilities, half BAB, and only a minor skill boost and the ability to see if someone might be able to provide a bloodline.

Owrtho

I'm not too sure about what to do at first level. Perhaps state that at first they may allocate two BP into a Morphic Bloodline, instead of the one that would be the usual max? This would allow them to use a Special Ability, at least...


So the general vibe I'm getting is that unless you're very wise in your selections to make sure that all of the bloodlines synergize, it's a bit too weak. I like Edro's idea of class features based on bloodlines, and think I may expand on it a bit. Any other suggestions on how to go about giving them a power-boost? At this point I don't think more BP is going to do much..

Amechra
2011-09-08, 02:22 AM
You can steal the basic idea behind Hunter's Blood, if you'd like; give a Favored Enemy-style bonus to damage (and maybe attack?) against creatures that are one of your Bloodline Affinities based off the following:

{table=head]BP Allocated|Bonus
1-4|+2
5-9|+3
10-14|+4
15-19|+5
20|+6[/table]

With the attack bonus maybe equaling half of that?

EdroGrimshell
2011-09-08, 05:33 AM
Hmm... An interesting idea. I think I'll ponder that a bit.

So the general vibe I'm getting is that unless you're very wise in your selections to make sure that all of the bloodlines synergize, it's a bit too weak. I like Edro's idea of class features based on bloodlines, and think I may expand on it a bit. Any other suggestions on how to go about giving them a power-boost? At this point I don't think more BP is going to do much..

I can help with some of the stuff, it was my idea so i should help with it right? :smalltongue:

Let me take a look through the Bloodlines and come up with a theme to work with.

Daverin
2011-09-08, 07:40 AM
I like the sound of that, too. It can both can make sure the class gets the most out of the bloodlines, while being very thematic.

Welknair
2011-09-08, 08:30 AM
You can steal the basic idea behind Hunter's Blood, if you'd like; give a Favored Enemy-style bonus to damage (and maybe attack?) against creatures that are one of your Bloodline Affinities based off the following:

{table=head]BP Allocated|Bonus
1-4|+2
5-9|+3
10-14|+4
15-19|+5
20|+6[/table]

With the attack bonus maybe equaling half of that?

This is a bit like Weakness in the Blood, granted at 17th. So maybe I should just rejigger things so you get that ability (or a tweaked version of it) earlier?

And again, I'm going to see if I can make the bloodline class features work.

enderlord99
2011-09-10, 01:42 PM
Why have people stopped commenting?!? This is the best class ever! Although, maybe they aren't commenting because it's perfect and there's nothing to add...

EDIT: I linked here in my signature, so people can more easily find the superamazingawesomeness.

EDIT2: Please don't kill me with your awesome (it's a very real possibility) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKrtbUinWOU)

Welknair
2011-09-10, 02:00 PM
Why have people stopped commenting?!? This is the best class ever! Although, maybe they aren't commenting because it's perfect and there's nothing to add...

EDIT: I linked here in my signature, so people can more easily find the superamazingawesomeness.

EDIT2: Please don't kill me with your awesome (it's a very real possibility) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKrtbUinWOU)

Why thank you, I'm glad to see the class is liked.


Though I do think it is still lacking a bit in power. I now have written up a scaling class feature for every bloodline that I have made (Minus the Inherent, having problems with that one, and plus the Blood Chameleon that I haven't posted). I'll hopefully post them later today, if not tomorrow morning. They're going to require quite a bit of PEACHing.

Edit: I added the first couple of Blood Gifts. Just a few. I assure you, I do have the rest done (Except for the Inherent. Grr.), I just want to see how these go over. I think they are of an appropriate power level, though I'm not sure. If you have full points in Bladechild, it pretty much bumps your BAB up to Full. PEACHing very much appreciated. Too much, too little, etc.

enderlord99
2011-09-10, 09:54 PM
I He can has moar comments?

(translation: "Please make more comments in this thread, because it is awesome")

(translation of the translation: "Bump.")

Welknair
2011-09-11, 07:35 PM
I've posted all of the Blood Gifts for Bloodlines not based off of another class. PEACHing would be most appreciated for balance level.

Owrtho
2011-09-11, 07:57 PM
Well, after briefly skimming through them, they don't seem overly powerful, and might offer the needed boost at early levels, while scaling reasonably well for later ones. That said, I'd need to look in more detail to be more precise, and am currently busy with other things.

Owrtho

Welknair
2011-09-11, 08:18 PM
Well, after briefly skimming through them, they don't seem overly powerful, and might offer the needed boost at early levels, while scaling reasonably well for later ones.

That's exactly what I was aiming for.

It's just that I have so many (That's less than half of them) that I'm a tad worried about making them reasonably well balanced against one another and against everything else.

Magyk-Lash is the only one usable at-will with no cooldown. It additionally allows no save and doesn't require an attack roll. On the other hand, it only deals Points damage, which is very sub-par if the character is aiming to be a Blaster. It still concerns me a bit though.. Especially when compared to Smite Heathen which deals an equal amount of damage, but requires a roll and has a times per day limitation. However it takes a set-aside action to use Magyk-Lash whereas you just slap the Smite onto your normal attack and it's normal damage. But Lash is a force-effect, which means it can target all manner of other creatures.. Do you think I should add a cooldown or a times per day limit to Lash? Hmmph.

Anyways, when you have time, a more thorough look-through would be appreciated.

flabort
2011-09-11, 08:25 PM
I'm looking, in a desperate attempt to help you out here, and I can't find anything much wrong with the Blood Gifts. I felt an "Eh, that might be strong" when reading Titankith's and Noble Blood's abilities, Titan's Resilience and Order respectively, but looking at them again, it's not too bad.

And looking at them a third time, I feel their too strong again.

Titan's Resilience only gives 40 HP at 20th level, which seems like a lot, but at level 20 you should have between 40 and n HP already. 40 if you're a squishy wizard. And they wear out... in 20 minutes. Assuming average rolls with 1d10, or once every 4.5 minutes, you'll have a period of around 2 minutes where you have 160 temporary HP from this. If you go without combat for at least 20 minutes, that's a lot or temporary HP. Put a times per day cap on it?

Order... "I want you to go assassinate the King. When you're done with that, assassinate every cleric of Pelor you can find. Then Pelor himself"
That's what I thought on my first read. On my second, I saw "Up to one minute", and saw it's only 5 times per day, so you'd have to be uncomfortably close to the king's abode to Order that. And Pelor's clerics would most definitely be safe.
On my third read through, I realized you could indirectly Order destruction to the target, even though not directly. "Stop fighting us, and walk down that long hallway (That we haven't checked for traps), and open the door (Which happens to be far enough away that the mage's fireball won't hurt us)". If you have five encounters a day, and approximately 1/2 of these have more than one monster, and 1/2 of them are against humanoids, you'll be against about 3~7 hostile humanoids a day. Which you could order not to fight you. And then nuke from afar when their far enough away.
And at level 20, that's a DC 30+Cha save they have to beat. Nasty.

Shrunk text to prevent wall of text.
Not bad, over all. Those two stuck out as potential problems, though.

Welknair
2011-09-11, 08:44 PM
-Snip-

Now that is very helpful, thank you.

First off, I think I should point out that Temporary HP does not stack, it overlaps. So that just means every 1d10 minutes you can reset that Temp HP. Though thinking back on it, it is a bit powerful.. Because if you have at least five minutes in between each encounter, you pretty much have a passive HP boost. Bit of quick math and that's as if he had a d12 instead of a d8 (To be compared with Blood Boon's Full BAB instead of 3/4). So I think either I'll add a per day limit or bump it down to 1x Points.

And for Order, I think that I'll specify that you can't have any "And" clauses. It needs to be a single command. You could opt to expend multiple uses for a more complex command. As for the sending them down a trapped hallway, that'd count as a "Self-Destructive" action, unless they were unaware of the traps. Why would you be encountering humanoids in a dungeon unless they were the caretakers of said dungeon? And the 5/day is at 20th level. And that's going to drain you 20 points into a Bloodline that otherwise has relatively little Combat utility. Still don't know if that's enough to justify some of the things you could potentially do with it, though..

Oh, and the DC would be 20+Cha, not 30+. It's half points, not full.

enderlord99
2011-09-12, 05:34 PM
This is too awesome to die!

flabort
2011-09-12, 09:38 PM
Don't worry, it won't die. As long as we keep peaching.

Is 20 force damage (If you sink 20 points into magyk touched) as a standard action every round to anything within 75 ft., no save or miss chance, balanced? I don't know why I didn't see it before.
It won't kill a 20th level character in one hit. Especially with a positive Con modifier. But it will kill groups of mooks and innocents pretty easily (one Standard action/target), if the players are like that.

Welknair
2011-09-12, 09:42 PM
Is 20 force damage (If you sink 20 points into magyk touched) as a standard action every round to anything within 75 ft., no save or miss chance, balanced? I don't know why I didn't see it before.
It won't kill a 20th level character in one hit. Especially with a positive Con modifier. But it will kill groups of mooks and innocents pretty easily (one Standard action/target), if the players are like that.

Well I was balancing primarily against Warlock's Eldritch Blast..

But yeah. Time for a /day limit or at least a cooldown. Points times per day? Or every 1d6 rounds? I think the per day limit is probably better suited here.

Or I could go more for what Warlock did and require a Ranged Touch Attack.. Hmm.

Tacitus
2011-09-12, 09:49 PM
Points in Damage isn't overwhelming at any level along the way. Such damage at will with no way to avoid it is... potentially abuse-able but still not overwhelming. Making it Ranged Touch would vastly improve it. Hell, could go Ranged Touch as a Standard or Attack Action for normal Ranged.

Because honestly, Warlock EB is poor and this, with attack rolls, would still be worse than that. Hell, most Warlock fixes I see give them more than a single blast per round anyhow.

flabort
2011-09-12, 09:49 PM
Well I was balancing primarily against Warlock's Eldritch Blast..

But yeah. Time for a /day limit or at least a cooldown. Points times per day? Or every 1d6 rounds? I think the per day limit is probably better suited here.

Or I could go more for what Warlock did and require a Ranged Touch Attack.. Hmm.

5+points force damage, ranged touch with 1d4 cooldown. So that increases it to 25 force/attack... but gives a miss chance, and prevents them from using it all the time.

Maybe. It's your class.

TravelLog
2011-09-12, 09:59 PM
I'm a little worried about the Noble-Blooded's "Order" ability. Giving the class an ability like that is extremely volatile, especially given how high it can be. By level 20, I would expect the save DC to be at least 35 if not 40+. And since the circumstance modifier is minimal (only -2), the PC could conceivably Order a King to simply hand over their entire treasury, or to Order a General to have the army surrender, without any real chance of failure when the NPC in question isn't very powerful. Any mundane NPC would be at their mercy. I recommend making a number of circumstance modifiers ranging from -2 to maybe even -10 or -15 depending on the nature of the command. Like telling a father to "slay your young son" would be a -15...or at the absolute least a -5.

Welknair
2011-09-13, 07:16 PM
By level 20, I would expect the save DC to be at least 35 if not 40+. And since the circumstance modifier is minimal (only -2), the PC could conceivably Order a King to simply hand over their entire treasury, or to Order a General to have the army surrender, without any real chance of failure when the NPC in question isn't very powerful. Any mundane NPC would be at their mercy. I recommend making a number of circumstance modifiers ranging from -2 to maybe even -10 or -15 depending on the nature of the command. Like telling a father to "slay your young son" would be a -15...or at the absolute least a -5.

Uhh... Usually when someone uses Ability Score abbreviations, they're referring to the Modifiers, not the entire score. So unless you have a 40 in Charisma, you won't be getting to DC 35.

As for the modifiers and potential abuses.. You have a point. I'll attempt to remedy that.

Edit: Some changes made.

enderlord99
2011-09-15, 08:22 PM
Why is this off the first page?!?!

Yes, I am obsessed with this class. Why do you ask?

EdroGrimshell
2011-09-15, 08:41 PM
Why is this off the first page?!?!

Enough already. :smallannoyed:

You should realize that we need more bloodlines for this to use before we can really get much more in updating, and posting just for the sake of keeping a class on page one without something constructive is sorta frowned upon.

Let some more bloodlines come first then this thing can get some more updates. Be patient and it will be improved on.

Welknair
2011-09-15, 10:24 PM
Enough already. :smallannoyed:

You should realize that we need more bloodlines for this to use before we can really get much more in updating, and posting just for the sake of keeping a class on page one without something constructive is sorta frowned upon.

Let some more bloodlines come first then this thing can get some more updates. Be patient and it will be improved on.

Thank you, I couldn't have said it better myself.


I appreciate your enthusiasm, but what I really need here is some critiques. And honestly, it's not done yet. Due to the nature of it, it'll never be done. Whenever I make a new Bloodline, that's another aspect of this class. This weekend I plan to post the rest of the Gifts (At which point I was planning on bumping it asking for critiques on said new Gifts) as well as the Blood Chameleon Bloodline.

If things go the way I think they will, this'll be on-and-off the front page for quite a while. Just be patient and it'll come back up.

flabort
2011-09-16, 09:48 PM
If things go the way I think they will, this'll be on-and-off the front page for quite a while. Just be patient and it'll come back up.

hopefully for several years :smallbiggrin: :smalltongue:

looking forward to seeing the blood chameleon line (is that the one based off of bloodking?), and the other gifts.
What will the blood chameleon blood gift be like? I'm interested, because, Yo, dawg.

I'm also looking forward to the one on your "To-do" list, based off of Draken's evolutionist. It's my favorite class evar, I make no secret about it. And, of course, it's blood gift. :smalltongue:

Welknair
2011-09-16, 11:37 PM
looking forward to seeing the blood chameleon line (is that the one based off of bloodking?), and the other gifts.
What will the blood chameleon blood gift be like? I'm interested, because, Yo, dawg.

Yes, Blood Chameleon is indeed the Line for Blood King. His Gift is the aptly named Chameleon Gift. Under normal circumstances you do not gain the Gift of Attuned Bloodlines. Chameleon Gift allows you to, but they can only be treated up to a level equal to the number of points you have in Blood Chameleon. So if you're surrounded by things to Attune to, it's a worthwhile investment. Not to mention Blood Chameleon only allows you to put points in things that you touch, and does not usually give Gifts. It's Gift allows you to use the Gift of Bloodlines that you use it to gain. Yeah, I think I confused myself there. It'll make more sense in the official write-up.

Yo dawg.


And I do still intend to make the Evolutionist bloodline.

I'm about halfway through with four (Or is it five?) bloodlines at once. Destined Protector, Tower of Knowledge and... It's too late for me to remember the others and I'm too tired to go dig up my notebook with them.

Basically now that I have this baby (Blood King), I'm getting all sorts of inspiration as I try to come up with Bloodlines to fill gaps in the character.

Amechra
2011-09-17, 08:38 AM
Hey, I'll come up with some bloodlines if you're willing to split up the work.

It would make things easier on you, at least...

Just give me a list of bloodlines to do from your to do list, and I'll do 'em.

I already have a couple on my to do list, so it won't be that much of an increase.

enderlord99
2011-09-19, 11:16 PM
Why is there no blood gift for PC-kin?

Welknair
2011-09-19, 11:29 PM
Why is there no blood gift for PC-kin?

I haven't even wrote ones for the PC-Kin and DM's Worst Nightmare, as they were intended as joke Bloodlines. Though they are workable, given the right circumstances... I'll see what I can come up with.

And I am still here, and still waiting until I have enough time to post the rest of the darn Gifts.

enderlord99
2011-09-20, 09:40 AM
I haven't even wrote ones for the PC-Kin and DM's Worst Nightmare, as they were intended as joke Bloodlines. Though they are workable, given the right circumstances... I'll see what I can come up with.

By my interpretation of "joke bloodline", you never intended for either of them to be used. That makes sense for DM's Worst Nightmare, but PC-kin is actually excellent for a campaign with no fourth wall.

Merchant
2011-09-21, 12:28 AM
Though the DM's nightmare was considered it a joke, yesterday I was checking out monster competitions and came across this:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5991609&postcount=5

I'm not too sure if it was a joke or not but it seemed pretty cool to me. I'm not sure if you would have to rework it or do another bloodline entirely but maybe that monster could give you some "gift" ideas at least.

Question: In coming across this monster I realized that you do not have a psionic bloodline. Did you explain the reason or it is self explanatory to everyone except me?

Suggestion attempt: Have you thought about adding more than one gift per bloodline? If you decide to. If you choose Favored Line (X) then would the bonus BP go into both or again would you have to choose?

Suggestion: Did I miss a reason why there isn't a feat that would help you gain more Blood Points? Would it be too much if there was one?

Welknair
2011-09-21, 08:16 AM
Question: In coming across this monster I realized that you do not have a psionic bloodline. Did you explain the reason or it is self explanatory to everyone except me?

Suggestion attempt: Have you thought about adding more than one gift per bloodline? If you decide to. If you choose Favored Line (X) then would the bonus BP go into both or again would you have to choose?

Suggestion: Did I miss a reason why there isn't a feat that would help you gain more Blood Points? Would it be too much if there was one?

Answer: I do not currently have a Psionic Bloodline, unless you count the Psion Lineage for Hero-Born, which most do not. Nor do I have a Bloodline for Binding yet. They're still being made, and the Psionics line is going to be one of the more difficult ones as it's power is directly registered by the amount of PP it has.

Response attempt: I have not considered having more than one Gift per bloodline. They're meant to be significant class features, and as such doubling them would be a significant power increase. That is, unless you had to choose between them, which I think you would. I currently have 19 or 20 bloodlines and I have Gifts written for all of them save for the PC-Kin and DM's Worst Nightmare. Creating a second for each without having any overlap would take some time.

Response: Favored Line effectively gives you two points. But for something that strictly increased your BP.. It would probably be similar to Psionics' Wild Talent, giving 2 your first time, then 3, then 4 and so on for each iterative one. However, as with Psionics, this is not a significant quantity of power, and I do not think it should be. And these feats wouldn't really age well, as at later levels 2 or 3 BP is very little comparatively, whereas Favored Line still serves as a +2 increase to CLs and +1 increase to Save DCs, even once it's raw bonus has become obsolete.

Welknair
2011-10-01, 04:25 PM
Finished typing up the rest of the Blood Gifts save for those for the DM's Worst Nightmare and the PC-Kin. No clue what I'm going to do for those.

GunbladeKnight
2011-10-01, 04:50 PM
DM's Worst Nightmare: The player may demand extra gp equal to 1000 * 1/4 of the points they have allocated to this bloodline.

flabort
2011-10-01, 09:29 PM
Those are sweeeeeeeet. Here's a suggestion for PC-Kin (poorly worded, but you get the drift):

PC-Kin - Super-Blood: May apply a number of additional blood points to other lines. He gets an additional X points in every line he has points in, where X is the number of points he has put into PC-Kin. Do not count the points added to PC-Kin when determining how many points PC-Kin adds to the lines. These points are calculated after all other blood points have been assigned, and may go above and beyond the normal maximum.

Welknair
2011-10-01, 09:50 PM
PC-Kin - Super-Blood: May apply a number of additional blood points to other lines. He gets an additional X points in every line he has points in, where X is the number of points he has put into PC-Kin. Do not count the points added to PC-Kin when determining how many points PC-Kin adds to the lines. These points are calculated after all other blood points have been assigned, and may go above and beyond the normal maximum.

Uhh... That means-- But--

Put at least one point in each bloodline you have, and make sure to max PC-Kin. They are now all at least one beyond their normal max, and you likely still have enough points to double-max several of them. That is ludicrously powerful.

Though with some tweaks, the idea is still workable. May go with something a bit more joke-y however.

Pyromancer999
2011-10-02, 03:27 AM
Uhh... That means-- But--

Put at least one point in each bloodline you have, and make sure to max PC-Kin. They are now all at least one beyond their normal max, and you likely still have enough points to double-max several of them. That is ludicrously powerful.

Though with some tweaks, the idea is still workable. May go with something a bit more joke-y however.

How about you just have the effect last for a number of rounds per day equal to the number of points you have invested in the bloodline? Seems fine then.

Merchant
2011-10-08, 02:51 AM
I was wondering how the bloodlines are going Welknair. Life must be very busy.

Anways has anyone considered making a prc that focuses on mixing bloodlines? I was just thinking it could be a way to improve on the finished 'gifts' that have already being created ex: 1/4 of BP becomes 1/2 BP invested.

Of if that is too much creating new gifts on the bloodlines that have been mixed. I unfortunately haven't come up with any new ones but maybe some more experienced "brewers" will have better luck.
____

Back after some thinking.

I was thinking about all those dragon bloodlines. What if you mix the bloodlines to create something closer to the very first dragon. I was thinking of combining breath weapons, increased flying speed and manueverability (depending on how many additional dragon lines are mixed in after the first.)

One idea that I really like is the theme of Vitality. If you get a certain number of dragon lines mixed into one, your HD become d12's and maxed. I was also thinking of increasing the HD die every four Drag.Lines mixed in. Or maybe add an additional HD for each 3 Drag.Lines.

Just picturing something that is the reincarnation of Dragon Prime. I think this would be a little more interesting than the DragonFire Adept. (I have to admit I am biased and love this class)
___

Out of curiousity. If you mix the dragon bloodlines does the NA gift stack? I think it would be cool if it did. Six dragon lines multiplied by 1/4 BP equals max NA 30 at lvl 20.

EdroGrimshell
2011-11-20, 09:28 PM
Does this have an epic progression?