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martianmister
2011-09-01, 06:36 PM
Soon found about the rifts in his diplomatic mission to Elven Lands. But, there is a rift in his homeland... :smallconfused:

What should we expect from this? A crazy coincidence, or is there something wrong with this story? :smallamused:

OrzhvoPatriarch
2011-09-01, 06:41 PM
Soon found about the rifts in his diplomatic mission to Elven Lands. But, there is a rift in his homeland... :smallconfused:

What should we expect from this? A crazy coincidence, or is there something wrong with this story? :smallamused:

Maybe the rift in his land, being the smallest, was more stable and thus less noticeable.

MoonCat
2011-09-01, 06:43 PM
A tiny rift (I know what the Giant said recently, but that doesn't change the description of the size.), Hinjo said the rift was small enough to be sealed by a sapphire, probably can't be seen up in the sky that far.

Toofey
2011-09-01, 10:54 PM
He built Azure city around the rift, there's no reason to think that was his homeland before he settled the city there.

The Giant
2011-09-01, 10:59 PM
What should we expect from this?

Nothing.

(And Azure City existed for a long time before Soon. Only the castle was built by him.)

factotum
2011-09-02, 01:41 AM
A tiny rift (I know what the Giant said recently, but that doesn't change the description of the size.), Hinjo said the rift was small enough to be sealed by a sapphire, probably can't be seen up in the sky that far.

This. Unless you were actively looking for the rifts, there's no reason why you'd notice one that's maybe an inch across and a hundred feet up in the air.

Phishfood
2011-09-02, 01:54 AM
This. Unless you were actively looking for the rifts, there's no reason why you'd notice one that's maybe an inch across and a hundred feet up in the air.

Exactly. Hell, I work with a bunch of people that can't spot a yellow a4 piece of paper 3 feet from their face.

Had this convo in a few contexts - often with splinter cell or deus ex. People do NOT look up. Not even a few feet. People look where they are going.

Porthos
2011-09-02, 02:29 AM
A tiny rift (I know what the Giant said recently, but that doesn't change the description of the size.), Hinjo said the rift was small enough to be sealed by a sapphire, probably can't be seen up in the sky that far.

I actually didn't know what the Giant had said about the Gate recently. :smallsmile: So I had a looksee, and I'm glad I did.

Here is a link to the post for people who are curious to know more about just what was going on with Soon's Gate and the Sapphire. :smallsmile:

ETA: In that post, he also mentioned that the Gate itself is "about the size of a raisin". And since the Gate itself is larger than the Rift, that must mean that the Rift itself was smaller than a raisin.

Now I ask you, how many people would actually notice a extremely small tear in the sky of that size? Even if they were directly looking right at it?

Not many, I'd gather. And even then I'd suspect that most people would dismiss it as a trick of the light or something Not Exactly Earth Shattering.

martianmister
2011-09-02, 07:15 AM
Guys, the point is, man who found about the rifts is, by coincidence, living in a city with a rift. And there is only five of them in the whole world.


Nothing.

(And Azure City existed for a long time before Soon. Only the castle was built by him.)

So, coincidence then?

Palthera
2011-09-02, 09:17 AM
Sometimes, things really can be just a coincidence.

teratorn
2011-09-02, 09:20 AM
Guys, the point is, man who found about the rifts is, by coincidence, living in a city with a rift. And there is only five of them in the whole world.

So, coincidence then?

Soon was destined to find the rifts. Born close to one he was was meant to wander near the others. No coincidence, it was part of a great plan, we're talking about a major quest here.

martianmister
2011-09-02, 10:03 AM
Soon was destined to find the rifts. Born close to one he was was meant to wander near the others. No coincidence, it was part of a great plan, we're talking about a major quest here.

In my eyes, all coincidences are part of a really big plan...


Sometimes, things really can be just a coincidence.

Yeah, that's why I add this possibility in my original post.

MoonCat
2011-09-02, 10:06 AM
In my eyes, all coincidences are part of a really big plan...

If they're a coincidence to the one doing the planning, then they're a coincidence. I always hate that phrase anyway. It only works if you specifically limit yourself to just your own point of view, which is useless in fiction.

Dr.Epic
2011-09-02, 10:10 AM
Maybe the rift in his land, being the smallest, was more stable and thus less noticeable.

It was also located high in the sky.

martianmister
2011-09-02, 10:18 AM
If they're a coincidence to the one doing the planning, then they're a coincidence. I always hate that phrase anyway. It only works if you specifically limit yourself to just your own point of view, which is useless in fiction.

In the fiction, all coincidences are part of a writer's really big plan... :smallyuk:

MoonCat
2011-09-02, 10:20 AM
In the fiction, all coincidences are part of a writer's really big plan... :smallyuk:

Not if it's a coincidence to the author as well. And what's the :smallyuk: for?

martianmister
2011-09-02, 10:25 AM
Not if it's a coincidence to the author as well.

Nothing is a coincidence to the creator. S/He is, literally, god of his/her created work.

MoonCat
2011-09-02, 10:31 AM
Nothing is a coincidence to the creator. S/He is, literally, god of his/her created work.

Yes, there is. Say he creates a character with ponytail on the Western Continent. It's pure coincidence, she is not related to Haley. Just because he controls everything doesn't mean he doesn't sometimes create coincidences, which is what I'm talking about.

martianmister
2011-09-02, 10:51 AM
Yes, there is. Say he creates a character with ponytail on the Western Continent. It's pure coincidence, she is not related to Haley. Just because he controls everything doesn't mean he doesn't sometimes create coincidences, which is what I'm talking about.

Then why did you argue with my original post? Terratorn is the one who talking about "no coincidences" in Rich's story.

MoonCat
2011-09-02, 10:53 AM
Then why did you argue with my original post? Terratorn is the one who talking about "no coincidences" in Rich's story.

But all coincidences aren't part of a plan. They're a coincidence.

martianmister
2011-09-02, 10:59 AM
But all coincidences aren't part of a plan. They're a coincidence.

It's varies from person to person. There is no absolute truth about these philosophical arguements.

Bubble
2011-09-02, 11:34 AM
My bet is that Rich just thought, "it would make for a lot of interesting plot points to have one of the gates be embedded in the throne of a castle in a city."

Storytelling is weird. Entertaining the reader trumps most other considerations be they bending the rules of the Game or reality.

leakingpen
2011-09-02, 11:44 AM
Exactly. Hell, I work with a bunch of people that can't spot a yellow a4 piece of paper 3 feet from their face.

Had this convo in a few contexts - often with splinter cell or deus ex. People do NOT look up. Not even a few feet. People look where they are going.

They also don't look down. Which is why ground based booby traps, and things that fall from above are the most common ways to suprise people in bad ways. I was lucky, my father was a paranoid ex Marine. I learned by the age of 6 to ALWAYS look up and down while walking. Or else. People still comment on it, actually, because I notice odd things in the ceiling and on the floor.

The Pilgrim
2011-09-02, 12:13 PM
So, coincidence then?

I suppose it's not as much coincidence, as plot necessity.

The only way in which Azure City could become a battleground in the OOTS-Team Evil struggle, was either having a Rift over it, or having been built around one. Since it's stablished that Azure City was an ancient bastion of Good, the only option was to have a rift already hovering over it.

Of course, Soon could have come from any other city in the world, and only settle in Azure City after assuming the defense of it's Rift. However, a) Soon wouldn't have managed to link the Shappire Guard with the Political Power of the City that fast being a foreigner, neither achieve enough political pull to push Azure City into a genocidal crusade agains all goblinoids if he had lacked already some degree of relation with the politics of the City. And b) Soon being a foreigner in Azure City would mean that either Soon or Azure City would have had to scrap the jap-influenced style. Things wouldn't have blend so well that way.

Dr.Epic
2011-09-02, 12:17 PM
My bet is that Rich just thought, "it would make for a lot of interesting plot points to have one of the gates be embedded in the throne of a castle in a city."

But there was already a Gate in a throne room.

ThePhantasm
2011-09-02, 12:48 PM
It's varies from person to person. There is no absolute truth about these philosophical arguements.

If it varies from person to person, why did you ask if it was a coincidence in the first place? You asked the question, and then people responded, and your response is "well there is no absolute truth about this anyways?" :smallconfused:

teratorn
2011-09-02, 12:52 PM
Terratorn is the one who talking about "no coincidences" in Rich's story.

I didn't say that. In this particular case it's central to the plot and could have been planned. Mooncat's point illustrates stuff that are simple random coincidences in the story and with no serious meaning. Then we have «coincidences» with a purpose. We have many examples of «coincidences» in the story that are not random, they are important to quicken the pace of the story, favor the economy of the plot, and increase dramatic tension. What was the chance that Roy would meet Ian in the jail? Or that Elan's father is the one imprisoning Haley's father?

The classic example is in Oedipus Rex. The guy coming to inform about his «parents» death was the one who found him when he was abandoned by his real parents.

martianmister
2011-09-02, 01:04 PM
If it varies from person to person, why did you ask if it was a coincidence in the first place? You asked the question, and then people responded, and your response is "well there is no absolute truth about this anyways?" :smallconfused:

Giant already answered my original question. We are talking about something very different.


The classic example is in Oedipus Rex. The guy coming to inform about his «parents» death was the one who found him when he was abandoned by his real parents.

I guess, if we are talking about fiction, there is two different kind of coincidences: real coincidences (random), and in-story coincidences (part of the god/destiny/author's big plan).

MoonCat
2011-09-02, 01:09 PM
I guess, if we are talking about fiction, there is two different kind of coincidences: real coincidences (random), and in-story coincidences (part of the god/destiny/author's big plan).

<brain explodes>

THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS WHOLE TIME!!!!!

ThePhantasm
2011-09-02, 01:12 PM
Giant already answered my original question. We are talking about something very different.

Do you mind explicating the difference? Your question in the OP and the dichotomy you created between coincidence / "something wrong with this story" didn't make sense to me.

martianmister
2011-09-02, 02:00 PM
Do you mind explicating the difference? Your question in the OP and the dichotomy you created between coincidence / "something wrong with this story" didn't make sense to me.

I don't understands you. My question was pretty simple:

My question: "Is it a crazy coincidence, or not?"
Giant: "It's a coincidence."

There is nothing else to discuss about this.


THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS WHOLE TIME!!!!!

A winner is you? And what's with shouting and bossy tone? :smallconfused:

teratorn
2011-09-02, 02:44 PM
A winner is you? And what's with shouting and bossy tone? :smallconfused:

We like her that way. :smallcool: This topic had been discussed before, but didn't pick that much interest since it's a bit of a moot point unless the Giant decides to makes a story about the order of the scribble. As it is we have «word of god» that it's not important to the present story.

ThePhantasm
2011-09-02, 03:14 PM
I don't understands you. My question was pretty simple:

My question: "Is it a crazy coincidence, or not?"
Giant: "It's a coincidence."

There is nothing else to discuss about this.

That doesn't answer my question. Clearly you and MoonCat are discussing the definition of coincidence. Yet you said this is "very different" from what you were discussing with the Giant. How is it different?

Also, what did you mean by your original question, and why the dichotomy between "coincidence" and "something wrong being with the story"? I'm asking you to define the terms of the original question. I'm trying to figure out why you asked the question. Clearly there is a choice there between "coincidence" and "something being wrong with the story" in your OP. What was the connection / disconnection in your mind relating those two options? Why those particular choices?

Also, the Giant didn't say "it is a coincidence." He said not to expect anything from it. (Which is where this definition of coincidence discussion originated, if I'm not mistaken.)

MoonCat
2011-09-02, 04:27 PM
A winner is you? And what's with shouting and bossy tone? :smallconfused:

Bossy tone? What?

ION: I'm backing out, since I don't really care enough about this any more. Have fun guys. At least we got an answer from the Giant!

martianmister
2011-09-03, 01:04 PM
Also, what did you mean by your original question, and why the dichotomy between "coincidence" and "something wrong being with the story"? I'm asking you to define the terms of the original question. I'm trying to figure out why you asked the question. Clearly there is a choice there between "coincidence" and "something being wrong with the story" in your OP. What was the connection / disconnection in your mind relating those two options? Why those particular choices?

It (a rift-finder's coming from a city with a rift) must be a coincidence, or something wrong with Soon's/Shojo's story.


Also, the Giant didn't say "it is a coincidence." He said not to expect anything from it. (Which is where this definition of coincidence discussion originated, if I'm not mistaken.)

Again, it must be a coincidence, or something wrong with Soon's/Shojo's story. According to the Giant, there is nothing to expect from this. So, Shojo's narrative about Soon's finding the rifts is true.

ThePhantasm
2011-09-04, 02:16 PM
It (a rift-finder's coming from a city with a rift) must be a coincidence, or something wrong with Soon's/Shojo's story.

That makes a lot more sense, because I thought you were saying one option was that something was wrong with the strip itself, i.e. Rich's story. I thought that was a really odd choice there between coincidence / strip critique, and the fact that you and MoonCat subsequently discussed authorial intent and coincidences solidified my assumption that you must have intended this. But looks like I misinterpreted.