rockdeworld
2011-09-03, 09:45 PM
The Problem
I've long had a chip on my shoulder about the skill system, sometimes relating to the massive number of debates that spring up around it, sometimes not. My first experience with D&D I made a ranger, saw the "Heal" skill, and thought "AWESOME! I can heal people back to full health if I put ranks in this skill." This was followed a little later by "I sure wish I had more skill points - I want to be good at knowing which direction I'm going AND be knowledgeable about nature, but I can't do both AND be a good spotter/listener."
The latter of those two thoughts followed me in one form or another with every character I made after that, except for a human rogue with 18 intelligence (and then I still had to cut a skill I wanted).
My problem with the skill system is this: there are too many skills, and they don't do enough.
The Solution
I propose a new skill list that makes sense from a game mechanics perspective, rather than a real world perspective. For example: sure Listening and Looking are completely different activities, even using completely different organs and presumably different parts of the brain. But in-game, needing to invest ranks in both Spot and Listen if you want to have a good chance at finding someone is stupid for 2 reasons. First: it cuts down on the number of ranks you can put in anything else, and no matter what class you have, skill ranks are tight. Second, Spot has way more uses than listen does (seeing something, reading lips and piercing disguises vs hearing something) and therefore you should always allocate ranks to Spot before Listen. Now I grant you that some people are better listeners than spotters, and vice-versa, but in an actual game forcing players to split ranks between them only detracts from the overall playing experience by making players into economists rather than participants in a fantasy story. That's why I suggest the following change:
The New Skill List:
(Sorted by stat)
Maneuver (Str)
Disable Device (Dex)
Escape Artist (Dex)
Tumble (Dex)
Sleight Of Hand (Dex)
Sneak (Dex)
Concentration (Con)
Knowledge (Int)
Search (Int)
Spellcraft (Int)
Perception (Wis)
Sense Motive (Wis)
Bluff (Cha)
Diplomacy (Cha)
Gather Information (Cha)
Intimidate (Cha)
Use Magic Device (Cha)
Profession
Speak Language
The Logic
The basic premise behind this skill list is that adventurers are good at what they do, and can therefore allocate full stat points to each skill they use (the skill DC system certainly assumes they do), rather than put a few points here and there so that they're half-way decent at a larger number of skills. With that in mind, each skill on the old list has been subsumed into one or fewer skills on the new list. The new skill is essentially a gluing together of each of the old skills. For example, a Perception check is rolled anytime you would roll a Spot check or a Listen check. And now for the logic:
Things PC's dont do:
Read as: Old Skill -> New Skill
Climb/Jump/Swim -> Maneuver (Str). These 3 skills are made obsolete by spells very quickly (spider climb sor2, levitate sor2 and water breathing sor3, respectively). Even if they were combined, Fighters still shouldn't take them because Tumble is a better investment even as a cross-class skill. But since we like the idea of being good at them, they're combined into one skill that encompasses all three.
Balance -> Tumble (Dex). Also note that you need balance solely for charging across terrain that the DM probably forgets exists half the time (if they're anything like me). Otherwise it's outclassed by Fly.
Open Lock -> Disable Device (Dex), explanation from Frank & K's Dungeonomicon:
Why no Open Lock skills? Open Lock is a legacy skill that makes no sense. In previous editions of D&D, a Thief had an "Open Locks" skill and a "Find/Remove Traps" skill. In 3rd edition. Find/Remove Traps got split into Search and Disable Device. Disable Device is actually capable of bypassing any device or spell-based impediment, not just Traps these days. Heck, it even has bypassing a Lock as an example task! There's a reason that other D20 games have dropped Open Locks altogether, and we strongly support that decision. In that spirit, we've dropped the Open Lock skill from all classes in the Dungeonomicon, and suggest that you allow players to use their Dexterity Modifier in place of their Intelligence Modifier for Disable Device if they want to.
Hide/Move Silently -> Sneak (Dex). It doesn't make sense for these to be separate. Characters who pick one pick both, unless they don't have enough skill points, in which case they pick Hide if they don't have access to magic, and Move Silently if they do (short of Superior Invisibility). They could be eliminated altogether due to Invisibility, and replaced with a level check for rogues, but I'm not willing to go that far just yet.
Ride -> Everyone can ride. Characters with Mounted Combat can fight while riding, even better than people who aren't mounted. New Mounted Combat: +3/+6/+9/+12 AC while riding (levels 1/6/11/16), essentially duplicating the feat (10.5+ranks+ability mod AC, which is still lower than straight armor at lower levels, and AC doesn't matter that much at higher levels)
Use Rope -> Nothing. This skill doesn't even make sense! In real life, the escapability of bonds are more dependant on the bonds themselves than people's proficiency with them. Handcuffs (and leg manacles) are better than ropes, and straightjackets are more restrictive than handcuffs. We know this. And spells that also prevent people from moving include: Sleep (Sor1), Web (Sor2), Ray of Exhaustion (Sor3), Charm Monster (Sor4), Baleful Polymorph (Sor5 and after). And we use ropes for climbing about as much as we use the climb skill - some before level 5 and not after.
Appraise -> Profession (appraisal).
Craft -> Profession (crafter). The problem is you have to pick one thing to craft, and that's it. And it can't be magical. So when tanglefoot bags stop being useful, so does crafting.
Decipher Script -> Comprehend Languages (the Sor1 spell)
Forgery -> Profession (forgery)
Listen/Spot -> Perception (Wis). See Hide/Move Silently, except these get outclassed by Divination spells, not Illusion.
Perform -> Level check for bards, since they're the only ones who need it anyways, and they don't need to be penalized a skill point as a class ability.
Heal -> Cure Minor Wounds (the Cleric 0 spell). Profession (healer) if you really want someone around to cure diseases/stop poison.
Survival -> Search (Int). We use the phrases "search for civilization," "search for food and water," "search for hazards," and "search for footprints" because we're searching. Endurance takes care of fortitude saves against weather, and if anyone has ever used survival to predict the weather with relevant outcome in a game, please tell me that story.
Profession -> Profession, but with 1 rank each, like Speak Language, because if you wanted to be a farmer, you'd play Farmville on Facebook, not D&D.
Handle Animal -> Profession (Animal Handler). See the note about Farmville under Profession.
Disguise -> Profession (Disguiser). The actual putting on of a disguise is something anyone can do. If you need to look like a guard, you get the guard's armor and wear it. If you need to look like the Mayor in order to get into his house and steal the plot device in his bedroom, you cast Disguise Self (or take his clothes). Once disguised, you have to fool others into believing something that isn't true (i.e. bluff them) in order to not "come to the attention of people who are suspicious."
Closing
So we end up with Dex and Cha being the only stats that really have skills in them, which makes sense because rogues and bards are the only classes that are really skill intensive and they use exactly those stats, respectively. We've also gone from 36 skills to 17(ish), less than half, and that means skill points are worth a lot more now, but a global "cut skill points in half" won't work because of which skills I've combined. So with this skill list, I'd assign the following skill points per class:
Barbarian: 2 + Int
Bard: 4 + Int
Cleric: 2 + Int
Druid: 2 + Int
Fighter: 2 + Int
Monk: 4 + Int
Paladin: 2 + Int
Ranger: 4 + Int
Rogue: 6 + Int
Sorcerers: 2 + Int
Wizards: 2 + Int
A few notes:
1. I have definitely been influenced by Frank & K, because I love their spirit for getting the rules out of the way of the game. To paraphrase Frank, D&D just doesn't have a fine enough grain to keep track of these things.
2. I'm not sure what the difference between Spellcraft and Knowledge (Arcana/Religion/Nature) is, but I'm not touching that because the classes who care have enough skill points not to (except clerics, they get the short end of the stick).
3. Sense Motive could arguable go under Perception too, since it makes sense, but I've never felt shorted by putting ranks into Sense Motive (except at level 1), so I didn't change it.
With all that said, Please Examine And Critique Honestly! Thank you for reading!
I've long had a chip on my shoulder about the skill system, sometimes relating to the massive number of debates that spring up around it, sometimes not. My first experience with D&D I made a ranger, saw the "Heal" skill, and thought "AWESOME! I can heal people back to full health if I put ranks in this skill." This was followed a little later by "I sure wish I had more skill points - I want to be good at knowing which direction I'm going AND be knowledgeable about nature, but I can't do both AND be a good spotter/listener."
The latter of those two thoughts followed me in one form or another with every character I made after that, except for a human rogue with 18 intelligence (and then I still had to cut a skill I wanted).
My problem with the skill system is this: there are too many skills, and they don't do enough.
The Solution
I propose a new skill list that makes sense from a game mechanics perspective, rather than a real world perspective. For example: sure Listening and Looking are completely different activities, even using completely different organs and presumably different parts of the brain. But in-game, needing to invest ranks in both Spot and Listen if you want to have a good chance at finding someone is stupid for 2 reasons. First: it cuts down on the number of ranks you can put in anything else, and no matter what class you have, skill ranks are tight. Second, Spot has way more uses than listen does (seeing something, reading lips and piercing disguises vs hearing something) and therefore you should always allocate ranks to Spot before Listen. Now I grant you that some people are better listeners than spotters, and vice-versa, but in an actual game forcing players to split ranks between them only detracts from the overall playing experience by making players into economists rather than participants in a fantasy story. That's why I suggest the following change:
The New Skill List:
(Sorted by stat)
Maneuver (Str)
Disable Device (Dex)
Escape Artist (Dex)
Tumble (Dex)
Sleight Of Hand (Dex)
Sneak (Dex)
Concentration (Con)
Knowledge (Int)
Search (Int)
Spellcraft (Int)
Perception (Wis)
Sense Motive (Wis)
Bluff (Cha)
Diplomacy (Cha)
Gather Information (Cha)
Intimidate (Cha)
Use Magic Device (Cha)
Profession
Speak Language
The Logic
The basic premise behind this skill list is that adventurers are good at what they do, and can therefore allocate full stat points to each skill they use (the skill DC system certainly assumes they do), rather than put a few points here and there so that they're half-way decent at a larger number of skills. With that in mind, each skill on the old list has been subsumed into one or fewer skills on the new list. The new skill is essentially a gluing together of each of the old skills. For example, a Perception check is rolled anytime you would roll a Spot check or a Listen check. And now for the logic:
Things PC's dont do:
Read as: Old Skill -> New Skill
Climb/Jump/Swim -> Maneuver (Str). These 3 skills are made obsolete by spells very quickly (spider climb sor2, levitate sor2 and water breathing sor3, respectively). Even if they were combined, Fighters still shouldn't take them because Tumble is a better investment even as a cross-class skill. But since we like the idea of being good at them, they're combined into one skill that encompasses all three.
Balance -> Tumble (Dex). Also note that you need balance solely for charging across terrain that the DM probably forgets exists half the time (if they're anything like me). Otherwise it's outclassed by Fly.
Open Lock -> Disable Device (Dex), explanation from Frank & K's Dungeonomicon:
Why no Open Lock skills? Open Lock is a legacy skill that makes no sense. In previous editions of D&D, a Thief had an "Open Locks" skill and a "Find/Remove Traps" skill. In 3rd edition. Find/Remove Traps got split into Search and Disable Device. Disable Device is actually capable of bypassing any device or spell-based impediment, not just Traps these days. Heck, it even has bypassing a Lock as an example task! There's a reason that other D20 games have dropped Open Locks altogether, and we strongly support that decision. In that spirit, we've dropped the Open Lock skill from all classes in the Dungeonomicon, and suggest that you allow players to use their Dexterity Modifier in place of their Intelligence Modifier for Disable Device if they want to.
Hide/Move Silently -> Sneak (Dex). It doesn't make sense for these to be separate. Characters who pick one pick both, unless they don't have enough skill points, in which case they pick Hide if they don't have access to magic, and Move Silently if they do (short of Superior Invisibility). They could be eliminated altogether due to Invisibility, and replaced with a level check for rogues, but I'm not willing to go that far just yet.
Ride -> Everyone can ride. Characters with Mounted Combat can fight while riding, even better than people who aren't mounted. New Mounted Combat: +3/+6/+9/+12 AC while riding (levels 1/6/11/16), essentially duplicating the feat (10.5+ranks+ability mod AC, which is still lower than straight armor at lower levels, and AC doesn't matter that much at higher levels)
Use Rope -> Nothing. This skill doesn't even make sense! In real life, the escapability of bonds are more dependant on the bonds themselves than people's proficiency with them. Handcuffs (and leg manacles) are better than ropes, and straightjackets are more restrictive than handcuffs. We know this. And spells that also prevent people from moving include: Sleep (Sor1), Web (Sor2), Ray of Exhaustion (Sor3), Charm Monster (Sor4), Baleful Polymorph (Sor5 and after). And we use ropes for climbing about as much as we use the climb skill - some before level 5 and not after.
Appraise -> Profession (appraisal).
Craft -> Profession (crafter). The problem is you have to pick one thing to craft, and that's it. And it can't be magical. So when tanglefoot bags stop being useful, so does crafting.
Decipher Script -> Comprehend Languages (the Sor1 spell)
Forgery -> Profession (forgery)
Listen/Spot -> Perception (Wis). See Hide/Move Silently, except these get outclassed by Divination spells, not Illusion.
Perform -> Level check for bards, since they're the only ones who need it anyways, and they don't need to be penalized a skill point as a class ability.
Heal -> Cure Minor Wounds (the Cleric 0 spell). Profession (healer) if you really want someone around to cure diseases/stop poison.
Survival -> Search (Int). We use the phrases "search for civilization," "search for food and water," "search for hazards," and "search for footprints" because we're searching. Endurance takes care of fortitude saves against weather, and if anyone has ever used survival to predict the weather with relevant outcome in a game, please tell me that story.
Profession -> Profession, but with 1 rank each, like Speak Language, because if you wanted to be a farmer, you'd play Farmville on Facebook, not D&D.
Handle Animal -> Profession (Animal Handler). See the note about Farmville under Profession.
Disguise -> Profession (Disguiser). The actual putting on of a disguise is something anyone can do. If you need to look like a guard, you get the guard's armor and wear it. If you need to look like the Mayor in order to get into his house and steal the plot device in his bedroom, you cast Disguise Self (or take his clothes). Once disguised, you have to fool others into believing something that isn't true (i.e. bluff them) in order to not "come to the attention of people who are suspicious."
Closing
So we end up with Dex and Cha being the only stats that really have skills in them, which makes sense because rogues and bards are the only classes that are really skill intensive and they use exactly those stats, respectively. We've also gone from 36 skills to 17(ish), less than half, and that means skill points are worth a lot more now, but a global "cut skill points in half" won't work because of which skills I've combined. So with this skill list, I'd assign the following skill points per class:
Barbarian: 2 + Int
Bard: 4 + Int
Cleric: 2 + Int
Druid: 2 + Int
Fighter: 2 + Int
Monk: 4 + Int
Paladin: 2 + Int
Ranger: 4 + Int
Rogue: 6 + Int
Sorcerers: 2 + Int
Wizards: 2 + Int
A few notes:
1. I have definitely been influenced by Frank & K, because I love their spirit for getting the rules out of the way of the game. To paraphrase Frank, D&D just doesn't have a fine enough grain to keep track of these things.
2. I'm not sure what the difference between Spellcraft and Knowledge (Arcana/Religion/Nature) is, but I'm not touching that because the classes who care have enough skill points not to (except clerics, they get the short end of the stick).
3. Sense Motive could arguable go under Perception too, since it makes sense, but I've never felt shorted by putting ranks into Sense Motive (except at level 1), so I didn't change it.
With all that said, Please Examine And Critique Honestly! Thank you for reading!