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Tzi
2011-09-11, 04:50 PM
So, as I adventure with the fine art of DM'ing I have found the thrill of crafting monsters, dungeons and quests. One such quest is coming to its end and I am trying to create the big bad boss, the evil behind all the stuff the players have been fighting. The party consists of a Sorcerer, Inquisitor, Fighter, Ranger and a Rogue all level 3.

I just need more expert opinions, thoughts, constructive criticism, ect... as I am fairly new and inexperienced. Ideally I want this to be a CR 6 maybe 7 monster.

EDIT: After much editing and changes this is new statblock for Shabri. Thanks to those who have helped.

Name: The Bat (Shabri the Deceptive)
Medium Outsider(Chaotic, Extraplanar, Evil)
Health: 7d8 + 28 (59 hp)
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares); fly 40 ft. (Good)
Initiative: +7
Armor Class: 21; touch 13; flat-footed 18 (+3 Dex, +8 natural)
Base Attack/Grapple: +7/+12
Attack: Claw +12 melee (1d6+5)
Full Attack: 2 claws +12 melee (1d6+5) and bite +10 melee (1d6+2)
Space: 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Special Abilities:
Spell Like Abilities, Summon, Telepathy
Special Qualities:
Darkvision out to 60 feet, Damage Reduction 5/magic or good, Alternate form, Immunity to electricity and poison, Resistance to acid 10, cold 10, and fire 10.
Saves: Fort +9, Ref +8, Will +8
Abilities: Str 20, Dex 17, Con 18, Int 21, Wis 16, Cha 17
Skills: Bluff +13, Climb +15, Diplomacy +7, Disable Device +15, Disguise +13 (+15 when observed and acting in character), Escape Artist +13, Hide +13, Intimidate +15, Knowledge Arcana +15, Listen +13, Move Silently +13, Search +13, Sense Motive +13, Sleight of Hand +5, Spellcraft +15, Survival +5 (to find or follow tracks only), Use Magic Device +5 (scrolls only) Use Rope +5 (to bind someone only),
Feats: Flyby Attack, Improved Initiative, Multi-Attack
Challenge Rating: 6
Alignment: Chaotic Evil,

=========Combat=========

Spell Like Abilities: At will— 3/day—Suggestion [DC 16], disguise self (adds +10 to Disguise check), Dispel Magic [+7], Ghost Sound [Disbelieve DC 13], Minor Image [Disbelieve DC 15], 1/day—Confusion [Disbelieve DC 10], 1/day—glibness (+30 bonus on Bluff checks made to convince another of the truth of your words). Caster level 7th.

Alternate Form (Su): Shabri the Deceptive has this special quality has the ability to assume one or more specific alternate forms. A true seeing spell or ability reveals the creature’s natural form. A creature using alternate form reverts to its natural form when killed, but separated body parts retain their shape. Shabri the Deceptive can only change its form to those who have made a pact with it.

Summon (Sp): Once per day, Sbabri the Deceptive can attempt to summon 1 Skittering gray with a 50% chance of success. This ability is the equivalent of a 3rd-level spell.

Shabri prefers to use tricks, deception and fear. As a Deceiver of the unwary, this demon prefers to fool others to fight for him and feed him souls and magical energies to empower itself.

In actual combat, Shabri will attempt to charm, disguise or confuse his way out of direct fighting, but if pressed will attack certain fury to keep his existence going.

* Skittering gray is a homebrew monster.

Yitzi
2011-09-11, 06:33 PM
Looks like a very good BBEG. Just three notes:

1. At-will dispel can be quite powerful, particularly at low levels. On the flip side, your party doesn't seem to be too buff-dependent, so that should be ok. Although that brings me to the next point...
2. Your party doesn't seem to have any solid source of PfE (unless the sorcerer happens to know it), which can make Charm far nastier than it otherwise would be. (The fact that most of your party has poor will saves won't help either). If your party's put decent resources into saves and/or wisdom it should be ok (particularly if you keep in mind that a charmed person still does have a lot of independence of action), but if they've skimped there it can easily turn this into more of a threat than you intended. If you want to make it easier, you can lower his CHA (down to 13 if need be; more and it gets iffy whether he can dispel) to lower the DC.
3. Playing a monster of this sort will probably be extremely difficult. Tremendous fun, but not at all easy. Just make sure you know what you're getting into.

Mulletmanalive
2011-09-11, 06:46 PM
So, as I adventure with the fine art of DM'ing I have found the thrill of crafting monsters, dungeons and quests. One such quest is coming to its end and I am trying to create the big bad boss, the evil behind all the stuff the players have been fighting. The party consists of a Sorcerer, Inquisitor, Fighter, Ranger and a Rogue all level 3.

I just need more expert opinions, thoughts, constructive criticism, ect... as I am fairly new and inexperienced. Ideally I want this to be a CR 6 maybe 7 monster.

Ok... Consider this a crash course. I'm not sure where you get most of this from but here goes...


Name: Shabri the Deceiver (The Bat)
Medium Outsider(Evil)
Health: 7d8+35 (66 hp)

Based on the numbers in the stat line, this should read: 7d8 + 28 (59 hp)


Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares); fly 30 ft. (poorly)

That should be "Poor" not "poorly"


Initiative: +2

This doesn't gel with the stats below. Because of this, i'm going to up the Dex of the creature to 16/+3.

Initiative: +3


Armor Class: 20; touch 12; flat-footed 18 (+2 Dex, +8 natural)

This was wrong, as a Dex of 12 is a +1 modifier. With the amended Dex, this reads as:

Armor Class: 21; touch 13; flat-footed 18 (+3 Dex, +8 natural)


Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+11
Attack: Claw +12 melee (1d6+5)

BAB should be +7 and he has a +3 Strength mod as written, so this should be different. However, I'll up the Strength to 20/+5 to match the bonus damage on the claws, leading to:

Base Attack/Grapple: +7/+12
Attack: Claw +12 melee (1d6+5)


Full Attack: 2 claws +12 melee (1d6+5) and bite +7 melee (1d6+2)

Making Corrections leads to:

Full Attack: 2 claws +12 melee (1d6+5) and bite +7 melee (1d6+2)


Space: 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Special Abilities,
Spell Like Abilities, Damage reduction 5/+1 and Good, Alternate form
Special Qualities,
Darkvision out to 60 feet

Several of these are in the wrong category, but that's really just tradition. DR and alternate form are normally Special Qualities.


Saves: Fort +8, Ref +6, Will +6

Outsiders get Good saves in everything, so the base save here is +5, leading to:

Saves: Fort +9, Ref +8, Will +8


Abilities: Str 16, Dex 12, Con 18, Int 21, Wis 16, Cha 16

Amended to:

Abilities: Str 20, Dex 17, Con 18, Int 21, Wis 16, Cha 17

Skills: Climb +15, Knowledge Arcana +12, Disguise +13, Escape Artist +6, Spellcraft +14, Listen +14, Move Silently +14, Bluff +11, Intimidate +6, Search +15, Sense Motive +6

With a whopping 13 skills to max out, this should probably look different... I suggect just grabbing 13 with the 10 ranks you have and then adding the stat modifiers, rather than anything fancy.


Feats: Flyby Attack

You're actually due 3 feats for being 6+HD, so that's something that needs adding to. If you can't come up with anything preferable, Multiattack and [B]Hover are nice and simple


Challenge Rating: 6
Alignment: Chaotic Evil

Combat:
Spell Like Abilities: At will—Charm Person, dispel magic, Disguise Self, Ghost Sound, Minor Image Caster level 6th.

Is there a particular reason that you've given the critter a caster level below it's HD? You should also include save DCs and the like:

Spell Like Abilities: At will—Charm Person [DC 14], Disguise Self [Disbelieve DC 14], Dispel Magic [+7], Ghost Sound [Disbelieve DC 13], Minor Image [Disbelieve DC 14]. Caster level 6th.



Alternate Form (Su): Shabri the Deceiver can assume other forms at will as a standard action. This ability functions as a polymorph spell cast on itself (caster level 12th), except that Shabri the Deceiver does not regain hit points for changing form, and Shabri the Deceiver can assume only one or two forms no larger than Medium. It can only assume the form of the being that summoned it or made communion with it.

Of limited usefulness, but works fine.



Shabri prefers to use tricks, deception and fear. As a Deceiver of the unwary, this demon prefers to fool others to fight for him and feed him souls and magical energies to empower itself.

In actual combat, Shabri will attempt to charm, disguise or confuse his way out of direct fighting, but if pressed will attack certain fury to keep his existence going.

In conclusion: a valiant first attempt, though I'm not sure where you were getting some of your numbers from. Most of this is an exercise in basic counting.

I'm mildly surprised that there is so little deception in a character name The Deceiver [with capitals]. Consider trying to come up with some deception based abilities or look into such funny things as Wanderer's Diplomacy and other things. Either Suggestion or Confusion wouldn't go amiss either.

Hope that helps and wasn't too scathing.

Tzi
2011-09-11, 07:41 PM
Name: The Bat (Shabri the Deceptive)
Medium Outsider(Evil)
Health: 7d8 + 28 (59 hp)
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares); fly 30 ft. (poor)
Initiative: +3
Armor Class: 21; touch 13; flat-footed 18 (+3 Dex, +8 natural)
Base Attack/Grapple: +7/+12
Attack: Claw +12 melee (1d6+5)
Full Attack: 2 claws +12 melee (1d6+5) and bite +7 melee (1d6+2)
Space: 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Special Abilities,
Spell Like Abilities,
Special Qualities,
Darkvision out to 60 feet, Damage reduction 5/+1 and Good, Alternate form
Saves: Fort +9, Ref +8, Will +8
Abilities: Str 20, Dex 17, Con 18, Int 21, Wis 16, Cha 17
Skills: Climb +15, Disable Device +13, Disguise +13, Escape Artist +13, Hide +13 Listen +13, Move Silently +13, Bluff +13, Intimidate +13, Search +13, Sense Motive +13, Knowledge Arcana +15, Spellcraft +15
Feats: Flyby Attack, Hoover, Multi-Attack
Challenge Rating: 6
Alignment: Chaotic Evil,

Spell Like Abilities: At will—Suggestion [DC 12], Disguise Self [Disbelieve DC 14], Dispel Magic [+7], Ghost Sound [Disbelieve DC 13], Minor Image [Disbelieve DC 14], Confusion [Disbelieve DC 10]. Caster level 7th.

Alternate Form (Su): Shabri can assume other forms at will as a standard action. This ability functions as a polymorph spell cast on itself (caster level 12th), except that Shabri does not regain hit points for changing form, and Shabri can assume only one or two forms no larger than Medium. It can only assume the form of the being that summoned it or made communion with it.
=============================

Thank you Mulletmanalive for the tips, I made some corrections here. With the Spells I switched out Charm Person for suggestion and added confusion.


I'm mildly surprised that there is so little deception in a character name The Deceiver [with capitals]. Consider trying to come up with some deception based abilities or look into such funny things as Wanderer's Diplomacy and other things. Either Suggestion or Confusion wouldn't go amiss either.

Actually in the quest, there is a tribe of people convinced the demon is a god, whom they worship only as a "The Bat" since it looks batlike and promised to teach them arcane magic in exchange for their worship and empowering him.

Also changed the true name to "deceptive" since as far as demons go it is on the weaker side.

"Shabri the Deceptive," would be roughly his actual name.


2. Your party doesn't seem to have any solid source of PfE (unless the sorcerer happens to know it), which can make Charm far nastier than it otherwise would be. (The fact that most of your party has poor will saves won't help either). If your party's put decent resources into saves and/or wisdom it should be ok (particularly if you keep in mind that a charmed person still does have a lot of independence of action), but if they've skimped there it can easily turn this into more of a threat than you intended. If you want to make it easier, you can lower his CHA (down to 13 if need be; more and it gets iffy whether he can dispel) to lower the DC.

Took your advice and changed out charm person for suggestion.

Garryl
2011-09-11, 11:06 PM
You should use the standardized Alternate Form (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#alternateForm) ability, rather than basing it off of polymorph self (a spell that no longer exists, by the way).

Damage Reduction should be /magic and good, not /+1 and good (DR/+x is a deprecated mechanic from 3.0 that was eliminated in the change to 3.5, replaced with DR/magic and/or DR/materials like cold iron, silver, and adamantine).

The feat is Hover, not Hoover (you have an extra 'o'). Thanks to Multiattack, the Bite attack's attack bonus should be +10 instead of +7.

Suggestion's save DC should be 16 (3rd level spell and Charisma mod of +3), not 12. It's a significantly more potent spell if used right (even if it's only used for something like "Drop your weapons and sit quietly in the corner"). Confusion should have a DC of 17, not 10, and it isn't a disbelief spell, just a regular save. It's also extremely powerful (can easily tear a group apart, especially since it's at will and thus spammable). Minor Image should have a save DC of 15, not 14 (level 2, not 1).

Not all of those spell-like abilities need to be at will. Several of them, particularly the stronger ones, should be more limited.

jiriku
2011-09-12, 01:38 AM
Yeah. I'd recommend a limit of 3/day on suggestion and 1/day on confusion. Spamming confusion kills parties very quickly.

Also, do you intend for him to be able to use flight to escape from combats? If so, I'd recommend a faster fly speed - you'd be surprised how tenaciously PCs will chase a fleeing villain if they think they've got the upper hand. A normal or dire bat flies at 40 ft with (good) maneuverability. You might consider that instead. Note that if you do select (good) maneuverability, fliers with that maneuverability can hover, so you won't need the Hover feat any more. Improved Toughness, Iron Will or Lightning Reflexes are decent alternatives, since master villains need strong saves and lots of hit points.

Also, bats typically have blindsense. Since this is an outsider with batlike characteristics, not an actual bat, you don't need to include it. But if you feel like doing so, blindsense 30 would be about right (halfway between the 20 ft blindsense of a regular bat and the 40 ft blindsense of a large dire bat). Including blindsense is a decision to be weighed carefully though, since a rogue won't be able to sneak up on a villain with blindsense.

petertaylor
2011-09-12, 01:51 AM
I have recently came to know about this and its good.I hope it will receive a good response from people.

Tzi
2011-09-12, 09:24 AM
Yeah. I'd recommend a limit of 3/day on suggestion and 1/day on confusion. Spamming confusion kills parties very quickly.

Also, do you intend for him to be able to use flight to escape from combats? If so, I'd recommend a faster fly speed - you'd be surprised how tenaciously PCs will chase a fleeing villain if they think they've got the upper hand. A normal or dire bat flies at 40 ft with (good) maneuverability. You might consider that instead. Note that if you do select (good) maneuverability, fliers with that maneuverability can hover, so you won't need the Hover feat any more. Improved Toughness, Iron Will or Lightning Reflexes are decent alternatives, since master villains need strong saves and lots of hit points.


Taken your advice and made those changes, also Hoover was a typo. But with better flying ability it should be replaced with Improved Toughness, which is what I did.

As for flying off to escape, It could theorticallly try though the way the encounter works it will have few venues or modes of escape.



Also, bats typically have blindsense. Since this is an outsider with batlike characteristics, not an actual bat, you don't need to include it. But if you feel like doing so, blindsense 30 would be about right (halfway between the 20 ft blindsense of a regular bat and the 40 ft blindsense of a large dire bat). Including blindsense is a decision to be weighed carefully though, since a rogue won't be able to sneak up on a villain with blindsense.

Blindsense is a possibility, I've considered it as a possibility. It is batlike in that it appears like a bat, and a local tribe worships it as "The bat"



You should use the standardized Alternate Form ability, rather than basing it off of polymorph self (a spell that no longer exists, by the way).

Damage Reduction should be /magic and good, not /+1 and good (DR/+x is a deprecated mechanic from 3.0 that was eliminated in the change to 3.5, replaced with DR/magic and/or DR/materials like cold iron, silver, and adamantine).

The feat is Hover, not Hoover (you have an extra 'o'). Thanks to Multiattack, the Bite attack's attack bonus should be +10 instead of +7.

Suggestion's save DC should be 16 (3rd level spell and Charisma mod of +3), not 12. It's a significantly more potent spell if used right (even if it's only used for something like "Drop your weapons and sit quietly in the corner"). Confusion should have a DC of 17, not 10, and it isn't a disbelief spell, just a regular save. It's also extremely powerful (can easily tear a group apart, especially since it's at will and thus spammable). Minor Image should have a save DC of 15, not 14 (level 2, not 1).

Not all of those spell-like abilities need to be at will. Several of them, particularly the stronger ones, should be more limited.

Done and done, hoover was a typo.


Thanks to both of you for the tips and helo.

Debihuman
2011-09-12, 01:00 PM
I mostly fixed Your Stat block (see below) for standard formatting and completeness.

I had to guess at some of this with environment (as Outsiders generally have a home plane which goes in the stat block) and treasure.

In the text, you mention that this creature is a demon but you have no demon traits listed. It is missing Extraplanar subtype and Chaotic Subtype (see other Demons).



Demon Traits

Most demons possess the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).

Immunity to electricity and poison.
Resistance to acid 10, cold 10, and fire 10.
Summon (Sp): Many demons share the ability to summon others of their kind (the success chance and type of demon summoned are noted in each monster description). Demons are often reluctant to use this power until in obvious peril or extreme circumstances.
Telepathy.

Except where otherwise noted, demons speak Abyssal, Celestial, and Draconic.

3.5 does not have DR/+X, it has DR/magic. The correct DR is DR 5/magic or good. The party should not need magic weapons that are also good aligned to defeat it.

Since it now has Multiattack feat, the -5 penalty for secondary attacks is reduced to -2. Bite is now -10 melee instead of -7 melee.

Outsiders get skill points equal to (8 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die. It has Int 21 giving it +5 modifier. It has 130 skill points. It can have a max rank of 10 in any skill [HD +3] so that would give it 13 skills at max ranks. Then you add the ability modifiers and synergy bonuses (which you seem to have forgotten). I've corrected the skill list.

Disbelief is only allowed if the spell has a saving throw. Disguise self has no such saving throw, but adds a +10 to Disguise check.

A physical description of this monster would be nice. What does he look like in his natural form? What languages does he know? See also Demon traits for appropriate languages.

Without Demon traits, you have over-estimated the CR of this creature. You could easily pit this against a party of 4th-level adventurers as most of the DCs of the spell-like abilities could be overcome at that level. In my new statblock, I've added special abilities to bring it up to the CR 6 that you wanted.

When compared to Bearded Devil (CR 5), Shabri is far weaker. As a BBEG, this is far too weak and has no minions that it can summon, it has no immunities, and it has no resistances and it doesn't cast actual spells. I highly recommend that you add Demon traits.

Furthermore, all 5 of its spell-like abilities are at will. Use of dispel magic should probably only be 3/day as it is a higher level spell. I also recommend adding glibness once per day to this creature's repertoire. I concur with Mulletmanalive that its CL should be 7.

Alternative Form probably needs to be clarified because first you say it can only take one or two Medium forms but then you say it can only take the form of the one who summons or communes with it. Pick one. I'd go with the summoner form because it is the most versatile.

Here is how it looks with the above-mentioned demon traits for a CR 6 rating along with all the changes I previously mentioned. However, it still needs a decent description added including what it looks like in its true form and what languages it speaks, see demon traits for appropriate languages.

Name: Shabri the Deceptive (The Bat)
Medium Outsider (Chaotic, Extraplanar, Evil)
Hit Dice: 7d8 + 28 (59 hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares); fly 30 ft. (Poor)
Armor Class: 21 (+3 Dex, +8 natural); touch 13; flat-footed 18
Base Attack/Grapple: +7/+12
Attack: Claw +12 melee (1d6+5)
Full Attack: 2 claws +12 melee (1d6+5) and bite +10 melee (1d6+2)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Spell-like abilities, summon demon
Abilities Qualities:[/B] Alternate form, darkvision 60 ft., DR 5/magic or good, immune to electricity and poison, resistance to acid 10, cold 10, and fire 10, telepathy 100 ft.
Saves: Fort +9, Ref +8, Will +8
Abilities: Str 20, Dex 17, Con 18, Int 21, Wis 16, Cha 17
Skills: Bluff +13, Climb +15, Diplomacy +7, Disable Device +15, Disguise +13 (+15 when observed and acting in character), Escape Artist +13, Hide +13, Intimidate +15, Knowledge Arcana +15, Listen +13, Move Silently +13, Search +13, Sense Motive +13, Sleight of Hand +5, Spellcraft +15, Survival +5 (to find or follow tracks only), Use Magic Device +5 (scrolls only) Use Rope +5 (to bind someone only),
Feats: Flyby Attack, Hoover, Multiattack
Environment: A chaotic evil-aligned plane
Organization: Solitary (Unique)
Challenge Rating: 6
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Chaotic Evil
Advancement: None
Level Adjustment: —

[Description of creature belongs here including what it look like in its natural form and what language it speaks.]

Combat

Shabri prefers to use tricks, deception and fear. As a deceiver of the unwary, this demon prefers to fool others to fight for him and to feed him souls and magical energies to empower himself.

In actual combat, Shabri will attempt to charm, disguise and confuse his way out of direct fighting. If pressed, he will attack certain fury to keep his existence going.

Alternate Form (Su): Shabri the Deceptive can assume other forms at will as a standard action. This ability functions as a polymorph spell cast on itself (caster level 12th), except that Shabri the Deceptive does not regain hit points for changing form, and can assume only assume the form of the being that summoned it or made communion with it.

Spell-Like Abilities: At will—charm person (DC 14), disguise self (adds +10 to Disguise check), ghost sound (disbelief DC 13), minor image (disbelief DC 15); 3/day—dispel magic (+7 check); 1/day—glibness (+30 bonus on Bluff checks made to convince another of the truth of your words). Caster level 7th.

Summon (Sp): Once per day, Sbabri the Deceptive can attempt to summon 1 babau with a 50% chance of success. This ability is the equivalent of a 3rd-level spell.

Debby

Togath
2011-09-12, 06:37 PM
Do note that demon traits are "unless otherwise noted", so it may lack them, as for magic and good aligned dr, good aligned only, or magic only has always seemed somewhat weak to me(why is evil weaker against good?, and why is a +1 weapon just as good as a +5?), and it's only dr, there are plenty of ways around it.
For how it looks, it sounds like(from what the op has said about it) like it's meant to look like a giant bat.
Also don't forget that he could mean demon as in an evil outsider, without having thought of the fact that there's a subtype of creatures called that in dnd.

Debihuman
2011-09-12, 09:39 PM
To answer Torgoth's concerns & questions:

1. I did notice that the demon traits are "unless otherwise noted". It is up to Tzi to determine if what I did was correct. I just corrected the stat block to the best of my ability, but it is up to Tzi to determine if I did it correctly.

2. "As for magic and good aligned DR, good aligned only, or magic only has always seemed somewhat weak to me." That is because it would be unreasonable for a 4th level party to have weapons that are both good-aligned and magical at the same time. This is strictly a matter of what is reasonable for the equipment that the party has. If this were CR 6 or higher, Good-Aligned AND Magical would be reasonable.

3. "And why is a +1 weapon just as good as a +5?" It isn't. Creatures take still take more damage from +5 weapons than they do by +1 weapons, but either magic weapons affect it or they don't. It's not likely that a party at level 4 will have +2 weapons in any case.

The new DR system allows for more versatility than just whether an item had a magic bonus. The Update Booklet goes into detail about the changes to Damage Reduction. I recommend you read it if you haven't already.

In addition, this structure means that magic weapons don't become obsolete as quickly. That +1 sword doesn't do as much damage as a +2 but it also doesn't become a wasted item against monsters as quickly. This is good for low-magic campaigns and it means less work for high-magic campaigns so that the party isn't constantly spending time on trading up because an item is suddenly useless.

4. "Why is evil weaker against good?" It isn't. Evil creatures take damage from good-aligned weapons and Good creatures take damage from evil-aligned weapons. See Astral Deva which has DR 10/Evil as an example.

More often you'll see DR/Good than DR/Evil because the heroes are usually good and the monsters are usually evil. It is the nature of heroic fantasy. In a horror campaign, you'd probably see more of the reverse.

5. "For how it looks, it sounds like (from what the op has said about it) like it's meant to look like a giant bat." That may be, but I'll let Tzi decide. This is his creation after all. Some DMs like to personalize their monsters and some are more generic. I don't want to step on his toes in this department.

6. "Also don't forget that he could mean demon as in an evil outsider, without having thought of the fact that there's a subtype of creatures called that in D&D[sic]." Words have meaning. If you call something a demon, then it should have demon traits. Otherwise, it is simply an evil outsider. Ditto for devils. You probably wouldn't call a human an elf either though both are Humanoids. Furthermore, these words have in-game consequences. A human gets a bonus human feat. An elf gets darkvision. Being precise is rather more important than you give credit.

Debby

Tzi
2011-09-12, 10:30 PM
5. "For how it looks, it sounds like (from what the op has said about it) like it's meant to look like a giant bat." That may be, but I'll let Tzi decide. This is his creation after all. Some DMs like to personalize their monsters and some are more generic. I don't want to step on his toes in this department.

6. "Also don't forget that he could mean demon as in an evil outsider, without having thought of the fact that there's a subtype of creatures called that in D&D[sic]." Words have meaning. If you call something a demon, then it should have demon traits. Otherwise, it is simply an evil outsider. Ditto for devils. You probably wouldn't call a human an elf either though both are Humanoids. Furthermore, these words have in-game consequences. A human gets a bonus human feat. An elf gets darkvision. Being precise is rather more important than you give credit.


First it is a humanoid-ish looking creature with batlike wings as part of its arm structure. If it isn't disguised as various leaders of the local tribe that worship him as a god.

Also, in the setting I have made, Demon is a word used in lore for nearly any evil outsider, though I suppose giving it the typical demonic traits would be more mechanically correct. Lore wise it is a general demon/evil spirit, though for mechanics it should probably have full demonic traits.

Setting wise Demons and Devils are not that dissimilar, with demons merely being evil outsiders who are able to wander far more freely then devils who are bound more tightly into the settings version of hell.

Also thank you for your recommendations, Changes have been made.

Debihuman
2011-09-13, 10:03 AM
You're welcome.

A few minor errors have still crept in your stat block. Spell-like abilities are now at will and 3/day. That was probably just a copy/paste thing. I think you meant the first set of spells at will and confusion at 3/day.

Telepathy needs a distance in the stat block. Multiattack feat is one word.

Some lines are missing: Advancement, Environment, Level Adjustment, Organization, and Treasure.

Is the Skittering gray statted up anywhere?

Debby