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Ziegander
2011-09-15, 01:56 AM
The Seeker


http://img.booru.org/Grognard//images/20/e0a666d4a58f164052696c75ceae5f95eca4245d.jpg

Alignment: Any
Hit Die: 1d8

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

1st|+0|+1|+1|+1|Chasing Perfection (14), Skill Mastery, Weapon Aptitude

2nd|+1|+1|+1|+1|Fighting Spirit

3rd|+2|+2|+2|+2|Spell Savant (1st)

4th|+3|+2|+2|+2|Array of Tricks

5th|+3|+3|+3|+3|Chasing Perfection (16)

6th|+4|+3|+3|+3|Fighting Spirit

7th|+5|+3|+3|+3|Spell Savant (2nd)

8th|+6/+1|+4|+4|+4|Array of Tricks

9th|+6/+1|+4|+4|+4|Chasing Perfection (18)

10th|+7/+2|+5|+5|+5|Fighting Spirit

11th|+8/+3|+5|+5|+5|Spell Savant (3rd)

12th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+6|Array of Tricks

13th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+6|Chasing Perfection (20)

14th|+10/+5|+6|+6|+6|Fighting Spirit

15th|+11/+6/+1|+7|+7|+7|Spell Savant (4th)

16th|+12/+7/+2|+7|+7|+7|Array of Tricks

17th|+12/+7/+2|+8|+8|+8|Chasing Perfection (22)

18th|+13/+8/+3|+8|+8|+8|Fighting Spirit

19th|+14/+9/+4|+8|+8|+8|Spell Savant (5th)

20th|+15/+10/+5|+9|+9|+9|Array of Tricks, Perfect Self
[/table]

Class Skills (6 + Int modifier): All skills.

Weapons & Armor Proficiency
A Seeker is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with light and medium armors, and with shields (but not Tower Shields).

Chasing Perfection (Ex): A Seeker's goal is perfection of style, philosophy, and form, and the most noticeable representation of this goal, the harmony of her mind, body, and spirit, is the result of rigorous training and discipline. At 1st level, any of the Seeker's ability scores that are below 14 are increased to 14. As she gains levels her ability scores continue to increase at a rate far superior to her colleagues, such that every four levels after 1st her lowest ability scores increase to a higher value (as given in the table above). This increase applies to the Seeker's innate ability scores, unmodified by magic (for example, if a 13th level Seeker wears an Amulet of Health +4, but without it her Constitution is 18, her Constitution increases to 20, or 24 with the Amulet).

Skill Mastery (Ex): A Seeker may take 10 even when threatened or distracted with any skill in which she has 1 or more ranks a number of times per day equal to her ability modifier in the ability score associated with that skill. She may use this ability a maximum number of times each day equal to twice her Seeker levels.

Weapon Aptitude (Ex): With 1 hour of practice with a new weapon a Seeker may change the designated weapon for any feat she possesses that applies to a specific weapon (such as Weapon Focus or Boomerang Daze) replacing one weapon for another in both the prerequisites and the feat's description. She must have the newly designated weapon in hand during her practice and she must be proficient with it to make this change.

A Seeker can adjust any number of feats with a single practice in this way, but she doesn't have to adjust them all in the same way. She cannot change the designated weapons in such a way that she no longer meets the prerequisites for another feat she possesses. Feats adjusted in this way remain so designated for as long as she likes. She may re-adjust to a previously designated weapon as a swift action within 1 day per Seeker level of adjusting from that weapon, otherwise she must spend another hour in practice to adjust her feats.

For example, Artemis, human Seeker 6, possesses the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Gnome Quickrazor), Two-Weapon Fighting, Power Attack, Combat Casting, Spellrazor, Empower Spell-like Ability, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Talenta Boomerang), and Boomerang Daze feats. She finds an enchanted Greatsword that she fancies, and spends an hour practicing with it, designating her feats such that she may make an attack with a melee touch spell and the Greatsword as a full-round action, and also so that when she hits with the Greatsword she might daze foes.

Fighting Spirit:
At 2nd level and every four levels thereafter a Seeker gains a bonus feat drawn from the Fighter's list of bonus feats. She must meet the prerequisites of any feat gained this way and her Seeker levels are treated as Fighter levels for just this purpose.

When you retrain your weapon specific feats with Weapon Aptitude, you may also retrain any or all of your Fighting Spirit feats. This follows the usual rules for retraining, but takes only one hour.

Spell Savant (Sp): Beginning at 3rd level a Seeker's magical talents show their promise. As long as the Seeker gets 8 hours of full rest, at the start of each day she chooses a number of spells equal to half her Seeker level (rounded up) from any level available to her and from any class spell list. That day she has an equal number of slots available to mimic the use of those spells as spell-like abilities.

The saving throw for any spell-like ability used in this way is 10 + 1/2 Seeker level + the Seeker's highest ability modifier. She may choose new spells to mimic each day, but she does not retain those chosen from days past.

At 3rd level she may mimic 1st level spells, and every four levels thereafter a higher spell level becomes available to her. To mimic a spell in this way, she expends an available slot. She may use any spell-like ability at any time provided she has available slots left. All of her slots are recovered any time the Seeker takes a short rest (5 minutes or longer), but she may recover a single slot at a time by spending a full-round action.

Array of Tricks:
At 4th level and every four levels thereafter a Seeker gains a bonus feat which must not be drawn from the Fighter's list of bonus feats. These feats can be any feat other than a Fighter bonus feat so long as the Seeker meets the prerequisites.

When you retrain your weapon specific feats with Weapon Aptitude, you may also retrain any or all of your Array of Tricks feats. This follows the usual rules for retraining, but takes only one hour.

Perfect Self (Ex): A 20th level Seeker no longer accrues any penalties due to her age, loses any such penalties she has already accrued, and in fact gains a +4 perfection bonus to all ability scores. Additionally, she gains Damage Reduction 10/--, Resistance to all types of Energy 10, and Regeneration 10. Her regeneration is overcome only by vile damage, or cursed weapons. Finally, she is immune to ability damage and drain, confusion, disease, negative levels, poison, and insanity.

jiriku
2011-09-16, 01:16 PM
Weapon Aptitude appears to be able to change an Exotic Weapon Proficiency requirement into a Martial Weapon Proficiency requirement. You should probably mention that explicitly, as I didn't catch it on the first read-through.


While the class is generally quite modest, the open-ended nature of some of the features creates a number of possible exploits. Depending on the campaign power level, you might want to write a banlist to go with the class, or you might consider those exploits to be an intended feature.

For example, Weapon Aptitude redeems a lot of otherwise useless [style] feats in Complete Warrior, but it also contains the ability to apply Lightning Mace to any 18-20 range weapon, so it's almost a no-brainer for seekers to pick up Lightning Mace and Improved Critical. You may find that desirable or undesirable.

Likewise, the ability to cherry-pick spells from different lists grants easy access to certain spell combos, like, at 15th level, beastland ferocity + delay death to become immune to death from hit point damage for several minutes each day. Again, not sure where you're aiming for power, so you might find combos like this either desirable or undesirable.

Ziegander
2011-09-16, 01:54 PM
Weapon Aptitude appears to be able to change an Exotic Weapon Proficiency requirement into a Martial Weapon Proficiency requirement. You should probably mention that explicitly, as I didn't catch it on the first read-through.

I thought that's explicitly the kind of thing Weapon Aptitude already says it does. The line, "replacing one weapon for another in both the prerequisites and the feat's description," seems pretty clear to me, but do you have any thoughts on how I might clean it up?


While the class is generally quite modest, the open-ended nature of some of the features creates a number of possible exploits. Depending on the campaign power level, you might want to write a banlist to go with the class, or you might consider those exploits to be an intended feature.

They are definitely an intended feature. In a low-optimization game, the Seeker functions, probably, like a PC Expert class, but in a higher optimization game, a savvy player can use this class to pull of some very interesting and often unique abilities. The simple elegance of the mechanics I find appealing. Any class that needs to come with a banlist is just poorly designed.


Likewise, the ability to cherry-pick spells from different lists grants easy access to certain spell combos, like, at 15th level, beastland ferocity + delay death to become immune to death from hit point damage for several minutes each day.

Which is at 15th level, when Wizards and Clerics are throwing around 8th levels spells. Immune to hit point damage at 15th level + chance of death by dispel magic is nothing I'm worried about. Now, while there are likely more dangerous (and more fun) exploits, again I consider this a feature that allows a well-played Seeker to run with the higher Tier classes and not feel completely useless.

I've been trying to think of a way to make the Seeker even a bit more open-ended, but I've not come up with a satisfactory way yet. I want to allow the Seeker to "retrain" her Fighting Spirit and Array of Tricks feats everyday like she does her "spells known." Does anyone have a wording suggestion for me?

jiriku
2011-09-16, 02:43 PM
I thought that's explicitly the kind of thing Weapon Aptitude already says it does. The line, "replacing one weapon for another in both the prerequisites and the feat's description," seems pretty clear to me, but do you have any thoughts on how I might clean it up?

My reading is that the new choice must be a legal one. Exotic Weapon Proficiency (greatsword) or Martial Weapon Proficiency (gnomish quickrazor) would not be a valid choice, because a greatsword is not exotic and a quickrazor is not martial. But if you want to generalize it a little further, I don't see any balance issues with that. The class is clearly intended to have a lot of versatility, so the ability to pick up exotic weapons on the fly or re-purpose specialized feats is exactly what it should be doing.


[QUOTE=Ziegander;11859638]I've been trying to think of a way to make the Seeker even a bit more open-ended, but I've not come up with a satisfactory way yet. I want to allow the Seeker to "retrain" her Fighting Spirit and Array of Tricks feats everyday like she does her "spells known." Does anyone have a wording suggestion for me?

"When you retrain your weapon specific feats with Weapon Aptitude, you may also retrain any or all of your Fighting Spirit and Array of Tricks feats. This follows the usual rules for retraining, but takes only one hour."

Corrik
2011-09-16, 02:43 PM
You might not want to include chasing perfection at level 1 or have it so that if you take levels in another class you lose your Seeker abilities. Otherwise getting it at first level means that everyone will take at least a one level dip in this class. You could min/max like a freak(20,18,8,7,7,7) and with your first level make all of your dump stats 14.

Overall I like it, it has a lot of flavor and seems like it would be a ton of fun to play.

Ziegander
2011-09-16, 03:07 PM
My reading is that the new choice must be a legal one. Exotic Weapon Proficiency (greatsword) or Martial Weapon Proficiency (gnomish quickrazor) would not be a valid choice, because a greatsword is not exotic and a quickrazor is not martial.

Ah, good catch. In my head I was making the switch in the feat description and not in the prerequisites... Hrm.... how to word this properly... I may end up simply saying that, for weapon proficiency prerequisites, the prerequisite feat changes to match the type of weapon (so if a feat required Exotic Weapon Proficiency (specific weapon) and you changed (specific weapon) to (morningstar) the prerequisite would change to Simple Weapon Proficiency (Morningstar)).


"When you retrain your weapon specific feats with Weapon Aptitude, you may also retrain any or all of your Fighting Spirit and Array of Tricks feats. This follows the usual rules for retraining, but takes only one hour."

That works well enough. I'll put this in the entries for Fighting Spirit and Array of Tricks, respectively, though.


Otherwise getting it at first level means that everyone will take at least a one level dip in this class.

That is undesirable...

I really, really hate multiclassing restrictions like the Paladin and Monk, but it may be the only alternative.


You could min/max like a freak(20,18,8,7,7,7) and with your first level make all of your dump stats 14.

Of course, for straight Seekers, this is the intended and expected outcome. But the one level dip is a problem...


Overall I like it, it has a lot of flavor and seems like it would be a ton of fun to play.

Thank you. I wanted to design a fun, simple class that exemplified the "generic hero" concept well, and allowed for TONS of variance in playstyle and build. I just need to develop that capstone and write up some actual fluff and "playing a Seeker" information.

Mikka
2011-09-17, 07:21 AM
You might not want to include chasing perfection at level 1 or have it so that if you take levels in another class you lose your Seeker abilities. Otherwise getting it at first level means that everyone will take at least a one level dip in this class. You could min/max like a freak(20,18,8,7,7,7) and with your first level make all of your dump stats 14.

Overall I like it, it has a lot of flavor and seems like it would be a ton of fun to play.

This.

Even a fourth level dip is pretty good.

+3 bab, +TONS of ability scores, +2 feats, 2 level 1 spells (damn useful), SKILL MASTERY, and weapon aptitude.

Then again, its not thaaaat. powerful.

But the ability scores thing needs to be toned down. Even a non-dipper gains some serious advantages out of this i have to admit.

Soliloquy
2012-01-17, 09:27 PM
I think that you should make rules for ex-seekers. However, I love the chasing perfection, as I always hated 1. sacrificing maxing an important ability for another less important one, and 2. sacrificing a more minor ability to max a more important one.

for skill mastery you probably meant
Skill Mastery (Ex): A Seeker may take 10 even when threatened or distracted with any skill in which she has 1 or more ranks a number of times per day equal to her ability modifier in the ability score associated with that skill. She may use this ability a total number of times each day equal to twice her Seeker levels

Thank you for bringing this class into the world.

Ziegander
2012-01-17, 10:42 PM
for skill mastery you probably meant
Skill Mastery (Ex): A Seeker may take 10 even when threatened or distracted with any skill in which she has 1 or more ranks a number of times per day equal to her ability modifier in the ability score associated with that skill. She may use this ability a maximum number of times each day equal to twice her Seeker levels.

Yep, you got that right. Thanks!


Thank you for bringing this class into the world.

You are most welcome!

zegram 33
2012-01-18, 05:37 AM
i'm reading this as "8-bit theatres red mage: The Class" which is frankly awesome
the part i like most about this class is that the strength of it deoends almost entirely on the thoughtfulness and general cunning of the player, which is always the sign of a good class imo.

seems strong but not TOO strong. since it seems to be the party pokedex for, well, everything, what abount either a scaling bonus to all skills (1/2 class levels or such?) and/or the ability to make skill checks untrained, because lets face it, it has a LOT of skills to try and cover with comparativley few skill points (well, lots of skill points, but not compared with the number of skills it has)

Kane0
2012-01-18, 06:55 AM
Just expressing my interest in this class. I like forward to trying it out if i ever get the chance!

Soliloquy
2012-03-11, 05:49 PM
Just a thought but you could have chasing perfection have a limit of level.

Dead_Jester
2012-03-11, 07:25 PM
Just a thought but you could have chasing perfection have a limit of level.

Which would make it useless until level 10, and than make it scale at the same rhythm. However, making it 10 + 1/2 level could work a bit better, but it would progress slightly slower and finish slightly less powerful.

Soliloquy
2012-03-12, 03:00 PM
Oh no, I meant like
Chasing perfection can only give a maximum bonus to any one ability equal to your seeker level.