View Full Version : Theurgic Specialist

2011-09-15, 12:15 PM
Spells from your specialist school benefit from your
knowledge of other spellcasting classes.
Prerequisites: Specialist wizard level 3rd, any other
spellcasting class level 1st.
Benefit: When casting a spell from your specialist school
(off the spell list of any spellcasting class you have), you can
add together the caster levels of all your spellcasting classes
to determine your caster level. For example, a 3rd-level
druid/1st-level sorcerer/3rd-level diviner could cast any spell
from the divination school as a 7th-level caster (even when
casting a druid or sorcerer spell).
This does not affect your spells per day or spells known. It
only increases your caster level when casting spells of the
appropriate school.
Dragon Magazine #: 325 (A Surge of Theurgy – Feats that
Combine Class Abilities)

now my question: can my caster level become greater than my HD (for the specialization school only, of course) if i have levels from the mystic theurge, or through the use of Practiced Spellcaster (Complete Divine) or similar talents?

Fouredged Sword
2011-09-15, 12:21 PM
Yes you can get CL higher than HD through this and duel progression classes.

Yes you can use practiced spellcaster to increase Cl higher than HD becuse you apply feats and abilities in the manner than benifits the user the most.

2011-09-15, 12:22 PM
This seems....problematic. Have you seen Ur-Priest?

Keld Denar
2011-09-15, 12:23 PM
Yes. Its not difficult to get a CL higher than your HD. An Orange Prizm IWIN Stone on a straight class caster will give you a CL = HD+1 on its own. See also: Archmage, Ultimate Magus, various aligned domains, etc.

This seems....problematic. Have you seen Ur-Priest?

Needs more Master Spellthief, possibly with a side of Sublime Chord.

Sublime Ur-Thief? Be an Evocation specialist, cast Blasphemy at CL ~250 as a 14th level caster...FOR THE LULZ!

Fouredged Sword
2011-09-15, 12:25 PM
bard / wizard / ur-priest / sublime chord / mystic thurge!!!!!

I hate the gods and I sing about it!!!!

And my spells of a particular area are very powerful!!!!!!!

2011-09-15, 12:30 PM
So...how dya all feel about gestalt?

*giggles evilly*

Keld Denar
2011-09-15, 01:00 PM
Would you even need that? Illumian (Krau sigil) Savage Bard1/Wizard3/Mindbender1/Ur-Priest2/Warmage1/Duskblade1/Spellthief1/SublimeChord2/MysticTheurge8.

Probably needs Able Learner (Illumian's are Humanoid(Human)), Sanctum Spell or Improved Krau, and a couple other things, but it works.

Now what order to apply things in?

Master Spellthief makes your CL for everything but Ur-Priest 18 (sum of Arcane spellcasting classes and Spellthief, which is everything but the 2 levels of Ur-Priest). Krau sigil adds 2 to that, up to your HD. That makes everything CL20 for easy math.

Sublime Chord has a CL equal to the sum of all other arcane CLs + SC CLs. That means you are sitting on a SC CL of 20(Wizard)+20(Bard)+20(Warmage)+20(Duskblade)+20(S pellthief)+20(SublimeChord) = 120.

Your Ur-Priest CL then is 20 + 1/2(120), or 80.

Now, you cast a Blasphemy from your Ur-Priest casting. Blasphemy is Evocation, and since you are an Evoker and have Theurgic Specialist, your CL for Blasphemy is equal to the sum of all of your respective CLs.

20+20+20+20+20+20+120+80= 320. Anything with less than 310 HD that isn't evil DIES. No save. SR? Good luck, I have a +320 on my roll to beat it.

The only people who survive that are deaf people, evil people, and golems with Magic Immunity. All others, who have been deemed naughty in my sight, shall snuff it.

Pshhh, who says Evocation is a "weak school"....

2011-09-15, 01:03 PM
Oh, I don't think it's a matter of NEED, sir. Just hilarity.

2011-09-15, 01:26 PM
Theory op

I'll point out that that trick only really works if your DM agrees with the reading that Master Spellthief adds all of your arcane caster levels together, while arguments could be made that it adds your Spellthief level to the caster level of other classes. Also, I don't know where you got the idea that Sublime Chord adds together all of your arcane classes.

A sublime chord’s caster level for both her sublime chord spells and the spells she gains from other arcane spellcasting classes is determined by adding her sublime chord level to her level in another arcane spellcasting class. If she had more than one arcane spellcasting class before becoming a sublime chord, she must choose to which class to add her sublime chord levels for the purpose of determining her sublime chord spellcaster level.

It's pretty clear that you only get one. However, one may be all you need, since

Your spellthief and arcane spellcaster levels also stack when determining your caster level for all arcane spells.

So, if I'm reading this right, your Sublime Chord caster level is normally equal to your Sublime Chord caster level added to your Spellthief caster level. Tack on Master Spellthief, and your Spellthief caster level is added to your Sublime Chord caster level for the purpose of both of them. If you were a Spellthief 1/Bard X/Sublime Chord 1, your Sublime Chord caster level would be 2 (1 Spellthief, 1 Sublime Chord). Master Spellthief would make your Spellthief caster level 3 (CL 2 Sublime Chord, CL 1 Spellthief). Now your caster level in Spellthief went up, so your Sublime Chord spells get CL 4 (1 level in Sublime Chord, CL 3 Spellthief).

Effectively, your piddling CL 320 is nothing before an infinite loop. Pun-Pun can't even do that without giving himself a custom ability. His CL is arbitrarily high, but this (if it works) is infinite.

Somebody please tell me I'm wrong. I really don't want this to work.

Fouredged Sword
2011-09-15, 01:32 PM
And undead control pools are based on CL....

Sublime chord is the ultimate undead minion master!!!!

Keld Denar
2011-09-15, 01:33 PM
Well, the question is, how many times does the feat check things. I assumed in my idea that everything was only checked once. You either apply MST once and THEN apply SC, or you apply SC first, THEN apply MST, not that you apply MST, then SC, then MST, then SC, then MST, then SC, etc.

My bad on the Sublime Chord thing, while I looked up Ur-Priest to make sure that it only counted one class, I was running SC from memory (which was a wrong memory).

I guess that reduces my SC CL down to 40, which means my UP CL is 30 (1/2 SC + 10), and my final CL for Blasphemy is still a respectable 190. Anything with 180 HD or less auto-dies.

And thats before tacking on a +1 CL increase for something like an Orange IWIN stone, which would increase your CL with all 8 classes by 1, resulting in a net increase of 8 for the first one, 10 for the 2nd CL increase, 8 for the 3rd, 10 for the 4th, etc.