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EdroGrimshell
2011-09-15, 09:02 PM
Tsora
A tsora is a very rare race, consisting of the remnants of a psicrystal that has survived its masterís death, ectoplasm, and fragments of a tsoreva quori spirit. This crystalís mind remains in a stasis like state, thriving on the realm of dreams some of these psicrystals successfully capture part of a tsoreva quori, its mind bonds with the quori shards and its physical form draws ectoplasm to itself solidifying into a humanoid creature.

Personality: A tsoraís personality is a cross between the psicrystalís original personality and that of the tsoreva quori it has bonded with. This makes them diverse, although some personalities are more readily able to become a tsora than others. The most common being the hero, resolved, and single-minded personalities, as well as most that have multiple personality shards. Many tsora steadily develop more personality shards over time

Physical Description: A tsora resembles a partially crystallized humanoid with arms similar to those of a tsoreva quori. A tsoraís body is either light brown or red in color with an almost chitinous shell to it that is more cosmetic than it is functional. A tsoraís eyes glow a deep sapphire blue. A tsoraís body is constructed from an amorphous crystal mixed with ectoplasm, making it more resilient than normal creatures. Precise features vary from Tsora to Tsora, but common features often include elf-like ears, slit-pupiled eyes, a third eye, a braid of ectoplasm on the back of their head, tusk-like lower teeth similar to an orc's, or even a smaller frame reminiscent of a halfling or gnome. These features represent their former master and often tell what race the Tsora's former master belonged to.

Relations: A tsora is a rare creature, few know of their existence, and those that meet them have different views on them based on their alignment and personality. Good aligned tsora can get along well with any race, although evil ones are loners. Most tsora have good relations with naturally psionic races like the xeph, maenad, and elan, those that focus on psionics usually being fond of elans while those with a more martial orientation liking the xeph more due to the similarities they typically possess.

Alignment: A tsoraís alignment varies based on what its former masterís alignment was, although bonding with a quori has made them more likely to be lawful than chaotic.

Languages: A tsora automatically knows both common and quori, many remember the languages their master had in life.

Tsora Racial Traits
*+2 Int, -2 Dex: A tsoraís nature as a psionic entity makes it intelligent but it's crystalline form makes it rigid.
*Medium
*Construct (Living Construct, Psionic)
*A tsora can imbed psionic warforged components in the same way as a normal warforged.
*Naturally Psionic: A tsora gains one power point at 1st level.
*Astral Shaping (Su): A tsora may spend one power point as a standard action to gain a single menu A choice available to an astral construct. You gain all the normal benefits of the chosen ability for one minute. A tsora that takes the buff ability gains 5 temporary hit points. A tsora cannot take the flight ability. A tsora cannot benefit from more than one Astral Shaping at any given time. If an ability requires the use of a slam attack, the Tsora may instead use any attack it may have.
*A tsora cannot obtain a psicrystal in any way. It qualifies as a psicrystal (and is treated as having Psicrystal Affinity) for all purposes. It does not, however, gain any of the benefits of a normal psicrystal. Although class features that modify a psicrystal (such as a metamindís cognizant psicrystal feature) apply normally and the tsora may obtain an elemental envoy.
*A tsora gains Body Fuel as a bonus feat at 1st level even if he does not meet the prerequisites.
*Automatic Languages: Common and Quori. Bonus Languages: Any
*Favored Class: Psion.


Racial Feats

Tsoreva Mind Blade [Racial, Psionic]
You access the power of your tsoreva quori spirit to manifest its mind blade and its ability to wield it effectively.
Prerequisites: Tsora
Benefits: You can transform one of your hands into a blade of psionic energy as a move action. This blade deals damage as a short sword. A tsora is automatically proficient with this blades. While this blade is active, you cannot use your hand for any other purpose. This blade otherwise acts like the Mindblade class feature.
Special: A tsora with this feat can enchant this blade as if it was a normal weapon. It also gains any enhancements granted to a normal mind blade granted from levels as a soulknife.

Twin Mind Blades [Racial, Psionic]
You can manifest a tsoreva quori's second mind blade and fight with the twin blades effectively.
Prerequisites: Tsora, Tsoreva Mind Blade
Benefits: You can manifest a second Tsoreva Mind Blade. You must spend a separate move action to form this mind blade and it must be enchanted separately from the other. You can are treated as having Two Weapon Fighting when wielding these mind blades only.

Crystal Mind Blade [Racial, Psionic]
You can charge your mind blades with psionic energy to deal more damage.
Prerequisites: Tsora, Tsoreva Mind Blades or Mind Blade class feature
Benefits: You can spend power points to charge your mind blades as if they were made of deep crystal.

Crysteel Mind Blade [Racial, Psionic]
Your mind blades resonate with your psionic energy.
Prerequisites: Tsora, Tsoreva Mind Blades or Mind Blade class feature
Benefits: Your mind blades gain the benefits of Reidran Crysteel (Eberron Campaign Setting pg127).

Galvanic Mind Blade [Racial, Psionic]
You learn to invest psionic energy in your mind blades.
Prerequisites: Tsora, Crystal Mind Blade or Crysteel Mind Blade
Benefits: Your mind blades gain the Galvanic Property (Magic of Eberron pg125).

Psychic Mind Blade [Racial, Psionic]
You the more mental energy you possess, the stronger your mind blades are.
Prerequisites: Tsora, Crystal Mind Blade or Crysteel Mind Blade
Benefits: Your mind blades gain the Psychic Property (Magic Item Compendium pg41). Unlike normal enhancement bonuses the bonus provided by this feat stacks with the enhancement bonus provided by levels in the soulknife class.
Special: Power points invested in the Natural Cognizance and Galvanic Mind Blades feats as well as similar features that allow you to store power points in yourself (such as the metamind Cognizance Psicrystal class feature) count towards the enchantment provided by the Psychic Property.

Natural Cognizance [Racial, Psionic]
Your crystalline nature allows you to store your power for later use.
Prerequisites: Tsora
Benefits: You can store a number of power points in your body equal to 1 + half your character level.

Greater Cognizance [Racial, Psionic]
You can store more psionic energy than normal.
Prerequisites: Tsora, Natural Cognizance
Benefits: If you gain the ability to store power points from another source (such as a metamindís cognizant psicrystal class feature or the Creature Capacitor feat) add the amount gained from that source to the amount you can store in the Natural Cognizance feat.

Crystal Shards [Racial, Psionic]
You have learned to shape ectoplasm into crystalline shards usable as thrown weapons.
Prerequisites: Tsora, Tsoreva Mind Blade
Benefits: You can create a shard of razor sharp crystal that can be thrown as a weapon. This shard deals 1d6 points of bludgeon, piercing, or slashing damage (chosen when thrown), scores a critical hit on a roll of 19 or 20, deals double damage on a critical hit, and has a range increment of 50ft. A tsora can create one shard for each attack he would get in a round. These crystals disperse shortly after striking an object.

Deep Crystal Shards [Racial, Psionic]
You can charge your crystal shards as if they were deep crystal.
Prerequisites: Tsora, Tsoreva Mind Blade, Crystal Mind Blades, Crystal Shards
Benefits: You can spend power points to charge your crystal shards as if they were made of deep crystal.

Ectoplasmic Repair [Racial, Psionic]
You can use psionic energy to repair yourself.
Prerequisites: Tsora
Benefits: As a full-round action, you can spend power points to heal yourself by three points for every power point you expend for this feat. You cannot spend more power points than your character level on this ability.

Improved Ectoplasmic Repair [Racial, Psionic]
You can use psionic energy to regenerate yourself.
Prerequisites: Tsora, Ectoplasmic Repair
Benefits: you now heal five points of damage for every power point you expend for the Ectoplasmic Repair feat.

Ectoplasmic Fuel [Racial, Psionic]
You use excess ectoplasm from your form to fuel your powers instead of your actual body.
Prerequisites: Tsora
Benefits: You take one point of ability burn from your choice of Str, Dex or Con when using the Body Fuel feat.
Normal: You take one points of ability burn to each Str, Dex, and Con when using the Body Fuel feat.

Improved Ectoplasmic Fuel [Racial, Psionic]
You have learned to only lessen one aspect of your body when fuelling your mind.
Prerequisites: Tsora, Extoplasmic Fuel
Benefits: You gain four power points for each point of ability burn you take from the Body Fuel feat.
Normal: You gain two power points for every point of ability burn you take to each Str, Dex, and Con when using the Body Fuel feat.

Astral Shaper [Racial, Psionic]
You can shape multiple traits with your astral shaping ability rather than only one.
Prerequisites: Tsora, Character Level 3rd
Benefits: You can spend additional power points to gain another menu A ability available to astral constructs. For each additional ability the Power Point cost increases by two (Ex. first ability has the normal cost, second ability costs two extra PP, third costs four extra PP, etc.). You may never spend more power points on this ability than your character level.

Invested Shaping [Racial, Psionic]
Instead of expending your mental energy to shape yourself you can invest it.
Prerequisites: Tsora, Astral Shaper
Benefits: While you maintain psionic focus, you can invest a power points into Astral Shaping instead of spending them permanantly for the day. The cost to access these menu abilities does not change. You can only have a number of invested power points equal to your character level. If you lose your psionic focus the points are uninvested and must be reinvested.

Improved Astral Shaping [Racial, Psionic]
You have improved your ability to shape your body's form.
Prerequisites: Tsora, Character level 6th
Benefits: You can select a menu B choice available to astral constructs for your Astral Shaping ability. You must spend three power points in order to gain a menu B ability.
Normal: You can only select menu A abilities for your Astral Shaping ability.

Greater Astral Shaping [Racial, Psionic]
You have further improved your ability to shape your body's form.
Prerequisites: Tsora, Character level 12th
Benefits: You can select a menu C choice available to astral constructs for your Astral Shaping ability. You must spend five power points in order to gain a menu C ability.
Normal: You can only select menu A abilities for your Astral Shaping ability.

Rapid Astral Shaping [Racial, Psionic]
You can shape the ectoplasm in your body faster than normal.
Prerequisites: Tsora
Benefits: Using your Astral Shaping ability takes a move action.
Normal: Using you Astral Shaping ability takes a standard action.

Swift Astral Shaping [Racial, Psionic]
You can shape the ectoplasm of your body at a moment's notice.
Prerequisites: Tsora, Rapid Astral Shaper
Benefits: You can spend two extra power points to use your Astral Shaping ability as a swift action.
Normal: Using you Astral Shaping ability takes a standard action.


Tsora Paragon
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|Manifesting

1st|+0|+0|+0|+2|Master's Knowledge|+1 Psion Level

2nd|+1|+0|+0|+3|Superior Astral Shaping|---

3rd|+2|+0|+0|+3|Ability Boost (+2 Int)|+1 Psion Level[/Table]

Class Skills: Autohypnosis (Wis), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (All; Each skill taken separately) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Psicraft (Int), Spot (Wis), and Tumble (Dex). 4 + Int mod (x4 at 1st level)

Wpn/Arm Prof: A tsora is proficient with all simple weapons and with light armor, but not with shields.

Masters Knowledge: At 1st and 3rd level, a tsora paragon gains new powers known, power points per day, manifester level, and maximum power level as if he had gained a level in psion. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. A tsora paragon without levels in psion instead gains the knowledge of a single 1st level power and a single power point at 1st and 3rd level as well as two power points at 2nd level. The manifester level for these powers is half the Tsora's character level or his manifester level from a class, whichever is higher.

Superior Astral Shaping: Beginning at 2nd level, a tsora paragon can select one choice offered by his astral shaping, he gains the benefits of that choice for 24 hours. If he chooses the buff ability, his total hit points increase by five for 24 hours. Additionally, he gains access to the flight ability, although he cannot select it as a 24-hour choice.

Ability Boost: A tsora paragonís intelligence score permanently increases by two.

EdroGrimshell
2011-09-15, 09:07 PM
Okay, this is a repost of a race i made a while back with some revamping, mainly in the fluff and racial feats sections.

I would like input on how to expand on the fluff, make the race better, and some ideas for more feats, anyone that has seen my previous races will know i like setting a race that can pick which direction it goes via racial feats so i tend to hold up on the race a bit. And i seem to have some trouble with the fluff most of the time so ways to expand it are appreciated.

Pyromancer999
2011-09-15, 10:01 PM
Nice work. Still, the fluff seems awfully similar to this one work of mine (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-204556.html).

EdroGrimshell
2011-09-15, 10:06 PM
Nice work. Still, the fluff seems awfully similar to this one work of mine (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-204556.html).

The original was posted two years and four days prior to your own, see for yourself (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115564)

Pyromancer999
2011-09-15, 10:50 PM
The original was posted two years and four days prior to your own, see for yourself (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115564)

If you want to be get picky, my original (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19571354/New_Psionic_Race:_Crystal_Folk_PEACH) was posted in the Wizards forums three days before your original.

EdroGrimshell
2011-09-15, 11:04 PM
If you want to be get picky, my original (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19571354/New_Psionic_Race:_Crystal_Folk_PEACH) was posted in the Wizards forums three days before your original.

I stopped going on the Wizards site ages ago, not since it became less for homebrew and more for discussions and i subsequently switched to this site

Pyromancer999
2011-09-15, 11:10 PM
I stopped going on the Wizards site ages ago, not since it became less for homebrew and more for discussions and i subsequently switched to this site

Yeah, I know what you mean. Not saying you copied me or anything like that, if that's what you're thinking. Was just commenting that you did a good job on this race and that I did something similar.

Domriso
2011-09-15, 11:32 PM
And, to be fair, this isn't the first time this idea has popped up. Dreamscarred Press has a psicrystal without a master somewhere (I read all the books at once, so I can't remember where certain things are).

That said, the race is interesting. I've never really delved much into the Quori, but otherwise it looks shiny.

EdroGrimshell
2011-09-16, 10:50 PM
And, to be fair, this isn't the first time this idea has popped up. Dreamscarred Press has a psicrystal without a master somewhere (I read all the books at once, so I can't remember where certain things are).

That said, the race is interesting. I've never really delved much into the Quori, but otherwise it looks shiny.

Any ideas on how to expand on it? It's a rather bland race considering it's base abilities, though astral shaping is rather useful. I also need to expand on the fluff a bit and find a way to incorporate personality and emotion shards into the race that would actually make sense and give something more than just a skill point bonus... Okay, Racial PrC idea... :smallamused:

Meleemancer
2011-09-18, 07:55 PM
I apologize if I'm just blind here, but what is the activation action for Astral Shaping?

EdroGrimshell
2011-09-18, 08:51 PM
I apologize if I'm just blind here, but what is the activation action for Astral Shaping?

Fixed that. Good catch, can't believe i missed it...

Mr.Bookworm
2011-09-18, 09:33 PM
I like it, buuuuut:


+2 Con, -2 Cha

While this makes sense for the race, do keep in mind that this makes Tsora an incredibly attractive race for a lot of builds, even without their other stuff. Charisma is almost the universal dump stat and every class in D&D needs more Con.

This also (combined with all of their other stuff) makes Tsora superior in almost every way to Warforged (who have +2 Con, -2 Cha, and -2 Wis). Pretty much the only thing they lose out on is Light Fortification. Beyond that, they're treading into "exactly the same, but better" territory.


(Living Construct

Another thing to keep in mind is that Living Construct is in-itself a racial advantage, and a really, really good one at that.


Naturally Psionic: A tsora gains one power point every odd level.

Why the change from the usual Naturally Psionic ability? A net gain of 10 pp over a "normal" psionic race is pretty good.


Astral Shaping (Su)

This is waaaaaaaaay too good for an LA +0 creature. This is essentially the ability to pick and choose between 5 feats, a 30 ft. swim speed, +10 to your land speed, resistance to any element, +1 AC, and 5 temp. hit points, all at-will for the cost of 1 pp (which you get 1 of at every odd level for no cost).

Note that the Trip option doesn't work, either, because Tsora don't get a slam attack.

I can't really think of any way to make this not broken, without giving it a point of LA.


A tsora cannot obtain a psicrystal in any way. It qualifies as a psicrystal (and is treated as having Psicrystal Affinity) for all purposes.

I'm pretty sure the ability to be a psicrystal can be broken half-a-dozen ways without a lot of trying. That's kind of overly cheesy territory, but it is something to keep in mind.


Ectoplasmic Fuel [Racial, Psionic]
You use excess ectoplasm from your form to fuel your powers instead of your actual body.
Prerequisites: Tsora
Benefits: You only take one point of ability burn to each Str, Dex, and Con when using the Body Fuel feat.
Normal: You take two points of ability burn to each Str, Dex, and Con when using the Body Fuel feat.

That's not how Body Fuel works. You get 2 pp for every 1 point of burn to Str/Dex/Con.

EdroGrimshell
2011-09-18, 09:54 PM
While this makes sense for the race, do keep in mind that this makes Tsora an incredibly attractive race for a lot of builds, even without their other stuff. Charisma is almost the universal dump stat and every class in D&D needs more Con.

This also (combined with all of their other stuff) makes Tsora superior in almost every way to Warforged (who have +2 Con, -2 Cha, and -2 Wis). Pretty much the only thing they lose out on is Light Fortification. Beyond that, they're treading into "exactly the same, but better" territory.

I was actually told to change the ability scores from my original +2 Int and -2 Str to +2 Con and -2 Cha. Also, you should not just state you have a problem with a specific feature, offer a way to fix it as a suggestion (do not just tell as it is extremely rude)


Another thing to keep in mind is that Living Construct is in-itself a racial advantage, and a really, really good one at that.

I realize, but really could you see this as anything other than a living construct?


Why the change from the usual Naturally Psionic ability? A net gain of 10 pp over a "normal" psionic race is pretty good.

Actually this is half what the Kalashtar gain so i don't see the problem here.


This is waaaaaaaaay too good for an LA +0 creature. This is essentially the ability to pick and choose between 5 feats, a 30 ft. swim speed, +10 to your land speed, resistance to any element, +1 AC, and 5 temp. hit points, all at-will for the cost of 1 pp (which you get 1 of at every odd level for no cost).

Note that the Trip option doesn't work, either, because Tsora don't get a slam attack.

I can't really think of any way to make this not broken, without giving it a point of LA. [/QUOTE]

For 1 minute at a time. At first level it may seem like a lot but you only get 1 point to spend unless you invest feats into expanding it in which case it'd probably just be easier to take the feat itself. Also, powers are actually a bit better in most cases. The time limit and standard action to use it actually are a balance point against it, you'd need to invest in feats to make this better in which case the feats offset the increased abilities of the Astral Shaping.

And you are contradicting what i was told in the original thread once more. I was told the Astral Shaping feature was fine as long as i took out the flight option, and i agree.


I'm pretty sure the ability to be a psicrystal can be broken half-a-dozen ways without a lot of trying. That's kind of overly cheesy territory, but it is something to keep in mind.

You can't be a psicrystal, you just count as a psicrystal for your own feats. If you could BE a psicrystal (and thus gain all the level oriented benefits from it) i would say it'd need an LA, but as of right now, i don't think that's the case.


That's not how Body Fuel works. You get 2 pp for every 1 point of burn to Str/Dex/Con.

I went off memory of the feat so i probably did get that wrong, I will fix that and thank you for pointing it out.

Deviston
2011-09-18, 10:04 PM
It seems as if you are making a PATHFINDER race and feats not so much 3.5 Your race is given two free feats, and one (or two in the case of Celerity) temporary free feat. Not to mention all the benefits of Living Construct type.


Also the ability bonus being Con and the Paragon Ability being Int doesn't really jive. I can't honestly see a reason for Con being it's + ability but I suppose that's mostly flavor based. On a NORMAL basis the + ability and the Paragon + ability jive.


Tsoreva Mind Blades is just strong as heck. Free Two Weapon Fighting with blades that can never be destroyed and can't be detected until accessed. Seems a little much for a level 1 feat (or a feat at all to be honest).


The Special ability from Natural Cognizance is worded a little oddly. It seems like it says ANY source of cognizance storing. Seeing as how (I assume) the intention is to allow the character to count as a psicrystal for the purpose of (for example) the metamind's ability the wording should be roughly like this:

Special: A tsora is considered his own psicrystal for effects or feats that allow storing power points in a psicrystal (the metamindís cognizant psicrystal class feature for example). The tsora adds this amount gained from that other source to the amount he can store from its Natural Cognizance.


Crystal Shards should have Tsoreva Mind Blades as a requirement


Ectoplasmic Regeneration.... what?! The Psion/Wilder 3 power Body Adjustment heals 1d12 with an additional 1d12 for every additional 2 points spent. This feat is giving you and MUCH MUCH more powerful heal at level 1. Far too strong for such a feat.


Astral Shaper is too strong aswell. I would increase the cost to "For each additional ability the Power Point cost increases by 2 ((or possibly even 3))". I also may have missed it, but how often can the Astral Shaping racial feature be used? I expected to see something like "times per day equal to half character level" or something similar. Unlimited uses is strong.


Invested Shaping boggled my mind until I reread it a few times. It's good to go.


Masters Knowledge is alittle strong. I don't know of any precedence for a caster (manifester) Paragon getting actual casting that ALSO adds to +1 CL if they take the class in question. It should be +1 ML or maybe bonus PP for naturally psionic.



In general everything seems a little stronger than it should be. Feels like PATHFINDER level power scaling instead of 3.5. As a matter of fact, this would be nearly perfect in PATHFINDER!

Garryl
2011-09-18, 10:10 PM
Also, you should not just state you have a problem with a specific feature, offer a way to fix it as a suggestion (do not just tell as it is extremely rude)

PEACH: Please Examine And Critique Honestly.

If you don't want people to just critique your work, don't ask them to in the subject line. If you only want constructive criticism, ask for it specifically, but don't expect to have quite as open a discussion or for as many issues to be brought to light (also, humans being as they are, expect to be disappointed by people just stating objections instead of also ways to fix them).

EdroGrimshell
2011-09-18, 10:55 PM
It seems as if you are making a PATHFINDER race and feats not so much 3.5 Your race is given two free feats, and one (or two in the case of Celerity) temporary free feat. Not to mention all the benefits of Living Construct type.

Not what i'm going for, and i should mention you only get 1 feat, you count as having psicrystal affinity for qualifying for stuff while having none of the benefits.

Also the ability bonus being Con and the Paragon Ability being Int doesn't really jive. I can't honestly see a reason for Con being it's + ability but I suppose that's mostly flavor based. On a NORMAL basis the + ability and the Paragon + ability jive.

I was going to originally go with a +2 Int -2 Str because it's supposed to be a "natural born" psion but was told that was too powerful and that switching it to +2 Con and having the Paragon increase Int was the better way to go. Also, if you look at the elf paragon it gives a +2 Int despite the race gaining a bonus to Dex. Exceptions exist for every rule after all.

Tsoreva Mind Blades is just strong as heck. Free Two Weapon Fighting with blades that can never be destroyed and can't be detected until accessed. Seems a little much for a level 1 feat (or a feat at all to be honest).

They count and act as mindblades in every way, meaning they CAN BE DESTROYED, they can just be reformed like a mindblade can. I could split it so you have to take it twice to get a second mindblade and get the benefits of TWF for those specific mindblades which can only act as shortswords.

The Special ability from Natural Cognizance is worded a little oddly. It seems like it says ANY source of cognizance storing. Seeing as how (I assume) the intention is to allow the character to count as a psicrystal for the purpose of (for example) the metamind's ability the wording should be roughly like this:

Special: A tsora is considered his own psicrystal for effects or feats that allow storing power points in a psicrystal (the metamindís cognizant psicrystal class feature for example). The tsora adds this amount gained from that other source to the amount he can store from its Natural Cognizance.

Wrong interpretation. The Tsora race actually already does that, what the feat special describes is that any cognizance based abilities that it could gain from another source (not including gear) like the Creature Capacitor (http://dsp-d20-srd.wikidot.com/creature-capacitor) feat (which would not be added with your interpretation) or the Metamind class feature

Crystal Shards should have Tsoreva Mind Blades as a requirement

I agree here

Ectoplasmic Regeneration.... what?! The Psion/Wilder 3 power Body Adjustment heals 1d12 with an additional 1d12 for every additional 2 points spent. This feat is giving you and MUCH MUCH more powerful heal at level 1. Far too strong for such a feat.

Then what about an Elan's Resilience? i can cut it down to 2 points like the healing touch power from Complete Psionics and another feat to increase it to 4 or 5. Would that work better?

Astral Shaper is too strong aswell. I would increase the cost to "For each additional ability the Power Point cost increases by 2 ((or possibly even 3))". I also may have missed it, but how often can the Astral Shaping racial feature be used? I expected to see something like "times per day equal to half character level" or something similar. Unlimited uses is strong.

2 points would be a better choice i'll admit, but still think that it's not all that bad as is. I actually wish to playtest this thing so i can find out EXACTLY what's too powerful and what needs to be fixed without it just being speculation.

Invested Shaping boggled my mind until I reread it a few times. It's good to go.

Thanks, i should probably word it better though, i got it because i thought of it, i just didn't know exactly how to word it. Suggestions welcome here.

Masters Knowledge is alittle strong. I don't know of any precedence for a caster (manifester) Paragon getting actual casting that ALSO adds to +1 CL if they take the class in question. It should be +1 ML or maybe bonus PP for naturally psionic.

I did that because they originally were psicrystals and would have been exposed to psionics early on. It's mostly a flavor thing TBH but i thought it fit. I could, maybe, just make it give a single power known and some extra power points but i like the feature.

In general everything seems a little stronger than it should be. Feels like PATHFINDER level power scaling instead of 3.5. As a matter of fact, this would be nearly perfect in PATHFINDER!

:smallsigh:
I agree it'd be good for Pathfinder, but it's mainly the feats that seem to be the problem, not so much the race itself. And again you're contradicting the people in the original thread when things were even worse (read OPd) compared to this.

See bolded stuff added in the quote for more details on what i think

This, as well as the Zshar i posted prior to this and a plant race i'll be posting once i finish it, are actually part of a sort of racial project i'm working on with base races that have many racial feats to help customize them. I'll also be doing a Redux of the standard races eventually and adding a large number of racial feats for existing races.

I'm also going to expand racial paragon classes to 5 level classes instead of 3 level classes eventually with ALL of them giving the same thing as master's knowledge, namely giving some kind of casting/manifesting/meldshaping/etc progression (on a 3/5 progression), this version is just a test.

Mr.Bookworm
2011-09-18, 11:05 PM
I was actually told to change the ability scores from my original +2 Int and -2 Str to +2 Con and -2 Cha.

Hm. Why'd they tell you to change it?

EDIT: Because it's too powerful? That's a load of rubbish. +2 Int and -2 Str make it far better for Int-based classes, but +2 Con and -2 Cha make it good for literally any class besides one that needs Cha.


Also, you should not just state you have a problem with a specific feature, offer a way to fix it as a suggestion (do not just tell as it is extremely rude)

Not really. I stated I had a problem with it, and then told you why. If I had just said "this sucks", it would have been insulting, but that's not what I did. It is polite in some places to give suggestions, but I have never heard of it as mandatory.


I realize, but really could you see this as anything other than a living construct?

Nope. Just something to keep in mind when looking at the rest of the race.


Actually this is half what the Kalashtar gain so i don't see the problem here.

That's almost all the Kalashtar gain, though. They get a few other relatively minor bonuses (a couple of skill bonuses, mindlink), but their biggest racial feature is the large amount of pp they naturally get.

This should be more compared to any of the other psionic races that get other racial features.


For 1 minute at a time.

That's quite a bit more combat time than all but the rather extreme outlier points require.

Even for the more utilitarian abilities, that's still situationally useful.


At first level it may seem like a lot but you only get 1 point to spend unless you invest feats into expanding it in which case it'd probably just be easier to take the feat itself.

You get 1 point at 1st level. When you hit 7th level, if you're DM is running the standard combat model of D&D, you can use it for every single combat of the day.

That's assuming, mind you, that you're playing a Fighter or the like. If you're playing a Psion, like the race suggests, you're going to be able to use this substantially more.


Also, powers are actually a bit better in most cases.

Doesn't matter. You get this for free. Comparing it to powers, which require that you take a level in a psionic class, is a fool's game.


The time limit and standard action to use it actually are a balance point against it, you'd need to invest in feats to make this better in which case the feats offset the increased abilities of the Astral Shaping.

The time limit isn't actually a time limit, because almost no encounters last that long. Even for the few things useful out-of-combat, one minute is still useful.

The action required is more of a pain, but with a minute-long duration, the limited ability to pre-buff does exist. Basically, it's not enough of a debuff to make this not-broken.


And you are contradicting what i was told in the original thread once more. I was told the Astral Shaping feature was fine as long as i took out the flight option, and i agree.

People have different opinions.

Basically, this Astral Shaping ability gives you a lot of tools for no cost. It's like a dozen-odd Ps abilities rolled on. Even 1/day, that's still overly good for a LA +0 race.

My suggestion: Pick one ability from the A List, which you can activate by spending a pp (or, alternatively, tone down the rest of the race a bit, and just give it to them permanently). That's still good, but it doesn't strike me as overly good.


You can't be a psicrystal, you just count as a psicrystal for your own feats. If you could BE a psicrystal (and thus gain all the level oriented benefits from it) i would say it'd need an LA, but as of right now, i don't think that's the case.

Not what I was talking about. There are several TO builds that abuse psicrystals, and strict reading of this would probably let you use this as yourself. Doesn't really matter for the purposes of building this race, it just caught my attention.

EdroGrimshell
2011-09-18, 11:47 PM
Hm. Why'd they tell you to change it?

EDIT: Because it's too powerful? That's a load of rubbish. +2 Int and -2 Str make it far better for Int-based classes, but +2 Con and -2 Cha make it good for literally any class besides one that needs Cha.

It was said to be too powerful for Int based casters/manifesters. I will change it though if it helps.

Not really. I stated I had a problem with it, and then told you why. If I had just said "this sucks", it would have been insulting, but that's not what I did. It is polite in some places to give suggestions, but I have never heard of it as mandatory.

I know it's not mandatory but i did ask for ideas on how to make it better.

Nope. Just something to keep in mind when looking at the rest of the race.

I took it into account when i originally made the race.

That's almost all the Kalashtar gain, though. They get a few other relatively minor bonuses (a couple of skill bonuses, mindlink), but their biggest racial feature is the large amount of pp they naturally get.

This should be more compared to any of the other psionic races that get other racial features.

Okay, that is true, but then there's this other race i found that gets it called the Khraan and they get a free power and ML boost with certain powers as well as the ability to take a feat without meeting the (substantial) prereqs. It's from the Dreamscarred Press book High Psionics: Fleshcrafting. I'll cut it down to just 1PP

That's quite a bit more combat time than all but the rather extreme outlier points require.

Even for the more utilitarian abilities, that's still situationally useful.

Eh, some of them are good but they still can only use one at a time unless they invest in something.

You get 1 point at 1st level. When you hit 7th level, if you're DM is running the standard combat model of D&D, you can use it for every single combat of the day.

That's assuming, mind you, that you're playing a Fighter or the like. If you're playing a Psion, like the race suggests, you're going to be able to use this substantially more.

Yes, but psions are not designed for combat like most of the choices are. Psychic warrior gets a good boost from this but not as much as the powers grant. Soulknives actually get the most benefit from this race because of two reasons, 1) the Mind Blade line of racial feats, and 2) the Astral Shaping ability gives the class much needed versatility.

Doesn't matter. You get this for free. Comparing it to powers, which require that you take a level in a psionic class, is a fool's game.

Depends on what class you take, the ones that gain the most benefit are psionic classes

The time limit isn't actually a time limit, because almost no encounters last that long. Even for the few things useful out-of-combat, one minute is still useful.

The action required is more of a pain, but with a minute-long duration, the limited ability to pre-buff does exist. Basically, it's not enough of a debuff to make this not-broken.

I could make it a full-round action to make it more of a balance point.

People have different opinions.

Basically, this Astral Shaping ability gives you a lot of tools for no cost. It's like a dozen-odd Ps abilities rolled on. Even 1/day, that's still overly good for a LA +0 race.

My suggestion: Pick one ability from the A List, which you can activate by spending a pp (or, alternatively, tone down the rest of the race a bit, and just give it to them permanently). That's still good, but it doesn't strike me as overly good.

The abilities are not good enough to warrant picking only one. Maybe limiting it to some of the less troublesome ones (like what i did with flight), but really i do think that the abilities are not good enough to limit it any more when taking into account the other restrictions i have on it.

Not what I was talking about. There are several TO builds that abuse psicrystals, and strict reading of this would probably let you use this as yourself. Doesn't really matter for the purposes of building this race, it just caught my attention.

Eh, I don't know of any that actually abuse psicrystals but i'll take your word for it.

See the Quote for my responses in bold

Deviston
2011-09-19, 12:10 AM
ME: It seems as if you are making a PATHFINDER race and feats not so much 3.5 Your race is given two free feats, and one (or two in the case of Celerity) temporary free feat. Not to mention all the benefits of Living Construct type.

YOU: Not what i'm going for, and i should mention you only get 1 feat, you count as having psicrystal affinity for qualifying for stuff while having none of the benefits.

REPLY: You have features that are VIRTUALLY feats. If you counts as having psicrystal affinity for qualifying for stuff, then you for all intents and purposes have it. You don't blow a feat slot and you qualify for follow on feats. it's nearly better than actually having it.

ME: Also the ability bonus being Con and the Paragon Ability being Int doesn't really jive. I can't honestly see a reason for Con being it's + ability but I suppose that's mostly flavor based. On a NORMAL basis the + ability and the Paragon + ability jive.

YOU: I was going to originally go with a +2 Int -2 Str because it's supposed to be a "natural born" psion but was told that was too powerful and that switching it to +2 Con and having the Paragon increase Int was the better way to go. Also, if you look at the elf paragon it gives a +2 Int despite the race gaining a bonus to Dex. Exceptions exist for every rule after all.

REPLY: +2 Int -2 Str -2 Dex (the dex is from the fact that it was an immobile crystal, or barely mobile with its legs) would be perfect for your race. A small penalty to combat, carrying capacity, AC, and such would be ok for balancing out the +2 Int. If I were to make the race I would certainly do this. Yes the elf paragon has it, always an exception, but it's preferred to stick within the norm whenever available.

ME: Tsoreva Mind Blades is just strong as heck. Free Two Weapon Fighting with blades that can never be destroyed and can't be detected until accessed. Seems a little much for a level 1 feat (or a feat at all to be honest).

YOU: They count and act as mindblades in every way, meaning they CAN BE DESTROYED, they can just be reformed like a mindblade can. I could split it so you have to take it twice to get a second mindblade and get the benefits of TWF for those specific mindblades which can only act as shortswords.

REPLY: heh heh heh, yes they can be destroyed. Reformed next round however, just like the mind blade, so in essence they can't be destroyed forever. Take the +5 flaming death blade of nastiness. SUNDER! What now bud? Anyhow, that's one of the allure points of mind blade, you're never without it for more than a few seconds. I like you suggestion partly. I would say....

Tsoreva Mind Blade [Racial, Psionic]
You access the power of your tsoreva quori spirit to manifest its mind blade.
Prerequisites: Tsora
Benefits: You can transform one of your hands into a blade of psionic energy that deal damage as a short sword. A tsora is automatically proficient with this blade and can fight with it. While this blade is active, you cannot use your hand for any other purpose. This blade otherwise acts like the Mindblade class feature.
Special: A tsora with this feat can enchant these blades as if they were normal weapons. They also gain any enhancements granted to a normal mind blade granted from levels as a soulknife.

Dual Tsoreva Mind Blades [Racial, Psionic]
You access the power of your tsoreva quori spirit to manifest both of its mind blades.
Prerequisites: Tsora, Tsoreva Mind Blades, Two Weapon Fighting
Benefits: You can now transform both of your hands into blades of psionic energy that deal damage as a short sword.
Special: A tsora with this feat can enchant these blades as if they were normal weapons. They also gain any enhancements granted to a normal mind blade granted from levels as a soulknife.


I can't justify giving Two-Wep Fighting for free even if it's just for these blades. It's just too good. These feats are geared for someone who is NOT a Soul Knife. If they are then what's the point of taking these feats. If you give them two wep for free, it'd be like giving it for free with any other weapon. Take Khukri Proficiency with a free Two-Wep. No difference except with your feat your "khukris" can't be destroyed.

ME: The Special ability from Natural Cognizance is worded a little oddly. It seems like it says ANY source of cognizance storing. Seeing as how (I assume) the intention is to allow the character to count as a psicrystal for the purpose of (for example) the metamind's ability the wording should be roughly like this:

Special: A tsora is considered his own psicrystal for effects or feats that allow storing power points in a psicrystal (the metamindís cognizant psicrystal class feature for example). The tsora adds this amount gained from that other source to the amount he can store from its Natural Cognizance.

YOU: Wrong interpretation. The Tsora race actually already does that, what the feat special describes is that any cognizance based abilities that it could gain from another source (not including gear) like the Creature Capacitor feat (which would not be added with your interpretation) or the Metamind class feature

REPLY: Then by your definition, you would gain the benefits of Creature Capacitor twice! Once for the effects of the feat, and a second time from Natural Capacitor. This would be ok with another feat tax like Improved Natural Capacitor to allow a bigger single source pool, but as it stands that's just too much for a single feat to give. This reply was worded oddly I think, if you don't quite understand, say so and I'll take the time to clean it up. I know it's a little weird just reading it myself so....

ME: Ectoplasmic Regeneration.... what?! The Psion/Wilder 3 power Body Adjustment heals 1d12 with an additional 1d12 for every additional 2 points spent. This feat is giving you and MUCH MUCH more powerful heal at level 1. Far too strong for such a feat.

YOU: Then what about an Elan's Resilience? i can cut it down to 2 points like the healing touch power from Complete Psionics and another feat to increase it to 4 or 5. Would that work better?

REPLY: The Elen's Resilience is a reduction of damage, not healing. Other sources can effect healing and make it work better. Also, it's a smaller amount which makes it less attractive in combat. Your ability is VERY attractive in combat as the cap is decently high with the benefits. Level 5 drops 5 pp to heal 25 HP. That's a pittance to keep you alive to fight another day. If you added something like "You can spend no more power points on this feat than half your character level (minimum 1)" that would balance it out GREATLY. I also like dropping it to 3 hp healed and adding a feat tax to increase it to 5 hp healed.

ME: Astral Shaper is too strong aswell. I would increase the cost to "For each additional ability the Power Point cost increases by 2 ((or possibly even 3))". I also may have missed it, but how often can the Astral Shaping racial feature be used? I expected to see something like "times per day equal to half character level" or something similar. Unlimited uses is strong.

YOU: 2 points would be a better choice i'll admit, but still think that it's not all that bad as is. I actually wish to playtest this thing so i can find out EXACTLY what's too powerful and what needs to be fixed without it just being speculation.

REPLY: Yeah cumulative 2 points is a much more balancing factor. The benefits of the racial feature are pretty strong. It's like having a floating feat. Yes it's for a limited time but most combats USUALLY don't last 10 rounds and if they do you just refresh it. Especially if you get the Allocating feat so you never actually spend the points, you just set them in reserve (like the spell caster's Reserve feats kinda). Still asking how many times per day you can use the racial feature, or is it unlimited?

ME: Invested Shaping boggled my mind until I reread it a few times. It's good to go.

YOU: Thanks, i should probably word it better though, i got it because i thought of it, i just didn't know exactly how to word it. Suggestions welcome here.

REPLY:

Astral Shaper [Racial, Psionic]
You can shape multiple traits with your astral shaping ability rather than only one.
Prerequisites: Tsora, Character level 3rd
Benefits: You can spend additional power points to gain another ability available to astral constructs from menus you can access. For each additional ability the power point cost increases by 2 (Ex. first menu A ability has the normal cost, second ability costs 3 extra PP, third costs 5 extra PP, etc.). You may never spend more points on any single menu choice than your character level.

(This is so that a level 6 character for example is limited to three abilities. You still get more than one, but there is a limit more than what your willing to pay. This also covers all menus in one well worded description.)

Invested Shaping [Racial, Psionic]
Instead of expending your mental energy to shape yourself you can invest it.
Prerequisites: Tsora, Astral Shaper
Benefits: While you maintain psionic focus, you can invest a power points into Astral Shaping instead of spending them permanantly for the day. The cost to access these menu abilities does not change. You can only have a number of invested power points equal to your character level. If you lose your psionic focus the points are uninvested and must be reinvested.

That's my suggestion. Cleaned up a little with less dependancy on each feat to describe so much.

ME: Masters Knowledge is alittle strong. I don't know of any precedence for a caster (manifester) Paragon getting actual casting that ALSO adds to +1 CL if they take the class in question. It should be +1 ML or maybe bonus PP for naturally psionic.

YOU: I did that because they originally were psicrystals and would have been exposed to psionics early on. It's mostly a flavor thing TBH but i thought it fit. I could, maybe, just make it give a single power known and some extra power points but i like the feature.


REPLY: I REALLY agree with your suggested fix. A single known power at level one, and two level one known powers at level 3. I can't see that being over powered. To solve the power point issue, I would say give them +1 bonus pp at level 1 and 3, and +2 bonus pp at level 2.

ME: In general everything seems a little stronger than it should be. Feels like PATHFINDER level power scaling instead of 3.5. As a matter of fact, this would be nearly perfect in PATHFINDER!

YOU: I agree it'd be good for Pathfinder, but it's mainly the feats that seem to be the problem, not so much the race itself. And again you're contradicting the people in the original thread when things were even worse (read OPd) compared to this.

REPLY: I can see some things being the way they are for balance (the ability stats) but I just have to fight with the Con bump for the same arguement, balance. More HP's no one can argue, and it does KINDA fit cause it was a hard substance instead of a creature before... I guess it can go either way. But move the -2 Cha to something more punishing. It makes sense role play wise, not used to dealing with folks and all, but I'd personally say +2 -2 -2 is the way to go with a race that has so many features, almost no weaknesses, and Living Construct. IMO.


Ugh... that took a lil bit to finish up. Tell me what you think.

EdroGrimshell
2011-09-19, 12:25 AM
Ugh... that took a lil bit to finish up. Tell me what you think.

Working on the changes now then i will be heading to bedDone.

Deviston
2011-09-19, 01:07 AM
Still a little powered. Good base though. If I use it or allow it in a campaign I would lower the power of several of the feats and racial features. In general, well done.

EdroGrimshell
2011-09-19, 01:22 AM
Still a little powered. Good base though. If I use it or allow it in a campaign I would lower the power of several of the feats and racial features. In general, well done.

Would you mind helping me playtest it as is? Then we can use that to see if it's only OPd in theory or OPd in practice (I've seen examples of ones that are on both ends, UPd in theory but OPd in practice and vice versa) so i'd like to get a read on it.

I actually have a few races i'm making on a similar line (that is to say a base race with racial feats to flesh it out more) and would like help playtesting them. I just want to see, in general, how strong the race itself is.

jiriku
2011-09-19, 01:43 AM
I think tsora psion racial substitution levels would perfectly suit this creature. Perhaps instead of the option to choose a discipline, a tsora psion would automatically be a shaper, and racial sub levels at 1, 5, and 10 would replace the generic bonus feat with some sort of specific benefit, perhaps the ability to use the astral construct power on itself to grant itself more abilities.

EdroGrimshell
2011-09-19, 01:59 AM
I think tsora psion racial substitution levels would perfectly suit this creature. Perhaps instead of the option to choose a discipline, a tsora psion would automatically be a shaper, and racial sub levels at 1, 5, and 10 would replace the generic bonus feat with some sort of specific benefit, perhaps the ability to use the astral construct power on itself to grant itself more abilities.

Sublevels would be interesting, hm, the shaper idea is a good one, though what you suggested is more like just gaining some of the racial feats that are oriented towards the astral shaping ability. I'll finish my Tsora Shardling PrC first then see what i can come up with.

Deviston
2011-09-19, 08:09 PM
I got no probs playtesting. You want me to playtest in my own group, or did have some sort of idea for gaming with you, like skype or something? I don't know what basis you want it playtested on (only core books, all books, third party) but the normal rule set for playtesting (afaic) is all Wizards produced work, no third party.

EdroGrimshell
2011-09-19, 08:36 PM
I got no probs playtesting. You want me to playtest in my own group, or did have some sort of idea for gaming with you, like skype or something? I don't know what basis you want it playtested on (only core books, all books, third party) but the normal rule set for playtesting (afaic) is all Wizards produced work, no third party.

I'd like to play as a tsora alongside some more standard races, preferably with the base 4 person party. Personally i'd go for a psychic warrior with mainly racial feats. Preferably on these forums. Also, on the third party, i happen to like DSP material, it's balanced and it's mainly psionics so it shouldn't be a problem, plus it has an SRD (http://dsp-d20-srd.wikidot.com/home) with most of the feats i'd like to take.

For playtesting, i think starting at level 1 is a good idea, plus it's easier to make a lower level character. Going to 5th level just to see how it goes in lower levels. 32PB would be prefered so that everyone has essentially the same power level when it comes to ability scores.

That sound good to you?