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View Full Version : Help balance this feat please



Ethlandor
2011-09-18, 09:54 AM
Magical Infusion
With the blessing of a God(ess) of Magic your Spell List expands
Prerequisites: Access to the magic domain, True Believer Feat
You may add 3+ your wisdom modifier of spells of a level you can already cast from another class's spell list to yours.
This feat may be taken multiple times to add more spells to your list.

Silva Stormrage
2011-09-18, 12:56 PM
Um, this feat is INCREDIBLY powerful. There is already a feat extra spell that allows you to add 1 spell from another spell's list to your own in complete arcane. This completely blows it out of the water. What are you trying to do with this feat?

Seerow
2011-09-18, 01:02 PM
Magical Infusion
With the blessing of a God(ess) of Magic your Spell List expands
Prerequisites: Access to the magic domain, Caster Level 3rd
Benefit: You may add 1 spells of one level lower than what you can already cast from another class's spell list to yours.
This feat may be taken multiple times to add more spells to your list.





Your original version was way overpowered. This is still arguable overpowered, but at least reasonably so. This is based off of the Expanded Knowledge feat, which is weaker due to the much more limited selection of psionic powers available. Clerics REALLY don't need the boost.


Also, have you considered looking at the Anyspell spell from Spell Compendium? It allows you to use your domain slot from the Spell Domain to prepare an arcane spell 1 level lower.



edit: Missed the above post pointing out there's a feat that already does this in complete arcane. I wasn't aware of that feat, but that's probably what you want to go for.

Silva Stormrage
2011-09-18, 01:30 PM
edit: Missed the above post pointing out there's a feat that already does this in complete arcane. I wasn't aware of that feat, but that's probably what you want to go for.


I actually looked over it and it does the exact same as what yours said. IE Learn 1 spell 1 level lower than the max you can cast.

Gorgondantess
2011-09-18, 01:44 PM
I actually looked over it and it does the exact same as what yours said. IE Learn 1 spell 1 level lower than the max you can cast.

However, it's arguable that it doesn't allow spells from a different class list.

Yitzi
2011-09-19, 04:21 PM
I'd say limit it to wizard spells and limit it to spells that could be cast by a wizard of half your level (rounded up, minimum 1), and say that the key ability for such spells is INT or WIS (whichever is less), and it should be balanced (since you can already cast such spells from scrolls, so the ability to do so from memory isn't that much worse.)

Ethlandor
2011-09-19, 05:58 PM
Magical Infusion
With the blessing of a God(ess) of Magic your Spell List expands
Prerequisites: Access to the magic domain, Caster Level 3rd
Benefit: You may add 1 spells of one level lower than what you can already cast from another class's spell list to yours.
This feat may be taken multiple times to add more spells to your list.



I was specifically wanting true believer feat to be a prerequisite in the theory that the spells granted was a divine favor by a deity of magic to the particularly pious among her devotees. it was meant to give access to spells of a flavor normally outside the access of a cleric.

Seerow
2011-09-19, 06:24 PM
I was specifically wanting true believer feat to be a prerequisite in the theory that the spells granted was a divine favor by a deity of magic to the particularly pious among her devotees. it was meant to give access to spells of a flavor normally outside the access of a cleric.

And what you specifically were wanting is broken beyond even what the cleric and Wizard already are. So the answer to balancing this feat is don't do it.

NeoSeraphi
2011-09-19, 06:32 PM
And what you specifically were wanting is broken beyond even what the cleric and Wizard already are. So the answer to balancing this feat is don't do it.

What? Someone with access to the cleric spell list ignoring normal balance restrictions and freely adding spells from other lists to his casting repetoire? You're calling that broken?

Someone hasn't picked up a copy of Heroes of Horror in a while...

Ethlandor
2011-09-19, 07:02 PM
IF one spell is more in tune with the requirements thats fine. i was guessing in the dark on the number bit. i was saying i liked you idea but wanted to keep True Believer as a prereq and also wanted to know if that changed any ideas on numbers.

Looking over the Extra Spell feat it is what i was looking for. I din't realize spell knowledge was held at such a premium for clerics as they already know the entire cleric list, ah well.

Silva Stormrage
2011-09-19, 11:09 PM
What? Someone with access to the cleric spell list ignoring normal balance restrictions and freely adding spells from other lists to his casting repetoire? You're calling that broken?

Someone hasn't picked up a copy of Heroes of Horror in a while...

The DM has control over what the archivist has access to. The original feat presented here did not have any limits. Also if the DM isn't insane and doesn't let him find divine bard or southern magician based scrolls than he can't learn nearly as much.

NeoSeraphi
2011-09-19, 11:24 PM
The DM has control over what the archivist has access to. The original feat presented here did not have any limits. Also if the DM isn't insane and doesn't let him find divine bard or southern magician based scrolls than he can't learn nearly as much.

Saying the DM has control over what the archivist has access to is like saying that the DM has control over what the wizard has access to. If the DM outright refuses to grant access to the spells the archivist wants to copy and learn, he's taken away the archivist's main reason for playing an archivist instead of a cleric and the archivist is no longer enjoying his class to the fullest.

Seerow
2011-09-19, 11:26 PM
You're right, the Archivist is broken, so let's go ahead and buff everyone up to the level of archivist. In fact, let's use the Spell to Power Erudite as baseline, everyone can have any spell or power with any class!

NeoSeraphi
2011-09-19, 11:29 PM
You're right, the Archivist is broken, so let's go ahead and buff everyone up to the level of archivist. In fact, let's use the Spell to Power Erudite as baseline, everyone can have any spell or power with any class!

Hey I wasn't saying that. I was saying that the precedent existed, and that blurring the line between archivist at the cost of two feats wasn't exactly overpowered. I mean, if he wanted to get more spells on his list, he could be playing an archivist. Since he's not, I don't see what's so wrong with granting him the ability to learn a few arcane spells with two feats. That's two feats the cleric can't use for prerequisites for a Prestige class, Extra Turning, or metamagic. The cleric only gets 7 feats, taking two of them away is pretty devastating and should grant some kind of good return.

Silva Stormrage
2011-09-19, 11:34 PM
Saying the DM has control over what the archivist has access to is like saying that the DM has control over what the wizard has access to. If the DM outright refuses to grant access to the spells the archivist wants to copy and learn, he's taken away the archivist's main reason for playing an archivist instead of a cleric and the archivist is no longer enjoying his class to the fullest.

The DM IS supposed to limit what the wizard can find. Unless you are playing a campaign with Magic Mart and the other players can find whatever they want with ease as well.

I also didn't mean limiting things like druid spells or other divine casters I meant things like obscure domain spell and divine bard type shenanigans.

Also the archivist is still tier 1 despite the fact that it doesn't have the two best cleric class features (Disregarding spellcasting). Domains and Turn Undead. Despite that they are still considered about the same strength.

Yitzi
2011-09-20, 06:14 AM
Saying the DM has control over what the archivist has access to is like saying that the DM has control over what the wizard has access to. If the DM outright refuses to grant access to the spells the archivist wants to copy and learn, he's taken away the archivist's main reason for playing an archivist instead of a cleric and the archivist is no longer enjoying his class to the fullest.

Or he can grant access to "common" spells (giving enough reason to play an archivist), but not all the "uncommon" ones.

And yes, the DM does have control over what the wizard has access to, and SHOULD use that to take broken spells out of play. Just make sure the players know ahead of time what the story is.

Iferus
2011-09-20, 12:05 PM
Magical Infusion
With the blessing of a God(ess) of Magic your Spell List expands
Prerequisites: Access to the magic domain, True Believer Feat
Benefit: You may add 1 spell of one level lower than what you can already cast from one specific spell list to yours. While spells of the level still exist, you may add iterative new spells known from that same list three levels lower than the former spell known. The new spells known are permanent and do not change when you learn higher level spells.
You may add spells of all other class lists; in the case of full casters (classes that gain 9th level spells over the course of ~20 levels), the above rules apply; in the case of other spell lists (such as the bards'), the first spell must be two levels lower than the highest level spell you can cast, and all spells are considered of a level higher than on their regular class list.
This feat may be taken multiple times to add more spells to your list.


I have beefed up the feat a bit, because the requirements are a bit harsher than that of Extra Spell.

Hanuman
2011-09-20, 06:04 PM
I'd make this a feat of the spell Anyspell then go from there.

With the blessing of a Deity...

Also, isn't an infusion a druid supplement system?