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Zombimode
2011-09-20, 05:20 AM
First probably have to disappoint about at least half the people looking into this thread, as this not the next entry in the "Races of X" series dedicated to Warforged.

Rather, Titan is the name for the setting where most of the Fighting Fantasy gamebooks take place. If you have never heard of Fighting Fantasy, well they are from the 80s, but I think there was a relatively recent reprint. Most of them are also available as used books for cheap prices (I own most of the series and have paid about 3 Euros apiece including shipment).*

But enough of this, since knowledge of the gamebook series or its setting is not relevant for the purpose of this thread.

Im about to start a 3.5 campaign in set in Titan and while this setting is a typical fantasy-melting-pot, it has build its own personality over the years. Especialy how some of the races are envisioned is at odds whith their 3.5 representation (and some of them just dont exist properly in D&D, like the Halforc-Halfdrow). Thus the project came to life to completely rework the selection of races available for this campaign.
So keep in mind that the races presented here have to compete only with a few selected SRD races and all the other entries here.
I have about a dozen races in mind. There are actually MUCH more races on Titan appropiate for PCs, but I had to set the limit somewhere.

I will gradually update this posting.

Note: these races will sadly not come with a detailed fluff write-up. Producing a well-written text in english is a rather daunting task for me as a foreign speaker with only average grades in english.


1. Available SRD races

1.1 Humans
The SRD humans are a good fit for the standar civilized humans of Titan. There are actually three other variations of humans (Wild Hill Men, Barbarians, and a general Isolated Human race) that will follow shortly.

1.2 Halflings
They are called "Hobbits" but since SRD halflings are pretty much Tolkien hobbits, they are good enough. Besides, Hobbits rarely make an appearance in the books, so I wont devote much energy on them.


2. Elves

2.1 Mountain Elves

Mountain Elves prefer the high mountains as the seat of their enclaves over the woods. Over the millenia, they have adapted to this harsh life. They are the mast balanced of all elves, but lack in truly special abilities.

Mountain Elves have the following racial traits:

+2 Dex
Size and type: medium humanoid (elf)
Speed: 30 ft. base
Low-light vision (Ex)
Weapon Proficiency: Elves receive the Martial Weapon Proficiency feats for the longsword, rapier, longbow (including composite longbow), and shortbow (including composite shortbow) as bonus feats.
+2 racial bonus on Balance, Climb, Listen, and Spot checks. Mountain Elves may use their Dex mod instead of their Str mod on Climb checks.
Careful Step (Ex): Mountain Elves ignore all penalties of difficult terrain.
Cold tolerant (Ex): Mountain Elves do not have to make Fort saves in cold environments. Under extreme conditions (like a blizzard) they recieve a +4 racial bonus on their fort saves against the effects of such hazards. This ability counts as the Cold Endurance feat for purposes of fulfilling prerequisites of feats and prestige classes.
LA: +0


Desing notes:
Yeah, Mountain Elves may seem like a strange concept, but thats Titan for you. I struggled a bit with the desing, but ultimately settled on the "balanced" aproach. Mechanicaly I think they are interesting for two reasons: 1) a +2 Dex with no drawbacks, and 2) the possibility to play and Elf without a sucky Con.


2.2 Black Elves

Black Elves are the descendents of early Dark Elf clans who rebelled against the more and more sinister path of the Dark Elfs and returned to the surface. Today, Black Elves are a rare ocurance and are weary of all other Elves. To make up for their shortcomings in physique, they have a wide range of skills and often dabble in magicks. You can never be sure what to expect from a Black Elf.

Black Elves have the following racial traits:

+2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Str, -2 Con
Size and type: medium humanoid (elf)
Speed: 30 ft. base
Darkvision (Ex)
Weapon Proficiency: Elves receive the Martial Weapon Proficiency feats for the longsword, rapier, longbow (including composite longbow), and shortbow (including composite shortbow) as bonus feats.
+2 racial bonus on Knowledge (Arcana), Listen, Spot and UMD checks.
Mystic Knack (Ex): A Black Elf gains one of the following benefits:

2 bonus Power Points
Essential Pool +1
Two additional uses of Bardic Music (this ability does NOT give the Black Elf the ability to use the Bardic Music class feature; it just highers the ammount of daily uses of Bardic Music about two)
One additional spell known of 1st level, as well as one additional 1st level spell/day, if the Black Elf casts spells spontaniously. (Black Elf characters who dont cast spells dont gain any benefit from this ability.)

Child of Luck (Ex): Black Elves gain any one luck feat as a bonus feat.
LA: +0


Desing notes:
Black Elves are supposed to be resourceful and mystical. But they are not wizards and I didnt want to make them an ideal wizard race despite their magical attunement. So I gave them a range of benefits for other magical classes. Black Elves should be dabblers and Jack-Of-All-Trades with no clearly laid out path (with the exeption of Bards, but since Bards ARE dabblers and hybrids, thats ok).
They also function to knudge my players in the direction of classes and sourcebooks I like :smallamused:


2.3 Wood Elves

Wood Elves are the most common elf species normaly encountered. They are a bit paradox: on the one hand, they are very protective of the hidden enclaves in the wood an rather xenophobe concerning strangers in their lands. They also often seem arrogant (especialy concerning other types of elves) since they see themselves as the true descendents of the original Elves. But on the other hand they are also open-minded and curious about the world and other cultures. They are known for their strong connection to the spirits and gods they worship, as well as their unmatched archery skills.

Wood Elves have the following racial traits:

+2 Dex, +2 Wis, -2 Con, -2 Cha
Size and type: medium humanoid (elf)
Speed: 30 ft. base
Low-light Vision (Ex)
Weapon Proficiency: Elves receive the Martial Weapon Proficiency feats for the longsword, rapier, longbow (including composite longbow), and shortbow (including composite shortbow) as bonus feats.
+2 racial bonus on Knowledge (Religion), Listen, Search, and Spot checks. A Wood Elf who merely passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if she were actively looking for it.
Inner Sanctum (Su): Wood Elves can retreat their mind into a dreamwolrd. They retain a faint perception of their actual surroundings, but become completely apathetic. They can enter and leave this state freely (as a standart action). There is no time limit on how long a Wood Elf can remain in the dreamworld, but they suffer from hunger and thirst as normal. A creature in the dreamworld is helpless. Thanks to this enhanced controll over their minds, they recieve a +2 racial bonus on saves against enchantment spells or effects.
Master of Archery (Ex): Wood Elves apply their Dex bonus (if any) on damage rolls on attack with ranged weapons (but not weapon like spells). (This is in addition to any bonus damage through a high Str.)
LA: +0


Desing notes:
You may have noticed the absence of the normal elfs saves bonus on the other two Elf types. The Wood Elfs Inner Sactum ability is otherwise a mostly fluff ability, but the save bonus seemed to be thematicly appropriate, so I decided to make it Wood Elf-only.
Besides this, I dont know if the Wood Elf can stand up in comparsion to the other two elves (or in general). Sure, the archery special is nice and make them the obvious choices for ranged characters. But otherwise they feel a bit bland.



3. Lizardmen

The jungel-empire of Silur-Cha of the Lizardmen is probably one of the most organized and powerful cultures in the world. They have a complex society, that struggles with its inherent contradictions. Politicaly they dont care much about the rest of the world, so their influence is relatively small.
Individuals and small warbands however often travel to the lands beyond. They are famed and feared for their skills as warriors and often end up as well-payed mercenaries.

Low-resolution scan of the otherwise excellent artwork of Alan Longford:
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090205114912/fightingfantasy/images/e/e3/Lizardman.png

Lizardmen have the following racial traits:

+2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Cha
Size and type: medium monstrous humanoid (reptilian)
Speed: 30 ft. base
Ravial Hit Dice: A Lizardman beginns with 2 levels of monstrous humanoid which provide: 2d8 Hit Dice; bab +2; Fort +0, Ref +3, Will +3; 5x(2+Int mod) Skill Points; Class Skills: Balance, Jump, Handle Animal, Martial Lore, Swim; 1 Feat.
+4 racial bonus on Balance, Jump and Swim checks.
Warrior Soul (Ex): Lizardmen gain Martial Study as a bonus feat.
Natural Weapons: Bite (1d6), 2 claws (1d3)
+4 natural armor
Cold Blooded (Ex): In cold climates, Lizardmen are automaticly fatigued (endure elements or similar effects can provide protection against the fatigue). In addition, they recieve a -4 racial penalty on Fort saves against the effects of extreme cold environments.
Heat tolerant (Ex): Lizardmen do not have to make Fort saves in hot environments. Under extreme conditions (like a near the heart of a volcano) they recieve a +4 racial bonus on their fort saves against the effects of such hazards. This ability counts as the Heat Endurance feat for purposes of fulfilling prerequisites of feats and prestige classes.
Swamp adapted (Ex): Lizardmen ignore all penalties of difficult terrain in swamp environments.
Inborn Taint (Ex): At their creation, Lizardmen were touched by Chaos. They have an inborn corruption score of 3, and an inborn depravity score of 1. (You can ignore this. It is part of my rework of the aligment system. It probaly doesnt mean what you think it means. But yes, this is using the Taint system in Heroes of Horror.)
LA: +1


Desing notes:
Yeah, I know. A race with RHD AND LA? But I tried to make the RHD and LA count for someting. They dont lose bab, Martial Study is always nice, the natural armor bonus is meaningful and the natural bite attack is almost like a free extra attack. This is race obviously desinged for melee warriors, and I think the Lizardmen preform well in this role.



4. Dwarvenkind

4.1 Dwarves
Titanian Dwarves are smaller then other D&D-Dwarves. They are also a bit more open minded concerning their choice of habitat. Not all of them live in underground in mountains; some are content with villages in the countryside. Furthermore they are not so focused on axes and hammers as weapons, although those are fairly common. Many of them seem to have a weak spot for ships and boats and are often encountered as boatsmen of some sort.
Other than this, they are Dwarves. What did you expect? :smallamused:

Dwarves have the following racial traits:

+2 Con, -2 Cha
Size and Type: Small humanoid (dwarf). As a Small creature, a dwarf gains a +1 size bonus to Armor Class, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, and a +4 size bonus on Hide checks, but his lifting and carrying limits are three-quarters of those of a Medium character. But see Powerful Build.
Dwarf base land speed is 20 feet. However, dwarves can move at this speed even when wearing medium or heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load (unlike other creatures, whose speed is reduced in such situations).
Darkvision: Dwarves can see in the dark up to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and dwarves can function just fine with no light at all.
Powerful Build: The physical stature of a dwarf lets him function in many ways as if he were one size category larger. Whenever a dwarf is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the dwarf is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A dwarf is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s
special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A dwarf can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature
of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.
Stonecunning: This ability grants a dwarf a +2 racial bonus on Search checks to notice unusual stonework, such as sliding walls, stonework traps, new construction (even when built to match the old), unsafe stone surfaces, shaky stone ceilings, and the like. Something that isn’t stone but that is disguised as stone also counts as unusual stonework. A dwarf who merely comes within 10 feet of unusual stonework can make a Search check as if he were actively searching, and a dwarf can use the Search skill to find stonework traps as a rogue can. A dwarf can also intuit depth, sensing his approximate depth underground as naturally as a human can sense which way is up.
Stability: A dwarf gains a +4 bonus on ability checks made to resist being bull rushed or tripped when standing on the ground (but not when climbing, flying, riding, or otherwise not standing firmly on the ground).
+2 racial bonus on saving throws against poison.
+2 racial bonus on saving throws against spells and spell-like effects.
+2 racial bonus on Appraise checks that are related to stone or metal items.
+2 racial bonus on Craft checks that are related to stone or metal.
LA +0


Desing Notes:
They are obviously just a modified race instead of a new one, so I will shortly discuss the changes:
Size form medium to small and Powerful Build: as Ashtagon has pointed out, Dwarves in Titan are smaller then typicaly depicted in D&D. Small enough that they are in no way a medium creature. I gave them Poweful Build to retain there melee capabilities.

Loss of racial weapon proficiency: since they are not so focused on axes, I didnt want every dwarf NPC running arround with a Dwarven Waraxe (if they would get proficiency with those, there would be no reason not to use them since they are plain better then any other 1-handed martial weapon).

No racial combat boni: there is no special hostility between dwarves and orcs & goblins in Titan. Likewise a special combat training against giants makes no sense in this setting.

Now, Powerful Build is awesome and I dont know if it makes dwarves to strong. But on the other hand, as you may have noticed, the races I desing arent exactly on the weak side of LA+0 :smalltongue:


4.2 Gnomes
It is said that Gnomes are distant relatives of the dwarves, or even some sort of "evolved" dwarven race. If this is true, it would make Gnomes really stand out: whereas pretty much any other race splitted up, evolved and devolved into myriads of subspiecies, dwarves retained there form and racial identity through the millenia - at least until the arrive of the Gnomes. But the gnomes dont bother themselves with questions like that. In fact they often seem very detached from their surroundings. Whether this comes from their superior intelects and a completely different lookout at the world, or just some form of inherent goofyness is unknown.
Gnomish individuals encountered often seem to posses some remarkable magical powers, especialy illusions.

Gnomes have the following racial traits:

+2 Con, +2 Int, -2 Str, -2 Wis
Size and Type: Small humanoid (dwarf). As a Small creature, a gnome gains a +1 size bonus to Armor Class, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, and a +4 size bonus on Hide checks, but he uses smaller weapons than humans use, and his lifting and carrying limits are three-quarters of those of a Medium character.
Gnome base land speed is 20 feet.
Low-Light Vision: A gnome can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. He retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
Weapon Familiarity: Gnomes may treat gnome hooked hammers as martial weapons rather than exotic weapons.
+2 racial bonus on saving throws against illusions.
Add +1 to the Difficulty Class for all saving throws against illusion spells cast by gnomes. This adjustment stacks with those from similar effects.
+2 racial bonus on Listen checks.
+2 racial bonus on Craft (alchemy) checks.
Spell-Like Abilities: A gnome with a Charisma score of at least 10 also has the following spell-like abilities: 1/day—dancing lights, ghost sound, prestidigitation. Caster level 1st; save DC 10 + gnome’s Cha modifier + spell level.
LA +0


Desing notes:
As with dwarves, gnomes are just a modified race instead of a new one.
Changes: the ability mods are a blend of AD&D and D&D 3e. It accentuates their affinity for arcane magic. Does it make them stronger? Yes, probably. Definately more focused, which is intentional. And always remember, Humans are my baseline for the power level I aim for withe these races.
They loose their combat training against kobolds, goblins and giants for the same reasons as with the dwarves. I also removed their ability to talk with a burrowing mammal 1/day, but I dont really care for that. If a player of a gnome REALLY wants to talk to a small animal I would let him do it.



5. Half-bloods

5.1 Half-Elves (remake, a not sucking one)
TBD

5.2 Man-Orcs (half-orc remake)
TBD

5.3 Black Hearts (half dark elf / half orc)
At last, a completely new race. Sadly they are not finished yet.


6. Orcs & Goblins
A remake, but they will come with a system for mutations, that either replaces or supplements the Taint effects in Heroes of Horror. As of now I not sure if I will desing an unique set of mutations for each of the "tainted" races (including Lizardmen), or a one-fits-all system.


7. Hill Trolls
A new race, probably with 3 RHD, no LA. They will probably use a Goliath chasis, but we will see.
Titanian Trolls are nothing like D&D Trolls, and seeing how frequently they are encountered in the books, I have to remake them either way.


8. Isolated Humans

8.1 Wild Hill-Men
TBD

8.2 Headhunters, Pygmies, etc. (need a name for this group)
TBD

Maybe 8.3 Barbarians
They are listed as their own human subspecies, but Im not sure if a mechanical human barbarian subspecies is needed - if only to avoid confusion.



Thats it for now :smallsmile:
What do you think?
Any suggestions?

* There are exceptions though. Find me a copy of Revenge of the Vampire or Knights of Doom for under 120 Euros, and I will give you a cookie.

Zombimode
2011-09-20, 08:02 AM
Posting finaly completed :smallsmile:

Prince Zahn
2011-09-21, 12:00 PM
No offense, but I read of these elves, and I squint.

The mountain elf gets a +2 DEX without strings attached? it's kind of odd, yet not insane, I can't imagine my DM letting me use something like that.

And speaking of odd things my DM won't ever let me play, black elves are next, it does not seem reasonable to get a free spell/music/other, and 2 rerolls every day without at-least any LA.
Consider giving the black elves a +2 LA or perhaps a few limits to these abilities.

The wood elves and lizardmen seem more balanced, not sure about the lizardmen because they begin play with ECL 3(2 hit dice+1LA)

That's my thoughts. that'll be one penny, Please.:smallcool:

Tanuki Tales
2011-09-21, 01:17 PM
No offense, but I read of these elves, and I squint.

The mountain elf gets a +2 DEX without strings attached? it's kind of odd, yet not insane, I can't imagine my DM letting me use something like that.

And speaking of odd things my DM won't ever let me play, black elves are next, it does not seem reasonable to get a free spell/music/other, and 2 rerolls every day without at-least any LA.
Consider giving the black elves a +2 LA or perhaps a few limits to these abilities.

I have to disagree, though that's probably just because I play 3.75 instead of good ol' 3.5 and my opinions are colored that way.

So I won't go into why Mountain Elves are fine unless someone doesn't mind it being not totally slanted for 3.5 xD

As for Black Elves, I don't see anything really deserving +2 LA. Luck feats are very niche and not always very useful. 2 Power Points or 1 Essentia is kind of humdrum and Bardic music for a few extra is also kind of meh since it requires you to be a bard anyways and bards require heavy optimization to not be lackluster. And 1 extra first level spell known and able to be cast? That's like a really crappy reserve feat that you can only use once.

Maybe all that adds up to make the Black Elves +1 LA, but I still see nothing amazing about them.

Ashtagon
2011-09-22, 03:37 AM
Used to be a big fan of the Titan setting.

Humans: I broadly agree, except that I broadly disagree with the SRD human. But a close enough match.

Halflings: I don't recall seeing any of these in Titan tbh, except possibly in the FF 'Monster Manual' (Out of the Pit). But the SRD halfling isn't really a tolkein hobbit. It's more like Yoda bouncing around while high on the Force, but wielding a sling instead of a light sabre. It does need reworking, but as a low-priority.

Dwarf: Agree with SRD dwarf being a good enough match.

Mountain Elf: Maybe check in Frostburn to see what the standard "cold tolerant" races get, and clone that rule? However, it does look a little too good for a LA +0 race. And the blanket ignore difficult terrain rule is a little too generous. That definitely needs toning down.

Black Elf: Again, looks a little too good for LA +0. Maybe change the luck feat to an option under mystic knack, instead of in addition to it. That way, even black elf fighters and rogue can have something going for them (remember, magic use is not a common thing in Titan, for any race).

Woof ELf: Drop the Wisdom bonus and K/religion bonus. These guys aren't particularly religious from what I've read. Certainly not enough to justify making them the go-to race for PC clerics. Compensate by increasing the Perception skills bonus to +4. I'd also give them a +4 bonus on Stealth skills while in forests.

Ashtagon
2011-09-23, 12:48 PM
Just did a bit more reading.

Halflings (or hobbits) do not exist in Out of the Pit and Titan are concerned. I don't think the race actually exists at all in this setting.

Also, Titan dwarves are about a metre tall, making them Small instead of medium size.

Zombimode
2011-09-23, 06:05 PM
Thanks for all your comments :smallsmile:

Added the modified dwarves and gnomes, a list of the races yet to come, and tried to improve my spelling in the OP (probably not too successful).


Now to your points:


No offense, but I read of these elves, and I squint.

The mountain elf gets a +2 DEX without strings attached? it's kind of odd, yet not insane, I can't imagine my DM letting me use something like that.

I dunno. Lesser Aasimar get +2 Wis, +2 Cha, plus some other goodies for LA 0. A +2 Dex race with some situational specials seem not out of place in that light.


And speaking of odd things my DM won't ever let me play, black elves are next, it does not seem reasonable to get a free spell/music/other, and 2 rerolls every day without at-least any LA.
Consider giving the black elves a +2 LA or perhaps a few limits to these abilities.

I hear you, but maybe you are overvalueing the Mystic Knack abilities. They only get one benefit of the four, and some PP, an Essentia point, 2 bardic musics or an additional 1st level spell/slot are nice at low level but dont really change something in the long run. All of those specials are about half a feat (Wild Talent, various Incarnum feats, Extra Music, Precious Apprentice).
Nevertheless I agree with you on the luck bonus. I feels bloated so I cut it back to just a luck bonus feat.


The wood elves and lizardmen seem more balanced, not sure about the lizardmen because they begin play with ECL 3(2 hit dice+1LA)

To be honest, the campaign Im planning will start at ECL 3 so I have no qualms with ECL 3 races.



Maybe all that adds up to make the Black Elves +1 LA, but I still see nothing amazing about them.

Maybe they are more LA +1, but my baseline for power is always the human. And this bonus feat and extra skill point is just so hard to beat. And I dont think the Black Elves have enough synergy to be a clearly better choice for Incarnates, Bards, Sorcerers or manifesting classes than humans.



Used to be a big fan of the Titan setting.

It always nice to see another FF-Veteran :smallsmile:


Mountain Elf: Maybe check in Frostburn to see what the standard "cold tolerant" races get, and clone that rule?
It is. The only thing I've added is the "+4 racial bonus in extreme conditions". The rest is pretty much copy-pasted from the Neanderthal entry (Btw. Neanderthals and Cavemen are also human subraces in Titan. But the Frostburn Neanderthal is a good fit for those.)
But to be honest, I havent read the relevant parts conerning environmental dangers in Frostburn so I dont really know, if this addition makes any sense :smallredface:


However, it does look a little too good for a LA +0 race. And the blanket ignore difficult terrain rule is a little too generous. That definitely needs toning down.

Your concern is noted. The difficult terrain thing is pretty much their only sthick and I feel they should keep it. Its still situational and hinges on the DM (if the DM doesnt bother with difficult terrain, the mountain elf is out of luck).
I will leave them for now, but will definately come back to them for a revision when all the other races are done.


Black Elf: Again, looks a little too good for LA +0. Maybe change the luck feat to an option under mystic knack, instead of in addition to it. That way, even black elf fighters and rogue can have something going for them (remember, magic use is not a common thing in Titan, for any race).
That could be an option. I have to think about it.
The Black Elf is definately on the revison list.


Woof ELf: Drop the Wisdom bonus and K/religion bonus. These guys aren't particularly religious from what I've read. Certainly not enough to justify making them the go-to race for PC clerics. Compensate by increasing the Perception skills bonus to +4. I'd also give them a +4 bonus on Stealth skills while in forests.

Hmm, I based them mainly on their protrayal in Mask of Mayhem and Phantoms of Fear. The wood elves in these books seem to be very shamanistic and mystic. But granted, it may be just this special tribe and not a feature for all wood elves. But since I have no other comprehensive information on wood elves besides those two books (yeah, Redswift and his brother; but the two fit the "archer" type for which the wood elves archery special takes care) I based the race arround them.



Just did a bit more reading.

Halflings (or hobbits) do not exist in Out of the Pit and Titan are concerned. I don't think the race actually exists at all in this setting.

The problem with Out of the Pit is that it only take account for the first 15-20 books or so in terms of monsters.

Check out Trial of Champions, section 37. It comes with an illustration that clearly shows a Tolkienish Hobbit. In this book, the creature calls himself someone from "the Little Folk". If it were for just this odd apearance with no mention of the name "Halfling" or "Hobbit" I would have ignored it.

But then Creature of Havoc comes along, and Hobbits play a rather significant role in the plot of this book (which is btw. excellent; if you have missed it, get a copy NOW; it really one of the best FF titels). And in this book, they are explicitly called "Hobbits". And the illustration at section 390 looks like straight out of the Lord of the Rings movies.


Also, Titan dwarves are about a metre tall, making them Small instead of medium size.

They are definately smaller then the D&D standart, but I doubt the 1m. Yeah I know thats how they are described in The Warlock of the Firetop Mountain, but they appear more "buff" in subsequnt books (like the Trialmaster in Deathtrap Dungeon).
But check out the Dwarf entry in the OP :smallsmile:

Tanuki Tales
2011-09-23, 09:18 PM
Maybe they are more LA +1, but my baseline for power is always the human. And this bonus feat and extra skill point is just so hard to beat. And I dont think the Black Elves have enough synergy to be a clearly better choice for Incarnates, Bards, Sorcerers or manifesting classes than humans.


Erm, I thought I was making it clear that I don't even really see them as an LA+1 race but that I can see how they might just eek out to be one. >.>

Hiro Protagonest
2011-09-23, 09:24 PM
Got an exact copy of Fighting Fantasy: the Warlock of Firetop Mountain as an app (they're all available as apps for 3 dollars) some time ago. Managed to beat the warlock on like, the second try, then died because I didn't have all the keys to the chest. Maybe I should actually write out a map like you're supposed to...

The elf races seem like hobgoblins. Too weak for LA +1, but too strong for +0. Scratch that. They're LA +1. And dwarves get the benefit of small size (AC and attack, plus hide checks) with none of the penalties. Remember SRD dwarves are already considered as strong as humans for warrior-types, maybe even stronger.