Odd exploit in character builder.

[Mystic Muse]

Something odd I've found in the character builder.

I'm creating a new wizard for my 4e game since my Avenger's brain was melted. I was looking through rituals, and I noticed one in the level 11 rituals.

"Dark Gift of the Undying."

The level 11 ritual that can turn people into vampires. It has a market price of 75,000 gold, and so should be able to be sold (And the builder agrees) for 37,500 gold.

Is there anything in the rules preventing this? Not sanity, not my DM, anything within the rules as written. That's all I'm looking for.

[Mando Knight]

...Technically? Nope.

Other than the fact that it's a ridiculously rare and OMINOUSLY EVILTM ritual.

[Mystic Muse]

...Technically? Nope.

Other than the fact that it's a ridiculously rare and OMINOUSLY EVILTM ritual.

Yeah. Which makes me wonder why it's in the character builder as an option for a free level 11 ritual.

[Mando Knight]

It might be the intent of the rules that you can't sell off your free rituals...

[Mystic Muse]

It might be the intent of the rules that you can't sell off your free rituals...

Maybe. And I fully expect my DM to shoot the idea down. I was just curious if this is technically legal.

[Starscythe]

sure, it may be legal within the rules but illegal in society. Just imagine when the local Inquisitor NPC (my Thrane/Silver Flame is loosely based on WH40k Imperium/Ecclesiarchy) succeeds on a few Streewise checks and finds out some new jerk is turning people into vampires. Now you have some fanatical zealots after you doing radiant/fire damage to everything in their way to get to you. Or you anger some Blood of Vol clergy who don't like competition. Now you're being chased by a small undead army. Or my favorite scenario: BOTH HAPPEN! (insert evil DM laughter).

[Mystic Muse]

sure, it may be legal within the rules but illegal in society. Just imagine when the local Inquisitor NPC (my Thrane/Silver Flame is loosely based on WH40k Imperium/Ecclesiarchy) succeeds on a few Streewise checks and finds out some new jerk is turning people into vampires. Not my problem. I'm not the one turning people into vampires.:smalltongue:



Now you have some fanatical zealots after you doing radiant/fire damage to everything in their way to get to you. Or you anger some Blood of Vol clergy who don't like competition. Now you're being chased by a small undead army. Or my favorite scenario: BOTH HAPPEN! (insert evil DM laughter).

I don't plan on actually doing this. Also, undead armies are good for XP.:smalltongue:

[OracleofWuffing]

Which makes me wonder why it's in the character builder as an option for a free level 11 ritual.
Well, it would be kind of cost-inefficient to require a vampire to spend 75,000 gold to make more vampires out of the local serfs. :smalltongue:

[Starscythe]

ok then: vampires, assassins (not necessarily the classes), Litches. Just go with whatever seems scary enough to make it a bad idea. Untill you are in upper Epic teir, there should be someone bigger and stronger than you. Thats who will not like that you are making new vampires.

[WitchSlayer]

I always assumed that you just memorized the ritual so you don't actually have the ability to sell it.

[Mystic Muse]

I always assumed that you just memorized the ritual so you don't actually have the ability to sell it.

Maybe that's supposed to be the idea, but the character builder says otherwise, and I think the book explicitly says that you can't memorize rituals because they're too long.

EDIT: I think it's supposed to be implied, but it's never explicitly said. Oddly, it's still able to be sold in the builder.

Now I'm just kinda confused.

[Reluctance]

PHB1 says that you can sell a ritual book for half the value of the ritual(s) contained therein. RAW all your free rituals go into your spellbook, which should have some unpleasant consequences if you sell it. (You could go silly RAW that insists that, since it's a class feature, you can always pull another one out of your rear. That's more silly interpretation for the sake of silly interpretation than anything else.)

It also says that players selling rituals is dependent on the DM's deciding that a market exists. P. 299. So while it does depend on DM sanity, it has an explicit sanity check built in.

[Starscythe]

OH! you're working under the assumption that the ritual is like a scroll or something that can be added to your spell book or sold off. I thought that you would be selling your services raising people as vampires.

I still don't think whatever good aligned social institutions exist in your campaign would be happy about you selling that...so unless you are doing the whole evil party/"Frak the police" schtick i wouldn't do it.

[Mystic Muse]

OH! you're working under the assumption that the ritual is like a scroll or something that can be added to your spell book or sold off. I thought that you would be selling your services raising people as vampires. Ah, sorry for being unclear.




I still don't think whatever good aligned social institutions exist in your campaign would be happy about you selling that...so unless you are doing the whole evil party/"Frak the police" schtick i wouldn't do it.

I also think a player or two, and maybe the DM would chuck a rulebook at me, and those tend to hurt.:smalltongue:

Okay, not really, but I realize this is incredibly abusive and am not going to be doing it. I just wanted to know whether or not I could.

[Tiki Snakes]

Having and using the ritual is one thing, and largely legal. Expecting to get any kind of NPC level payment for selling it or your services is pie in the sky, however, and should rightly lead to dice-throwing-related injuries.

Unless it's a different ritual than I'm familiar with, though, I thought the Vampire ritual required the caster to already be a Vampire Lord, though?
(Unlike, say, the Lich ritual...)

[Vknight]

No the Vampire Lords have the ritual even if there not spellcasters. And can use it to make normal vampire & vampire lords. (In the original monster manual it says only vampire lords can use it. My character builder does not have that stipulation so they changed it)
Anyone with the 'Ritual Caster' feat can have the above ritual but can only make normal vampires not lords. So you take several penalties including not being able to create 'Vampire Spawn'

That is my reading of it anyway and how I'd rule it.

I'd suggest using the ritual as Vampires are not destroyed by Sunlight but gain the following bonuses.

-Vampire Bonuses-
Resist 10necrotic (15at lvl 21, stacks)
vulnerable 10radiant
regeneration 10 (does not function well in sunlight)
(Encounter)Blood Drain=(Needs combat advantage) Lvl+2 vs Fortitude, 2d12+Cha mod, target is weakened (save ends) spend a healing surge.
(Encounter)Mist Form= Vampire gains insubstantial, fly speed 12, cannot make attacks, can remain in this form for 1hour, or end the effect as a minor action.

Note this is based off of the template for vampires when applied through this ritual. Dm's could change this. I also removed and monster only capabilities. But as far as powers and other abilities go I find it appropriate and equivalent to a Boon(A powerful Boon but a boon none the less). Maybe make some abilities come to the player over time as though there developing as a vampire.

[The Reverend]

Earn some good will by turning it in to a Good aligned organization. Make sure there are at least 5 officials there so they all know it has been received and you dont have to put up with a Captain Evil in their ranks being the only one that knows about it, abusing it, and sending goons to kill I afterward. That is the only way I would let you use it unless u were epic tier.