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Gnorman
2011-09-29, 03:52 AM
The Brawler

HD: d10
Class Skills: Balance, Climb, Craft, Intimidate, Escape Artist, Jump, Knowledge (geography), Knowledge (local), Listen, Profession, Spot, Swim, Tumble
Skill Points: 4 + Int per level (4x at 1st)

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

1st|+1|+2|+2|+0|Archetype, Fight Smarter and Harder

2nd|+2|+3|+3|+0|Lesser Archetype Power

3rd|+3|+3|+3|+1|Elusive Target

4th|+4|+4|+4|+1|Moderate Archetype Power

5th|+5|+4|+4|+1|Faster Than the Naked Eye

6th|+6/+1|+5|+5|+2|Greater Archetype Power, Hammer Fist[/table]

Proficiencies: A brawler is proficient with light armor and simple weapons. He is also proficient with unarmed strikes and natural weapons.

Archetype: At 1st level, a brawler chooses an archetype from the list below. He gains the advantages and abilities of the archetype at the appropriate levels, as indicated in the list. Once made, this choice is final.

Fight Smarter and Harder: At 1st level, the brawler gains either his Intelligence modifier or his Wisdom modifier as a bonus to his AC (whichever is higher) as long as he is wearing light or no armor, unencumbered and not equipped with a shield. This bonus increases by 1 at 3rd level and 2 at 6th level, and applies to touch attacks and when the brawler is flat-footed. He gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat, and his unarmed strikes deal 1d6 bludgeoning damage. This damage increases to 1d8 at 3rd level and 1d10 at 6th. His unarmed strikes may also be enchanted - treat all his unarmed strikes as if they were a single masterwork weapon for this purpose.

Lesser Archetype Power: At 2nd level, the brawler gains the appropriate power for his archetype.

Elusive Target: At 3rd level, the brawler gains both Evasion and Uncanny Dodge. He also adds 10 feet to his base land speed - this bonus increases to 20 feet at 6th level.

Moderate Archetype Power: At 4th level, the brawler gains the appropriate power for his archetype.

Faster Than the Naked Eye: At 5th level, the brawler gains one extra attack in his full attack routine, at his highest base attack bonus. He may also make a full attack action as a standard action or as part of a charge. These abilities only apply if the brawler is unarmed.

Greater Archetype Power: At 6th level, the brawler gains the appropriate power for his archetype.

Hammer Fist: Three times per day, the brawler may choose to inflict maximum damage on one unarmed attack. This ability may be declared after the roll to hit succeeds. The receiving opponent must make a Fortitude save (with a DC equal to the amount of damage dealt) or be stunned for one round.


Archetypes:

Breathstealer

Lesser Archetype Power: A breathstealer gains Improved Grab, and is treated as being one size larger than he actually is for the purposes of grappling.
Moderate Archetype Power: Once per round as an immediate action, a breathstealer can initiate a grapple against an opponent within reach that has just missed him with a melee attack.
Greater Archetype Power: A breathstealer can constrict his opponent for his normal unarmed attack damage, and may use his Improved Grab ability against opponents of any size.


Bruiser


Lesser Archetype Power: A bruiser gains a battlefist, which replaces a hand of his choice permanently. In essence, treat this as a masterwork weapon - it gives his unarmed strikes a +1 bonus to attack rolls and allows them to do damage as if he were one size larger. It may also be enchanted further. The battlefist does not affect his ability to perform dexterous tasks or those requiring fine manipulation. In addition, his unarmed attacks are considered to be cold iron for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction.
Moderate Archetype Power: A bruiser's unarmed attacks are now considered to have reach, though he may still attack adjacent opponents. In addition, his unarmed attacks are considered to be silver for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction.
Greater Archetype Power: As a standard action, a bruiser may make an unarmed attack as a ranged touch attack against any foe within thirty feet that he could normally target with a ranged attack. In addition, his unarmed attacks are considered to be adamantine for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction.


Cenobite

Lesser Archetype Power: A cenobite may Lay on Hands as a paladin of his own level, although the ability uses either Wisdom or Intelligence (whichever is higher) instead of Charisma to determine the amount healed.
Moderate Archetype Power: A cenobite gains blindsight out to 30 feet and a +3 untyped bonus on all Will saves.
Greater Archetype Power: A cenobite may teleport a distance equal to his base speed as a move action. He must have line of sight to his destination. After using this ability, a cenobite may not use it again for three rounds.


Martial Artist

Lesser Archetype Power: A martial artist may initiate maneuvers as a swordsage of his level. His maneuver progression (both known and readied) and recovery mechanics are identical to the swordsage. The disciplines available to him are Diamond Mind, Setting Sun, Shadow Hand, Stone Dragon, and two of the following: Desert Wind, Fool's Grip (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67879), Mental Grip (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138037), Sleeping Goddess (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5408276), or Tiger Claw. In addition, he may use class abilities that normally require him to be unarmed as long as he uses improvised melee weapons (which he is now considered proficient with) or melee weapons that the monk is normally proficient with.
Moderate Archetype Power: A martial artist may add either his Intelligence or his Wisdom modifier (whichever is higher) as a bonus to damage rolls when executing strikes that do damage.
Greater Archetype Power: A martial artist may change stances once per round as an immediate action.


Ravager

Lesser Archetype Power: A ravager's unarmed strikes do damage as if they were one step higher on the brawler's progression - 1d8 at 2nd level, 1d10 at 3rd, and 2d6 at 6th. They also may choose to do slashing damage instead of bludgeoning with their unarmed strikes.
Moderate Archetype Power: A ravager may enter a Whirling Frenzy as a variant barbarian may three times per day.
Greater Archetype Power: If a ravager connects with at least two attacks on a full attack or a charge, he automatically rends his opponent for an amount of damage equal to his base unarmed attack damage plus his Strength modifier. The ravager is healed for an amount equal to the rending damage caused.

gkathellar
2011-09-29, 05:45 AM
Looks pretty good so far, although Faster Than the Naked Eye might be a little much. I can't say I'm terribly enthusiastic about the archetypes so far, though. Acrobat in particular kind of annoys me, while Bruiser and Wrestler both seem pretty bland.

I'm not sure how to improve on the latter two, but I have an idea for the Acrobat. Why not spice it up into a Wuxia-esque kind of archetype, with bonuses to movement skills, optional support for weapons-use and maybe some stuff to emphasize the whole "graceful lethality" thing? Alternately, you could drop the whole Acrobat idea and just go with a more overtly "martial arts" sort of archetype with support for weapons.

Gnorman
2011-09-29, 06:18 AM
Looks pretty good so far, although Faster Than the Naked Eye might be a little much. I can't say I'm terribly enthusiastic about the archetypes so far, though. Acrobat in particular kind of annoys me, while Bruiser and Wrestler both seem pretty bland.

I'm not sure how to improve on the latter two, but i have an idea for the Acrobat. Why not spice it up into a Wuxia-esque kind of archetype, with bonuses to movement skills, optional support for weapons-use and maybe some stuff to emphasize the whole "graceful lethality" thing? Alternately, you could drop the whole Acrobat idea and just go with a more overtly "martial arts" sort of archetype with support for weapons.

Fair points all, and admittedly the archetypes are not very flavorful right now. Naked eye is basically allowing the brawler to flurry as a standard action, something monks should have been able to do ages ago, so I do not think it excessive.

Wuxia is out of scope for my vision of D&D, but I like the graceful warrior angle.

Spiryt
2011-09-29, 06:30 AM
Damn, I just like some of your classes potential, and am just "dissapoint", that D&D doesn't let them you mix them more freely.

Namely, in this case, I like the idea of Wrestler archetype so far, but I was never keen at all on "no armor or weapons" trope in fantasy too.

Anyway, I guess that "constrict" needs some additional entry - if I'm not missing something, basic description of constrict generally only states that damage is listed in creatures entry...

Gnorman
2011-09-29, 07:08 AM
Damn, I just like some of your classes potential, and am just "dissapoint", that D&D doesn't let them you mix them more freely.

Namely, in this case, I like the idea of Wrestler archetype so far, but I was never keen at all on "no armor or weapons" trope in fantasy too.

Anyway, I guess that "constrict" needs some additional entry - if I'm not missing something, basic description of constrict generally only states that damage is listed in creatures entry...

"Normal unarmed damage" for constrict. It is listed in the entry already.

Eldest
2011-09-29, 07:19 AM
Archetype: At 1st level, a sentinel chooses an archetype from the list below. He gains the advantages and abilities of the archetype at the appropriate levels, as indicated in the list. Once made, this choice is final.
Should be brawler.
I'll come back for the archtypes (I don't have much time right now).

Gnorman
2011-09-30, 04:52 AM
Fixed the formatting error listed, please let me know if you find any others.

Bruiser renamed Ravager and given more of a savage fighter, almost Wolverine-like feel to it. Wrestler renamed Breathstealer, and abilities filled out - now it can turn a missed attack into a grapple, judo-style!

Hammer Fist added. My only worry is that a Ravager can now rack on some fairly high damage attacks - four attacks a round (Whirling Frenzy + Faster Than the Naked Eye) and a rend could result in potentially 10d6 + 5x STR damage. Of course, that's if they all connect, and considering that Whirling Frenzy imposes a -2 penalty all around... it might be reasonable.

Also, I added light armor. For funsies. It may prove to be too much, but we'll see.

Gnorman
2011-10-02, 05:42 AM
Added the Cenobite, throwing a bone to those players who like their monks to be a little mystical. Kind of a mish-mash of thematic abilities, but hews closest to the core 3.5 monk as written, with slightly-altered versions of Abundant Step and Wholeness of Body, as well as blindsight.

Barring further alterations, Brawler is complete.

Hanuman
2011-10-02, 03:01 PM
I think NeoSeraphi posted The Brawler base class 3 months back, it'd be good to share insight.

I do like the archetype function, I am implementing something similar in the base class I'm working on.

But honestly, Breathstealer is the only flavor that says "brawler" to me, I do think this class has really solid mechanics, the presentation is superb, and the flavor (while perhaps a little mislabeled) is def. promising.

I do see from the posts that this class has drifted from it's original premise, the name "might" need to be redone but I leave that to you. Also depends on your intended direction.


Acrobat
Aw, I would have wanted to at least see that :smalleek:

Gnorman
2011-10-02, 04:14 PM
I think NeoSeraphi posted The Brawler base class 3 months back, it'd be good to share insight.

I do like the archetype function, I am implementing something similar in the base class I'm working on.

But honestly, Breathstealer is the only flavor that says "brawler" to me, I do think this class has really solid mechanics, the presentation is superb, and the flavor (while perhaps a little mislabeled) is def. promising.

I do see from the posts that this class has drifted from it's original premise, the name "might" need to be redone but I leave that to you. Also depends on your intended direction.


Aw, I would have wanted to at least see that :smalleek:

Yes, the brawler did drift a little bit from the original - the Acrobat was axed early on, but I'm not opposed to creating an archetype based on agility and grace later on down the line. But the brawler is and always has been my own version of the monk, with the flavor altered slightly to divest it of the mystical "Far East" feel that always felt a bit out of place in medieval fantasy. But I feel the name still applies - a drop-down, bare-knuckle fighter who depends on his wits and his reflexes rather than heavy armor or a weapon, a back-alley thug or a professional pugilist. Ravager and Cenobite represent the law-chaos alignment extremes within that category to me.

So basically, I do intend to keep the name, because I think it still applies.

Hanuman
2011-10-02, 05:28 PM
Yes, the brawler did drift a little bit from the original - the Acrobat was axed early on, but I'm not opposed to creating an archetype based on agility and grace later on down the line. But the brawler is and always has been my own version of the monk, with the flavor altered slightly to divest it of the mystical "Far East" feel that always felt a bit out of place in medieval fantasy. But I feel the name still applies - a drop-down, bare-knuckle fighter who depends on his wits and his reflexes rather than heavy armor or a weapon, a back-alley thug or a professional pugilist. Ravager and Cenobite represent the law-chaos alignment extremes within that category to me.

So basically, I do intend to keep the name, because I think it still applies.
Monks are magical, they pretty obviously use chi.

What you're thinking is that you want to make a very specific kind of brawler, one who uses the harmony of anatomy trains rather than individual muscle strength, and the connectivity of muscles as animals grow them rather than stressing the body from repetition on certain load bearing muscles.

Another take would be a shoulderline that instead of harmonizing like a giant tendon worked against each other like a lump of wood, forming an american boxing effect.

Not that it particularly indicates solid flavor, but the trapezius and several other muscles underneath them in the breathstealer illustration indicate a fused shoulderline (unrelaxed), and no monk would have this simply because there's no asian martial art that's survived which celebrates the lack of harmony between the parts of the body, which makes me think that the breath stealer while perhaps the flavor you're looking for is showing a conflict between your wanted flavor and th journey to get there.

I could be wrong, perhaps som more background into what a monk means to you would b helpful =]

Wyntonian
2011-10-02, 09:04 PM
Just for my own personal curiosity, why is the breathstealer not called "grappler" or "wrestler"?

Gnorman
2011-10-03, 01:31 AM
Monks are magical, they pretty obviously use chi.

What you're thinking is that you want to make a very specific kind of brawler, one who uses the harmony of anatomy trains rather than individual muscle strength, and the connectivity of muscles as animals grow them rather than stressing the body from repetition on certain load bearing muscles.

Another take would be a shoulderline that instead of harmonizing like a giant tendon worked against each other like a lump of wood, forming an american boxing effect.

Not that it particularly indicates solid flavor, but the trapezius and several other muscles underneath them in the breathstealer illustration indicate a fused shoulderline (unrelaxed), and no monk would have this simply because there's no asian martial art that's survived which celebrates the lack of harmony between the parts of the body, which makes me think that the breath stealer while perhaps the flavor you're looking for is showing a conflict between your wanted flavor and th journey to get there.

I could be wrong, perhaps som more background into what a monk means to you would b helpful =]

Um, I can't quite puzzle out all of what you said there (the bits about muscle groups confused me), so I'll address what I can interpret.

The brawler is my version of the monk, meaning my version of an unarmed fighter. I'm not incorporating Asian martial arts into this, it's more of a Eurocentric version. Pankration, Greco-Roman wrestling, bar brawling, boxing, et cetera. Like I said before, it's the same niche the monk fills (mobile, lightly-armored and unarmed fighter) without all the mystical fluff (Cenobite excepted, and even then only so far). The monk always struck me as out of place in D&D fluff-wise and so the brawler is my attempt to create the same kind of play style while meshing a little better with D&D (as a side note: the campaign setting I plan on developing for my E6 compendium is heavily based on Roman-era earth, rather than the stock medieval setting).

Don't take illustrations as any kind of indication of fluff beyond "this picture looked cool." The breathstealer is definitely the archetype most directly based on real-world martial arts, though.

Long story short: Brawler is the most appropriate name for the class based on what I want it to be, and I don't plan on changing it anytime soon. But I've included a "mystical" archetype for players who want their unarmed fighter to hew closer to the core Monk.


Just for my own personal curiosity, why is the breathstealer not called "grappler" or "wrestler"?

It was originally called the Wrestler, but Breathstealer sounded cooler to me. It was either that or Pankratiast.

Mangles
2011-10-03, 07:12 AM
Lesser Archetype Power: A ravager's attacks do damage as if they were one step higher on the brawler's progression - 1d8 at 1st level, 1d10 at 3rd, and 2d6 at 6th. They also do slashing damage instead of bludgeoning.


I don't see where the brawler's natural weapon progresses in the table or the text under it. Besides that your E6 stuff is good as always.

EDIT: also grappling is much better in E6 where rings of freedom of movement don't exist.

Gnorman
2011-10-03, 07:40 AM
I don't see where the brawler's natural weapon progresses in the table or the text under it. Besides that your E6 stuff is good as always.

EDIT: also grappling is much better in E6 where rings of freedom of movement don't exist.

Whoops, fixed it.

Hanuman
2011-10-03, 03:59 PM
Ah ok, so this is essentially an unarmed fighter class, makes sense now!

NakedCelt
2011-10-03, 06:58 PM
Sixteen! What is it about the word "brawler"?


... and NeoSeraphi makes fifteen.

(Fifteen what? Fifteen independently created unarmed warrior classes called "the Brawler". The others are here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191111), here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149668), here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6426076), here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45038), here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11110), here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31001), here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3350315), here (cough) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53334), here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26329), here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56408), here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11608), here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39972), here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11783), and here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47103), and there was a sixteenth from a different forum but it's not online any more.)

Eldest
2011-10-03, 08:20 PM
It's more general than 'the puglist', 'the boxer', 'the martial artist', 'the wrestler', et al. and it's catchier than 'the unarmed fighter' or 'that guy who fights with his hands'.

Hanuman
2011-10-03, 08:58 PM
Sixteen! What is it about the word "brawler"?
Post #9 :smallsmile:

Renchard
2011-10-20, 04:18 PM
In regard to the Cenobite:

Shouldn't their Lay on Hands ability be based on Int or Wis, instead of Wis only? Or did you want to force it to be Wis based on pre-existing Monk flavor?

Gnorman
2011-10-21, 02:42 AM
In regard to the Cenobite:

Shouldn't their Lay on Hands ability be based on Int or Wis, instead of Wis only? Or did you want to force it to be Wis based on pre-existing Monk flavor?

I suppose I can support a kung-fu genius archetype, why not? I'll change it to either/or.