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View Full Version : Being a Goody - Now with more badass [Template, PEACH]



Phosphate
2011-10-07, 12:34 PM
Here's a flavorful Template that could be granted by a Solar. Basically, you add this ability to all Solars and roll with it:

True Heightening (Sp): This ability is used as a free action on a target within line of sight. The target must be a good aligned living humanoid with at least 12 base Intelligence that is not hostile towards you. He receives the Shining template, no save or spell resistance (complete immunity to spells still stops this from working, though). The target does not lose the template if he changes alignment, but he does if his base Intelligence drops below 12. You may use this ability only once, ever.


Now for the template. The creature is all around tougher, faster, smarter, and more in line with the Light:

Size and Type: as base creature

Subtype: The creature gains the [good] subtype. This means that it is affected by spells (such as Detect Good, Circle against Good etc) and evil-aligned weapons as if it had a good alignment, regardless of the creature's actual alignment.

Hit Dice: Any racial HD change to d12s. HD from class levels are unaffected, except for those from Paladin and Crusader levels - the base creature gains 2 more hit points from each.

Speed: as base creature + 20 feet. Only land and climb speeds are affected, if base creature has natural burrow, flight, or swim speeds, they stay the same.

Armor Class: as base creature

BaB: as base creature

Attack: A Shining retains all its natural and manufactured weapon proficiencies.

Special Qualities: A Shining retains all the special qualities of the base creature, and adds those to them:

Divine Health (Su): A Shining is immune to magical and mundane diseases of any kind.

Divine Fortune (Su): A Shining is immune to curses of any kind.

Divine Increment (Su): Sacred Modifiers applied to a Shining stack with each other (except when the source is the same, naturally).

Divine Vision (Ex): A Shining always sees everything within line of sight as if it is brightly illuminated, despite actual conditions of illumination. This works like unlimited Darkvision, except with color.

Abilities: +2 Con, +2 Int

Aside from those, a Shining gets 4 points that he can spread however he wants between Con and Int (2/6 or 3/5 or 4/4 or 5/3 or 6/2)

Skills: A Shining gains insight in the behavior and truthfulness of people, and as such always has Sense Motive as a class skill, and adds his Cha mod (minimum 0) to checks made with it.

Feats: as base creature

Alignment: As base creature, can vary and change normally. However, if a Shining has acted outside of his alignment or code (if Paladin or such), he only needs his own genuine will to atone, not any spell or proof of redemption (like geas/quest).

Advancement: as base creature

Special Abilities:

Divine Overseeing (Ex): A Shining has Spell Resistance against divine spells equal to 10 + Character Level. Also, if that opponent uses a divine spell of any kind, once per round, the Shining can cast a Denial as an immediate action. The opponent must roll against the Shining's spell resistance to see if the spell succeeds EVEN IF the Shining is not the target of the spell, and EVEN IF the spell does not normally allow spell resistance.

Also, the Shining has a number of divine spells per day, as many as the spells per day of a cleric of his level, that he can grant to anyone (except himself), as long as said person has the appropriate divine spell slots available. Those spells are chosen from the Good domain, and 2 other domains the Shining choose when he is given this template.

Clarity (Ex): Up to Int mod times per day, as a full round action, the Shining can remove all mind-affecting abilities affecting him. He will be immune to mind-affecting effects for 2 rounds after this, and all Diplomacy, Bluff and Intimidate checks will fail on him for 1 minute.

Transfer Heightening (Sp): This ability is used as a free action on a target within line of sight. The target must be a good aligned living humanoid with at least 12 base Intelligence that is not hostile towards you. He receives the Shining template, no save or spell resistance (complete immunity to spells still stops this from working, though). The target does not lose the template if he changes alignment, but he does if his base Intelligence drops below 12. You may use this ability only once, ever. Also, if you use this ability, you will lose the Shining template, and you may never acquire it again.

Challenge Rating: +2

Level Adjustment: +4

Opinions?

Grod_The_Giant
2011-10-08, 04:07 PM
Also, the Shining has a number of divine spells per day, as many as the spells per day of a cleric of his level, that he can grant to anyone (except himself). Those spells are chosen from the Good domain, and 2 other domains the Shining choose when he is given this template.

Not sure exactly what you mean by 'grant.' If he casts spells as a cleric of his level, this will render pretty much any PC you give the template to overpowered.

Tanuki Tales
2011-10-08, 05:07 PM
Not sure exactly what you mean by 'grant.' If he casts spells as a cleric of his level, this will render pretty much any PC you give the template to overpowered.

He means as a god does to a cleric.

kalminos
2011-10-08, 06:28 PM
Why the requirement of 12 intelligence instead of 10? this would mean plenty of paladins aren't granted access.

Glimbur
2011-10-08, 06:47 PM
Uh... what stops a Solar from sneaking up on a neutral or evil person and dropping this template on them? The [Good] template will cause problems if one is, say, wielding Unholy weapons or similar. You might include language that requires a willing recipient.

Phosphate
2011-10-09, 08:20 AM
Not sure exactly what you mean by 'grant.' If he casts spells as a cleric of his level, this will render pretty much any PC you give the template to overpowered.

It means he can be a patron deity for the purpose of granting spells...but the number of spells he can grant is extremely limited.

Why the requirement of 12 intelligence instead of 10? this would mean plenty of paladins aren't granted access.

Faith-flavored classes are Wis-based because they must have the wisdom to follow their deity's word while ignoring things that would drive them away from it. A Shining does not need worship, himself being a symbol of divinity, so he figures this stuff by himself.

Uh... what stops a Solar from sneaking up on a neutral or evil person and dropping this template on them?

I take it you did not read the ability carefully.

Grod_The_Giant
2011-10-09, 10:11 AM
It means he can be a patron deity for the purpose of granting spells...but the number of spells he can grant is extremely limited.

Not really...


Also, the Shining has a number of divine spells per day, as many as the spells per day of a cleric of his level, that he can grant to anyone (except himself).

So basically, every morning you can give one friend full cleric casting for a day? That... well, it seems perhaps a mite powerful. And by a mite I mean a lot.

And even leaving aside rules questions, this ability doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Solars can't grant spells like a deity, so why can they empower someone to do so?

It is a cool template apart from that, though.

Phosphate
2011-10-09, 10:31 AM
Not really...

Yes really.


So basically, every morning you can give one friend full cleric casting for a day? That... well, it seems perhaps a mite powerful. And by a mite I mean a lot.

No. It doesn't give cleric LEVELS to people. You can grant your cleric spells only to those who already ARE clerics.



Solars can't grant spells like a deity

Which is something I don't really agree with...

kalminos
2011-10-09, 01:28 PM
Would the casting stat still be wisdom, for the cleric spells? how are they granted? for how long? (perhaps the casting stat should be cha, like most 'power from self' abilities.

EDIT: em.. how do spells granted from deities work? I don't remember reading too much on those.

Can the spell resistance be temporarily dropped so the party wizard/druid can bufff you?

Phosphate
2011-10-09, 03:04 PM
No...NO!

The granted spells function exactly as spell granted by deities. Only difference is that, while deities can provide any number of clerics, you're kinda stuck at 2 or 3. And I wouldn't imagine clerics casting from Cha for that matter.

The SR, as any SR skill that ever existed, can be suppressed, yes.

Pyromancer999
2011-10-09, 04:36 PM
I'd say this template is overpowered, but then I'd be just one more person saying that. However, this boolean Java statement should make my thoughts clear:

Overpowered != Badass;

Remember that kids.

Phosphate
2011-10-10, 10:47 AM
LA 3 is LA 3. Remember that kids.

Pyromancer999
2011-10-10, 01:19 PM
LA 3 is LA 3. Remember that kids.

This still provides a lot of benefits beyond LA 3.

Grod_The_Giant
2011-10-10, 02:42 PM
The granted spells function exactly as spell granted by deities. Only difference is that, while deities can provide any number of clerics, you're kinda stuck at 2 or 3. And I wouldn't imagine clerics casting from Cha for that matter.

If you can only grant them to people who are already clerics, there's no real point-- they're getting spells from their deity already, and there's no mechanical reason for a go-between. And from a role-playing perspective, their god might get angry at someone else stealing his thunder, so to speak...

Maybe you could base the ability off Imbue with Spell Ability (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/imbueWithSpellAbility.htm)?

Phosphate
2011-10-10, 03:11 PM
This still provides a lot of benefits beyond LA 3.

Half-celestial is a LA 4 template. Are you seriously saying that this is just as good as that?


If you can only grant them to people who are already clerics, there's no real point-- they're getting spells from their deity already, and there's no mechanical reason for a go-between. And from a role-playing perspective, their god might get angry at someone else stealing his thunder, so to speak...

There are clerics who don't have deities as patrons, but instead believe in concepts. Either way I would not say about ALL gods that they would get mad with a believer getting spells from multiple sources (they are not actually adulating the Shining after all...they could be, though). Also begs the question of why ur-priests are not struck dead in their sleep...

Plus, think about the most readily available explanation of why a cleric would embrace this: "well I made my god angry and I'm too lazy to atone, so I will just have this ol' Shinin' friend of mine kick in with some help".

And...better think of it, I worded it wrong. A Shining can't grant divine spells only to clerics, but to anyone with divine spell slots. So there's clerics, paladins, rangers, druids, theurges, and even bards if playing with variants.

Mangles
2011-10-10, 04:05 PM
Also, the Shining has a number of divine spells per day, as many as the spells per day of a cleric of his level, that he can grant to anyone (except himself). Those spells are chosen from the Good domain, and 2 other domains the Shining choose when he is given this template.


The way it reads right now, you can give the spells to anyone. So this would allow you to give a Druid, Cleric casting equal to your level -3 plus his own casting. This would make this template great on a follower or a cohort. They could give you cleric casting no matter what class you have. It doesn't even say that it is cleric casting so you don't need a high wis score. Someone could have 6 wis and by the wording of this ability gain cleric spells.

If you wanted it to only grant spells to other clerics you need to reword this. On top of that if you don't want it to grant bonus spells than further rewording needs to be done.

Maybe something like.
The shining may grant access to a single domain to any cleric 1/day. This must be a domain that the shining himself has access too. The Domain access lasts for 24 hours and during that time the cleric is able to cast 1 bonus spell of each level from this domain.

jiriku
2011-10-10, 04:20 PM
Yes, it's better than half-celestial. Divine increment, divine overseeing, and divine clarity in particular are all open-ended abilities with the potential to broadly increase a character's power.

The idea that a solar can force someone to accept the template just doesn't sit well with me. Why would a solar have the ability to override someone's wishes in granting the template? Granted, the template offers only benefits, but what if some good-aligned person is suffering from a curse or disease which they believe they deserve? RP-wise, followers of Ilmater in particular might not want to become immune to various forms of suffering. From a meta-game perspective, if an NPC solar goes about liberally bestowing this on PC characters without asking, players may resent the DM for jacking around with their character.

It also makes no sense that immunity to spells would protect from gaining the template, because magic immunity is unbeatable spell resistance against any effect that checks spell resistance, and true heightening bypasses spell resistance because it is supernatural. You could correct this by making true heightening a spell-like ability, though.

Divine Overseeing suffers from cart-before-the-horse syndrome - you don't (and shouldn't) need a swift action to "ready" an immediate action. Instead, immediate actions are always available, but consume your swift action on the following round. Also, you can technically choose, say, Evil and Undeath as your other domains to grant, which probably wasn't intended. You should probably restrict it from granting domains that contain any spell with the [Evil] descriptor.

Pyromancer999
2011-10-10, 07:35 PM
Half-celestial is a LA 4 template. Are you seriously saying that this is just as good as that?

Nope. I'd say it's better.

Phosphate
2011-10-11, 05:43 AM
@Mangle: Read post 15. EDIT: nevermind I rewrote the ability for clarity.

@jiri: If someone doesn't want the template, he can Transfer Heighten it to somebody else. The point is that you don't get a second chance.

Oh, missed that. Yes, I'll change it to spell-like.

For Divine Overseeing, I say it can work both ways, but whatever, will change.
As for the domains thing, keep in mind - Shining don't HAVE to be good, and they don't grant themselves the spells anyway.

@Pyro: Well...if you say so. I'll change it to LA 4.

Mangles
2011-10-11, 07:13 AM
Well at least that is cleared up. Now if your a cleric or other such caster your cohort can grant u a ton of spells but no one else.

Phosphate
2011-10-11, 07:31 AM
To be perfectly honest, It's not really my fault that Leadership exists. My group has it banned actually.

Noctis Vigil
2011-10-11, 07:40 AM
To be perfectly honest, It's not really my fault that Leadership exists. My group has it banned actually.

To be honest, I've never played a D&D game where it wasn't banned outright. I rather get the impression most GMs don't use it or allow it from what I've seen.

This is an OK template, but I'd remove the ability to grant spells if I used it. I'd also make it only gainable by a willing recipient. Other than that, it looks pretty good. I think that would make it LA3, although I must admit I hate the LA system.

Mangles
2011-10-11, 07:41 AM
The thing about homebrew is you have to go on it by RAW and evaluate it that way. No matter how good your intentions are. That's why everyone was such a stickler about the wording of your ability to grant spells. I don't think this is +4 LA and with the ability to give it away if you hate it is really nice if you wanted to give a player a temporary boon.

That said immediate action NOPE your spell doesn't work once per round isn't a weak thing, and not something other classes can pull off. You could effectively lock down a divine caster while still being able to do whatever your class normally does.

The get rid of mind affecting abilities will probably be used the first time one is encountered and cast on your character unless your DM throws a lot of them at you. That said all the other bonuses are small or specific.

To be honest I wouldn't allow players to pick it themselves and would only make it RP/Quest involved. If you have a divine caster it takes more of the spotlight off the player who gets the LA anyway so is a bit of a downer.