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View Full Version : Avoiding Captain Ersatz/Clones of existing fictional characters



Paseo H
2011-10-11, 05:17 AM
Yeah, it's me again. I've borrowed character appearances for my game from time to time, sometimes trying to modify somewhat to feel less cheap about it.

I've really thrown myself for a loop this time:

I come up with a character and name her Saya, I try to find a good appearance for her, end up deciding on a lovely young woman with white hair from a video game, then I find out...

The video game character? HER name is Saya. Not only that, she's a werefox, and I was considering making my Saya a werewolf.

This is probably going to sound really stupid to you all, so be generous and consider it a thought exercise:

How do you make a character more unique even though they have the same name, appearance, and possible other characteristics of another?

gkathellar
2011-10-11, 05:27 AM
"Lovely young woman with white hair who is a werewolf" isn't a very complete picture of a character, unless you're suffering from Only Six Faces (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OnlySixFaces) Syndrome. If you're just talking about appearance: give her wider, deeper set eyes, or a broader jaw, or detached earlobes or make her taller or shorter or broader or skinnier or with bigger hips or thinner hips whatever. If you're talking about personality traits, then give her a different personality.

But honestly, I don't see why you should bother if you like the character you've got. I've played alongside a paladin that was by the player's own admission, "basically Kamina," and that was fine. Unless you or your group has a specific objection to you playing Captain Ersatz, there's no reason to avoid it.

Paseo H
2011-10-11, 05:37 AM
Here's a couple pics for reference.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c225/sword_of_omens/1212828958964.gifhttp://img80.imageshack.us/img80/7176/srwhotnewsefoff5c2oo3.jpg

I guess what really threw me is that she has the same name too. Best I can think of to work around that is have mine use lots of aliases/nicknames, which would have precedent because her mother is the same way. I could just retcon and say "Okay I take it back her name isn't Saya now" but I don't want to do that, hence the thought experiment.

In your example about the paladin, he didn't name his paladin Kamina, right? :p

gkathellar
2011-10-11, 05:57 AM
No, he did not. But then, he was consciously doing it, so that would have been a little too much.

If it's bothering you so much but you feel weird about just changing it, tell your group and either ask what they think or ask if you can switch things up. I don't know why they wouldn't be reasonable about it.

Paseo H
2011-10-11, 06:00 AM
It's a personal thing, really...I never thought my penchant for ersatzes would end up with me accidentally creating a character that literally already existed. :p

But perhaps you're right and I'm overthinking this way too much.

Mx.Silver
2011-10-11, 08:53 AM
It's a personal thing, really...I never thought my penchant for ersatzes would end up with me accidentally creating a character that literally already existed. :p

But perhaps you're right and I'm overthinking this way too much.

You've said yourself that this was accidental so I don't think anyone's going to give you a hard time over it.

Lord Il Palazzo
2011-10-11, 09:37 AM
But perhaps you're right and I'm overthinking this way too much.I'll vote for this. Unless your group has something against ersatz characters and they're likely to think yours is one (that is, they're likely to know of the original Saya) I don't think there should be any problem, especially since you've said it was an accident.

Paseo H
2011-10-11, 09:45 AM
Well, thanks for the support everyone. I guess the problem was that I was thinking from the perspective of an author or something like that, where I would be required legally to have some differentiation.

Quietus
2011-10-11, 09:47 AM
Also, you could try to change things up a little bit by giving your Saya long hair and more than 1/4 of a wardrobe. That might help? :smalltongue:

Paseo H
2011-10-11, 09:55 AM
Hmm...it's possible. Naturally I didn't want to duplicate everything perfectly, but still.

Need to figure out some good outfits, then.

LibraryOgre
2011-10-11, 10:33 AM
Truthfully, I tend to embrace it. Heck, I make it part of my character design process.

Half-elf Thaneborn Barbarian? I originally named him Kull (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kull_the_Conqueror) (so I could use the line "By this axe, I rule"), then switched it to Cathoris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thuvia,_Maid_of_Mars), from ERB's Barsoom books.

Gadgeteer hero in BESM Silver-age one-shot? I not only named him Data (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Goonies) and gave him an improved Pincers of Peril, I also decided that some time between leaving Astoria and showing up in New York, he'd been a companion of a Time Lord, and thus had a sonic screwdriver (from when his Time Lord went on to its next regeneration).

Half-elf thief in Castles and Crusades? Nope, he was an out-and-out Indiana Jones clone, with Primes in Intelligence and Dexterity, and half-elf bonuses to Con and Charisma. Hated snakes, had skills in history and religion, and spoke a number of languages. Even carried a whip. I named him River Phoenix.

(Incidentally, Indiana Jones fits perfectly to the 1e/2e/C&C thief).

Embrace your Captain Ersatz... but don't be slavish to aping your inspiration. Use the character you're aping as a starting point, then develop them. So what if there's Saya the white-haired werefox? Make your Saya the white-haired werewolf, then develop her into her own person. Being a werewolf is probably going to have a lot different impact than being a werefox, especially if you're using the current favor for werewolves being barely restrained killing machines.

Haberdashery
2011-10-11, 10:41 AM
Embrace your Captain Ersatz... but don't be slavish to aping your inspiration. Use the character you're aping as a starting point, then develop them. So what if there's Saya the white-haired werefox? Make your Saya the white-haired werewolf, then develop her into her own person. Being a werewolf is probably going to have a lot different impact than being a werefox, especially if you're using the current favor for werewolves being barely restrained killing machines.

I can't agree with this more. The only problem with a Captain Ersatz is when they are still a Captain Ersatz by the conclusion of the campaign.

QuidEst
2011-10-11, 12:31 PM
I tend to be a bit more careful in avoiding similarities to existing characters, mostly because I enjoy the feeling of having something reasonably unique. Obviously, there's mixed success on that front, and a lot of the time I'll find something close later. I won't argue for or against it, but if you want to differentiate your character, I'm happy to help.

One handy way to make a character stand out is to apply more realism. If she's a werewolf, chances are she's going to get into a lot of fights in that form, which could lead to some odd scars. Consider what sort of background she's had, and extend that logically to what state she'd be in now- mentally as well. Also, one surprisingly rare approach is making her intentionally drab-looking- keep her hair covered up with a cloak, walk with a slump, and so on. That certainly makes sense if she doesn't want to attract attention as a person, which I imagine would be true for most werewolves. Maybe she's disgusted with herself, or maybe it's a really touchy point that she's liable to pick a fight over.

Nerd-o-rama
2011-10-11, 01:27 PM
Ah, Endless Boobs. Good choice in avatar for your character there.

Still, if you wanted to change things, you could always tweak things like giving Saya long hair and making her a vampire instead of a...wait, crap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_The_Last_Vampire).

What I would do in this instance is change the name of the character, but I tend not to be attached to names. Maybe screw around with backstory and personality quirks to make sure they're not identical even if the basic idea is the same, if you're worried about that.

I've played...a lot of Expy characters, especially online. Ultimately, personality trumps appearance and name a thousandfold in terms of making a character your own, so as long as you have your character's personality down to heart, you should be fine.

Ravens_cry
2011-10-11, 01:34 PM
It is OK to take inspiration from iconic characters. There is nothing truly new under the sun and those characters are iconic for good reason. But if you want some originality, mix and match features from different characters. Lets take a classic swashbuckling character, quippy and daring, a Zorro type but tamper that with some hard won wisdom, a mentor. Sure, he knows he can do these things, he knows he's that good, but he cares for his team mates and provides guidance and a voice of reason to others. Sometimes, one must live to fight again if one is to win at all. Maybe some light cynicism about the . . .exuberance of other characters.

Amphetryon
2011-10-11, 03:18 PM
Given the sheer number of fictional characters out there, and the relatively limited number of characteristics available within a given genre, it is all but impossible to make a character without enough similarities to another pre-existing character to notice, assuming the Ersatz is known in the first place.

Attempting to avert this trope wholesale is ultimately going to lead you to more frustration than its worth, I think.

Kyuu Himura
2011-10-11, 03:37 PM
well, looking at the picture you posted, I see a very voluptuous, rather lightly dressed and playful young lady...

Give her longer hair, remove some uhhh... volume, dress her a bit more, change her body language, she's kind of a wolf right?? make her rough and proud rather than flirty and playful... or keep the playful and give her more of an innocent air to herself.

There's really a ton of ways of making a white haired young were-creature lady be an original character, you just gotta work outside the box a little...

The Reverend
2011-10-11, 03:42 PM
i like to take it the "Trope" or Ersatz character as a starting point then do very different things with it.

for example Dark Sun character, Colour Serjeant Thotham Reginald Phillip Ruford Thomas Lucan obviously VERY BRITSH, red coat, pith helmet, pipe, big bushy mustache and chops. Also a Bugbear and a barbarian. Mother was a half giant (goliath), father was a half elf scion of a Sourcerer queen whose mother bestoyed incredible endowments if you get my he only ever got it on with a half giant woman drift. So Thotham is actually a his half giant grandfathers name and Lucan is his half-elf fathers surname.

or my avenger/monk hybrid, i started out with samurai jack then made him jewish carrying a fullblade khopesh.

Dr.Epic
2011-10-11, 03:46 PM
How do you make a character more unique even though they have the same name, appearance, and possible other characteristics of another?

Well, changing the name is pretty simple. Even if you stink at naming characters, they are generators for this sort of thing all over the web. Also, as for appearance, just change minor stuff I guess: complexion, hair color, hair length, change clothing color, add/subtract accessory.

You can always try and given them a backstory completely different from the character. How's that sound?

Paseo H
2011-10-11, 05:29 PM
Well of course she's going to have a different backstory and probably personality too. I say 'probably' because I've played neither Namco x Capcom (where Saya is the Big Bad) or Endless Frontier (I have it, just been lazy), but she will be presumably a better person than that...though I intend for the hero to wrongly conclude that she's a bad person, perhaps as much of a psychopath as her mother, one of the major villains.

Also, "Endless Boobs." LOL that's awesome.

Arbane
2011-10-11, 05:48 PM
Could've been a lot worse - it could've been this Saya (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VisualNovel/SayaNoUta):

http://anime2.kokidokom.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/64c2682a78c3d87511535b204ce4a26a.jpg

(Warnings: TVTropes link above, and yes, that is her shadow.)

Paseo H
2011-10-11, 05:59 PM
Yeah, I listened to a little of the soundtrack and it was pretty scary.

flumphy
2011-10-11, 06:02 PM
Even if you're okay with it, you have to consider the other players. Have any of them played those particular games? If so, having that character around, even if you try to differentiate her, could be immersion-breaking for them even if it isn't for you. I'd check with others to be sure they were cool with it before I went ahead and played such a character, and I'd probably at least change the name if anyone voiced concerns.

Of course, if no one does recognize her from a game or everyone's cool with it, then it's not hurting anyone.