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Ziegander
2011-10-12, 02:04 PM
The Arcane Knight
An attempt at a high Tier 4 / low Tier 3, arcane, Paladin-type, partial caster. Let me know what you think.

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/1192/gnome.png

Alignment: Any
Hit Die: 1d10

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |1st|2nd|3rd|4th

1st|+1|+0|+0|+2|Aura of Anonymity, Smite Magic, Trace Magic|—|—|—|—

2nd|+2|+0|+0|+3|Arcane Grace, Martial Study|—|—|—|—

3rd|+3|+1|+1|+3|Arcane Vigor|—|—|—|—

4th|+4|+1|+1|+4|Battle Casting, Martial Study|0|—|—|—

5th|+5|+1|+1|+4|Magic Weapon +1|0|—|—|—

6th|+6/+1|+2|+2|+5|Arcane Command|1|—|—|—

7th|+7/+2|+2|+2|+5|Martial Study|1|—|—|—

8th|+8/+3|+2|+2|+6|Magic Weapon +2|1|0|—|—

9th|+9/+4|+3|+3|+6|Deceive Item|1|0|—|—

10th|+10/+5|+3|+3|+7|Martial Study|1|1|—|—

11th|+11/+6/+1|+3|+3|+7|Magic Weapon +3|1|1|0|—

12th|+12/+7/+2|+4|+4|+8|Knight's Counterspell|1|1|1|—

13th|+13/+8/+3|+4|+4|+8|Martial Study|1|1|1|—

14th|+14/+9/+4|+4|+4|+9|Magic Weapon +4|2|1|1|0

15th|+15/+10/+5|+5|+5|+9|Imbue Item|2|1|1|1

16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+5|+5|+10|Martial Study|2|2|1|1

17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+5|+5|+10|Magic Weapon +5|2|2|2|1

18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+6|+6|+11|Command & Conquer|3|2|2|1

19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+6|+6|+11|Martial Study|3|3|3|2

20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+6|+6|+12|Spellbattle Weapon|3|3|3|3
[/table]

Class Skills (4 + Int modifier): Climb, Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (Arcane), Ride, Spellcraft, Swim, and Use Magic Device.

Weapon & Armor Proficiency
Arcane Knights are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with light, medium, and heavy armor, and with shields (but not tower shields).

Aura of Anonymity (Su): An Arcane Knight's alignment, his thoughts, as well as the auras of equipment he bears, and the auras of spells he casts, are concealed from all forms of divination spells or effects.

Smite Magic (Ex): An Arcane Knight adds half his Charisma modifier to attack rolls and adds his class level to damage rolls when he attacks a creature that is able to cast spells or use spell-like abilities.

Trace Magic (Ex): An Arcane Knight has the ability to sniff out magic and magic users, in a manner similar to the Scent special ability. This allows him to detect magical auras, and notice the presence of constructs, magical beasts, and all creatures able to cast spells or use spell-like abilities.

A faint aura or a creature with 2 or fewer HD can be picked up within 30ft and pinpointed within 5ft. A moderate aura or a creature with 3-8 HD can be picked up within 60ft and pinpointed within 10ft. A strong aura or a creature with 9-20 HD can be picked up within 90ft and pinpointed within 15ft. An overwhelming aura or a creature with more than 21+ HD can be picked up within 120ft and pinpointed within 20ft.

An Arcane Knight may note the direction to an aura or creature he has picked up as a move action.

An Arcane Knight may track creatures with this ability substituting Spellcraft checks for Survival checks. He may also use Spellcraft to determine the school of magic for each aura he picks up or to identify a spell that’s already in place and in effect.

Trace Magic is not affected by wind direction, by surface conditions, or by water; however it is harder to pick up weaker auras in the presence of stronger ones. He is unable to note direction to weaker auras if they are fully inside the detection radius of stronger auras, and tracking a creature with a weaker aura in the presence of a stronger aura adds +10 to the DC.

Arcane Grace (Su): At 2nd level, an Arcane Knight adds his Charisma modifier to saving throws.

Martial Study
An Arcane Knight gains Martial Study as a bonus feat at 2nd level, 4th level, and every three levels thereafter. These bonus feats are an exception to the standard rule that normally allows characters to take Martial Study only three times. He has an initiator level equal to 3/4 his character level (as Medium BAB progression) and may take the Martial Study feat up to three times in addition to these bonus feats if he desires.

Arcane Vigor (Su): Starting at 3rd level, an Arcane Knight is immune to exhaustion, fatigue, sleep, stunning, and paralysis.

Spells
Starting at 4th level an Arcane Knight masters the art of spellcasting. He learns spells from the Wizard/Sorcerer list and casts spells he knows spontaneously with a caster level equal to 3/4 his character level (as Medium BAB progression). He must have a Charisma score at least equal to 10 + spell level to cast a spell in this way, and the saving throw of any spell he casts is equal to 10 + spell level + his Charisma modifier.

He knows two 1st level spells at 4th level and learns additional spells as he gains levels as shown in the table below.

Spells Known
{table=head]Level|1st|2nd|3rd|4th
4th|2|||
5th|3|||
6th|3|||
7th|3|||
8th|4|1||
9th|4|2||
10th|4|2||
11th|5|3|1|
12th|5|3|2|
13th|5|3|2|
14th|5|4|3|1
15th|5|4|3|2
16th|5|4|3|2
17th|5|4|4|3
18th|5|4|4|3
19th|5|4|4|3
20th|5|4|4|3
[/table]

Battle Casting (Ex): A 4th level Arcane Knight is able to blend his martial prowess with his spellcasting so that they become one. This allows him to cast his spells while wearing any type of armor, to ignore somatic components and material components costing less than 25gp per spell level, and treat any weapon he holds as the focus component of any spell he casts.

Furthermore, he gains Combat Casting as a bonus feat.

Finally, as a swift action he may either cast a spell he knows with a casting time no longer than a standard action, or expend a spell slot to recover a number of maneuvers equal to the spell slot's level.

Magic Weapon (Su): Starting at 5th level, any weapon the Arcane Knight makes an attack with is considered a magic weapon with an enhancement bonus equal to the value listed in the table above. This bonus does not stack with a weapon's existing enhancement bonus, or with the enhancement bonus of ammunition.

Arcane Command (Su): Starting at 6th level, a number of times per day equal to 2 + 1/2 his Charisma modifier, an Arcane Knight can attempt to exert control over magic in the immediate area in one of two ways.

He may spend a usage of this ability to Turn or Rebuke Constructs and/or Magical Beasts as a Cleric of his class level Turns or Rebukes Undead. He chooses whether to Turn or Rebuke with each use, he need not present any sort of holy symbol or focus item, and his alignment has no effect on this ability.

He may spend a usage of this ability as an immediate action to sabotage a spell being cast or spell-like ability being used by any creature you have line of effect to. To do so you and the target creature make opposed caster level checks (1d20 + caster level), but add your Charisma modifier to your check. If you win the target suffers a penalty to its caster level equal to your Charisma modifier for that spell or spell-like ability.

Deceive Item (Ex): Starting at 9th level an Arcane Knight may take 10 on Use Magic Device checks even when threatened or distracted.

Knight's Command (Su): Starting at 12th level, when an Arcane Knight spends a use of his Arcane Command ability, if he successfully sabotages a spell or spell-like ability he may counter it instead.

Imbue Item (Su): At 15th level, an Arcane Knight can create magic items even if he does not know the appropriate arcane spells. To do so, he substitutes a Use Magic Device check (DC 20 + spell level) in place of a required arcane spell he doesn't know or can't use.

If successful, he can create the item as if he cast the required spell. He still needs to know the proper Item Creation feat. If he fails, he cannot retry this check for that spell until he gains a new level. He does not expend the XP or gp cost for making the item; his progress is arrested instead.

An Arcane Knight isn't able to create items that require divine spells with this ability.

Command & Conquer (Su): Starting at 18th level, when an Arcane Knight spends a use of his Arcane Command ability, if he successfully counters a spell or spell-like ability, once during the next hour he may spend a standard action to cast or use that spell or spell-like ability.

Spellbattle Weapon (Su): Starting at 20th level, as an immediate action, anytime you are targeted by, or within the area of, a spell or spell-like ability you may make an attack roll and substitute its result for your AC or your saving throw. Instead, on your turn, when you successfully deal damage to a creature with a weapon you may spend a swift action to target that creature with a Greater Dispel Magic effect as the spell.

gkathellar
2011-10-12, 02:15 PM
It looks alright. Probably about where you want it in terms of power level. But ... I don't know why, but it come comes across as incredibly boring. It hits stuff, and it casts low-level wizard spells, and it has some maneuvers, I guess. I can't think of much else to say about it, all the gish classes lately have probably spoiled me.

So, good but lacking a little something to spice it up.

NeoSeraphi
2011-10-12, 02:20 PM
Wait...he can ignore all material components? Even expensive ones?

The save DC mechanic is interesting. So a 20th level arcane knight can cast up to 4th level spells with a caster level of 15 and a save DC for all spells equal to 17+Cha. However, if he boost his caster level (As is, the arcane knight can take the Practiced Spellcaster feat on himself and get a CL of 19, for example) the DC can start getting unreasonable. Then again, higher DC means that lower level spells are more viable at higher levels, and, aside from phantasmal killer there aren't really any save-or-dies at that level, so I suppose it's alright.

Arcane Command- What is the arcane knight's effective cleric level for his Turn checks? Does his alignment affect whether he Turns or Rebukes? What is the divine focus he must present in order to Turn these creatures?

Ziegander
2011-10-12, 02:31 PM
So, good but lacking a little something to spice it up.

Well, the design was intentionally meant to be just a bit boring. I wasn't trying to reinvent the wheel, and as you noted I was aiming for a relatively "safe" power level. Nothing exciting design-wise, I agree, but I'm hoping it would be fun and effective in play.


Wait...he can ignore all material components? Even expensive ones?

Yep. Right after I just hit my "save edits" button I noticed that. Will be fixing.


Then again, higher DC means that lower level spells are more viable at higher levels, and, aside from phantasmal killer there aren't really any save-or-dies at that level, so I suppose it's alright.

I would hardly consider the save DCs "unreasonable." We're talking about 4th level spells. Taking Practiced Spellcaster to net CL 19 gives him save DCs of 19 + Charisma modifier, exactly what a Beguiler or Dread Necromancer gets for their most powerful spells, only the Arcane Knight is still casting 4th level spells rather than 9th level ones.

EDIT: Meh, I switched it back to 10 + spell level + Charisma modifier. I was worried the class was actually bit more powerful than a Warblade or Crusader because of it's rather strong class features and spells. So, I decided to make the spells less powerful.


Arcane Command- What is the arcane knight's effective cleric level for his Turn checks?

Good point.


Does his alignment affect whether he Turns or Rebukes?

No. Will clarify.


What is the divine focus he must present in order to Turn these creatures?

He need not present a divine focus, or any other sort of focus for that matter. Will clarify.

YouLostMe
2011-10-12, 03:52 PM
It's nice, and I enjoy the simplicity, but there are quite a few dead levels. You could balance them out by moving the Martial Studies around, since those seem to overlap with new spell levels a lot.

Ziegander
2011-10-12, 03:54 PM
It's nice, and I enjoy the simplicity, but there are quite a few dead levels. You could balance them out by moving the Martial Studies around, since those seem to overlap with new spell levels a lot.

Thanks for reminding me of that. I meant to correct that.

EDIT: Okay, dead levels eliminated, and maybe, just maybe, made it a little more interesting.

Noctis Vigil
2011-10-12, 07:40 PM
Wait, he can make any item even if he doesn't know the item creation feat or the spell? Even the Warlock has to know the proper feat to make an item. I'd make it either one or the other; allowing both makes the ability way too strong. This means that this guy could make epic level magic items without ever have taking a single item creation feat, and could do it before level 21. Not saying it needs to be changed, but it would be very highly abusable.

YouLostMe
2011-10-12, 07:41 PM
Pretty OK. The thing that bothers me is the lack of options, really. You're using low-level spells, so they're all going to be buffs and support. You also get maneuvers, but they get outdated as you increase in level, so you'll probably have one semi-useful ability at any time. Other than that, you attack. You attack with nice passive bonuses that help you mess spellcasters up, but you're basically just attacking or using the occasional command.

I'd give this to a new player who is interested in the game in order to show them the ropes, but I'd recommend your Monk or Mageknight to anyone looking for a melee/caster gish.

Ziegander
2011-10-12, 08:22 PM
Wait, he can make any item even if he doesn't know the item creation feat or the spell? Even the Warlock has to know the proper feat to make an item. I'd make it either one or the other; allowing both makes the ability way too strong. This means that this guy could make epic level magic items without ever have taking a single item creation feat, and could do it before level 21. Not saying it needs to be changed, but it would be very highly abusable.

I copy pasted the ability straight from the Warlock.

EDIT: Huh. Apparently I didn't. Sorry about that, Noctis, I'll fix it.

unosarta
2011-10-12, 08:37 PM
Maybe as a higher level ability let him use his smite against creatures with Supernatural abilities as well? That would probably make it much easier to activate. You could only allow it once per encounter, if you worried about balance.

Ziegander
2011-10-12, 08:40 PM
Maybe as a higher level ability let him use his smite against creatures with Supernatural abilities as well? That would probably make it much easier to activate. You could only allow it once per encounter, if you worried about balance.

I wanted the smite to be a fairly minor ability. It'll already activate quite often.

unosarta
2011-10-12, 08:55 PM
I wanted the smite to be a fairly minor ability. It'll already activate quite often.

Not necessarily. My knowledge of most monsters isn't the best, but not that many have spells or spell like abilities, especially at low levels, when his only abilities are the Smite and one martial study, which is available once per encounter.

Also, I would recommend allowing the Arcane Knight to be able to actually gain a recovery method on his maneuvers granted through Martial Study, at least one better than the crappy 1/Encounter way it currently is.

Ziegander
2011-10-12, 09:21 PM
Not necessarily. My knowledge of most monsters isn't the best, but not that many have spells or spell like abilities, especially at low levels, when his only abilities are the Smite and one martial study, which is available once per encounter.

At low levels he's still a melee guy with great AC and a greatsword. That's really all you need to kill stuff and not get killed. It seems like it should be at least as strong as the first three levels of Paladin and more versatile, which I've never heard anyone call weak.

At mid levels the smite will activate commonly, and but stay minor like I wanted. Meanwhile, it should still be a versatile and effective combatant and has options in combat and out.


Also, I would recommend allowing the Arcane Knight to be able to actually gain a recovery method on his maneuvers granted through Martial Study, at least one better than the crappy 1/Encounter way it currently is.

I've been considering allowing him to recover his maneuvers by expending spell slots, but I'm not sure how I want to do it. "Expend a spell slot as a swift action to recover a number of maneuvers equal to the slot's level," that doesn't work for me. Thoughts?

unosarta
2011-10-12, 09:39 PM
At low levels he's still a melee guy with great AC and a greatsword. That's really all you need to kill stuff and not get killed. It seems like it should be at least as strong as the first three levels of Paladin and more versatile, which I've never heard anyone call weak.
That doesn't make it a fun or interesting class, which is, you know, the whole point of a class.
Paladin isn't weak, but it isn't active either. All of the effects of the Paladin are passive, and those are strong, but the other features are not. That is a major problem of the Paladin, and something that this class doesn't really remedy.


I've been considering allowing him to recover his maneuvers by expending spell slots, but I'm not sure how I want to do it. "Expend a spell slot as a swift action to recover a number of maneuvers equal to the slot's level," that doesn't work for me. Thoughts?
Well, considering how few maneuvers you are giving the Arcane Knight, maneuvers equal to the slot's level should be fine.

Ziegander
2011-10-12, 09:49 PM
That doesn't make it a fun or interesting class, which is, you know, the whole point of a class.

:smallannoyed:

I feel like you're equating it being a dry read to being boring in play. It cherry picks maneuvers from any schools, and casts spells from an enormous and incredibly diverse spell list. It fights well and it manipulates magic and has a bone to pick with magical creatures. I'd have to play one to be sure, but I'm confident that it would be plenty fun to play.


Well, considering how few maneuvers you are giving the Arcane Knight, maneuvers equal to the slot's level should be fine.

You're probably right, but I want to think it over a while longer before I add any recovery mechanic. I want the class to be weaker than a Warblade on the whole.

RedWarlock
2011-10-13, 12:11 AM
I think it's a great class. Perfect integration of ToB without dropping a full warblade on an unaccustomed player, and a good variety of spell and special options.

When I get back to a 3.5 game (we've been playing 4e lately) this is going to be an option.

YouLostMe
2011-10-13, 12:27 AM
I'd agree that there's no need to add Supernatural smiting. However, a feat for such a thing would be cool (more variation!)

On the concept of refreshing maneuvers, I recommend giving it something like the warblade or swordsage's recovery mechanic with some annoying contingent like "has to hit someone" or "has to spend a full round", and then say that you can also expend a spell slot to recover all the maneuvers as a swift action. And I mean it when I say all of the maneuvers. Because only one will actually be anywhere near level-appropriate.

Ziegander
2011-10-13, 01:40 AM
Because only one will actually be anywhere near level-appropriate.

Remember that some of the most useful maneuvers are low-level. Moment of Perfect Mind, Sudden Leap, Emerald Razor, Wall of Blades, Iron Heart Surge, White Raven Tactics, etc, etc.

YouLostMe
2011-10-13, 04:13 AM
Remember that some of the most useful maneuvers are low-level. Moment of Perfect Mind, Sudden Leap, Emerald Razor, Wall of Blades, Iron Heart Surge, White Raven Tactics, etc, etc.

I have no refute to this--those are all pretty useful. I don't know, then... but it seems like a good idea to have two methods: time-consuming and free versus quick and expensive.

unosarta
2011-10-13, 10:10 AM
Remember that some of the most useful maneuvers are low-level. Moment of Perfect Mind, Sudden Leap, Emerald Razor, Wall of Blades, Iron Heart Surge, White Raven Tactics, etc, etc.
However, a lot of the strikes still are based on the assumption that the character will be able to switch them out.

NeoSeraphi
2011-10-13, 10:29 AM
However, a lot of the strikes still are based on the assumption that the character will be able to switch them out.

That's why selecting a strike rather than a boost would be sub-optimal. The character isn't a martial adept, he's a warrior who gets multiple Martial Study feats. The Martial Study feat is generally used to pick up boosts, because strikes don't scale with level (and boosts are always useful)

Ruduen
2011-11-20, 03:16 AM
However, a lot of the strikes still are based on the assumption that the character will be able to switch them out.

Don't forget the quick fix involved, though. If you loosen the requirements on the feat, then Adaptive Style could definitely be an option.

Aura of Anonymity seems a little too strong at the moment. I believe similar features use versions of the Nondetection spell, which makes it more difficult to detect. However, something at level 1 that says "Complete immunity to magical divinations from high level casters" seems like a little much.

I'm not too sure about Magic Weapon, to be honest. The main oddity with it is that at level 11, you can get access to Greater Magic Weapon as a spell, and at that stage, it seems slightly redundant. It's still a fairly solid option, though.

Knight's Command could use a little bit of clarification. Just change the wording to something like "Counterspelling", because upon reading it at first, I thought it was something like Spell Reflection. Just mentioning that it's an opposed roll or negation or something is probably enough.

The same goes for Deceive Item. Remember, Use Magic Device's limitation isn't that you can't take 10 in combat. It's that you can't take 10 on it, period. At the moment, it's just phrased slightly awkwardly.

Spellbattle Weapon causes the same confusion for me. I can understand that it's a save/AC substitute for spells. But, the damage/dispel magic part feels like it needs to be separated into a different feature. I'm really not sure why the two are clumped together with an "Instead", since no damage is being dealt for the first use. .