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Kenneth
2011-10-16, 07:46 PM
Hey guys, I foudn the paperwork for an old base class I made that is basically a retooled War Mage into what I think A Warmage should actually be. I deidece to go all out on this oen and add teh randoms fluffs that people put with their base classes like the set up for the classes in the PHB. I hope that this is a good version what the War Mage should have done. I wanted to put a cool picture up here as well, but none of the artists of the pictures ever got back in touch with me, so.. :( anyways. here ya's go. I hope you enjoy!


Info: Battle Mages are the undisputed masters of destructive magic, especially those spells that directly deal damage to a foe. A Battle Mage can, burn, shock, freeze, stun, or smash a foe with arcane power and do so more readily than any other spell caster.

In some cultures Battle Mages are among the most respected of arcane spell casters. In others they are considered wild canons, tolerated only because of their usefulness in times of war. Battle Mages in all nations have a reoputation for being brash, wild, and hot -headed. In truth Battle Mages are no more or less quick to anger than members of any other class. The difference being that when a Battle Mage gets angry, something generally gets blown up.

Adventures: Battle Mages are driven by a desire to learn things not found by in any library or school. They often set out to search through ruins, dungeons and lost cities in hope of finding some scrap of lore that was previously lost. Many also search endlessly to discover what spells are best used against specific creatures. Unlike other arcane spell casters, this information is not simply of academic interest to a Battle mage, for his offensive options are so vast that a Battle Mage needs to know when it is best to have a selection of damaging spells and when just one is sufficient and useful, thus allowing him to leave other spell slots open.

Characteristics: Like most arcane spell users, Battle Mages are defined primarily by the spells they know and how they use them. A careful Battle Mage who prepares his spells thoughtfully is a force to be reckoned with. A truly rash Battle Mage is likely not to live long against capable opponents, even though his death might be spectacular. A Battle Mage has more offensive spells available to them than any other class, which also means they have more ways to go through their spell selection in combat than nay other class. A wise Battle Mage quickly learns what creatures are most resistant to each spell.

Alignment: Battle Mages are usually some form of Chaotic, as the discordant mind is more likely to understand such things as the wild nature of fire and the unpredictable force of thunder. In many ways this sets Battle Mages apart from other arcane spell casters, who tend to be more evenly distributed among the differencing alignments. They can be of any moral code, however, equal number of good, neutral, and evil Battle mages exist.

Other Classes: Battle Mages are among the most powerful But also among the most vulnerable of arcane spell casters. A Battle mage has average hit points, inability to use armor, and few defensive magics. As a result, Battle Mages almost always travel with a group. This allows the Battle mage time and security to cast the spells he needs to destroy his opponents. Battle Mages generally learnt o come good team players, and their high intelligence usually makes them effective leaders.

Role: The Battle Mageís spell selection has already determined his role. He is the ranged magical artillery military troops rely or, or the center of an adventuring companyís offensive arcane might. An adventuring company with a Battle Mage should consider having another spell caster, to compliment the Battle Mageís offensive focus with a more defensive and utilitarian abilities.



{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
1st|+0|+1|+0|+2| Battle Mageís Edge, Bonus Feat, Familiar
2nd|+1|+1|+0|+3|
3rd|+1|+2|+1|+3| Advanced Learning
4th|+2|+2|+1|+4| Sudden Meta Magic
5th|+2|+2|+1|+4| Bonus Feat, Spell Reinforcement
6th|+3|+3|+2|+5| Intense Magic I, Advanced Learning
7th|+3|+3|+2|+5| Sudden Meta Magic
8th|+2|+3|+2|+6|
9th|+4|+4|+3|+6| Advanced Learning
10th|+5|+4|+3|+7| Sudden Meta Magic,
11th|+5|+4|+3|+7| Bonus Feat
12th|+6|+5|+4|+8| Intense Magic II, Advanced Learning
13th|+6|+5|+4|+8| Sudden Meta Magic
14th|+7|+6|+4|+9|
15th|+7|+6|+5|+9| Advanced Learning
16th|+8|+6|+5|+10| Sudden Meta Magic
17th|+8|+7|+5|+10| Bonus Feat
18th|+9|+7|+6|+11| Intense Magic III, Advanced Learning
19th|+9|+7|+6|+11| Sudden Meta Magic
20th|+10|+8|+6|+12|
[/table]

{table=head]Spells Per-Day[/table]
{table=head]Level | 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9
1st | 4 | 2 | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - |
2nd | 5 | 3 | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - |
3rd | 6 | 4 | 2 | - | - | - | - | - | - | - |
4th | 6 | 5 | 3 | - | - | - | - | - | - | - |
5th | 6 | 6 | 4 | 2 | - | - | - | - | - | - |
6th | 6 | 6 | 5 | 3 | - | - | - | - | - | - |
7th | 6 | 6 | 6 | 4 | 2 | - | - | - | - | - |
8th | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 3 | - | - | - | - | - |
9th | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 4 | 2 | - | - | - | - |
10th | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 3 | - | - | - | - |
11th | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 4 | 2 | - | - | - |
12th | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 3 | - | - | - |
13th | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 4 | 2 | - | - |
14th | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 3 | - | - |
15th | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 4 | 2 | - |
16th | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 3 | - |
17th | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 4 | 2 |
18th | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 3 |
19th | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 4 |
20th | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 |
[/table]

Skills
The Battle Mageís class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Knowledge: Arcana (Int), Knowledge: Architecture and Engineering(Int), Knowledge: Planar (Int), Knowledge: Tactics (Int), Profession (Wis), Spellcraft (Int)
Skill Points at 1st level
(2+Int Mod)X4
Skill Points for each additional Level
2+Int mod
Hit Die
1d6
Weapon and Armor Proficiency
Battle Mages are proficient with all simple weapons, in addition they also are proficient with the Hand axe, Short Sword, Long Sword, Battle axe, Short Bow, and War hammer, but not with any type of armor or shield. Armor of any type interferes with a Battle Mageís movements, which can cause his spells with somatic components to fail.


A Battle Mage casts arcane spells which are drawn from the Battle Mageís Limited spell list. A Battle Mage must choose and prepare his spells ahead of time (see below).
To learn, prepare, or cast a spell, the Battle Mage must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a wizardís spell is 10 + the spell level + the Battle Mageís Intelligence modifier.
Like other spell casters, a Battle Mage can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on the above table. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Intelligence score.
Though his Spell List may be limited, unlike a bard or sorcerer, a Battle Mage may know any number of spells off his list. He must choose and prepare his spells ahead of time by getting a good nightís sleep and spending 1 hour studying his spell book. While studying, the Battle Mage decides which spells to prepare.
A Battle Mage must study his spellbook each day to prepare his spells. He cannot prepare any spell not recorded in his spell book.
A Battle Mage begins play with a spell book containing all 0-level Battle Mage spells plus two 1st-level spells of your choice. For each point of Intelligence bonus the Battle Mage has, the spell book holds one additional 1st-level spell of your choice. At each new Battle Mage level, he gains two new spells of any spell level or levels that he can cast (based on his new Battle Mage level) for his spell book. At any time, a Battle Mage can also add spells found in other Battle Mageís, or Wizardís spell books, (provided they are also spells from the Battle Mage spell list) to his own.


Familiar: {Ex} A Battle Mage can obtain a familiar in exactly the same manner as a sorcerer, or Wizard can

Battle Mageís Edge: {Ex} A Battle Mage is specialized in dealing damage with his spells. Whenever a Battle Mage casts a spell that deals hit point damage, he adds his Intelligence bonus (if any) to the amount of damage dealt, this extra damage is of the same type used by the spell. For instance, if a 1st-level Battle Mage with 17 Intelligence casts magic missile, he deals 1d4+1 points of damage normally, plus an extra 3 points of damage due to his Intelligence bonus. The bonus from the Battle Mage edge special ability applies only to spells that he casts as a Battle Mage , not to those he might have by virtue of levels in another class. A single spell can never gain this extra damage more than once per casting. For instance, a fireball deals the extra damage to all creatures in the area it affects. However, if a 3rd-level Battle Mage casts magic missile and produces two missiles, only one of them (of the Battle Mageís choice) gains the extra damage, even if both missile are directed at the same target. If a spell deals damage for more than 1 round, its deals this extra damage in each round. In addition Battle mage gains an addition bonus equal to his Intelligence bonus (if any) to his castings of Mage Armor or any of its incarnation per Battle Mage level. For instance, if a 1st-level Battle Mage with 17 Intelligence casts Mage armor he only gains a +1 bonus to the Mage Armor, only able to get the full +3 when he has reached 3rd-level as a Battle Mage

Bonus Feat: at 1st, 5th, 11th, and 17th level a Battle Mage gains a bonus feat. He may only choose one of the following; any Meta Magic Feat, Reserve feat, or from the following list: Arcane Defense, Arcane Mastery, Combat Casting, Eschew Materials, Greater Spell Focus, Greater Spell Penetration, Martial Study, Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, Weapon Focus.

Advanced Learning: {Ex} At 3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, and 18th level, a Battle Mage can add a new spell to his list, representing the result of personal study and experimentation. The spell must be a Sorcerer/Wizard spell of a level no higher than that of the highest-level spell the Battle Mage already knows. Or any spell of the Abjuration, Conjuration, or Evocation schools. Once a new spell is selected, it is forever added to that Battle Mageís spell list and can be cast just like any other spell on the Battle Mageís list.

Spell Reinforcement: {Ex} at 5th level and every 5th level afterwards a Battle Mage gains a +1 bonus to overcome Spell Reistance, at 20th level this ability allows his to take 10 on caster level checks to overcome Spell Resistance.

Intense Magic: {Ex} By means of this ability the Battle Mage increases the effectiveness of his combat spells. At 6th level any spell cast by the Battle Mage that inflicts damage gains a +1 bonus per die of damage, this extra damage is un-typed and so ignores any and all resistances and immunities. At 12th level this bonus increases to +2 and at 18th level to +3.

Sudden Meta Magic: {Ex} at 4th level and every three levels afterwards a Battle Mage can apply a meta-magic like effect to a spell he casts once per day. This functions as if the Battle Mage had applied the Meta Magic feat on the spell without altering the spellsí level. The following Meta Magic feats are the only ones that can be mimicked with this ability: Empower, Extend, Enlarge, Lingering, Maximize, Quicken, or Widen. Each specific Meta Magic can only be selected with this ability once.

Spell List
0 Acid Splash, Daze, Disrupt Undead, Detect Magic, Electric Jolt, Flare, Light, Ray of Frost, Read Magic.

1st Burning hands, Corrosive Grasp, Chill Touch, Grease, Hail of Stone, Ice Dagger, Magic Missle, Mage Armor, Magic Weapon, Orb of Acid, Lesser, Orb of Cold, Lesser, Orb of Electricity, Lesser, Orb of Fire, Lesser, Orb of Force, Lesser, Orb of Sound, Lesser, Ray of Flame, Shocking Grasp, Sleep, Shield, Sonic Blast, Summon Monster I, Targeting Ray, Wall of Smoke

2nd Battering Ram, Blades of Fire, Blast of Force, Blur, Continual Flame, Combust, Daze Monster, Electric Loop, False Life, Fireburst, Fire Trap, Flaming sphere, Fog Cloud, Frost Breath, Flame Dagger, Darkness, Ice Knife, Melfís Acid Arrow, Miror Image, Pyrotechnics, Protection From Arrows,Resist Energy, Scorch, Scorching Ray, Shatter, Spider Climb, Summon Monster II, Wall of Gloom, Web

3rd Acid breathe Bearís Endurance, Bullís Strength, Catís Grace, Chain Missile, Daylight, Disrupt Undead, Greater, Great Thunderclap, Eagleís Splendor, Fireshield, Foxís Cunning, flame Arrow, Fiend Blight, Gust of Wind, Hailstorm, Haste, Ice Lance, Lightning Bolt, Mage Armor, Greater, Mage Armor, Mass, Magic Weapon, Greater, Ring of Blades, Resonating Bolt, Reverse Arrows, Scintillating Sphere, Searing Light, Sleet Storm, Sound Lance, Stinking Cloud, Summon Monster III, Weapon of Energy

4th Arcane Sight, Blast of Flame, Blistering Radiance, Burning Blood, Defenestrating Sphere, Dragon Breathe, Evardís Black Tentacles, Fly, Ice Storm, Force Missles, Globe of Invulnerability, Lesser, Heroism, Orb of Acid, Orb of Cold, Orb of Electricity, Orb of Fire, Orb of Force, Orb of Sound, Summon Monster IV, Shout, Stone Shape, Thunderlance, Wall of Fire, Wall of ice, Wall of Sand, Wall of Water

5th Arc Lightning, Arcane Eye, Ball Lightning, Cloudkill, Cone of Cold, Cyclonic Burst, Dimension Door, Dispel Magic, Fire Shiled, mass, Fireburst, Greater, Firebrand, Flamestrike, Prismatic Ray, Scry, Shroud of flame, Summon Monster V, Vitrolic Sphere, Wall of Iron, Wall of Force, Wall of Stone

6th Acid Fog, Acid Storm, Anti-magic Shell, Blade Barrier, Chain Lightning, Contingency, Disintegrate, Fireseeds, Globe of Invulnerability, Otilukeís Freezing Sphere, Prismatic Eye, Summon Monster VI, Tenserís Transformation, True Seeing, Waves of Fatigue

7th Delayed Blast Fireball, Earthquake, Finger of Death, Ice Claw, Firestorm, Forcecage, Mordekainenís Sword, Prismatic Spray, Prying Eyes, Power Word: blind Sunbeam, Scintillating Pattern, Summon Monster VII, Stun Ray, Waves of Exhaustion

8th Anti-Magic Field, Bombardment, Dispel Magic, Greater, Horrid Wilting, Incendiary Cloud, Field of Icy Razors, Polar Ray, Lightning Ring, Prismatic Wall, power Word: Stun, Shout, Greater, Storm Rage, Sunburst, Summon Monster VII

9th Black Blade of Disaster, Elemental Swarm, Implosion, Meteor Swarm, Prismatic Sphere, Power Word: Kill, Summon Monster IX, Wail of the Banshee

YouLostMe
2011-10-16, 08:09 PM
Having just quickly looked at this class, I see a warmage. So I'm guessing this is a warmage fix, but with a better spell list.

Of course, I would assume that such a thing means you want a good blasting class. But this class does not appear good at blasting. By looking at the spell list, I see good blasting with the orbs at low level, and then with the classing "win" spells as things go on (daze, web, haste, stinking, cloudkill, walls, prism spray sometimes, acid fog, FoD, PW:Blind, Stun Ray, Waves of Exhaust, PW: Stun, Sunburst, PW: Kill, and Wail).

Also, Cloudkill is at 5th and 6th levels, and it's "Mordenkainen's Sword" not "Mordekaiser's Sword" (Wild guess: do you play LoL?)

In conclusion, this is really a sorcerer with a smaller (though pretty much just as effective) spell list, some situational abilities, and a wonky version of the medium Fort save progression (did you mean to do +8? I've really never seen that before...)

I'm not quite blown away.

Andion Isurand
2011-10-16, 08:19 PM
I made a few changes to the existing warmage that you could adopt.

http://andionisurand.blogspot.com/2011/10/warmage-revisions-and-feats.html

The change to the spells feature allows the warmage advance in a PrC while still adding the occasional spell to their spell list when advancing warmage spellcasting.

Kenneth
2011-10-16, 08:40 PM
yes i do play League of Legends LOL.. ahh, i did not notice that is what I wrote, i had to scoll up and doubel check to see if you were joking :)


I did not want a good 'blasting' class. Its just for me a War mage was supposed to be about War.. and war is more than just launching artillery.

and yes I meant to do the +8. a medium save is somehting I put in my game sbeucase it made no sense that the choices are good or terrible... and to me.. that makes no sense.


EDIT### also just skimming over the class and making snap judgements is typically not fair to any party invovled as you do not get the full extent of whatever it is ans so make uninformed judgements on something and the person being judged suffers form that same unifrmentness as then he/she does not get a fair judgement.

YouLostMe
2011-10-16, 09:52 PM
I finished my look. The class is basically Bonus Feats, Advanced Learning, occasional sudden metamagic and that spell list (The bonus damage is pretty minimal). So I'd say this guy is dancing with the sorcerer balance-wise, considering those bonus feats and extra spells.

However, it doesn't seem "war"-y to me. For a guy in war, I'd expect army rations, improved troop morale, maybe something involving leadership if you're into that, and some sort of AoE/CC effects with the contingency that they don't target certain allies. Here (http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=50032) is a warmage meant to compete with the wizard--I'd recommend using some of the stuff there for reference.

Kenneth
2011-10-16, 10:03 PM
Did you notice what spelsl the Adptive learning allows?

and how is +3 untyped damage per die minimal damage?

thats to me is a pretty hefty sum 378 bonus untyped damage for a metor swarm is to me.. pretty awesome.

NeoSeraphi
2011-10-16, 11:04 PM
Skills: Why does it get Know (Architecture and Engineering)? Just curious. I reread through the fluff and I don't see a real explanation, so I wanted to know if that was just something in your mind that you didn't feel like typing or if you just threw it in there because the original warmage had it or what?

Knowledge (Planar) should be Knowledge (The Planes)

Knowledge (Tactics) is not a skill.

Spellcasting: You have an Int-based caster who prepares spells from a spellbook. It's...interesting, I suppose, but it doesn't really fit the "blaster" mental picture. (For me, when I think "blaster" I don't see an old nerd with a book, I see a 20 something guy holding an orb of fire in one hand and a thunderbolt in the other. Cha-based, spontaneous all the way)

That's just my personal opinion, anyway. Still, with the lore you've presented, a scholarly approach makes sense. (I'm just kind of typing as I read here)

BAB: There is really no reason for this to be Poor. You're a blaster who relies on ranged touch attacks to hit, and you have a very limited, offensive-based spell list. If the bard can get 3/4 BAB, you should too.

Feats: Arcane Preparation is for spontaneous casters only. The fact that he can select Martial Study as a bonus feat here is very interesting, but again, really pushes the idea that he should have at least 3/4 BAB.

Advanced Learning is good. The addition of the abjuration school helps greatly with a bunch of useful defensive spells to complement your blasting.

Intense Magic is nice, and it works with Battle Mage's Edge rather well.

Spell List: It's good. It's really good, but unfortunately you are missing 3 of the best Evocation spells here! Forcecage, contingency and great thunderclap (Spell Compendium).

Sure, you can use Advanced Learning to get all three of those, but if you're a master of evocation, shouldn't you have the best evocation spells from Core already?

All in all, it's a really nice class. I like it. I think you'd have a lot more fun playing it if you had a sweet capstone though! (Capstones make base classes fun!)

If you'd like, feel free to take a look at my warmage fix (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208967) and maybe borrow a few ideas from it.

Kenneth
2011-10-16, 11:20 PM
I thought i had forcecage, contiguency and thunderclap up ther :( dman me LOLOL!!!

and Knowledge Tactics IS a knowledge in my games. you do some roles and it gives you soem cool bonus to you and your allies.. think Knowledge devotion on Crack!

and it gets Knowledge architecture and engireer to best knwo where and how to blast a fortification with its many spells


just becuase a class is INT Based is not all about locking yourself in a room pouring over moldy books and such.

I though Arcane peprtion allowed you to.. oh nvm i totally got it confused with another feat LULZ!!

also Advanced Learning can get you teh cleric SPell Miracle :)

as for capstones.. those are only in my pononf or classes that don't have 6th level+ spells.

for me an average BaB is class that is supposed to be in the thick of the battle up close and personal with the bad guys.. A Battle Mage is only doing that (due to his average HP and lack of armor) when the crap has hit teh fan as his role is suppoed to be 2nd line blasting and battlefield control

also.. I totally left out hsi ability to peirce spell resiatnce :( gonna have to redo this .. dang me

NeoSeraphi
2011-10-16, 11:44 PM
I thought i had forcecage, contiguency and thunderclap up ther :( dman me LOLOL!!!


:smalltongue: Forgetting things is half the reason we ask for PEACH. All of us are human, after all.



and Knowledge Tactics IS a knowledge in my games. you do some roles and it gives you soem cool bonus to you and your allies.. think Knowledge devotion on Crack!


Nice!



and it gets Knowledge architecture and engireer to best knwo where and how to blast a fortification with its many spells


Alright cool. Maybe you should add a line about that in the "Adventuring" section? More fluff only adds to a class, trust me.



just becuase a class is INT Based is not all about locking yourself in a room pouring over moldy books and such.


I agree, and the beguiler certainly doesn't do that. I was talking more about how you call fire into existence, not because you picked up a book and learned how to do it, but you called it with your SOUL! You know? Still, it's just a flavor thing for me.



I though Arcane peprtion allowed you to.. oh nvm i totally got it confused with another feat LULZ!!


No problem. Glad I could help



also Advanced Learning can get you teh cleric SPell Miracle :)


How? Your text clearly states "It must be a spell from the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list".



as for capstones.. those are only in my pononf or classes that don't have 6th level+ spells.


Fair enough.



for me an average BaB is class that is supposed to be in the thick of the battle up close and personal with the bad guys.. A Battle Mage is only doing that (due to his average HP and lack of armor) when the crap has hit teh fan as his role is suppoed to be 2nd line blasting and battlefield control


That makes sense. This is your class after all.



also.. I totally left out hsi ability to peirce spell resiatnce :( gonna have to redo this .. dang me

Abilities that pierce spell resistance are very helpful for blasters! It's good that you had it there to begin with. I hope to see it shine. I suggest adding it in somewhere around 10th level.

Kenneth
2011-10-16, 11:48 PM
Advanced Learning: {Ex} At 3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, and 18th level, a Battle Mage can add a new spell to his list, representing the result of personal study and experimentation. The spell must be a Sorcerer/Wizard spell of a level no higher than that of the highest-level spell the Battle Mage already knows. Or any spell of the Abjuration, Conjuration, or Evocation schools. Once a new spell is selected, it is forever added to that Battle Mageís spell list and can be cast just like any other spell on the Battle Mageís list.


notice the underlined part. any spell that falls into one of those 3 schools :)

while I do not recommend a Battle Mage takign Miracle or Hallow, etc etc. it certainly is a possiblity.

YouLostMe
2011-10-16, 11:48 PM
Did you notice what spelsl the Adptive learning allows?Yes, which will bring it up to par with the Sorcerer over time, but not surpass it. The sorcerer gets ALL good spells if it wants them.


and how is +3 untyped damage per die minimal damage?

thats to me is a pretty hefty sum 378 bonus untyped damage for a metor swarm is to me.. pretty awesome. Erm... let's look at that a little bit more closely.

2d6 damage per meteor if it hits. That's 8d6 if they all hit the same creature--assuming again that all of them hit and the monster has no DR or buffs to avoid it, you're dealing 28+24=52 damage.

Then each fire burst deals 6d6. First, that's fire damage, and so will be resisted. Second, reflex saves and evasion. Assuming that they don't pass the reflex saves and don't just ignore the damage and don't have any resistances, then you're dealing 84+72=156 damage.

The total, assuming all those things are true is 208 damage. That's kind of not awesome. Assuming a monster gets hit four times, has no resistances, and passes none of its saves. You haven't even reduced the lowest-HP CR 18 creature (Nightcrawler) to 0. Seriously. And that thing can take you down with only one save (finger of death or any of the other SLAs/casting it carries around).

And than "Intense Magic" ability is running at +3 when you're level eighteen. At level 6, your fireball does a whole extra 6 damage. Ka-boom, watch those sparks fly.

NeoSeraphi
2011-10-16, 11:51 PM
Erm... let's look at that a little bit more closely.

2d6 damage per meteor if it hits. That's 8d6 if they all hit the same creature--assuming again that all of them hit and the monster has no DR or buffs to avoid it, you're dealing 28+24=52 damage.

Then each fire burst deals 6d6. First, that's fire damage, and so will be resisted. Second, reflex saves and evasion. Assuming that they don't pass the reflex saves and don't just ignore the damage and don't have any resistances, then you're dealing 84+72=156 damage.

The total, assuming all those things are true is 208 damage. That's kind of not awesome. Assuming a monster gets hit four times, has no resistances, and passes none of its saves. You haven't even reduced the lowest-HP CR 18 creature (Nightcrawler) to 0. Seriously. And that thing can take you down with only one save (finger of death or any of the other SLAs/casting it carries around).

And than "Intense Magic" ability is running at +3 when you're level eighteen. At level 6, your fireball does a whole extra 6 damage. Ka-boom, watch those sparks fly.

Er...to be fair, that's just because meteor swarm is a terrible excuse of a 9th level spell, isn't it? You shouldn't blame the homebrewer for that.

Kenneth
2011-10-17, 12:25 AM
Ok lets take a look at DIsintegrate then shall we? at lvl 18 is does 36D6 dmg+ you int bonus which should be about +8 then you add your intesne spell in that does 36X3 unresitable dmg ( i.e there is no way to avoid that)108

so lets just take the average dmg for that 119+8+108= 225 dmg. oh lookie the nightcralwer is dead.

no you take into account all those crazy meta magic rule braks in place and cast fireball twice with twined spell added on yru lingering spell sudden meta magic.plus some other crazy metas and pow you are doing A TON of damage.

and who said that I wnated to 'suprass' the sorcerer in power? I am pretty sure that I never once mentioned that in any of my posts..


also I guess I never reaized how crap meteror swarm is in 3rd ediotn.. it was soo much better back in 2nd.. i guess now is the time to emntion we use the 2nd edition version so you camn take up to 160d4 dmg if the center is focused on you.... lets see 160X3 is 480. so thats is pretty awesome of a damage spell.

YouLostMe
2011-10-17, 01:00 AM
Ok lets take a look at DIsintegrate then shall we? at lvl 18 is does 36D6 dmg+ you int bonus which should be about +8 then you add your intesne spell in that does 36X3 unresitable dmg ( i.e there is no way to avoid that)108

so lets just take the average dmg for that 119+8+108= 225 dmg. oh lookie the nightcralwer is dead.

no you take into account all those crazy meta magic rule braks in place and cast fireball twice with twined spell added on yru lingering spell sudden meta magic.plus some other crazy metas and pow you are doing A TON of damage.
Yes, let us look at disintegrate. You deal 36d6(average 126) plus 8 Int (sure, why not?) plus (36x3=108) for 242 damage, actually. Now, that's cool, and I would be proud to pull that off. In fact, if we want to make that level-appropriate, why not burn a feat and take empower spell? Empowered disintegrate deals 18/level damage, for 324.

But you still can't kill the Nightcrawler. Because it's CR 18, and one of it's resistances is immunity to Fortitude Saves. If found some way to avert that, it could still roll a Fort Save, or maybe your ray won't hit (you're stacking high Int, decent Con, and Dex probably comes third. With low BAB don't expect to do very well there). Oh, and Spell Resistance 31 (without any boost, 40% chance to hit). Not looking so hot.

As a caster, you'd rather use Wail of the Banshee or implosionfor the same effect (killing them) without wasting time of a ray, or summon monster IX to summon something like a Leonal that can fight for you. The blasting does come in handy for weaker blasting spells that can narrow down a target's HP before you cast power word: kill, but you'll notice that the big boys are the non-blasters. And that's why the +damage is weak.


and who said that I wnated to 'suprass' the sorcerer in power? I am pretty sure that I never once mentioned that in any of my posts..
It seemed implied. Since my comment about "dancing near the sorcerer", the tone of your refutes seemed to advocate for teh ultimate powurz of your class. I apologize if this was what I heard and not what you meant.

And if you've modified a spell, then I can't really critique your class. Most people probably won't play with your 2e-version of meteor swarm, and so having a single homebrew spell to justify your class is bad. I'm also going to mention here that each and every meteor needs to hit for the bludgeoning bonus and needs to deal completely uninhibited fire damage (no successful saves) for the bonus from burning, and at CR 18 that's nearly impossible.

NeoSeraphi
2011-10-17, 01:06 AM
Yes, let us look at disintegrate. You deal 36d6(average 126) plus 8 Int (sure, why not?) plus (36x3=108) for 242 damage, actually. Now, that's cool, and I would be proud to pull that off. In fact, if we want to make that level-appropriate, why not burn a feat and take empower spell? Empowered disintegrate deals 18/level damage, for 324.

But you still can't kill the Nightcrawler. Because it's CR 18, and one of it's resistances is immunity to Fortitude Saves. If found some way to avert that, it could still roll a Fort Save, or maybe your ray won't hit (you're stacking high Int, decent Con, and Dex probably comes third. With low BAB don't expect to do very well there). Oh, and Spell Resistance 31 (without any boost, 40% chance to hit). Not looking so hot.


I'm going to ignore the parts about the ray and the SR. Those are both legitimate concerns. I'm going to address the part about the nightcrawler being immune to Fortitude saves.

Nightcrawler, the specific creature, has no special immunity against Fortitude saves. So what I'm assuming you're referring to here are its undead traits, which do indeed grant it immunity to Fortitude saves (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm) unless that save also affects objects (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/disintegrate.htm). So the nightcrawler is not, in fact, immune to the effects of disintegrate.

YouLostMe
2011-10-17, 01:27 AM
I'm going to ignore the parts about the ray and the SR. Those are both legitimate concerns. I'm going to address the part about the nightcrawler being immune to Fortitude saves.

Nightcrawler, the specific creature, has no special immunity against Fortitude saves. So what I'm assuming you're referring to here are its undead traits, which do indeed grant it immunity to Fortitude saves (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm) unless that save also affects objects (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/disintegrate.htm). So the nightcrawler is not, in fact, immune to the effects of disintegrate.

Ah, yes, I agree with that. So for a 26 Int caster against a nightcrawler that isn't invisible or shrouded in darkness that's a .95 x .6 x .4 = 22.8% chance to successfully deal damage, also going off the assumption that damage is average and HP is average.

It's not 0%, but it's still worse than wail of the banshee, or using that shapechange which you picked up with advanced learning or any spell with a higher DC for a better save.

jiriku
2011-10-17, 01:29 AM
Looks good. I worry that the advanced learning, while good and strong, will ultimately lead to characters cherry-picking heal, miracle, and other non-warlike spells off the cleric list, simply because those spells are very nice to have. Certainly, this is a class that could rival other arcane spellcasters in battle.

NeoSeraphi
2011-10-17, 01:31 AM
Ah, yes, I agree with that. So for a 26 Int caster against a nightcrawler that isn't invisible or shrouded in darkness that's a .95 x .6 x .4 = 22.8% chance to successfully deal damage, also going off the assumption that damage is average and HP is average.

It's not 0%, but it's still worse than wail of the banshee, or using that shapechange which you picked up with advanced learning or any spell with a higher DC for a better save.

You're right. That is a valid concern that the OP himself needs to address.

Kenneth
2011-10-17, 01:52 AM
ok since you dislike how disintegrate works as it sa 6th level spells..

lets look at Black Blade of Disaster same deal as lets see his touch AC is only 6 so not that hard to actually hit

its invisibel but mr Battle Mage has true seeing

he is inside darkness.. again true seeing and by this time the Battle mage probably as the daylight psell on his Staff so.. nullified again

SO the attack bonus for a non Int optimizes Battle Mage is 26 for a +8 bonus.. Black BLade of distaer uses Battle mages BAB modified by Int bonus as a melee tocuh atack so d20+9+8. so unless he rolls a 1 Battle mage hits. with a 95% success rate.

then it takes 40D6 points of damage+8+120, so he we go with average of 225 damage 47 more than mr nightwalker's max HP. then we get into the save to see if it is not outright destryed. DC is 10+9(spell level)+8(int)+2(spellfocusLconjuration)+2(greater spellf ocus Conjuration) add that up and the DC is 31. the Nightcrawler has a fort save of +11. so.. unless he rolls a 20.. oh wait any creature reduced to 0 or fewer HP by dinesegrate is enirely disintegrated and dead.

but now we have to worry about Spell resistance.. that migh actually be scary. Night walker has a SR of 29.. pretty high :(

so in order to overcome that we make a caster level check d20+18(caster level)+3(spell reinforcement)+2(spell Penetration) for a total of D20+23.

to beat a 29. we just need mr Battle Mage to roll a 6 or higher.so theres a 75% chance to bypass SR.

so thats a 72.75% (95%X75%) chance to kill a nightwalker with BLack Blade of disaster.\

i understand my math might be off, so feel free to pick that apart

PS Jiruku is awesome!

NeoSeraphi
2011-10-17, 02:07 AM
ok since you dislike how disintegrate works as it sa 6th level spells..

lets look at Black Blade of Disaster same deal as lets see his touch AC is only 6 so not that hard to actually hit

its invisibel but mr Battle Mage has true seeing

he is inside darkness.. again true seeing and by this time the Battle mage probably as the daylight psell on his Staff so.. nullified again

SO the attack bonus for a non Int optimizes Battle Mage is 26 for a +8 bonus.. Black BLade of distaer uses Battle mages BAB modified by Int bonus as a melee tocuh atack so d20+9+8. so unless he rolls a 1 Battle mage hits. with a 95% success rate.

then it takes 40D6 points of damage+8+120, so he we go with average of 225 damage 47 more than mr nightwalker's max HP. then we get into the save to see if it is not outright destryed. DC is 10+9(spell level)+8(int)+2(spellfocusLconjuration)+2(greater spellf ocus Conjuration) add that up and the DC is 31. the Nightcrawler has a fort save of +11. so.. unless he rolls a 20.. oh wait any creature reduced to 0 or fewer HP by dinesegrate is enirely disintegrated and dead.

but now we have to worry about Spell resistance.. that migh actually be scary. Night walker has a SR of 29.. pretty high :(

so in order to overcome that we make a caster level check d20+18(caster level)+3(spell reinforcement)+2(spell Penetration) for a total of D20+23.

to beat a 29. we just need mr Battle Mage to roll a 6 or higher.so theres a 75% chance to bypass SR.

so thats a 72.75% (95%X75%) chance to kill a nightwalker with BLack Blade of disaster.\

i understand my math might be off, so feel free to pick that apart

PS Jiruku is awesome!

Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus only add +1 DC each. So your save DC is 29, not 31.

You also used two different caster levels. Black Blade of Disaster deals 2d6 points of damage per caster level. You said 40d6. So that's assuming the CL of this spell is 20. Then you turn around and use 18 for your CL to overcome its SR. If your CL is 18, you're only dealing 36d6 points of damage, which also cuts your damage calculation by -12 from 4 lost dice of Intense Magic.

Kenneth
2011-10-17, 02:17 AM
LOL i actually still used the 36D6 average from my earlier disintegrate post. idk why i put 40D6 up there


and dang me looked up spell pentration TWICE for the SR reduciton and teh DC increase LOL..

ok so the nightwalker can roll a 18 or above to save.. but still as he took more than his max HP, teh fort save is a mute point.

also is there a way to insert a prvate line to specific posters?

NeoSeraphi
2011-10-17, 02:22 AM
LOL i actually still used the 36D6 average from my earlier disintegrate post. idk why i put 40D6 up there


and dang me looked up spell pentration TWICE for the SR reduciton and teh DC increase LOL..

ok so the nightwalker can roll a 18 or above to save.. but still as he took more than his max HP, teh fort save is a mute point.

also is there a way to insert a prvate line to specific posters?

Yes, you can type (For x's eyes only and type [s-poiler]message[/s-poiler], removing the -s. Though that isn't very reliable, anyone can still read it. I suggest you click on the person's name and send them a private message instead.

YouLostMe
2011-10-17, 03:40 AM
ok since you dislike how disintegrate works as it sa 6th level spells..I also made it a 9th level spell... but hey, let's keep this going.


lets look at Black Blade of Disaster same deal as lets see his touch AC is only 6 so not that hard to actually hitHe's only going to fail to hit this nightcrawler of a 1, so 95% chance.


its invisibel but mr Battle Mage has true seeingYou're assuming he knows the nightcrawler is coming, knows its tactics, and has had time to use the spell. A moderate stretch, but OK.


he is inside darkness.. again true seeing and by this time the Battle mage probably as the daylight psell on his Staff so.. nullified againSame problem as above, and I don't think I personally use daylight as a staff spell--it's very much utility. Chances are low.


SO the attack bonus for a non Int optimizes Battle Mage is 26 for a +8 bonus.. Black BLade of distaer uses Battle mages BAB modified by Int bonus as a melee tocuh atack so d20+9+8. so unless he rolls a 1 Battle mage hits. with a 95% success rate. Quite so, my good man.


then it takes 40D6 points of damage+8+120, so he we go with average of 225 damage 47 more than mr nightwalker's max HP. then we get into the save to see if it is not outright destryed. DC is 10+9(spell level)+8(int)+2(spellfocusLconjuration)+2(greater spellf ocus Conjuration) add that up and the DC is 31. the Nightcrawler has a fort save of +11. so.. unless he rolls a 20.. oh wait any creature reduced to 0 or fewer HP by dinesegrate is enirely disintegrated and dead.HURGLE BURGLE STOP. Combat has started--someone has won initiative. If it's the caster, and he all ready is ignoring the deeper darkness and invisibility, AND is within the range of this creature AND it doesn't have its summoned backup to harrass him, then yes, he can cast his spell and fight its SR and see if it makes a Fort Save, and we'll do the numbers on that in a bit.

However, he could be getting jumped by a variety of empowered undead in the nightcrawler's aura if he's close, or he couldn't see the thing and have to spend his first turn using arcane sight. Or he could have lost initative to the nightcrawler, which means it eats him.

The Nightcrawler's Fortitude is +12. So we're running 10+8+9+2+2=31. Only a 5% chance of failure, solid.


but now we have to worry about Spell resistance.. that migh actually be scary. Night walker has a SR of 29.. pretty high :(

so in order to overcome that we make a caster level check d20+18(caster level)+3(spell reinforcement)+2(spell Penetration) for a total of D20+23.That's 18+3+1 for penetration. You're at 22 right now, which is a 55% of success because we're talking about the nightcrawler and not nightwalker, which has SR 2 higher.

So that's .95 x .95 x .55 = 49.6% of killing the nightcrawler, assuming that it doesn't beat your initiative, its minions are not summoned and do not beat your initiative, it is not invisible and/or has not stuck you or itself in a cloud of black OR you have arcane sight up, it has not burrowed underground, and you are in range to hit it. Oh jeez, and I forgot to mention that it has greater dispel magic. Yes, your chances are indeed quite slim.

Alternatively, you could cast and Empowered polymorph any object with your Advanced Learning and turn it into a sheet of paper for 20 minutes and rip up the pieces. Or bury it underground, or light it on fire, or take it home with you for research. Running similar numbers, but no need for an attack, gives us:
.95 x .55 = 52.3% chance of auto-winning. And that's core, doesn't run off of Intense Spell, and has far more utility than black blade of disaster. Alternatively, you could use empowered final rebuke which will daze it even if it passes the will save.

And this is only for one type of creature in one type of encounter. You'll have a tough time here..

And while this point still stands, you have yet to address the other one, where I said that the warmage doesn't feel like it would participate in war. That's far bigger than anything else here.

jiriku
2011-10-17, 07:50 AM
And while this point still stands, you have yet to address the other one, where I said that the warmage doesn't feel like it would participate in war. That's far bigger than anything else here.

Buh? 90% of his spell list and class features involves blowing things to hell, summoning monsters who will blow things to hell, and locking down or debuffing the enemy so they'll stand still while he blows them to hell. He excels in small-unit combat, which was the design goal that the original warmage was attempting to fulfill.

YouLostMe
2011-10-17, 01:34 PM
Buh? 90% of his spell list and class features involves blowing things to hell, summoning monsters who will blow things to hell, and locking down or debuffing the enemy so they'll stand still while he blows them to hell. He excels in small-unit combat, which was the design goal that the original warmage was attempting to fulfill.

So can a sorcerer. That's not a re-done warmage, that's a mage designed for kill things pretty well, just like every other mage. You may also note that at most of the levels, his generic SoDs (acid fog) are better than his blasting spells. So, as it stands, the class has not accomplished what I assume it was made to accomplish--better blasting, and more war.

I made two points, the first has been exhaustively fought over :smallannoyed: and the other has been ignored. Let me reiterate them:

The class is made to incentivize blasting, but the class features don't really do that. We have this chain of posts with meteor swarm, disintegrate, and black blade of destruction.
This class is made to fight in wars, but the class features don't really do that. There's nothing for excluding allies (like you would in a war scenario) or martial-esque boosts, and all of the really useful utilities that a commander would want a lot of (message and scry come to mind) are very limited. This is not a class specifically designed for the battlefield.


Now maybe I'm just wrong, and the Battle Mage wasn't really made to support troops with rations or boost army morale, or make tactical decisions for their troops, etc. But when I see that Kenneth cares about tactics enough to invent a skill for it, then I get this hunch that he wants a tactical military commander.

So let's just clear the air on this one--Kenneth, do you want a spellcasting sergeant or a soldier that casts spells well? Or am I totally off base thinking that this is a retooled warmage?

Kenneth
2011-10-17, 02:10 PM
I just need to pose a question before I continue. Have you ever actually been in a actual War?

If the answer is no, then I 100% see where you are coming from on what you expect from war.

In regards to your first point. Wizards of The Coast, when they made 3rd ed. basically nerfed blasting as a viabel source of damage and a reliabel one at that.

In order for me to make being a blaster an incentive I have to completely re wrok the whole sum of Magic. An undertaking that I feel is much more than what one man or woman is ever capabel of, honestly, I fel that in order to make blasing something people want to do requires an overhaul of the entierty of the system.

The reason why Blasting is subpar to polymorhp and summonings has NOTHING to do with my class, and everything to do with its just inherently more powerful from the get go thanks to WoTC not really understanding hwo easily those very spell groups are capapble of breaking the game.

please re-read the random fluffs about the Battle Mage. I said that in War he is the ranged artillery for the troops and the undisputed master of damage spells.

while Logistics is an intregal part of War.

I wanted to keep the Battle Mage away from those as I think they encroach upon other classes Roles, such as the cleric for giving out food and healing, rogues for scouing and intel gathering.

and In war. there is freidnly fire. I am sure there are probably millions of examples of that (even in today vastly technological advance society) If theres an artilerry shell ( or int his case fieball) coming at your position you are not some how miracously protected from that artillery shell, unless yu somehow know of ultra secret reasrch of weapon that are able to tell friend from Foe and so exclude friendlies from the weapon's effect.


ANd yes The Battle Mage IS supposed to know about tactics, strategy and such. In that case the tactics are ' oh i need to summon food" its "oh if i cast my maximizef fireball I would hurt my team so I am going to go with Firebrand.


and the Military COmmander in my Games is not the Battle Mage, though He can function as a leader as you pointed out. It the Marshal who i retooled to be able to do the things, like Heroes feast, etc. again I try my best to not over reach a class's role in a game with another The battle mage is supposed to be a self-propeeled Howitzer with soem other dabblings such as summoning and battle field control


and inreagrds to your Battle Mage vs nightcrawler. Yeah all those things you mention about the buff and such are slightly ture and their might be a ton fo empowered undead there. but if you wanna go that far into the whole scenario then the nightcrawler is going up against a Warblade, Favored SOul, Factotum and the battle mage.


so ti reiterate my entire post. to make blasting worth a damn in 3rd ed. you need to actually scrap the whole dman thing and start over again from a new base.

jiriku
2011-10-17, 03:50 PM
And just to throw this out there, a nightcrawler is a CR 18 monster. An 18th-level character is (or theoretically should be) a CR 18 monster. An 18th-level character should not be able to reliably kill a CR 18 opponent by casting one spell.

YouLostMe
2011-10-17, 07:31 PM
I just need to pose a question before I continue. Have you ever actually been in a actual War?

If the answer is no, then I 100% see where you are coming from on what you expect from war.As much as I enjoy mindless chest-beating, I'm not going to engage in a "HURR YOU KNO LESS THAN I DOES AT WAR" argument


In regards to your first point. Wizards of The Coast, when they made 3rd ed. basically nerfed blasting as a viabel source of damage and a reliabel one at that.Yes, they did.


In order for me to make being a blaster an incentive I have to completely re wrok the whole sum of Magic. An undertaking that I feel is much more than what one man or woman is ever capabel of, honestly, I fel that in order to make blasing something people want to do requires an overhaul of the entierty of the system.

The reason why Blasting is subpar to polymorhp and summonings has NOTHING to do with my class, and everything to do with its just inherently more powerful from the get go thanks to WoTC not really understanding hwo easily those very spell groups are capapble of breaking the game.
This also has nothing to do with my question. I asked you if you were trying to make a class that blasted well. You seem to be saying "no". All right.


please re-read the random fluffs about the Battle Mage. I said that in War he is the ranged artillery for the troops and the undisputed master of damage spells.

while Logistics is an intregal part of War.

I wanted to keep the Battle Mage away from those as I think they encroach upon other classes Roles, such as the cleric for giving out food and healing, rogues for scouing and intel gathering.So in regards to me question "Is this mage supposed to be all about war?" Your answer is "no". All right, so if blasting is still not up to par with this class, and it's not supposed to be the go-to class for all things war, then what is special about this class?


and In war. there is freidnly fire. I am sure there are probably millions of examples of that (even in today vastly technological advance society) If theres an artilerry shell ( or int his case fieball) coming at your position you are not some how miracously protected from that artillery shell, unless yu somehow know of ultra secret reasrch of weapon that are able to tell friend from Foe and so exclude friendlies from the weapon's effect.Yes, I would agree. That's why I suggested a class feature that allows your blasting spells to avoid your allies while hitting your opponents. You agree with me, and your theme demands it, and yet I still see no action in this area. :smallannoyed:


ANd yes The Battle Mage IS supposed to know about tactics, strategy and such. In that case the tactics are ' oh i need to summon food" its "oh if i cast my maximizef fireball I would hurt my team so I am going to go with Firebrand.First, those are not tactics as you'd hear it in any conversation. If someone talks about "war" and "tactics", they're probably talking about knowing what sort of attacks to use. Or moving troops.

In another vein of thought, the Battle Mage is summoning food with what spell? This class lacks even those basic thematic necessities such as purify food and drink and create water.

Also, if a class is conditioned for war, it could also have the ability to grant immunity to allies targeted by its spells. As suggested.


and the Military COmmander in my Games is not the Battle Mage, though He can function as a leader as you pointed out. It the Marshal who i retooled to be able to do the things, like Heroes feast, etc. again I try my best to not over reach a class's role in a game with another The battle mage is supposed to be a self-propeeled Howitzer with soem other dabblings such as summoning and battle field controlAnd as we have exhaustively talked about here, your Battle Mage is not special in that way. It shines most in combat when using non-blasting spells.


and inreagrds to your Battle Mage vs nightcrawler. Yeah all those things you mention about the buff and such are slightly ture and their might be a ton fo empowered undead there. but if you wanna go that far into the whole scenario then the nightcrawler is going up against a Warblade, Favored SOul, Factotum and the battle mage.No, that is a CR 18 Nightcrawler using CR 18 Nightcrawler tactics. The goal of this is to prove that the Battle Mage's blasting tactics are still worse than not blasting, not that the Nightcrawler is super OP. I am demonstrating a flaw in creation concept by citing a specific example. We can pair your Battle Mage up a dragon if you'd like, or a CR 17 encounter, and I shall demonstrate every time that blasting is an inefficient use of spells.


so ti reiterate my entire post. to make blasting worth a damn in 3rd ed. you need to actually scrap the whole dman thing and start over again from a new base.

Let me reiterate my reply--if you have a class that can perform better doing a different job than the one you designed it for, you need to change your class. The two easiest ways that can be done are as follows:
Don't let it use non-blasting spells
Readjust the class abilities and make it about war
You can't make a class that gives benefits to blasting and then have that class still perform poorly when blasting, because that a trap option.

I ruled out from the start fixing blasting, and told you to add abilities about war because I decided that fixing blasting was too much work. You have told me that blasting is actually good, and once I proved to you that it's not, you have told me that fixing blasting is too much work. So we're on even ground one more. Now tell me, what makes this class special?

Kenneth
2011-10-17, 09:01 PM
Info: Battle Mages are the undisputed masters of destructive magic, especially those spells that directly deal damage to a foe. A Battle Mage can, burn, shock, freeze, stun, or smash a foe with arcane power and do so more readily than any other spell caster.

In some cultures Battle Mages are among the most respected of arcane spell casters. In others they are considered wild canons, tolerated only because of their usefulness in times of war. Battle Mages in all nations have a reoputation for being brash, wild, and hot -headed. In truth Battle Mages are no more or less quick to anger than members of any other class. The difference being that when a Battle Mage gets angry, something generally gets blown up.

Adventures: Battle Mages are driven by a desire to learn things not found by in any library or school. They often set out to search through ruins, dungeons and lost cities in hope of finding some scrap of lore that was previously lost. Many also search endlessly to discover what spells are best used against specific creatures. Unlike other arcane spell casters, this information is not simply of academic interest to a Battle mage, for his offensive options are so vast that a Battle Mage needs to know when it is best to have a selection of damaging spells and when just one is sufficient and useful, thus allowing him to leave other spell slots open.

Characteristics: Like most arcane spell users, Battle Mages are defined primarily by the spells they know and how they use them. A careful Battle Mage who prepares his spells thoughtfully is a force to be reckoned with. A truly rash Battle Mage is likely not to live long against capable opponents, even though his death might be spectacular. A Battle Mage has more offensive spells available to them than any other class, which also means they have more ways to go through their spell selection in combat than nay other class. A wise Battle Mage quickly learns what creatures are most resistant to each spell.

Alignment: Battle Mages are usually some form of Chaotic, as the discordant mind is more likely to understand such things as the wild nature of fire and the unpredictable force of thunder. In many ways this sets Battle Mages apart from other arcane spell casters, who tend to be more evenly distributed among the differencing alignments. They can be of any moral code, however, equal number of good, neutral, and evil Battle mages exist.

Other Classes: Battle Mages are among the most powerful But also among the most vulnerable of arcane spell casters. A Battle mage has average hit points, inability to use armor, and few defensive magics. As a result, Battle Mages almost always travel with a group. This allows the Battle mage time and security to cast the spells he needs to destroy his opponents. Battle Mages generally learnt o come good team players, and their high intelligence usually makes them effective leaders.

Role: The Battle Mageís spell selection has already determined his role. He is the ranged magical artillery military troops rely or, or the center of an adventuring companyís offensive arcane might. An adventuring company with a Battle Mage should consider having another spell caster, to compliment the Battle Mageís offensive focus with a more defensive and utilitarian abilities.



{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
1st|+0|+1|+0|+2| Battle Mageís Edge, Bonus Feat, Familiar
2nd|+1|+1|+0|+3|
3rd|+1|+2|+1|+3| Advanced Learning
4th|+2|+2|+1|+4| Sudden Meta Magic
5th|+2|+2|+1|+4| Bonus Feat, Spell Reinforcement
6th|+3|+3|+2|+5| Intense Magic I, Advanced Learning
7th|+3|+3|+2|+5| Sudden Meta Magic
8th|+2|+3|+2|+6|
9th|+4|+4|+3|+6| Advanced Learning
10th|+5|+4|+3|+7| Sudden Meta Magic, Intense Magic II
11th|+5|+4|+3|+7| Bonus Feat
12th|+6|+5|+4|+8| Advanced Learning
13th|+6|+5|+4|+8| Sudden Meta Magic
14th|+7|+6|+4|+9| Intense Magic III
15th|+7|+6|+5|+9| Advanced Learning
16th|+8|+6|+5|+10| Sudden Meta Magic
17th|+8|+7|+5|+10| Bonus Feat
18th|+9|+7|+6|+11| Intense Magic IV, Advanced Learning
19th|+9|+7|+6|+11| Sudden Meta Magic
20th|+10|+8|+6|+12|
[/table]

{table=head]Spells Per-Day[/table]
{table=head]Level | 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9
1st | 4 | 2 | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - |
2nd | 5 | 3 | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - |
3rd | 6 | 4 | 2 | - | - | - | - | - | - | - |
4th | 6 | 5 | 3 | - | - | - | - | - | - | - |
5th | 6 | 6 | 4 | 2 | - | - | - | - | - | - |
6th | 6 | 6 | 5 | 3 | - | - | - | - | - | - |
7th | 6 | 6 | 6 | 4 | 2 | - | - | - | - | - |
8th | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 3 | - | - | - | - | - |
9th | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 4 | 2 | - | - | - | - |
10th | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 3 | - | - | - | - |
11th | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 4 | 2 | - | - | - |
12th | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 3 | - | - | - |
13th | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 4 | 2 | - | - |
14th | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 3 | - | - |
15th | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 4 | 2 | - |
16th | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 3 | - |
17th | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 4 | 2 |
18th | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 3 |
19th | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 4 |
20th | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 |
[/table]

Skills
The Battle Mageís class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Knowledge: Arcana (Int), Knowledge: Architecture and Engineering(Int), Knowledge: Planar (Int), Knowledge: Tactics (Int), Profession (Wis), Spellcraft (Int)
Skill Points at 1st level
(2+Int Mod)X4
Skill Points for each additional Level
2+Int mod
Hit Die
1d6
Weapon and Armor Proficiency
Battle Mages are proficient with all simple weapons, in addition they also are proficient with the Hand axe, Short Sword, Long Sword, Battle axe, Short Bow, and War hammer, but not with any type of armor or shield. Armor of any type interferes with a Battle Mageís movements, which can cause his spells with somatic components to fail.


A Battle Mage casts arcane spells which are drawn from the Battle Mageís Limited spell list. A Battle Mage must choose and prepare his spells ahead of time (see below).
To learn, prepare, or cast a spell, the Battle Mage must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a wizardís spell is 10 + the spell level + the Battle Mageís Intelligence modifier.
Like other spell casters, a Battle Mage can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on the above table. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Intelligence score.
Though his Spell List may be limited, unlike a bard or sorcerer, a Battle Mage may know any number of spells off his list. He must choose and prepare his spells ahead of time by getting a good nightís sleep and spending 1 hour studying his spell book. While studying, the Battle Mage decides which spells to prepare.
A Battle Mage must study his spellbook each day to prepare his spells. He cannot prepare any spell not recorded in his spell book.
A Battle Mage begins play with a spell book containing all 0-level Battle Mage spells plus two 1st-level spells of your choice. For each point of Intelligence bonus the Battle Mage has, the spell book holds one additional 1st-level spell of your choice. At each new Battle Mage level, he gains two new spells of any spell level or levels that he can cast (based on his new Battle Mage level) for his spell book. At any time, a Battle Mage can also add spells found in other Battle Mageís, or Wizardís spell books, (provided they are also spells from the Battle Mage spell list) to his own.


Familiar: {Ex} A Battle Mage can obtain a familiar in exactly the same manner as a sorcerer, or Wizard can

Battle Mageís Edge: {Ex} A Battle Mage is specialized in dealing damage with his spells. Whenever a Battle Mage casts a spell that deals hit point damage, he adds his Intelligence bonus (if any) to the amount of damage dealt in addition he adds an additional amount equal to every 3rd level of Battle Mage gained, this extra damage is of the same type used by the spell. For instance, if a 1st-level Battle Mage with 17 Intelligence casts magic missile, he deals 1d4+1 points of damage normally, plus an extra 3 points of damage due to his Intelligence bonus. The bonus from the Battle Mage edge special ability applies only to spells that he casts as a Battle Mage , not to those he might have by virtue of levels in another class. A single spell can never gain this extra damage more than once per casting. For instance, a fireball deals the extra damage to all creatures in the area it affects. However, if a 3rd-level Battle Mage casts magic missile and produces two missiles, only one of them (of the Battle Mageís choice) gains the extra damage, even if both missile are directed at the same target. If a spell deals damage for more than 1 round, its deals this extra damage in each round. In addition Battle mage gains an addition bonus equal to his Intelligence bonus (if any) to his castings of Mage Armor or any of its incarnation per Battle Mage level. For instance, if a 1st-level Battle Mage with 17 Intelligence casts Mage armor he only gains a +1 bonus to the Mage Armor, only able to get the full +3 when he has reached 3rd-level as a Battle Mage

Bonus Feat: at 1st, 5th, 11th, and 17th level a Battle Mage gains a bonus feat. He may only choose one of the following; any Meta Magic Feat, Reserve feat, or from the following list: Arcane Defense, Arcane Mastery, Combat Casting, Eschew Materials, Greater Spell Focus, Greater Spell Penetration, Martial Study, Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, Weapon Focus.

Advanced Learning: {Ex} At 3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, and 18th level, a Battle Mage can add a new spell to his list, representing the result of personal study and experimentation. The spell must be a Sorcerer/Wizard spell of a level no higher than that of the highest-level spell the Battle Mage already knows. Or any spell of the Abjuration, Conjuration, or Evocation schools. Once a new spell is selected, it is forever added to that Battle Mageís spell list and can be cast just like any other spell on the Battle Mageís list.

Spell Reinforcement: {Ex} at 5th level and every 5th level afterwards a Battle Mage gains a +1 bonus to overcome Spell Reistance, at 20th level this ability allows his to take 10 on caster level checks to overcome Spell Resistance.

Intense Magic: {Ex} By means of this ability the Battle Mage increases the effectiveness of his combat spells. At 6th level any spell cast by the Battle Mage that inflicts damage gains a +1 bonus per die of damage, this extra damage is un-typed and so ignores any and all resistances and immunities. At 10th level this bonus increases to +2 and at 14th level to +3 and finally at 18th level to +4.

Sudden Meta Magic: {Ex} at 4th level and every three levels afterwards a Battle Mage can apply a meta-magic like effect to a spell he casts once per day. This functions as if the Battle Mage had applied the Meta Magic feat on the spell without altering the spellsí level. The following Meta Magic feats are the only ones that can be mimicked with this ability: Empower, Extend, Enlarge, Lingering, Maximize, Quicken, or Widen. Each specific Meta Magic can only be selected with this ability once.

Spell List
0 Acid Splash, Daze, Disrupt Undead, Detect Magic, Electric Jolt, Flare, Light, Ray of Frost, Read Magic.

1st Burning hands, Corrosive Grasp, Chill Touch, Grease, Hail of Stone, Ice Dagger, Magic Missle, Mage Armor, Magic Weapon, Orb of Acid, Lesser, Orb of Cold, Lesser, Orb of Electricity, Lesser, Orb of Fire, Lesser, Orb of Force, Lesser, Orb of Sound, Lesser, Ray of Flame, Shocking Grasp, Sleep, Shield, Sonic Blast, Summon Monster I, Targeting Ray, Wall of Smoke

2nd Battering Ram, Blades of Fire, Blast of Force, Blur, Continual Flame, Combust, Daze Monster, Electric Loop, False Life, Fireburst, Fire Trap, Flaming sphere, Fog Cloud, Frost Breath, Flame Dagger, Darkness, Ice Knife, Melfís Acid Arrow, Miror Image, Pyrotechnics, Protection From Arrows,Resist Energy, Scorch, Scorching Ray, Shatter, Spider Climb, Summon Monster II, Wall of Gloom, Web

3rd Acid breathe Bearís Endurance, Bullís Strength, Catís Grace, Chain Missile, Daylight, Disrupt Undead, Greater, Great Thunderclap, Eagleís Splendor, Fireshield, Foxís Cunning, flame Arrow, Fiend Blight, Gust of Wind, Hailstorm, Haste, Ice Lance, Lightning Bolt, Mage Armor, Greater, Mage Armor, Mass, Magic Weapon, Greater, Ring of Blades, Resonating Bolt, Reverse Arrows, Scintillating Sphere, Searing Light, Sleet Storm, Sound Lance, Stinking Cloud, Summon Monster III, Weapon of Energy

4th Arcane Sight, Blast of Flame, Blistering Radiance, Burning Blood, Defenestrating Sphere, Dragon Breathe, Evardís Black Tentacles, Fly, Ice Storm, Force Missles, Globe of Invulnerability, Lesser, Heroism, Orb of Acid, Orb of Cold, Orb of Electricity, Orb of Fire, Orb of Force, Orb of Sound, Summon Monster IV, Shout, Stone Shape, Thunderlance, Wall of Fire, Wall of ice, Wall of Sand, Wall of Water

5th Arc Lightning, Arcane Eye, Ball Lightning, Cloudkill, Cone of Cold, Cyclonic Burst, Dimension Door, Dispel Magic, Fire Shiled, mass, Fireburst, Greater, Firebrand, Flamestrike, Prismatic Ray, Scry, Shroud of flame, Summon Monster V, Vitrolic Sphere, Wall of Iron, Wall of Force, Wall of Stone

6th Acid Fog, Acid Storm, Anti-magic Shell, Blade Barrier, Chain Lightning, Contingency, Disintegrate, Fireseeds, Globe of Invulnerability, Otilukeís Freezing Sphere, Prismatic Eye, Summon Monster VI, Tenserís Transformation, True Seeing, Waves of Fatigue

7th Delayed Blast Fireball, Earthquake, Finger of Death, Ice Claw, Firestorm, Forcecage, Mordekainenís Sword, Prismatic Spray, Prying Eyes, Power Word: blind Sunbeam, Scintillating Pattern, Summon Monster VII, Stun Ray, Waves of Exhaustion

8th Anti-Magic Field, Bombardment, Dispel Magic, Greater, Horrid Wilting, Incendiary Cloud, Field of Icy Razors, Polar Ray, Lightning Ring, Prismatic Wall, power Word: Stun, Shout, Greater, Storm Rage, Sunburst, Summon Monster VII

9th Black Blade of Disaster, Elemental Swarm, Implosion, Meteor Swarm, Prismatic Sphere, Power Word: Kill, Summon Monster IX, Wail of the Banshee[/QUOTE]

YouLostMe
2011-10-18, 01:39 AM
I recommend putting your edit in the OP. Also, I'm not sure if this is a reference to the comments I most recently made, so I won't respond to the changes.

jiriku
2011-10-18, 02:34 AM
I like that it gets enough Sudden metamagic feats to realistically acquire Sudden Quicken pre-epic. That feat was a nifty idea hamstrung by overly burdensome requirements.