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Hallavast
2011-10-16, 10:40 PM
Grimm (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rVy3RBJmNo)

NBC is coming out with a new series about horror fairy tales. Whatever. The only thing I care about is the fact that they pitched it as "from the producers of Buffy and Angel". Well that means nothing without Whedon. So my question is: is he writing for the series or not? Because some people say he is, but on IMDB there's no credit unless I'm wrong.

If he's not, then that makes me just annoyed enough to tell them to go bleep off, because I won't watch it. For all you who might say that's a little premature or silly, I say; if they didn't want to live by that sword, they shouldn't have mentioned it at all and it probably would have been fine. Derp.

Tirian
2011-10-17, 02:40 AM
It's pretty hard to believe that Joss Whedon would be finding time to write scripts over the past while what with directing an ultramajor motion picture, so I'm going to go out on a limb and say that he's not involved. From my looking, it's just one Angel producer and one Buffy producer whose names don't really set off bells in my head.

My gut reaction is that they're ripping off Fables pretty significantly, which would be interesting if it were done well. A team with some experience in merging supernatural and mundane worlds would be a relief on that score even if it didn't have Whedon's snappy introspective dialog. I'll withhold judgment for now.

Lord Seth
2011-10-17, 03:55 AM
Grimm (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rVy3RBJmNo)

NBC is coming out with a new series about horror fairy tales. Whatever. The only thing I care about is the fact that they pitched it as "from the producers of Buffy and Angel". Well that means nothing without Whedon.Why? David Greenwalt (which I assume it refers to) was a producer on Buffy, and he's credited as the creator of Angel (alongside Whedon) and was its showrunner for the first three seasons, and may have actually had more influence on the series than Whedon did. Don't throw out the major contributions of other people to Buffy or Angel just because they have less name recognition. Admittedly, the other one, Jim Kouf, appears to have only worked on Angel and didn't contribute nearly as much as Greenwalt, but he still qualifies.


If he's not, then that makes me just annoyed enough to tell them to go bleep off, because I won't watch it. For all you who might say that's a little premature or silly, I say; if they didn't want to live by that sword, they shouldn't have mentioned it at all and it probably would have been fine. Derp.But they stated correctly that it was from producers of Buffy and Angel, and it was...and a fairly notable producer, at that (well, one of them was anyway). Unless they explicitly named Whedon by name in the commercials, I can't see them as having done anything wrong in that advertisement.

Hallavast
2011-10-18, 02:41 AM
Why? WHY?!

Imagine a Whedonless Buffy OR Angel. Then try to tempt me to watch something because it's like Buffy and Angel when you full know that it is completely sans Whedon. It's like trying to sell an energy drink without caffeine and advertise it as being from the makers of Monster. I'm just gonna be disappointed if I try it. It won't satisfy my addiction. That's why.

Lord Seth
2011-10-18, 02:54 AM
Why? WHY?!

Imagine a Whedonless Buffy OR Angel. Then try to tempt me to watch something because it's like Buffy and Angel when you full know that it is completely sans Whedon. It's like trying to sell an energy drink without caffeine and advertise it as being from the makers of Monster. I'm just gonna be disappointed if I try it. It won't satisfy my addiction. That's why.The issue I have here is you are again fixated on Whedon while ignoring the fact that others had very large contributions to the series also. As I noted, David Greenwalt may have had a bigger influence on Angel than Whedon did (at least in its first three seasons). Whedon played an important role on those shows, but he wasn't the only one, and you can certainly say "imagine a <insert name here>-less Buffy/Angel" for other people who worked on it and make the same point. Just because Whedon has more name recognition doesn't mean he did everything.

And again, you're freaking out and getting angry because of your claim that a commercial said something despite the fact it didn't say that.

Feytalist
2011-10-18, 03:29 AM
Huh. The premise sounds interesting enough. I'm a sucker for these types of series, stuff like Sanctuary and all that.

Remember that someone like Whedon isn't the only creative mind behind the shows that he is tied to. He had other collaborators working on his series. So the aesthetic of Grimm might very well be similar to that of Buffy and Angel, but perhaps without all that wacky dialogue that Whedon is most famous for.

Dienekes
2011-10-18, 08:23 AM
Well that trailer spoilered the entire first episode.

Sadly Fables was mentioned as a comparison and I disagree, seems more like Supernatural just replace demons with fairy tale critters. Seeing a Fables show come to life developing the culture of such beings and how'd they react seems second fiddle to making a monster of the week detective show.

It might be good, but I think I'll skip it until I hear a review or two. But then while I enjoy much of his work I've never placed Whedon on some unattainable pinnacle of entertainment perfection. Frankly the show creator's have a right to market their work as they want so long as they don't make false advertisement. They don't seem to have done that so I don't really see what the problem is.

Hallavast
2011-10-19, 12:07 AM
The issue I have here is you are again fixated on Whedon while ignoring the fact that others had very large contributions to the series also. As I noted, David Greenwalt may have had a bigger influence on Angel than Whedon did (at least in its first three seasons). Whedon played an important role on those shows, but he wasn't the only one, and you can certainly say "imagine a <insert name here>-less Buffy/Angel" for other people who worked on it and make the same point. Just because Whedon has more name recognition doesn't mean he did everything.

And again, you're freaking out and getting angry because of your claim that a commercial said something despite the fact it didn't say that.

Okay, guy. I don't have the energy to keep up the mock rage forever. In fact, if the construction industry picks up in my city in the next few weeks, I probably won't have time to watch it even if it DID have everything I would want in a TV series. I'd have to either record it or buy the DVD (not likely).

I probably wouldn't have watched this show even if they didn't mention Buffyverse (and you're right. They never said "Whedon"). So all in all, I really don't care that much. Just playing around with the handle to point out new media to the forum and to make a subjective point about something only remotely connected to it.

So if you don't agree with the subjective premise that "without Whedon, Buffy would not be Buffy", that's fine. But don't expect to then understand how this is very mildly annoying (because you don't share the original sentiment in the first place). I intended my tone to be comical. I think that's a failure on my part.

But all things considered, if you see a fellow on the internet who points to a work of fiction, ignores the actual content of the work entirely, and gets hung up on some trivial semi-related gripe that they half imagined, and you think this is totally normal and don't think to even consider that they might not be completely earnest... then that says something telling about the discourse of modern fiction.

Now, since I'm already talking about this, I may as well comment on the actual content of the trailer (something I never intended to do...). I agree with others when they have said that the whole team of mystical investigators reminds me more of Supernatural than anything else. As it happens, I didn't like that show either, because I don't think much of the leading role's actor's performance. I think Nathan Fillion would have made a superb choice for that role instead. Too bad. I don't think that actually presents anything on which to actually judge this show, however. So, meh.

Steinkügeln
2011-10-19, 11:01 PM
Grimm is being produced close by to me, and the storylines have started filtering out. (scripts given to actor buddies). I think it sounds pretty darned cool and I can't wait. It probably won't last long, but I still can't wait. :)

Lord Seth
2011-10-20, 02:41 AM
So if you don't agree with the subjective premise that "without Whedon, Buffy would not be Buffy", that's fine.But I don't disagree with that. What I was saying was that you could apply that phrase to any number of people who worked on Buffy or Angel.


But all things considered, if you see a fellow on the internet who points to a work of fiction, ignores the actual content of the work entirely, and gets hung up on some trivial semi-related gripe that they half imagined, and you think this is totally normal and don't think to even consider that they might not be completely earnest... then that says something telling about the discourse of modern fiction.The thing is, if you were trying to joke around, you really gave no indication that was the case.


Now, since I'm already talking about this, I may as well comment on the actual content of the trailer (something I never intended to do...). I agree with others when they have said that the whole team of mystical investigators reminds me more of Supernatural than anything else. As it happens, I didn't like that show either, because I don't think much of the leading role's actor's performance.Which actor's performance? Sam and Dean are both leading characters, so I have no idea who you're talking about here.
I think it sounds pretty darned cool and I can't wait. It probably won't last long, but I still can't wait. :)Yeah, I'm dubious about the show's chances also. The only scripted broadcast shows I can think in recent years of that premiered on Friday and weren't failures were Dollhouse and Blue Bloods...the former of which only barely made it to a second season. Blue Bloods looks like it'll be a keeper for CBS, though, so it's not like Friday successes are impossible.

Helanna
2011-10-20, 10:02 AM
Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. I'm not gonna get my hopes up too high, but it seems like it could be a pretty cool show.

Talya
2011-10-22, 08:24 PM
I am going to find my bittorrent list very busy on friday nights. (Nikita, Fringe, Chuck, Grimm, Clone Wars)

Cherry_Blossom
2011-10-24, 07:44 AM
Just yesterday night I watched this series. The premise was interesting and after this fist episode I'm even more curious.


I'm a sucker for these types of series, stuff like Sanctuary and all that.

Sanctuary? How it looks like? :smallsmile:

Feytalist
2011-10-24, 09:07 AM
Sanctuary? How it looks like? :smallsmile:

Heh.

Sanctuary is a SF series about a group of scientists who essentially run a monster sanctuary (big surprise) where they help, rehabilitate and protect the world's monsters from the rest of the world. It stars Amanda Tapping, who would be familiar to any die-hard SF geek from Stargate SG-1.

It started off as a series of free webisodes (which I thought was actually better) but was then expanded into a full series. It's on season 3 now, as far as I'm aware. The story and premise is interesting at least, and some of the characters are intruiging as well. Unfortunately it has a very low-budget feel to it. I'd say about 90% is green screen and CGI work, and it really shows. Also the series does come across as taking itself too seriously at times, as these types of stories are prone to do. But like I said, I'm a sucker for stories like this :smallbiggrin:

Mewtarthio
2011-10-24, 11:38 AM
Just yesterday night I watched this series. The premise was interesting and after this fist episode I'm even more curious.

Wait, what? I thought it didn't premiere until Friday. :smallconfused:

Joran
2011-10-24, 11:53 AM
Wait, what? I thought it didn't premiere until Friday. :smallconfused:

Perhaps he confused "Once Upon A Time" with "Grimm". Fairy tales brought into the real world, but otherwise different premises.


But all things considered, if you see a fellow on the internet who points to a work of fiction, ignores the actual content of the work entirely, and gets hung up on some trivial semi-related gripe that they half imagined, and you think this is totally normal and don't think to even consider that they might not be completely earnest... then that says something telling about the discourse of modern fiction.

Yup, welcome to the Internet. This is why we need a sarcasm mark or something denoting someone's joking.

Mewtarthio
2011-10-24, 12:05 PM
Perhaps he confused "Once Upon A Time" with "Grimm". Fairy tales brought into the real world, but otherwise different premises.

That makes sense.

I'm suprised he liked it. I never bothered watching it myself. The premise seems a bit odd: If they don't know they're fairy tales, then what's the point?

That being said, I'd hate to jump to conclusions if it really is worthwhile. We could use some more good fantasy shows on network television.


Yup, welcome to the Internet. This is why we need a sarcasm mark or something denoting someone's joking.

Yeah, I agree. Perhaps some sort of specialized icon indicating an emotion or tone of voice. We could base it off of something fundamental to human communication that is lost in internet transactions. Like, say, facial expressions. :smallamused:

Cherry_Blossom
2011-10-25, 08:11 AM
Heh.

Sanctuary is a SF series about a group of scientists who essentially run a monster sanctuary (big surprise) where they help, rehabilitate and protect the world's monsters from the rest of the world. It stars Amanda Tapping, who would be familiar to any die-hard SF geek from Stargate SG-1.

It started off as a series of free webisodes (which I thought was actually better) but was then expanded into a full series. It's on season 3 now, as far as I'm aware. The story and premise is interesting at least, and some of the characters are intruiging as well. Unfortunately it has a very low-budget feel to it. I'd say about 90% is green screen and CGI work, and it really shows. Also the series does come across as taking itself too seriously at times, as these types of stories are prone to do. But like I said, I'm a sucker for stories like this :smallbiggrin:

Oh, thanks! It looks interesting. I'll put it in my list! :smallsmile:

Cherry_Blossom
2011-10-25, 08:13 AM
Wait, what? I thought it didn't premiere until Friday. :smallconfused:

Uhm... I found it on this site: http://film-stream.tv/2011/10/grimm-serie-tv/

The Glyphstone
2011-10-25, 09:45 AM
Makes you wonder sometimes how co-writers and non-top-billed contributors feel about lack of recognition. As mentioned here, other people than Whedon worked on Buffy/Angel; Henry Selick tangled up in Tim Burton's coattails; anyone besides Steven Spielberg who worked on a Spielberg movie. Maybe this Greenwalt guy did have a bigger contribution to Angel than anything Whedon did, but it's Whedon's name recognition that will draw audiences and profits.

Cherry_Blossom
2011-10-27, 05:16 AM
Perhaps he confused "Once Upon A Time" with "Grimm". Fairy tales brought into the real world, but otherwise different premises.

SHE didn't confused "Once Upon A Time" with Grimm :smallwink:... Have you take a look at the link I posted days ago?

Joran
2011-10-27, 11:30 AM
SHE didn't confused "Once Upon A Time" with Grimm :smallwink:... Have you take a look at the link I posted days ago?

I guessed before you posted the link.

Why I thought a person named Cherry Blossom (awesome name by the way) and with the pink female icon was a male... Yeah, I'm an idiot :)

It still hasn't premiered yet in the United States.

KillianHawkeye
2011-10-28, 07:11 AM
Heh.

Sanctuary is a SF series about a group of scientists who essentially run a monster sanctuary (big surprise) where they help, rehabilitate and protect the world's monsters from the rest of the world. It stars Amanda Tapping, who would be familiar to any die-hard SF geek from Stargate SG-1.

It started off as a series of free webisodes (which I thought was actually better) but was then expanded into a full series. It's on season 3 now, as far as I'm aware. The story and premise is interesting at least, and some of the characters are intruiging as well. Unfortunately it has a very low-budget feel to it. I'd say about 90% is green screen and CGI work, and it really shows. Also the series does come across as taking itself too seriously at times, as these types of stories are prone to do. But like I said, I'm a sucker for stories like this :smallbiggrin:

Actually, season 4 began about a month ago.

Starbuck_II
2011-10-28, 09:59 AM
I've seen only the 30 minute Preview on Hulu, I do really like it.

Bhu
2011-10-28, 09:03 PM
It seems ... ok. I'll wanna watch a second show before deciding.

Mewtarthio
2011-10-28, 09:29 PM
Pilot's got a bit of a rushed feel to it. It's obvious they were trying to set up all the characters, relationships, and setting elements in less than forty-five minutes. That makes it pretty hard to get a feel for the show, but if I abandoned every show with a rushed pilot, I'd watch even less TV than I do now. I'll stick around for the second episode.

That being said, there were a couple of nitpicks that can't just be blamed on rushing all the introductions. Like, I know that Hollywood Cops rarely bother with warrants or due process or all that, but kicking down the door, weapons ready, just because the suspect happens to have heard of the same well-known 80s hit the victim once listened to? :smallconfused: I want to like this show, I really do, but it really needs to get its act together next week.

Starbuck_II
2011-10-29, 11:44 AM
Hey, if it was the wrong guy, they can always plant evidence, right?

Granted, as protagonist is a cop, guess it would be bad to go crooked. :smallbiggrin:

BRC
2011-10-29, 01:15 PM
Yeah, they did the Hollywood Cop thing, which I guess they can get a little leeway on considering it was a kidnapping case (and therefore highly time-sensitive). It dosn't make them right, but I guess it makes their actions slightly more explainable.

Really, the most interesting character was the reformed BBW. Maybe it was just because his immediate awareness of the situation was deliciously meta, but I just like him. In an episode (And show) where the viewer and protagonist were totally lost, it was nice to have a character who knew everything and had no problem telling us in non-ambigious terms.

H Birchgrove
2011-10-29, 02:49 PM
It will come here in November. I'll try to see the first episode to see if it's any good. Reminds me too much of Red Riding Hood from 2011, and by default, the Twilight series.

Mewtarthio
2011-10-29, 03:36 PM
It will come here in November. I'll try to see the first episode to see if it's any good. Reminds me too much of Red Riding Hood from 2011, and by default, the Twilight series.

I don't really see any connection between Twilight and Grimm (unless you mean they're both urban fantasy). I didn't see the RRH movie, so I can't say whether there's any connection, but I doubt it.


Yeah, they did the Hollywood Cop thing, which I guess they can get a little leeway on considering it was a kidnapping case (and therefore highly time-sensitive). It dosn't make them right, but I guess it makes their actions slightly more explainable.

The hero's actions are perfectly explainable. I'm betting the series will have a lot of "untouchable" villains (eg, ones that he can only link to the crime thanks to specialized Grimm knowledge and/or glamour failures), so it's good to establish that he's willing to work outside the law if necessary. I'm just annoyed that the conflict didn't get brought up (even a token mention of an investigation into the shooting would have been nice) and that the evidence that led to the break-in was so flimsy.

Also: Does that girl leave her iPod on "Repeat" whenever she goes jogging or something?


Really, the most interesting character was the reformed BBW. Maybe it was just because his immediate awareness of the situation was deliciously meta, but I just like him. In an episode (And show) where the viewer and protagonist were totally lost, it was nice to have a character who knew everything and had no problem telling us in non-ambigious terms.

I'll admit, I was glad to see from the previews that he's apparently going to play a major role. He was my favorite character, even if I felt that he and Grimm trusted each other a bit too readily (see: rushed feeling to the pilot).

Lord Seth
2011-10-29, 05:12 PM
Good news, everyone! Grimm did surprisingly well, with a 2.1 in the 18-49 demographic. Which not only is good for a Friday (it's the best non-sports Friday rating on any network in 2011 so far!), I believe it's actually slightly above average for NBC...which actually says a lot more about NBC than it does about Grimm, but still. It also got double (!) what Chuck, its lead-in, did. Honestly, Grimm's strong premiere may be the biggest surprise of the season so far.

Of course, first episode ratings can only tell you so much (see: FlashForward), but it does mean that there's no fear of swift cancellation.

Chainsaw Hobbit
2011-10-29, 06:33 PM
I tried watching Grimm, but got a little bored. I would rather be watching Castle.

H Birchgrove
2011-10-29, 07:05 PM
I don't really see any connection between Twilight and Grimm (unless you mean they're both urban fantasy). I didn't see the RRH movie, so I can't say whether there's any connection, but I doubt it.

I just got got the "modern emo depressed dark fantasy" feel from the TV trailer; mind you, the TV trailer here might have been different from the one Americans got. *shrugs*

Red Riding Hood was either produced, directed and/or written by the same who did Twilight.

I just hope there won't be the "normal people (humans) knows nothing and are stupid" like in True Blood (which I've stopped watching). I'm fed up with it.

Mewtarthio
2011-10-29, 07:57 PM
I just got got the "modern emo depressed dark fantasy" feel from the TV trailer; mind you, the TV trailer here might have been different from the one Americans got. *shrugs*

Red Riding Hood was either produced, directed and/or written by the same who did Twilight.

Um... Yes, I suppose there is a chance that this show has the same genre as a film that might have been worked on by someone with an as-yet-unspecified relationship with Twilight. :smallconfused:

Just what exactly is it you're concerned about? If there really is something specific you want to know about the show before you watch it, I can try to answer...

chiasaur11
2011-10-29, 08:32 PM
I just got got the "modern emo depressed dark fantasy" feel from the TV trailer; mind you, the TV trailer here might have been different from the one Americans got. *shrugs*

Red Riding Hood was either produced, directed and/or written by the same who did Twilight.

I just hope there won't be the "normal people (humans) knows nothing and are stupid" like in True Blood (which I've stopped watching). I'm fed up with it.

So far, we're off to a decent start on that front.

Our hero's cop partner offs the monster of the week, and the first monster that gets iced?

Civilian ID has a rap sheet as long as your arm, and Nick is commended for shooting him a lot.

Lord Seth
2011-10-29, 08:44 PM
Red Riding Hood was either produced, directed and/or written by the same who did Twilight.So, by the logic you're presenting...

The same person who was the screenwriter for Twilight and its sequels was the head writer for the first few seasons of Dexter.

Dexter looks kinda similar to The Sopranos.

Therefore, The Sopranos is like Twilight.

Cherry_Blossom
2011-10-30, 07:09 AM
I guessed before you posted the link.

Why I thought a person named Cherry Blossom (awesome name by the way) and with the pink female icon was a male... Yeah, I'm an idiot :)

It still hasn't premiered yet in the United States.

No problem! :smallwink:
Have you seen the pilot, finally? :smallsmile:

Bhu
2011-11-04, 08:51 PM
"Okay that went a little too far..."

Im liking the werewolf sidekick so far

Mewtarthio
2011-11-04, 09:13 PM
The second episode was a lot stronger than the pilot. Munroe the werewolf remains awesome.

Quick questions: Did anyone manage to catch Aunt Marie's dying words? I couldn't really make them out. Also, I can't trust my memory of faces; The Grimm Reaper's operator is Nick's superior, right?

Joran
2011-11-06, 01:58 AM
The second episode was a lot stronger than the pilot. Munroe the werewolf remains awesome.

Quick questions: Did anyone manage to catch Aunt Marie's dying words? I couldn't really make them out. Also, I can't trust my memory of faces; The Grimm Reaper's operator is Nick's superior, right?

Spoilering my answers; I suggest you spoil your questions:

Correct. Nick's Police Captain was the one trying to ice Aunt Marie.

Aunt Marie's dying words:

"Remember who you are. Trust your instincts and nothing else."



No problem! :smallwink:
Have you seen the pilot, finally? :smallsmile:

Yeah, it made my DVR list and the wife likes it. The fiancé is going to come to a nasty end, isn't she? So far, I really like the witty werewolf guy but otherwise the other two leads are kind of bland.

Also, the series is available on Hulu in the United States for those who missed the episodes when they aired.

H Birchgrove
2011-11-06, 09:51 AM
So, by the logic you're presenting...

The same person who was the screenwriter for Twilight and its sequels was the head writer for the first few seasons of Dexter.

Dexter looks kinda similar to The Sopranos.

Therefore, The Sopranos is like Twilight.

I suppose I could have worded it better...


Um... Yes, I suppose there is a chance that this show has the same genre as a film that might have been worked on by someone with an as-yet-unspecified relationship with Twilight. :smallconfused:

Just checked imdb.com (I should've done it earlier, but I guess I was tired or something), and the director of the first Twilight film did direct Red Riding Hood.


Just what exactly is it you're concerned about? If there really is something specific you want to know about the show before you watch it, I can try to answer...

Well... Are people in it acting like blithering idiots, good- and neutral-aligned characters in particular? Assuming some Masquerade is going on, are the good guys able to expose it to the rest of the world? Is there some government conspiracy connected with the Masquerade?

Thanks in advance.


So far, we're off to a decent start on that front.

Our hero's cop partner offs the monster of the week, and the first monster that gets iced?

Civilian ID has a rap sheet as long as your arm, and Nick is commended for shooting him a lot.

Sounds great! :smallbiggrin:

Candle Jack
2011-11-14, 01:45 PM
No one else is going to say it?

Bee people. My God.

Joran
2011-11-14, 03:34 PM
No one else is going to say it?

Bee people. My God.

Swarms of bees on command. Egads. Also, apparently all the (what do we call these other people?) are not on the same side, they have battles with each other.

And in true Buffy fashion, it looks like they're setting the ground for a big bad.


Well... Are people in it acting like blithering idiots, good- and neutral-aligned characters in particular? Assuming some Masquerade is going on, are the good guys able to expose it to the rest of the world? Is there some government conspiracy connected with the Masquerade?

Let me see if I can answer these questions for you. There is a Masquerade on-going; normal people don't think there's any such things as the type of beings that Detective Burkhardt can see.

Even to Burkhardt, they're tough to see, he can only see them if they lose control. He doesn't expose them because everyone would think he's a raving lunatic if he tried; even autopsied, the Hexenbeasts look human, except for markings on their tongue. Also, not all the other people are evil, there's a nice guy wolf.

We haven't seen enough to know whether there's a government conspiracy involving the Masquerade yet.

Candle Jack
2011-11-14, 03:52 PM
Swarms of bees on command. Egads. Also, apparently all the (what do we call these other people?) are not on the same side, they have battles with each other.

You know, I'm not sure. We hear the names of their individual species, but there's no word for these creatures as a whole.

Joran
2011-11-14, 05:39 PM
You know, I'm not sure. We hear the names of their individual species, but there's no word for these creatures as a whole.

And the individual species are pretty difficult to remember because they're German. I can't remember anything other than Hexenbeasts.

Candle Jack
2011-11-14, 05:48 PM
According to the official website, so far we've seen bludbaten (werewolves), Jagerbars (werebears), hexenbiests (witches, or possibly goblins) and mellifers (bee people).

Bhu
2011-11-14, 09:02 PM
and the guys with the sickles who hunt down the grimms. did they name them?

Candle Jack
2011-11-15, 12:11 AM
and the guys with the sickles who hunt down the grimms. did they name them?

The creature that attacked Marie was a Hulda, a kind of troll. Oddly enough, the original story states that Hulda is female.

I don't know if all Huldas are Reapers of the Grimm.

Mewtarthio
2011-11-15, 01:51 AM
I just call them the Grimm Reapers. :smalltongue:

Oh, and there's also the police captain, Schade's boss. According to IMDB, he's named "Captain Renard," so he's probably some sort of foxman.

Xondoure
2011-11-15, 02:21 AM
and the guys with the sickles who hunt down the grimms. did they name them?

That seems to be an order, not a species. And yeah, Grimm Reapers.

Starbuck_II
2011-11-15, 09:29 AM
According to the official website, so far we've seen bludbaten (werewolves), Jagerbars (werebears), hexenbiests (witches, or possibly goblins) and mellifers (bee people).

I thought hexenbiests were Spider people. Remember she used spider venom on the main character while trying to kill the guy's aunt at the hospital.

Bees hate spiders: Their mortal enemies are each other.

Candle Jack
2011-11-15, 12:33 PM
That's a good point. I was going off strictly by what's said on the website, where it's stated that they were like witches or goblins. I thought the former to be more likely as all the hexenbiests revealed thus far have been women.

LCR
2011-11-19, 06:13 AM
According to the official website, so far we've seen bludbaten (werewolves), Jagerbars (werebears), hexenbiests (witches, or possibly goblins) and mellifers (bee people).

You know, the faux German really bothers me. Ziegevolk, seriously? Would it have been so expensive to hire someone who actually speaks the language?

Mewtarthio
2011-11-19, 01:44 PM
You know, the faux German really bothers me. Ziegevolk, seriously? Would it have been so expensive to hire someone who actually speaks the language?

But remember, most ordinary people hear those words as ordinary, realistic German constructions. Only the Grimms can perceive their horrible true forms. :smalltongue:

Avilan the Grey
2011-11-19, 03:33 PM
According to the official website, so far we've seen bludbaten (werewolves), Jagerbars (werebears), hexenbiests (witches, or possibly goblins) and mellifers (bee people).

Except that Bludenbaten are most definitely NOT werewolves. They think people who think they are, are retarded.

And Hexen is an old word meaning witchcraft etc. The modern Swedish word for Witch is Häxa. I am sure they turn out to be organized in Covens. My bet is that all the female lawyers in that firm were Hexenbiests, and it really was a camouflage for a huge coven. With a male leader / object of worship perhaps (a Satan stand in if you will?)

Bhu
2011-11-19, 04:09 PM
You know, the faux German really bothers me. Ziegevolk, seriously? Would it have been so expensive to hire someone who actually speaks the language?

I think the fact the writers are incapable of telling the difference between a frog and a toad bugs me more. :smallannoyed:

Avilan the Grey
2011-11-19, 04:29 PM
I think the fact the writers are incapable of telling the difference between a frog and a toad bugs me more. :smallannoyed:

Speaking of that episode: First idiot ball moment!

Our clever Grimm / Detective sees no problem with a young attractive paramedic taking care of the horny goat? Come on!

Edit: So is there two separate organizations that hunt Grimms?

Starbuck_II
2011-11-19, 05:44 PM
I think the fact the writers are incapable of telling the difference between a frog and a toad bugs me more. :smallannoyed:

Maybe it was a rare breed of toads that are look like frogs but are genetically toads . :smalltongue:
Remember, things are not only classified by looks anymore.

Helanna
2011-11-19, 11:37 PM
On the plus side, it seemed like Monroe (that's the werewolf-type guy, right? Man I can't keep any of the names on this show straight) kinda seemed to be getting into the whole detective thing. So I'm hoping that he gets a bigger role in the future, and maybe starts participating willingly.

Mewtarthio
2011-11-20, 12:12 AM
Except that Bludenbaten are most definitely NOT werewolves. They think people who think they are, are retarded.

They're wolf-people with a great sense of smell who freak out under the full moon.


Speaking of that episode: First idiot ball moment!

Our clever Grimm / Detective sees no problem with a young attractive paramedic taking care of the horny goat? Come on!

Yeesh. I was waiting for him to interrupt that scene or something. There's genre blindness, and then there's turning your back on a serial rapist with mind control powers.

On the plus side, as creepy as that scene was, I can't really see the guy doing much damage. He's not really in any position to leverage his control (even if he could give orders in his current state, there are likely more paramedics and cops who will accompany him to the hospital), and we do know that it's resistible/wears off (since the Victim of the Week managed to break free). And I can't imagine he'll have access to his horniness toads in prison.


Edit: So is there two separate organizations that hunt Grimms?

Actually, it seems like only the scythe guys (the Grimm Reapers) are really dedicated to that. I think Schade and Renard were trying to off Marie for their own reasons.

H Birchgrove
2011-11-20, 09:28 AM
Let me see if I can answer these questions for you. There is a Masquerade on-going; normal people don't think there's any such things as the type of beings that Detective Burkhardt can see.

Even to Burkhardt, they're tough to see, he can only see them if they lose control. He doesn't expose them because everyone would think he's a raving lunatic if he tried; even autopsied, the Hexenbeasts look human, except for markings on their tongue. Also, not all the other people are evil, there's a nice guy wolf.

We haven't seen enough to know whether there's a government conspiracy involving the Masquerade yet.

Then the Masquerade seems to be handled quite well then. :smallsmile:

Avilan the Grey
2011-11-20, 12:20 PM
Actually, it seems like only the scythe guys (the Grimm Reapers) are really dedicated to that. I think Schade and Renard were trying to off Marie for their own reasons.

That's sort of what I meant. It seems the "others" are a more modern bunch with better ideas than "For the Evulz".

Hiro Protagonest
2011-11-20, 10:26 PM
Speaking of that episode: First idiot ball moment!

Our clever Grimm / Detective sees no problem with a young attractive paramedic taking care of the horny goat? Come on!

Aye. I doubt the police would've bought it, but they could've at least shown he was smart by him muttering about it as he walked away.

Starbuck_II
2011-11-20, 11:05 PM
But I thought gloves should protect her.
I know he has scent too, but the touch affects should be blocked by the gloves.

Avilan the Grey
2011-11-20, 11:19 PM
But I thought gloves should protect her.
I know he has scent too, but the touch affects should be blocked by the gloves.

Did you SEE her face at the end?

Candle Jack
2011-11-21, 12:46 AM
To be fair, even if Nick knew that the ziegevolk's powers would work while it was unconscious (or possibly in a coma), what could he do in that situation? Walk up and put a few bullets in the guy? That's the problem with confronting these creatures in a public place with lots of witnesses and our protagonist being a police officer.

A couple of observations I've had:

1) This series really loves its punny names. First, the youngest Jagerbar was named Barry, and that blonde girl was named Gilda. Tonight, I had to laugh when I heard the ziegevolk's name was "Billy".

2) Trained police officers would know the best way to open a locked door without a ram is by kicking the handle, not hitting it with their shoulder. Do your research, writers.

3) Does anyone notice that Nick's girlfriend Juliette tends to wear a lot of red? She even wears a bright red dress in Nick's nightmare.

Lord Seth
2011-11-21, 10:31 PM
Full season announced for Grimm (http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2011/11/21/grimm-given-a-full-season-order-by-nbc-will-get-a-thursday-trial/111489/).

Bhu
2011-11-22, 04:54 AM
woot! :smallsmile:

irenicObserver
2011-11-26, 06:11 PM
To be fair, even if Nick knew that the ziegevolk's powers would work while it was unconscious (or possibly in a coma), what could he do in that situation? Walk up and put a few bullets in the guy? That's the problem with confronting these creatures in a public place with lots of witnesses and our protagonist being a police officer.

A couple of observations I've had:

1) This series really loves its punny names. First, the youngest Jagerbar was named Barry, and that blonde girl was named Gilda. Tonight, I had to laugh when I heard the ziegevolk's name was "Billy".

2) Trained police officers would know the best way to open a locked door without a ram is by kicking the handle, not hitting it with their shoulder. Do your research, writers.

3) Does anyone notice that Nick's girlfriend Juliette tends to wear a lot of red? She even wears a bright red dress in Nick's nightmare.

1) The bee lady was named Melissa and the satyr guy's last name was Capra

2) Good to know for real life :smallwink:

3) That right there seems like massive foreshadowing, along with the whole "it's big and it's coming for you" thing they're hinting at.

Bhu
2011-12-08, 05:41 PM
why did the show move to 10 pm on thursdays???

Emmerask
2011-12-08, 10:16 PM
According to the official website, so far we've seen bludbaten (werewolves), Jagerbars (werebears), hexenbiests (witches, or possibly goblins) and mellifers (bee people).

bludbaten - could refer to the german word blut (blood) though I´m not certain
jagerbars - jäger (hunter) and bär (bear)
hexenbiests - hexe (witch) and biest (beast) would indeed refer to a witch not a goblin

mellifers should be from Apis mellifera (scientific name) which is the ordinary honey bee

Anyway I really like the show so far :smallsmile:

/edit Oh I just saw that all this was already up on the wiki, my bad :smallredface:

Candle Jack
2011-12-09, 07:46 AM
why did the show move to 10 pm on thursdays???

Apparently there's two new episodes this week: one that aired last night ("Danse Macabre") and one on Friday ("The Three Bad Wolves").

Man, Grimms have a bad rep amongst fairy tale beasts.

Hiro Protagonest
2011-12-09, 12:53 PM
Well, I missed it yesterday, because I turned on the TV at 10 pm... and BHU has a different timezone. :smallannoyed:

Candle Jack
2011-12-09, 03:23 PM
It was decent. The story was a takeoff of the Pied Piper and the "monster" of the week was a rat man called a reinigen. The victim probably met the messiest end featured in the series thus far. (Not counting the jogger eaten by the blutbad mailman, since we never saw much of her remains.) However, the ending was a bit lackluster.

Mewtarthio
2011-12-09, 06:30 PM
In terms of things that are likely to have an impact on future episodes:

Hank is now dating Adalind Schade.

Candle Jack
2011-12-10, 03:28 AM
Hank is now dating Adalind Schade.

And Juliette got her first hint that something is up with Nick.

On tonight's episode: why didn't Nick just shoot that Blutbad chick? I would have.

Bhu
2011-12-10, 03:47 AM
prolly trying to live down his families rep

BRC
2011-12-11, 08:41 PM
I've always wondered why the "Monsters" (not quite the right word for them), are so terrified of Grimms. So far as I can tell, a Grimm has no special capabilities beyond "Can occasionally see through the human disguises". Most of the "monsters" seem to be pretty low-powered as these things go (most of them seem to be more human than anything else), but they still have special capabilities: super strength, really good sense of smell, ect, and they're only detectable if a Grimm happens to be looking at them during the few seconds where they shift out of their Human form.

I mean, let's compare the Grimm's counterparts from other shows.

In Buffy, the Slayer has boosted Strength, endurance, and reflexes. There is a network set up (The Watchers) to make sure each slayer is trained and is kept informed of how to defeat the various monsters she fights, and if one gets killed, another one just gets called. And yet, when Buffy shows up, most of the monsters respond by saying "Oh, the slayer, how adorable, I'll just kill her", Shortly before getting a stake to the heart.
In Supernatural, Hunters are ordinary humans, but they're half-insane rednecks who, by definition, want to kill any monster they find. The ones that don't have the right combination of weapons, skills, and intelligence die fast, meaning the ones who are still alive are very dangerous. When Hunters show up, most Monsters barely acknowledge them as being different from any other human.

In Grimm, a Grimm is an ordinary human who does not necessarily have any reason to kill Monsters (Unlike Slayers who have the Watchers giving them orders/Slayer Dreams and Hunters who are defined by having a reason to kill monsters), has no special training, and no abilities beyond "Can occasionally see through your disguise". Since nobody else can see through the disguises, they can't build up a support network. Nick wasn't told about the Grimm-ness until his aunt was about to die, Had he not become a cop he would have basically no relevant skills when it came to Grimming. He's got some books, but most of them just seem to be descriptions of behavior rather than special weaknesses.
Plus, unlike in Buffy and Supernatural, it seems like relatively few of the Grimm Monsters have any special need or compulsion to harm humans, so there is less reason for Grimms to be predisposed to murder.
And yet, there seems to be this idea that all Grimms are unstoppable trigger-happy murder machines out for blood. When the Rat-person refrigerator repairman saw that Nick was a Grimm (I'm not quite sure how they figure it out. So far as I can tell they just shift out of their disguise and anybody who reacts must be a Grimm) he runs away like he was expecting Nick to pull out a shotgun and blow him away right there.


Currently, the only thing I can think of is that there Is, or at least was, a network of Grimms that made sure they were all trained, supported, and motivated. For some reason, Nick has been raised outside that network (Maybe because it does not exist anymore?). I get that they're supposed to be the Boogeyman's Boogeyman, but so far I don't really see how they got that reputation.

Xondoure
2011-12-12, 02:10 AM
My guess is that the Grimm's do indeed have some way of keeping up with the monsters (for one he's wrestled with a few and the bludbatens can rip normal people's arms off.)

I also have a crackpot theory that Grimm's themselves have a monstrous true form, that the others can see but we haven't yet.

Bhu
2011-12-12, 02:58 AM
I also wonder if his gf is a grimm, she just hasnt told him yet

Candle Jack
2011-12-12, 02:58 PM
I myself have reflected on why the fairy tale monsters fear the Grimms. From all accounts, they were simply humans, albeit very skilled individuals who knew all about their monstrous counterparts.

For one, I think it's important to note that a Grimm's abilities are hereditary. Their bloodline could have been quite extensive. Unlike, say, the Slayer, there isn't just one Grimm in all the world; they could have operated all over Europe. And what's more, there are at least a few fairy tale monsters who collaborated with the Grimms.

What's more, Nick's ancestors seem to have taken a "kill 'em all" approach to certain monsters, particularly the Blutbaden. They even went so far as to take their lore and nested that knowledge in popular folklore, both to warn "mundane" humans and to give every would-be Grimm basic knowledge about the monsters.


When the Rat-person refrigerator repairman saw that Nick was a Grimm (I'm not quite sure how they figure it out. So far as I can tell they just shift out of their disguise and anybody who reacts must be a Grimm) he runs away like he was expecting Nick to pull out a shotgun and blow him away right there.

I think he was actually a beaver-man.

BRC
2011-12-12, 03:33 PM
I myself have reflected on why the fairy tale monsters fear the Grimms. From all accounts, they were simply humans, albeit very skilled individuals who knew all of the monsters' counterparts.\
That could be a very interesting angle to explore. Maybe most Grimms ARE highly competent monster hunters whose standard operating procedure is to assume all monsters are evil and go from there.
So far it seems like very few of the monster types are inherently evil, some of them may have evil complusions (Like Blutbads "Animalistic" instincts), but even then it seems like living as a normal member of society is the norm, rather than the exception. Even Crazy Wolf Lady didn't seem to mind that her brother wasn't running around at night tearing out throats.

What if Grimms have historically taken the "Few bad apples ruin the barrel" approach, and declared all-out war on any monsters they can find. The Reapers are not trying to wipe out the Grimms to ensure monster-dominance over humanity (the monsters seem far too fractious and disorganized for that anyway), they're trying to wipe out the Grimm's because the Grimms are trying to wipe them out.

I mean, just think about Captain Reaper. He sends blonde chick to kill Aunt Marie, but then he steps in to protect Nick. Why? Because he sees Nick as a way to end the war between Grimms and Monsters. Nick is more a Cop than a Grimm, while most Grimms grow up being told that their job is to kill monsters, Nick approaches the cases not like a hunter tracking down prey, but like a cop with some extra information (And a disregard for the law, but whatever). His first goal is to find the truth and punish the monsters, as much as possible, within the bounds of the law.

Maybe this is Captain Reaper's end goal, to make Nick-style Grimming the standard. Grimm's have clearly proven themselves capable of keeping the monster community in check, and it seems like most monsters would rather live in peace with humanity than eat/dominate it.
Aunt Marie was attacked because she was a Grimm of the old sort. Captain Man knew that Nick was a Grimm beforehand, and had been carefully grooming him to serve as an example, both to monsters as a Grimm you don't need to fear, and to other Grimms as a way to interact peacefully with monsters. When Aunt Marie showed up, she had to be eliminated before she gave her traditional Grimm's eye view of the world and turned Nick into Monster Killer #452.

Candle Jack
2012-02-08, 01:56 PM
Is it thread necromancy to resurrect a thread about an ongoing series that's simply been inactive for a while? Well, no matter. RAISE THREAD!

So, anyone still watching this series? I was particularly glad that the last episode showed Nick kicking ass for a change, as up until now he hadn't really defeated any of the creatures that wasn't already tackling another opponent. (Hell, even Juliette was starting to show him up.)

Bhu
2012-02-08, 05:42 PM
I'm still watching. I'm curious to see where they're taking this and hoping they dont mess it up

BRC
2012-02-09, 05:51 PM
Is it thread necromancy to resurrect a thread about an ongoing series that's simply been inactive for a while? Well, no matter. RAISE THREAD!

So, anyone still watching this series? I was particularly glad that the last episode showed Nick kicking ass for a change, as up until now he hadn't really defeated any of the creatures that wasn't already tackling another opponent. (Hell, even Juliette was starting to show him up.)
I liked the last episode too. A lot of this show seems to be a standard police procedural where they point to a couple key players and say "By the way, these guys are monsters". The Episode with the Rat kid could have worked just as well if it was about a human until the finale. The Mouse-and-Snake episode would have worked just fine if you replaced the mouse with a timid guy and the Snake with a garden variety jerk. Heck, even the BBW in the first episode could have just been a standard creep, The Pigs and Wolves episode could have told the same story with both families being human and feuding because somebody shot somebody else's dog a hundred years ago.
The Ogre, drop the subplot about the Poison and replace him with a normal big, really tough angry guy.


also, we're finally getting into what looks like an interesting arc. Police Chief man trying to groom Nick as a new type of Grimm, one with more on his mind than just murdering everything. We've already gotten a pretty good idea that Grimms are, historically speaking, trigger-happy monster killers. I'm waiting for the episode where an old-school Grimm comes to town and clashes with Nick over his methods.

Candle Jack
2012-02-10, 01:46 AM
also, we're finally getting into what looks like an interesting arc. Police Chief man trying to groom Nick as a new type of Grimm, one with more on his mind than just murdering everything.

I know the prevailing theory is that Renard is actually Reynardine the Fox, but having now seen an actual fox creature in the show, I'm kind of wondering if he's not actually Puss in Boots (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puss_in_Boots), or whatever the Grimm equivalent may be. I know Renard is French for fox and I know the story of Reynardine is (in part) a French myth, but his personality seems to be more fitting of a mystical animal helper like Puss in Boots.

Whatever he is, he possesses incredible control over his "other side," as he has not let it slip out once around Nick.

Hiro Protagonest
2012-02-10, 12:32 PM
I know the prevailing theory is that Renard is actually Reynardine the Fox, but having now seen an actual fox creature in the show, I'm kind of wondering if he's not actually Puss in Boots (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puss_in_Boots), or whatever the Grimm equivalent may be. I know Renard is French for fox and I know the story of Reynardine is (in part) a French myth, but his personality seems to be more fitting of a mystical animal helper like Puss in Boots.

Whatever he is, he possesses incredible control over his "other side," as he has not let it slip out once around Nick.

Actually, he's a human, according to the wiki.

Bhu
2012-02-10, 02:14 PM
He's got something going for him then if he can kick a reapers ass being a normal guy

Edit: This weeks interpretation of the Jorogumo was pretty nice. Looks like next week they get to fight the Gorn!

Lord Seth
2012-03-17, 04:48 PM
Figured I might as well mention that the show's been renewed for a second season. Not really a surprise, but now it's official.

Starbuck_II
2012-03-17, 05:50 PM
I've always wondered why the "Monsters" (not quite the right word for them), are so terrified of Grimms. So far as I can tell, a Grimm has no special capabilities beyond "Can occasionally see through the human disguises". Most of the "monsters" seem to be pretty low-powered as these things go (most of them seem to be more human than anything else), but they still have special capabilities: super strength, really good sense of smell, ect, and they're only detectable if a Grimm happens to be looking at them during the few seconds where they shift out of their Human form.


Probably in the old days: you killed monsters because they were monsters. People killed dragons not because they stole princesses, but because they had gold often.

Candle Jack
2012-08-21, 02:24 PM
ARISE, THREAD LONG SINCE DEAD, AND HAUNT THE FORUMS ONCE AGAIN!

So, anyone catching Season 2?

Thinker
2012-08-21, 02:55 PM
ARISE, THREAD LONG SINCE DEAD, AND HAUNT THE FORUMS ONCE AGAIN!

So, anyone catching Season 2?

I hadn't realized it was back on the air. Thanks.

Mewtarthio
2012-08-21, 03:21 PM
Currently working through Season 1, actually. I'm... a bit behind, you see.

Starbuck_II
2012-08-21, 04:08 PM
ARISE, THREAD LONG SINCE DEAD, AND HAUNT THE FORUMS ONCE AGAIN!

So, anyone catching Season 2?

Yeah, I see that other Grimms are more ruthless than our hero: no wonder they fear them.

Hiro Protagonest
2012-08-21, 05:57 PM
Yeah, I see that other Grimms are more ruthless than our hero: no wonder they fear them.

It's been implied since the start that Nick's different from the others. He's got a moral compass, no special conditioning, and one of the first guys he encountered was Monroe.

Avilan the Grey
2012-08-22, 01:43 AM
It's been implied since the start that Nick's different from the others. He's got a moral compass, no special conditioning, and one of the first guys he encountered was Monroe.

I have to wonder though how many of the Grimms that still work for the royal families? It seems his aunt was at least half-way to where he is (her telling him "you have to kill the bad ones") and at least kind of accepting Monroe as her bodyguard while his mother on the other hand both seems fairly casual towards the idea of working for the royals, and trying to kill Monroe and (damn I can't remember her name, the REALLY REALLY cute foxy girl) without even some posturing first.

Xondoure
2012-08-22, 01:56 AM
Rosalie :smallwink:.

Also, is the new intro driving everyone else crazy? I'm not sure I can keep watching if I have to be subjected to that.

One Tin Soldier
2012-08-22, 11:09 AM
It seems like season 2 is getting an expansion of scope. I like this.

Though I'm really worried about the whole amnesia thing. Amnesia is used as a reset button waaaaaaay too often.

Candle Jack
2012-08-22, 11:55 AM
Also, is the new intro driving everyone else crazy? I'm not sure I can keep watching if I have to be subjected to that.

I find the new intro odd, but not so bad that it will keep me from watching.

Xondoure
2012-08-22, 12:37 PM
I find the new intro odd, but not so bad that it will keep me from watching.

It's worse than the first season of Buffy. Yeah, I'll keep watching, but I don't understand what sort of twisted TV logic makes that a good idea. What was wrong with the old one with the skull flash? That at least carried better tones.

Lord Seth
2012-08-22, 12:55 PM
Also, is the new intro driving everyone else crazy? I'm not sure I can keep watching if I have to be subjected to that.It could use improvement, but I think it's a lot better than the first intro at actually conveying the basic premise to people. One thing I was always struck by was the fact that the show never really explains the premise to you outside of the initial episode and kind of just assumes you know it. The different theme song helps on on that.

Of course, they could just do "previously on Grimm" instead...

Avilan the Grey
2012-08-23, 01:52 AM
Rosalie :smallwink:.

Also, is the new intro driving everyone else crazy? I'm not sure I can keep watching if I have to be subjected to that.

Yes I hate it.

And Rosalie... Hmm. I wonder how many times she has been called a vixen. :smallwink::smallbiggrin::smalltongue:

Hiro Protagonest
2012-08-28, 02:32 PM
So, since Monroe revealed wolf-form once, now Hank can always see them? I'm thinking it works sorta like the awakening in the Bibliography webcomic.

I wonder if that's how the Grimm bloodline started, as well as whatever other bloodlines there are (such as the Japanese one with the guy who provided the information he'd gathered about one of the spider-types).

Candle Jack
2012-08-28, 03:48 PM
As I understand it, a wesen can show its true face to anyone and will often do so when it's about to chow down on some poor bastard. But a wesen's mask will sometimes slip a little whenever they're upset, and only a Grimm is capable of noticing that change.

Last Episode spoilers:

That girl in "Bad Moon Rising" revealed her coyotl face because she was afraid of Nick, and that elder coyotl was clearly counting on freaking out both Hank and Nick by changing form in front of them.

Hiro Protagonest
2012-08-28, 04:11 PM
I only see the reasoning for the older Coyotl. And even then, he gets the power boost whether he decides to let it slip to non-Grimms or not, and if he has that mindset, then he's risking the entire masquerade.

The girl is far less likely. Shifting with the intention of revealing herself, rather than just letting her emotions get to her, doesn't make sense. It's a natural defense mechanism, and revealing herself to non-Grimms is a conscious choice, otherwise any old human could see a blutbad's wolf form whenever his instincts act up.

Xondoure
2012-08-30, 05:24 PM
I only see the reasoning for the older Coyotl. And even then, he gets the power boost whether he decides to let it slip to non-Grimms or not, and if he has that mindset, then he's risking the entire masquerade.

The girl is far less likely. Shifting with the intention of revealing herself, rather than just letting her emotions get to her, doesn't make sense. It's a natural defense mechanism, and revealing herself to non-Grimms is a conscious choice, otherwise any old human could see a blutbad's wolf form whenever his instincts act up.

She probably has very little experience with her wesen side, and therefore didn't know how to hide the freak out.

Also, I'm not convinced Grimm aren't "human" wesen. I don't know why, but I have the nagging feeling when people freak out it's because they see his mask slip.

Hiro Protagonest
2012-08-30, 08:20 PM
She probably has very little experience with her wesen side, and therefore didn't know how to hide the freak out.

It's always seemed to be the other way around. Monroe said that they can choose to let the masquerade unravel. I think that the default is "can't see", and you have to purposely reveal yourself to non-Grimms. Otherwise kids probably wouldn't have to learn to be afraid of Grimms specifically. And Carly's what, 12? At that age, she's probably had years since she first shifted.

And I doubt Grimms have monster sides. The mouse guy neighbor, IIRC, said he knew that Nick's house was a Grimm's house because he could smell it. Carly probably saw the look on Nick's face when her eyes changed to yellow.

SiuiS
2012-08-30, 08:39 PM
Rosalie :smallwink:.

Also, is the new intro driving everyone else crazy? I'm not sure I can keep watching if I have to be subjected to that.

Yeah. It's a bad as the last season of Doctor Who :smallsigh:


So, since Monroe revealed wolf-form once, now Hank can always see them? I'm thinking it works sorta like the awakening in the Bibliography webcomic.

That's not quite the impression that I got.

A wesen is an actual, died-in-the-wool therianthropic critter. They can physically change. So every time they do physically change, it's obvious to everyone. What makes a grimm special is a combination of psychological resilience, improved physical attributes and detective ability, and the ability to pick up signs of wesen before they actually change.

The yellow eyes, that seemed like a mask-only change. Freaking out because it's a Grimm and is gonna kill her! That was a full on "my life is worth more than the mask" shift. And that is what Hank saw. Hank also saw the entire gang creatured out, and when he didn't freak they figured they were screwed. Guns are still guns, right?

No, whenever a wesen transforms, they expect the shock to damage their target's minds, or at least provide a startle they can utilize. Hank is a good cop. They are trained not to let shock value affect them, and faith goes a hell of a long way to bolstering the mind and spirit. "It's okay, I see them too, I'll explain later, trust me" is all you'd need not to question your own sanity.

The real question is, now, what long term affects are there? Hallucinations won't go away easy; he is just aware that there are patterns behind which are real and which are hallucinations.


I wonder if that's how the Grimm bloodline started, as well as whatever other bloodlines there are (such as the Japanese one with the guy who provided the information he'd gathered about one of the spider-types).

Maybe, but I don't think so. Who knows?


I only see the reasoning for the older Coyotl. And even then, he gets the power boost whether he decides to let it slip to non-Grimms or not, and if he has that mindset, then he's risking the entire masquerade.

We don't actually know this. The change may be a side effect of the power boost; Monroe is a man of self control, and even he has slipped on occasion. Just like some people have trouble moving just their pinkie toe, or crossing one eye but not the other, or isolating any other Radom physiological feature from a related one, it's possible that most wesen don't care enough to avoid the risk. By the time you are murdering someone, does looking human really matter? Especially since you need to shift for teeth and claws, and the mind break is a useful weapon in its own right.


It's always seemed to be the other way around. Monroe said that they can choose to let the masquerade unravel. I think that the default is "can't see", and you have to purposely reveal yourself to non-Grimms. Otherwise kids probably wouldn't have to learn to be afraid of Grimms specifically. And Carly's what, 12? At that age, she's probably had years since she first shifted.

And I doubt Grimms have monster sides. The mouse guy neighbor, IIRC, said he knew that Nick's house was a Grimm's house because he could smell it. Carly probably saw the look on Nick's face when her eyes changed to yellow.

Doesn't that mean that there is a tangible, chemical difference between Grimms and regular humans? I mean, of they smell different, it's probably not just some psychic power.

We don't know though. I too, think its just Nick's lack of reaction. The only thing a wesen knows won't freak out when they shift is a Grimm, and tat is because they are too busy killing you.

-

I am liking that they are indeed playing up the who you are versus who others feel you should be angle. Te only consistent villains, on both sides, are the ones who put their heads down, don't make a fuss, and don't stand or anything. The good guys are the ones not constrained by their positions - Monroe, the vegetarian werewolf, Nick, the Grimm whose police training and moral compass aren't commandeered by his heritage, and even seemingly the captain, who reviles the usual "Us or Them" mentality everyone else plays by.

Hiro Protagonest
2012-08-30, 08:56 PM
A wesen is an actual, died-in-the-wool therianthropic critter. They can physically change. So every time they do physically change, it's obvious to everyone. What makes a grimm special is a combination of psychological resilience, improved physical attributes and detective ability, and the ability to pick up signs of wesen before they actually change.

:confused:

What show have you been watching? Nick is skilled at being a detective because he's been trained as a detective. He has shown no signs of being more skilled at investigation or firearms than Hank, and Hank also punched a Coyotl rushing at him, so it's gray in hand-to-hand too. When Nick saw Monroe shift for the first time, it wasn't yellow wolf eyes and bared fangs, it was a full-on change as Monroe fought his urges.

SiuiS
2012-08-30, 09:12 PM
:confused:

What show have you been watching? Nick is skilled at being a detective because he's been trained as a detective. He has shown no signs of being more skilled at investigation or firearms than Hank, and Hank also punched a Coyotl rushing at him, so it's gray in hand-to-hand too. When Nick saw Monroe shift for the first time, it wasn't yellow wolf eyes and bared fangs, it was a full-on change as Monroe fought his urges.

During the pilot they comment on how Nick has always been good at seeing things, and that is why he's a good detective, not the other way around.

Monroe is not a seventeen year old coyotl girl, so what's you point there?

Nicks entre family demonstrate martial art skill beyond what a detective woul normally have. Nick never references learning anywhere, and te fighting he does is very much not anything taught by an American law enforcement agency.

Candle Jack
2012-08-30, 11:38 PM
Grimms do seem to have superhuman strength and agility. He held up pretty well in the gladiatoral cage during Last Grimm Standing, he dodged the attacks of two reapers in Leave It To Beavers, and in Bad Teeth, he manages to go toe to toe with the mauvais dentes, who slaughtered several armed guards and FBI agents.

Avilan the Grey
2012-08-31, 01:43 AM
Grimms do seem to have superhuman strength and agility. He held up pretty well in the gladiatoral cage during Last Grimm Standing, he dodged the attacks of two reapers in Leave It To Beavers, and in Bad Teeth, he manages to go toe to toe with the mauvais dentes, who slaughtered several armed guards and FBI agents.

Indeed. He is, as far as we know, actually STRONGER than Monroe.
And yes, it is explained, in detail several times that the Wesen can choose to be seen; it is a change that is deliberate unless under extreme stress (realizing you are standing face to face with a Grimm). My question is if all Wesen can go full animal form, or just the Jagerbears? The mom was in "pure bear form" at the end, not just letting someone see her "bear face".

Maelstrom
2012-08-31, 04:39 AM
y. And Carly's what, 12? At that age, she's probably had years since she first shifted..

It's mentioned in the episode that she is 17.

Starbuck_II
2012-08-31, 09:39 AM
Grimms do seem to have superhuman strength and agility. He held up pretty well in the gladiatoral cage during Last Grimm Standing, he dodged the attacks of two reapers in Leave It To Beavers, and in Bad Teeth, he manages to go toe to toe with the mauvais dentes, who slaughtered several armed guards and FBI agents.

But the super human abilities constant or does happen randomly when in danger?

Candle Jack
2012-09-04, 02:12 PM
I was kind of surprised at the most recent episode.

The show generally trades in a lot of black humor, but Adalind's cat escaping and then immediately getting run over was surprisingly dark.

Hiro Protagonest
2012-09-04, 04:10 PM
I was kind of surprised at the most recent episode.

The show generally trades in a lot of black humor, but Adalind's cat escaping and then immediately getting run over was surprisingly dark.

I thought it sounded more like the cat jumped onto the car, or the car managed to swerve/brake just in time and the cat yowled in indignation. I'm pretty sure the cat's yowl came after the car screeching.

Candle Jack
2012-09-04, 05:10 PM
That's a "slam on the brakes" screech and a poor cat screech (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThatPoorCat). I think it's safe to say it's gone to kitty heaven.

Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, since it was a cursed witch's cat. One can only hope it doesn't come back, though it would be a good reason for Munroe to cry "We thought it was a goner!"

Feytalist
2012-09-05, 02:00 AM
Finally got caught up with the new season. Whoa. A lot's happened in a very short while. And I'd still like to know what the uber plot is (other than "get the key", obviously).



Also, I'm not convinced Grimm aren't "human" wesen. I don't know why, but I have the nagging feeling when people freak out it's because they see his mask slip.

I'm very much on board with this idea. The idea of the Grimm as "just another monster" appeals to my cynic side, heh.

BRC
2012-09-06, 11:52 AM
Finally got caught up with the new season. Whoa. A lot's happened in a very short while. And I'd still like to know what the uber plot is (other than "get the key", obviously).




I'm very much on board with this idea. The idea of the Grimm as "just another monster" appeals to my cynic side, heh.
Maybe Grimm's have a CGI monster face just like everybody else, with the unique bit that they don't know when it appears/can't see their own CGI faces. Every time Nick gets surprised by somebody showing their Wesenface, he lets his guard down and his face shows, which is how they detect that he is a Grimm.

BRC
2012-09-06, 11:54 AM
Finally got caught up with the new season. Whoa. A lot's happened in a very short while. And I'd still like to know what the uber plot is (other than "get the key", obviously).




I'm very much on board with this idea. The idea of the Grimm as "just another monster" appeals to my cynic side, heh.
Maybe Grimm's have a CGI monster face just like everybody else, with the unique bit that they don't know when it appears/can't see their own CGI faces. Every time Nick gets surprised by somebody showing their Wesenface, he lets his guard down and his face shows, which is how they detect that he is a Grimm.

JoeMac307
2012-09-06, 12:38 PM
Rosalie :smallwink:.

Also, is the new intro driving everyone else crazy? I'm not sure I can keep watching if I have to be subjected to that.

DVR -> Fast Forward -> I don't have to watch the intro


She probably has very little experience with her wesen side, and therefore didn't know how to hide the freak out.

Also, I'm not convinced Grimm aren't "human" wesen. I don't know why, but I have the nagging feeling when people freak out it's because they see his mask slip.

I like that theory. That would make a lot of sense to me. It seems I'm in the minority though.


Grimms do seem to have superhuman strength and agility. He held up pretty well in the gladiatoral cage during Last Grimm Standing, he dodged the attacks of two reapers in Leave It To Beavers, and in Bad Teeth, he manages to go toe to toe with the mauvais dentes, who slaughtered several armed guards and FBI agents.

Not to mention his mother fights and moves like some type of super-ninja, despite the fact that she's gotta be in her 50s or so.

Hiro Protagonest
2012-09-06, 12:47 PM
Maybe Grimm's have a CGI monster face just like everybody else, with the unique bit that they don't know when it appears/can't see their own CGI faces. Every time Nick gets surprised by somebody showing their Wesenface, he lets his guard down and his face shows, which is how they detect that he is a Grimm.
Then how do you explain mouse neighbor? He knew Nick was a Grimm just by going to his house. Monroe never even looked at Nick when Nick fiest saw him, IIRC, but he must've known just from a scent.

Not to mention his mother fights and moves like some type of super-ninja, despite the fact that she's gotta be in her 50s or so.

This is action TV. You really think that thirty years of Grimm work hasn't more than made up for her age in this genre?

Candle Jack
2012-09-06, 01:09 PM
I noticed in the last episode that the narration over the intro seems to have been dropped. Now it's just spooky music.

JoeMac307
2012-09-06, 01:54 PM
This is action TV. You really think that thirty years of Grimm work hasn't more than made up for her age in this genre?

I'm not convinced that it is just 30 years of experience, and not some type of supernatural ability. I think his Mom is portrayed as being much faster and stronger than human.

Avilan the Grey
2012-09-06, 03:39 PM
I'm not convinced that it is just 30 years of experience, and not some type of supernatural ability. I think his Mom is portrayed as being much faster and stronger than human.

That has already been established. Nick is stronger, or at least equal in strength, to Monroe. We saw that first season.

JoeMac307
2012-09-06, 06:23 PM
That has already been established. Nick is stronger, or at least equal in strength, to Monroe. We saw that first season.

Ya got me convinced... now you just have to convince Jade Dragon :smallsmile:

Feytalist
2012-09-07, 01:39 AM
Seems the next episode only airs in like 3 weeks' time. Any US-specific reason for that?

JoeMac307
2012-09-07, 07:46 AM
I'm not sure why that would be the case... although it is like the only non-Summer show that has premiered so far in the US that I can think of... I found it weird that is started broadcasting new episodes so much earlier than all the other shows. I'm not sure what their strategy was with that.

nightwyrm
2012-09-07, 04:13 PM
Maybe they thought they won't be able to compete with the other new shows premiering in Sept.

Xondoure
2012-09-07, 05:11 PM
Probably just to gain an early hype push, people are desperate for television this time of year.

Lord Seth
2012-09-08, 02:28 AM
I'm not sure why that would be the case... although it is like the only non-Summer show that has premiered so far in the US that I can think of... I found it weird that is started broadcasting new episodes so much earlier than all the other shows. I'm not sure what their strategy was with that.Probably hope that the Olympics might give it exposure.

JoeMac307
2012-09-08, 06:16 AM
Huh, I didn't make any connection to the Olympics, but that could be it. They are both on the same network? I forget

SiuiS
2012-09-11, 01:16 AM
But the super human abilities constant or does happen randomly when in danger?

Impossible to tell; if someone has supernatural fight power, how do you test that outside of a fight situation?

The first episode had Hank comment on how Nick continues I amaze him with his almost inhuman level of detective skill. Hank seemingly attributed it to Nik not having given in to complacency like most cops do, but then hank manage to go toe to toe with things that a human shouldn't. Now, there is a lot of interplay here that is hard to untangle:

Monroe is the first wesen we encounter; he's a big bad wolf. You know, the kind that couldn't get a nine-year old? Being first, being nicest, and having a pack full of Lame-Os and such make him look work. Middle of the road. We see this against the gladiator; he can hold his own but doesn't have an advantage.

Then the Bloodhound guy (hundjaeger?) who is basically a nazi and everyone is afraid of him. He shoots the snake in the bar, no problem. Rosalie kowtows to him. Everyone and everything says this guy is bad news. And when he realizes he's fighting a Blutbad he basically poops himself.

Is Monroe strong an portrayed as normal? Is this guy weak and portrayed as strong? How does nick stack up? We can't know for certain. Someone is getting the ward treatment, of being declared strong over and vet, and then being handily beaten to show this other guy is tougher, but who? Or maybe it's the reverse, where someone is supposedly weak and meek an is instead kickin ass.

Okay, there's that. Strength is hard to test. Dexterity though; Nick routinely competes in HtH against creatures who's reflexes are supposed to be faster than a human's. Oddly, there is an explanation for this! A guy who, since he started puberty, has always been stronger than his fellows doesn't fight well, he gifts hard. Heavy weight MMA fights are slugfest a of powerblows, where welterweight fights are beautifully technical, lead in, faint step-pivot-counter blow; Nick doesn't need to be as agile as a wesen, he just needs to know how to fight better that they do. Superiority breeds cockiness. Nick isn't surprised at their transformation, he isn't reserving part of his mind for escape avenues, he isn't even interpolating whether lethal force is necessary. He's block wide swings and wearing them down.

Except for dodging two men with pole arms. That was pretty dexterous.

And then there is hardiness. I know Nick gets knocked around. But he doesn't seem all that tough, just determined. But his Aunt? Fighting cancer, drugged, on the verge of death, and still able to handle the family business. That's something.


Then how do you explain mouse neighbor? He knew Nick was a Grimm just by going to his house. Monroe never even looked at Nick when Nick fiest saw him, IIRC, but he must've known just from a scent.


This I agree with.


This is action TV. You really think that thirty years of Grimm work hasn't more than made up for her age in this genre?

And this I do not. While that is true, I think they are purposefully establishing the Grimm line as a cut above. Maybe not superhuman, but definitely peak human. I think they cast his mother as slim, lean and angry looking because that's what a Grimm is when they don't have a comfy life.

Xondoure
2012-09-11, 04:21 AM
Then how do you explain mouse neighbor? He knew Nick was a Grimm just by going to his house. Monroe never even looked at Nick when Nick fiest saw him, IIRC, but he must've known just from a scent.


This is action TV. You really think that thirty years of Grimm work hasn't more than made up for her age in this genre?

Why would having a smell rule out having a mask? :smallconfused:

Starbuck_II
2012-09-11, 11:34 AM
Is Monroe strong an portrayed as normal?
Okay, there's that. Strength is hard to test.


Now, we saw Monroe pull a guy's arm off when Nick's aunt was in hospital. Nick never did this. Does this mean the guy had a weak arm, was Monroe extra strong that night, or does this mean Monroe's strength fluctuates too?

Xondoure
2012-09-11, 03:05 PM
Now, we saw Monroe pull a guy's arm off when Nick's aunt was in hospital. Nick never did this. Does this mean the guy had a weak arm, was Monroe extra strong that night, or does this mean Monroe's strength fluctuates too?

Quite possible it shifts with the moon.

Candle Jack
2012-09-11, 03:12 PM
Monroe is the first wesen we encounter; he's a big bad wolf. You know, the kind that couldn't get a nine-year old.

In the original story, the Big Bad Wolf eats both Little Red Riding Hood and her grandmother. The lumberjack cuts them both out of the wolf with his axe. The moral of the story, as with most Grimm fairy tales, is that life is an unending horror and you should pray for the mercy of a quick death. Or something.

Avilan the Grey
2012-09-12, 02:05 AM
In the original story, the Big Bad Wolf eats both Little Red Riding Hood and her grandmother. The lumberjack cuts them both out of the wolf with his axe. The moral of the story, as with most Grimm fairy tales, is that life is an unending horror and you should pray for the mercy of a quick death. Or something.

Yes, the wolf is large enough to swallow them both whole. The lumberjack cuts them out, puts huge rocks into the wolf's belly and dump him in a well(?) while still alive despite having his stomach cut open and sawn shut with huge boulders in it.

JoeMac307
2012-09-12, 08:05 AM
Yes, the wolf is large enough to swallow them both whole. The lumberjack cuts them out, puts huge rocks into the wolf's belly and dump him in a well(?) while still alive despite having his stomach cut open and sawn shut with huge boulders in it.

It's okay, he got better (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnexplainedRecovery?from=Main.IGotBetter) and married Snow White (http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Bigby_Wolf_(Fables)) and now they have a whole pack of half-wolf/half-human children.

SiuiS
2012-09-12, 08:53 AM
Why would having a smell rule out having a mask? :smallconfused:

It doesn't. But between 'Grimms are humans' and 'Grimms are wesen', having a scent which can identify your entire family line, to a bunch of creatures which have never before met one of you? That sounds like proof the Grimms are not quite human. It's not about mask v no mask, so much as man v/ monster. And it points toward monster.


Now, we saw Monroe pull a guy's arm off when Nick's aunt was in hospital. Nick never did this. Does this mean the guy had a weak arm, was Monroe extra strong that night, or does this mean Monroe's strength fluctuates too?

Well, I'm pretty certain their strength does fluctuate, and they are stronger in full creature form. Using tat strength without undergoing the change probably requires discipline and practice. But that's beside the point...

Monroe pulls off a man's arm. With aplomb. So without any gross displays, we get the "Monroe is powerful" message. That's fine. It's web you plug it into every interaction, that we begin to lose track of whether Monroe is super strong, nick is strong, etc. how much force does it take to remove an arm? Are wesen more resilient, more resistant to each other? Why dd Adelinde's mother go through volge when threatening Rosalie? Did she get stronger? Couldn't Rosalie do the same and resist?

It's a tangle of mixed signals. They seem to have an answer, but we don't have all the information yet.


It's okay, he got better (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnexplainedRecovery?from=Main.IGotBetter) and married Snow White (http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Bigby_Wolf_(Fables)) and now they have a whole pack of half-wolf/half-human children.

thank goodness! Happy endings are so rare in modern fairytales.