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Gnorman
2011-10-18, 07:02 AM
The Poet

http://i961.photobucket.com/albums/ae96/Elendil2/37244595.jpg

HD: d8
Class Skills: Appraise, Balance, Bluff, Craft, Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Disguise, Escape Artist, Forgery, Gather Information, Hide, Intimidate, Knowledge (all), Listen, Move Silently, Perform, Profession, Search, Sense Motive, Speak Language, Sleight of Hand, Spot, Tumble. Use Magic Device
Skill Points: 6 + Int per level (4x at 1st)

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|0|1|2

1st|+0|+0|+2|+2|Archetype, Inspiration, Eye of Newt|3|-|-

2nd|+1|+0|+3|+3|Lesser Archetype Power|4|1|-

3rd|+2|+1|+3|+3|Once More Unto the Breach|4|2|-

4th|+3|+1|+4|+4|Moderate Archetype Power|4|3|1

5th|+3|+1|+4|+4|A Charmed Life|4|4|2

6th|+4|+2|+5|+5|Greater Archetype Power, Out of the Jaws of Death|4|4|3[/table]

Proficiencies: The poet is proficient with light armor and shields (except tower shields). He is proficient with simple and martial weapons.

Archetype: At 1st level, the poet chooses an archetype from the list below. He gains the advantages and abilities of the archetype at the appropriate levels, as indicated in the list. Once made, this choice is final.

Inspiration: At 1st level, the poet gains the ability to use bardic music (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/bard.htm#bardicMusic) as a bard of his class level, with the caveat that he does not need to meet the Perform skill requirement to use the abilities. He does not, however, gain the ability to use Countersong. He may use this ability a number of times per day equal to his poet level plus his Charisma modifier.

Eye of Newt: At 1st level, the poet gains a limited ability to cast spells. At 1st level, he chooses two of the five mage classes (Black Mage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215165), Blue Mage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215876), Green Mage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215432), Red Mage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215306), and White Mage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215538)), and may use the spell lists of the two he chooses. This choice is permanent. He may not cast spells given by archetypes. These spells are considered arcane, and the poet need not prepare them beforehand - he may spontaneously cast any spell drawn from his two chosen lists. His sole casting stat is Charisma, which dictates both the DC of the spell in question and his bonus spells. To cast a spell, the poet must have a Charisma score equal to 10 + the level of the spell in question. The poet does not suffer from arcane spell failure while wearing light armor or equipped with a shield (except tower shields).

Lesser Archetype Power: At 2nd level, the poet gains the appropriate power for his archetype.

Once More Unto the Breach: At 3rd level, the poet may spend one use of his Inspiration to give all allies (including himself) within 30 feet fast healing 1. This lasts for as long as the poet concentrates, and five rounds after. At 6th level, this ability grants fast healing 2.

Moderate Archetype Power: At 4th level, the poet gains the appropriate power for his archetype.

A Charmed Life: At 5th level, a poet can no longer roll a natural one on anything - if he does, he immediately gains a free reroll. He must abide by the results of the reroll, unless it is another one. In addition, anytime he rolls a natural twenty, he gains a +2 luck bonus to attack rolls, damage rolls, armor class, saving throws, and skill checks for the next three rounds.

Greater Archetype Power: At 6th level, the poet gains the appropriate power for his archetype.

Out of the Jaws of Death: At 6th level, three times per day, the poet may restore his class level times his Charisma modifier in hit points to any ally within 30 feet who has just dropped below 1 hit point as an immediate action.


Archetypes:

Banshee
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ghostwalk_gallery/88566_620_88.jpg
Lesser Archetype Power: A banshee becomes immune to silence or deafening (unless somehow desired). A banshee may spend one use of his Inspiration ability to deal sonic damage equal to his Charisma modifier multiplied by his class level to all opponents in a 15 foot radius (centered on himself). A banshee may only spend Inspiration in this way three times per day.
Moderate Archetype Power: A banshee may spend two uses of his Inspiration ability to target one opponent within hearing range. This ability does sonic damage equal to the banshee's Charisma modifier each round and deafens the opponent with no save. This ability lasts as long as the banshee concentrates. If desired, the banshee may instead use this ability against unattended objects - the sonic damage ignores the object's hardness.
Greater Archetype Power: A banshee's lesser archetype power now stuns opponents for one round unless they make a Will save, with the DC equal to 10 + half the banshee's HD + the banshee's Charisma modifier.


Bravado
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqa85gBzKh1r0hx8lo1_500.png

Lesser Archetype Power: A bravado takes no penalties for fighting with two weapons, even if his off-hand weapon isn't light or he does not possess two-weapon fighting. In addition, a bravado may spend one use of his Inspiration ability to give all allies (including himself) within 30 feet a 1d4 bonus on melee damage rolls. The type of this damage is equal to the type of damage that the ally's weapon inflicts. This lasts for as long as the poet concentrates, and five rounds after. This bonus increases to 2d4 at 4th level and 3d4 at 6th level. A bravado may only use Inspiration in this way three times per day.
Moderate Archetype Power: If a bravado is attacked in melee and the attack misses, the bravado may immediately make one melee attack against the opponent who missed - if he is wielding two weapons, he may attack with both. He may now also add his full Strength modifier to his off-hand attacks.
Greater Archetype Power: On a charge, a bravado may make one attack (with both weapons, if applicable) against all opponents who come within their reach on the charge. Each attack is resolved separately.


Doomsinger
http://images.wikia.com/dungeons/images/7/77/Dirgesinger.jpg

Lesser Archetype Power: A doomsinger may spend one use of his Inspiration ability to give all opponents within 30 feet a -1 penalty to all saves. This penalty lasts for as long as the poet concentrates, and five rounds after. This penalty increases to -2 at 4th level and -3 at 6th level. A doomsinger may only use Inspiration in this way three times per day.
Moderate Archetype Power: A doomsinger's attacks are imbued with the power of death, doing +1d6 negative energy damage. Any ally under the effects of his Inspire Courage ability also gain this benefit. At 6th level, the damage increases to 2d6.
Greater Archetype Power: A doomsinger may spend two uses of his Inspiration ability to reanimate a corpse as a skeleton or a zombie. This ability only functions on corporeal creatures of up to 8 HD with skeletal structures. This ability lasts as long as the doomsinger concentrates, and five rounds after, after which the corpse falls dead, unable to be reanimated. The doomsinger may only animate one corpse at a time.


Skald
http://atlante.unimondo.org/var/unimondo/storage/images/paesi/europa/europa-settentrionale/svezia/popoli/vichingo/578943-1-ita-IT/vichingo_large.jpg

Lesser Archetype Power: A skald gains proficiency with medium armor (and may ignore arcane spell failure while wearing it) and becomes immune to fear. A skald may also spend one use of his Inspiration ability to give all allies within 30 feet a +2 bonus to AC. This bonus lasts as long as the poet concentrates and for five rounds after. This bonus increases to +3 at 4th level and +4 at 6th. A skald may only use Inspiration in this way three times per day.
Moderate Archetype Power: The bonuses given by a skald's inspire courage ability increase by 1, and the bonus given by his inspire competence ability increases to +4.
Greater Archetype Power: A skald may spend two uses of his Inspiration ability to inspire greatness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/bard.htm#inspireGreatness) as if he were a bard of 9th level. In addition, his inspire courage ability now grants immunity to fear.


Trickster
http://cs11280.vkontakte.ru/u7637620/-6/x_1441edd6.jpg

Lesser Archetype Power: A trickster may spend one use of his Inspiration ability to give all opponents within 30 feet a -1 penalty to attack rolls and armor class. This penalty lasts for as long as the poet concentrates, and five rounds after. This penalty increases to -2 at 4th level and -3 at 6th level. A trickster may only use Inspiration in this way three times per day.
Moderate Archetype Power: If a trickster successfully denies an opponent its Dexterity bonus to armor class by feinting, all his allies adjacent to that opponent may make one free melee attack against it.
Greater Archetype Power: Any opponents affected by a trickster's lesser archetype power must make a Will save each round they are affected or be confused for one round. The DC for this save is equal to 10 + half the trickster's HD + the trickster's Charisma modifier.

Gnorman
2011-10-19, 03:50 AM
Poet completed, now ready for review.

~Corvus~
2011-10-19, 05:27 AM
...No 1s on ANY roll? Dang, man, that's... kinda ridiculous. At level 5, no less. No chance of auto-failure is pretty powerful, don't you think?

Eldan
2011-10-19, 05:55 AM
I wouldn't call it overpowered, really. Autofails on ones are restricted to a few kinds of rolls (saves and attack rolls only, off-hand) and those that you would only fail on a 1, but not on a 2 are rare anyway.

~Corvus~
2011-10-19, 06:15 AM
I wouldn't call it overpowered, really. Autofails on ones are restricted to a few kinds of rolls (saves and attack rolls only, off-hand) and those that you would only fail on a 1, but not on a 2 are rare anyway.

Fair enough. And level 6 is a bit much to take a dip in, anyways.

Eldan
2011-10-19, 06:17 AM
Its an E6 class... after five levels, that's not a dip anymore. It's a main class with a one-level dip in something else.

~Corvus~
2011-10-19, 06:34 AM
Its an E6 class... after five levels, that's not a dip anymore. It's a main class with a one-level dip in something else.

I've been researching these E6 classes from Gnorman's signature, but now I'm more confused...would you or someone else mind explaining what they do exactly? I'm not finding any explanation...

Eldan
2011-10-19, 06:36 AM
E6 is a game variant. Basically, E6 stands for Epic 6: level 6 is the new epic.

You play to level 6, and not higher. After that, you don't get more class levels, only bonus feats. These classes are made for that variant, having only six levels.

It's basically intended to improve balance a bit, especially between casters and non-casters, as no spells above level 3 are in, which excludes many of the worst offenders. It also keeps the game on a more down-to-earth level, which makes it a favourite of people who prefer Sword and Sorcery over High Magic.

~Corvus~
2011-10-19, 07:54 AM
Thanks Eldan!

Okay, the ability to steal some spells from any of the other casters is great versatility, and it's way cool as a... collector of stories or creative artist. It fits the flavour well.

A most powerful leader. Cool! This goes different ways well without overlapping other classes, it seems... I really like the skald! Fear at 6th level is a real party-killer XD. Very nice ^_^

Hmm... I object to the removal of Perform (whatever) to the Bardic Music ability. Firstly, because it removes the motivation and reason for a player to have a character with a little more depth and a skill that is useful out of combat and isn't otherwise useful in combat. Secondly, (and ultimately more importantly) because it's MUSIC: how is the character's skill with said performance to be determined?

With regards to that bardic music feature, if they didn't have to perform, would you limit the bonuses accordingly?

Gnorman
2011-10-19, 08:22 AM
Hmm... I object to the removal of Perform (whatever) to the Bardic Music ability. Firstly, because it removes the motivation and reason for a player to have a character with a little more depth and a skill that is useful out of combat and isn't otherwise useful in combat. Secondly, (and ultimately more importantly) because it's MUSIC: how is the character's skill with said performance to be determined?

With regards to that bardic music feature, if they didn't have to perform, would you limit the bonuses accordingly?

I removed the Perform requirement because the Bard was the only class who was required to invest points into a skill simply to access one of his main class features. It seemed unfair. The poet does not necessarily play music to inspire his comrades, but if you wanted to play a musician - hey, you've got 8 skill points a level and Perform as a class skill. Make it so.

~Corvus~
2011-10-19, 09:48 AM
I removed the Perform requirement because the Bard was the only class who was required to invest points into a skill simply to access one of his main class features. It seemed unfair. The poet does not necessarily play music to inspire his comrades, but if you wanted to play a musician - hey, you've got 8 skill points a level and Perform as a class skill. Make it so.

Fair enough. >_< Wow, major derp. I was thinking of what Bardsong did in Neverwinter Nights, not in tabletop D&D :eek:

AtlanteanTroll
2011-10-19, 10:14 AM
I love you. The Skald is, and will FOREVER be, an amazing concept. :smallbiggrin:

stack
2011-10-19, 11:22 AM
How many SLA's per day can you select?

Example: at level 6, you get 6 SLA's/day.

Do you select six and cast each once?
Select 6 and cast any combination of them to a total of six times?
Select x and either of the above?

~Corvus~
2011-10-19, 02:02 PM
...you get 6 SLA's/day.

I'm sorry to be nitpickey, but the apostrophe on SLA should not be there. It's an awful, AWFUL grammar error :furious: If you want an entertaining way to learn about the correct use of the apostrophe, go to The Oatmeal (http://theoatmeal.com/comics/apostrophe) :smallwink:

stack
2011-10-19, 02:06 PM
You know, I'm not sure why I typed it that way. It is neither a contraction with "is", nor is it possessive. Eh, oh well.

gkathellar
2011-10-19, 02:30 PM
I don't like the name. It does nothing to express what the class is about.

I'm tempted to say that rather than drawing on Red, Blue and Green, Dilettante should let you pick any two or three of the five mage classes for its spell list (and then force you to stick with those two or three).

That whole of Dilettante needs some clarification. How many SLAs do you prepare and how many uses do you get for each? Is there a shared pool of uses between the set, and if so how big is that? Clarification is required.

The Bravado's Moderate ability is boring, and possibly a little underpowered, and the Greater ability needs to clarify which hand you get to make an attack with (the correct answer is: both).

Otherwise, it looks good. A cool mix of bard and factotum.

~Corvus~
2011-10-19, 03:36 PM
I don't like the name. It does nothing to express what the class is about.

I agree and disagree. Initially, poet doesn't seem to fit. He's a CASTER, not some secluded bookworm who will make more money after he's dead than he ever had in his life, right??:smallbiggrin: After all, he's a WRITER, right? But, then again, what makes a poet into one that people pay attention to is the fact that she or he reads and/or studies lots of others' works. Thus it makes sense, I believe, to have it pull from all the other casting classes. It makes the Poet versatile even without the Archetypes. Heck, you could have a whole party of Skalds that all do different things and still have very different characters. I say... Bravo.

Okay, the name seems a little funky.Consider what they say about the Pen... (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThePenIsMightier) Oh, and who else uses pens a lot? (Wizards) Pun-Pun (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869366/The_most_powerful_character._EVER.) starts off as a Wizard, might i remind you :smallwink:


That whole of Dilettante needs some clarification. How many SLAs do you prepare and how many uses do you get for each? Is there a shared pool of uses between the set, and if so how big is that? Clarification is required.

I agree that it could use some clarification!! He answers this here: "The maximum level of SLA the poet can cast and the number of them per day are given in the above table. He may select new SLAs every twenty-four hours, and must spend half an hour to prepare them." Therefore, it seems to me that the number of SLAs he can prepare are (up to? :smalleek: ) the number he can cast.

Gnorman
2011-10-19, 05:29 PM
Attempted to clarify Dilettante. The number of unique SLAs is given in the table; each one may only be used once per day. Let me know if it is still confusing.

As for the name, it's a little bit romanticized, I know. It's not so much the scribing and scribbling aspects of the poet that I am drawing on, but the notions of adventure and a grand sense of history in the making, more Homeric epic than anything else. Think this (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WarriorPoet), rather than this (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Bookworm). That being said, if you want to call it Bard instead (or Troubador, or Jongleur, or Fili, or Roustabout, or just plain Adventurer), you'd be forgiven (as that's basically what it is).

gkathellar
2011-10-19, 09:26 PM
Dilettante is much better.

Eh, I guess Poet is okay. It just strikes me as off because members of this class aren't necessarily actual poets. One naming suggestion, though: change "Bravado" to "Braggadocio" for increased awesome factor.

~Corvus~
2011-10-20, 01:02 AM
Clarification is helpful! However, you seem to now have an unfinished sentence :smallamused:

Renchard
2011-10-20, 03:07 PM
I'm curious, why SLA's instead of straight casting, albeit at a reduced rate?

Was it intended to scale better with feats, since you can get so many feats in E6 and use them on Empower SLA and Quicken SLA?

Gnorman
2011-10-20, 04:23 PM
I'm curious, why SLA's instead of straight casting, albeit at a reduced rate?

Was it intended to scale better with feats, since you can get so many feats in E6 and use them on Empower SLA and Quicken SLA?

No real reason, just was looking at the Factotum at the time. It could be easily changed to casting - make it bard progression, but with spells chosen from the appropriate sources.

Ziegander
2011-10-20, 09:11 PM
Greater Archetype Power: Any opponents affected by a trickster's lesser archetype power must make a Will save or be confused for one round. The DC for this save is equal to 10 + half the trickster's HD + the trickster's Charisma modifier.

How does this work? Is it a once-off that only triggers when the Trickster first activates his lesser archetype power? Are the opponents forced to save every round they are affected by the power?

Gnorman
2011-10-21, 02:23 AM
How does this work? Is it a once-off that only triggers when the Trickster first activates his lesser archetype power? Are the opponents forced to save every round they are affected by the power?

Supposed to be recurring each round, fixed.

Gnorman
2011-10-23, 08:46 PM
Changed around the bravado abilities and gave the poet the ability to select two casting classes at character creation that he can use for his Dilettante ability.

gkathellar
2011-10-25, 04:23 AM
The Bravado is much improved. Now it fits in with the other two to provide the bard a set of "role options" as it were: to borrow 4E's convenient parlance, Bravado is for Leader/Strikers, Skald for Leader/Defenders, and Trickster for Leader/Controllers.

Othniel Edden
2011-10-25, 07:31 PM
If a Bravado is using a shield, can they use shield bash as part of their counter attack (moderate archetype ability) especially if losing the AC bonus of the shield would have allowed them to be hit by the attack?

Gnorman
2011-10-26, 12:49 AM
If a Bravado is using a shield, can they use shield bash as part of their counter attack (moderate archetype ability) especially if losing the AC bonus of the shield would have allowed them to be hit by the attack?

Since the counterattack resolves separately and after the initial attack, yes, they could use it - they would take the appropriate penalty to AC afterwards, though.

Eldest
2011-12-01, 05:47 PM
I'm playing a Poet in an E6 game currently, I'll tell you how it goes as the game goes onward.

DMofDarkness
2011-12-01, 06:28 PM
...Bravado seems a little OP. Getting a second attack in a round for your full round action is the capstone ability for full BAB classes, and now anyone can get it with a one level dip. Also, without those limits on two handed fighting, is it restricted to one-handed weapons? Or can you dual-wield two handed weapons, as well? Also, with the Trickster, Confusion is pretty powerful, especially in E6. Especially every round, for every opponent, with penalties on everything.

Eldest
2011-12-01, 06:50 PM
...Bravado seems a little OP. Getting a second attack in a round for your full round action is the capstone ability for full BAB classes, and now anyone can get it with a one level dip. Also, without those limits on two handed fighting, is it restricted to one-handed weapons? Or can you dual-wield two handed weapons, as well? Also, with the Trickster, Confusion is pretty powerful, especially in E6. Especially every round, for every opponent, with penalties on everything.

The Bravado ability you referance is gained at level 2. I am not the creator, but I think since you only have one hand per weapon, you only can wield one handed weapons. The weapons do not have to be light, either.
The Trickster ability is level 6. That is it's capstone. The DC would be roughly 17.

DMofDarkness
2011-12-01, 07:17 PM
The Bravado ability you referance is gained at level 2. I am not the creator, but I think since you only have one hand per weapon, you only can wield one handed weapons. The weapons do not have to be light, either.
The Trickster ability is level 6. That is it's capstone. The DC would be roughly 17.

It would also be a 4th level spell that was useable 9 times per day for longer than the duration of the original spell (though there are mutliple saving throws) with an increased radius that does not hit allies.

Also, Gnorman- I approve your creation of a mage for each of the 5 colors of mana. Though I don't really understand why the green mage only got +3 BAB, when the red mage got +4...

Eldest
2011-12-01, 07:57 PM
Red Mage is intended as a Gish. And what are you talking about with the 4th level spell?

DMofDarkness
2011-12-03, 09:26 PM
Red Mage is intended as a Gish. And what are you talking about with the 4th level spell?

Confusion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/confusion.htm)is a 4th level spell (Bards get it at a lower level so that they can use it when it's actually useful). The fact that it's a fourth level spell alone, let alone upgraded with several features, means that it is balanced as a 1/day capstone feature. It's useable somewhere around 9 times per day, with a charisma modifier of +3 (Low, but that's what a poet with the elite ability score array can do without equipment). Slightly more powerful than the capstones other classes gain...

Gnorman
2011-12-04, 05:16 AM
That's actually a fair point. I may include caveats in all poet archetypes that their "special song" can only be used three times per day.

Gnorman
2011-12-27, 09:35 AM
Made some changes (boy, this one is hard to get just right).

Trickster's song no longer affects damage rolls or saving throws, mainly for balance reasons (to avoid the cumulative effect with the Confusion ability) but also because I plan to include a saving throw penalty in a new archetype, the Doomsinger.

All archetype "special" songs now are limited to three times per day. In addition, the skald's inspire greatness now costs double inspiration.

Also considering replacing the SLA system with simple bard progression casting, as they're basically comparable.

Eldest
2012-01-12, 08:11 AM
You may want to say explicitly that the sixth level ability for all Poets (restore lots of health to an ally that's about to croak) is a free action, or an immediate action.
And I actually like the SLA way for them to cast. It seems really interesting, and since they only get a handful of spells, even at sixth level, it makes their casting different.

Gnorman
2012-01-12, 08:26 AM
You may want to say explicitly that the sixth level ability for all Poets (restore lots of health to an ally that's about to croak) is a free action, or an immediate action.
And I actually like the SLA way for them to cast. It seems really interesting, and since they only get a handful of spells, even at sixth level, it makes their casting different.

I thought "immediately" implied the right kind of action; will make it clearer.

As for the latter bit... too late now? Dunno. Will consider.