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View Full Version : Why worship Tharizdun? (BBEG help)



veven
2011-10-19, 10:15 PM
I've been wanting to run a campaign with a Tharizdun cult as the main antagonists for a while. The problem is, not many people would be down with Tharizdun's methods of business. The campaign has already had two sessions but only behind the scenes stuff regarding the Tharizdun plot has happened so far.

I have a general plot outline but one problem I am having is coming up with a "reasonable" reason for someone to aid Tharizdun. A brother and sister are working together to free the elder evil Shothrogot, who himself is a servant of Tharizdun.

Aexia and Sebastian Darrowen are the disowned daughter and son of one of the 12 noble lords that rule the human nation of Talus. Lord Darrowen himself is actually a toned-down Worm that Walks (easy to hide since all the nobles wear masks and fully cover their skin) but that isn't important to the main plot (yet?) The reason they were disowned is undecided (suggestions?).
Traveling incognito as a priest, Sebastian encountered a drug that weakens the mind of it's user so they can be easily manipulated (they will eventually work with the producers of said drug to raise their army (since I figure it would be hard to raise an army for a god who hates everything) which they need to invade the city built atop of the prison of Shothrogot).
The players have met and worked with Sebastian before but they don't know his true identity.

I don't want to use the insanity defense, especially since one of their lieutenants is already going to be insane. I seriously cannot find reasonable motives for their plot.

Maybe Tharizdun promised Alexia the power to get revenge on her father for something and Sebastian is along for the ride because he loves her (I think I am going to hint at them having an incestuous relationship just for the sheer stomach-turning ick factor).

Perhaps Tharizdun misleads them into believing he won't harm the material plane. His vendetta is with the gods and promises of great wealth or power lead them to aid in his release.

I am open to suggestions so please toss them my way. Certain things cannot be altered since pieces of the plot are already underway and have been hinted at (the first session involved finding and arresting the man in charge of making the drug. Sebastian will break him out of jail and strike a deal with him to mass produce it).

If it matters Alexia will be a wizard, Sebastian is a beguiler. This is also for an E6 game, btw.

Chilingsworth
2011-10-19, 10:43 PM
Well, the only thing I can think of off the top of my head:

Maybe your BBEG(s) lost someone/something they cared about deeply to a sphere of anihilation or other "erase from existance" sort of destructive fate. Then, they might hope that by helping in the erasing of the universe, they'll find that person or thing again. Alternatively, maybe Tharizdun has convinced them that anything that suffers such a fate ends up in his prision and that by freeing him, they'll also free everything else stuck there with him?

Since you're talking about a pair of siblings, maybe their mother was destroyed in such a way? Such an event could easily drive one, the other, or both of them to such desperate measures.

kaomera
2011-10-19, 11:40 PM
On a general basis, one knowingly worships any given world- / universe- / reality-devouring entity because one believes them destined to ultimately win (either they're too powerful to beat or a general feeling that given enough time everything is going to end anyway), so why not get on the winning side? People would generally much rather be right than avoid unnecessary pain and suffering.

However Tharizdun in particular has often in the past been portrayed as a "secret god", knowledge of it's existence and true nature suppressed by the more prominent churches and other organizations. So it could be entirely possible that someone would come upon He Who Waits as a possible source of power without realizing the scope of it's divinity or it's true nature and purpose. And of course, once the truth is revealed it is likely too late to turn back. One possibility is that the revocation of some gift it has previously bestowed on it's new adherent is something they simply will not give up - such as the life of a cherished loved one or some-such? It then becomes an issue where they know they are dooming the world, but can't actually bring themselves to make a conscious decision that would directly and immediately doom the object of their affection.

Reluctance
2011-10-19, 11:52 PM
Why do evil gods have cults period, in a world where people know that the afterlife tangibly exists and that evil afterlives are not happy places?

If you want a "realistic" reason, there are only two. (A third reason could exist for certain evil gods. One could certainly worship Bane on the principle that winning and weeding out the weak allowed one to serve a net good. But that doesn't apply for omnicidal deities.) In one, novices are sold a softer, fuzzier version of the god, and only get to see the darker parts gradually as they get more and more entangled in the religion. In the other, people decide that exchanging worship/sacrifices for power is the only way to do what needs to be done, and evil gods are much more likely to make that trade than good ones. Tharizdun becomes an interesting case then; with only a few worshippers, prayers that go to him are prayers that don't go to another god that can actively inflict malice. If too many people chose him as the "safe" devil to bargain with, the prison shatters and **** gets real.

deuxhero
2011-10-20, 01:17 AM
The cult is run by a Diplomancer!

Sidmen
2011-10-20, 01:20 AM
A quick bit of research basically spells out that there are a pair of possible reasons to worship this god: Insanity and Misinformation. You don't want insanity, so the other option is to make Tharizdun lie to the Siblings - he doesn't have to tell them his goals and what he wants for the universe, he simply omits that part and uses flowery lies to convince them to free him.

Or, you can use the Oblivion Cults from Exalted as a base. In that universe, oblivion is the end of all things - and its worshipers/agents sometimes use that to mean an end to the suffering of life. Life is HARD, pain and suffering seems to outweigh peace and happiness, especially for the common folk who might suffer for decades because they broke a bone when they were children (without proper medicine such a thing could be agony for their entire lives).

Who WOULDN'T want to end suffering? I mean, sure, it means that nothing else can exist - but most of life is just preparation for more suffering anyway.

erikun
2011-10-20, 01:28 AM
Worship of Tharizdun tends to fall into four rough categories:

1.) Insane, enough said

2.) Na´ve, generally thinking that they will "create the new world afterwards" or something similar

3.) Deceived, people who were promised things that they either won't get or will be the result of the destruction of everything

4.) Ignorant, or people who don't know that they are worshipping and aiding the Undoer

I guess there could also be the Ultimate Survivalist, who thinks they can handle anything (literally) and want to bring about the end of everything to prove it. You'd think they would worship someone else, though.

Coidzor
2011-10-20, 01:35 AM
They want to bring back a vestige, perhaps, and Tharizdun is the only lead they have on the subject?

Runestar
2011-10-20, 01:39 AM
Might this be of some help? (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20040510x) :smallsmile:

Gorgondantess
2011-10-20, 01:39 AM
Remember, if you're going for the "insane cultist" angle here, the key word is insane. There doesn't have to be an at all rational why.

Sidmen
2011-10-20, 01:45 AM
Remember, if you're going for the "insane cultist" angle here, the key word is insane. There doesn't have to be an at all rational why.

Hes actively not wanting Insane. Which is strange for a campaign with a god whose religion is based on the Insane cult.

Coidzor
2011-10-20, 02:06 AM
On the other hand, insane doesn't have to mean cackling.

stainboy
2011-10-20, 02:09 AM
All of the above reasons are good, and here's a few more:

-Power. They like the cleric spells, they like being feared, and they like Tharizdun's custom domain full of awesome plotdevice cheater abilities. But they don't actually believe that Tharizdun will ever unmake the world. Even if they say they do. Even if they tell themselves they they do. They gain things of value (to them) by worshiping Tharizdun, and they can't weigh it against the cost because the cost is a null pointer. Unmake the world is just too big to comprehend.

-Self-Destruction. In the real world, people who don't believe in an afterlife commit suicide all the time. "I won't exist" isn't that different from "nothing will exist." (In D&D land the afterlife is objectively and demonstrably real but we assume human nature is still the same. This might actually be the motive: destroying everything is the only way they can really, truly die. Well in E6 anyway.)

-Fear. They got into the cult for any of the above reasons. Then came to their senses but backing out isn't an option. Either Tharizdun would shatter their minds or all the other cultists would kill them. These guys may be the most fanatical as they overcompensate for their secret disloyalty.

Ravens_cry
2011-10-20, 02:24 AM
From the description on Wikipedia, someone might worship Tharizdun for the same reasons Zorg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krcNIWPkNzA) wants to help the Great Evil.

Poil
2011-10-20, 05:47 AM
What does taking a good long look at the world and deciding it's best if it all was destroyed fall under? :smalltongue:

Or that it's easier to just end the world rather than fix all the impossible problems with it? Wars, suffering, etc.

pasko77
2011-10-20, 07:39 AM
and they can't weigh it against the cost because the cost is a null pointer.


the cost is a null pointer.

Dude, you work too much.

mrzomby
2011-10-20, 08:38 AM
Tharizdun? that is my evil twin brother, im Tharzidun, god of puppies, rainbow, candy, and evil. you can totally praise me. by the way, how about making a huge cult, raising an army, and totally murdering some dudes?

Maybe people don't know they are worshipping Tharizdun, and think they are on some righteous crusade to release a greater force of good and cleanse the world of "mistakes".

There are a few good roleplay oppurtunities for good PCs when the evil organization is comprised of people who are good, and may have deserters who got to close to the truth, and left.

Iceforge
2011-10-20, 09:12 AM
Kaomera suggested that he had given them something they do not want to have taken away from them again.

You are saying the brother loves the sister and they have an incestious relationship going which is going to be hinted at.

Maybe she died, the brother having found some very ancient runes with the name of Tharizdun on, invoked the name and Tharizdun has restored the sister to life, an act that is viewed harshly on in the civilized world, leading to the father disowning them.

They fleed from their father, who wanted to put the sister back to death, viewing her as an abomination.

Her personality has changed for the wicked and evil, desiring power and destruction, really devouted to the path of Tharizdun and the brother so deeply in love with her, that he goes along willingly, althrough secretly wishing things was different and in reality he just desires to grow old with his sister, truly in love with her, while she may be more taking a "using my brothers love to make him help me and Tharizdun" approach to things.

Mark Hall
2011-10-20, 10:11 AM
Throw in a former demon worshiper, who now repents. He's not non-evil, mind you... he just doesn't want to spend eternity serving a demon. Tharizdun promises complete destruction... no soul, no servitude, just an end. A way out.

This would be a Warlock, sorcerer, or wizard type. Maybe a cleric, or multiclassed as one.

gbprime
2011-10-20, 10:44 AM
Well let's look at the D+D cosmology for a minute. In most cases, when you die you travel to whatever plane matches your alignment. So if you're evil, you're pretty much ****ed.

Now along comes a cult that says you don't have to repent or change your ways, you just have to help un-make reality... get the universe back to the way it was SUPPOSED to be, with no laws and nobody else telling you what is right or wrong. Then when we're done, there is no death and you can shape your own personal reality however you like. Paradise, in essence.

Whether or not this is a lie doesn't matter. The promise is that it's heaven for the southeast corner of the alignment chart. :smallamused:

Mark Hall
2011-10-20, 10:54 AM
Well let's look at the D+D cosmology for a minute. In most cases, when you die you travel to whatever plane matches your alignment. So if you're evil, you're pretty much ****ed.

I disagree with this. The D&D multiverse does not punish evil... evil people don't go to the lower planes for punishment. Likewise, it does not reward good people.

People go to a place where the rules work exactly the way they always thought things DID work.

If you are Lawful Good, you go to a place where the rules are just, community is important, and helping others helps society. If you are Chaotic evil, you go to a place where being strong means being right and being weak means being wrong. If you want to be right, be stronger than the others, and you will be right.

This is not punishment. The fact that a CE person may wind up being tortured is incidental, a side effect of their philosophy. They go to the Abyss and, if they're weak, they're destroyed or used.

hamishspence
2011-10-20, 11:02 AM
Fiendish Codex 2 tends to disagree.

And in Manual of the Planes, the souls of those who made bargains with yugoloths, in Gehenna, are tortured for all eternity.

So- the idea of evil afterlives as "eternal torture" or "punishment" does seem to have some support.

Chilingsworth
2011-10-20, 11:05 AM
I disagree with this. The D&D multiverse does not punish evil... evil people don't go to the lower planes for punishment. Likewise, it does not reward good people.

People go to a place where the rules work exactly the way they always thought things DID work.

If you are Lawful Good, you go to a place where the rules are just, community is important, and helping others helps society. If you are Chaotic evil, you go to a place where being strong means being right and being weak means being wrong. If you want to be right, be stronger than the others, and you will be right.

This is not punishment. The fact that a CE person may wind up being tortured is incidental, a side effect of their philosophy. They go to the Abyss and, if they're weak, they're destroyed or used.

Sorry to change the subject, but didn't you write an essay on this concept? I remember you linked to to, and I added it to my favorites, but then lost it, might you link it again?

veven
2011-10-20, 11:17 AM
Thank you all so much! So many great ideas in here!



The cult is run by a Diplomancer!
This is already the case, a combination of a will-weakening drug and Sebastians Beguiler abilities will be what recruits a lot of their followers



Remember, if you're going for the "insane cultist" angle here, the key word is insane. There doesn't have to be an at all rational why.
As pointed out, I'm specifically not. Most of the lower ranks will be depraved drug addicts and I don't want to shrug off the top tier's motives just by saying, "I dunno, they're crazy!" Most of the lower guys won't have a logical reason though.



Kaomera suggested that he had given them something they do not want to have taken away from them again.

You are saying the brother loves the sister and they have an incestious relationship going which is going to be hinted at.

Maybe she died, the brother having found some very ancient runes with the name of Tharizdun on, invoked the name and Tharizdun has restored the sister to life, an act that is viewed harshly on in the civilized world, leading to the father disowning them.

They fleed from their father, who wanted to put the sister back to death, viewing her as an abomination.

Her personality has changed for the wicked and evil, desiring power and destruction, really devouted to the path of Tharizdun and the brother so deeply in love with her, that he goes along willingly, althrough secretly wishing things was different and in reality he just desires to grow old with his sister, truly in love with her, while she may be more taking a "using my brothers love to make him help me and Tharizdun" approach to things.

This is great. Despite being gross it makes the brother a little more sympathetic. Still an unforgivable D-bag (by the end of the campaign he'll have done some pretty awful things) but at least he'll have something sympathetic to fall back on.




Throw in a former demon worshiper, who now repents. He's not non-evil, mind you... he just doesn't want to spend eternity serving a demon. Tharizdun promises complete destruction... no soul, no servitude, just an end. A way out.

This would be a Warlock, sorcerer, or wizard type. Maybe a cleric, or multiclassed as one.

I really dig this too, I smell a mini-BBEG. They need more lieutenants anyways.



Well let's look at the D+D cosmology for a minute. In most cases, when you die you travel to whatever plane matches your alignment. So if you're evil, you're pretty much ****ed.

Now along comes a cult that says you don't have to repent or change your ways, you just have to help un-make reality... get the universe back to the way it was SUPPOSED to be, with no laws and nobody else telling you what is right or wrong. Then when we're done, there is no death and you can shape your own personal reality however you like. Paradise, in essence.

Whether or not this is a lie doesn't matter. The promise is that it's heaven for the southeast corner of the alignment chart. :smallamused:

I think this will be the recruiting call for anyone they cant suck in with drugs and mind-control. It has a dark logic to it.


I am gonna find a way to combine all this stuff, I can't thank you folks enough for providing so many creative ideas! Cheers!

erikun
2011-10-20, 11:34 AM
There is always the possibility that they don't worship Tharizdun, and are just acting as if they do to manipulate the cult into doing what they want.

Mark Hall
2011-10-20, 12:58 PM
Fiendish Codex 2 tends to disagree.

And in Manual of the Planes, the souls of those who made bargains with yugoloths, in Gehenna, are tortured for all eternity.

So- the idea of evil afterlives as "eternal torture" or "punishment" does seem to have some support.

This is going to sound a bit arrogant, but I think it's a side effect of the designers not thinking about what they have. Now, the yugoloths thing doesn't conflict with what I said... you make a deal with the devil, he gets to do what he likes with you. But evil=punishment simply doesn't work with the multiverse as set up.


Sorry to change the subject, but didn't you write an essay on this concept? I remember you linked to to, and I added it to my favorites, but then lost it, might you link it again?

I did, though it was primarily about the whys of funeral practices (i.e. not burning the dead to prevent easy undead creation, burying lots of magical treasure with dead people), with the consideration of how the afterlife works as a sidebar.

I'll PM it to you; the link has been a bit wonky for folks.

EDIT: Actually, I realized I hadn't posted it to the Cranky Gamer yet; here's a link for any interested. http://rpg-crank.livejournal.com/37072.html

Beleriphon
2011-10-20, 01:36 PM
As pointed out, I'm specifically not. Most of the lower ranks will be depraved drug addicts and I don't want to shrug off the top tier's motives just by saying, "I dunno, they're crazy!" Most of the lower guys won't have a logical reason though.

Keeping in mind the high ranking guys once were low ranking guys too. Just because one is completely and untterly insane doesn't mean one can't be sophisticated, or hide the insanity behind a very thin veneer.

Gorgondantess
2011-10-20, 02:33 PM
On the other hand, insane doesn't have to mean cackling.

Precisely. Insane can simply mean an alien manner of thought. They might be quite rational on the surface, but have one piece of completely ridiculous logic- much like Zorg, above- that makes them worship Tharzidun.

GungHo
2011-10-20, 02:36 PM
Too many people have run into/played fishmalks to understand that there are lots of different levels and expressions of crazy running around.

Hell, start watching some Youtube clips of behaviorial/psychological studies.

gbprime
2011-10-20, 02:39 PM
I disagree with this. The D&D multiverse does not punish evil... evil people don't go to the lower planes for punishment. Likewise, it does not reward good people.

People go to a place where the rules work exactly the way they always thought things DID work.

If you are Lawful Good, you go to a place where the rules are just, community is important, and helping others helps society. If you are Chaotic evil, you go to a place where being strong means being right and being weak means being wrong. If you want to be right, be stronger than the others, and you will be right.

This is not punishment. The fact that a CE person may wind up being tortured is incidental, a side effect of their philosophy. They go to the Abyss and, if they're weak, they're destroyed or used.

That's a valid argument, though it assumes that cosmology works as it's supposed to for everyone. (Mortal life is for everyone whether they fit in or not, but in the afterlife everyone is where they're supposed to be.)

But my example works if you view a chaotic evil afterlife as a dog-eat-dog (or demon-eat-you) competitive system as well. Even if it's an ethos rather than a punishment, it's certainly not a reward, you have to be on your game. A cult like T's tempts people with a reward instead.

Ravens_cry
2011-10-20, 02:46 PM
There is always the possibility that they don't worship Tharizdun, and are just acting as if they do to manipulate the cult into doing what they want.
I had a similar idea for a campaign, the first I am actually writing myself. Basically a merchant is funding a cult of Rovagug (http://pathfinder.wikia.com/wiki/Rovagug) to attack worshippers and temples of Sarenrae (http://pathfinder.wikia.com/wiki/Sarenrae), not because he wants to see the world end, but because Sarenrae followers are disrupting his slave trade business.
Of course, it's going to come back and bite him in the buttocks somehow.

Dimers
2011-10-20, 02:49 PM
Another completely different angle for Sebastian and Alexia ... they think they know a way to destroy Tharizdun, but he has to be freed first for them to do it. They can't tell their army of insane fanatics about it, because then Tharizdun will find out -- it's got to be a secret. If the PCs manage to defeat Sebastian&Alexia, with their dying words they croak out this secret and leave the party wondering whether they just blew a chance to save the world or if Tharizdun had just been subtly influencing the pair with a lie in order to bring about his own release. If the party can't beat S&A, or somehow finds out about their secret plan, the campaign might drastically change direction, with the PCs working to ensure that the god is released and then destroyed for good.

The last couple Black Company books have a lot of complexity about releasing and destroying a goddess who appears to want to destroy the world. Two protagonists are the biological parents of the goddess' semi-avatar, one protagonist will only survive (physically and emotionally) while she can siphon power off the doom goddess she's honor-bound to destroy, and there are about seven different factions with constantly shifting alliances working for and against the resurrection cult. It's a real trip.

Jolly
2011-10-20, 03:00 PM
Severe enough abuse, over a long enough period, starting at a young enough age, could lead to a generic loathing and hatred for all of both humanity (who did it to you) and the gods (who let them). When you hate everyone enough to want them dead, a cult that promises to destroy the world might sound pretty good.

Edit: also, listen to Dimers. Anyone who quotes Black Company novels for plot ideas is probably right. :smallbiggrin:

Coidzor
2011-10-20, 05:25 PM
I had a similar idea for a campaign, the first I am actually writing myself. Basically a merchant is funding a cult of Rovagug (http://pathfinder.wikia.com/wiki/Rovagug) to attack worshippers and temples of Sarenrae (http://pathfinder.wikia.com/wiki/Sarenrae), not because he wants to see the world end, but because Sarenrae followers are disrupting his slave trade business.
Of course, it's going to come back and bite him in the buttocks somehow.

That reminds me of an SMBC strip. (http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2394#comic)

Ravens_cry
2011-10-20, 05:57 PM
That reminds me of an SMBC strip. (http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2394#comic)
What precisely does that have to do with Nihilism?:smallconfused:

Gorfang113
2011-10-20, 06:28 PM
If you want you could have it so that they don't know it's Tharizdun they are worshippping. They could be followers of the Elder Elemental Eye (MM4) and just not know that it is a front for Tharizdun. They actually believe that they will rule in the new world the the Elemental Evils think they will, not knowing that they will all be destroyed if they suceede. Even better, the one insane underling you mentioned could be so because he discovered the truth of The Elder Eye and the revelation drove him mad (or Tharizdun did it himself, either way works really).

Jolly
2011-10-20, 06:37 PM
Also, consider every H.P Lovecraft character that worshipped the Elder Gods as an example.

Dimers
2011-10-20, 08:19 PM
What precisely does that have to do with Nihilism?:smallconfused:

Doesn't have to do with nihilism at all. The connection is "I don't really care about this whole doomdoomdoom stuff, I just want lots of money!"

Ravens_cry
2011-10-20, 08:32 PM
Doesn't have to do with nihilism at all. The connection is "I don't really care about this whole doomdoomdoom stuff, I just want lots of money!"
Ah, now I get your point.

TheJudicator
2011-10-21, 08:14 PM
hmm...with the idea of the romancing brother and sister as they're committing evil... did anyone else besides me think of the 90's movie "The Crow", or am I just crazy?

Hehe, either way. To the OP, I'll put in my 2 coppers and recommend seeing that movie. I won't lie, it's a tad mature, but it's a pretty good movie, and the bbeg siblings are pretty evil and twisted. It might inspire you :)

Other than that, I'll +1 most of what everyone else has said.

RndmNumGen
2011-10-21, 09:37 PM
Some possibilities:

The person has decided that all life is suffering, but the sweet release of death isn't sweet at all - the afterlife is suffering as well. The people who think they are happy are deluded, and the gift of oblivion is the best thing for these people.

The person made some sort of deal or pact with a being they regret. Maybe it was a friend, maybe fey, maybe something else. Whatever it was, they can't forget their mistake. However, they need to forget, they need it to end - even at the expense of the rest of the world ending. No cost is too great for them.

The person is an immortal who can't die, and they've lived too long. They're tired of life, tired of seeing the ages pass them by, and in their search for a way to finally die they have come across the knowledge of this god, this Tharizdun. He can offer them what nothing else can.

The person is out for revenge. He doesn't care about himself any more - nothing is left for him. But for the person he wants to kill, death isn't enough. They need to be utterly destroyed. Obliterated. Annihilated. Tharizdun can provide this. Maybe they don't want the world to end, but they just need a little power to make someone go away... but they unwittingly take things too far.

Coidzor
2011-10-22, 02:36 AM
^: There's even pretty good in-universe justification for that first one being objectively right is the real funny thing. The afterlife not being so much of a crapshoot as a crapchute in Eberron, Forgotten Realms, and Greyhawk. Likely Golarion, almost assuredly Ravenloft and Dark Sun, and probably Birthright too. I think Planescape confirms this explicitly while Spelljammer just cribs FR and Greyhawk.

The multiverse is an illusion and suffering. Death only leads to being stuck on a plane and suffering eternally as the mind-raped thrall of some poseur deity or fuel for a fiendish war machine or slowly eroding away until the soul returns to the essence of the planes before a new soul is made out of that substance.

So the only true release is to break away from the cycle of suffering.

Tharizdun has demonstrated to be the only entity seriously capable of doing such.

Planescape Torment references are always good too. :smallbiggrin:

druid91
2011-10-23, 06:17 PM
Why do evil gods have cults period, in a world where people know that the afterlife tangibly exists and that evil afterlives are not happy places?

If you want a "realistic" reason, there are only two. (A third reason could exist for certain evil gods. One could certainly worship Bane on the principle that winning and weeding out the weak allowed one to serve a net good. But that doesn't apply for omnicidal deities.) In one, novices are sold a softer, fuzzier version of the god, and only get to see the darker parts gradually as they get more and more entangled in the religion. In the other, people decide that exchanging worship/sacrifices for power is the only way to do what needs to be done, and evil gods are much more likely to make that trade than good ones. Tharizdun becomes an interesting case then; with only a few worshippers, prayers that go to him are prayers that don't go to another god that can actively inflict malice. If too many people chose him as the "safe" devil to bargain with, the prison shatters and **** gets real.

Same reason Archdukes have cults... Because the power is nice, and hey if you can backstab your way to the top before you die you can negotiate your way to a nice spot in the afterlife. Besides they don't let you eat baby pie in celestia.

Ason
2011-10-23, 07:04 PM
Planescape Torment references are always good too. :smallbiggrin:

I was wondering if I was going to be able to make the first reference to that, but alas, it seems not. (I just finished the game for the first time a few weeks ago- thank you very much, Playgrounders, for convincing me to buy it.) Two things from Planescape spring to mind when discussing a god who wants to unmake reality. Firstly, there are some factions from the original campaign setting who might spawn fringe groups with an interest in such a god being free, especially ones like the Doomguard (http://planescape.outshine.com/official.planescape-torment.org/doomguard.html), the Dustmen (http://planescape.outshine.com/official.planescape-torment.org/dustmen.html) and the Bleak Cabal (http://planescape.outshine.com/official.planescape-torment.org/bcabal.html). Now, the standard factions might not want a reality-destroying wrecking ball loose, but perhaps a more militant subgroup would. The second thing that came to mind has mild spoilers, so please be careful if you haven't played Planescape: Torment already.

There was a character who sought to avoid the afterlife he/she was due because it was so horrible. While his/her solution was one option, Tharizdun would be a much more evil one alternative; unmake reality, no awful afterlife awaits you. Others have already mentioned this idea, but this particular game has some unique ways of implementing that kind of motivation. Perhaps the BBEG puts a god-releasing plan in motion but then repents, only to find herself unable to stop her now unleashed cults? I'm sure someone more dedicated could whip up a better twist to the plot.

P.S. I'm having trouble viewing the website I linked, but hitting "refresh" seems to make the information all appear. Weird...

Coidzor
2011-10-24, 02:33 AM
Well, you can imagine rogue/crazier than usual variants of a fair number of the factions that'd have some motive for wanting to release Ol' Tharzy or at least get close enough they'd do it accidentally anyway.

Specific flavors of Godsmen (http://planescape.outshine.com/official.planescape-torment.org/bos.html) that could believe Tharizdun is the ultimate test or that Tharizdun's imprisonment is mucking with the test or even that they need to dissect Tharizdun in order to figure it out.

The Anarchists (http://planescape.outshine.com/official.planescape-torment.org/anarchists.html) might have some embittered individuals who want to see it all burn or think they can leverage Tharizdun to get rid of the factions, powers, and planes they don't like before they destroy him in turn.

Even some Athar (http://planescape.outshine.com/official.planescape-torment.org/athar.html) might want to see what planar destruction would reveal of what lies beyond the veils.