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Codemus
2011-10-21, 02:45 PM
http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee358/Ghalmarak/DiscipleofBalance.jpg
The Harmonic Avatar is a fearsom foe indeed.

Adventures: A Disciple of Balance tends to seek out a life of adventure as a means of broadening his experience in the meaning of life and death. It is viewed as a test of both their devotion and skills.
Characteristics: The Disciples pulls divine power directly from the energy planes. They are equally adept at both healing damage and causing suffering, but are not as skilled in martial pursuits as a fighter or cleric.
Alignment: Typically, a Disciple of Balance is some type of neutral, in an effort to attain some amount of the uncaring nature of the universe. As they generally do not adhere to any code of conduct, there is no restriction upon their alignment.
Religion: Unlike Clerics, Disciples do not tend to serve any one god. Instead they meditate upon the nature of the planes in general, and of the energy planes specifically.
Background:
Races: Any race with some amount of aptitude in divine magic can easily take on the mantle of the Disciple, though the classís relative obscurity means there are few Disciples.
Other Classes: A Disciple of Balance cares little of other classes, and even less of Clerics. All that matters to the Disciple is that there are bodies between him and his opponents.
Role: The Disciple functions as an excellent healer, with the ability to deal damage and cripple his opponents sweetening the deal.

Game Rule Information
Abilities: Wisdom determines how powerful a spell a Disciple can cast, how many spells he can cast, and how hard those spells are to resist. A high Intelligence score is helpful since it adds to both his healing and damage, plus it determines the number of cantrips they have and how powerful latter effects are. Constitution is also important for increased health.
Alignment: Any Neutral
Hit Die: d6

Disciple of Balance
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6t h|7th|8th|9th
1st|+0|+2|+0|+2|The Path to Balance, Orisons, Spells|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
2nd|+1|+3|+0|+3|Planar Empathy|3|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
3rd|+1|+3|+1|+3|Planar Subsistence (eat 1 meal/week, sleep 1 hour/day)|3|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
4th|+2|+4|+1|+4|Discordant Backlash|4|3|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
5th|+2|+4|+1|+4|-|4|3|2|-|-|-|-|-|-
6th|+3|+5|+2|+5|-|4|4|3|-|-|-|-|-|-
7th|+3|+5|+2|+5|The Path to Power|5|4|3|2|-|-|-|-|-
8th|+4|+6|+2|+6|Elemental Cohort |5|4|4|3|-|-|-|-|-
9th|+4|+6|+3|+6|-|5|5|4|3|2|-|-|-|-
10th|+5|+7|+3|+7|Planar Subsistence (Immune to poison/disease)|5|5|4|4|3|-|-|-|-
11th|+5|+7|+3|+7|-|6|5|5|4|3|2|-|-|-
12th|+6/+1|+8|+4|+8|Planar Wings|6|5|5|4|4|3|-|-|-
13th|+6/+1|+8|+4|+8|-|6|6|5|5|4|3|2|-|-
14th|+7/+2|+9|+4|+9|The Path to Stability|6|6|5|5|4|4|3|-|-
15th|+7/+2|+9|+5|+9|Planar Subsistence (No need to breathe, eat, or sleep)|6|6|6|5|5|4|3|2|-
16th|+8/+3|+10|+5|+10|Harmonic Cohort |6|6|6|5|5|4|4|3|-
17th|+8/+3|+10|+5|+10|-|6|6|6|6|5|5|4|3|2
18th|+9/+4|+11|+6|+11|Harmonic Wings|6|6|6|6|5|5|4|4|3
19th|+9/+4|+11|+6|+11|Auras of Energy|6|6|6|6|6|5|5|4|4
20th|+10/+5|+12|+6|+12|The Path to Harmony|6|6|6|6|6|5|5|5|5[/table]

Class Skills
The Discipleís class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are; Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Knowledge (All skills, taken individually)(Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).

Skill Points at First Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

Proficiencies: Disciples of Balance are proficient with all Simple weapons and light armor, but not with shields.

Spells: A Disciple casts divine spells which are drawn from the Disciple spell list given below. A Disciple must choose and prepare his spells in advance. To prepare or cast a spell, a Disciple must have a Wisdom score of 10 + the spellís level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a Discipleís spell is 10 + the spellís level + the Discipleís Wisdom modifier.

Like other spellcasters, a Disciple can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given above. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Wisdom score.

The Disciple does not acquire his spells from books or scrolls, nor does he prepare them through study. Instead, he must meditate for his spells, receiving them through his own strength of will. Each Disciple must choose a time at which he must spend 1 hour each day in quiet meditation to regain his daily allotment of spells.

Time spent resting has no effect on whether a Disciple can prepare spells. A Disciple may prepare and cast any spell on the Disciple spell list, provided he can cast spells of that level, but he must choose which spells to prepare during his daily meditation.

Spell List:1st level spells:
Light-
Bless Water
Cure Light Wounds

Dark-
Cause Fear
Chill Touch
Curse Water
Deathwatch
Doom
Inflict Light Wounds
Ray of Enfeeblement

2nd level spells:
Light-
Cure Moderate Wounds
Delay Poison
Lesser Restoration
Remove Paralysis
Bearís Endurance
Bullís Strength
Catís Grace
Owlís Wisdom
Eagleís Splendor
Foxís Cunning

Dark-
Blindness/Deafness
Command Undead
Death Knell
False Life
Gentle Repose
Ghoul Touch
Inflict Moderate Wounds
Scare
Spectral Hand

3rd level spells:
Light-
Cure Serious Wounds
Remove Disease
Remove Blindness/Deafness

Dark-
Animate Dead
Bestow Curse
Contagion
Fear
Inflict Serious Wounds
Poison
Ray of Exhaustion
Speak with Dead
Vampiric Touch

4th level spells:
Light-
Cure Critical Wounds
Neutralize Poison
Restoration

Dark-
Death Ward
Enervation
Panacea
Mark of Justice
Inflict Critical Wounds

5th level spells:
Light-
Mass Cure Light Wounds
Raise Dead
Plane Shift

Dark-
Blight
Magic Jar
Mass Inflict Light Wounds
Slay Living
Revivify
Symbol of Pain
Waves of Fatigue

6th level spells:
Light-
Bolt of Glory
Mass Cure Moderate Wounds

Dark-
Circle of Death
Create Undead
Eyebite
Harm
Mass Inflict Moderate Wounds
Symbol of Fear
Undeath to Death

7th level spells:
Light-
Greater Restoration
Heal
Mass Cure Serious Wounds
Regenerate
Resurrection

Dark-
Control Undead
Destruction
Mass Inflict Serious Wounds
Symbol of Weakness
Waves of Exhaustion

8th level spells:
Light-
Mass Cure Critical Wounds

Dark-
Clone
Create Greater Undead
Mass Inflict Critical Wounds
Symbol of Death

9th level spells:
Light-
Mass Heal
True Resurrection

Dark-
Astral Projection
Energy Drain
Soul Bind
Wail of the Banshee


The Path to Balance (Ex): Whenever a Disciple casts a spell that cures hit points or deals negative energy damage (and vice versa), he adds his Intelligence modifier + 1/2 his class level to the amount of damage healed or dealt. This ability only works with spells that use positive or negative energy.

At 7th level this ability becomes The Path to Power. Whenever a Disciple casts a spell that cures hit points or deals either positive or negative energy damage, the spell is treated as if it was cast using the Empower Spell feat. The spell does not use up a higher-level slot. Add the previous bonus after this effect.

At 14th level this ability becomes The Path to Stability. Whenever a Disciple casts a spell that cures hit points or deals either positive or negative energy damage, the spell is treated as if it was cast using both the Empower Spell and Maximize Spell feats. The spell does not use up a higher-level slot. Add the 1st level bonus after this effect.

Orisons (Sp): At first level, a Disciple gains a number of orisons from the Clericís spell list equal to his Intelligence modifier. They may use these orisons any number of times per day as a spell-like ability. The Disciple may change his selection of orisons when he meditates to regain his spells for the day.

Planar Empathy (Ex): A Disciple can use body language, vocalizations, and demeanor to improve the attitude of a native of the elemental or energy planes (such as a djinn, vivacious creatures). This ability functions just like a Diplomacy check made to improve the attitude of a person. The Disciple rolls 1d20 and adds his Disciple level and his Wisdom modifier to determine the Planar Empathy check result. The typical animal and some sentient beings have a starting attitude of indifferent, while wild animals and overtly hostile natives (such as efreet) are usually unfriendly.

To use Planar Empathy, the Disciple and the target must be able to study each other, which means that they must be within 30 feet of one another under normal conditions. Generally, influencing an animal in this way takes 1 minute but, as with influencing people, it might take more or less time.

A Disciple can also use this ability to influence magical beasts native to the Material plane with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2 (such as a basilisk or girallon), but he takes a Ė4 penalty to the check.

Planar Subsistence (Su): The Disciple starts to tap into the energy of the very planes to fuel his bodily functions. At 3rd level he only needs to eat a single meal per week to maintain health and only needs one hour of sleep per night. At 10th level, he gains immunity to all diseases and poisons. Finally, at 15th level, he no longer needs to breathe and never needs to eat or sleep. He now draws nourishment directly from the planes themselves.

Discordant Backlash (Sp): At 4th level, the Disciple gains the ability to channel the combined energies into a defensive shield. Twice per day, the Disciple can enshroud himself in discordant energies as a Standard action. Any creature striking you with its body or a handheld weapon deals normal damage, but at the same time the attacker takes (2d4 + 1 point per caster level) points of sonic damage due to the strike disrupting the delicate balance between the opposing energies. Creatures wielding weapons with exceptional reach, such as long spears, are not subject to this damage if they attack you.

When using this ability, you appear to immolate yourself, but the flames are thin and wispy, giving of dim light equal to a small candle. The color of the flames alternate between black and white in a random pattern.

Elemental Cohort (Su): When a Disciple attains 8th level, he gains the servitude of an elemental. Once per day, as a full-round action, he may magically call upon the cohort from the plane in which it resides. The cohort immediately appears adjacent to the Disciple and remains for 1 hour per Disciple level. It may be dismissed at any time as a free action. The cohort is the same type of elemental each time it is called, though the Disciple may release one elemental from service to gain an elemental of a different kind. Each time the cohort is called, it appears at full health, regardless of any damage it may have taken previously. Calling the cohort is a conjuration effect.

Should the cohort die, it immediately disappears, leaving behind any equipment it was carrying. The Disciple may not call another cohort for 30 days or until he gains a Disciple level, whichever comes first, even if the cohort is somehow returned from the dead. During this 30-day period, the Disciple is thrown out of harmony with the planes and takes a Ė1 penalty to his Caster Level.

Planar Wings (Su): The Disciple can manifest a pair of wings that give him a fly speed of 60 feet (good maneuverability). The wings can be either white or black in coloration, and either feathered or bat like. Manifesting the wings is a swift action, releasing them is a free action. They appear at his back regardless of any items or clothing the Disciple is wearing.

Harmonic Cohort (Su): As the Disciple improves, so to does his cohort. Now both positive and negative energy heal the cohort, and it gains Fast Healing 5. In addition, an even blend of both positive and negative energy enhances its attacks. It adds +4d4 damage to any natural attack it makes.

Harmonic Wings (Su): The Discipleís wings improve, giving him a speed of 120 feet (good maneuverability). If he so chooses, the Disciples wings can now appear spectral and gray. It is now a free action to both manifest and dismiss his wings.

Auras of Energy (Su): At 19th level, the Disciple can rip a piece of one of the energy planes from its home dimension and bring it to the material plane. He gains the ability to project an aura of either Positive or Negative energy. Doing so is a Standard action, and it can be dismissed as a Free action. This ability can be used once a day for a number of rounds equal to his Intelligence modifier x 10. Both himself and his cohort are immune to his auras.

Aura of Positive Energy Ė The Disciple becomes encased in a pillar of crackling white fire, projecting tremendous amounts of positive energy out in a 60ft area centered upon him. Everything within the area brightens considerably as phantom tongues of white flames flicker in the air. Any living creature within the aura gains Fast Healing equal to its Constitution Modifier plus the Disciple's Intelligence modifier, but creatures with immunity to positive energy effects are not affected by this aura. However, just like on the positive plane, this healing is a double-edged sword.


If the creature reaches maximum health, it starts gaining temporary health instead. If this temporary health reaches the same total as its maximum health (ex. a creature with 100 hp reaches 100 hp and 100 thp), the creature is instantly slain as it explodes in a blast of positive energy. The blast heals (or deals if undead) 15d6 damage to all creatures within 15ft of the blast. This healing will convert to temporary health as if it was healing from the aura.

Any undead creatures within the auras range instead take damage equal to its Charisma modifier plus the Disciple's Intelligence modifier each round. Any undead creature killed by the aura cannot be raised as an undead ever again, though a Wish or Miracle will undo the aura's effect.

Aura of Negative Energy Ė The Disciple becomes a humanoid shaped void to the negative plane, sucking in all light and projecting tremendous amounts of negative energy out in a 60ft area centered upon himself. All color fades within the aura while nearby shadows lengthen and begin to move on their own. Any undead creature within the aura gains Fast Healing equal to its Charisma Modifier plus the Disciple's Intelligence modifier, but creatures with immunity to negative energy effects are not affected by this aura. Just like the positive aura, this is can be dangerous for the undead.

If the creature reaches maximum health, it starts gaining temporary health instead. If this temporary health the same total as its maximum health, the creature is instantly slain as it explodes in a blast of negative energy. The blast heals (or deals if living) 15d6 damage to all creatures within 15ft of the blast. This healing will convert to temporary health as if it was healing from the aura.

Any living creatures within the auras range instead take damage equal to its Constitution modifier plus the Disciple's Intelligence modifier each round. Any living creature killed by the aura cannot be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected. A Wish or Miracle can bring the creature back to life.

The Path to Harmony (Su): At 20th level, the Disciple gains perfect harmony with the positive and negative energy planes. He becomes an Outsider (Native), is healed by both positive and negative energy, and gains damage reduction 15/Magic.

He also gains the ability the power to transform himself into a Harmonic Avatar. This ability may be used once a day for a number of rounds equal to his Intelligence modifier x 3.

Harmonic Avatar Ė The Disciple grows in size, becoming a being of harmonic energy. He erupts with black and white flames, and everything within a 60 ft. area turns to shades of gray.

While in this state he gains the following effects:
-His size increases to Huge
-He gains Spell Resistance 30
-He gains Fast Healing equal to his Wisdom modifier plus his Intelligence modifier
-When he is struck by any melee attack, the attacker takes 5d8 damage (this overrides Harmonic Backlash)
-He gains damage reduction 10/- in addition to his existing damage reduction
-He gains the ability to create a weapon of discordant energies as a standard action. This weapon may be any two-handed martial weapon. It counts as a Huge +5 Shadow Striking*, Vicious weapon. He is automatically proficient with it, and may use his Wisdom instead of his Strength to determine his bonus to hit and extra damage dealt. (*Shadow Striking can be found in the Tome of Magic supplement) The weapon disintegrates immediately upon leaving his grip.


The Disciple's Cohort

The Disciple's cohort is different from a normal creature of its kind in many ways. The standard cohort for a Disciple is a small elemental. It is superior to a normal elemental and has special powers, as described below.

{table=head]Disciple Level|Bonus HD| Natural Armor Adj.|Str/Dex/Int Adj.|Special
8th-11th|+0|+0|+0|Empathic Link, Improved Evasion, Share Saving Throws, Share Spells
12th-14th|+2|+2|+2|Size Increase
15th-17th|+4|+4|+2|Devotion, Size Increase
18th-20th|+6|+6|+3|Improved Speed, Spell Resistance, Size Increase[/table]

Cohort Basics: Use the base statistics for the creature of the cohort's kind, but make the following changes:

Disciple Level: The characterís Disciple level, which has a direct effect on the extent of the cohort's special powers.

Bonus HP: Extra eight-sided (d8) Hit Dice, each of which gains a Constitution modifier, as normal. Bonus Hit Dice improve the cohort's base attack and base save bonuses. A cohort's base attack bonus is the same as that of a cleric of a level equal to the cohort's HD. A cohort has good Fortitude and Reflex saves (treat it as a character whose level equals the creatureís HD). The cohort gains extra skill points and feats for bonus HD as normal for advancing a monsterís Hit Dice.

Natural Armor Adj: The number noted here is an improvement to the creatureís existing natural armor bonus. It represents the preternatural toughness of a Disciple's cohort.

Str/Dex/Int Adj: Add this figure to the cohort's Stength, Dexterity, and Intelligence scores.

Empathic Link (Su): The Disciple has an empathic link with his cohort out to a distance of up to 1 mile. The Disciple cannot see through the cohortís eyes, but they can communicate telepathically. Note that misunderstandings are always possible due to the strange way elementals think. Because of this empathic link, the Disciple has the same connection to an item or place that his cohort does, just as with a master and his familiar.

Improved Evasion (Ex): When subjected to an attack that normally allows a Reflex saving for half damage, a cohort takes no damage if it makes a successful saving throw and half damage even if the saving throw fails.

Share Saving Throws: For each of its saving throws, the cohort uses its own base save bonus or the Disciple's whichever is higher. The cohort applies its own ability modifier to saves, and it doesnít share any other bonuses on saves that the Disciple might have (such as from magic items or feats).

Share Spells: At the Disciple's option, he may have any spell (but not any spell-like ability) he casts on himself also affect his cohort. The cohort must be within 5 feet at the time of the casting to receive the benefit. If the spell or effect has duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the cohort if the creature moves farther than 5 feet away and will not affect the cohort again even if it returns to the Disciple before the duration expires. Additionally, the Disciple may cast a spell with a target of ďYouĒ on his cohort (as a touch range spell) instead of on himself. A Disciple and his cohort can share spells even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the cohortís type.

Size Increase: The Disciple's elemental cohort grows in size. It goes up one size catagory every time it recieves this ability. It cannot grow past Huge in this manner.

Devotion (Ex): A cohortís devotion to its master is so complete that it gains a +4 morale bonus on Will saves against enchantment spells and effects.

Improved Speed (Ex): The cohortís base ground speed increases by 10 feet.

Spell Resistance (Su): A cohortís spell resistance equals its masterís Disciple level + 5


The Elemental Cohort is a small elemental of one of the following types: Air, Earth, Fire, Water.

At 16th level add Shadow* to the list of elemental cohort types.

* - Tome of Magic

=-Other related information-=

So I've let it sit for about a month. Had other things going on, so I couldn't spare much time for this. The imbalance in the light side/dark sight spell list. I'm not going to worry about it anymore though, the dark side has the fun stuff anyway. :smallwink:

I'm hesitant to declare it done. Something somewhere could use more work, I feel. Oh well, I'll fix it when it comes up. Its done.

Codemus
2011-10-26, 02:05 AM
Just giving it a little bump to keep it in the public eye. Oh, and if anyone finds any spelling errors or grammatical mistakes, please let me know. Those are embarrassing. :smallredface:

EDIT: Hmm... should I add the impeded magic effects to the auras? It wouldnít do much for the combat, but it would make it more flavorful. Like temporarily turning a 60 ft. section of the material plane into the positive or negative planes.

Necroticplague
2011-10-26, 03:14 PM
Clerics don't gain cantrips, they gain orisons. It should be Skill Focus (Knowledge (The Planes)) if thats how you format knowledge checks, although you could also use Skill Focus (Knowledge:The Planes).

Codemus
2011-10-26, 06:02 PM
Clerics don't gain cantrips, they gain orisons. It should be Skill Focus (Knowledge (The Planes)) if thats how you format knowledge checks, although you could also use Skill Focus (Knowledge:The Planes).

Ah, thanks. I'll correct those right away.

slaydemons
2011-11-02, 12:43 AM
I am not really experienced to this balancing thing, but I really liked the class so I thought I would point out something I thought was a bit off. I have noticed prepared casters tend to gain their next level spells faster but have less of them while this guy seems to prepare his spells and has the spell progression of a sorcerer?

Is he the type to gain them spontaneously, or does he prepare them ahead of time, if its the prepare type I assume its the limited spell list which you haven't made yet that makes him have increased spell capacity.

Codemus
2011-11-02, 01:31 AM
I am not really experienced to this balancing thing, but I really liked the class so I thought I would point out something I thought was a bit off. I have noticed prepared casters tend to gain their next level spells faster but have less of them while this guy seems to prepare his spells and has the spell progression of a sorcerer?

Is he the type to gain them spontaneously, or does he prepare them ahead of time, if its the prepare type I assume its the limited spell list which you haven't made yet that makes him have increased spell capacity.

Indeed, it is as I highlighted above. However, the Ďlimitedí part is turning out to be not so much. Iíve been pouring over my books (I donít have the Spell Compendium :smallfrown:) and just picking out anything of the Necromantic and Conjuration (Healing) and itís quite a list.

The main problem is a lot of the better Necromancy spells are arcane. Iím thinking Iím just going to slap those on the spell list anyway, and see how it all gages out.

Also, still gotta do something about that cohort. It isn't where I want it quite yet. Shadow and Storm elementals seem just flat out better than the core four, but it strikes me as bland to have only the four. Maybe I should go back to giving it an upgrade at 16th level.

Oh, and thanks for liking the class. It can be hard to tell if its liked or not when noone posts. Not that I demand posting, it is still in the WIP stage, not PEACH (If I recall what that is correctly :smallconfused:).

slaydemons
2011-11-02, 10:00 AM
Indeed, it is as I highlighted above. However, the Ďlimitedí part is turning out to be not so much. Iíve been pouring over my books (I donít have the Spell Compendium :smallfrown:) and just picking out anything of the Necromantic and Conjuration (Healing) and itís quite a list.

The main problem is a lot of the better Necromancy spells are arcane. Iím thinking Iím just going to slap those on the spell list anyway, and see how it all gages out.

Also, still gotta do something about that cohort. It isn't where I want it quite yet. Shadow and Storm elementals seem just flat out better than the core four, but it strikes me as bland to have only the four. Maybe I should go back to giving it an upgrade at 16th level.

Oh, and thanks for liking the class. It can be hard to tell if its liked or not when noone posts. Not that I demand posting, it is still in the WIP stage, not PEACH (If I recall what that is correctly :smallconfused:).

I can tell you this much from my own experience, it is hard to come up with your own spell list. as for the most being on the arcane list just say slap it on and say this to those who question "its only a divine spell on this character, also did you know the bard can cast arcane cure spells?" something you should probably take note on is how he gains his spells per level, is it gained all in one level like the cleric or druid?

Edit: my grammar equals bad tell me if you don't understand anything I say.

Codemus
2011-11-02, 01:50 PM
Yep, they gain knowledge of their spells just like a Cleric. Which if I remember right means they just know all spells of the highest spell level they can cast and below. I guess I need to double check that. :smallbiggrin:

slaydemons
2011-11-03, 01:01 PM
Yep, they gain knowledge of their spells just like a Cleric. Which if I remember right means they just know all spells of the highest spell level they can cast and below. I guess I need to double check that. :smallbiggrin:

A yes if the gain it like that they seem to have a lot of spells and may seem like rather overpowered and they should probably get the same as clerics or wizards even

Edit:also I think your missing level 0 spells

Edit 2 double read it my mistake but I still think you have your table off by one using the sorcerer's spell chart

Edit 3: there are a lot of these and I just realized your not using the sorc's list but one you made up.

Codemus
2011-11-03, 07:24 PM
Ha, close. I'm using the spells-per-day chart of the Healer from the Minatures Handbook. It gets fewer spells a day than a sorcerer of similar level, but more than a cleric. I could step it down to the same as the Cleric's and see how it does.

EDIT: Okay, added a spell list after combing through it one more time. It's a little lacking in the later levels though. Also, Necromancy spells way outnumber the ammount of healing spells. I think I need to add some more spells to balance things out. :smallsigh: Maybe the power word spells too, I dunno. I'll figure something out.

slaydemons
2011-11-04, 08:21 PM
Ha, close. I'm using the spells-per-day chart of the Healer from the Minatures Handbook. It gets fewer spells a day than a sorcerer of similar level, but more than a cleric. I could step it down to the same as the Cleric's and see how it does.

EDIT: Okay, added a spell list after combing through it one more time. It's a little lacking in the later levels though. Also, Necromancy spells way outnumber the ammount of healing spells. I think I need to add some more spells to balance things out. :smallsigh: Maybe the power word spells too, I dunno. I'll figure something out.

how about instead of just healing spells just spells that help like buffing spells that should fatten up the light side a bit

Codemus
2011-11-04, 08:59 PM
how about instead of just healing spells just spells that help like buffing spells that should fatten up the light side a bit

Yeah, I think I might have to do just that.

Codemus
2011-12-05, 12:02 AM
Okay, pretty much done. So what does everybody think? Pretty cool right?

radmelon
2011-12-05, 12:09 PM
I must say that I like this class quite a bit. It has good mechanics that support the fluff, and doesn't require you to do too much fiddling around.

jiriku
2011-12-05, 02:00 PM
Overall: A very well-themed class, interesting and stylish. In general, a lot of the class features are fluffy, throw-away benefits that aren't really justifying the space they occupy and the complexity that they add. Level 20's power level is way off the chart compared to the rest of the class. What balance level were you looking for?

Table: Levels 6 and 14 are particularly slow, offering neither a new level of spellcasting or a class feature. Meanwhile, certain levels grant both a new level of spellcasting and a powerful new class feature, like levels 5, 9, and 15. I'd suggest shifting features around to smooth it out a little. This is an extremely minor issue, however.

Spell List: I'd agree that you should feel free to cherry-pick appropriately themed arcane spells where the cleric spell list is too thin. If the arcane spell seems stronger than divine spells of the same level, just grant that spell at one level higher (you'll notice this is already done extensively at upper levels of the cleric and druid lists in the PHB). Also, since you have SO MANY SPELLS PER DAY, consider hunting down a few swift- or immediate-action spells, just to make it easier for the DoB to improve his spell throughput. Close wounds and delay death from the Spell Compendium seems like obvious choices, for example.

The Path to Balance: An excellent fix for the chronic 3.5 problem of cure and inflict spells not healing or dealing enough damage. Well done.

Skill Focus: Fluff feature. Understandable, given the theme, but I wonder if the game effect will be significant enough to justify the space this feature takes up. If I were playing a DoB, I'd prefer a crunchier benefit, like having natives of the elemental and energy planes have an initial reaction one step friendlier than normal towards me, or some other sort of benefit that will directly be of use to me in non-combat encounters with creatures from these planes.

Planar Subsistance: More fluffy features, all quite weak for the levels at which they're gained. In particular, the first two levels of planar subsistance are such minor benefits I'd suggest you just grant both at 3rd level and accelerate the others down to 10th and 15th.

Harmonic Backlash: This is a lot of damage for a 4th level ability. It might be more appropriate at 6th level.

Energy Infusion: a "lay on hands" type ability on a full-casting healer with maximized++ heals. Why? This perk seems entirely redundant with your spell list. Even the eventual improvement to ranged heals doesn't really make it useful.

Elemental Cohort: Props for adding this feature. Pets are stylin', and the ability to swap out cohort for different types of elementals makes this a versatile and useful feature. When the elemental dies, taking large penalties to attack rolls and skill checks on a class that doesn't really make sense on a class that rarely attacks or use skills. I'd suggest a -1 penalty to caster level instead, which would be a more meaningful drawback even though the penalty is much smaller.

Planar Travel: This is kind of a weird ability because of all the limits you've placed on it. I'm having trouble imagining many situations in which the DoB would find it useful to transport himself only to a semi-random location on an elemental or energy plane. I suppose that once you can do it twice per day, you could use it as a poor man's teleport by traveling from the Material to an elemental plane to a desired location on the Material, but even then the lack of accuracy and inability to take anyone with you (even your elemental cohort) really cripples it.

Contrariwise, the 20th-level improvement is wildly powerful, much too powerful for a non-epic game. Unlimited perfect party-wide planar travel just explodes the game in so many ways at once. You don't want to go there.

Have you considered just adding plane shift and greater plane shift to the spell list and removing this feature? Having access to those two spells would be both more useful and better balanced.

Harmonic Cohort, Harmonic Wings: Groovy. Harmonic wings is much too late though. If you've made it to 18th level without gaining some sort of reliable flight ability, then you obviously have a build that doesn't need to fly. OTOH, if you do already have flight, then the wings don't give you anything useful.

The Path to Harmony: This ability is problematic on a number of levels. In general, I think in the effort to make a shiny capstone, you've overpowered it considerably. You need to specify the type of action required to activate and deactivate the ability.

Aura of positive/negative energy: I notice that the DoB himself is not immune to his own aura, which means it's rather easy for you to irrevocably kill yourself with this. That probably wasn't your intent. I think you're looking at a potential balance problem, because this can be used to irrevocably kill any arbitrary enemy or group of enemies with no save. It's also very un-party-friendly, since both auras can easily cause allied deaths. I notice that in confined spaces, there's a considerable risk of triggering a chain reaction among creatures within the aura, where one creature exceeds its temporary hp cap and explodes, granting nearby creatures enough hp to cause them to explode, and detonating other nearby creatures in turn. Imagine what would happen if a PC activated this ability just as the BBEG was in the midst of a flock of pigeons.

Harmonic Avatar: This is a pretty awesome buff. Gaining all these benefits at once is probably as good as any 9th level spell that a cleric or wizard can cast. The real problem with this is the huge pool of available duration for it. You can easily have it up during every encounter, all encounter long, all day long, and still have lots of leftover duration for the positive and negative auras. To be balanced, the benefits need to either scale back considerably, or be usable for less time.

Codemus
2011-12-05, 02:50 PM
I must say that I like this class quite a bit. It has good mechanics that support the fluff, and doesn't require you to do too much fiddling around.

Thank you. That was what I was shooting for.


Wow, big quote. Lets go through this monster one point at a time.

Overall: A very well-themed class, interesting and stylish. In general, a lot of the class features are fluffy, throw-away benefits that aren't really justifying the space they occupy and the complexity that they add. Level 20's power level is way off the chart compared to the rest of the class. What balance level were you looking for?

Ah, thanks and yeah, I've had problems with the balance. Now, as to balance level that I was shooting for? I didn't have a target in mind. Just making it usable was my first goal. I guess I imagine it as a focused Sorcerer?

If you are refering instead to the Teir system, then I'm still unsure. I'm not too familiar with it.


Table: Levels 6 and 14 are particularly slow, offering neither a new level of spellcasting or a class feature. Meanwhile, certain levels grant both a new level of spellcasting and a powerful new class feature, like levels 5, 9, and 15. I'd suggest shifting features around to smooth it out a little. This is an extremely minor issue, however.

I'll take a look at it after work and see what I can do.


Spell List: I'd agree that you should feel free to cherry-pick appropriately themed arcane spells where the cleric spell list is too thin. If the arcane spell seems stronger than divine spells of the same level, just grant that spell at one level higher (you'll notice this is already done extensively at upper levels of the cleric and druid lists in the PHB). Also, since you have SO MANY SPELLS PER DAY, consider hunting down a few swift- or immediate-action spells, just to make it easier for the DoB to improve his spell throughput. Close wounds and delay death from the Spell Compendium seems like obvious choices, for example.

Yeah, the spell list needs a bit more work. I really need to get that spell compendium book. I'm sure it would make things easier, if only a little.


The Path to Balance: An excellent fix for the chronic 3.5 problem of cure and inflict spells not healing or dealing enough damage. Well done.

Thank you.


Skill Focus: Fluff feature. Understandable, given the theme, but I wonder if the game effect will be significant enough to justify the space this feature takes up. If I were playing a DoB, I'd prefer a crunchier benefit, like having natives of the elemental and energy planes have an initial reaction one step friendlier than normal towards me, or some other sort of benefit that will directly be of use to me in non-combat encounters with creatures from these planes.

Now there is an idea. I'll see what I can cook up. Thanks for the tip.


Planar Subsistance: More fluffy features, all quite weak for the levels at which they're gained. In particular, the first two levels of planar subsistance are such minor benefits I'd suggest you just grant both at 3rd level and accelerate the others down to 10th and 15th.

Yeah, I should probably do that. I had based it on what the Shadowcaster did with its... whatever thats called. I think I looked at a few others who had similar abilities, but they were PrCs so it didn't much help.


Harmonic Backlash: This is a lot of damage for a 4th level ability. It might be more appropriate at 6th level.

I figured since it was untyped (so any damage resitance is applicable) it wouldn't have been to much of a problem. That being said, I have yet to playtest this sucker, so you may be on to something. I'll move it to 6th and we will see how that does.


Energy Infusion: a "lay on hands" type ability on a full-casting healer with maximized++ heals. Why? This perk seems entirely redundant with your spell list. Even the eventual improvement to ranged heals doesn't really make it useful.

Well, when I included it in I was thinking more of the Damage aspect of it. Just another tool in the toolbox, or so I thought. Plus, I was scrabbling for any kind of abilities I could think of to throw in and add weight to it.

Hmm... I'll pull it for now, while I think of something else to put in its place. I may have just thought of something, but I'll need to work it out a bit.


Elemental Cohort: Props for adding this feature. Pets are stylin', and the ability to swap out cohort for different types of elementals makes this a versatile and useful feature. When the elemental dies, taking large penalties to attack rolls and skill checks on a class that doesn't really make sense on a class that rarely attacks or use skills. I'd suggest a -1 penalty to caster level instead, which would be a more meaningful drawback even though the penalty is much smaller.

Thank you, and yeah I forgot the penalty was a bit misplaced. That is a better penalty, so it goes in.


Planar Travel: This is kind of a weird ability because of all the limits you've placed on it. I'm having trouble imagining many situations in which the DoB would find it useful to transport himself only to a semi-random location on an elemental or energy plane. I suppose that once you can do it twice per day, you could use it as a poor man's teleport by traveling from the Material to an elemental plane to a desired location on the Material, but even then the lack of accuracy and inability to take anyone with you (even your elemental cohort) really cripples it.

Contrariwise, the 20th-level improvement is wildly powerful, much too powerful for a non-epic game. Unlimited perfect party-wide planar travel just explodes the game in so many ways at once. You don't want to go there.

Have you considered just adding plane shift and greater plane shift to the spell list and removing this feature? Having access to those two spells would be both more useful and better balanced.

Yeah, I guess you are right. I don't realy remember why I did this, I think because I didn't like where the spells were on the table? And yeah I may have gone a bit too far with the whole 'unlimited' thing, I dunno. I'll go back and look at it again.


Harmonic Cohort, Harmonic Wings: Groovy. Harmonic wings is much too late though. If you've made it to 18th level without gaining some sort of reliable flight ability, then you obviously have a build that doesn't need to fly. OTOH, if you do already have flight, then the wings don't give you anything useful.

Yeah, the wings should probably come earlier. Its what I get for puting it at the same level as Favored Soul. I'll just add that to the list of abilities to move. And yeah, the cohort boost was definately needed, since you just leave it in the dust at this point otherwise. You still do frankly, but at least when it gets in melee it can hold its own. Kinda.


The Path to Harmony: This ability is problematic on a number of levels. In general, I think in the effort to make a shiny capstone, you've overpowered it considerably. You need to specify the type of action required to activate and deactivate the ability.

Yeah, this is actualy a dumbed down version. It is way easy to make something too powerful. And now that you mention it, I did forget that. It would be a Standard action for activation and deactivation.


Aura of positive/negative energy: I notice that the DoB himself is not immune to his own aura, which means it's rather easy for you to irrevocably kill yourself with this. That probably wasn't your intent. I think you're looking at a potential balance problem, because this can be used to irrevocably kill any arbitrary enemy or group of enemies with no save. It's also very un-party-friendly, since both auras can easily cause allied deaths. I notice that in confined spaces, there's a considerable risk of triggering a chain reaction among creatures within the aura, where one creature exceeds its temporary hp cap and explodes, granting nearby creatures enough hp to cause them to explode, and detonating other nearby creatures in turn. Imagine what would happen if a PC activated this ability just as the BBEG was in the midst of a flock of pigeons.

Huh, I could have sworn he was immune to his own aura. I remember typing that out somewhere, ah, there it is, right after the duration line. And I ment it as party unfriendly, though I guess that went a little overboard. The chain reactions are what make it the most deadly, and funny. Hmm... yes, this could definately use a retooling. Perhaps taking the explosions off, and just letting them gain HP then tHP, and damaging the opposite as normal?


Harmonic Avatar: This is a pretty awesome buff. Gaining all these benefits at once is probably as good as any 9th level spell that a cleric or wizard can cast. The real problem with this is the huge pool of available duration for it. You can easily have it up during every encounter, all encounter long, all day long, and still have lots of leftover duration for the positive and negative auras. To be balanced, the benefits need to either scale back considerably, or be usable for less time.

Yeah, I couldn't come up with a good duration for the ability. Maybe Int mod times two rounds?

Oh, and thank you for the detailed and insightful response. It is very helpful.

jiriku
2011-12-05, 03:20 PM
I guess I imagine it as a focused Sorcerer?

Ok. Overall, I'd say you've landed pretty close to the target.


Yeah, the spell list needs a bit more work. I really need to get that spell compendium book. I'm sure it would make things easier, if only a little.

If you don't have SpC, you could try creating a few custom spells. A quick trick is to find a buff with a standard-action cast that lasts 1 round/level or 1 minute/level, then reduce the casting time to 1 swift action and the duration to 1 round. For example, "swift bless" would be a 1st-level spell, like bless, and would take a swift action to cast and provide the normal benefit of the bless spell for 1 round.



I figured since it was untyped (so any damage resitance is applicable) it wouldn't have been to much of a problem.

Ah, there's your trouble - untyped damage works the opposite way. Energy resistance blocks damage that shares its descriptor; since untyped damage has no descriptor it bypasses all energy resistances.


Huh, I could have sworn he was immune to his own aura. I remember typing that out somewhere, ah, there it is, right after the duration line. And I ment it as party unfriendly, though I guess that went a little overboard. The chain reactions are what make it the most deadly, and funny. Hmm... yes, this could definately use a retooling. Perhaps taking the explosions off, and just letting them gain HP then tHP, and damaging the opposite as normal?

Perhaps if you simply allowed a save to avoid popping from excess temp hp, and clarified that creatures immune to the effects of the positive or negative energy plane, as appropriate, are also immune to the effect of the aura? There are a series of spells in the Planar Handbook, reprinteded in Spell Compendium, that grant immunity to harmful planar effects.


Yeah, I couldn't come up with a good duration for the ability. Maybe Int mod times two rounds?

That could work. Or maybe you could require the character to expend a 9th-level spell slot to activate it, and have it last longer, maybe as much as 1 minute/level. Or maybe keep the existing duration and have the harmonic avatar state burn through it at 10x the normal rate. Also, I didn't notice it earlier, but the DR 10/- is actually worse than the character's default DR 15/magic if the attacker has a nonmagic weapon, so you probably want to ADD DR 10/- rather than REPLACE with it.

Codemus
2011-12-05, 07:23 PM
Ok. Overall, I'd say you've landed pretty close to the target.

Whew, good.


If you don't have SpC, you could try creating a few custom spells. A quick trick is to find a buff with a standard-action cast that lasts 1 round/level or 1 minute/level, then reduce the casting time to 1 swift action and the duration to 1 round. For example, "swift bless" would be a 1st-level spell, like bless, and would take a swift action to cast and provide the normal benefit of the bless spell for 1 round.

That sounds like a lot of work. :smalleek: Its a good idea though, and I may end up doing that. I'll see if I can get the book before I have to do something like that.


Ah, there's your trouble - untyped damage works the opposite way. Energy resistance blocks damage that shares its descriptor; since untyped damage has no descriptor it bypasses all energy resistances.

Hmm... what about if it was all elemental types, so it was resisted by all? Would that weaken it too much?


Perhaps if you simply allowed a save to avoid popping from excess temp hp, and clarified that creatures immune to the effects of the positive or negative energy plane, as appropriate, are also immune to the effect of the aura? There are a series of spells in the Planar Handbook, reprinteded in Spell Compendium, that grant immunity to harmful planar effects.

Say, that would work just fine, especialy since I intended for it to be basicaly the Disciple pulling a piece of that particular plane into the material.


That could work. Or maybe you could require the character to expend a 9th-level spell slot to activate it, and have it last longer, maybe as much as 1 minute/level. Or maybe keep the existing duration and have the harmonic avatar state burn through it at 10x the normal rate. Also, I didn't notice it earlier, but the DR 10/- is actually worse than the character's default DR 15/magic if the attacker has a nonmagic weapon, so you probably want to ADD DR 10/- rather than REPLACE with it.

Good plan, okay how about this? The auras and avatar have seperate timers? The auras retain Int mod x 10 rounds, the avatar gets Int mod x 3 rounds?

jiriku
2011-12-06, 12:22 PM
Hmm... what about if it was all elemental types, so it was resisted by all? Would that weaken it too much?

Probably would weaken it too much. By levels 11+, most enemies have at least one energy resistance or immunity, so the ability would be badly nerfed or worthless most of the time. I suppose you could give the damage both the positive and negative energy descriptors, so that resistance or immunity to either would apply against the whole. Of course, then it would be useless against undead. You could give half the damage one descriptor and half the damage another descriptor, but I'm not real keen on those sorts of abilities because adjudicating them slows play a little bit and the result isn't really interesting enough to be worth it.


Good plan, okay how about this? The auras and avatar have seperate timers? The auras retain Int mod x 10 rounds, the avatar gets Int mod x 3 rounds?

Separate timers would work great, although in that case you should probably break out harmonic avatar into a separate feature with its own heading and its own entry on the chart.

Codemus
2011-12-06, 01:31 PM
Probably would weaken it too much. By levels 11+, most enemies have at least one energy resistance or immunity, so the ability would be badly nerfed or worthless most of the time. I suppose you could give the damage both the positive and negative energy descriptors, so that resistance or immunity to either would apply against the whole. Of course, then it would be useless against undead. You could give half the damage one descriptor and half the damage another descriptor, but I'm not real keen on those sorts of abilities because adjudicating them slows play a little bit and the result isn't really interesting enough to be worth it.

Hmm... okay, its probably best to ditch this in its spell-like ability form and cook up one myself instead of tweeking the peramiters of an existing spell. I'll do some thinking over it and post it later.


Separate timers would work great, although in that case you should probably break out harmonic avatar into a separate feature with its own heading and its own entry on the chart.

I was just thinking that. Maybe move the auras down to 18-19th level and leave the Avatar at 20th, or vice versa. Spreading it out would help patch the holes too.