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View Full Version : BRCS: Dr Manhattan vs Gin Ichimaru



Sunken Valley
2011-10-23, 04:17 AM
Yes, this is a spin off from Battle Royale thread.

It's a debate thread with a twist, you have to vote for who you think would win like this by bolding the candidates name.

Neither opponent gets support from allies. Opponents are at their most powerful barring one shot power boosts.

Now let's get to the meat

Gin Ichimaru(Bleach) vs Dr Manhattan (Watchmen)

Tengu_temp
2011-10-23, 09:09 AM
Dr Manhattan has almost god-like power, Gin isn't even the strongest character in Bleach. No contest.

Fan
2011-10-23, 09:16 AM
Seriously, Dr.Manhattan disassociates all of Gin's atoms and remakes him into a potted fern.

End game.

Kato
2011-10-23, 09:23 AM
Not that I know a lot about either but is't Gin supposed to be a spirit or something and thus not made of atoms? So, can Manhattan manipulate a soul? On the other hand, if Gin is not made of matter, how would he attack Manhattan? :smallconfused:

Fan
2011-10-23, 09:32 AM
Not that I know a lot about either but is't Gin supposed to be a spirit or something and thus not made of atoms? So, can Manhattan manipulate a soul? On the other hand, if Gin is not made of matter, how would he attack Manhattan? :smallconfused:

He is made out of matter, spirit particles are no different from atoms in how they interact with physical matter.

It's just physical matter that exists outside the visible spectrum except to those of exceptional power, or the dead.

To quote Dr.Manhattan: "A live body and a dead body contain the same number of particles. Structurally, there’s no discernible difference. Life and death are unquantifiable abstracts. Why should I be concerned?"

Forum Explorer
2011-10-23, 10:06 AM
Not that I know a lot about either but is't Gin supposed to be a spirit or something and thus not made of atoms? So, can Manhattan manipulate a soul? On the other hand, if Gin is not made of matter, how would he attack Manhattan? :smallconfused:

We've seen physical people who are pretty much normal (at the time) punch and hit soul reapers and hollows. So Dr. Manhattan wins.

Lord Loss
2011-10-23, 10:14 AM
Gin gets destroyed in a matter of seconds.

Flickerdart
2011-10-23, 11:17 AM
Dr. Manhattan cannot be killed, because he can reform himself at will. Even if he was less powerful than Gin (which he isn't), he would just keep coming back, making it a battle of attrition where one side has infinite resources and the other doesn't.

Fan
2011-10-23, 12:10 PM
I think a more interesting fight would be Dr.Manhattan v.s. one of the Q.

That way it's at least even.

The Glyphstone
2011-10-23, 12:16 PM
Dr. Manhattan vs. Q: Whoever wins, reality loses.

Though in that particular matchup, I'd give it to Q because Dr. M would be more likely to get bored first and lose interest in the fight - Q would stick it out longer just to troll his opponent, while I can't see DrM even starting off with more than middling dedication.

Fan
2011-10-23, 12:32 PM
Dr. Manhattan vs. Q: Whoever wins, reality loses.

Though in that particular matchup, I'd give it to Q because Dr. M would be more likely to get bored first and lose interest in the fight - Q would stick it out longer just to troll his opponent, while I can't see DrM even starting off with more than middling dedication.

True 'nuff.

It would have to be something both would have to dedicate their entire power to protecting / obtaining.

Ravens_cry
2011-10-23, 01:30 PM
The question is what? John de Lancie Q likes humans enough, or at least is interested in them enough that he keeps coming back to pester them. Dr. Manhattan on the other hand had boredom and apathy practically as his defining characteristic for most of the story. So is this set after The Watchmen ends or during?

Kato
2011-10-23, 02:40 PM
Not that I'm saying Gin would win but maybe being able to attack Manhattan's soul would be the way to victory. But meh, I guess it depends on your personal opinion. I'll stay out of it for all I care.

Manhattan vs Q goes to Q, though. Qs, opposed to Manhattan are able to manipulate not only time and space but also to change universal constants. Something beyond even Manhattan's powers.

Fan
2011-10-23, 02:49 PM
Not that I'm saying Gin would win but maybe being able to attack Manhattan's soul would be the way to victory. But meh, I guess it depends on your personal opinion. I'll stay out of it for all I care.

Manhattan vs Q goes to Q, though. Qs, opposed to Manhattan are able to manipulate not only time and space but also to change universal constants. Something beyond even Manhattan's powers.

I dunno about that.

I mean, Manhattan has been able to defy time, physics, and pretty much has been said to be capable of EVERYTHING that Q has done.

H Birchgrove
2011-10-23, 05:39 PM
I dunno about that.

I mean, Manhattan has been able to defy time, physics, and pretty much has been said to be capable of EVERYTHING that Q has done.

Manhattan doesn't defy time; he's trapped by it. If he knows someone will get killed, he won't be able to stop it because he knows he didn't stop it. In other words, he can see the strings we can't.

Fan
2011-10-23, 05:40 PM
Manhattan doesn't defy time; he's trapped by it. If he knows someone will get killed, he won't be able to stop it because he knows he didn't stop it. In other words, he can see the strings.

Actually, he exists in all frames of time at once.

He just doesn't CARE to stop anything.

H Birchgrove
2011-10-23, 05:45 PM
Actually, he exists in all frames of time at once.

He just doesn't CARE to stop anything.

That's a valid interpretation, however I've seen Manhattan more like a Kurt Vonnegut character, like Billy Pilgrim in Slaughterhouse-Five.

Beside, it seems that once Doc has made a decision in one time period, he doesn't change it. That implies fatalism. I think Q can be more trial-and-error.

Lamech
2011-10-23, 05:48 PM
No, he can't change time. A Q would stomp him. Hop back in time and turn him into a banana before he got any power at all. His whole deal is everything has happened, he knows how it turns out, and nothing can be changed.

Q's on the other hand can change time. More to the point Manhattan is severely limited in what he can do. He can't even stop the 100,000 missiles the soviets would launch. A Q could turn them into puppies in a second.

Q>>Manhattan

Fan
2011-10-23, 05:54 PM
That's a valid interpretation, however I've seen Manhattan more like a Kurt Vonnegut character, like Billy Pilgrim in Slaughterhouse-Five.

Beside, it seems that once Doc has made a decision in one time period, he doesn't change it. That implies fatalism. I think Q can be more trial-and-error.

That much is true, and I agree with this being more a fatal personality flaw for him.

I STILL think Q would win, it's just that Dr.Manhattan doesn't have the motivation to use his powers on a scale that would even inflict harm on Q.

The Glyphstone
2011-10-23, 07:43 PM
And that it's uncertain if he could harm Q even if he went all-out - unstoppable force against immovable object and all that.

Killer Angel
2011-10-24, 01:58 AM
It would be interesting to see if someone could actually kill Dr. M.

Eldan
2011-10-24, 06:04 AM
Hmm. That would have to be the very highest tier of power. Lucifer? Death of the Endless? A god or gods of death? Gallifrey?

You know an interesting* match-up?

Dr. Manhattan vs. Destiny of the Endless. They'd both know what would happen, so both of them wouldn't need to act.


*For a given value of interesting.

Mikeavelli
2011-10-24, 10:05 AM
You'd be surprised what innovative munitions can be created by one immortal being who's set his mind on killing another.

Q's are capable of creating something that'll kill even an immortal. Additionally, Dr. Manhattan isn't quite as omniscient as Q (having blank spots in his future-sight, not realizing he wasn't the thing causing people to get cancer) - and he's not nearly as experienced as Q at using the powers that he has.

The Q have, in novels, dealt with beings on a similar power level to themselves and come out ahead. This is, in fact, one of the proposed explanations for why the Alpha Quadrant doesn't have as many super-beings around in the Next Generation era and beyond compared to the original series. Q dealt with them.

So, I'ma give this one to Q.

Also, Gin loses horribly.

Fan
2011-10-24, 11:01 AM
And that it's uncertain if he could harm Q even if he went all-out - unstoppable force against immovable object and all that.

Yeah this is what I gotta agree with, Omniscient V.S. Omniscient is usually pretty boring.

The Glyphstone
2011-10-24, 11:06 AM
Well, for the combatants. For everyone and everything around them, the fight is boring, then briefly exciting, then over. (http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2010-08-29)

Dr.Epic
2011-10-24, 01:51 PM
Actually, he exists in all frames of time at once.

He just doesn't CARE to stop anything.

No. He can't stop it because he can't stop it. It's already happened/is happening. Time - all time - is just one moment to him. He knows what's going to happen and has to do that. To paraphrase the comic: he's a puppet, it's just that he can see the strings. It'd be like me asking you to fix something that happened a week ago.

WalkingTarget
2011-10-24, 08:45 PM
Dr. Manhattan vs. Destiny of the Endless. They'd both know what would happen, so both of them wouldn't need to act.


Well, in an omniscience-off, Destiny can look up everything that has happened or will happen, ever (or maybe he is that - hard to say with the Endless).

Dr. Manhattan only knows everything that he personally experiences. So, if he were able to read through Destiny's book by some time in the future, he'd always have known it as well, but if there are secrets successfully kept from him, then he still doesn't know them.