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View Full Version : need help with samurai fix [3.5]



kulosle
2011-10-25, 04:38 AM
so i kept telling myself that i wouldn't post this till i had reviewed it at a reasonable hour, but it seams that i never have time to get online after midnight. so this is what i have so far. any help would be appreciated. i apologize in advance for all the spell and grammar errors that may occur. i don't know what tier i'm aiming for, what tier is it in you opinion?

BAB: full
HD: d10
all good saves
any lawful
4+int skill points
class skills: balance, climb, concentration, craft, diplomacy, escape artist, handle animal, heal, hide, iaijustsu focus, intimidate, jump, knowledge (history), knowledge (nobility and royalty), listen, move silently, ride, sense motive, spot, survival, swim, tumble

level class feature
1) bushido, power of thine ancestors, bestow knowledge
2) two weapon defense
3) combat expertise, kiai smite
4) power attack, parry
5) weapon specialization,
6) improved two weapon fighting
7) improved two weapon defense, kiai swiftness
8) improved combat expertise, two in one
9) greater weapon focus,
10) improved critical
11) greater two weapon fighting, kiai might
12) greater two weapon defense, continuous blows
13) greater weapon specialization
14) two weapon rend
15) slashing furry
16) superior combat expertise, gift of the ancestors
17) superior two weapon fighting
18) superior two weapon defense
19) weapon supremacy
20) perfected style


bushido- a samurai must uphold his honor and the honor of his ancestors, he will never take part in a fight in which he has an unfair advantage, he will never use sneak attacks or poison as they are dishonorable. a samurai only use arms and armor that he crafted. this discipline lets him craft stronger arms and armor. you can boost your armor, katana, or wakazashi in this way once at each level but you canít add the same adjustment to the same item more then ľ you class level (rounded down, minimum of one).
amor adjustments- +1 to intimidate checks, DR 1/- (stacks), lower armor check penalty by one, improve max dex (if ever raised to 10 or higher the cap gets removed), reduce weight by 5 percent.
weapon adjustments- up critical threat range by 1, redce weight by 5 percent, +1 damage, +1 attack, critical multiplier (when you up the critical modifier it lowers the critical threat range by an amount equal to the new critical multiplier.
these bonuses only apply as long as you use the armor or weapon. you gain the weapon focus (katana & wakazashi) and two weapon fighting feats as long as you uphold the bushido code.

bonus feats- all bonus feats only apply when wielding a wakazashi and katana that you have made. you gain these feats even if you donít meet the prerequisites, if a feat would normally only apply to one weapon it applies two both.

power of thine ancestors- at the beginning of each encounter you gain a number of ancestor points equal to your cha score maximum of half your class level rounded down, called your inheritance score. this represents the pool of knowledge you gain form you ancestor. as long as your point pool isn't empty you gain a +2 to will saves
bestow knowledge 1st- as a free action for one ancestor point you may add your inheritance score as a bonus to any skill check, you can only apply this bonus to each skill once per day
kaiasmite 3nd- as a swift action a samuri can spend up two ancestor points to let out a battle cry and give him self a bonus to hit and damage equal to his ancenstor score on (his next attack or all attacks made that round?)
kaia swiftnes 7th- when someone would provoke an attack of opportunity against you, by spending three points you gain an additional attack of opportunity for that round.
kaia might 12th- when a samurai hits a traget he may spend 4 points to gain an additional attack against the same target he just struck

parry- when fighting defensively or using combat expertise to gain a dodge bonus if someone misses you in melee combat by the amount that your swords are giving you to your ac (by any means, two weapon defense, defending quality, etc) + your dodge, youíre next attack against that target gains a bonus equal to the amount that the target missed by

two as one- when striking with a katana that you crafted, not during a full round attack, you may make a second attack with a wakazashi at its full attack bonus

continuous blows- when you make an attack you may add +1 damage for each previous attack youíve made in that round.

gift of the ancestors- you may bestow the benefits of you abilities to anyone who shares you alignment, you may spend ancestor points to aid them instead of yourself.

superior two weapon fighting- no two weapon fighting penalties.

superior two weapon defense- shield bonus goes to 4 and counts against touch attacks

superior combat expertise- for every 1 that you minus to BAB you may add two

perfected style- for each 1 you minus from BAB adds to both combat expertise and power attack, wakazashis and katanas that you make and wield are treated at being held in two hands when ever it would be beneficial, a samurai can make intimidate checks as a free action

tempestman
2011-10-25, 07:33 PM
Not to toot my own horn, but you might want to look at this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206517). It's a solid Tier 3 class but requires your DM to allow the Tome of Battle book.

It's a little better than the Warblade, but it has stricter role-playing guidelines.

kulosle
2011-10-26, 12:53 AM
thats the problem is my DM doesn't like the tomb of battle. but i have to say this looks like a very solid class.

Hazzardevil
2011-10-26, 03:54 AM
thats the problem is my DM doesn't like the tomb of battle. but i have to say this looks like a very solid class.

I don't understand why people keep banning some book called tomb of battle, it doesn't even exist!

Ziegander
2011-10-26, 04:52 AM
Tomb and Tome are not the same word. One is a place for keeping the dead, the other is a book.

Nero24200
2011-10-26, 05:10 AM
I don't understand why people keep banning some book called tomb of battle, it doesn't even exist!

Because people are different and don't always like the same thing. Is there something wrong with someone not liking TOB?

gkathellar
2011-10-26, 05:32 AM
Why is everyone convinced that samurai fought mostly with two weapons?

A number of points.


It's "kiai," not "kaia." A kiai is a shout, like in karate. A kaia is not a word I recognize.
You're missing your weapon and armor proficiencies.
The Bushido ability is startlingly unclear in terms of its use and how its effects are applied.
Perfected Style is a run-on sentence that I only barely managed to understand.


Most of your class abilities are mediocre, or are actually just bonus feats. Still, some of them could be reasonably effective. This clocks in at about Tier 5 ó approximately as effective as a mid-optimization fighter.


Because people are different and don't always like the same thing. Is there something wrong with someone not liking TOB?

Look, you can't just bash on some guy's grave site and expect people to be okay with it. :smalltongue:

Veklim
2011-10-26, 05:52 AM
Tomb and Tome are not the same word. One is a place for keeping the dead, the other is a book.
I feel your pain dude, but if you were to go around correcting every spelling/grammatic mistake you come across, you'd be here 24/7 and still fail!

With regards to the class, you need 3 things:
1. Learn how to make a table, it's not as hard as you may think (just slightly laborious!)
2. Tidy up what you actually want each ability to do and word them in a manner closer to SRD, alot of it may seem like pointless reiteration and stating the obvious, but it's important that people know EXACTLY what it does, how it does it and the in-game mechanics, i.e. action required, time taken, cost/resources needed, what type of bonus a numerical value actually is, etc.
3. Drop the idea of the 2 weapon fighting as standard. A katana is designed as a two handed weapon, the fact that it acts like a bastard sword is pretty much dead wrong in my opinion, and it should have a higher critical, but that's just me! The waki is designed as a backup, it's shorter and held at a different angle on the waist so you can draw it to defend yourself even if you're on your back. The tanto is purely for the purposes of suicide in 95% of cases.

Bushido means 'way of the warrior' representing both the behavioural code and the martial training of a samurai (amongst others), so the first paragraph or so of the ability makes sense. I do however take issue with the rest of it. It's actually primarily unarmed techniques to begin with, you only learn the use of weapons properly a bit later. As such it has little-to-mothing to do with weapon/armour enhancements and would suit more generalised combat abilities/boni much better, consider changing the name.

Calmar
2011-10-26, 06:44 AM
I feel your pain dude, but if you were to go around correcting every spelling/grammatic mistake you come across, you'd be here 24/7 and still fail!

I'm confused about the whole affair... I thought "tome" rhymes with "home", while "tomb" rhymes with "boom", or doesn't it?? :smallconfused:

deuxhero
2011-10-26, 07:26 AM
*insert link to OotS with Miko's rant on profession v class here*

kulosle
2011-10-26, 07:26 AM
like i said i haven't actually gotten the chance to go over this while fully conscious but i agree with everything said thus far and will make a new version soon. today or tomorrow. thanks for the advice
the reason i'm going with two weapon fighting is because that's what the original was and i'm just trying to make a better version of it.

Veklim
2011-10-26, 07:41 AM
If that's the case then you may wish to consider offering a choice of 2 or 3 fighting styles (a la the ranger), make 2 wf one of those, but stick with 2 handed katana for the base. Many samurai used polearms of varying types with more frequency than the katana btw, so perhaps that would suffice as a 3rd option?

Hazzardevil
2011-10-26, 08:37 AM
I'm confused about the whole affair... I thought "tome" rhymes with "home", while "tomb" rhymes with "boom", or doesn't it?? :smallconfused:

Tome and Tomb rhyme,so they are pronounced the same way.

tempestman
2011-10-26, 01:20 PM
I'm confused about the whole affair... I thought "tome" rhymes with "home", while "tomb" rhymes with "boom", or doesn't it?? :smallconfused:

You're right.


Tome and Tomb rhyme,so they are pronounced the same way.

They sound similar, but they don't actually rhyme.

Ziegander
2011-10-26, 02:12 PM
Tome and Tomb rhyme,so they are pronounced the same way.

No. Tomb is pronounced as [toom] (http://www.forvo.com/word/tomb/), while Tome is pronounced as [tohm] (http://www.forvo.com/word/tome).

Aaaaaanyway, this thread tempts me to write a new Samurai class, but I'm not sure I want to try and do a historically accurate one. What do people want to see from a Samurai class?

Hazzardevil
2011-10-26, 04:16 PM
No. Tomb is pronounced as [toom] (http://www.forvo.com/word/tomb/), while Tome is pronounced as [tohm] (http://www.forvo.com/word/tome).

Aaaaaanyway, this thread tempts me to write a new Samurai class, but I'm not sure I want to try and do a historically accurate one. What do people want to see from a Samurai class?

All my life I have been pronouncing tome wrong.

gkathellar
2011-10-26, 04:27 PM
Aaaaaanyway, this thread tempts me to write a new Samurai class, but I'm not sure I want to try and do a historically accurate one. What do people want to see from a Samurai class?

Not to be intentionally contrary, but I want one that doesn't viscerally upset me with OMG JAPANESE PEOPLE ARE DIFFERENT!!!1! Why do we get a new "Japanese swordguy" class every other week, but "fighter" is supposed to encompass every single other culture of swordguys in existence?

Which means I want a fighter class. Huh. Didn't you do one of those already?

We are derailing this thread so hard, guys. This is amazing.

Veklim
2011-10-27, 11:57 AM
Why do we get a new "Japanese swordguy" class every other week, but "fighter" is supposed to encompass every single other culture of swordguys in existence?

A good point and very well made.Both of them!

Perhaps someone should drop this samurai business and make a Viking class instead.....?

tempestman
2011-10-27, 12:19 PM
A good point and very well made.Both of them!

Perhaps someone should drop this samurai business and make a Viking class instead.....?

The barbarian? Well, maybe the barbarian with the Berserker PrC from Deities and Demigods

kulosle
2011-10-27, 11:27 PM
so if i'm working on different weapon styles idea. and i did some research and the most commonly used weapons (not necessarily in order) were, katana, katana and wakazashi, bows, and pole arms. so i thought i could make a style for each of them as suggested. i know what to do for TWF tons of stuff for it, similarly, there is plenty for reach weapons and bows. but what should i do for the katana users. oh and i'd like to come up with names for each style if anyone has some ideas that would be nice.

and i totally support the idea of someone making a viking class.

oh and due to mid terms being next week i may be a while in reposting the next version of the class.

bobthe6th
2011-10-28, 12:19 AM
(man, had to delete a long rant about the sillyness of flavor infused base classes, as people beat me to it.)

there are a dozen fighter fixes that could get a nice samurai going, like a two handed smack around battle lord (see my sig, by the king of fighter fixes).

jiriku
2011-10-28, 12:54 AM
Yah, I'd definitely encourage you to root through the forums and borrow/steal from the many, many, many fighter fixes posted here. The disciplined fighting style ACF in my own fighter fix is pretty decent as a samurai, if I may modestly mention it. And there are so many other martial classes in this forum with very good ideas in them.

Looking at yours, I'd agree with gkathellar - this is pretty squarely a tier 5 class. Most people find the game enjoyable when playing a class that's Tier 4 or better, so if you're aiming for that level of power/versatility, this could use some improvement.

A few general principles to follow:
Never bother giving +1 or +5% to anything unless you really know what you're doing. Usually, such bonuses are too small to have the desired effect.
Whenever you're tempted to grant a small numerical bonus, add a new option instead. For example, instead of gaining +1 damage for each attack you've made in a round, you might offer the ability to stun, daze, stagger, or knock prone an enemy whom you strike more than once. Instead of gaining +1 on an Intimidate check, you might gain the ability to spend a swift action to attempt to paralyze with your chi anyone whom you have successfully demoralized with your use of Intimidate.

kulosle
2011-10-30, 06:07 AM
so i've been doing some digging through the endless sea of internet forums and threads looking at ideas to use and modify for my purposes and i think i've come to a conclusion

i really don't care about modifying martial classes anymore. nope not at all. enough people have made good enough fixes and i don't really care enough to try and one up them or find the one fluff/theme no ones thought of yet (and actually some one has thought of it, i just haven't found it yet.) thanks for all the advice, especially the one about giving the choice to do different actions like daze or stun instead of bonuses. that sounds like something someone should do instead of trying to turn the fighter into someone who uses feats like spells (i found sooo much of that while digging).

the help was appreciated but i think i'll stay away from the martial classes for a long long time. i should stay with sneaks and skill monkeys where i belong. thank you playground