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Vashnevskaya
2011-11-01, 06:16 PM
Hi to everyone

This message is specilly aimed to the owners of the OOTS copyright, and since I haven't found any thread about it, nor a contact e-mail, I'm exposing my idea here.

I'd like to translate or participate in a spanish translation of the OOTS within the comic images. I ain't looking for profits, but for sharing this great comic with the spanish gaming community, which I belong to.

I don't wanna transgress the copyright, so here I am, awaiting for a response, and hoping to carry on with this idea.


Dossvidanja!

NerfTW
2011-11-02, 12:10 AM
A) Rich Burlew is the owner/author.

B) It's usually no for what you're proposing. Text translations (as in separate from the comic) are acceptable, but altering the comic itself to insert the translated text is a very big no.

It's probably better to offer the translated text and a link to this site. You certainly wouldn't be allowed to post the images on some other site, regardless of what you did to the text.

Waylor
2011-11-02, 04:53 AM
There was another project a few years ago (at least 4 years) but it closed, probably because of not being able to post the images like Nerf said. Also, theres a good amount of jokes culture/language related that would be hardly translated to spanish.

Egiam
2011-11-02, 05:17 AM
NerfTW and Waylor are correct.

However, explaining OOTS to Spanish speakers sounds like a fun challenge to me. Elements such as Elan's puns and whatnot have no chance of getting across, but I would challenge you to try things like Durkon's accent. :)

faustin
2011-11-02, 06:47 AM
but I would challenge you to try things like Durkon's accent

Iīm Spanish, with only a mid-level English, and half of the time I donīt really know whatīs the hell he is saying.
And yeah, puns are almost impossible to properly translate.

ThePhantasm
2011-11-02, 07:29 AM
Hi to everyone

This message is specilly aimed to the owners of the OOTS copyright, and since I haven't found any thread about it, nor a contact e-mail, I'm exposing my idea here.

The OOTS is the copyright of Rich Burlew, as can be clearly seen at the bottom of every strip page. You can contact him by sending a message to The Giant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/member.php?u=14856).

Vashnevskaya
2011-11-02, 07:48 AM
NerfTW and Waylor are correct.

However, explaining OOTS to Spanish speakers sounds like a fun challenge to me. Elements such as Elan's puns and whatnot have no chance of getting across, but I would challenge you to try things like Durkon's accent. :)

It's a challenge indeed, but not impossible. You just need to understand the joke and think about the equivalent in spanish. And for Durkon, we have something called "medieval spanish", as well as a lot of different accents, so I think it could work.

About the "giant" contact, thank you very much, I'll ask himself. Understand that I could make only a text translation, but reading the comic this way takes away a lot of fun asociated with the images, and people gets tired really soon.

Thanks to everybody!

The Giant
2011-11-02, 10:17 AM
I'm sorry, but my position on translating the comics remains the same as it has for several years: I'm not interested in pursuing official translation of the comic for various reasons, not the least of which is my inability to maintain quality control over the finished product (because I only speak English). I had attempted to have translations in other languages, made by volunteers, early in the strip's history; I was regularly told that they were very poorly written and eventually removed them from site. Since I have no way of personally verifying whether another person is doing a good or a bad job translating, I choose to keep OOTS in English.

However, anyone is permitted to make a "fan translation" of the text and post it here or on another website, but please do not alter the images to place that text into the speech balloons. This is both because I generally do not allow my copyrighted images to be altered and reposted at all, and also to avoid the appearance that a given fan translation is "official." Whether or not people get tired of reading the comic with fan-translated text open in a separate window is not really a problem I am going to worry about.

Vashnevskaya
2011-11-02, 10:49 AM
Hi


Ok, I've read the post and I understand and agree with your position. Let me ask you about another idea:

- Post of the original picture.
- When you pass the mouse over a balloon, a text appears over it, kinda animated gif style.
- The original picture would remain unaltered.
- It would be clearly stated that it's a fan-made translation, that I do not own the rights of the picture, and a link to the original one would be attached.

I was thinking on a PDF printing posted on a page you own, with pop-up notes, or something like that.
Do you would it be possible to carry on this idea according to your position and without trespassing your rights of the comic?

Thanks for your time

The Giant
2011-11-02, 10:57 AM
No, because I do not allow any other website to repost my existing comic images for any reason. Since the plan you mention would require you to first post the comics on another website before adding the "pop-ups," I can't permit it.

Vashnevskaya
2011-11-02, 11:00 AM
No no, I mean making the job, and posting the images at a page that you own, like this forum.

Zherog
2011-11-02, 11:56 AM
First... Welcome to the forums, Vash. Always nice to see new faces around this place.

Don't know if it's helpful to you or not, but the German Translation thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4972) is (I believe) the only current translation on this site. Taking a browse through that thread might give you some ideas and such.

Ron Miel
2011-11-03, 08:48 AM
No, because I do not allow any other website to repost my existing comic images for any reason. Since the plan you mention would require you to first post the comics on another website before adding the "pop-ups," I can't permit it.

The following is just a suggestion, but it would avoid those specific things that you object to.

Just suppose that the translator's website has a frame. The frame shows your entire website.

Not a copy of your website, but a direct link to the original.

But there's a transparent image, with alt-text superimposed over the frame. So when someone does a mouseover they see a translation.

The point is, they will not be copying, altering or adding to your images and it will leave all your links intact, e.g. your links to the shop. So you wouldn't lose sales of mugs and books either.

Would that be acceptable in principle?

ThePhantasm
2011-11-03, 10:11 AM
Ron, if I'm understanding Rich correctly the concern isn't just with not having links to the shop there. It is with any third party site giving off the appearance or impression that it is in any way giving an officially sanctioned translation of the strip, or that it is officially affiliated with the strip.

I don't think Rich is looking for a workaround here. Also, placing another webpage within a frame without permission is copyright infringement. Web frames are not copyright loopholes.

NerfTW
2011-11-03, 10:16 AM
No no, I mean making the job, and posting the images at a page that you own, like this forum.

That would fall under the "implying an official connection". You cannot repost the comics in the forum.



Just suppose that the translator's website has a frame. The frame shows your entire website.

Not a copy of your website, but a direct link to the original.
.....

The point is, they will not be copying, altering or adding to your images and it will leave all your links intact, e.g. your links to the shop. So you wouldn't lose sales of mugs and books either.

Would that be acceptable in principle?

That's still technically reposting the image. In fact, it's hotlinking directly to the page within your site. That's one of those things that's been getting people sued right now, since a lot of shady websites are using the "My site is just a frame around the other site's content, so it's not stealing" method. Most recently with the I Can Haz Cheezeburger site. (or maybe it was Facebook Fails... One of those)

While technically speaking, in principle you might be able to argue it's within the rule, you're still basically drop kicking the spirit of the rule over the horizon.

Ron Miel
2011-11-03, 01:07 PM
Ron, if I'm understanding Rich correctly the concern isn't just with not having links to the shop there. It is with any third party site giving off the appearance or impression that it is in any way giving an officially sanctioned translation of the strip, or that it is officially affiliated with the strip.

I don't think Rich is looking for a workaround here.

You are probably correct, but it is just barely possible that he would officially sanction a translation, provided that

1) The translation is of sufficiently high quality
2) It doesn't involve someone else altering Rich's images
3) Rich's images are not copied to another site
4) It is perfectly clear who is the creator and owner of the strip
5) Links to the shop are left intact
6) The translator doesn't expect to be paid for it, or try to make money from ads.
7,8,9) Some other things that I haven't thought of.

Given all of the above, he might give his permission. There again, he might not.


Also, placing another webpage within a frame without permission is copyright infringement. Web frames are not copyright loopholes.

This, I think, is probably wrong. Opening another website in a frame isn't stealing that website.

For example, Google does it all the time. Various pages (http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tierenzyklopaedie.de%2Ftiere%2F zebramanguste.html)in Google have frames that show other websites. No copyright problems.

Unisus
2011-11-03, 01:42 PM
1) The translation is of sufficiently high quality


That is exactly what the Giant sais he can not guarantee for any foreign language. He does not want his comics with a wrong translation, and i think we all know how hard it is to translate things right, as any translation is already a interpretation. More so for comedy where there are so many subtle gags in the wording. And as the Giant has no possibility to make sure that any translation is right, he does not want any translation to be directly implemented in his comics.

Vashnevskaya
2011-11-03, 02:51 PM
Hi

Ok. What about the idea of the frame, but stating that it's a fan made, non-official translation?

Let's make clear that it would be a frame that'd work by visiting this page, and not posting a copy of the images, thus, no reposting as the Giant wanted.

Dossvidanja!

NerfTW
2011-11-03, 03:03 PM
This, I think, is probably wrong. Opening another website in a frame isn't stealing that website.

For example, Google does it all the time. Various pages (http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tierenzyklopaedie.de%2Ftiere%2F zebramanguste.html)in Google have frames that show other websites. No copyright problems.

And Google has been criticized for it, as have other sites that leave a banner frame at the top of the page when you click on an outside link. Some sites, like the one I mentioned, out and out place a bunch of ad wrappers around the site itself, and have been sued. The legality of it is in question. The web is still rather new, and laws have not caught up. It's not a cut and dried situation, and frankly Google is a terrible indication of what's acceptable, due to their sheer size and power, and being one of the more subtle examples.

It's still a form of rehosting, since the original site's author has absolutely zero control over anything that gets put in the other frames. Hardcore porn ads, malware, links to PDF files of his books, whatever. He would have no control and that's never a good thing, even if the person doing it promises (pinky swears, even) not to do something like that.

ThePhantasm
2011-11-03, 03:37 PM
Many of these sites that have been sued end up losing too. Seems like usually when in doubt the court seems to side with the original creator. There was some news aggregator site I read about awhile back that had several different mainstream news pages in frames on the aggregator site, and the news corps didn't like that. They sued, and the aggregator lost.

There may or may not be an official copyright "rule" about it, but there are certainly court precedents in place.