Request: Lycanthropy class

[lunar2]

I'd like a Lycanthropy based class. not just a racial class for a lycanthrope, but a regular 20 level base class centered around the idea of lycanthropy. specifically, I want a werebear, that will eventually become a dire werebear.

what I've thought of so far is Dire Animal RHD (D8 hd, all good saves, 3/4 BAB, 2+ Int skills) with the class skills being: climb, handle animal, intimidate, jump, Knowledge (nature), listen, spot, survival, swim. probably simple weapons, light armor, no shields. my problem is figuring out the advancement of the class features. by level 20, i definitely want everything a natural dire werebear would have.

and the fluff would be something along the lines of ancient monks meditating on their animal spirits, and transforming into bears, with the "curse" of lycanthropy being transferred from them.

[Codemus]

Sounds like a good idea. Probably shouldn't be limited to one beasty though. Maybe make it variable, depending on which animal you choose at level one? At any rate, I'll try and think of some things for it later.

[NeoSeraphi]

I'd like a Lycanthropy based class. not just a racial class for a lycanthrope, but a regular 20 level base class centered around the idea of lycanthropy. specifically, I want a werebear, that will eventually become a dire werebear.

what I've thought of so far is Dire Animal RHD (D8 hd, all good saves, 3/4 BAB, 2+ Int skills) with the class skills being: climb, handle animal, intimidate, jump, Knowledge (nature), listen, spot, survival, swim. probably simple weapons, light armor, no shields. my problem is figuring out the advancement of the class features. by level 20, i definitely want everything a natural dire werebear would have.

and the fluff would be something along the lines of ancient monks meditating on their animal spirits, and transforming into bears, with the "curse" of lycanthropy being transferred from them.

If you'd like some inspiration, I suggest you take a look at the weretouched master class from Races of Eberron.

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

The psychic warrior from the Expanded Psionics Handbook can fill that sort of role pretty well.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/psychicWarrior.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/clawsoftheBeast.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/biteoftheWolf.htm

[Codemus]

If you'd like some inspiration, I suggest you take a look at the weretouched master class from Races of Eberron.

The psychic warrior from the Expanded Psionics Handbook can fill that sort of role pretty well.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/psychicWarrior.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/clawsoftheBeast.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/biteoftheWolf.htm

Both of these are excellent ideas.

EDIT: Hey wait a second, what page is Wheretouched Master on? I can't find it.

[lunar2]

@variable animals. that could work, as long as all the animals are similar power to the dire bear. rat/dire rat wouldn't fit without a LOT of extrapolation and extra buffs, for example.

@psychic warrior. that's not what i'm looking for. I know i COULD just play a druid, and be a bear with wildshape, or i could get mechanically similar effects from x levels in y classes, but there's just something about actually being a lycanthrope. it's more fun that way.

i know what i want from this class (to be a dire werebear), i just don't know how to space out the abilities over 20 levels, and i need to sneak it into a "no monsters as races" campaign. DM has pre-approved monster classes, though, as long as they are structured like base or prestige classes, and not just a monster broken down into parts, so no LA thrown in randomly, it needs to be a standard base class, hopefully with decent extrapolation into epic levels, in case we get that far. dire werebear shouldn't be too hard for that though, since it's 12hd and la 3.

actually, spread out into 20 levels it might be too weak. maybe it could be dire bear at lv. 15, and advanced (huge) dire bear at Lv. 20?

this is why i don't like homebrewing classes. i always get indecisive, and can't spread the abilities properly.

[Codemus]

@variable animals. that could work, as long as all the animals are similar power to the dire bear. rat/dire rat wouldn't fit without a LOT of extrapolation and extra buffs, for example.

Well, the were-rat would be focused on stealthy stuff. Maybe some limited sneak attack progression.

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

Besides high-level abilities like fast healing and summon monster, you could tie it into nature spirits (which are a nice generic fantasy "thing".) Ability to ask an augury of an ancient animal spirit once per week. Ability to use astral projection (not the spell) to let your spirit take an incorporeal animal form. Ability to bind an animal spirit to yourself or to allies for any of the six stat-boosting spells once per day. The augury thing could be a decent class feature as early as third level.

Is that the sort of thing you're looking for?

[Codemus]

Nice ideas. I'll throw them into what I'm working on, if you don't mind.

[Thugorp]

I agree it would be too weak. I would suggest having level 20 end with the huge advanced one. Also, normal monster advancement is perfectly fine for Carrying it into epic levels so that's done.

A few notes though, The class shouldn't have proficiency with any armor, there is no need for it. Reasonably any one of this class would be used to fighting in bear form and, since bears don't wear armor, wouldn't bet much practice wearing it; and there for not be proficient in it's use. That doesn't stop them from putting armor on, it just means that like any normal person who does so, there are penalties to do so.

On a similar note, I don't think Handel Animal should be a class skill. I mean I know why it is an awesome skill, and every character I have ever made has had it. and possibly so should yours, but it should probably be taken as a cross class skill in this case. Why would a wear-bear have any particular skill in the training of animals? I mean, being able to turn into a bear doesn't nessisarily give you any insight into dogs, cats, or any pray or service animals. It would probably give you insight into bear handling and to a lesser extent the handling of other solitary, omnivorous, predators but that could probably better be reped. by a bonus when dealing with those animals.

I do believe that there is a lycanthrope monster class in the savage species guide. I think it is only fifteen levels, but if that is the case you could just look up the racial progression(monster advancement) in the M.M. and tack five levels of that on to the end. I hope this helps :-)

[lunar2]

well, when i was trying to do it, you didn't gain hybrid form until 3rd level, so you would need some armor until then.

as for handle animal, i did include it because i was thinking being able to turn into an animal would give you some insight into how animal minds work. you may not know exactly how a dog thinks, but you have some experience with dealing with Intelligence 1 or 2 brains, so you'd be better able to figure out effective training methods, etc.

maybe not, but i also wanted 9 class skills. My first DM told me to always give at least 9 class skills to classes with 2+ skill points, otherwise the 18 Int human will be complaining all the time. so whenever i try to build a class, i always make sure that human has enough class skills.

another idea i had was for the class to have wild empathy, because normal lycanthropes do get lycanthropic empathy. so, wild empathy, +4 for similar creatures, can use wild empathy at -4 against lycanthropes, maybe?

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

A few notes though, The class shouldn't have proficiency with any armor, there is no need for it. Reasonably any one of this class would be used to fighting in bear form and, since bears don't wear armor, wouldn't bet much practice wearing it; and there for not be proficient in it's use. That doesn't stop them from putting armor on, it just means that like any normal person who does so, there are penalties to do so.
Sounds good to me, they can take Armor Proficiency feats or multiclass into fighter if they want barding armor.

But you should explicitly note what happens to their clothing and armor when they shapeshift. Lycanthropy is pretty explicit about armor breaking when you shapeshift.


On a similar note, I don't think Handel Animal should be a class skill. I mean I know why it is an awesome skill, and every character I have ever made has had it. and possibly so should yours, but it should probably be taken as a cross class skill in this case. Why would a wear-bear have any particular skill in the training of animals? I mean, being able to turn into a bear doesn't nessisarily give you any insight into dogs, cats, or any pray or service animals. It would probably give you insight into bear handling and to a lesser extent the handling of other solitary, omnivorous, predators but that could probably better be reped. by a bonus when dealing with those animals.
Handle Animal is also used to influence the attitude of animals (much like Diplomacy). I would leave it in.


I do believe that there is a lycanthrope monster class in the savage species guide. I think it is only fifteen levels, but if that is the case you could just look up the racial progression(monster advancement) in the M.M. and tack five levels of that on to the end. I hope this helps :-)
I would recommend that you throw most of that out and focus on making it a 20-level class. Make most of the class generic, but give them a list of different animal abilities which are all mostly balanced against one another (much like the Pathfinder druid animal companion rules.)


another idea i had was for the class to have wild empathy, because normal lycanthropes do get lycanthropic empathy. so, wild empathy, +4 for similar creatures, can use wild empathy at -4 against lycanthropes, maybe?
I'd just make it the ability to use Handle Animal in the same manner as Diplomacy, with a +4 bonus when using it against animals of the same species. Against lycanthropes, you'd be stuck using Diplomacy (because a lycanthrope is going to have motives and goals, unlike animals that just need to decide how to react to you.)

[zegram 33]

you could have 3 or 4 creatures with preferred attack style differing slightly?
so say, werewolf might gain bonuese to "lunge" type attack, get pounce and whatever,wereboar or something might get "bullrush" type bonueses, then werebear with grappleing bonuses

maybe have it (and this is a very rough idea, but just a vague template) double your physical scores but halve your mental ones (or maybe x1.5 physical and halve mental, or something) so you can run , jump, etc massivley well, but are more susceptible to will-save based effects
also, perhaps increase the movement speed and BAB on a sliding scale for each version (so werewolf gets very high speed, jump, manouverability etc, but only a bit above average BAB but with maybe extra attacks, wereboar gets middling, and bear gets normal movement speed but greatly enhanced BAB)

also, for a bit of flavour, maybe have howl attacks that instill decent fear effects, and seperate roar attacks that inspire allies (perhaps based on the creature, so werewolf inceases allies movement speed/dex, bear increases strength/con, boar increases chance to hit or something)
maybe even add a sonic damage roar for some ranged ability (and lets face it, its an iconic lycanthropic thing isnt it?)

sorry if that was a bit too indepth for the outline we're looking for, but i hope some of it is handy

[Codemus]

you could have 3 or 4 creatures with preferred attack style differing slightly?
so say, werewolf might gain bonuese to "lunge" type attack, get pounce and whatever,wereboar or something might get "bullrush" type bonueses, then werebear with grappleing bonuses

Ha, this is exactly what I'm putting into my version.


maybe have it (and this is a very rough idea, but just a vague template) double your physical scores but halve your mental ones (or maybe x1.5 physical and halve mental, or something) so you can run , jump, etc massivley well, but are more susceptible to will-save based effects
also, perhaps increase the movement speed and BAB on a sliding scale for each version (so werewolf gets very high speed, jump, manouverability etc, but only a bit above average BAB but with maybe extra attacks, wereboar gets middling, and bear gets normal movement speed but greatly enhanced BAB)

The way I am working it, you start with animal form, using its physical stats and your own mental stats. Once you hit level 5, you get hybrid form. In that form you use your own stats, but they get boosted. In my version, it already has full BAB for all types.


also, for a bit of flavour, maybe have howl attacks that instill decent fear effects, and seperate roar attacks that inspire allies (perhaps based on the creature, so werewolf inceases allies movement speed/dex, bear increases strength/con, boar increases chance to hit or something)
maybe even add a sonic damage roar for some ranged ability (and lets face it, its an iconic lycanthropic thing isnt it?)

I didn't think of a howl attack. That is added to the list.


sorry if that was a bit too indepth for the outline we're looking for, but i hope some of it is handy

Oh its handy all right. Thanks. :smallwink:

[lunar2]

well, if you're going to do fighting styles, by the actual animals wolf is a tripper, bear is a grappler, tiger is a charger, and boar is a rager.

[Codemus]

well, if you're going to do fighting styles, by the actual animals wolf is a tripper, bear is a grappler, tiger is a charger, and boar is a rager.

Yep, I've also got a rogue-ish Were-Rat, and a constricting poisonous Were-Snake. Well, planning on it anyway.