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View Full Version : [D&D 3.5] Yaskb! Yet another Soulknife build.



Abstractone13
2011-11-08, 12:37 AM
As others, I've read the class and love the concept but see the failings as the class stands. Some friends and I decided to put together another soulknife fix. After looking at several other sample fixes we decided to give this a shot. Now we would like some input. Let us know if this fix is underpowered, overpowered, tweaks, outright holes in the build...etc.



The Soulknife
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special
1st|0|0|2|2|Equipped Mind, Weapon Focus (mind blade), Awakened Soul
2nd|1 |0|3|3|Mind Equipment Enhancement (+1), Throw mind blade
3rd|2|1|3|3|Psychic strike +1d8, Mental Alacrity
4th|3|1|4|4|Mind Equipment Enhancement (+2), Reactive Mind, Bonus Feat
5th|3|1|4|4|Free Draw, Shape Mind Blade, Improved Defensive Equipment
6th|4|2|5|5|Mind Equipment Enhancement (+3), Psychic Strike +2d8, Stand Fast
7th|5|2|5|5|Mind of Steel (DR), Ablative Field
8th|6/1|2|6|6|Mind Equipment Enhancement (+4), Bonus Feat
9th|6/1|3|6|6|Bladewind, Greater Weapon Focus (Mind Blade), Psychic Strike +3d8
10th|7/2|3|7|7|Mind Equipment Enhancement (+5), Advanced Defensive Equipment
11th|8/3|3|7|7|Mind of Steel (alignment),
12th|9/4|4|8|8|Mind Equipment Enhancement (+6), Bonus Feat, Psychic Strike +4d8
13th|9/4|4|8|8|Knife to the Soul
14th|10/5|4|9|9|Mind Equipment Enhancement (+7)
15th|11/6/1|5|9|9|Psychic Strike +5d8, Mind of Steel (Regeneration)
16th|12/7/2|5|10|10|Mind Equipment Enhancement (+8), Bonus Feat
17th|12/7/2|5|10|10|
18th|13/8/3|6|11|11|Mind Equipment Enhancement (+9), Psychic Strike +6d8
19th|14/9/4|6|11|11|
20th|15/10/5|6|12|12|Mind Equipment Enhancement (+10), Bonus Feat[/table]
Hit Dice d10
Class Skills (4 + Int modifier per level, ×4 at 1st level)
Autohypnosis (Wis), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (psionics) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive, Spot (Wis), Tumble (Dex).


Class Features
All the following are class features of the soulknife.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Soulknives are proficient with all simple weapons, with their own mind blades, and with light armor and shields (except tower shields).
Equipped Mind (Su): As long as the soulknife has one power point in his reserve he may, as a move action, create a semisolid blade or suit of armor composed of psychic energy distilled from his own mind. The blade is identical in all ways (except visually) to a short sword of a size appropriate for its wielder. For instance, a Medium soulknife materializes a Medium mind blade that he can wield as a light weapon, and the blade deals 1d6 points of damage (crit 19–20/×2). Soulknives who are smaller or larger than Medium create mind blades identical to short swords appropriate for their size, with a corresponding change to the blade’s damage. The wielder of a mind blade gains the usual benefits to his attack roll and damage roll from a high Strength bonus. The armor confers a +4 armor bonus to AC. If you take the Inertial Armor feat it will confer an additional +1 bonus and the protection from ethereal attacks.
If the soulknife expends one power point (without emptying their reserve) they may create a semisolid disk which functions as a light shield, granting a +1 shield bonus to their AC.
A soulknife may manifest his blade, armor, and shield (if power points are available) in one move action by expending their psionic focus and making an autohypnosis check DC 15.
The Equipment can be broken (it has hardness 10 and 10 hit points); however, a soulknife can simply create them again on his next move action. The moment he relinquishes his grip on his blade or shield, it dissipates (unless he intends to throw it; see below).
Equipment created in this way are considered the appropriate type (ex. Armor, weapon, or shield) for the purposes of all applicable feats, powers, spells, and abilities.
A soulknife’s mind equipment improves as the character gains higher levels. See mind equipment enhancements below.
Even in places where psionic effects do not normally function (such as within a null psionics field), a soulknife can attempt to sustain his mind equipment by making a DC 20 Will save. On a successful save, the soulknife maintains his mind equipment for a number of rounds equal to his class level before he needs to check again. On an unsuccessful attempt, the mind blade vanishes. As a move action on his turn, the soulknife can attempt a new Will save to rematerialize his mind equipment while he remains within the psionics negating effect.
Weapon Focus (Mind Blade): A soulknife gains Weapon Focus (mind blade) as a bonus feat.
Awakened Soul (Su): Your soul has awakened the dormant portion of your mind conferring upon you the designation of a psionic character. The soulknife gains one power point per class level, plus points gained by having a high Wisdom score. If you have or take a class that grants power points, the power points gained from awakened soul are added to your total power point reserve. The Soulknife has a manifester level equal to his Soulknife level, and Wisdom is the manifesting ability. When using a soulknife ability that requires expenditure of power points he may spend up to a maximum of his manifester level in power points on that ability. (1)
Throw Mind Blade (Ex): A soul knife of 2nd level or higher can throw a light one-handed mind blade as a ranged weapon with a range increment of 30 feet. A soulknife can throw a number of mind blades per round equal to the number of melee attacks he could make. The soulknife can empower the throw mind blade ability to hit additional targets by spending expending their psionic focus as well as paying 3 power points per additional target. An attack roll must be made to hit each additional target, if attack roll fails to hit no further targets are attacked with this use of throw mind blade though points for the additional targets are still spent. A target of this ability can only be hit once per use of this power.
Whether or not the attack hits, a thrown mind blade then dissipates. A soulknife of 3rd level or higher can make a psychic strike (see below) with a thrown mind blade and can use the blade in conjunction with other special abilities (such as Knife to the Soul; see below).
Mind Equipment Enhancement (Su): A soulknife at, 3rd level, gains the ability to enhance his mind equipment as he progresses in level. The total effective bonus of each of the Mind equipment is equal to 1/2 Soulknife level. In addition, the Mind Equipment can have any property applied to it, so long as it is still a legal property for the equipment type in question. Mind Equipment must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus before any properties can be assigned. A mind blade is now considered a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Psychic Strike (Su): As a move action, a soulknife of 3rd level or higher can imbue his mind blade with destructive psychic energy. This effect deals an extra 1d8 points of damage to the next living, non-mindless target he successfully hits with a melee attack (or ranged attack, if he is using the throw mind blade ability). Creatures immune to mind-affecting effects are immune to psychic strike damage. (Unlike the rogue’s sneak attack, the psychic strike is not precision damage and can affect creatures otherwise immune to extra damage from critical hits or more than 30 feet away, provided they are living, non-mindless creatures not immune to mind-affecting effects.)
A mind blade deals this extra damage only once when this ability is called upon, but a soulknife can imbue his mind blade with psychic energy again by taking another move action.
Once a soulknife has prepared his blade for a psychic strike, it holds the extra energy until it is used. Even if the soulknife drops the mind blade (or it otherwise dissipates, such as when it is thrown and misses), it is still imbued with psychic energy when the soulknife next materializes it.
At every four levels beyond 3rd (7th, 11th, 15th, and 19th), the extra damage from a soulknife’s psychic strike increases as shown on the Table above.
Mental Alacrity: At 3rd level, a soulknife may, when wielding a mind blade in the form of a light weapon, rapier, whip, or spiked chain made for a creature of his size category, use his Dexterity modifier instead of his Strength modifier on attack and damage rolls. If he carries a shield, its armor check penalty applies to his attack rolls.
Reactive Mind (Su): At 4th level, a Soulknife’s perception is more attuned than others and is able to react more quickly. While psionically focused, he receives an insight bonus equal to 1/4 his Soulknife level on Initiative checks. He also gains the benefit of Uncanny Dodge while focused.
Bonus Feat: Bonus Fighter or Psionic Feat at 4th level and every 4 levels thereafter. In addition, a Soulknife qualifies for feats as a Fighter, but only if applying those feats to his Mind Blade.
Free Draw (Su): At 5th level, a soulknife becomes able to materialize his mind blade as a free action instead of a move action. He can make only one attempt to materialize the mind blade per round, however.
Shape Mind Blade (Su): At 5th level, a soulknife gains the ability to change the form of his mind blade. As a full round action, he can change his mind blade to into any simple melee weapon or any martial melee weapon the Soulknife is proficient with without having to have points in reserve. Alternatively, if the soulknife maintains five points in reserve, he may shape it into any martial melee weapon or any exotic melee weapon they have proficiency with. Furthermore, with ten points in reserve the mind blade may be shaped into any exotic melee weapon. If formed as light weapons, it can be split into two of the same weapon. If a soulknife shapes his mind blade into the form of a two-handed weapon he adds 1-1/2 times his Strength bonus to his damage rolls.
However, if the mind blade is split into two mind blades both mind blades have an enhancement bonus 1 lower than the soulknife would otherwise create with a single mind blade.
Improved Defensive Equipment: At 5th level, a soulknife can focus his armor and shield into more concentrated versions of themselves. This increases the armor bonus to a +6 (or +7 with the inertial armor feat) and the shield bonus to a +2.
Stand Fast (Ex): Beginning at 6th level, a soulknife gains a +2 dodge bonus to his AC during any round in which he moves no more than 5 feet. This bonus only applies as long as the soulknife is psionically focused.
Mind of Steel (Su): At 7th level, a Soulknife has learned how to mimic substances with his Mind Blade. By spending one power point his Mind Blade is treated as the material of his choice for overcoming Damage Reduction, but not for any other purpose. He can change the emulated material when he reassigns his Mind Blade Enhancement. In addition, at 11th level, the Mind Blade may overcome alignment based damage reduction by spending 2 additional power points (a total of three power points are spent even if the material of the mind blade has not changed). At 15th level, his Mind Blade is capable of dealing lethal damage to creatures with regeneration at the cost of 5 additional power points (bringing the total required cost to eight power points even if the material and alignment have not changed).
Ablative Field (Su): At 7th level, as an immediate action in response to taking damage, a soulknife may create a field that reduces damage taken equal to the amount of power points spent for this ability. (1)
Bladewind (Su): At 9th level, a soulknife gains the ability to momentarily fragment his mind blade into numerous identical blades, each of which strikes at a nearby opponent.
As a full attack, when wielding his mind blade, a soulknife can give up his regular attacks and instead fragment his mind blade to make one melee attack at his full base attack bonus against each opponent within reach. Each fragment functions identically to the soulknife’s regular mind blade.
When using bladewind, a soulknife forfeits any bonus or extra attacks granted by other feats or abilities (such as the Cleave feat or the haste spell).
The mind blade immediately reverts to its previous form after the bladewind attack.
Greater Weapon Focus (Mind Blade): A soulknife gains Greater Weapon Focus (mind blade) as a bonus feat at 9th level.
Advanced Defensive Equipment: At 10th level, a soulknife can focus his armor and shield into more concentrated versions of themselves. This increases the armor bonus to a +8 (or +9 with the inertial armor feat) and the shield bonus to a +4.
Knife to the Soul (Su): Beginning at 13th level, when a soulknife executes a psychic strike, he can choose to substitute Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma damage (his choice) for extra dice of damage. For each die of extra damage he gives up, he deals 1 point of damage to the ability score he chooses. The target of Knife to the Soul makes a will save vs (DC 10 + ½ soulknife level + Wis mod), if target saves then no damage from Knife to the Soul is taken. A soulknife can combine extra dice of damage and ability damage in any combination.
The soulknife decides which ability score his psychic strike damages and the division of ability damage and extra dice of damage when he imbues his mind blade with the psychic strike energy.



After reading some of the posts on some other soul knife fixes, I was thinking about bumping the BAB to the fighters and adding in these.

Mind Over Matter: At 5th, a soulknife can expend their psionic focus in order to deal half psychic strike damage to a living or non-mindless creature.
Strength of Mind: A 10th level soulknife is capable bringing of the full might of his will to bear upon any opponent. If the soulknife expends his psionic focus and pays 1 power point per die of Psychic Strike damage, a non-living or mindless creature or both, take normal Psychic Strike damage and a living non-mindless target takes an additional point of damage per power point spent on Strength of Mind when hit with a Psychic Strike.


I want to acknowledge the other builds we looked at as references. Here are the links to the posts/sites where we found them:

http://www.myth-weavers.com/wiki/index.php/Soulknife_Fix%283.5_Class%29

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Soul_Knight_%283.5e_Prestige_Class%29 (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Soul_Knight_%283.5e_Prestige_Class%29)

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199960

(1) Thanks to Noctis Vigil for the suggestion.

Noctis Vigil
2011-11-08, 12:46 AM
The big thing I notice is that Ablative Field needs a duration and a maximum number of power points spendable on it. Also, I'd give them two power points per level, but that's just me. :smallsmile:

jiriku
2011-11-08, 03:27 AM
Overall, the class works better than the original, but lacks options. Worst of all, its improvements slow down after 10th level, just as most of the powerful classes in the game are starting to grow at an ever-accelerating rate. Obviously, I'm going to be partial to my own soulknife fix, but since you're going in a different direction I'll try to offer neutral suggestions rather than just plugging my own work. :smallbiggrin:

Free draw and shape mind blade are unnecessarily delayed. Free draw is like a weak Quickdraw feat (which is a crappy 1st-level feat), and shape mind blade is like, well, cheap nonmagical gear. Free draw should reasonably be available no later than 3rd level, while shape mindblade should be a 1st-level ability. Also, the restriction to one free draw per round is unnecessary - repeatedly drawing a weapon is not going to break this class, and could lead to some nice thrower builds if allowed.

The three power bumps that you're considering, down at the bottom of the OP, would all be good ideas.

Zagaroth
2011-11-08, 05:09 AM
Well, the big thing that stands out to me very quickly is that you have a front line melee class, that does not have +1 BAB.

Just to be clear, the Mind Equipment ability, is that for each piece of equipment, you have that much to spend in bonus & abilities? or is that bonus splint amongst all three?

Solamain
2011-11-08, 10:00 AM
I would, for clarity, change



Mind Equipment Enhancement (Su): A soulknife at, 3rd level, gains the ability to enhance his mind equipment as he progresses in level. The total effective bonus of the Mind equipment is equal to 1/2 Soulknife level. In addition, the Mind Equipment can have any property applied to it, so long as it is still a legal property for the equipment type in question. Mind Equipment must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus before any properties can be assigned. A mind blade is now considered a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

to

Mind Equipment Enhancement (Su): A soulknife at, 3rd level, gains the ability to enhance his mind equipment as he progresses in level. The total effective bonus of each of the Mind equipment is equal to 1/2 Soulknife level. In addition, the Mind Equipment can have any property applied to it, so long as it is still a legal property for the equipment type in question. Mind Equipment must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus before any properties can be assigned. A mind blade is now considered a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

Deviston
2011-11-08, 10:16 AM
Equipped Mind: It SEEMS to say that you would need 3 power points in reserve to create the three items but doesn’t state it directly enough. I’m seeing words like “or” and in reference to the points seeing the “s”. If it was intended to be 1 point per equipment or 1 point for all, make it a little more clear.

Mind Equipment Enhancement: Does this bonus apply to all THREE?! Or are the (up to) 10 points to be divided amongst the three items at your choosing. I would assume the latter because the former would just be absurdly, disgustingly, crudely imbalanced for 3.5. That being said you should use the rules from soulmelds and have investing or changing around the points be a swift action doable once per round. And additional feat that treats your class level for the purpose of these points as 4 higher wouldn’t be a bad idea. This could not bring one item above unmodified class limit however just give you those extra two +1’s to toss around or what have you.

Ablative Field: I would make sure to add that you must select the amount of power points invested BEFORE knowing the result of the damage dealt. Similar effects exist and function this way.

Bladewind: Within reach? Reach of your glaive you have formed? Your 15 foot spike chain? Your dagger? Clarification please. Mostly looking at things like the whip or spiked chain, well I guess anything with reach.

Slightly overbalanced for 3.5, if this was Pathfinder I’d say you’re either dead on or maybe increase BAB to full. But as is… tone it down a bit.

Deviston
2011-11-08, 12:17 PM
Edit: Oops, repost. My bad.

jiriku
2011-11-08, 01:23 PM
Mind Equipment Enhancement: Does this bonus apply to all THREE?! Or are the (up to) 10 points to be divided amongst the three items at your choosing. I would assume the latter because the former would just be absurdly, disgustingly, crudely imbalanced for 3.5. That being said you should use the rules from soulmelds and have investing or changing around the points be a swift action doable once per round. And additional feat that treats your class level for the purpose of these points as 4 higher wouldn’t be a bad idea. This could not bring one item above unmodified class limit however just give you those extra two +1’s to toss around or what have you.

Slightly overbalanced for 3.5, if this was Pathfinder I’d say you’re either dead on or maybe increase BAB to full. But as is… tone it down a bit.

My reading was that it was that the 10 points were to be divided out amongst the three items. But it it is a tad vaguely worded. However, I'd disagree that having a +10-equivalent weapon, armor, and shield by 20th level is in any way overpowered. EVERY character can have such items by 20th level if they wish, and the benefits gained from such equipment can even be duplicated for free by 3rd- and 4th-level spells, for those who cast spells. There are at least a dozen published classes that can perform as well or better.

Deviston
2011-11-08, 03:22 PM
My reading was that it was that the 10 points were to be divided out amongst the three items. But it it is a tad vaguely worded. However, I'd disagree that having a +10-equivalent weapon, armor, and shield by 20th level is in any way overpowered. EVERY character can have such items by 20th level if they wish, and the benefits gained from such equipment can even be duplicated for free by 3rd- and 4th-level spells, for those who cast spells. There are at least a dozen published classes that can perform as well or better.

If you can show me any SINGLE class that gives you +10 equivalent enhancement bonus to THREE combat related items completely for free with zero investment I will accede your point.

I agree that every character has these by lvl 20, but their existence is mitigated by the fact that they count against ones maximum allotted monetary value (usually 200,000 by DMG 3.5 if I remember correctly). And once again, there is a trade off for those 3rd and 4th level spells. Someone has to expend slots to give it to you, someone ELSE has to give up some of their combat effectiveness. Not to mention that those spells have a duration, can be dispelled easily requiring recast i.e. more slots expended. The items that have them cast on can be destroyed never to return whereas "soul items" can just be poofed right back at full potential as a free action (or what have you). Other such items can be stolen, lost, or so forth. Mindblade/armor/shield, not so much.

Also, while every character may have these items at 20th level, they sacrifice utility items because of cost. They had to PAY for the three +10 items whereas Mr. New Soulknife got it all for free as a part of his class, so it doesn't count against his monetary limit. He has 200,000 to spend and utility items AND has his 3 +10's. I said that earlier, just wanted to reword it.

tldr; prove it.

Edit: Disregard this post if it's 10 points to be divided rather than 10 for each item :p

Noctis Vigil
2011-11-08, 04:21 PM
I thought you had to spend power points to manifest the armor and shield, so those aren't "free". Did I misread that? :smallconfused:

Abstractone13
2011-11-08, 08:00 PM
Equipped Mind: It SEEMS to say that you would need 3 power points in reserve to create the three items but doesn’t state it directly enough. I’m seeing words like “or” and in reference to the points seeing the “s”. If it was intended to be 1 point per equipment or 1 point for all, make it a little more clear.

Mind Equipment Enhancement: Does this bonus apply to all THREE?! Or are the (up to) 10 points to be divided amongst the three items at your choosing. I would assume the latter because the former would just be absurdly, disgustingly, crudely imbalanced for 3.5. That being said you should use the rules from soulmelds and have investing or changing around the points be a swift action doable once per round. And additional feat that treats your class level for the purpose of these points as 4 higher wouldn’t be a bad idea. This could not bring one item above unmodified class limit however just give you those extra two +1’s to toss around or what have you.

Ablative Field: I would make sure to add that you must select the amount of power points invested BEFORE knowing the result of the damage dealt. Similar effects exist and function this way.

Bladewind: Within reach? Reach of your glaive you have formed? Your 15 foot spike chain? Your dagger? Clarification please. Mostly looking at things like the whip or spiked chain, well I guess anything with reach.

Slightly overbalanced for 3.5, if this was Pathfinder I’d say you’re either dead on or maybe increase BAB to full. But as is… tone it down a bit.

As for Equiped Mind: the PP in reserve it is 1 PP in total in reserve to create
both the armor and weapon. Then in order to create the shield you would need to spend a PP. However, if spending this PP would bring your PP to 0 then all created items (weapon, armor, and shield) would dissipate until you gain at least one PP. Until you get to shape mindblade when you are capable of creating simple weapons, your armor and shield (after paying 1 PP for your shield) and maintain them without having any PP in reserve.

The enhancement bonus points would apply to all three. We checked it against a few PHB classes to see how it would scale. Also having a Soulknife in the group would allow more equipment dependent classes easier access to magic equipment gained through treasure/adventuring, by having one less class that says give me when said equipment shows up. So your fighter,pally, etc... would be able to gain more magic gear, while equipment not readily useful or that would be sold would be dispersed into party treasure and the Soulknife would not have access to more funds than any other party member.

Ablative Field was based on the Elan racial ability, Resilience(Su), it doesn't require selecting power points invested before knowing the result. The racial ability is 1 PP/2 hit point damage reduced. So it's a nerfed version of that. An Elan Soulknife would be able to use the racial ability in place of the Ablative Field or an Elan Fighter would still have a more powerful version than a non-Elan Soulknife would have access to.

As for being within melee range for Bladewind, if you have spiked chain as the weapon then yes everything in melee range of that weapon. If you started the fight with a short sword then you have a short sword and can only hit enemies within a 5ft range. Then if you take a full round action to focus and have the prerequisites for creating an exotic weapon (refer to Shape Mind Blade ability) then on changing the weapon to a spiked chain and using Bladewind, a Soulknife would be able to hit all opponents within 10ft. this is similar to how whirlwind attack would work.




One thing you could do: give them more than the PP they get from Wild Talent -- probably just 1 per class level. Then allow Knife to the Soul to grant you PP instead of HP, which you would use to manifest Hustle, Fission, etc (as free powers known instead of at-will psi-like abilities). It would be a neat dynamic, having to charge up your uses instead of watching them count down, but I can definitely understand it being just too much work for a class with so much going on already. That would also be a more ideal solution for Fission than Hustle.

@jiriku I took a look at your soulknife fix the Soulcrafter it's cool. A bit more green lantern (being able to create non-equipment items) than I was going for. Great options for RP but I know the both myself and my friends would abuse it (not necesarally combat wise - would have to play test before I could tell you) to the point of the DM (me probably) wanting to kill us/them for causing a permanent hand imprint on their face due to repeated pacepalms. I was trying not to take it too far from what was originally written. In a high powered camp I would definitely enjoy giving it a test. One thing I did read in the Soulcrafter comments is that Pechvarry mentioned in one of his posts is allowing the you to gain back power points when using Knife to the Soul. Probably to the tune of 2 PP per 1 point of ability damage. Also your edit that it cannot affect a target more than once per round was a good point and will definitely put that in.

Deviston
2011-11-08, 09:47 PM
The enhancement bonus points would apply to all three.

In my opinion this is imbalanced as all get out. This is Pathfinder level work that SHOULD NOT be in 3.5 IMO. I hope everything works out ferya.

Kirk out.

Abstractone13
2011-11-09, 12:03 AM
In my opinion this is imbalanced as all get out. This is Pathfinder level work that SHOULD NOT be in 3.5 IMO.

Just to make sure that we are on the same page. The reason that you are saying that this class is unbalanced is due to the equipment having the full enhancement being available to all 3 items (weapon, armor, and shield) as opposed to being split between them? Then at 20th level you would have a Soulknife that would have an +4 weapon, +3 shield, and +3 armor, this would be without any other weapon or armor/shield properties. Would that not in fact take this class off the front line as it would no longer be able to have the AC capable of withstanding front line conditions?

I'm just trying to understand the reason why your saying it's unbalanced and given those reasons what you would suggest to fix it. I intend this build to be up in front with a Fighter or Paladin.

according to the DMG:

760,000gp for a 20th level character

115,000gp for +5 Adamantine Fullplate with heavy fortification.
101,020gp for +5 Mithril Heavy Steel Shield with reflection
203,035gp for +5 Adamantine Bastard Sword with flaming burst, holy, and keen

a total of 419,055g

this still leaves the 20th level fighter 340,945g to spend on other items

Deviston
2011-11-09, 11:23 AM
Welcome to reality. I've been playing 3.5 wrong for eleven years now, since the beginning... I looked at the far right collumn on page 52 of the DMG and thought that was your expected cap.... My entire reality has been flipped on its end.... I.... gentlemen. I no longer have a leg to stand on. Continue your discussion and disregard my statements. I need to rethink my life.

jiriku
2011-11-09, 12:30 PM
tldr; prove it.

Fair enough. This is the internet; skepticism is warranted. :smallbiggrin:

Given,

That the soulknife does NOT gain these items "for free". Half his class features are tied up in that gear, and he pays an opportunity cost of not receiving the psionic powers that other psionic classes get.
That while no class gains exactly the same thing, some are similar and of comparable strength. For example, a soulknife's weapon can't be dispelled, but an ice axe or a natural weapon can't be sundered.
I would offer,

Cleric casts greater magic weapon and magic vestment x2 on his gear, gaining a +5 weapon, armor, and shield. Cleric further casts death ward, freedom of movement, and resist energy (fire) 30 on himself. Duplicating these properties through armor and shield enchantments would easily cost the remainder of what's spent on armor/shield. Cleric further casts disrupting weapon, flame of faith, and checkmate's light on his weapon, and readies a few additional copies of these spells for backup use (he can always convert them into healing if they aren't needed). Result: cleric has better protection and offense than the soulknife, while expending perhaps 20% of his daily resources.
As above, but assuming a cleric with a DMM: Persist build persists ice axe, instead of enhancing a physical weapon. The cleric gains a weapon that deals 2d12+10/x3, uses a touch attack to hit, and cannot be disarmed or sundered.
As 2., above, but assume an archivist rather than a cleric. Archivist learns holy sword from the paladin list and persists it using a persist-enhancing combo (ocular, chain-reach, etc). Weapon is now a +5 holy sword that continually emits magic circle against evil.
For an arcane gish with abjurant champion, greater luminous armor + repelling shield offers bonuses easily worth two +10-equivalents, extended and quickened for free. He casts greater magic weapon and keen edge on his bow, and flame arrow on his arrows. A few uses of nerveskitter, wraithstrike, and critical strike round out his repertoire. Again, only about 20% of his daily resources have been expended.
A wizard prepares several castings of polymorph, assuming the form of a creature with many natural weapons, high natural armor, excellent Strength and Dexterity, and perhaps a broad swath of immunities from his new creature type. The benefit easily equals what can be gained with weapon, armor, and shield.
A druid wild-shapes into a fire elemental and casts bite of the werebear/tiger/boar/whatever on himself. Benefits include several natural weapons with excellent base damage, high natural armor, immunity to cold, bonus feats, high Strength and Dexterity, and bonuses granted on top of those high stats.

Now, are these benefits exactly the same as what the soulknife gets? No. But do they offer a roughly comparable amount of offensive and defensive punch? I'd say yes. They're also available sooner and represent a smaller investment of total class resources. Thus I say, there are many classes that can perform as well or better. Now, that doesn't mean this soul knife fix is weak, since classes like the Big Three are rightly considered overpowered, but it does mean it's nowhere near broken territory.

Deviston
2011-11-09, 11:26 PM
Welcome to reality. I've been playing 3.5 wrong for eleven years now, since the beginning... I looked at the far right collumn on page 52 of the DMG and thought that was your expected cap.... My entire reality has been flipped on its end.... I.... gentlemen. I no longer have a leg to stand on. Continue your discussion and disregard my statements. I need to rethink my life.

Dude, I totally rescind everything I said about your class... I've been playing DnD on a 200k lvl 20 gold cap for 11 years apparently... My view of balance EDIT: in regards to things monetarily related can't even really be considered anymore... I've always wondered why our "appropriate level" combat encounters always left us at the brink of death.... I just always thought DnD was supposed to be that hard...

Solamain
2011-11-10, 05:31 AM
Dude, I totally rescind everything I said about your class... I've been playing DnD on a 200k lvl 20 gold cap for 11 years apparently... My view of balance EDIT: in regards to things monetarily related can't even really be considered anymore... I've always wondered why our "appropriate level" combat encounters always left us at the brink of death.... I just always thought DnD was supposed to be that hard...

The table which should be used to balance out a characters wealth, including accumulated magic items, is found on page 135 (bottom left) of the 3.5 DMG. The table presented on page 54 (bottom right) has caused much confusion over the years since the book was published, since it is not clearly stated that the values listed on that table is the expected amount they should gain throughout that level.

The chart on page 135, on the other-hand, represents the accumulated wealth including magic items, minus expected expenses as explained in the paragraph next to the chart on page 54. Though the "Behind The Curtain: Treasure Values" paragraph on page 54 does refer to table 5-1 (which is the table on page 135), since the table right next to it does not have a number it this has lead some to believe that that table is in fact the 5-1 being refered to, thus increasing the confusion.

As far as this class being able to create 3 separate items each with a +10 enhancement total, I personally feel this is fine for the following reasons:

They will not have items of that power untill 20th level, where other characters will get their first +10 items at about 15-16th level.
The weapon and shield created by the Soulknife have only a 10 hardness and 10 HP, thus making them easy to sunder.
With many of this clases abilities requireing powerpoints, which are not abundent for this class, the equiptment made by this class requires you to hold one or more points in reserve or the equiptment vanishes.

Abstractone13
2011-11-12, 12:10 AM
First off, thank you all for your help in filling out the Soulknife. I'm gonna be bringing it to the table to give it a few play tests to check scaling with other classes and situations. This is my first rebuild and I was nervous throwing it up here for scrutiny by people who are more experienced than I am. I'll Post a comment after I run it through a few hurdles. Thank you so much for your help.

@ Deviston I've been playing for about 9 years. I've been DM off and on. I run with a few different groups. Every time I DM there is always something that pops up that I thought I had well and thoroughly understood. Then I get hit by a fun session of rule lawyering and get shot down like it was my first day. It's usually because of some incongruity between 3.0 and 3.5 that I picked up somewhere in a game I was in or was apparently a house rule that was presented as a book rule. On a completely different track I took a look at some of your builds. I'd love to throw the Daelkyr Broodlord at some of the players I run with. Some great RP options with the Perfected Maranatha.