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super dark33
2011-11-11, 04:43 PM
Well i think dark magic isnt only undead and negetive levels.
Dark magic can be a little more... dark.

What i mean is, i need your help, to make my spell ideas real spells, with approprite level and stats.

Slashing bolts: this spell sends small blades of force to slace the enemy in vital organs.
it comes in three levels, each uses a diffrent spell slot:
Muscles:Slows movement and reduces strength
High nerve concetrations:Does damage per level
Blood vessals: Save or drop to -1, then save or suffer 1d6-victim con bonus/penalty.

Acidic stomech: your stomech betrays you, it produces acid. Save and acid damage or die.

Low pressure sphere: surrounds target with vaccum. save or die if 10+ hit die. if less, no save death.
The black flame spell series, all aginst one opponet. area of effect versions use the con damage of one level below of them. for instence:Black flame bolt Explosion (use fireball) deals 1d4 con damage.
Black flame strike: deals 1d4 con damage.
Black flame bolt: Deals 1d6 con damage.
Black flame blast: Deals 2d4 con damage.
Black flame wave: deals 1d10 con damage.
Black flame Surge: deals 3d4 con damage. (yeah, i took the names entirely from runescape)

Evil fireball: like fireball, only damages one victim. victims need to make a will save, to spot its just an illusion. if they fail, a ref save or take damage (nonreal damage). one of the victims suffers normal damage, as if he failed the ref save, no matter if he did save. this is more a DM spell, to use aginst players as one of them wont even notice he is mortally harmed untill the next minion blow.

Dark suggestion: no restrains on what to suggest. can request from a cup of tea to go and mass murder.

Internal Electricity: electricity damage. fort save or stunned.

I also want to start a great list of medical conditions, and how they work in DnD.

Lord Vukodlak
2011-11-11, 08:28 PM
I have a spell inspire hate that causes everyone caught in the area to percieve everyone else as hostile for the duration of the spell.

Your spells sound dark, but it can be hard to just take an idea an set up a level. But I'll see what I can do.

Realms of Chaos
2011-11-11, 10:25 PM
As far as dark spells... BoVD probably has tons of what your looking for in the form of Vile and Evil spells but I can come up with a few more ideas.

-A spell that causes a target to be wracked with physical pain whenever they come into physical contact with a creature other than the caster.
-A spell that binds part of a creature's soul to a specific area like how a Dryad is tied to her tree (useful for keeping damsels in their towers).
-A spell requiring the corpse of a creature as a material component, making information about that creature more scarce (Knowledge checks to learn about them have their DCs increased by +10) and thus hastening the rate that he is forgotten. Stops working if creature is brought back to life.
-Conversely, a spell using a corpse as a focus, making any who view the corpse within 1 day/level unable to forget it.
-A warped resurrection that purposefully puts the soul of a demon into the target's body (as demonic possession).
-A spell that permanently salts a smallish area of land, killing all plantlife within it.
-A death effect with a delay of 24 hours that can't be avoided after the initial fortitude save has failed.
-All creatures within a large area take a penalty to charisma-based checks and a bonus to damage rolls (enough to start fights in a community and ensure they are lethal).
-A curse (as bestow curse) that passes down through a family line.
-A contingent death effect where the target is made aware of the circumstances that will result in their deaths.


No time to write up the actual spells at the moment but you can get the idea.

From your initial list, though, it looks as though you are only going for more visceral forms of "evil" such as one might see in a magical version of the Saw movie franchise. Simply coming up with new and interesting ways to keep people, however, doesn't seem evil or dark on its own. How is making someone's stomach acid stronger any "darker" than making their entire body implode (via implosion), for example?

For medical conditions, I'm not quite sure what you're after. Are you looking for diseases? genetic disorders? medical descriptions of very specific injuries?

Yitzi
2011-11-12, 11:53 PM
For a campaign I'm writing, I came up with what's meant to be an extremely "dark" casting class; you might enjoy some of the following ideas of spells I made up for them. Note that this was not meant to be balanced:

Taint Water (this isn't meant so much an offensive spell as something that can be made a natural side effect of particularly evil casting):
Level 1, Standard action, medium range, instantaneous. Affects 10 cubic feet of water. Such water is corrupted (as the black dragon ability); it is, however, able to support plants and plant creatures as well as any creatures with an INT score of 3 or higher and the ability to change alignment (or with a chaotic evil alignment). Whenever such a creature, who is not already chaotic evil, consumes such water, or plants or creatures that have been supported by such water, they must make a Will save (DC 11, +1 for each previous time they have made such a save in the past year) or turn chaotic evil. Evil creatures get a +10 bonus on the save. The water also acts as unholy water.

Any druid within 10 feet of tainted water must make a Fortitude save (DC 5+druid level) or be nauseated until they leave that range (from any tainted water) and for 1d10 minutes afterward. If they make the save and stay in the area, they must make a save once per minute until they leave or fail the save.

If this spell is cast on holy water, it turns into normal water and nothing else happens to it.

Tainted water is extremely difficult to cleanse. If the corpse of an affected creature decays outside of a Hallow or Consecrate effect, it releases tainted water. If it decays inside such an effect or is burned, the taint is destroyed. Tainted water itself can be cleansed by diluting it by a factor of at least 20 in a holy water font suitable for the Scrying spell, or by a factor of at least 100 in a natural pool suitable for the Scrying spell, and then leaving it there for 24 hours (it is cleansed after the 24 hours).

-True Dominate: Level 9, 1 minute casting time. As Enslave epic ritual spell, but uses an illusion (glamer) to hide the verbal and somatic components of the casting. Only affects humanoids. Can be dispelled with Dispel Evil and a successful opposed caster level check (but not with dispel magic). Does not gain an epic spellís resistance to antimagic or disjunction. (Because if you're going to be dominating people for political rather than combat goals, it's a good idea to hide the fact.)

Greater Acid Arrow (level 5):
Like acid arrow, but lasts 1 round/level (maximum of 20th). For every 20 damage done (not counting whatís reduced by resistance/protection), there is an additional effect determined by a d%:
1-40: Take 1d6 STR damage and 1d6 DEX damage. Fort save half
41-50: Take 4 DEX damage and a -2 penalty on all attack rolls and STR-based or DEX-based checks (stacks). Fort save halves both effects. This damage does not heal naturally, but can be healed magically as ability damage (rather than drain); every 2 points of DEX damage healed reduces the penalty by 1.
51-65: Take 1d4 INT, WIS, and CHA damage. Fort save half. This damage heals at half the normal rate.
66-95: Take 1d4 CON damage. Fort save half
96-100: Death. Fort save to take 1d6 CON damage instead.

That one isn't really all that evil, but it's definitely nasty, and serves as a base for the next one:

Dark Arrow (level 8)
As Greater Acid Arrow, but counts as a necromancy spell. It does 1d6 negative energy damage as well as 2d4 acid on hit and each round. The target is entitled to SR; if the SR is successful, or if the target is protected by Death Ward, this acts as Greater Acid Arrow. Also, rather than rolling a die for every 20 damage taken, the caster may choose conditions (requiring clarity as the contingency spell does; they can only be based on observable facts and statistics (such as hit dice, ability scores, hit points, etc.) about the target) for the following effects. He may change these conditions as a move action.
1. Take 1d6 STR damage and 1d6 DEX damage. Fort save half. If this reduces the targetís STR score or DEX score to 0, they do not become helpless; rather, the caster can control their movements (no save, no SR, no PfE): He can force them to do any action that does not rely on mental ability scores, or make any STR-based or DEX-based check or use any extraordinary special attack, using his own BAB, feats, and skill ranks but the targetís physical ability scores (not counting any STR and DEX damage and attack/check penalties from this spell), and no class abilities. He can also force them to move, talk, etc., although he does not know anything they knew and must use his own check modifiers (including for the Bluff skill) if necessary. The control lasts (even if the ability score heals) until a Restoration or Greater Restoration spell is used to heal the targetís ability scores or the effect is removed by a successful Dispel Evil.
2. Take 4 DEX damage and a -2 penalty on all attack rolls and STR-based or DEX-based checks (stacks). Fort save halves both effects. This damage does not heal naturally, but can be healed magically as ability damage (rather than drain); every 2 points of DEX damage healed reduces the penalty by 1. If this reduces their DEX to 0, the caster gains control of the targetís movements, as above.
3. Take 1d4 INT, WIS, and CHA damage. This damage heals at half the normal rate. If this brings any of these scores to 0, the caster gains control of the target as though through a Dominate Person spell, but no save or SR is allowed (then or in the future) and PfE is ineffective, and there are no limitations on the actions the target can be forced to take. The control lasts (even if the ability score heals) until a Restoration or Greater Restoration spell is used to heal the targetís ability scores or the effect is removed by a successful Dispel Evil.
4. Gain 1d4 negative levels (Fort save halves).
5. Take 1d4 CON damage (Fort save halves). There is a 20% chance this will instead produce death (Fort save reduces to 1d6 CON damage).

If the target dies from this spell, whether from damage, from negative levels, from CON damage, or from the death effect, it immediately rises as a chosen type of undead (under the casterís control) that the caster could (in light of their class level, but not considering spells known or prepared) create with another spell (animate dead, create undead, create greater undead, or epic spells if relevant.)

Ensnare:
Necromancy. Components: S, F. Casting time: 1 week/Hit die; see text. Range: 1 mile/level. Target: 1 creature. Duration: permanent. Saving throw: None or Will Negates; see text. Spell Resistance: No or Yes; see text

By weaving a special pattern out of exotic cloths, you can greatly enhance enchantment spells cast on a selected target. The pattern requires materials costing 1000gp per hit die of the target, and requires a craft check each week of DC 20 plus 1 per hit die of the target. (You may take 10 on this craft check). You must work on the pattern, for at least 4 hours a day, for 1 week per hit die of the target, casting this spell each day you do so, but otherwise are not restricted in your activities. If the target is out of range while you are working on the pattern, or you do not work on the pattern for some time, or you fail your craft check for a week, that period of time does not count toward the casting time, but does not ruin past progress. If you fail the craft check by 5 or more, you must pay half the material cost again.
Once the pattern is completed, you may use it to cast any ďCharmĒ or ďDominateĒ spell on the target with certain advantages. There is no limit on line of sight or range, or even a requirement that the target be on the same plane when the enchantment is cast. Furthermore, if the target is on the same plane, he is not entitled to a saving throw and does not gain the benefit of spell resistance, and the spell bypasses ďProtection from EvilĒ type effects and any relevant immunities. Finally, the enchantment is permanent so long as the pattern lasts, although if the pattern is destroyed the enchantment ends immediately.
Ensnare does not normally allow a saving throw or spell resistance, but if the target is protected by Protection from Evil (but not by other-alignment versions), he is entitled to both a saving throw and (if applicable) spell resistance. Even if he makes the saving throw, he is not aware that someone cast a spell on him.
Ensnare can be ended with a successful Dispel Evil spell on either the target or the pattern, a successful Dispel Magic spell on the pattern, or by physically destroying the pattern.
Focus: The pattern.

Another nasty one.

And last but not least (either in power or evil), ritual magic (meant to go along with the epic magic rules by Belial the Leveler here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37410)):
One or more dark mages, to a maximum of 100, can partake in a ritual to boost their power. The ritual takes one hour per caster. Each caster may contribute one spell slot; the ritual may cast any spell known by one of the casters, with any metamagic feats known by any of the casters. The sum of the squares of the spell slots contributed must be less than or equal to the square of the resulting effect. A spell or feat not known by one of the casters may be included at twice its normal cost (increase to SL or base SL). The effective caster level is equal to at least 1 less than twice the spell level.

Via sacrifice, the ritual may be further empowered. Each nonsentient creature sacrificed (up to a maximum of one per caster) counts as one spell slot of level equal to 1/10 the creatureís HD (rounded down). Each unwilling sentient creature sacrificed (to a maximum of 3 per caster) counts as a spell slot of level equal to 1/4 the creatures total HD (including levels) (rounded down), and allows that caster to spend a second spell slot. If one of the creatures sacrificed is the casterís parent or sibling or spouse or adult child, it counts as a spell slot of level equal to Ĺ the casterís class level (rounded up) and allows the caster to spend one additional spell slot per spell level. If one of the creatures sacrificed is the casterís below-adult child, it counts as a spell slot of level equal to twice the casterís class level (rounded up) and allows the caster to spend any number of spell slots.
Any ritual that involves sacrifice of sentient creatures counts as twice the normal caster level for purposes of side effects with Taint Water; other side effects use only the highest slot or slot-equivalent contributed whether the ritual involves sacrifice or not.

super dark33
2011-11-13, 09:49 AM
For medical conditions, I'm not quite sure what you're after. Are you looking for diseases? genetic disorders? medical descriptions of very specific injuries?

First, implosion is what i count as dark spell.

For medical conditions: like not brathing, heart stopped working, heart attack, CVA, Trauma, Epilepsia etc.

Lord Vukodlak
2011-11-13, 10:04 AM
I thought I'd throw this one in here as it fits in with the dark magic threat.


Inspire Hate
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting] [Evil]
Level: Sor/Wiz 7, Cleric 7, Bard 6
Components: V, S, F/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target: All creatures in a 40-ft. burst.
Duration: 1 round/ two levels (D); see text
Saving Throw: Will negates; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes
"This spell allows me to exploit the petty prejudices of man. Minor grievance would escalate to murderous rage and oh, the sweet terror when the spell wore off and they saw their hands covered with their neighbor's blood."
―Kain

You channel the power of pure malice and hatred into the subjects of this spell causing even the most minor of grievances to escalate into murderous rage. Those who fail their will saves regard everyone else as hostile bitter enemies. This usually means attacking the nearest creature or group of creatures in the area.(for this purpose, a familiar counts as part of the subject's self). Every round the subject is allowed a new saving throw to shrug off the effects of the spell.

Derjuin
2011-11-13, 01:19 PM
A few established spells you might like:

Avasculate (Spell Compendium): Causes the victim to violently purge blood and vital fluids through their skin, cutting their HP in half. Also stuns on a failed fort save.

Avascular Mass (Spell Compendium): Causes the victim to violently purge blood vessels from their body, creating an entangling mass within 20 feet of the victim. Stuns the primary victim on a failed fort save.

Extract Water Elemental (Spell Compendium): Creates from the victim's body water an elemental, that extracts itself from their body.

Decerebrate teleports a specific portion of the victim's brain stem out of their head that causes them to lose consciousness until they die from dehydration/starvation, or someone uses Restoration/Wish/etc. It's a psionic power, but you could easily make a spell version.

There are more; Spell Compendium and Book of Vile Darkness (and I'd wager Champions of Ruin, too) have a lot of rather dark spells.

super dark33
2011-11-13, 02:24 PM
Thankes, i also thought of this:

High pressure: Raises the victim's blood pressure.
he takes full doube damage from any bloodletting attack, and causes immidet death when Slashing bolts is used.

Calanon
2011-11-14, 02:18 AM
Kneel before Evil Fireball...

Sorry had to make that joke or I would have blown up...

I can seriously imagine these spells being added the corrupt spell list :smallsmile:

the levels however I can't identify... that save or die spell cannot be lower than 7th level, I'll tell you that much and the spells that are doing Con damage are going to be stupid to balance... maybe a range of touch, and keep them above atleast 5th level spells.

Realms of Chaos
2011-11-14, 09:43 AM
Can you give us a more solid definition of what Dark Magic means?

So far, your spells make it out to mean killing people. Apocalypse from the Sky? Dark magic (vile spell). Finger of death? dark magic (even a death effect). Implosion? dark magic (not a death attack but kills people). Fireball? Still probably dark magic (just an evocation but it has no other practical use than killing people and starting fires). By the logic of kill people = dark magic (or even "can only be used to kill people = dark magic"), 90% of evocation spells are dark magic.

Depending on who you ask, the majority of the enchantment subschool probably qualifies as dark magic as it involves breaking the will of a creature (saying that it can be used on evil creatures is kind of like saying that implosion can be used on evil creatures, in my opinion).

Cerebrotic spells from dragon magazine, using the fell magic of the far realms, could also be said to be "dark magic".

Transmutation effects like flesh to stone (and maybe even baleful polymorph) could be said to be dark magic as, again, they can only be used to make living creatures not alive anymore.

A good deal of conjuration spells are either used to deal damage (can be considered dark magic) or can be used to summon evil creatures (making them situationally dark magic).

Adding on the entirety of the necromancy school, every vile spell from the BoVD, and every evil spell in existance and you have a whole lot of Dark Magic, not just the "undead stuff".

The name of this thread suggests that there is not too much "dark magic" in existance other than undead stuff, which I'm pretty sure I just disproved using the vague definitoin of dark magic provided so far. Even in non-undead necromancy stuff (which seems to be your main aim), we still have things like bestow curse, contagion, poison, enervate, avasculate, the entire necrotic cyst line, oath of blood (from heroes of horror), death spells, and so forth.

To help us limit things down so that we can see what this rare "dark magic" is, could you please provide a definition?

Edit: Also, creating medical conditions through the medium of spells is probably a pretty poor way to go about it. For one thing, many mechanics we'll come up with (such as the high blood pressure) will exist in unrealistically powered forms (empowered by magic to be worth the spell slot). For another thing, those medical conditions won't actually be medical conditions anymore. Each and every one of them will the effects of a single spell in existance and nothing else (not genetics nor flaws nor feats nor class features, at least at the moment) will have anything to do with gaining these conditions or giving them to others.

super dark33
2011-11-14, 09:58 AM
Dark magic: Affects the body directly. meddles with body functions, and disturbs organs. So spells like cone of cold, orbs list and any indirect damage dont count.

About medical conditions: Not only for spells, but for anything else
like if you want your charecter to have asthma.

Lord Vukodlak
2011-11-14, 02:29 PM
Enchantment even dominate doesn't qualify as dark magic, it largely depends on what you do with the subject. And neither wood petrification effects as the target becomes mindless they don't go insane being statue for a few decades. Dark Suggestion has the problem that suggestion's limitation isn't built on an alignment it simply must be worded in a way that sounds reasonable. On some targets mass murder is a reasonable suggestion.

If your talking about a spell that ignores the reasonable suggestion qualifier. Its simply a higher level spell, maybe fifth or sixth level. Or it possibly shouldn't even work as it can to easily duplicate a dominate monster for one battle which is all you really need.

I consider my spell Inspire Hatred evil because it makes every one effected hostile to everyone else.

Fireball and the like are simply designed to kill the enemy its a tool of war.

Dark magic is usually deals with inflicting pain. Symbol of pain(and spells like it such as Wrack) are evil because the spells only purpose is to make the target suffer.

A death spell spell isn't dark magic in D&D terms, its more merciful then most combat spells as it ends things quickly. But a death spell designed to make the subject suffer before they die would qualify.

The medical condition spells some of them at least could qualify is evil spells there similar in nature to contagion. But I slashingbolts should have a different name. Sounds like a ray spell or a psionic crystal power. Call it
Internal Evisceration and give them all at least some minor penalty to actions due to intense pain.

Bringing evil into the world is always dark magic, its why summoning evil creatures or creating undead is evil. Even a mindless zombie involves animating a corpse with an evil spirit in contrast to a flesh golem which is animated by an elemental spirit. (distinction made by Libris Mortis).

Dark magic beyond channeling or creating evi creatures should be about more then defeating your enemy. Its about magic designed to make them suffer before they die. Or just make them suffer. Clutch of Orcus lets you paralyze a foe by squeezing their heart with magical force the end result being its removal should they die from the damage