View Full Version : Help Finish My Build: Remos, The Tornado of Daggers

2011-11-12, 10:37 PM
Today, my DM threw this guy Remos at us as a boss, and he was so good I asked for the build afterwards (he was a human with character levels, so in a future campaign he would be useful.) The only bad part is: the build is only up to 10th level. The build is as follows:

Fighter 5/ Master Thrower 5 (Complete Warrior pg. 58)
(1-5 are Fighter, 6-10 are Master Thrower)

Dex:16 (18; +1 at 4, +1 at 8)

BAB: 10
Saves: 6/6/3
HP: 90 (my DM does max HP)

Balance 6
Climb 6
Hide 6
Jump 6
Move Silently 6
Sleight of Hand 13
Swim 6
Tumble 13

lvl 1: Two Weapon Fighting {PHB}, Weapon Focus (Dagger) [Fighter] {PHB}, Able Learner [Human] {Races of Destiny}
lvl 2: Point Blank Shot [Fighter] {PHB}
lvl 3: Improved Two Weapon Fighting {PHB}
lvl 4: Precise Shot [Fighter] {PHB}
lvl 6: Weapon Specialization (Dagger) {PHB}, Quick Draw [Master Thrower] {PHB}
lvl 9: Ranged Weapon Mastery {PHB2}

Class Features:
lvl 6: Palm Throw
lvl 7: Evasion
lvl 8: Deadeye Shot
lvl 9: Snatch Arrows
lvl 10: Critical Throw, Weak Spot

Gauntlets of Infinite Blades (Magic Item Compendium pg. 101)
Ring of Protection +2 (Dungeon Masters Guide pg. 232)
+2 Chain Shirt

The flavor for Remos (Not really that necessary):

He is the father of my character, and he was a high ranking member in the thieves guild. He was also a total six letter word that rhymes with trucker as a father. Abusive, alcoholic, etc., and so when he tried to whore out my little sister, I "killed" him and burned our house down, never to return. It turns out he was alive and he actually followed us somehow, and he ambushed us when he finally decided to fight us again. It was in a room full of Ether, and he chose this place because he knows that as a Warlock I would be useless to fight him. I think he mainly wanted revenge, but I'm not sure. He could have just been paid to kill me. Tactics during the battle are below.

His tactics during the battle:

Every round, he uses a swift action to create up to 8 daggers with his gauntlets and throws them. With class features/feats/whatnot its +a lot vs touch AC, so he hits basically every time. He would use a full attack unless one of us was next to him, and if we were he'd tumble out of range. When our tank tried to run away (Yes, our TANK was scared of him. We were all level 7, outnumbered him, and he was STILL scared) he threw all 8 daggers at him, screaming "Nobody escapes my chamber of pain!", so obviously he would try to choose the most "dramatically fitting" opponent to focus on (Actually, since he got a critical, he would have done 162 damage in that one attack).

That's Remos in a nutshell. Now: How to improve/continue him? As far as classes go, I'm lost. I've looked at prestiges, I've considered continuing the Fighter aspect for the BAB and the feats (though I'm terrible at choosing feats). As for gear, different armor couldn't hurt (maybe a mithral full plate) and of course a couple Ioun Stones (More Dex=More kills). Extra daggers, maybe magic or adamantine, would probably be useful in situations where normal daggers just don't make the cut (pun very intended), although the exact type I haven't looked at yet. Skill tricks may come in handy in the future, but the skill points are rather few.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Please put the sourcebook for any feats/PrC's/items you suggest.


2011-11-13, 01:45 AM
Your DM's build has some issues. Improved TWF requires BAB+6 so could not have been taken at 3rd level. So the build probably went with Precise Shot at 3rd, Weapon Specialization at 4th, and Improved TWF at 6th. Your DM has tweaked his Gauntlet of Infinite Blades. Gauntlet of Infinite Blades requires a Swift Action to activate and creates 1 dagger. You can have only 1 Swift Action around normally.

Throwing builds are not really that great without some sort of extra damage like sneak attack or skirmish.

Human or Strongheart Halfling
1. Rogue - Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
2. Swashbuckler
3. Rogue - Craven
4. Rogue - Penetrating Strike (DS)
5. Swashbuckler
6. Swashbuckler - Two Weapon Fighting
7. Fighter - Targeteer (DragMag 310) - Vital Aim
8. Fighter - Targeteer (DragMag 310) - Far Shot
9. Swordsage - Shadow Blade
10. Swordsage
11. Master Thrower
12. Master Thrower - Improved Two Weapon Fighting
13. Master Thrower
14. Master Thrower
15. Master Thrower - Greater Two Weapon Fighting
16. Invisible Blade
17. Invisible Blade
18. Invisible Blade - Rapid Shot
19. Invisible Blade
20. Invisible Blade

18 BAB, 16 daggers thrown per round, 7d6+20 sneak attack (with assassins stance), dex mod and int mod to damage, wis mod to ac, and some maneuvers. Pick up Drow Long Knives (SoX) for one of your free ranged exotic weapon profs since they count as daggers for feats/abilities. If your DM allows you to add in Hit and Run Tactics onto the Targeteer fighter variant by all means go for it.

For gear look into a Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis (ToM), Rogue's Vest (MIC), and some sort of infinite dagger source like Gauntlet of Infinite Blades (MIC, see if your DM will allow to activate as free instead of swift action, even if it means increasing the price), Gloves of Endless Javelins (MIC page 194, see if your DM can change Javelin into Dagger), or a Quiver of Anariel (http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/drizzt-35.htm) modified into a bandoleer of daggers (WOTC took down the original article that this was from but the info was copied in that link)

2011-11-13, 02:03 AM
All of the damage comes from feats, and it's not very much- Palm Throw and Weak Spot don't allow applying Strength, and you don't have any means of using Dex or alternate stats. So you're getting d4+1 (Point Blank) + 2 (Weapon Spec) + 2 (Weapon Mastery). That's pretty pathetic, per hit; the only real saving grace of it is the class features that take your 19-20/x2 crit range to a 17-20/x3. You get completely screwed by DR.

There's two obvious things that can be attached to this build to help out. The first is grabbing Tome of Battle and getting some Bloodstorm Blade in there; if you get enough levels you can make a full thrown attack with just a single weapon, which lets you invest in a proper magical dagger. The other is rejigging your feats to get Power Attack -> Brutal Throw -> Power Throw in there, which is exactly what it sounds like; Power Attack for thrown weapons. Since most of your attacks should be touch attacks you'll have a surplus of hit bonus going around, and Power Throw will let you make practical use of that so you aren't relying so much on a death-of-a-thousand-cuts style. (Also Boots of Speed for the sake of all the gods, get some.)

Edit: and I have no idea how your DM would achieve 162 damage with what you've claimed is the build unless his dice have gone really weird and he crit *every attack* for near max; as noted, the dude is doing at most 9 damage per dagger, 27 if he crits for max.

2011-11-13, 06:50 PM
Possibly ditching the Fighter feats for the Sneak-Attack fighter variant could work, sure you'll be lower on feats, but each dagger against someone who's denied their Dex bonus to AC is adding like 3d6 sneak attack to it. Winning initiative and being able to throw a tonne of daggers ( What was it, eight? In this example?)

so (Dagger damage + 3d6 ) x8

Not bad at all, assuming normal daggers and brutal throw: (1d4 + 5 + 3d6) x8
= 140 average ( With d4 average being 2.5 and 3d6 average rounded down to 10 ) +5 is from Brutal Throw

Edit: And then add Point Blank shot and Weapon Specializtion etc for +3 or +5 to each dagger.....

Edit: You wouldn't get any-where near as many attacks and things without normal fighter feats xD, this is rather feat heavy to achieve by 10th level, unless someone knows dips that give feats like Point Blank Shot or Precise Shot ( Binder perhaps?Lose 1 BaB gain a feat...)