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Sunken Valley
2011-11-13, 02:26 PM
Hello and welcome to the greatest vs thread of all time! We have 128 characters from a variety of universes for you to debate about.

Although this is a debate thread, it is one with a difference. You have to vote for who you think would win before you get to debate. Simply bold the name of the competitor you think would win like this. If you don't want to vote for the character you think would win you can vote for the character you want to win and even cast a joke vote. All of these count to the final vote score. Try and vote in as many combats as possible (there can be 16 at a time). Your vote will progress the tournament.

All characters are at their most powerful (unassisted and non-omnipotent level). They do not get any one-shot power boosts. Ever. They do not get to bring allies with them although they can bring vehicles (for example, Mecha) if doing so increases their power considerably. Both combatents will fight and not hesitate. Fights are Knock-out (or to the death if said opponent cannot be knocked out). This is because some of the characters are immortal.

Now to discuss Terrain Rules. The first person to vote in an individual combat picks the terrain. The only restriction is that the terrain must not be able to harm any or both of the combatants, for example, space, lava, bottom of the sea, toxic environments and anything else. Of course, if both opponents are immune to the environment (and that includes with vehicles like space ships) then they can use it. Environments that aid one combatant are allowed, but not if the environment itself hinders the opponent without manipulation by the advantaged combatant. The rule that combatants cannot have any help still applies. Furthermore, no creatures are present in the terrain to distract combatants.


But that's old stuff. Some of you may have heard of the "twist" this royale would have. I am now at liberty to reveal it as....

Tag teams.

Yes, tag teams. The hero and villain joining forces to fight off similar pairings from other universes. The hero and villain will never "betray" each other, but their antagonism may affect their teamwork. Neither gets any assistance from anyone but their partner.

Time to reveal the first 32 contestants.

Ripley & Ash (Aliens vs. Predator verse) vs Smiling Jack & Divis Mal (Whitewolf)
Rachel & David (Animorphs) vs Creed & Swarmlord (Warhammer 40k)
Tom Strong & Kid Miracleman (Alan Moore) vs Rhinox & Starscream (Transformers)
King Arthur & Green Knight (Arthurian Legend) vs Splinter & Shredder (TMNT)
Aang & Koh the Facestealer (Avatar: the Last Airbender 'verse) vs T-800 & T-1000 (Terminator)
Ichigo & Aizen (Bleach) vs Castiel & Lucifer (Supernatural)
Giles & Olvikan (Richard Wilkins) (Buffyverse) vs Ken Masters & Akuma (Street Fighter)
Rolo & Charles Vi Britannia (Code Geass) vs Luke Skywalker & Emperor Palpatine (Star Wars)

Votes due 20th November@ 9:00am. Please vote and debate.

Selrahc
2011-11-13, 02:54 PM
1. Whitewolf Smiling Jack
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aa8B7hIynE) is basically irrelevant, he's a decently powerful elder vampire, while Divis Mal is basically Superman++ level of power.

2. Creed and Swarmlord? That's a bit of WTF pairing.
WH40K wins though. Pretty much entirely based on the Swarmlord. Creed is a really crap representative for WH40k, since his entire strength is in strategic and tactical planning, not 1 on 1 duels. At least under this set up he has somebody to boss around.

Rachel can transform into a grizzly bear. David can transform into a polar bear maybe? The Swarmlord can solo both without even using his boneswords.

3. Alan Moore
Kid Miracleman is another Superman+ figure, who dominates his team. Tom Strong is a smart and powerful pulpy action hero from a series about fun science heroes. Kid Miracleman is a metaphor for the Superhero as a god figure...

The transformers can not fight a creature that can level continents.

4. First sort of even fight.
I'd give it to the Arthurians. Arthur and the Green Knight both have supernatural invulnerability, which is enough to give them an edge. I could at least conceive of the other side winning though, which is more than can be said for the first three matches.

5. Pass.

6. Pass

7. Hum. Don't know. Ascended Mayor took a building exploding to down him. But beating up a big nasty monster seems within the capacities of the Chi Powered street fighters.

If it is unascended Mayor, then Richard Willikins and Giles will be knocked over and hog tied within a few minutes.

8. Star Wars if EU is allowed, where both Luke and Palpy are stupidly powerful.

Viking_Mage
2011-11-13, 03:19 PM
1.) Whitewolf fighters
2.) Warhammer fighters
3.) Tom Strong & Kid Miracleman
4.) King Arthur and the Green Knight - better teamwork, armor beats martial arts
5.) Aang and Koh: Terrain: Cavern complex. Koh has to sit this one out (or at best as a distraction) while Aang Earth-bends the terminators immobile.
6.) Castiel & Lucifer
7.) Giles & Ascended Mayor, but barely.
8.) Luke Skywalker and Palpatine

Istari
2011-11-13, 03:49 PM
King Arthur & Green Knight (Arthurian Legend) vs Splinter & Shredder (TMNT)
Aang & Koh the Facestealer (Avatar: the Last Airbender 'verse) vs T-800 & T-1000 (Terminator)
Ichigo & Aizen (Bleach) vs Castiel & Lucifer (Supernatural)
Rolo & Charles Vi Britannia (Code Geass) vs Luke Skywalker & Emperor Palpatine (Star Wars) - The Star Wars team has the advantage in a fight, but Rolo can freeze them allowing Charles to either shoot them, plus Charles's immortality makes the typical force powers useless. Additionally Luke and the Emperor aren't going to cooperate well where as Rolo and Charles were allies for most of the series.

Prime32
2011-11-13, 04:49 PM
Some of you may have heard of the "twist" this royale would have. I am now at liberty to reveal it as....

Tag teams.

Yes, tag teams. The hero and villain joining forces to fight off similar pairings from other universes. The hero and villain will never "betray" each other, but their antagonism may affect their teamwork. Neither gets any assistance from anyone but their partner.Knew it. :smallamused:


Ripley & Ash (Aliens vs. Predator verse) vs Smiling Jack & Divis Mal (Whitewolf)
Rachel & David (Animorphs) vs Creed & Swarmlord (Warhammer 40k) - Earth animals + Hork-Bajir < 40K stuff
Tom Strong & Kid Miracleman (Alan Moore) vs Rhinox & Starscream (Transformers)
King Arthur & Green Knight (Arthurian Legend) vs Splinter & Shredder (TMNT)
Aang & Koh the Facestealer (Avatar: the Last Airbender 'verse) vs T-800 & T-1000 (Terminator) - if Aang is in the Avatar State he should be able to beat them easily
Ichigo & Aizen (Bleach) vs Castiel & Lucifer (Supernatural) - their combined level of hax and sword-lasers is almost unstoppable
Giles & Olvikan (Richard Wilkins) (Buffyverse) vs Ken Masters & Akuma (Street Fighter) - can't Akuma send people to hell by punching them or something?
Rolo & Charles Vi Britannia (Code Geass) vs Luke Skywalker & Emperor Palpatine (Star Wars) - this comes down to who acts first, which will probably be the guys with precognitive senses

Forum Explorer
2011-11-13, 05:50 PM
Ripley & Ash (Aliens vs. Predator verse) vs [B]Smiling Jack & Divis Mal (Whitewolf)
Rachel & David (Animorphs) vs Creed & Swarmlord (Warhammer 40k) though they could possibly morph into the Swarmlord. Doubt that they would survive the attempt though.
Tom Strong & Kid Miracleman (Alan Moore) vs Rhinox & Starscream (Transformers)
[B]King Arthur & Green Knight (Arthurian Legend) vs Splinter & Shredder (TMNT)
Aang & Koh the Facestealer (Avatar: the Last Airbender 'verse) vs T-800 & T-1000 (Terminator) BAM! Headshot
Ichigo & Aizen (Bleach) vs Castiel & Lucifer (Supernatural)
Giles & Olvikan (Richard Wilkins) (Buffyverse) vs Ken Masters & Akuma (Street Fighter)
Rolo & Charles Vi Britannia (Code Geass) vs Luke Skywalker & Emperor Palpatine (Star Wars) Rolo can freeze time and finish them off with his mech easily. Charles provides a good shield that is immortal and a good stratagest as well.

Votes due 20th November@ 9:00am. Please vote and debate.[/QUOTE]

Selrahc
2011-11-13, 06:04 PM
Ripley & Ash (Aliens vs. Predator verse) vs Smiling Jack & Divis Mal (Whitewolf)
Tom Strong & Kid Miracleman (Alan Moore) vs Rhinox & Starscream (Transformers)


Have you got any reason behind those votes?

Because Transformers and AvP both seem staggeringly outclassed. Both Divis Mal and Kid Miracleman are explorations of the theme of superhuman as deity and they have some impressive powers backing that up.

Do you need an explanation on the characters?

zingbat
2011-11-13, 08:07 PM
Ripley & Ash (Aliens vs. Predator verse) vs Smiling Jack & Divis Mal (Whitewolf) -- pass, I know nothing about Whitewolf and Wikipedia is not helpful here.
Rachel & David (Animorphs) vs Creed & Swarmlord (Warhammer 40k) -- This... thing (http://images.wikia.com/warhammer40k/images/2/21/Swarmlord_%28Artwork%29.jpg) against kids who can turn into... what, bears? That's just wrong.
Tom Strong & Kid Miracleman (Alan Moore) vs Rhinox & Starscream (Transformers) -- Strong goes for coffee while Kid Miracleman rips out some robotic guts. Total curbstomp.
King Arthur & Green Knight (Arthurian Legend) vs Splinter & Shredder (TMNT) -- This is a fun one. I can see it going either way, but I'm giving the edge to the ninjas. The heavy armour of the knights would give them a severe mobility advantage, and that's the last thing you want when facing ninjas.
Aang & Koh the Facestealer (Avatar: the Last Airbender 'verse) vs T-800 & T-1000 (Terminator) -- I'm not sure on this one; are bender powers stronger than heavy modern firearms? Voting for the T's for now, but could be convinced otherwise.
Ichigo & Aizen (Bleach) vs Castiel & Lucifer (Supernatural) -- pass for now. How powerful is this particular Lucifer, anyway?
Giles & Olvikan (Richard Wilkins) (Buffyverse) vs Ken Masters & Akuma (Street Fighter) -- Giles gets beat handily. Not sure how strong Wilkins is as a demon, but I think Ken and Akuma can take him down. Hadouken!
Rolo & Charles Vi Britannia (Code Geass) vs Luke Skywalker & Emperor Palpatine (Star Wars) -- Rolo freezes them, tags in Charles to finish them off.

Istari
2011-11-13, 08:26 PM
King Arthur & Green Knight (Arthurian Legend) vs Splinter & Shredder (TMNT) -- This is a fun one. I can see it going either way, but I'm giving the edge to the ninjas. The heavy armour of the knights would give them a severe mobility advantage, and that's the last thing you want when facing ninjas.
Aang & Koh the Facestealer (Avatar: the Last Airbender 'verse) vs T-800 & T-1000 (Terminator) -- I'm not sure on this one; are bender powers stronger than heavy modern firearms? Voting for the T's for now, but could be convinced otherwise.off.

Did you mean to vote for the knights?

Argument for Avatar - Earth bending makes a shield against firearms and more bending of basically any type is more than enough to immobilize, decapitate or freeze/melt the terminators, especially considering that they are not nearly agile enough to dodge any bending techniques.

Lord Loss
2011-11-13, 08:33 PM
Ripley & Ash (Aliens vs. Predator verse) vs Smiling Jack & Divis Mal (Whitewolf)
Rachel & David (Animorphs) vs Creed & Swarmlord (Warhammer 40k)
Tom Strong & Kid Miracleman (Alan Moore) vs Rhinox & Starscream (Transformers)
King Arthur & Green Knight (Arthurian Legend) vs Splinter & Shredder (TMNT)
Aang & Koh the Facestealer (Avatar: the Last Airbender 'verse) vs T-800 & T-1000 (Terminator)
Ichigo & Aizen (Bleach) vs Castiel & Lucifer (Supernatural)
Giles & Olvikan (Richard Wilkins) (Buffyverse) vs Ken Masters & Akuma (Street Fighter)
Rolo & Charles Vi Britannia (Code Geass) vs Luke Skywalker & Emperor Palpatine (Star Wars)

Forum Explorer
2011-11-13, 08:46 PM
Have you got any reason behind those votes?

Because Transformers and AvP both seem staggeringly outclassed. Both Divis Mal and Kid Miracleman are explorations of the theme of superhuman as deity and they have some impressive powers backing that up.

Do you need an explanation on the characters?

yes please! When I don't know anything about one universe I vote for the one I'm familiar with.

zingbat
2011-11-13, 08:50 PM
Did you mean to vote for the knights?

Nope. Corrected; thanks!

Still thinking on Avatar. Not convinced yet. :smallsmile:

Mr.Silver
2011-11-13, 09:06 PM
Skipping ones I don't know.


Ripley & Ash (Aliens vs. Predator verse) vs Smiling Jack & Divis Mal (Whitewolf)
Ripley is a true Badass and Ash is a goddamn robot. Neither of them are elder vampires though, which renders this pretty much a none-contest.


Rachel & David (Animorphs) vs Creed & Swarmlord (Warhammer 40k)
Swarmlord utterly massacres Rachel and David by himself. Adding Creed won't even make a difference.



King Arthur & Green Knight (Arthurian Legend) vs Splinter & Shredder (TMNT)
Guys armed with blades and with some magical protection of death will probably beat the unarmoured all-too-mortal guys. The ninjas will probably give them a hard time, but it's still probably a knight's victory.


Aang & Koh the Facestealer (Avatar: the Last Airbender 'verse) vs T-800 & T-1000 (Terminator)
I don't recall seeing Aang ever use fire hot enough to melt metal which probably puts the T-1000 outside of his capabilities. He also doesn't move fast enough to block bullets and as such will be taken out by the first shot. Koh is a bit of a problem as his combat powers aren't exactly well-defined. Note though that pitting him against too practically emotionless machines renders his face-stealing powers pretty much useless, and if he can be taken down by conventional weaponry the Terminators will probably be able to do it.



Giles & Olvikan (Richard Wilkins) (Buffyverse) vs Ken Masters & Akuma (Street Fighter)
Not voting this one yet as I don't know what Ken and Akuma's damage output is. If they can blow-up a building in a hit (individually or as a combined attack) then they'll probably win. If they can't then Olvikan is going to give them more than a few problems.

Istari
2011-11-13, 09:18 PM
Again pointing out for the avatar battle that Aang has the ability to put up rock shields to block bullets or wear rock/crystal armor which would probably also block some bullets. Also especially given the cavern battlefield Aang can easily just collapse a tunnel on their heads to take out the T-800 and assuming the T-1000 can escape that and Aang's fire isn't hot enough to melt him (possible), he can freeze him solid, which he can't get out of.

zingbat
2011-11-13, 09:46 PM
Guys armed with blades and with some magical protection of death will probably beat the unarmed all-too-mortal guys. The ninjas will probably give them a hard time, but it's still probably a knight's victory.


Shredder wears bladed armour and uses many different martial arts weapons. Splinter trained the turtles to use their weapons. Why assume they came to this fight unarmed?

Prime32
2011-11-13, 10:09 PM
Can we assume for the purposes of this fight that Caledfwlch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caledvwlch) and Caladbolg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caladbolg) are the same weapon? If they are, King Arthur blows up the battlefield. :smalltongue: If not, eh, it still "burns with the light of thirty torches".

Apart from that, Artie either can't die while he has his sheath or is very hard to kill. Meanwhile, the Green Knight can survive being decapitated. :smallamused:

zingbat
2011-11-14, 02:00 AM
Can we assume for the purposes of this fight that Caledfwlch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caledvwlch) and Caladbolg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caladbolg) are the same weapon? If they are, King Arthur blows up the battlefield. :smalltongue: If not, eh, it still "burns with the light of thirty torches".

Apart from that, Artie either can't die while he has his sheath or is very hard to kill. Meanwhile, the Green Knight can survive being decapitated. :smallamused:

You think the Irish are going to let Arthur use their best sword? Forget it, pal. :smallbiggrin:

Kato
2011-11-14, 04:43 AM
Tag teams.

BAM! You hear that? That's my head exploding :smallamused: Makes for some amusing fights I guess. And heck, Willow and Evil Willow tagteaming their enemies? Think of the after battle victory celebration! ........................ Okay, okay, voting now...


King Arthur & Green Knight (Arthurian Legend) vs Splinter & Shredder (TMNT) - I think it's a balanced battle but I'll give the ninjas the edge due to their mobility.
Aang & Koh the Facestealer (Avatar: the Last Airbender 'verse) vs T-800 & T-1000 (Terminator) - Koh will be lazy in this on but Aang can just earth bend shield and then wreck enough havok on them. Given, neither fire nor wind will be too useful but some few ton rocks should do the job and then freeze them to a standstill.
Rolo & Charles Vi Britannia (Code Geass) vs Luke Skywalker & Emperor Palpatine (Star Wars) - I'll give to to Rolo and Charles. For all their force powers they have no superior defense to protect them from freezing/head shot combo. Also, Charles is hard to take out which I guess will be difficult later as well. Might be we got an end game team here.

Votes due 20th November@ 9:00am. Please vote and debate.[/QUOTE]

Mr.Silver
2011-11-14, 06:42 AM
Shredder wears bladed armour and uses many different martial arts weapons. Splinter trained the turtles to use their weapons. Why assume they came to this fight unarmed?

Sorry, that should read unarmoured, I'll go and edit it now. Yes, I know Shredder wears some armour, but it doesn't exactly cover him well (particularly his limbs).




Aang & Koh the Facestealer (Avatar: the Last Airbender 'verse) vs T-800 & T-1000 (Terminator) - Koh will be lazy in this on but Aang can just earth bend shield and then wreck enough havok on them. Given, neither fire nor wind will be too useful but some few ton rocks should do the job and then freeze them to a standstill.
How exactly is he going to wreck havok? The T-800 could potentially be taken-out by rocks, but it's still a hell of a lot more durable than a normal human and, as I previously mention, Aang simply cannot produce the temperatures required to pose any real threat to the T-1000 (hot or cold). Note also that both of them are far, far, stronger than any human and they will probably be armed with guns which could be blocked with an earth shield but that depends on Aang being able to shield before they pull the trigger as he doesn't possess superhuman reflexes. On top of this, the T-1000 is incredibly fast and can grow blades capable of shearing through metal. Toph maybe would win this through metal-bending, but Aang can't do that and therefore is pretty much screwed.

Forum Explorer
2011-11-14, 07:07 AM
Plus the T-800 does get to use things like RPGs and bazookas. A rock shield won't protect very well from that. Putting the fight in a cave actually benfits the Terminators because they need less light to see. That combined with their amazing targeting. The T-1000 pretty much can't be stopped by Aang at all so while the T-800 is battered the T-1000 can take out Aang.

Selrahc
2011-11-14, 07:13 AM
yes please! When I don't know anything about one universe I vote for the one I'm familiar with.

Smiling Jack: Anarch at Large

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSVShg_1U6D0FX7sJTQNuuf0Inmgp3cr CW3-SuANnEqvUXzGQCj
Smiling Jack (http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Smiling_Jack) was born in the 1600's, and embraced as a member of the Brujah clan. He spent his early years as a pirate. In the Final Nights of the Masquerade, Jack was a legend. The embodiment of the Anarch ideals. He took crap from nobody, helped those who needed it, lived large and kicked ass.

Jack has an unassuming appearance, looking more like a street hobo than an ancient predator. Despite this though, his powers are impressive. Jack is an elder of the Brujah renowned for his knowledge of Potence (http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Potence_%28VTM%29) and Celerity (http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Celerity_%28VTM%29), as well as for being tougher than old boots. Jack eschews the mental disciplines of the vampires in favour of being a super strong, super fast, super tough BAMF.

But while being a Vampire may let you tank shotgun blasts and heal in the blink of an eye, it also carries significant weaknesses. Fire and Sunlight cause intense damage, and weapons of extreme faith can also be particularly useful.

TLDR: Super fast, super tough, super strong vampire with centuries of experience.

Divis Mal: Terrible Angel
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSh2em1Co-X5QpgCFBJT5ndWiez8HrQykX3a0m0e_AWT2QC3dWkHw
Born at the turn of the twentieth century, Divis Mal (http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Michael_Daemon_Donighal) was present at the "Hammersmith" incident in 1922. The incident turned him into something beyond human.. the first of a new breed of creatures known as "Novas". His early life was spent adventuring with the Aeon society, defeating larger than life villains and crazy schemes. By the 40's however his incredible powers and arrogance had formed a wedge between the society and Divis Mal. His oldest friends turned on him in a battle that sent him into hiding for another 50 years. Worse, it alienated his one beloved, the time traveller Max Mercer.

By the 1990's Divis Mal had completed his master plan. Humanity was obsolete, he would create the new gods. Other beings like himself. He flooded the world with Quantum energy and acted as the shepherd to the new generation of Novas that emerged.

Divis Mal was incredibly powerful. His quantum energies had pushed him beyond human in every conceivable manner. His mind was smarter than the greatest of humanity, his charisma was enough to sway nations, and his physical prowess was enough to shake continents. Beyond that, he had incredible powers, he could create energy fields out of startling green plasma, fly faster than sound, freeze opponents in stasis. With effort and time, he could do almost anything. While the new Novas played the part of Superheroes, Divis Mal knew that they were truly becoming gods.

EDIT: Divis Mal has a thing about free choice. He doesn't kill unless it's really necessary, he hates overriding the wills of others and he will happily engage in debate rather than combat. Smiling Jack may actually primarily be helpful to keep him focussed.

TLDR: Incredible superstrength, toughness, speed. The generation of plasma storms capable of levelling cities. Variety of powers manipulating energy. Incredible mental acumen.

Tom Strong: Science Hero

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/17/Tstt12.jpg/220px-Tstt12.jpg
Tom Strong (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Strong) was born at the dawn of the twentieth century. He was placed in a high gravity chamber by his parents, and fed upon a rare tropical herb. The end result was to give him a superhuman physique and incredible longevity. Tom's major power though is his formidable intellect. Raised in the best scientific traditions, Tom has used his mind to tackle problems that seemed insoluble for the best part of a century. With his family behind him, his years of experience and his incredible mind Tom has handled foes as diverse as Alien Ants, Living Planets, Invaders from Beyond Time and Extradimensional Attackers.

TLDR: Superstrong. Very smart and experienced. Uses gadgets.

Kid Miracleman: A God Alone

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/80/Miracleman2.jpg
Kid Miracleman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kid_Marvelman) was the child sidekick of Miracleman. But while Miracleman vanished in the fifties, Kid Miracleman remained. He grew and matured. His already formidable strength and power became still greater. His mind however became twisted and warped by decades of being the only god in a world of mortals.

When Miracleman reemerged, that drove Kid Miracleman beyond the edge. He went on a rampage, killing millions. It took an alliance of half a dozen superheroes to bring him down.

Kid Miracleman has all the powers and abilities of Miracleman. He can fly at incredible speeds, generate forcefields and shoot energy blasts. His mental faculties are beyond human, capable of perceiving things on a level above and beyond humanity. This causes a perception of godhood.

TLDR: Incredible superspeed, super strength, telepathy, energy generation, flight.

Mr.Silver
2011-11-14, 08:15 AM
Again pointing out for the avatar battle that Aang has the ability to put up rock shields to block bullets or wear rock/crystal armor which would probably also block some bullets.
Problem 1: if you're pitting human reflex versus bullets then bullets are going to win. Every time. Especially is the guy facing them has never seen a gun before. Terminators are also incredibly good shots.
Problem 2: Explosive weaponry is not exactly unknown to the T-800. The T-1000 can probably dismantle a rock shield/armour 'naked'.



Also especially given the cavern battlefield Aang can easily just collapse a tunnel on their heads to take out the T-800
This could probably work on the T-800. The problem is that Aang is unlikely to resort to this kind of attack as an opening move, given that he dislikes overkill and is unlikely to know what a robot is, so there's a fair chance he'll get shot before he pulls this off (low-light conditions help the Terminators far more than they help him).


and assuming the T-1000 can escape that
It walked away from crashing a speeding juggernaut into a concrete piller and the subsequent explosion undamaged. A cave-in might slow it down but that's probably all.



and Aang's fire isn't hot enough to melt him (possible),
We are talking temperatures of over 1,000 Celsius here. Firebending has never been shown to do that in a single attack. Maybe if you took a long time and concentrated effort, but you won't get that in a fight.


he can freeze him solid
Just a reminder, it took being doused in liquid nitrogen (which is around -200 Celsius in temperature) to freeze the T-1000 solid. So again, odds of this actually happening are pretty remote.

Point being, Aang could possibly take-out the T-800 - he'd still probably lose that fight, but it is within his capacity to win if luck's with him. The T-1000 though is well beyond his abilities and it will murder him, unless Koh can do anything to it which seems rather unlikely (given that Koh isn't really a combat entity and his face-stealing is worthless here).

zingbat
2011-11-14, 09:21 AM
Kid Miracleman: A God Alone

TLDR: Incredible superspeed, super strength, telepathy, energy generation, flight.

Also, he's a murderous psychopath. That may be of note. Tom Strong is probably questioning his choice of partner...

zingbat
2011-11-14, 09:33 AM
Apart from that, Artie either can't die while he has his sheath or is very hard to kill. Meanwhile, the Green Knight can survive being decapitated. :smallamused:

True, but they don't have to be killed. Knocking them out or incapacitating them in some way is enough for the win.

zingbat
2011-11-14, 09:35 AM
Also, I'm sticking with the Terminators. Aang might have a chance against just the T-800, but I don't think he can do anything against the T-1000.

Istari
2011-11-14, 02:56 PM
Plus the T-800 does get to use things like RPGs and bazookas. A rock shield won't protect very well from that. Putting the fight in a cave actually benfits the Terminators because they need less light to see. That combined with their amazing targeting. The T-1000 pretty much can't be stopped by Aang at all so while the T-800 is battered the T-1000 can take out Aang.

Okay, I suppose we won't agree on the other points, but Aang does have a less potent version of Toph's tremorsense, so he has superior vision to the terminators.

Kato
2011-11-14, 03:27 PM
So... I guess there is something about the Avatar/Terminator battle we should consider. What weaponry do we make available? Neither Terminator can create weapons, that are not blades or the like. I guess you could argue T-1000 could just create a piercing weapon to reach Aang but then that wouldn't be nearly on the level of a normal gun in speed (and probably not power)
Anyway, if we give them guns it is I guess slightly unfair against a far technologically disadvantaged opponent who wouldn't even consider it might be a threat. But that's like a matter of any battle where the opponents are not from the real world. They don't know each other capabilities. And that means the more advanced enemy will win, unless the other is a cheating bastard. And for the sake of the argument I'll say Aang realizes the danger of a gun pointed at him.

Stand to reason the matter of the T-1000. We know very little about Aang' range of abilities or its resilience to heat/cold. He might just liquidify (is that even a word?) out of a landslide but if he gets shot with fire long enough that might be enough to take him out... or he might be rendered useless if trapped in suffiecent rock, who knows? Of course, Aang is not certain to win but I'll give him the chance of a doubt.

Forum Explorer
2011-11-14, 03:28 PM
Okay, I suppose we won't agree on the other points, but Aang does have a less potent version of Toph's tremorsense, so he has superior vision to the terminators.

Didn't know that. So that helps a little. Regarding the new information about them vampires and those weird superheroes/villian

Ok the Vampires definatly got this but it would be one awesome fight since Riply gets her powersuit or her awesome gun/flamethrower

I would actually give the fight to the transformers but Starscream is so incompetant he would actually make Rhionex do worse then normal. And it would be a close fight normally.

Istari
2011-11-14, 03:59 PM
Just a reminder, it took being doused in liquid nitrogen (which is around -200 Celsius in temperature) to freeze the T-1000 solid. So again, odds of this actually happening are pretty remote.


After looking up the scene, he froze after being doused in liquid nitrogen, not necessarily the minimum temperature required to do so, and all he really needs to do is encase him in ice, which has been shown to be possible, and since the T-1000 can only recover once its unfrozen (never if Aang stays there), it qualifies as a knockout.

Selrahc
2011-11-14, 04:10 PM
Ok the Vampires definatly got this but it would be one awesome fight since Riply gets her powersuit or her awesome gun/flamethrower

I could see a fight between Ripley and Jack being interesting. I think ultimately he would be too fast for her, and would end up ripping her powersuit to pieces, bit by bit. Or dive onto Ripley and knock her out, since the powerlifter doesn't cover her in armour. If she *could* get him in her lifting claws or hit him with the flamethrower however, things would go badly for Jack...


Divis Mal kind of trivializes matters though. :/
Nothing the power suit can do would hurt him in the slightest, while he could easily disintegrate it into atoms with a gesture. Or more likely, drain all the power from it, then lift Ripley out of the machine in a bubble of energy leaving her unharmed.

Top cat
2011-11-14, 06:07 PM
Ripley & Ash (Aliens vs. Predator verse) vs Smiling Jack & Divis Mal (Whitewolf) - pass
Rachel & David (Animorphs) vs Creed & Swarmlord (Warhammer 40k) WH40k
Tom Strong & Kid Miracleman (Alan Moore) vs Rhinox & Starscream (Transformers) pass
King Arthur & Green Knight (Arthurian Legend) vs Splinter & Shredder (TMNT) TMNT
Aang & Koh the Facestealer (Avatar: the Last Airbender 'verse) vs T-800 & T-1000 (Terminator) Terminator
Ichigo & Aizen (Bleach) vs Castiel & Lucifer (Supernatural) pass, I do not know what this supernatural is. Bleach is shonen though, so y'know.
Giles & Olvikan (Richard Wilkins) (Buffyverse) vs Ken Masters & Akuma (Street Fighter) Pass
Rolo & Charles Vi Britannia (Code Geass) vs Luke Skywalker & Emperor Palpatine (Star Wars) Code Geass. Time stop.

Mr.Silver
2011-11-14, 06:17 PM
So... I guess there is something about the Avatar/Terminator battle we should consider. What weaponry do we make available? Neither Terminator can create weapons, that are not blades or the like. I guess you could argue T-1000 could just create a piercing weapon to reach Aang but then that wouldn't be nearly on the level of a normal gun in speed (and probably not power)
Bear in mind the T-1000 has one hell of running speed, plus his camouflage abilities, so range even if he's stuck in melee it's not a big problem. Note that the fact this is an underground fight limits Aang's abilities to just fly away. T-800 will almost certainly be packing a shotgun in addition to any other side-arms and maybe some explosives. T-1000 doesn't really have a standard load-out, although for most of the film he's usually packing less than that, probably one or two small arms.



Anyway, if we give them guns it is I guess slightly unfair against a far technologically disadvantaged opponent who wouldn't even consider it might be a threat.
I don't think these pairings are based much around fair fights:smalltongue:



But that's like a matter of any battle where the opponents are not from the real world. They don't know each other capabilities. And that means the more advanced enemy will win, unless the other is a cheating bastard. And for the sake of the argument I'll say Aang realizes the danger of a gun pointed at him.
Granted, but then you're still left with the fact that Aang's reflexes are normal speed. Bullets aren't known for being easy to dodge, and Terminators are ridiculously good shots.




Stand to reason the matter of the T-1000. We know very little about Aang' range of abilities
You mean excluding the countless times he fights and otherwise demonstrates his powers in the series? :smallconfused:



He might just liquidify (is that even a word?) out of a landslide but if he gets shot with fire long enough that might be enough to take him out...
Yeah, but we're talking about quite a lot of time here, assuming the heat generated by firebending is even enough to melt the T-1000 (again, note that said machine has walked out of an actual fireball without any noticeable ill-effects).

Also, as I previously mentioned, Aang does not generally go for the extreme measure first thing in a fight so I don't think we can assume he'll be collapsing the cave as an opener . Which means he's a lot more likely to get shot.



or he might be rendered useless if trapped in suffiecent rock, who knows? Of course, Aang is not certain to win but I'll give him the chance of a doubt.
So, if Aang has >0% chance of winning then we might as well assume he'll win? Is that your point here? Because short of dropping the T-1000 into a convenient pool of lava Aang really doesn't have any real chance beyond getting extremely lucky.




After looking up the scene, he froze after being doused in liquid nitrogen, not necessarily the minimum temperature required to do so, and all he really needs to do is encase him in ice,
The problem here is that your second assertion doesn't follow-on from the first. While it's true that the liquid nitrogen may not be the necessarily the minimum temperature needed (it would have pretty much the same effect on a human, after all), you can't just arbitrarily declare that the same result can be achieved by just encasing the T-1000 in ice, particularly when this isn't even fatal to humans in the Airbender verse.


which has been shown to be possible, and since the T-1000 can only recover once its unfrozen (never if Aang stays there), it qualifies as a knockout.
I suspect a superhumanly strong robot capable of altering it's own shape into blades and picks just might be able to break out of an ice prison.

Istari
2011-11-14, 07:20 PM
I agree with you that the T-1000 could break out if his whole body was trapped in ice, but if Aang freezes the individual pieces that come out of the rock slide, I doubt those have enough force to break out.

Prime32
2011-11-14, 08:45 PM
True, but they don't have to be killed. Knocking them out or incapacitating them in some way is enough for the win.Arthur has defeated armies of thousands of men single-handedly. I'm sure I've heard Splinter and Shredder shout "There's too many of them!" on multiple occasions.


I would actually give the fight to the transformers but Starscream is so incompetant he would actually make Rhionex do worse then normal. And it would be a close fight normally.As I said last time Starscream came up, it depends heavily on the incarnation of Starscream we're talking about. One fought evenly (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4NCkg-cZ_c) against a planet (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keMof1nC2YU).

zingbat
2011-11-14, 11:03 PM
Arthur has defeated armies of thousands of men single-handedly. I'm sure I've heard Splinter and Shredder shout "There's too many of them!" on multiple occasions.

Bah, that's just bad Arthurian fanfic. :smallbiggrin:


As I said last time Starscream came up, it depends heavily on the incarnation of Starscream we're talking about. One fought evenly (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4NCkg-cZ_c) against a planet (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keMof1nC2YU).

I'm not familiar with that particular version of Transformers, but Super Starscream looks like a one-shot power-up, and thus wouldn't count. And even if it did, I'd still wager that Kid Mircleman would tear him apart.

Top cat
2011-11-15, 08:20 AM
Arthur and the green knight are strong guys with swords. Splinter and Shredder are ninjas (even though they seemingly never sneak around anywhere).

Chen
2011-11-15, 08:54 AM
Ripley & Ash (Aliens vs. Predator verse) vs Smiling Jack & Divis Mal (Whitewolf) -- With high Celerity Jack probably could kill them himself. Divis Mal just makes the matchup pointless.

Rachel & David (Animorphs) vs Creed & Swarmlord (Warhammer 40k) I hear WH40K is pretty OP.

Tom Strong & Kid Miracleman (Alan Moore) vs Rhinox & Starscream (Transformers) -- Kid Miracleman again seems too absurdly powerful.

King Arthur & Green Knight (Arthurian Legend) vs Splinter & Shredder (TMNT) -- I think the mystical invincible knights are a bit more of a match for two random ninjas. The only saving grace might be Shredder since he did always have a TON of technology. I don't know what his strongest was though, so the knights keep it for now.

Aang & Koh the Facestealer (Avatar: the Last Airbender 'verse) vs T-800 & T-1000 (Terminator) -- Don't think Aang's fire is hot enough to kill the T1000. And if they have any firearms, the Avatar people are probably screwed.

Ichigo & Aizen (Bleach) vs Castiel & Lucifer (Supernatural) - Pass, don't know the universes.

Giles & Olvikan (Richard Wilkins) (Buffyverse) vs Ken Masters & Akuma (Street Fighter) -- I think the street fighters have enough power to blow up the ascended Mayor. Giles is just kind of an addon.

Rolo & Charles Vi Britannia (Code Geass) vs Luke Skywalker & Emperor Palpatine (Star Wars) -- Papatine and Luke, in the EU are absurdly powerful. I suppose if EU is not being used I would have to reconsider this one.

Kato
2011-11-15, 09:48 AM
I don't think these pairings are based much around fair fights:smalltongue:
But I like fair fights :smallsmile:



You mean excluding the countless times he fights and otherwise demonstrates his powers in the series? :smallconfused:
I mean nobody ever applied a thermometer to the fire or ice he created. We know he can freeze water. Water is frozen at 100K and at 200K and at 250K (and up to 273K, iirc. So we have no idea how cold he can make it, or how hot the fore can be since we never as fasr as I can recall saw him use high degree fire bending ( he only fought human opponents for the most part and 'cold' fire is more than enough to deal with them)


Yeah, but we're talking about quite a lot of time here, assuming the heat generated by firebending is even enough to melt the T-1000 (again, note that said machine has walked out of an actual fireball without any noticeable ill-effects).
It being a fireball doesn't mean it's extensively hot. :smallwink:


So, if Aang has >0% chance of winning then we might as well assume he'll win? Is that your point here? Because short of dropping the T-1000 into a convenient pool of lava Aang really doesn't have any real chance beyond getting extremely lucky.
No, I'm saying both teams have a chance to win, and to me none is the clear winner since I estimate their abilites more evenly even though I might be wrong. I'll stick with Aang, sorry.

[/quote]
The problem here is that your second assertion doesn't follow-on from the first. While it's true that the liquid nitrogen may not be the necessarily the minimum temperature needed (it would have pretty much the same effect on a human, after all), you can't just arbitrarily declare that the same result can be achieved by just encasing the T-1000 in ice, particularly when this isn't even fatal to humans in the Airbender verse.
[/quote]
We know very little about the T-1000 technology. He might just be vulnerable to getting short circuited under the right conditions :smalltongue: I'm too lazy to check the movie but didn't it need to be thawed to regain from the freezing? So he is basically KOd for a while?

Mr.Silver
2011-11-15, 05:54 PM
I mean nobody ever applied a thermometer to the fire or ice he created. We know he can freeze water. Water is frozen at 100K and at 200K and at 250K (and up to 273K, iirc. So we have no idea how cold he can make it,or how hot the fore can be since we never as fasr as I can recall saw him use high degree fire bending ( he only fought human opponents for the most part and 'cold' fire is more than enough to deal with them)

At no point though was anyone seriously injured by the cold of an ice attack (let alone killed by it). People also frequently take blasts of fire-bending and walk it off. Temperatures on that scale are not going to cut it against the T-1000 (which, need I remind you, is designed to be really hard to kill). Experienced benders may be able to push the temperature ranges further, but this is very seldom seen in combat (even assuming it doesn't require group of benders working as a team to push this into threatening ranges). Note that the Fire Nation still seems to use forges, which suggests that fire-bending alone isn't quite enough for melting metals.



It being a fireball doesn't mean it's extensively hot. :smallwink:
No, but fire-bending has never demonstrated being much hotter than a standard fireball.



No, I'm saying both teams have a chance to win, and to me none is the clear winner since I estimate their abilites more evenly even though I might be wrong.
What are you basing this estimation on, exactly? Because you've still yet to provide any real reason to assume that Aang, short of knocking it into a volcano, has the ability to seriously damage or defeat the machine in question. Nor any reason to assume the Terminators won't just shoot him.



We know very little about the T-1000 technology. He might just be vulnerable to getting short circuited under the right conditions :smalltongue:
We have no reason to assume this is the case though, particularly since the T-800 (who had pretty good knowledge of its capabilities) never mentioned it.



I'm too lazy to check the movie but didn't it need to be thawed to regain from the freezing? So he is basically KOd for a while?
You mean after it was doused in liquid nitrogen and then shattered into fragments? Yes.

Sunken Valley
2011-11-19, 09:07 AM
Wow, media discussion sure is full this week.

Ripley & Ash (Aliens vs. Predator verse) vs Smiling Jack & Divis Mal (Whitewolf)
Rachel & David (Animorphs) vs Creed & Swarmlord (Warhammer 40k)Tom Strong & Kid Miracleman (Alan Moore) vs Rhinox & Starscream (Transformers) I think Starscream could probably take KM down.
King Arthur & Green Knight (Arthurian Legend) vs Splinter & Shredder (TMNT)
Aang & Koh the Facestealer (Avatar: the Last Airbender 'verse) vs T-800 & T-1000 (Terminator) Oh come on, Aang could easily take down the terminators. Aang fights armies of firebenders on a regular basis. Plus I think Oozai is tougher than the two terminators. The only reason Aang's losing out is because he does'nt have a bending buddy.
Ichigo & Aizen (Bleach) vs Castiel & Lucifer (Supernatural) Those two are practically immortal
Giles & Olvikan (Richard Wilkins) (Buffyverse) vs Ken Masters & Akuma (Street Fighter)
Rolo & Charles Vi Britannia (Code Geass) vs Luke Skywalker & Emperor Palpatine (Star Wars) Palpatine would probably destroy them, but not before they take out luke. Also, is charles stronger with his immortallity or something. Because I'd say a mind-raper who took out Lulu himself is much stronger than a powerless one. Immortallity isn't all it's cracked up to be in CG because doesn't charles die? Don't watch CG though

Thank you Selrach for your bios. They are helpful to everyone.

zingbat
2011-11-19, 12:25 PM
Tom Strong & Kid Miracleman (Alan Moore) vs Rhinox & Starscream (Transformers) I think Starscream could probably take KM down.

Um... how? I honestly can't think of any way that Starscream could to anything to Kid Miracleman. KM is able to hurl around hundreds of tons without breaking a sweat, move at superspeed and is invulnerable. What is Starscream going to do, whine at him until he wants to kill himself?

Istari
2011-11-19, 01:19 PM
Palpatine (Star Wars)[/B] Palpatine would probably destroy them, but not before they take out luke. Also, is charles stronger with his immortallity or something. Because I'd say a mind-raper who took out Lulu himself is much stronger than a powerless one. Immortallity isn't all it's cracked up to be in CG because doesn't charles die? Don't watch CG though
.

Charles has two power states. One with memory modifying powers, and the other with immortality. Charles actually ended up getting erased from existence.

Forum Explorer
2011-11-19, 01:54 PM
Wow, media discussion sure is full this week.

Ripley & Ash (Aliens vs. Predator verse) vs Smiling Jack & Divis Mal (Whitewolf)
Rachel & David (Animorphs) vs Creed & Swarmlord (Warhammer 40k)Tom Strong & Kid Miracleman (Alan Moore) vs Rhinox & Starscream (Transformers) I think Starscream could probably take KM down.
King Arthur & Green Knight (Arthurian Legend) vs Splinter & Shredder (TMNT)
Aang & Koh the Facestealer (Avatar: the Last Airbender 'verse) vs T-800 & T-1000 (Terminator) Oh come on, Aang could easily take down the terminators. Aang fights armies of firebenders on a regular basis. Plus I think Oozai is tougher than the two terminators. The only reason Aang's losing out is because he does'nt have a bending buddy.
Ichigo & Aizen (Bleach) vs Castiel & Lucifer (Supernatural) Those two are practically immortal
Giles & Olvikan (Richard Wilkins) (Buffyverse) vs Ken Masters & Akuma (Street Fighter)
Rolo & Charles Vi Britannia (Code Geass) vs Luke Skywalker & Emperor Palpatine (Star Wars) Palpatine would probably destroy them, but not before they take out luke. Also, is charles stronger with his immortallity or something. Because I'd say a mind-raper who took out Lulu himself is much stronger than a powerless one. Immortallity isn't all it's cracked up to be in CG because doesn't charles die? Don't watch CG though

Thank you Selrach for your bios. They are helpful to everyone.


How is Oozai tougher then a terminator? I read his wiki entry and nothing suggested that he could take more abuse then any other human.

Also Charles does 'die' afby being erased by god. Prior to that he shot himself in the head to prove a point. Someone with similar immortality was burned at the stake and survived. Shot many times and was said to be able to be chopped up into many bits and shipped off and still survive.

Sunken Valley
2011-11-20, 09:10 AM
Results are finally in!

Smiling Jack & Divis Mal (Whitewolf) 4-1 80%
Creed & Swarmlord (Warhammer 40k) 9-0 100%
Tom Strong & Kid Miracleman (Alan Moore) 5-3 62.5%
King Arthur & Green Knight (Arthurian Legend) 8-3 72.7%
tie
tie
Giles & Olvikan (Richard Wilkins) (Buffyverse) vs Ken Masters & Akuma (Street Fighter) 3-1 75%
Rolo & Charles Vi Britannia (Code Geass) 6-5 54.5%

Next set!

Round 1 week 2 of 4

Roland & Randall Flagg (Dark Tower) vs Data & Khan (Star Trek)
Martian Manhunter & Doomsday (DC Universe) vs Jack O’Neil & Ba’al (Star Gate)
Alphamon & D-Reaper (Digimon) vs Siegfried & Astaroth (Soul Caliber)
Cohen the Barbarian & Mr White (Discworld) vs Sonic & Dr Eggman (Sonic)
Genie & Maleficent (Disney Animated Canon) vs John Snow & Jaime Lannister (Song of Ice and Fire)
Jack Harkness & Dalek (Doctor Who) vs Jill Valentine & Albert Wesker (Resident Evil)
Dr McNinja & Dracula (Dr McNinja) vs Articuno & Mewtwo (Pokemon)
Morrigan & Flemeth (Dragon Age) vs Jack Sparrow & Davy Jones

Tiebreakers
Aang & Koh the Facestealer (Avatar: the Last Airbender 'verse) vs T-800 & T-1000 (Terminator)
Ichigo & Aizen (Bleach) vs Castiel & Lucifer (Supernatural)

Votes due 27th November @9:00am. Please vote and debate.

Kato
2011-11-20, 09:24 AM
Two ties on the first round, wow.

Passes on all thngs I don't vote for due to lacking knowledge (duh)

Martian Manhunter & Doomsday (DC Universe) vs Jack O’Neil & Ba’al (Star Gate) - Okay, I know little on DC but... I'm afraid Stargate cre is overpowered here.
Cohen the Barbarian & Mr White (Discworld) vs Sonic & Dr Eggman (Sonic) - Hm... I think both Sonix characters just can't stand up to Cohen. White is unneeded.
Genie & Maleficent (Disney Animated Canon) vs John Snow & Jaime Lannister (Song of Ice and Fire) - Aw man, what a tag team ASOIAF brings up. But against magic power on such a level... I don't see themw inning. Too bad.
Jack Harkness & Dalek (Doctor Who) vs Jill Valentine & Albert Wesker (Resident Evil) - Easy. Jack 'dsitracts' Jill while the Dalek kills anything that is not a Dalek/immortal.
Morrigan & Flemeth (Dragon Age) vs Jack Sparrow & Davy Jones - Much more magic power on DA's side... EVen if Jack could trick Morrigan I don't see him winning Flemeth over in any way.

Selrahc
2011-11-20, 09:42 AM
Roland & Randall Flagg (Dark Tower) vs Data & Khan (Star Trek)

Dark Tower
Flagg is a powerful sorceror. Roland is an incredible gunfighter with magical superguns. Star Trek is overmatched. It's certainly arguable. Data and Khan are both impressive, but I would have to give the edge to the Gunslinger and his foe.



Martian Manhunter & Doomsday (DC Universe) vs Jack O’Neil & Ba’al (Star Gate)

DC universe
This should be an easy win for DC. Two incredibly powerful fighters, against two people closer to human than anything.



Alphamon & D-Reaper (Digimon) vs Siegfried & Astaroth (Soul Caliber)

I'm fairly sure Digimon has the edge. Astaroth is a powerful golem with a big axe. Siegfried is a skilled and strong knight wielding a magical weapon. Digimon is a step beyond them in the power scale.


Cohen the Barbarian & Mr White (Discworld) vs Sonic & Dr Eggman (Sonic)

I'm really disappointed in the Discworld crop. Mr White in particular.. has no powers, skills or abilities at all. He is an absolutely average human, recently incarnated and thus with no real skills. In fact I'd argue that he falls under "Too Weak".

Cohen is competent enough, and he'll bring in all the "Hero Code" discussion that might net some victories.. but at the end of the day he is an 80+ year old human with non-magical weaponry. Even with the backing of the lady herself, I can't see him logically winning many matches. Particularly against other heroes.

Given Granny(Esme) Weatherwax and one of the more powerful villains, Discworld could have been a real contender. As it is, I think it's honestly a tossup as to whether the not exactly exceptional Sonic-Verse will win. Mr White brings nothing, and while Cohen could beat the villainous Robotnik easily enough, he'd have a harder time against the super fast speedball.


Genie & Maleficent (Disney Animated Canon) vs John Snow & Jaime Lannister (Song of Ice and Fire)

Hum. Genie? Really? I suppose the obvious interpretation is that Maleficent is his master, and defeating her wins it for the team. Which I can kind of see some teams doing...

Disney definitely wins this one though. The powerful sorceress capable of turning into a dragon has great odds even without a nigh-omnipotent magical spirit for backup.


Jack Harkness & Dalek (Doctor Who) vs Jill Valentine & Albert Wesker (Resident Evil)

Doctor Who has an immortal skilled guy with a gun, and an almost unkillable engine of destruction. Resident Evil has 2 skilled people with guns.



Dr McNinja & Dracula (Dr McNinja) vs Articuno & Mewtwo (Pokemon)

Pokemon wins. Round 1 at least. I'm sure McNinja would rebound from his defeat and come back and win later...


Morrigan & Flemeth (Dragon Age) vs Jack Sparrow & Davy Jones

Well I don't know much about Dragon Age, but I know who Flemeth is. So I'm voting for the powerful dragon lady witch, to beat the squid man and the pirate. Dragon Age

Istari
2011-11-20, 09:48 AM
Genie & Maleficent (Disney Animated Canon) vs John Snow & Jaime Lannister (Song of Ice and Fire)
Jack Harkness & Dalek (Doctor Who) vs Jill Valentine & Albert Wesker (Resident Evil)
Dr McNinja & Dracula (Dr McNinja) vs Articuno & Mewtwo (Pokemon)
Morrigan & Flemeth (Dragon Age) vs Jack Sparrow & Davy Jones

Mr.Silver
2011-11-20, 10:40 AM
-Roland & Randall Flagg (Dark Tower) vs Data & Khan (Star Trek) [/
I only have a fairly basic knowledge about these guys (save Khan) but I'm inclined to give it to the magical guys who can cross dimensions.

- Martian Manhunter & Doomsday (DC Universe) vs Jack O’Neil & Ba’al (Star Gate)
I know nothing about Stargate so pass. I'd be surprised if either of the Star Gate guys could take Doomsday though.

-Alphamon & D-Reaper (Digimon) vs Siegfried & Astaroth (Soul Caliber)
Pass.


- Cohen the Barbarian & Mr White (Discworld) vs Sonic & Dr Eggman (Sonic)
Depending on whether The Last Hero is canon, it may not be mortally possible to kill Cohen at all. Mr White is largely a non-factor (save possibly as a human shield) but Sonic isn't particularly known for lethal force, whereas Cohen definitely is. He's also genre-savvy enough to exploit the Hedghog's tendency to show-off and stop to make taunts. Eggman may be able to beat him, depending on what robots he brings, but if he can survive the Dr's initial attacks I doubt he'll struggle to exploit the inevitable weakpoints in Eggman's creations. I could definitely be persuaded otherwise though.


- Genie & Maleficent (Disney Animated Canon) vs John Snow & Jaime Lannister (Song of Ice and Fire)
The Disney side consists of a nigh-omnipotent magical spirit and a powerful sorceress. Curbstomp is not a strong enough term to describe how one-sided this is.

- Jack Harkness & Dalek (Doctor Who) vs Jill Valentine & Albert Wesker (Resident Evil)
Jack is immortal and Dalek's are so well armoured that they might as well be as far as team RE is concerned. The only real question here is whether Jack manages to seduce either of the opposing side before the Dalek kills them.


- Dr McNinja & Dracula (Dr McNinja) vs Articuno & Mewtwo (Pokemon)
Pass.

- Morrigan & Flemeth (Dragon Age) vs Jack Sparrow & Davy Jones
If Jones gets his ship and the Kraken, then maybe the POTC side could do it. Otherwise, I'm going for the two powerful witches, one of whom is also a dragon.



Tiebreakers
Aang & Koh the Facestealer (Avatar: the Last Airbender 'verse) vs T-800 & T-1000 (Terminator)

:smallconfused:
Have people just never seen Terminator 2 or something? Or is Aang just benefiting from the Fanboy Shield?

comicshorse
2011-11-20, 11:55 AM
Martian Manhunter & Doomsday (DC Universe) vs Jack O’Neil & Ba’al (Star Gate) - Okay, I know little on DC but... I'm afraid Stargate cre is overpowered here.


The Martian Manhunter has Superman level strength and toughness plus heat vision and super breath. He's also a very powerful telelpath. Does have a weakness to fire.
Doomsday is a nearly mindless engine of destruction. Beat Superman to death on their first encounter as well taking out the entire Justice League.
The Stargate guys are toast

Forum Explorer
2011-11-20, 02:13 PM
Round 1 week 2 of 4

Roland & Randall Flagg (Dark Tower) vs Data & Khan (Star Trek) those are some really powerful phasers and Data is really really tough
Martian Manhunter & Doomsday (DC Universe) vs Jack O’Neil & Ba’al (Star Gate) I don't think they could take down doomsday but I bet they could handle the Martian
Alphamon & D-Reaper (Digimon) vs Siegfried & Astaroth (Soul Caliber) Well if you count their most powerful as when they have soul edge then they are both immortal butchers who drain the souls of those who oppose them.
Cohen the Barbarian & Mr White (Discworld) vs Sonic & Dr Eggman (Sonic)
Genie & Maleficent (Disney Animated Canon) vs John Snow & Jaime Lannister (Song of Ice and Fire) Maleficent went down to an ordinary knight while I don't think Genie is actually capable of killing someone else and can be taken down by picking up his lamp.
Jack Harkness & Dalek (Doctor Who) vs Jill Valentine & Albert Wesker (Resident Evil) Jill Valentine is a fearless cop who is a crack shot and recently was genetically warped to be superhuman. Wesker is even better as he can flipping teleport and can take baths in molten lava.Okay they can't do anything about Jack really
Dr McNinja & Dracula (Dr McNinja) vs Articuno & Mewtwo (Pokemon)
Morrigan & Flemeth (Dragon Age) vs Jack Sparrow & Davy Jones

Aang & Koh the Facestealer (Avatar: the Last Airbender 'verse) vs T-800 & T-1000 (Terminator)
Ichigo & Aizen (Bleach) vs Castiel & Lucifer (Supernatural)

I'm surprised on the these ties. So who is Castiel and Lucifer anyways?

Mr.Silver
2011-11-20, 02:59 PM
Maleficent went down to an ordinary knight while I don't think Genie is actually capable of killing someone else and can be taken down by picking up his lamp.
An ordinary knight armed with a magic sword and a magic shield each specifically enchanted to counter her powers. Genie doesn't need to kill anyone, he can just take their weapons away, turn them into monkeys, teleport them to another continent or do pretty much anything else you can think of all before they get close enough to do make a grab for the lamp. The lamp which is being guarded by the powerful sorceress who can turn into a dragon at will. A teenager and a warrior aren't going to cut it here.


Jill Valentine is a fearless cop who is a crack shot and recently was genetically warped to be superhuman. Wesker is even better as he can flipping teleport and can take baths in molten lava.
Daleks are essentially invulnerable to earth tech weaponry and their own weapons are pretty much a one-hit kill regardless of where they hit. They can also fly. Wesker might conceivably take more than one shot to bring down (if we're being generous) but he will be brought down eventually. Jack probably has Jill matched in accuracy (and definitely in terms of fearlessness) plus he can get up again after being killed.

My prediction would be Wesker attempts to beat-on the Dalek and while he's failing to win that, Jack and Jill - after some initial sparring, which may involve Jack getting 'killed' then standing up again - slip-away to resolve their inevitable sexual tension. Wesker eventually bites it, at which point Jill has the choice of either getting exterminated by an angry Dalek or electing to surrender. Either way, a net win for team DW


Morrigan & Flemeth (Dragon Age) vs Jack Sparrow & Davy Jones
Please explain this. Morrigan alone has enough magic to paralyse/freeze/electrocute/put to seep/stun/generally incapacitate multiple enemies and can magically heal herself (including via life-drain). Flemeth can turn into a giant flying fire-breathing lizard at will (and presumably do a fair bit of the above). Your typical pistol of that time period was good for about one shot (which would at most annoy a dragon). Even if we grant Jones immortality due to his heart, it will take little to no effort on team DA's part to incapacitate him.

comicshorse
2011-11-20, 03:20 PM
[QUOTE=Forum Explorer;12250259
I'm surprised on the these ties. So who is Castiel and Lucifer anyways?[/QUOTE]

From the 'Supernatural' TV series. Lucifer is Lucifer, first of the fallen, lord of hell, the Adversary, the Serpent, etc
Castiel was an arch-angel he may have recently become god

And seconding Mr Silvers comments on Jack and the Dalek and the genie and Maleficient

Top cat
2011-11-20, 03:29 PM
Roland & Randall Flagg (Dark Tower) vs Data & Khan (Star Trek)
Martian Manhunter & Doomsday (DC Universe) vs Jack O’Neil & Ba’al (Star Gate)
Alphamon & D-Reaper (Digimon) vs Siegfried & Astaroth (Soul Caliber)
Cohen the Barbarian & Mr White (Discworld) vs Sonic & Dr Eggman (Sonic)
Genie & Maleficent (Disney Animated Canon) vs John Snow & Jaime Lannister (Song of Ice and Fire)
Jack Harkness & Dalek (Doctor Who) vs Jill Valentine & Albert Wesker (Resident Evil)
Dr McNinja & Dracula (Dr McNinja) vs Articuno & Mewtwo (Pokemon)
Morrigan & Flemeth (Dragon Age) vs Jack Sparrow & Davy Jones

Forum Explorer
2011-11-20, 04:09 PM
An ordinary knight armed with a magic sword and a magic shield each specifically enchanted to counter her powers. Genie doesn't need to kill anyone, he can just take their weapons away, turn them into monkeys, teleport them to another continent or do pretty much anything else you can think of all before they get close enough to do make a grab for the lamp. The lamp which is being guarded by the powerful sorceress who can turn into a dragon at will. A teenager and a warrior aren't going to cut it here.


Daleks are essentially invulnerable to earth tech weaponry and their own weapons are pretty much a one-hit kill regardless of where they hit. They can also fly. Wesker might conceivably take more than one shot to bring down (if we're being generous) but he will be brought down eventually. Jack probably has Jill matched in accuracy (and definitely in terms of fearlessness) plus he can get up again after being killed.

My prediction would be Wesker attempts to beat-on the Dalek and while he's failing to win that, Jack and Jill - after some initial sparring, which may involve Jack getting 'killed' then standing up again - slip-away to resolve their inevitable sexual tension. Wesker eventually bites it, at which point Jill has the choice of either getting exterminated by an angry Dalek or electing to surrender. Either way, a net win for team DW

Please explain this. Morrigan alone has enough magic to paralyse/freeze/electrocute/put to seep/stun/generally incapacitate multiple enemies and can magically heal herself (including via life-drain). Flemeth can turn into a giant flying fire-breathing lizard at will (and presumably do a fair bit of the above). Your typical pistol of that time period was good for about one shot (which would at most annoy a dragon). Even if we grant Jones immortality due to his heart, it will take little to no effort on team DA's part to incapacitate him.

Because the two of them are both highly skilled swordsman and tactictians as well as they get Jon's Dire Wolf. Plus Maelficant suffers from Diesny Villan Syndrome (considering she's a deisny villian :smalltongue:) One or both of them can distract the dragon even killing her with cleverness while the wolf snags the lamp which takes out genie. At the same time Jamine just out talks genie who won't act really without orders which Maelficant can't give in dragon form. Sure its definatly not a sure thing but I just feel that Jamie and Jon would win more often then not

Daleks are immune to our Earth's weaponry. Wesker carries around some nasty bioweapons that can transform any human into a ravening monster. Not sure who Jack is but he could easily end up infected and attacking the Dalek.

Ok the last one is just for fun. Though actually depending on the latest movie Jack might be able to win this with Davy Jones help. Plus he can summon the Kraken.

Istari
2011-11-20, 04:13 PM
Genie doesn't have any magic lamp vulnerability though. At his most powerful, he was freed by Aladdin, so good luck dealing with him without that weakness.

comicshorse
2011-11-20, 04:30 PM
Daleks are immune to our Earth's weaponry. Wesker carries around some nasty bioweapons that can transform any human into a ravening monster. Not sure who Jack is but he could easily end up infected and attacking the Dalek.


Not sure bioweapons that affect humans would have any effect on a Dalek's alien DNA and that's assuming there armour isn't protected against such attacks.
The nature of Jack's curse would probably eliminate such attacks in short order.

Forum Explorer
2011-11-20, 04:38 PM
Genie doesn't have any magic lamp vulnerability though. At his most powerful, he was freed by Aladdin, so good luck dealing with him without that weakness.

He lost a lot of his power when he was freed (still incredibly powerful though) so while he might be more effective as a free genie he was more powerful as a slave to the lamp.

As for Jack all I could find on his abilities is that he would come back from the dead every time he died. Since the ooberu virus doesn't actually kill its victems it should work on him. The transformation would enable Jack and compel him to kill his Darlek companion who would admitally would be pretty hard to infect. Still Wesker and Jill are capable of shooting that eye stalk to blind the Darlek and putting their fight in an abandoned mansion (the one from the first game but zombie free) would give them plenty of hiding places to avoid the Darlek.

Selrahc
2011-11-20, 04:50 PM
On the digimon thing. The two in question are two I don't know. But I do know the Soul Caliber characters. They're mildly superhuman, have nice weapons, and are skilled. Just reading the wiki page for the digimon characters shows how outclassed they are. D-reaper is the size of a city, and Alphamon is some sort of 30 foot tall god, who does some sort of timefreeze/infinite attacks thing.(honestly, the page was unclear). How are the Soul Caliber characters going to fight that?




Genie doesn't have any magic lamp vulnerability though. At his most powerful, he was freed by Aladdin, so good luck dealing with him without that weakness.

He was much "weaker" when released from the lamp. As amply demonstrated by Jafar. Although really, without that weakness he doesn't belong in the contest at all, being just as unbeatable as the likes of Dream and Manhattan.


Roland & Randall Flagg (Dark Tower) vs Data & Khan (Star Trek) those are some really powerful phasers and Data is really really tough

Roland's (magical) heavy calibre guns blast robots apart with ease. Data's toughness is irrelevant.

What matters is speed, skill and combat awareness. Roland has all the other fighters beaten in that. And Flagg isn't really playing the same game at all.

comicshorse
2011-11-20, 04:59 PM
As for Jack all I could find on his abilities is that he would come back from the dead every time he died. Since the ooberu virus doesn't actually kill its victems it should work on him. The transformation would enable Jack and compel him to kill his Darlek companion who would admitally would be pretty hard to infect. Still Wesker and Jill are capable of shooting that eye stalk to blind the Darlek and putting their fight in an abandoned mansion (the one from the first game but zombie free) would give them plenty of hiding places to avoid the Darlek.

Not exactly. Jack is a 'fixed point in time', meaning he will always return to the form he had when he was cursed. While this most often manifests as returning to life, any other major changes will also vanish as he resumes the fotm he had when we was cursed.
Also Daleks figured out their eye-stalks were vulnerable, so they use force-fields too

Forum Explorer
2011-11-20, 05:01 PM
Not exactly. Jack is a 'fixed point in time', meaning he will always return to the form he had when he was cursed. While this most often manifests as returning to life, any other major changes will also vanish as he resumes the fotm he had when we was cursed.
Also Daleks figured out their eye-stalks were vulnerable, so they use force-fields too

when does he return to that fixed point? Also on an unrelatted point what's a good episode to start watching Doctor Who?

comicshorse
2011-11-20, 05:14 PM
when does he return to that fixed point? Also on an unrelatted point what's a good episode to start watching Doctor Who?

Usually only requires a few seconds for him to recover.


On your other question, Dr Who is usually broken down into Old and Nu Who.
It originally ran from 1963-1989 ( this is old Who). Old Who was of its time and so is considered a little slow and with terrible special effects. Its best to only return to this if you like the modern stuff.

Nu Who started with a new first series in 2005 with a new doctor.
I recommend either starting with the first series of the Nu Who with Christopher Ecclestone as the Doctor. The first episode is 'Rose'
Or there has recently been a new Doctor. Matt Smith started with series Five. First epsiode is 'The Eleventh Hour'. This will give you a reasonably up-to-date and modern start on Who

(Don't worry about continuity as may be expected from a programme about a time traveller continuity changes fairly often)

Mr.Silver
2011-11-20, 05:52 PM
Because the two of them are both highly skilled swordsman[ and tactictians as well as they get Jon's Dire Wolf.
Even if they did get the wolf (which is debatable given the rules), all of these are pretty much worthless when facing a being who can have them all in straight-jackets, shackled and locked in a cage with literally a snap of his fingers. Which they are, because they're facing the genie who can do all that and basically anything else you can think of. John and Jaime will only be in this fight until Maleficent tells the Genie to deal with them which will probably be around ten seconds at most, assuming the genie's going to be awkward about it. Maleficent's powers barely even matter here, as the Genie is basically a win button on his own.



Plus Maelficant suffers from Disney Villan Syndrome (considering she's a disney villian :smalltongue:)
Define Disney villain syndrome. I would also point out that Maleficent is notable for being a hell of a lot more effective than most other Disney Villains.


One or both of them can distract the dragon even killing her with cleverness
No. Again, she only got killed when confronted with magic items that were made with the specific purpose of defeating her. The same warrior had tried earlier with normal equipment and got his arse handed to him without her even resorting to dragon form.


while the wolf snags the lamp which takes out genie.
The same Genie who's already out and about when this fight starts, who can end this entire fight basically whenever he feels like it.


At the same time Jamine just out talks genie who won't act really without orders which Maelficant can't give in dragon form.
She's not starting off as a dragon. She will only adopt that form if she feels she needs to, which she won't because she has the bloody Genie.



Sure its definatly not a sure thing
Understatement of the year.


but I just feel that Jamie and Jon would win more often then not
Based on what? Wishful thinking?



Daleks are immune to our Earth's weaponry.
No, they're immune to the Whoniverse Earth's weaponry, which contains rather more sci-fi goodness than ours. And they have proven ludicrously resilient to the far more advanced weapons of that verse's other alien races. And again, a single hit from their weapons is typically enough to kill any normal sized life-form stone dead.


Wesker carries around some nasty bioweapons that can transform any human into a ravening monster. Not sure who Jack is but he could easily end up infected and attacking the Dalek.
Jack can't take down a Dalek either, so even if they did manage this it wouldn't make any real difference.


Ok the last one is just for fun. Though actually depending on the latest movie Jack might be able to win this with Davy Jones help.
... How? Besides getting off two really, really, lucky shots I don't see a way they can pull this off.


Plus he can summon the Kraken.
Not here he can't. To quote the OP:


All characters are at their most powerful (unassisted and non-omnipotent level). They do not get any one-shot power boosts. Ever. They do not get to bring allies with them

Forum Explorer
2011-11-20, 06:29 PM
I consider things like the Kraken and Jon's wolf to be biological equipment. The Kraken because it can only be summoned and controlled by Jones and Jon's wolf because he can possess it and direct its actions.

I also said depending on the latest movie because I think Jack is looking for immortality in that movie and he might get it in which case we have two immortal fighters who will eventrually win due to attrition. Or perhaps he finds some crazy artifact, I don't know I haven't seen that movie

Disney Villan Syndrome: Playing around with their opponents, monologing, being very reactive to the hero, sending ineffective opponents out to fight, ignoring a supposedly defeated opponent and basically violating 95% of the evil overlord's list.

Mr.Silver
2011-11-20, 07:22 PM
I consider things like the Kraken and Jon's wolf to be biological equipment. The Kraken because it can only be summoned and controlled by Jones and Jon's wolf because he can possess it and direct its actions.
Jon's wolf I'd maybe allow (and it wouldn't make any difference either way, Jon and Jaime are still utterly screwed), but the Kraken is pushing it. Even if we were to allow the Kraken though, and even if the fight was taking place, say, in a port or harbour where it could actually be useful, the Kraken has no ranged attacks, while all Morrigan's spells are ranged and Flemeth can fly.


I also said depending on the latest movie because I think Jack is looking for immortality in that movie and he might get it in which case we have two immortal fighters who will eventrually win due to attrition.
Jack isn't immortal by the end of stranger tides. Note also that if team DA can simply render Jones a none threat (which they can) it counts as a win under the rules.


Or perhaps he finds some crazy artifact, I don't know I haven't seen that movie
Evidently, because he doesn't.


Disney Villan Syndrome: Playing around with their opponents, monologing, being very reactive to the hero, sending ineffective opponents out to fight, ignoring a supposedly defeated opponent and basically violating 95% of the evil overlord's list.
Pretty much none-factors in a straight fight like this then. Particularly when she has the genie who, as previously mentioned, can end this fight in a matter of seconds.

Lord Loss
2011-11-20, 09:04 PM
Roland & Randall Flagg (Dark Tower) vs Data & Khan (Star Trek)
Martian Manhunter & Doomsday (DC Universe) vs Jack O’Neil & Ba’al (Star Gate)
Alphamon & D-Reaper (Digimon) vs Siegfried & Astaroth (Soul Caliber)
Cohen the Barbarian & Mr White (Discworld) vs Sonic & Dr Eggman (Sonic)
Genie & Maleficent (Disney Animated Canon) vs John Snow & Jaime Lannister (Song of Ice and Fire)
Jack Harkness & Dalek (Doctor Who) vs Jill Valentine & Albert Wesker (Resident Evil)
Dr McNinja & Dracula (Dr McNinja) vs Articuno & Mewtwo (Pokemon)
Morrigan & Flemeth (Dragon Age) vs Jack Sparrow & Davy Jones

Tiebreakers
Aang & Koh the Facestealer (Avatar: the Last Airbender 'verse) vs T-800 & T-1000 (Terminator)
Ichigo & Aizen (Bleach) vs Castiel & Lucifer (Supernatural)

Selrahc
2011-11-21, 03:49 AM
Since it's currently a landslide in favour of the Soul Caliber people, would someone care to explain to me how two near humans are going to kill this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7c/Mother_D-Reaper_t.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d7/D-Reaper_t.jpg
That is a creature literally the size of a city, that washes away skyscrapers just by moving. What are Astaroth and Siegfried logically going to be able to do? How do you even conceive that they would win? It seems to me that the two fighters just operate on a vastly lesser scale.

Forum Explorer
2011-11-21, 06:26 AM
well Astaroth at his strongest destroys the entire world as becomes the god of War.

zingbat
2011-11-21, 07:25 AM
He was much "weaker" when released from the lamp. As amply demonstrated by Jafar. Although really, without that weakness he doesn't belong in the contest at all, being just as unbeatable as the likes of Dream and Manhattan.

Yeah, I don't see how we can have Genie in this without the lamp as a weakness. He only has three limitations on his powers: can't kill, can't make people fall in love, and can't bring the dead back to life. Without the lamp, he would be unstoppable, even with his somewhat diminished powers.

zingbat
2011-11-21, 07:38 AM
Roland & Randall Flagg (Dark Tower) vs Data & Khan (Star Trek) -- Not familiar with the Dark Tower, and Wikipedia wasn't very helpful as far as abilities go. Voting Star Trek for now. How well can these two stand up to phaser blasts from an android and a genetically engineered super-soldier?

Martian Manhunter & Doomsday (DC Universe) vs Jack O’Neil & Ba’al (Star Gate) -- No contest. Poor Stargate...

Alphamon & D-Reaper (Digimon) vs Siegfried & Astaroth (Soul Caliber) -- pass

Cohen the Barbarian & Mr White (Discworld) vs Sonic & Dr Eggman (Sonic)

Genie & Maleficent (Disney Animated Canon) vs John Snow & Jaime Lannister (Song of Ice and Fire)

Jack Harkness & Dalek (Doctor Who) vs Jill Valentine & Albert Wesker (Resident Evil)

Dr McNinja & Dracula (Dr McNinja) vs Articuno & Mewtwo (Pokemon) -- pass

Morrigan & Flemeth (Dragon Age) vs Jack Sparrow & Davy Jones -- pass

zingbat
2011-11-21, 07:41 AM
Cohen is competent enough, and he'll bring in all the "Hero Code" discussion that might net some victories.. but at the end of the day he is an 80+ year old human with non-magical weaponry. Even with the backing of the lady herself, I can't see him logically winning many matches. Particularly against other heroes.


I think Cohen would have to be younger, given the stipulation that he must be at his most powerful.

Top cat
2011-11-21, 07:45 AM
That is a creature literally the size of a city, that washes away skyscrapers just by moving. What are Astaroth and Siegfried logically going to be able to do? How do you even conceive that they would win? It seems to me that the two fighters just operate on a vastly lesser scale.
Eh, I'll be honest. I just really, really don't like digimon. Even if the digimon would most likely win, it's like. No. Go away digimon. <_<

zingbat
2011-11-21, 07:50 AM
when does he return to that fixed point?

It seems to depend on a combination of how much damage he has sustained and the needs of the plot. Normally, though, it only takes a minute if he hasn't been blown up or burnt to a crisp.


Also on an unrelatted point what's a good episode to start watching Doctor Who?

These days I recommend starting with season five of NuWho. This is the start of the current Doctor's run, played by Matt Smith. Whenever we get a new version of the Doctor, we also usually get a new context and story arc, so it's a good place for new watchers to jump in. Once you catch up on seasons five and six, you can swing back to season one of NuWho and work your way up.

zingbat
2011-11-21, 08:04 AM
Disney Villan Syndrome: Playing around with their opponents, monologing, being very reactive to the hero, sending ineffective opponents out to fight, ignoring a supposedly defeated opponent and basically violating 95% of the evil overlord's list.

Maleficent isn't a typical Disney villain. No monologuing, no cat and mouse, and ready and able to kill. She's badass, and she scared the crap out of me when I first saw Sleeping Beauty as a kid. She was only taken down by Generic Handsome Prince because he was helped by three powerful (if more typically Disney-fied) fairies and magical weapons specifically made to destroy M. I'd argue she could possibly win this one on her own.

But there's also Genie. I think he's too powerful according to the rules, but here he is. As long as M. is able to protect the lamp, these two may win this thing.

zingbat
2011-11-21, 08:10 AM
Eh, I'll be honest. I just really, really don't like digimon. Even if the digimon would most likely win, it's like. No. Go away digimon. <_<

I know what you mean. I have an irrational hatred of Goku from Dragon Ball. I always want to vote against him, even though he should usually win. I feel the same way about anything-mon, to a lesser extent.

Prime32
2011-11-21, 09:03 AM
Roland & Randall Flagg (Dark Tower) vs Data & Khan (Star Trek)

Martian Manhunter & Doomsday (DC Universe) vs Jack O’Neil & Ba’al (Star Gate)The DC guys are both Superman-level. 'nuff said.

Alphamon & D-Reaper (Digimon) vs Siegfried & Astaroth (Soul Caliber)Ridiculously one-sided in Digimon's favor. Not only is D-Reaper (http://digimon.wikia.com/wiki/D-Reaper) an evolving blob monster the size of a city, Alphamon (http://digimon.wikia.com/wiki/Alphamon) can fly and create energy blasts large enough to fill the sky.

Cohen the Barbarian & Mr White (Discworld) vs Sonic & Dr Eggman (Sonic)

Genie & Maleficent (Disney Animated Canon) vs John Snow & Jaime Lannister (Song of Ice and Fire)

Jack Harkness & Dalek (Doctor Who) vs Jill Valentine & Albert Wesker (Resident Evil)

Dr McNinja & Dracula (Dr McNinja) vs Articuno & Mewtwo (Pokemon)Since Dracula doesn't have his moon laser, the Pokémon just outclass them.

Morrigan & Flemeth (Dragon Age) vs Jack Sparrow & Davy Jones

Selrahc
2011-11-21, 09:04 AM
How well can these two stand up to phaser blasts from an android and a genetically engineered super-soldier?


They can't. Or at least, Roland can't. Flagg might have a magical shield prepared. Both Khan and Data are much stronger and tougher than the Gunslinger and his friend. However, I would argue that physical strength and toughness doesn't matter much in this contest. What matters, is gun skill.

Roland's revolvers are made from Excalibur, they fire heavy calibre bullets and on multiple cases in the novels, he goes up against robots who are pulped to bits with no difficulty. Data and Khan aren't tough enough to escape being shot into bits.

Roland is locked into a cycle. An eternal quest for the tower that leads back to it's beginning, devouring itself like an Ouroboros. Over countless iterations he has followed through his journey. His skill is legendary, his speed is incredible, his knowledge of combat is immense. His sense of self as anything other than a machine for the quest fades away, but he pushes onwards. Everything not essential is washed away in the quest, while the things that he needs are honed to perfection.

Randall Flagg is much more of an enigma. He is the eternal enemy to Roland, putting obstacles in his well trod path to the tower. He has very ill defined abilities, but they definitely include protective magic, and magic that can harm, he has been responsible for world ending plagues before. His chief role though seems to be to exacerbate wedges between groups. To break up unity and replace it with discord.

Data is quick. Khan is determined. Neither one of them has the sheer single minded dedication to their task that Roland has. Data barely cares about combat, while Khan is more concerned with power than victory.

I'm sure Roland and Flagg will eventually go out to somebody who can tank their damage with ease, or dodge bullets... But I do not see them losing in what amounts to a straight up gunfight.



well Astaroth at his strongest destroys the entire world as becomes the god of War.

Yeah? Can you explain?


I think Cohen would have to be younger, given the stipulation that he must be at his most powerful.

I think there are two main problems with that.
1. We never see Cohen when he is younger. Estimating abilities we have never seen demonstrated does not seem like a good imposition to place on a character if it can be avoided.
2. In the stories, it is pretty clear that Cohen is still very much in his prime. The ageing experience has "Left him hard, like old oak" as it is put. The experience outweighs the physical limitations.

Chen
2011-11-21, 10:20 AM
Roland & Randall Flagg (Dark Tower) vs Data & Khan (Star Trek) - Pass. Dark Tower powers are not well enough explained on wikipedia.

Martian Manhunter & Doomsday (DC Universe) vs Jack O’Neil & Ba’al (Star Gate) - Uh yeah, poor Jack and Ba'al, no chance here

Alphamon & D-Reaper (Digimon) vs Siegfried & Astaroth (Soul Caliber) - Pass, don't know either universe

Cohen the Barbarian & Mr White (Discworld) vs Sonic & Dr Eggman (Sonic) - Pass, don't know either universe

Genie & Maleficent (Disney Animated Canon) vs John Snow & Jaime Lannister (Song of Ice and Fire) - Like the DC one, its funny how overmatched the Song of Ice and Fire people are here.

Jack Harkness & Dalek (Doctor Who) vs Jill Valentine & Albert Wesker (Resident Evil) - Dalek's are too durable to lose this one I'd say.

Dr McNinja & Dracula (Dr McNinja) vs Articuno & Mewtwo (Pokemon) - Pass, don't know either universe

Morrigan & Flemeth (Dragon Age) vs Jack Sparrow & Davy Jones - The third horribly overmatched set this time around. Magic users beat pirates, even if one is squid pirate. Hell give them the Kraken and I'd still put odds on the two witches (one of whom is a Dragon).

Forum Explorer
2011-11-21, 02:48 PM
Ok since Jack almost instantly regens from anything I've got to give it to his team over Wesker. A shame I really like Wesker.



Maleficent does fall victiem to the syndrome just not as bad as most of them. She just throws obstacles at the prince instead of just killing him right away, plus she gets obsessed with vengence and doesn't take care to protect herself from the three fairies who oppose her. Actually she might have better odds without Genie because if either of them can get to the lamp they can and will shut her down while she won't instant kill them or try to till the end.

Istari
2011-11-21, 03:13 PM
Ok since Jack almost instantly regens from anything I've got to give it to his team over Wesker. A shame I really like Wesker.



Maleficent does fall victiem to the syndrome just not as bad as most of them. She just throws obstacles at the prince instead of just killing him right away, plus she gets obsessed with vengence and doesn't take care to protect herself from the three fairies who oppose her. Actually she might have better odds without Genie because if either of them can get to the lamp they can and will shut her down while she won't instant kill them or try to till the end.

While its mostly irrelevant at present, if they know to get to the lamp, and they know to make wishes with the lamp (difficult while you have a dragon on top of you), since genie is still on the same side, he can probably pull a literal genie on them to nullify many of the wishes they make.

Forum Explorer
2011-11-21, 03:20 PM
Yeah? Can you explain?
.

Astaroth and Siegfried are both at their strongest when they have soul edge/soul calibar unopposed.

Siedfried ends up encasing the entire world in crystal and Astaroth becomes a giant evil thing that brings about the dark ages. (Just checked the ending videos on youtube and learned that I was misrembering what exactly happened)

Prime32
2011-11-21, 04:26 PM
Siedfried ends up encasing the entire world in crystal and Astaroth becomes a giant evil thing that brings about the dark ages. (Just checked the ending videos on youtube and learned that I was misrembering what exactly happened)The "giant evil thing" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbdWck7JQ0k) is still smaller than MegaGargomon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gh3_qrQlRc), who gets overpowered (and outsized) by the D-Reaper's medium-power spawn.

Freezing the world (www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j5NGwA2vKA) seems more effective, but it's slow and the D-Reaper is "constantly evolving" so it would come up with a counter eventually. Particularly since the inside of its body follows different physical laws. And its final form generates so much heat it was said the polar ice caps would melt in days.

Chess435
2011-11-22, 03:00 PM
Roland & Randall Flagg (Dark Tower) vs Data & Khan (Star Trek)
Martian Manhunter & Doomsday (DC Universe) vs Jack O’Neil & Ba’al (Star Gate)
Alphamon & D-Reaper (Digimon) vs Siegfried & Astaroth (Soul Caliber)
Cohen the Barbarian & Mr White (Discworld) vs Sonic & Dr Eggman (Sonic)
Genie & Maleficent (Disney Animated Canon) vs John Snow & Jaime Lannister (Song of Ice and Fire) - pass
Jack Harkness & Dalek (Doctor Who) vs Jill Valentine & Albert Wesker (Resident Evil) - pass
Dr McNinja & Dracula (Dr McNinja) vs Articuno & Mewtwo (Pokemon)
Morrigan & Flemeth (Dragon Age) vs Jack Sparrow & Davy Jones -pass

Tiebreakers
Aang & Koh the Facestealer (Avatar: the Last Airbender 'verse) vs T-800 & T-1000 (Terminator)
Ichigo & Aizen (Bleach) vs Castiel & Lucifer (Supernatural)

Sunken Valley
2011-11-25, 02:53 PM
These have got to be the most unbalanced combats yet.

Roland & Randall Flagg (Dark Tower) vs Data & Khan (Star Trek) Khaaaaaaaaaaaaaan! loses.
Martian Manhunter & Doomsday (DC Universe) vs Jack O’Neil & Ba’al (Star Gate)
Alphamon & D-Reaper (Digimon) vs Siegfried & Astaroth (Soul Caliber)
Cohen the Barbarian & Mr White (Discworld) vs Sonic & Dr Eggman (Sonic) Old Cohen, because you can't vote for something unseen by the viewers.
Genie & Maleficent (Disney Animated Canon) vs John Snow & Jaime Lannister (Song of Ice and Fire) Disney wins this round but I'm going to monologue on the Genie's "power". The genie's power level is his one as a "freenie" but with the lamp weakness so he doesn't get too omnipotent. His lamp power level is n/a as he never fights in it and seems incapable of doing so (his inabillity to screw Jafar over). One important factor when concerning the genie is the name of his source. A source that spawned 3 movies and a cartoon. It's called "Aladdin". Not "Patch Manhattan". Not "Robin Williams is just that good". This is because genie rarely saves the day. Aladdin does with his wits. So the genie is not half as powerful as we think he is. A deleted song from Aladdin reveals that "Prince Ali's" procession was really insects and rats, meaning he's more like a fairy than an omnipotent. Now let's discuss Jafar "the world's most powerful genie" a paragon of the genie race. Even though he is omnipotent how does he try to defeat our heroes? In the most roundabout, ridiculous way possible which would be circuitous by bond villain standards. And who kills Jafar may I ask? A Parrot. That's right, killed by his heel face turned familiar. That's a low way to go. If Jafar ever entered the Royale, he'd be as a sorceror. Genie's are seriously overrated. But still tough.
Jack Harkness & Dalek (Doctor Who) vs Jill Valentine & Albert Wesker (Resident Evil)
Dr McNinja & Dracula (Dr McNinja) vs Articuno & Mewtwo (Pokemon) Crazy Awesome!
Morrigan & Flemeth (Dragon Age) vs Jack Sparrow & Davy Jones

Mr.Silver
2011-11-25, 06:49 PM
These have got to be the most unbalanced combats yet.

You set them up :smalltongue:



One important factor when concerning the genie is the name of his source. A source that spawned 3 movies and a cartoon. It's called "Aladdin". Not "Patch Manhattan". Not "Robin Williams is just that good". This is because genie rarely saves the day. Aladdin does with his wits. So the genie is not half as powerful as we think he is.
That last part does not follow from the preceding points.



A deleted song from Aladdin reveals that "Prince Ali's" procession was really insects and rats, meaning he's more like a fairy than an omnipotent.
A really, really, really powerful fairy. :smalltongue:


Now let's discuss Jafar "the world's most powerful genie" a paragon of the genie race. Even though he is omnipotent how does he try to defeat our heroes? In the most roundabout, ridiculous way possible which would be circuitous by bond villain standards. And who kills Jafar may I ask? A Parrot. That's right, killed by his heel face turned familiar. That's a low way to go.
These being some of the many, many, reasons everyone likes to pretend Return of Jafar never happened. Even more so than most Disney Sequels. :smalltongue:

zingbat
2011-11-26, 05:02 AM
They can't. Or at least, Roland can't. Flagg might have a magical shield prepared. Both Khan and Data are much stronger and tougher than the Gunslinger and his friend. However, I would argue that physical strength and toughness doesn't matter much in this contest. What matters, is gun skill.

OK, let's go with gun skill. It's hard to out-gun a superfast android with a targeting system and a super-soldier, both of which have energy weapons that can vaporize people. I'm not saying the Dark Tower guys can't do it, just that I'm not convinced.


Roland's revolvers are made from Excalibur, they fire heavy calibre bullets and on multiple cases in the novels, he goes up against robots who are pulped to bits with no difficulty. Data and Khan aren't tough enough to escape being shot into bits.

What kind of magic do they have? Because revolver bullets just aren't going to do it. Data can withstand sustained fire from a 22nd century assault rifle with no major damage.


Data is quick. Khan is determined. Neither one of them has the sheer single minded dedication to their task that Roland has. Data barely cares about combat, while Khan is more concerned with power than victory.

True regarding Data. His first choice is a tricorder, not a phaser. But the rules state that the combatants fight without delay, so it's going to be guns blazing from the start. And Khan cares about power and victory; why settle for just one? My vote stands... for all the good it will do. :smallbiggrin:

zingbat
2011-11-26, 05:12 AM
His lamp power level is n/a as he never fights in it and seems incapable of doing so (his inabillity to screw Jafar over). One important factor when concerning the genie is the name of his source. A source that spawned 3 movies and a cartoon. It's called "Aladdin". Not "Patch Manhattan". Not "Robin Williams is just that good". This is because genie rarely saves the day. Aladdin does with his wits. So the genie is not half as powerful as we think he is.


Genie rarely saves the day not from lack of power, but because he's dumb as a post. Once he's free from the lamp, Genie is a game-breaker. There was no good in-universe reason why Genie couldn't just snap his fingers and fix whatever the problem of the week was in the animated series. So he has to be stupid so that the show/movie isn't over in ten seconds.

Selrahc
2011-11-26, 11:20 AM
OK, let's go with gun skill. It's hard to out-gun a superfast android with a targeting system and a super-soldier, both of which have energy weapons that can vaporize people. I'm not saying the Dark Tower guys can't do it, just that I'm not convinced.


I think the evidence that Data has a particularly advanced targeting system at work is spotty. Like every other character in Star trek, he misses shots with that phaser a fair amount. I'm not saying he's a bad shot, just not a particularly noteworthy one either.

Khan.. Khan would prefer to crumple a gun into a ball (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_c1Odol9xw) just to prove his power. I don't think his gun fighting is as good as his brawling.

Roland on the other hand, is a quick shooter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6rEnEQkYaQ). We get a lot of talk in the books about him being inhumanly quick, so perhaps he is even a little quicker than the best humans we know. That was from the perspective of Eddy though, who is unlikely to be the best at judging whether something is peak human or superhuman. Throughout the entire run of the books the only time I can recall him missing was when his hand was bitten off, and he was delirious from infection. He has perfect, potentially supernatural, vision, and can hit targets right on the edge of it with perfect accuracy.

If it's a quickdraw, I could potentially *possibly* see Data outdrawing him. If terrain is involved, I think the much more experienced Roland will come to the fore. He lives for combat.


What kind of magic do they have? Because revolver bullets just aren't going to do it. Data can withstand sustained fire from a 22nd century assault rifle with no major damage.

AR bullets are generally around a .30 cal bullet. Roland carries monstrous .44 cal hand cannons with custom shells. Even if the guns weren't forged from Excalibur, they'd be a lot better at smashing through metal than any assault rifle. The "Magic" isn't specified, beyond the characters talking about how the guns are incredibly well made, easy to handle, reliable, etc. I doubt the enhancement fundamentally changes their nature. Think of them more as the platonic ideal of the revolver, than something that spews out magical wishing fire.

Given that in Wolves of the Calla they are easily capable of smashing robots to bits, I see no reason that Data would escape the same fate.



And Khan cares about power and victory; why settle for just one?

I just think Khan is much more interested in proving his might and his dominance over his opponent than maximizing his chance at victory. Which hurts his chance at victory.



My vote stands... for all the good it will do.


That's fine. I honestly do think this one is a nice even, quite debatable fight.

Viking_Mage
2011-11-26, 01:34 PM
Next set!

Round 1 week 2 of 4

Roland & Randall Flagg (Dark Tower) vs Data & Khan (Star Trek)
Martian Manhunter & Doomsday (DC Universe) vs Jack O’Neil & Ba’al (Star Gate)
Alphamon & D-Reaper (Digimon) vs Siegfried & Astaroth (Soul Caliber)
Cohen the Barbarian & Mr White (Discworld) vs Sonic & Dr Eggman (Sonic)
Genie & Maleficent (Disney Animated Canon) vs John Snow & Jaime Lannister (Song of Ice and Fire)
Jack Harkness & Dalek (Doctor Who) vs Jill Valentine & Albert Wesker (Resident Evil)
Dr McNinja & Dracula (Dr McNinja) vs Articuno & Mewtwo (Pokemon)
Morrigan & Flemeth (Dragon Age) vs Jack Sparrow & Davy Jones


Roland and Flagg
J'onn J'ones and Doomsday
pass
Sonic & Eggman
Genie & Maleficennt
Harkness and Dalek
Articuno & Mewtwo
pass

Sunken Valley
2011-11-27, 05:23 AM
Results are in!

Roland & Randall Flagg (Dark Tower) 66.6%
Martian Manhunter & Doomsday (DC Universe) 100%
Alphamon & D-Reaper (Digimon) 71.4%
Cohen the Barbarian & Mr White (Discworld) 75%
Genie & Maleficent (Disney Animated Canon) 88.8%
Jack Harkness & Dalek (Doctor Who) 100%
Articuno & Mewtwo (Pokemon) 71.4%
Morrigan & Flemeth (Dragon Age) 88.8%

Round 1-week 3 of 4
Gohan & Cooler (Dragonball) vs Percy Jackson & Luke (Percy Jackson)
Drizz’t & Mina (Dungeons and Dragons) vs V & Xykon (Order of the Stick)
Fighter & Black mage (8 bit theatre) vs Luffy & Crocodile (One Piece)
Lucy & Hades (Fairy Tail) vs Saber & Berserker (Nasuverse (Fate/stay night))
Beowulf & Basilisk (Fairytales and Folklore) vs 4th Hokage & Orochimaru (Naruto)
Sora & Sephiroth (Final Fantasy) vs Rainbow Dash & Nightmare Moon (My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic)
Freddy Kruger & Jason Vorhees vs Sub Zero & Reptile (Mortal Kombat)
Edward Elric & Scar (Full Metal Alchemist) vs Samus & Dark Samus (Metroid)

Votes due December 4 @9:00am. Please vote and debate.

Forum Explorer
2011-11-27, 06:00 AM
this looks like a fun week but first which Mina is that?

Selrahc
2011-11-27, 06:22 AM
Gohan & Cooler (Dragonball) vs Percy Jackson & Luke (Percy Jackson)

Something tells me DBZ will win, but I just don't know the verse's well enough.


Drizz’t & Mina (Dungeons and Dragons) vs V & Xykon (Order of the Stick)

14-15th level wizard and 21+level Lich sorceror is powerful. However Mina is apparently a god. I think somebody who knows Mina needs to do an explanation of her. In DnD you can generally bet on gods to beat even the most powerful mortals.


Fighter & Black mage (8 bit theatre) vs Luffy & Crocodile (One Piece)

No knowledge. Pass.


Lucy & Hades (Fairy Tail) vs Saber & Berserker (Nasuverse (Fate/stay night))

No knowledge. Pass.


Beowulf & Basilisk (Fairytales and Folklore) vs 4th Hokage & Orochimaru (Naruto)

"Basilisk" is a vague term. Anything from a serpent-bird, to a moderately sized lizard, to a gigantic monster snake. Powers ranging from instant death vision to petrification to trailing poison.

Assuming the Basilisk is a giant lizard with petrifying sight, I think it would make for a pretty nice steed for Beowulf. Not as nice as Fafnir though. :smallwink:

Beowulf himself is an impressive character. Superhuman feats include ripping off arms and swimming underwater for three days.

I know little about Naruto though...


Sora & Sephiroth (Final Fantasy) vs Rainbow Dash & Nightmare Moon (My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic)

Shadowbolt Rainbow Dash and Nightmare Moon is a pretty cool pairing.

I predict controversy over the power levels of Sephiroth. Characters from FF7 have at various points, been taken down by swords and tanked blasts that destroy moons. Sephiroth has an awesomely crazy supernova attack that doesn't actually make sense.

In all honesty, the Square characters probably have this won unless Nightmare Moon can pull some friendship destroying tricks to turn Sora against Sephiroth. Just to make it easier for the ponies, I'll set the fight in Everfree forest, with the combatants starting separated.


Freddy Kruger & Jason Vorhees vs Sub Zero & Reptile (Mortal Kombat)

It's a fight to the victory. Not to the death. Accordingly, the powers of Jason to take punishment, and then come back from it doesn't really matter. The power for Freddy to strike in dreams doesn't matter. While the mystical superpowers and immense skill of the Mortal Kombat folk does matter.


Edward Elric & Scar (Full Metal Alchemist) vs Samus & Dark Samus (Metroid)

A fight I'd like to watch, I can imagine a lot of pyrotechnics occurring. I would definitely give it to the Metroid verse though. The Alchemists would need to close in and dematerialize the suits before they could do any real damage. That would be a very tricky feat against the mobility that both Metroid characters have, especially while avoiding their impressive firepower.

Sunken Valley
2011-11-27, 06:59 AM
Mina is from Dragonlance. I think she might have been a mortal who became a god but not sure. Certainly an actual D&D god (being far above CR 30) is too powerful for the royale. But since she was mortal (and a ghost) we'd use her pre-divine power level. We need a Mina-ologist (Forum Explorer) to tell us how powerful she is. Or alternatively, it's still day one and I could nip this at the bud and replace Mina with Lord of Blades.

Oh and forgot to say, Bleach and Terminator won the ties! Also Mr white was disqualified from Battle Royale one grounds of too weak. Cohen will get a tougher partner in time for round 2.

Forum Explorer
2011-11-27, 07:01 AM
Round 1-week 3 of 4
Gohan & Cooler (Dragonball) vs Percy Jackson & Luke (Percy Jackson)

Drizz’t & Mina (Dungeons and Dragons) vs V & Xykon (Order of the Stick) this one can go either way really but Mina is capable of creating invincible undead who are fully intelligent and devoted to her. Also while mortal she slew a dragon the side of the mountain.

Fighter & Black mage (8 bit theatre) vs Luffy & Crocodile (One Piece) Being able to block anything alongside the most destructive mage the world has ever seen?

Lucy & Hades (Fairy Tail) vs Saber & Berserker (Nasuverse (Fate/stay night)): Another fun one, but Lucy doesn't really have anything that can stand up to Saber or Berserker. Hades would be hard pressed to harm them as well.

Beowulf & Basilisk (Fairytales and Folklore) vs 4th Hokage & Orochimaru (Naruto) because the ninja's take too long to win and will lose at least one if not both team members to the Basilisk's stare
Sora & Sephiroth (Final Fantasy) vs Rainbow Dash & Nightmare Moon (My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic): Well this is just obvious. :smalltongue:
Freddy Kruger & Jason Vorhees vs Sub Zero & Reptile (Mortal Kombat)
Edward Elric & Scar (Full Metal Alchemist) vs Samus & Dark Samus (Metroid)

A more detailed description on Mina. Though she is a god throughout most of the books she is unaware of being one and seems to be relatively incapable of drawing on her power. She sorta acts as an epic cleric to two different dark gods throughout the books but I believe it is stated that she is actually unknowingly drawing on her own power rather then having it granted to her. She is pretty much the god of love and is both good and evil. (but not neutral.) While 'mortal' she uses this to basically capture the hearts of those she leads ensuring next to absolute loyalty and even seducing those who would be her enemies.

Other abilities seen while 'mortal': Absolute regeneration of others injuries and apparently the ability to come back from apparent death. (Her own funeral pyre no less) The ability to see through all lies and deception instantly knowing the true nature of who she faces. The ability to reflect harm done to her (she redirected a giant blue dragon's lightning breath back into it killing it.) As well as powerful cleric spells 'granted' to her by her current patron. Thaksis at least kept her constantly in the loop granting her nigh unlimited knowledge. She can also sorta mind blast those who look into her eyes. Basically she just lets them know that a god fights on her side as an intimidation factor by letting them see the viewpoint of god. (doubt that would do anything to Xykon but it might through V for a bit of a loop)

Top cat
2011-11-27, 10:24 AM
Gohan & Cooler (Dragonball) vs Percy Jackson & Luke (Percy Jackson) - No contest.
Drizz’t & Mina (Dungeons and Dragons) vs V & Xykon (Order of the Stick) - Pass for now, I don't know who mina is. However, if they're not significantly more powerful than drizzt, I'd give this to OOTS purely because xykon appears to be higher level (and is a spellcaster).
Fighter & Black mage (8 bit theatre) vs Luffy & Crocodile (One Piece) - Pass
Lucy & Hades (Fairy Tail) vs Saber & Berserker (Nasuverse (Fate/stay night)) - Pass
Beowulf & Basilisk (Fairytales and Folklore) vs 4th Hokage & Orochimaru (Naruto) - I'm going to go out on a bit of a limb here and assume that the 4th, given that he's kakashi's teacher, would probably do a similar sort of thing and use kage bunshin to gather information when fighting an unknown opponent. He can then find out the basilisk's power and stomp it while blindfolded or something, or just overwhelm it with clones. Beowulf is probably a non-issue compared to the ninjas.
Sora & Sephiroth (Final Fantasy) vs Rainbow Dash & Nightmare Moon (My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic) - Nothing can destroy friendship, it's the most powerful force in the universe! It's even stronger than chuck norris!
Freddy Kruger & Jason Vorhees vs Sub Zero & Reptile (Mortal Kombat)
Edward Elric & Scar (Full Metal Alchemist) vs Samus & Dark Samus (Metroid) - I like FMA, but I doubt alchemy is going to work very well against metroid tech.

Istari
2011-11-27, 10:26 AM
Gohan & Cooler (Dragonball) vs Percy Jackson & Luke (Percy Jackson) - While Percy and Luke have Achilles immortality, Dragonball is just too strong
Drizz’t & Mina (Dungeons and Dragons) vs V & Xykon (Order of the Stick)
Fighter & Black mage (8 bit theatre) vs Luffy & Crocodile (One Piece)
Lucy & Hades (Fairy Tail) vs Saber & Berserker (Nasuverse (Fate/stay night))
Beowulf & Basilisk (Fairytales and Folklore) vs 4th Hokage & Orochimaru (Naruto)
Sora & Sephiroth (Final Fantasy) vs Rainbow Dash & Nightmare Moon (My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic) - Very tough since Sephiroth's power level is kind of wonky, but I'm going to go ponies for rainboom nuke and moon drop
Freddy Kruger & Jason Vorhees vs Sub Zero & Reptile (Mortal Kombat)
Edward Elric & Scar (Full Metal Alchemist) vs Samus & Dark Samus (Metroid)

Prime32
2011-11-27, 10:30 AM
Gohan & Cooler (Dragonball) vs Percy Jackson & Luke (Percy Jackson)I don't know enough about Percy Jackson to vote, but I assume that the DBZ characters can overpower them.


Drizz’t & Mina (Dungeons and Dragons) vs V & Xykon (Order of the Stick) Mina who?


Fighter & Black mage (8 bit theatre) vs Luffy & Crocodile (One Piece)Pretty sure that Luffy can outfight Fighter, and Crocodile can easily kill Black Mage if he gets close enough. BM might be able to kill both the One Piece guys with his Hadoken though.


Lucy & Hades (Fairy Tail) vs Saber & Berserker (Nasuverse (Fate/stay night))Saber is practically immune to magic, and Berserker is immune to anything which isn't max-level regardless of strength. Plus Saber's sword has one-shotted eldritch abominations.


Beowulf & Basilisk (Fairytales and Folklore) vs 4th Hokage & Orochimaru (Naruto)I doubt the basilisk will do much against Voldemort Orochimaru, and the 4th has teleport-spam to confound Beowulf.


Sora & Sephiroth (Final Fantasy) vs Rainbow Dash & Nightmare Moon (My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic)No idea, but it's worth pointing out that Sephiroth's Supernova cannot kill its targets and appears to be an illusion/Mind Crush type attack.


Freddy Kruger & Jason Vorhees vs Sub Zero & Reptile (Mortal Kombat)No clue.


Edward Elric & Scar (Full Metal Alchemist) vs Samus & Dark Samus (Metroid)It would be a cool fight though.

Lord Loss
2011-11-27, 10:36 AM
Gohan & Cooler (Dragonball) vs Percy Jackson & Luke (Percy Jackson)
Drizz’t & Mina (Dungeons and Dragons) vs V & Xykon (Order of the Stick)
Fighter & Black mage (8 bit theatre) vs Luffy & Crocodile (One Piece)
Lucy & Hades (Fairy Tail) vs Saber & Berserker (Nasuverse (Fate/stay night))
Beowulf & Basilisk (Fairytales and Folklore) vs 4th Hokage & Orochimaru (Naruto)
Sora & Sephiroth (Final Fantasy) vs Rainbow Dash & Nightmare Moon (My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic)
Freddy Kruger & Jason Vorhees vs Sub Zero & Reptile (Mortal Kombat)
Edward Elric & Scar (Full Metal Alchemist) vs Samus & Dark Samus (Metroid)

Forum Explorer
2011-11-27, 10:47 AM
To sum up Mina for those who haven't read my post above. She is a god who has been tricked into thinking she is mortal. She acts as the high priestess of the god of Darkness, and then plays the same role for the god of Death after the god of darkness is stripped of her immortality and killed. She is capable of epic magics which usually takes the form of denying or reflecting her opponents abilities back at them.

Mr.Silver
2011-11-27, 01:37 PM
Not much I know about here.

Gohan & Cooler (Dragonball) vs Percy Jackson & Luke (Percy Jackson)
Yeah, DBZ's power level is going to carry this fairly handily. As almost always happens when characters from it end-up in versus threads.


Drizz’t & Mina (Dungeons and Dragons) vs V & Xykon (Order of the Stick)
Assuming Mina is that character from the later Dragonlance novels (basically an evil fantasy Joan of Arc who can command ghosts) I'm inclined to give this to the two powerful spell-casters. I may be wrong here though, if someone wants to link to a description on Mina I'd appreciate it.


Fighter & Black mage (8 bit theatre) vs Luffy & Crocodile (One Piece) - pass
I know nothing about One Piece's power level. I'm guessing it's fairly high (it is a Shonen Fighting series) but not sure how well it compares to endgame 8-Bit.


Lucy & Hades (Fairy Tail) vs Saber & Berserker (Nasuverse (Fate/stay night))- pass
Never seen FSN and haven't even heard of Fairy Tail so...

Beowulf & Basilisk (Fairytales and Folklore) vs 4th Hokage & Orochimaru (Naruto) - pass
Basilisk's death gaze is going to be the deciding factor (Beowulf is notable for being something of a badass normal), and I don't really enough about Naruto to have any idea what their defences against insta-kills are.



Sora & Sephiroth (Final Fantasy) vs Rainbow Dash & Nightmare Moon (My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic) - pass
I don't really know how exactly sentient magical Ponies would fight two armed warriors, but given how ridiculously insane internet fandom is around Kingdom Hearts, Sephiroth and MLP there's basically no chance of this ever being anything other than a popularity contest.

Freddy Kruger & Jason Vorhees vs Sub Zero & Reptile (Mortal Kombat) - pass
Don't know don't care :smalltongue:


Edward Elric & Scar (Full Metal Alchemist) vs Samus & Dark Samus(Metroid)
The Metroid 'verse has too much of a tech lead to really lose this one (FMA tech is around WWI-1920s level). Yeah, alchemy is strong but not really up to the kinds of ranged assault the FMA team will be taking (Ice beams, homing missiles, energy blasts, Bombs). Samus' armour is also pretty durable and she still has superior speed and agility. It'd be a good fight though.

Selrahc
2011-11-27, 02:28 PM
Beowulf is notable for being something of a badass normal

No. He really isn't.

Beowulf:
Overpowers a hideous troll who "Blades can't pierce" with pure raw strength.
Wrestles with a giant sea-serpent underwater for three days. EDIT: Sorry, *Nine* giant sea serpents underwater for three days.
Hits things so hard that he literally breaks his swords.
Defeats a gigantic fire breathing dragon while a very old man, dismissing his armies as they would be of no help.

Beowulf is every bit as superhuman as characters like Gilgamesh or Heracles. The only thing he lacks is a divine heritage acting as an excuse for his supernatural abilities.

Mr.Silver
2011-11-27, 04:28 PM
No. He really isn't.

Beowulf:
Overpowers a hideous troll who "Blades can't pierce" with pure raw strength.
Wrestles with a giant sea-serpent underwater for three days. EDIT: Sorry, *Nine* giant sea serpents underwater for three days.
Hits things so hard that he literally breaks his swords.
Defeats a gigantic fire breathing dragon while a very old man, dismissing his armies as they would be of no help.

Beowulf is every bit as superhuman as characters like Gilgamesh or Heracles. The only thing he lacks is a divine heritage acting as an excuse for his supernatural abilities.

Damn, you're right. Must have been getting him confused with someone else.

Kato
2011-11-27, 06:15 PM
Well... no real surprises last week. But interesting-ish teams for the new one.
Also: Yay, a better match for Cohen!

Gohan & Cooler (Dragonball) vs Percy Jackson & Luke (Percy Jackson) - I hardly know PJ but I guess DB ist just on another scale... though, weird pics from the cast but whatever.
Drizz’t & Mina (Dungeons and Dragons) vs V & Xykon (Order of the Stick) - Well, if she is a goddess... I guess we need to think about disqualifying here, depending on the level. I know too little to be sure but god is god.
Fighter & Black mage (8 bit theatre) vs Luffy & Crocodile (One Piece) - As much as I like OP (though, again, Crocodile? Really?) I think Fighter who can block anything and Blackmage who can destroy anything would win over the others if it wasn't for Fighter and Luffy actually wlaking out on the other two grab a beer. Then BM would be in a bit of a pinch but in the team battle... no problem.
Lucy & Hades (Fairy Tail) vs Saber & Berserker (Nasuverse (Fate/stay night)) - Hm... I think FT is outmatched here. Saber is pretty damn badass, and Berserker... well, I guess they might be able to handle him.
Beowulf & Basilisk (Fairytales and Folklore) vs 4th Hokage & Orochimaru (Naruto) - Not much of a contest, I think. Basilisk might be interesting but against Voldemort...
Sora & Sephiroth (Final Fantasy) vs Rainbow Dash & Nightmare Moon (My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic) - Xou know what? /%E§(=&= me. That's the contestants for FF? No offense to anyone but as much as I dislike the hype around the ponies if that's the match for FF I'll even vote for them. Sense or not.
Freddy Kruger & Jason Vorhees vs Sub Zero & Reptile (Mortal Kombat) - Much more battle hardned I think.
Edward Elric & Scar (Full Metal Alchemist) vs Samus & Dark Samus (Metroid) - I'll give it to superior technology.

Forum Explorer
2011-11-27, 06:23 PM
why all the love for Orochimuaru? Sure he is impressive but he isn't immortal or all knowing. What does he got that could beat the basalisk fast enough? Plus there is still Beowulf to consider.

Top cat
2011-11-27, 07:29 PM
Eh, he might be able to survive the basilisk stare actually. I still don't really know what exactly orochimaru is, but it seems like he may well survive the destruction of his body. IMO though, it will come down to shadow clones, assuming the 4th isn't retarded he will probably use one to probe the enemy, and then get insta-knowledge of the death-stare when his clone poofs out of existence. From there it's just a matter of overwhelming the basilisk with clones, and I don't think beowulf would be able to keep up with them at all in combat speed. Also, can orochimaru use shadow clones? I can't remember him doing it, but he did have the schtick about learning every jutsu.

Prime32
2011-11-27, 08:04 PM
Also, can orochimaru use shadow clones? I can't remember him doing it, but he did have the schtick about learning every jutsu.He can use Mud Clones - they're less convincing to magical senses, but that's irrelevant here.

Also, he controls snakes.

Forum Explorer
2011-11-27, 08:12 PM
Eh, he might be able to survive the basilisk stare actually. I still don't really know what exactly orochimaru is, but it seems like he may well survive the destruction of his body. IMO though, it will come down to shadow clones, assuming the 4th isn't retarded he will probably use one to probe the enemy, and then get insta-knowledge of the death-stare when his clone poofs out of existence. From there it's just a matter of overwhelming the basilisk with clones, and I don't think beowulf would be able to keep up with them at all in combat speed. Also, can orochimaru use shadow clones? I can't remember him doing it, but he did have the schtick about learning every jutsu.

The basilisk stare doesn't destroy the body it either just kills the mind inhabiting the body leaving a husk behind or turns them to stone. So Orochimaru would be pretty F'ed either way. The 4th might pull it off with clones or in a straight fight if the basilisk can track him down once he knows about the death stare but it would still be a hard fight and meanwhile there is still Beowulf to consider.

zingbat
2011-11-27, 08:13 PM
Gohan & Cooler (Dragonball) vs Percy Jackson & Luke (Percy Jackson) - strongly resisting the urge to vote agains DB out of spite...
Drizz’t & Mina (Dungeons and Dragons) vs V & Xykon (Order of the Stick) -- Sadly, based on Forum Explorer's description, Mina outclasses the hometown favourites. I think it will be a good fight, but ultimately a loss for Ears and the lich.
Fighter & Black mage (8 bit theatre) vs Luffy & Crocodile (One Piece) -- pass
Lucy & Hades (Fairy Tail) vs Saber & Berserker (Nasuverse (Fate/stay night)) -- pass
Beowulf & Basilisk (Fairytales and Folklore) vs 4th Hokage & Orochimaru (Naruto) -- I'm assuming we have a rather large serpent-type basilisk with stone-gaze. I don't know much about Naruto, but Beowulf is superhuman and has a statue-making friend.
Sora & Sephiroth (Final Fantasy) vs Rainbow Dash & Nightmare Moon (My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic) - as mentioned, FF power levels are screwy, especially when comparing storyline to in-game abilities. I think this is probably the most unpredictable fight, but I just can't vote for those weird little ponies.
Freddy Kruger & Jason Vorhees vs Sub Zero & Reptile (Mortal Kombat) -- Horror movie villains are notoriously difficult to kill, but this isn't necessarily to the death. The Mortal Kombat crew can out-maneuver F and J and most likely incapacitate them.
Edward Elric & Scar (Full Metal Alchemist) vs Samus & Dark Samus (Metroid) -- speaking of out-maneuvering, I think Samus and her dark twin have the edge here: high mobility combined with massive firepower.

Fan
2011-11-27, 08:21 PM
Gonna go ahead and say that Sora pretty much wins everything.

Because he can block hundreds of light speed attacks coming in from all directions constantly, cut multi story buildings in half with a mostly blunt object with little to no effort... and can fly at said speeds to keep up with an FTL ship.

He's just completely ridiculous, and most of that only happens in the KH 2 final battle.

Prime32
2011-11-27, 08:36 PM
The basilisk stare doesn't destroy the body it either just kills the mind inhabiting the body leaving a husk behind or turns them to stone. So Orochimaru would be pretty F'ed either way. The 4th might pull it off with clones or in a straight fight if the basilisk can track him down once he knows about the death stare but it would still be a hard fight and meanwhile there is still Beowulf to consider.4th Hokage clones himself, uses Dead Demon Consuming Seal (http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Dead_Demon_Consuming_Seal) to destroy the souls of Beowulf and the Basilisk. Orochimaru sits back drinking lemonade.

Alternatively, the 4th's clones just grab the other guys and teleport them into underground caverns with no air.


Is Orochimaru allowed to summon indestructible zombies (http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Summoning:_Impure_World_Resurrection) to fight for him?

Forum Explorer
2011-11-27, 08:42 PM
4th Hokage clones himself, uses Dead Demon Consuming Seal (http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Dead_Demon_Consuming_Seal) to destroy the souls of Beowulf and the Basilisk. Orochimaru sits back drinking lemonade.

Alternatively, the 4th's clones just grab the other guys and teleport them into underground caverns with no air.

Somehow I doubt that technique can be done with a clone or else why wouldn't he have done so in his match against Orochimaru? Similarly when did we ever see him teleport? Or perhaps I'm thinking of the wrong Hokage. The 4th was that old man who fought Orochimaru during the Chunin exams right?

Prime32
2011-11-27, 08:44 PM
Somehow I doubt that technique can be done with a clone or else why wouldn't he have done so in his match against Orochimaru? Similarly when did we ever see him teleport? Or perhaps I'm thinking of the wrong Hokage. The 4th was that old man who fought Orochimaru during the Chunin exams right?Old man = 3rd Hokage. 4th Hokage = Naruto's father. The 3rd came out of retirement when the 4th died.

And the 3rd did use clones to seal Orochimaru's zombie summons, which is mentioned on the page I linked.

Forum Explorer
2011-11-27, 08:51 PM
Old man = 3rd Hokage. 4th Hokage = Naruto's father. The 3rd came out of retirement when the 4th died.

And the 3rd did use clones to seal Orochimaru's zombie summons, which is mentioned on the page I linked.

yeah just caught that on a reread. Well I don't know anything about the 4th Hokage, but that link did mention that the technique would get the users soul so it would eliminate the 4th hokage as well.

Prime32
2011-11-27, 08:54 PM
yeah just caught that on a reread. Well I don't know anything about the 4th Hokage, but that link did mention that the technique would get the users soul so it would eliminate the 4th hokage as well.Which doesn't matter - if everyone except Orochimaru is dead, the Naruto team wins.

Forum Explorer
2011-11-27, 09:00 PM
Which doesn't matter - if everyone except Orochimaru is dead, the Naruto team wins.

but would he resort to such a tactic? (Seriously I know nothing about this guy besides that he died sealing the fox into Naruto)

Istari
2011-11-27, 10:02 PM
but would he resort to such a tactic? (Seriously I know nothing about this guy besides that he died sealing the fox into Naruto)

I think you just answered your own question :smalltongue:

zingbat
2011-11-27, 11:41 PM
Which doesn't matter - if everyone except Orochimaru is dead, the Naruto team wins.

But then Orochimaru would need a new partner...

Prime32
2011-11-28, 09:28 AM
But then Orochimaru would need a new partner...Rules state that everyone fights at their strongest, so he's alive again in the next round. If the results of previous rounds carried over then everyone would get more powerful by stealing the weapons of the people they'd defeated, etc.

And regardless, if Orochimaru uses Impure World Resurrection (http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Summoning:_Impure_World_Resurrection) to summon the 1st and 2nd Hokages as immortal zombies... Beowulf and the Basilisk can't kill them and have no way to seal them, so they can't win.

Istari
2011-11-28, 02:32 PM
Rules state that everyone fights at their strongest, so he's alive again in the next round. If the results of previous rounds carried over then everyone would get more powerful by stealing the weapons of the people they'd defeated, etc.

And regardless, if Orochimaru uses Impure World Resurrection (http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Summoning:_Impure_World_Resurrection) to summon the 1st and 2nd Hokages as immortal zombies... Beowulf and the Basilisk can't kill them and have no way to seal them, so they can't win.

Well technically both of those Kages have been sealed and he needs a sacrifice for each zombie, so he would have to revive someone else using the 4th, but the point stands.

Chess435
2011-11-28, 05:04 PM
What was the verdict on the tiebreakers from week 1?

zingbat
2011-11-28, 09:36 PM
4th Hokage clones himself, uses Dead Demon Consuming Seal to destroy the souls of Beowulf and the Basilisk. Orochimaru sits back drinking lemonade.

Alternatively, the 4th's clones just grab the other guys and teleport them into underground caverns with no air.


Based on the descriptions I read, either of those could work... if 4th knows that neither he nor his clones can be looked at by the basilisk, and then manages to do his techniques while avoiding both the basilisk's gaze and barbarian superhero.

(Although, to be fair, Beowulf is going to have to avoid the gaze as well, since it's not a voluntary power for the basilisk. He should probably use the basilisk as a mount.)

Also, regarding the teleport plan:
- Does the 4th keep the locations of airless underground caverns in his head? Is he really that crazy prepared?
- Do the clones actually have to grab their target? If so, they're going to find it difficult to do this to Beowulf.
- And, of course, can they position themselves in a way that they will not be seen by the basilisk even for a moment?




Rules state that everyone fights at their strongest, so he's alive again in the next round.

The Death God might have something to say about that. :smallsmile: We might need a ruling on how suicide attacks work in this battle royal.


And regardless, if Orochimaru uses Impure World Resurrection (http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Summoning:_Impure_World_Resurrection) to summon the 1st and 2nd Hokages as immortal zombies... Beowulf and the Basilisk can't kill them and have no way to seal them, so they can't win.

Your link specifically states that "The technique can be partially combated by immobilising the bodies in a way that it cannot move, act, or be recalled by the summoner." As in, being petrified by a basilisk's gaze. Also, the whole things seems at least somewhat complicated: DNA samples, living sacrifices, activating scrolls, opening caskets, waking the zombies... I don't know Naruto, but is this really something that can be done in the heat of battle? Beowulf doesn't have nice manners like most manga characters do; he's not going to twiddle his thumbs while elaborate transformation rituals are taking place. And, again, did he blindfold the basilisk or what?

Top cat
2011-11-29, 09:11 AM
Why can't the clones be looked at? Killing clones doesn't kill you, that's the whole point of them. Also, what kind of basilisk? I was assuming the flesh-to-stone kind.

Forum Explorer
2011-11-29, 11:14 AM
Rules state that everyone fights at their strongest, so he's alive again in the next round. If the results of previous rounds carried over then everyone would get more powerful by stealing the weapons of the people they'd defeated, etc.

And regardless, if Orochimaru uses Impure World Resurrection (http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Summoning:_Impure_World_Resurrection) to summon the 1st and 2nd Hokages as immortal zombies... Beowulf and the Basilisk can't kill them and have no way to seal them, so they can't win.

He can't use that technique since it requires a living sacrifice of another human. Well he could use it and sacrifice the 4th hokage but otherwise he couldn't by the rules of the fight.

Prime32
2011-11-29, 02:17 PM
He can't use that technique since it requires a living sacrifice of another human. Well he could use it and sacrifice the 4th hokage but otherwise he couldn't by the rules of the fight.When he uses it in the story he'd already performed most of the jutsu beforehand, storing the sacrifices in coffins; he then summoned the coffins while in combat.

That said, the jutsu doesn't take long to use.


Also, regarding the teleport plan:
- Does the 4th keep the locations of airless underground caverns in his head? Is he really that crazy prepared?He can teleport to any of his daggers, and he keeps a number of them in specially created underground chambers.


- Do the clones actually have to grab their target? If so, they're going to find it difficult to do this to Beowulf.He was able to teleport the Nine-Tails without touching it, but that was after he summoned a giant toad (http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Gamabunta) to hold it still. (said toad could also just be summoned above the basilisk to crush it (http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Summoning:_Food_Cart_Destroyer_Technique))

- And, of course, can they position themselves in a way that they will not be seen by the basilisk even for a moment?Couldn't they just keep their eyes closed? Also, they're ninjas.


Your link specifically states that "The technique can be partially combated by immobilising the bodies in a way that it cannot move, act, or be recalled by the summoner." As in, being petrified by a basilisk's gaze.The clones would regenerate from that though.

Forum Explorer
2011-11-29, 02:34 PM
When he uses it in the story he'd already performed most of the jutsu beforehand, storing the sacrifices in coffins; he then summoned the coffins while in combat.

.

hmmm. I would like a ruling on this one. On one hand he has pretty much reduced them to equitment status. One the other hand getting before-hand prepwork is a pretty big advantage.

Selrahc
2011-11-29, 02:47 PM
So... a lot of the stuff from the Naruto verse seems to be relying heavily on the fight taking place in the Narutoverse, or at least somewhere with preprepared coffins, a scouted out battlefield etc.

If the fight takes place in a neutral third location, then a lot of the Naruto verses tricks just aren't going to be applicable. If the battle were confined to say... a gigantic crumbling romanesque arena it would become more about straight fighting rather than fancy tricks.

Can Naruto win a straight fight? Are it's characters superstrong and supertough? How skilled are they? How fast? I feel like the discussion has been rather sidetracked by crazy techniques the ninjas can pull out of the bag... but maybe that's just the bulk of what Naruto is about.

I'd also like to say, that while the basilisk is by necessity a very vague inclusion without a single definitive source to base its powers on, most sources I've seen that include basilisks have their death/petrification gaze based on looking the basilisk in the eye. Rather than just anything the basilisk looks at. That would mean a skilled fighter could either keep their eyes shut or in a slightly more risky but less debilitating move merely keep their gaze averted.

Sunken Valley
2011-11-29, 02:56 PM
What was the verdict on the tiebreakers from week 1?

Bleach won theirs. Terminator was never in a tie due to a vote counting error.

Royale characters do know they will be fighting a fight. They can buff themselves. However, Orochimaru cannot bring these corpses unless he comes to royale with a cart carrying all his corpses. Which would be ridiculous and illegal. However, nobody has picked the terrain yet for that one.


Time to introduce a twist. Should have done this before. When a team wins a tie, they do not survive untouched one of them dies. This means either Ichigo or Aizen dies. Which one is stronger? Because the weaker one dies.

Forum Explorer
2011-11-29, 03:00 PM
Bleach won theirs. Terminator was never in a tie due to a vote counting error.

Royale characters do know they will be fighting a fight. They can buff themselves. However, Orochimaru cannot bring these corpses unless he comes to royale with a cart carrying all his corpses. Which would be ridiculous and illegal. However, nobody has picked the terrain yet for that one.


Time to introduce a twist. Should have done this before. When a team wins a tie, they do not survive untouched one of them dies. This means either Ichigo or Aizen dies. Which one is stronger? Because the weaker one dies.

canon is that Ichigo wins in a fight. But this pretty much eliminates them both from the competition anyways.

Alright so the fight is taking place in a crumbing Romanesque gladiator arena since that was the first suggestion. They know who their opponents are but not their nature however using clones as scouts is reasonable so they would likely be eliminated by the basilisk's gaze. The only ninja I'm aware of being able to fight without eye contact is Guy but he admits that even after training it puts him at a disadvantage. Its probable that the 4th hokage and Orichumaru have not trained in fighting like that and would find it extremely difficult.

Prime32
2011-11-29, 03:04 PM
Can Naruto win a straight fight? Are it's characters superstrong and supertough? How skilled are they? How fast? I feel like the discussion has been rather sidetracked by crazy techniques the ninjas can pull out of the bag... but maybe that's just the bulk of what Naruto is about.Strong, tough, skilled? They're ninjas. The 4th is known as the "Yellow Flash", and was fast enough that he was able to basically turn the tide of a war by fighting armies of other ninjas by himself.

Here's a clip of Orochimaru fighting. (www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5HZ8s-NuWU)


Royale characters do know they will be fighting a fight. They can buff themselves. However, Orochimaru cannot bring these corpses unless he comes to royale with a cart carrying all his corpses. Which would be ridiculous and illegal. However, nobody has picked the terrain yet for that one.He can summon them from an unlimited distance though...

Istari
2011-11-29, 03:16 PM
So... a lot of the stuff from the Naruto verse seems to be relying heavily on the fight taking place in the Narutoverse, or at least somewhere with preprepared coffins, a scouted out battlefield etc.

If the fight takes place in a neutral third location, then a lot of the Naruto verses tricks just aren't going to be applicable. If the battle were confined to say... a gigantic crumbling romanesque arena it would become more about straight fighting rather than fancy tricks.

Can Naruto win a straight fight? Are it's characters superstrong and supertough? How skilled are they? How fast? I feel like the discussion has been rather sidetracked by crazy techniques the ninjas can pull out of the bag... but maybe that's just the bulk of what Naruto is about.

I'd also like to say, that while the basilisk is by necessity a very vague inclusion without a single definitive source to base its powers on, most sources I've seen that include basilisks have their death/petrification gaze based on looking the basilisk in the eye. Rather than just anything the basilisk looks at. That would mean a skilled fighter could either keep their eyes shut or in a slightly more risky but less debilitating move merely keep their gaze averted.

It pretty much is, Naruto ninja's can be very good in a straight fight, but thrive with their large variety of techniques .
4th Hokage (http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Minato_Namikaze) - While he is more powerful with his prepared kunai to teleport too, he carries some to use on him and is about tied for best speed in the narutoverse (REALLY FAST).
Orochimaru (http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Orochimaru) - Generic snake abilities, summoning, regeneration, general ninjutsu.

For the basilisk, both can summon giant toads/snakes respectively which aren't likely to make eye contact and might just squish it.

Selrahc
2011-11-29, 03:21 PM
They're ninjas

That means not much to me. I have never seen a single episode/read a single issue of Naruto. What is the baseline power level of a ninja? Real world ninjas certainly wouldn't impress me in this contest.



Time to introduce a twist. Should have done this before. When a team wins a tie, they do not survive untouched one of them dies. This means either Ichigo or Aizen dies. Which one is stronger? Because the weaker one dies.

So... teams that just barely scrape through a match... are made weaker for all subsequent matches?

That's really dumb. Sorry.

Sunken Valley
2011-11-30, 03:39 AM
That means not much to me. I have never seen a single episode/read a single issue of Naruto. What is the baseline power level of a ninja? Real world ninjas certainly wouldn't impress me in this contest.



So... teams that just barely scrape through a match... are made weaker for all subsequent matches?

That's really dumb. Sorry.

Stupid rule evacuating in 5, 4 ,3 ,2 ,1

Selrahc
2011-11-30, 04:30 PM
Narutoverse.

The Basilisk will keep the Naruto guys off base while it is alive. But ultimately it is a big dumb monster, that either of them can kill pretty easily. Probably very quickly into the fight.

Beowulf is tougher. His skin is enough to bounce swords off, and in the enchanted armour he stole from Grendel's Mother's hoard he is incredibly resilient. I do however think that he can't beat up both of his opponents. The Orochimaru fight I was linked to was impressive, and while "teleporting" sounds like a lot less useful of a power to take down someone as tough and strong as Beowulf, I'm sure Mr Hokage will be a tough opponent too. I definitely can't see Beowulf taking down both of them at once.

Weak link Basilisk makes the Narutoverse the favourite.

Unless you assume that they both die to a petrifying gaze in the first few seconds. Or that Beowulf can make good use of the short time while they're fighting and avoiding the gaze to even the odds. I think it's definitely one that could potentially swing the other way.

Top cat
2011-11-30, 05:37 PM
Beowulf is really strong and has some ridiculous "look how awesome I am" feats. But the ninjas in naruto are really strong, really fast and use magic. The speed really makes a massive difference, I'm pretty sure these guys are around dragon ball (pre-z) levels. The kind of speed that the guys who can lose spectators watching them from a fair distance can't follow. The standard ninjas (far weaker than the two we're talking about) are probably peak human skilled, with superhuman strength and speed, and magic. For example, it's pretty standard to see ninjas knocking kunai that are in flight out of the air with their own. They can usually jump double digit metres and enhance their strikes with chakra while fighting. The main weakness that the ninjas have is I'm not entirely sure about their toughness. While they seem to be almost proof against impacts that would kill a normal human, but it's not as if blades snap on them. Then again, it's possible with these two. Does anyone recall orochimaru or the fourth being hurt by a mundane sword?

So yeah, provided they don't get nailed by the basilisk stare I'm almost certain the ninjas take it.

Forum Explorer
2011-11-30, 05:49 PM
Beowulf is really strong and has some ridiculous "look how awesome I am" feats. But the ninjas in naruto are really strong, really fast and use magic. The speed really makes a massive difference, I'm pretty sure these guys are around dragon ball (pre-z) levels. The kind of speed that the guys who can lose spectators watching them from a fair distance can't follow. The standard ninjas (far weaker than the two we're talking about) are probably peak human skilled, with superhuman strength and speed, and magic. For example, it's pretty standard to see ninjas knocking kunai that are in flight out of the air with their own. They can usually jump double digit metres and enhance their strikes with chakra while fighting. The main weakness that the ninjas have is I'm not entirely sure about their toughness. While they seem to be almost proof against impacts that would kill a normal human, but it's not as if blades snap on them. Then again, it's possible with these two. Does anyone recall orochimaru or the fourth being hurt by a mundane sword?

So yeah, provided they don't get nailed by the basilisk stare I'm almost certain the ninjas take it.

I remember Orichumara being pretty tough and taking some wall crushing impacts without effect.

Prime32
2011-11-30, 06:47 PM
while "teleporting" sounds like a lot less useful of a power to take down someone as tough and strong as Beowulf, I'm sure Mr Hokage will be a tough opponent too.The thing is that he can basically teleport as easily as blinking, and with great precision. Fighting him is like fighting air. Offensively he has the Rasengan (http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Rasengan), which would do massive damage to Beowulf before he can even tell what's happening.


I remember Orichumara being pretty tough and taking some wall crushing impacts without effect.In the video I linked he gets cut in two and the halves just rejoin. His body is essentially a large colony of snakes transformed into a human - from what I can tell he only needs one to survive.

Selrahc
2011-11-30, 06:49 PM
In the video I linked he gets cut in two and the halves just rejoin.

Although one wonders what would happen if instead of just standing and gawking while the snakes slowly slithered together, the other guy had pressed the attack and kept slicing. I don't think most opponents will be anywhere near as accommodating.

Prime32
2011-11-30, 06:58 PM
Although one wonders what would happen if instead of just standing and gawking while the snakes slowly slithered together, the other guy had pressed the attack and kept slicing. I don't think most opponents will be anywhere near as accommodating.Correct. Naruto could barely move in that form, the energy (and burning/regenerating skin and blood) around his body was so thick. Most of his opponents are a lot faster.

Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN4PgZIddNA)'s an earlier fight vs the 3rd Hokage.

zingbat
2011-11-30, 09:06 PM
Although one wonders what would happen if instead of just standing and gawking while the snakes slowly slithered together, the other guy had pressed the attack and kept slicing. I don't think most opponents will be anywhere near as accommodating.

I always wonder about this type of thing when anime/manga characters are in these fights. Japanese-style stories typically involve elaborate transformation and preparatory sequences that opponents seem to treat as free actions. There's also a lot of staring in awe when something amazing happens. A character from outside that universe isn't going to just watch.

This is one of the more interesting fights to me, and I think it hinges on how the basilisk is handled. Beowulf is epically tough and a legendary fighter, but the basilisk is basically a one-trick pony; Team Naruto seems much more versatile. If they know what the basilisk can do, and take it out quickly, they'll probably take the fight. If they don't know, or don't take it seriously, one of them will be stone, and Beowulf and the monster win.

I'm sticking with Team B&B, mostly because I prefer folklore and legend to anime and manga.:smalltongue:

Prime32
2011-11-30, 09:34 PM
I always wonder about this type of thing when anime/manga characters are in these fights. Japanese-style stories typically involve elaborate transformation and preparatory sequences that opponents seem to treat as free actions. There's also a lot of staring in awe when something amazing happens. A character from outside that universe isn't going to just watch.This is predominantly anime. There's a lot of stories where the fights are supposed to be happening so fast that a normal human can't even see them, which obviously doesn't work in an anime adaptation.

In some stuff we're informed that it's going faster than that, it's just slowed down for the viewer's benefit. In most that's just assumed. In particular, most transformation sequences "really" happen almost instantly (occasionally a character who normally has such a sequence will transform in a brief flash of light and it won't be treated as different).

Then there's Dragonball Z, where 5 minutes once passed over the course of 10 episodes.


EDIT: On a related note, Battle Auras? The early examples were pretty much Reverse Spider-Sense (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SpiderSense) (broadcasting danger rather than detecting it) and weren't supposed to be visible any more than that was. It's a Japanese cultural thing that if someone is thinking about something with enough intensity (usually killing) then people nearby can sense it.

Forum Explorer
2011-12-01, 05:26 AM
This is predominantly anime. There's a lot of stories where the fights are supposed to be happening so fast that a normal human can't even see them, which obviously doesn't work in an anime adaptation.

In some stuff we're informed that it's going faster than that, it's just slowed down for the viewer's benefit. In most that's just assumed. In particular, most transformation sequences "really" happen almost instantly (occasionally a character who normally has such a sequence will transform in a brief flash of light and it won't be treated as different).

Then there's Dragonball Z, where 5 minutes once passed over the course of 10 episodes.


EDIT: On a related note, Battle Auras? The early examples were pretty much Reverse Spider-Sense (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SpiderSense) (broadcasting danger rather than detecting it) and weren't supposed to be visible any more than that was. It's a Japanese cultural thing that if someone is thinking about something with enough intensity (usually killing) then people nearby can sense it.

Sure that kinda makes sense for some things. But when they have some chant to say first then unless that's basically sounding like gibberish we know how fast the transformation is going.

Chen
2011-12-01, 08:33 AM
Are they going to know its a basilisk though? I don't see why they'd intentionally avoid its gaze or anything like that unless they know what it is. That's a pretty big downside I'd imagine.

Prime32
2011-12-01, 08:37 AM
Are they going to know its a basilisk though? I don't see why they'd intentionally avoid its gaze or anything like that unless they know what it is. That's a pretty big downside I'd imagine.It's a big part of Naruto combats that half the time you manage to hit someone it turns out to be a clone. Especially if the attacker is dumb.

Even if they do look at the basilisk, Orochimaru could escape by shedding his skin and the 4th can teleport away before he's fully petrified (he's made more improbable escapes).

Also, do team B&B have any defence against Orochimaru turning the ground into quicksand? (ninjas can walk on walls and water, it doesn't affect their mobility) Or the 4th creating a Rasengan and teleporting a millimeter behind their backs? Or Orochimaru using genjutsu (http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Genjutsu) to screw with their senses?

Chen
2011-12-01, 12:22 PM
It's a big part of Naruto combats that half the time you manage to hit someone it turns out to be a clone. Especially if the attacker is dumb.

Even if they do look at the basilisk, Orochimaru could escape by shedding his skin and the 4th can teleport away before he's fully petrified (he's made more improbable escapes).

Also, do team B&B have any defence against Orochimaru turning the ground into quicksand? (ninjas can walk on walls and water, it doesn't affect their mobility) Or the 4th creating a Rasengan and teleporting a millimeter behind their backs? Or Orochimaru using genjutsu (http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Genjutsu) to screw with their senses?

Was it the petrifying basilisk we're going with? I thought the general myths/legends one just killed you at a glance (and had poison breath). Thats really the only advantage I see the basilisk/beowulf having. The fight starts the two ninja's look at their opponents and then die because the basilisk looks back. If that doesn't happen I suspect the ninja's kill them fairly easily.

Forum Explorer
2011-12-01, 01:01 PM
Was it the petrifying basilisk we're going with? I thought the general myths/legends one just killed you at a glance (and had poison breath). Thats really the only advantage I see the basilisk/beowulf having. The fight starts the two ninja's look at their opponents and then die because the basilisk looks back. If that doesn't happen I suspect the ninja's kill them fairly easily.

I disagree based on the ninjas have never managed to kill anyone easily. Ever.

Top cat
2011-12-01, 01:05 PM
I disagree based on the ninjas have never managed to kill anyone easily. Ever.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/archive/b/bd/20070925235350!Gaara.jpg
Remember him?

Forum Explorer
2011-12-01, 01:09 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/archive/b/bd/20070925235350!Gaara.jpg
Remember him?

I argue that he isn't a ninja so much as a sealed demon. Plus I can't remember the last time he just quickly one-shoted someone and kept going.

Prime32
2011-12-01, 01:32 PM
I disagree based on the ninjas have never managed to kill anyone easily. Ever.When their opponents are also ninjas, how does that count against them? Plus we've seen clearly superhuman guys like White Zetsu (who can split into multiple bodies, trap people in goo, pass through earth like air and drain life force) getting killed by the thousands with little effort. Itachi wiped out an elite clan by himself in one night. Other times we see people getting defeated easily but left alive.


I argue that he isn't a ninja so much as a sealed demon. Plus I can't remember the last time he just quickly one-shoted someone and kept going.He killed a bunch of Sound ninjas very quickly, but after that he became less crazy and appeared less often. In any case, he tends not to rush things.

Forum Explorer
2011-12-01, 01:43 PM
When their opponents are also ninjas, how does that count against them? Plus we've seen clearly superhuman guys like White Zetsu (who can trap people in goo, pass through earth like air and drain life force) getting killed by the thousands with little effort. Itachi wiped out an elite clan by himself in one night. Other times we see people getting defeated easily but left alive.

He killed a bunch of Sound ninjas very quickly, but after that he became less crazy and appeared less often.

I'll just focus on that as most of the rest I don't really know enough about (I didn't watch a lot of Naruto and it was a long time ago)

As far as I know the ninjas are otherwise ordinary humans who can use techniques to enhance their abilities. Very few of them are actually stated to be more resiliant to damage then any other human.

Prime32
2011-12-01, 01:49 PM
As far as I know the ninjas are otherwise ordinary humans who can use techniques to enhance their abilities. Very few of them are actually stated to be more resiliant to damage then any other human.And when they get hit by a high-level technique, most ninja die instantly. However, this is very rare with the large variety of feint and defensive techniques they have (clones being the most basic/common), combined with all ninjas having super-agility.

Top cat
2011-12-01, 03:31 PM
Gaara's a jinchuriki, but most of his power is just him. Probably. Except when he's in partial or full on tailed beast form. He killed a few guys during the forest part of the chuunin exam, and later a few ninjas who wanted to intimidate him because of some betting bull****, both in less than a minute (allowing for dramatic pauses). There's also a bit around the same arc where asuma takes down 9 ninjas, also in less than a minute. Naruto ninjas aren't slow at killing, it's just that important battles are all going to be anime-esque.

Forum Explorer
2011-12-01, 04:15 PM
Gaara's a jinchuriki, but most of his power is just him. Probably. Except when he's in partial or full on tailed beast form. He killed a few guys during the forest part of the chuunin exam, and later a few ninjas who wanted to intimidate him because of some betting bull****, both in less than a minute (allowing for dramatic pauses). There's also a bit around the same arc where asuma takes down 9 ninjas, also in less than a minute. Naruto ninjas aren't slow at killing, it's just that important battles are all going to be anime-esque.

Fine, I'm still going to say this fight won't be over quick since this would fall under important battle and thus take forever.

Top cat
2011-12-01, 05:46 PM
It could just as easily be standard anime "first battle to show how goddamn powerful I am compared to these weaklings" though :p
Also,
Drizz’t & Mina (Dungeons and Dragons) vs V & Xykon (Order of the Stick)
Fighter & Black mage (8 bit theatre) vs Luffy & Crocodile (One Piece) (still undecided for now)

Prime32
2011-12-01, 06:59 PM
It could just as easily be standard anime "first battle to show how goddamn powerful I am compared to these weaklings" though :pPlus the 4th Hokage is the "legendary hero we wish were still alive" and thus he has won all his depicted fights effortlessly, even against the most powerful guys in the setting.

Fan
2011-12-01, 10:59 PM
It could just as easily be standard anime "first battle to show how goddamn powerful I am compared to these weaklings" though :p
Also,
Drizz’t & Mina (Dungeons and Dragons) vs V & Xykon (Order of the Stick)
Fighter & Black mage (8 bit theatre) vs Luffy & Crocodile (One Piece)

How are you choosing Luffy and Crocodile btw?

As far as I understand Fighter is practically (read: literally) invulnerable, and Black Mage nukes cities.

Selrahc
2011-12-02, 06:24 AM
Drizz't and Mina.

Drizz't is an unoptimized 17th level character, with a +2LA race. V is a rather unoptimized 13-14th wizard, who has notably had problems dealing with Drow. Drizz't's spell resistance, uncanny dodge, high saves and high HP will all combine to make the blaster style of V rather ineffective. V could run away, but that is a loss. Really though, that battle doesn't truly matter. Whoever wins between Xykon and Mina determines the victor.

Mina is an epic Cleric. Xykon is an epic Sorceror. Mina's epic spells seem a lot more useful than Xykons. Epic spell reflection turning Xykon's spells back against him seems like it would be a match winner.


Sora and Sephiroth

The ponies are much more fun and less confusing. But I can't in good conscience say that they are likely to win.

Top cat
2011-12-02, 11:03 AM
I'll admit I don't really know much about either universe, so a quick check on the internets led me to believe it was some mage and a guy who's good with swords vs some retarded anime pirate thingies. Maybe I should just recant since I'm not exactly making the choice based on good information. Could someone explain either set of characters?

Forum Explorer
2011-12-02, 11:59 AM
I'll admit I don't really know much about either universe, so a quick check on the internets led me to believe it was some mage and a guy who's good with swords vs some retarded anime pirate thingies. Maybe I should just recant since I'm not exactly making the choice based on good information. Could someone explain either set of characters?

Sure I'll give it a shot. I don't know much about One Piece though

Fighter: At strongest he is able to block anything and slaughter dragons by the dozen via power of suggestion. He is also so retarded he can use his stupidity as an attack. Incredibly loyal to Black Mage and able to bend the laws of physics with force of belief or something

Black Mage: Capable of destroying entire cities with one spell (but only once a day) also has plenty of other spells of mass destruction. Apparently capable of rapid teleportation stabbing as well as absorbing the evil/power of those he kills. Has horrible aim and apparently wiped out the dinosaurs. Is also a Blue Mage but only ever learned the Dreaded Goblin Punch (and its more of a kick) still he will learn their abilities as they hurt him. Capable of taking massive amounts of damage and living. Oh and when he died he took over Hell so the demons kicked him out by returning him to life.

Luffy: Has a retarded name and an awesome hat. Super strechy powers that make him immune to bullets and impact weaponry. Can still be cut though. He is very strong and decently fast. Likes to build up momentum and launch himself at enemies. Will drown if placed in water

Crocodile: All I really know is that he has powers over sand and that water really ruins his day.

turbo164
2011-12-02, 12:50 PM
To expand on Forum Explorer, here's how I see the matchup:

Luffy vs Fighter: Fighter can block anything if he tries; he once blocked the ground when he was falling from an exploding castle. He also gets stabbed in the head repeatedly by BM (he gets better) and at the only real fight he ever has with BM, he gets Evil Dark Tendril'd when he turns his back (though it is implied he could have blocked them were he still facing BM). Luffy has the speed to make his attacks very hard to dodge (Enel and Sandersonia could both read his mind and predict his attacks, yet failed to move their own bodies fast enough to react) and even when blocked can send people through walls (Lucci and Marigold). Fighter could probably block the wall, though. Luffy is also vulnerable to swords. Haki powers can do some crazy stuff, especially against the weak-willed, but Fighter has used his stupidity as a weapon in the past.

Edge: probably Fighter, especially if he blocks with the edge rather than the flat (Don Kreig etc). Haki's a potential game-changer though.

Crocodile vs Fighter - Fighter can block anything, which might include a sandstorm. However he should be quite vulnerable to the giant Ant Lion trap (which Crocodile used on Luffy the first time he left him for dead); even with his Drownball skills, I don't see him getting out without offscreen teleportation. Swords also do nothing to Crocodile unless they are wet with water/blood; so assuming he's not one-shotted by getting swallowed by the ground, Fighter would have to bloody his swords by either hitting Luffy or BM first (or Sword-Chucking himself).

Edge: Crocodile. Sandstorm gets blocked, sword counterattack does nothing, open hole ftw.

Luffy vs BM: Hadoken could win the fight instantly, but a running gag is how often it misses (including missing an entire mountain iirc). Luffy's highly resistant to force, but assuming there's heat involved it's probably lethal. If it misses, the only other spells I recall BM casting are Fire/Ice/Lightning nukes ("spending a spell slot on Feather Fall is a slot not spent on apocalyptic doom!"). Fire could work if it hits (Gear Second). Ice was shown to work well when used by an Admiral (but that was pre gear-second). Lightning Luffy is immune to. Should be a fast battle; either Luffy gets fragged by a omg-it-actually-hit Hadoken, or the followup fire/ice; or he dodges everything (or ignores lightning) and Jet Pistols BM's face. (it would be hilarious if he Blue Mage'd this by the way; if it works like Sarda's intestine spell, I would expect BM's arm to rip off when cast!)

Edge: Dice rolls.

Crocodile vs BM: If Hadoken is pure force, Croc scatters, reforms, kills BM (or scatters, kills BM, reforms). If it has heat, it could in theory turn Croc to glass, a situtation that's never come up in One Piece but should be possible. Or it could miss. Fire and Lightning could similarly work; Ice could also theoretically form enough condensation to leave Croc vulnerable. Sand slice should have the range that he might get a shot off between the Hadoken and the followup though.

Edge: Dice, and physics (CatGirl--).

Total: Really comes down to if Hadoken hits or misses (and if it's just a shockwave or not; BM did save everyone from falling by cancelling their momentum with it, and nobody was melted). Croc can handle Fighter easily, and BM's pretty squishy if 2v1'd by opponents with speed/range. Rule of Funny probably beats Plot Armor though ><

I think One Piece would theoretically win the round, but get knocked out in the following rounds by more versatile opponents; Fighter's ability to win fights be being too stupid to know it's impossible would give him a way to win ANY fight in the following rounds, a skill that's quite valuable when a lot of matchups care about Unstoppable Force vs Immovable Object power comparisons.

Forum Explorer
2011-12-02, 12:57 PM
Nice explanation

You only missed the part where Fighter can create multiple beings of himself to the point of being on something like six different team simultaneously while one team consisted of himself four times over!

turbo164
2011-12-02, 02:08 PM
You only missed the part where Fighter can create multiple beings of himself to the point of being on something like six different team simultaneously while one team consisted of himself four times over!

XD

There's also Medoken, Datacube, Gear Third, Desertification, and the fact that Thief probably snuck some fine print into the tournament rules and already has all the prize money and is charging the competitors for the air they are breathing... (don't think Nami can compete with that hehe).

Kato
2011-12-02, 02:41 PM
XD

There's also Medoken, Datacube, Gear Third, Desertification, and the fact that Thief probably snuck some fine print into the tournament rules and already has all the prize money and is charging the competitors for the air they are breathing... (don't think Nami can compete with that hehe).

Thief? Possibly. Except there are like a dozen other people who messed up his preparations....


I'm still with Fighter and BM on the fight. I like Luffy and Haki might actually change everything but... still.

Sunken Valley
2011-12-03, 04:40 PM
Gohan & Cooler (Dragonball) vs Percy Jackson & Luke (Percy Jackson)
Drizz’t & Mina (Dungeons and Dragons) vs V & Xykon (Order of the Stick)
Fighter & Black mage (8 bit theatre) vs Luffy & Crocodile (One Piece)
Lucy & Hades (Fairy Tail) vs Saber & Berserker (Nasuverse (Fate/stay night))
Beowulf & Basilisk (Fairytales and Folklore) vs 4th Hokage & Orochimaru (Naruto)
Sora & Sephiroth (Final Fantasy) vs Rainbow Dash & Nightmare Moon (My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic)
Freddy Kruger & Jason Vorhees vs Sub Zero & Reptile (Mortal Kombat)
Edward Elric & Scar (Full Metal Alchemist) vs Samus & Dark Samus (Metroid)

Top cat
2011-12-03, 07:50 PM
How exactly do ed and scar beat the samuses? I love FMA and all, but they're up against incredibly skilled ranged fighters with some weird and hard-to-avoid attacks that will totally annihilate them upon hitting. I doubt they'd be able to get close enough to transmute the armour, and apart from that I can't imagine a way they could take the metroid team down. Scar's arm is close combat only too, IIRC. Besides, touching dark samus would probably melt your arm off anyway. I'd probably actually prefer to see FMA go through because they're pretty interesting, but I can't see them winning.

Sunken Valley
2011-12-04, 06:37 AM
Results are in!

Gohan & Cooler (Dragonball) 100%
Tie
Tie
Saber & Berserker (Nasuverse (Fate/stay night)) 100%
4th Hokage & Orochimaru (Naruto) 66.6%
Tie
Sub Zero & Reptile (Mortal Kombat) 85.7%
Samus & Dark Samus (Metroid) 70%


Round 1- week 4 of 4
Goliath & Demona (Gargoyles) vs Megaman & Protoman (Mega Man)
Godzilla & MechaGodzilla (Godzilla) vs Morpheus & Agent Jones (Matrix)
Domon Kasshu & Master Asia (Gundam) vs Hulk & Magneto (Marvel Universe)
Dumbledore & Voldemort (Harry Potter) vs Apollo & Mister Rictus (Mark Millar)
Seras Victoria & Alexander Anderson (Hellsing) vs Yoshi & Bowser (Mario)
Hiro & Sylar (Heroes) vs Jack Rakan & Evangeline A.K McDowell (Mahou Sensei Negima)
Eragon & Murtagh (Inheritance Cycle) vs Elrond & Smaug (Lord of the Rings)
Link & Ganon (Legend of Zelda) vs Bugs Bunny & Tasmanian Devil (Looney Toons)

Tiebreakers
Drizz’t & Mina (Dungeons and Dragons) vs V & Xykon (Order of the Stick)
Fighter & Black mage (8 bit theatre) vs Luffy & Crocodile (One Piece)
Sora & Sephiroth (Final Fantasy) vs Rainbow Dash & Nightmare Moon (My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic)

Votes due 11th December@ 9:00am. Please vote and debate

Kato
2011-12-04, 08:36 AM
Wow... that's a lot of ties... Though I guess most are justified/were to be expected to happen... Well, we'll see who make sit, I won't interfere.


Goliath & Demona (Gargoyles) vs Megaman & Protoman (Mega Man) - I think the cyborgs/robots have the edge on this one even though I can see it either way... of course Xanatos is pulling the strings from behind the scenes and Goliath's loss will be just what he wanted :smallbiggrin:
Godzilla & MechaGodzilla (Godzilla) vs Morpheus & Agent Jones (Matrix) - Wait, didn't we have MechaGodzilla vs Jones last tourney? I forgot how tit ended... And I'm not sure how things will turn out this time.
Domon Kasshu & Master Asia (Gundam) vs Hulk & Magneto (Marvel Universe) - Of course I need to defend my entries! Two exceptional Martial Artists will curb stomp Magneto (who needs mobile suits?) and together should be able to defeat the Hulk as well. Somehow. Possibly by talking him into submission with their fists! (Yeah, I know, they will not win but I still like to give them at least this one vote. Or maybe I'm wrong and they will make it...)
Dumbledore & Voldemort (Harry Potter) vs Apollo & Mister Rictus (Mark Millar) - I don't know the latter, so... no vote.
Seras Victoria & Alexander Anderson (Hellsing) vs Yoshi & Bowser (Mario) - Vampire and Vampire Hunter, all the way. Sorry, Yoshi and Bowser you you go nothing against police woman and the power of an immortal Catholic priest.
Hiro & Sylar (Heroes) vs Jack Rakan & Evangeline A.K McDowell (Mahou Sensei Negima) - Hm... don't know MSN, but I'll say Hiro and Sylar is a pretty powerful pairing.
Eragon & Murtagh (Inheritance Cycle) vs Elrond & Smaug (Lord of the Rings) - ... Wow.... Good Fantasy against bad Fantasy, hu? :smalltongue: I'd like to vote for LotR just out of spite but I know too little about Eragon to be fair.
Link & Ganon (Legend of Zelda) vs Bugs Bunny & Tasmanian Devil (Looney Toons) - Why? To be honest: To remove the Toons. I don't like them, they rely on rule of funny far too much. (Said the guy who voted for BM and Fighter)

Selrahc
2011-12-04, 08:38 AM
Goliath & Demona (Gargoyles) vs Megaman & Protoman (Mega Man)

Pass.



Godzilla & MechaGodzilla (Godzilla) vs Morpheus & Agent Jones (Matrix)

Godzilla

Bullet dodging doesn't help to dodge a cloud of nuclear flame the size of a jumbo jet.


Domon Kasshu & Master Asia (Gundam) vs Hulk & Magneto (Marvel Universe)

Marvel
Mechas must meet their maker if matched against a mutant master of magnetism.


Dumbledore & Voldemort (Harry Potter) vs Apollo & Mister Rictus (Mark Millar)

I'm sorry, but Soviet(Red Son) Superman did not get a place on the Mark Millar team? Way I count he was the only person to get more than a single vote.

Mark Millar wins. Apollo is Superman. Mister Rictus is the Joker, except with super gadgets. Apollo alone can have both wizards knocked out before they have even registered that the fight has started.



Seras Victoria & Alexander Anderson (Hellsing) vs Yoshi & Bowser (Mario)

Hellsing.

If Yoshi is a dragon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oF9NN8-U5dY), and Bowser is GigaBowser (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-chnuP4WFGM), they still don't have much of a chance. The two Hellsing characters can essentially kite the battle, keeping away with their speed and blasting away at range with blessed bayonets and depleted uranium shells.



Hiro & Sylar (Heroes) vs Jack Rakan & Evangeline A.K McDowell (Mahou Sensei Negima)

Someone want to give some info on the Mahou people? Hiro and Sylar are both quite formidable.



Eragon & Murtagh (Inheritance Cycle) vs Elrond & Smaug (Lord of the Rings)

Lord of the Rings

Eragon verse has some powerful magic available to its protagonist. I would bet though that the raw skill of Elrond makes him better. Smaug can probably beat both of the opponents too.


Link & Ganon (Legend of Zelda) vs Bugs Bunny & Tasmanian Devil (Looney Toons)

Cartooniverse characters are always a tricky proposition. But I think one thing is pretty clear: They are their best when humiliating somebody pompous and self important, and when taking large amounts of damage.

Big mean Ganon will be a prime target. But Link is quite humble and unpreposessing. I think the fighting style of the toons is not going to work against him. With that in mind then, I vote for Legend of Zelda

Prime32
2011-12-04, 10:07 AM
Goliath & Demona (Gargoyles) vs Megaman & Protoman (Mega Man)Gargoyles never aired here.

Godzilla & MechaGodzilla (Godzilla) vs Morpheus & Agent Jones (Matrix)

Domon Kasshu & Master Asia (Gundam) vs Hulk & Magneto (Marvel Universe)The G Gundam guys could defeat Magneto on foot, but they'd need their mechs to hit Hulk with enough force to put him down. And Magneto would destroy their mechs before they could do that.

Dumbledore & Voldemort (Harry Potter) vs Apollo & Mister Rictus (Mark Millar)Don't know the Millar guys.

Seras Victoria & Alexander Anderson (Hellsing) vs Yoshi & Bowser (Mario)

Hiro & Sylar (Heroes) vs Jack Rakan & Evangeline A.K McDowell (Mahou Sensei Negima)
Eragon & Murtagh (Inheritance Cycle) vs Elrond & Smaug (Lord of the Rings)

Link & Ganon (Legend of Zelda) vs Bugs Bunny & Tasmanian Devil (Looney Toons)Though Ganon would get humiliated along the way.


1


Someone want to give some info on the Mahou people? Hiro and Sylar are both quite formidable.I'd say the Heroes characters are greatly outclassed.

http://outskirtsbattledome.wikispaces.com/Character+Profile+-+Jack+Rakan
http://outskirtsbattledome.wikispaces.com/Character+Profile+-+Evangeline+A.K.+McDowell

Their powers are skill-based so Sylar can't copy them, and Jack is unlikely to be harmed by anything short of a nuke. Plus Jack specialises in doing things that don't make sense, so he could probably break out of being frozen in time somehow. As for his attack strength...


I need to think of a finishing move for Negi. He's a lot weaker than me so I can't put much power into it. *charges up energy* Now I just need to think of a name...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=saVX9O8uqrE

Evangeline could win in one move (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=351kX70-8XI).
EDIT: A copy of Evangeline several times weaker than the original (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtTD27RFtNk)

(note: The various anime adaptations of Negima are... odd - only one really shows the cast's combat abilities at all, and it's pretty compressed. Plus Eva has her power sealed for most of their plot.)

Kato
2011-12-04, 11:20 AM
Marvel
Mechas must meet their maker if matched against a mutant master of magnetism.


Aha,sir! But Domon and Asia are also excellent fighters without their Gundams! Magneto stands little chance. If anything it is up to whether their combined power is enough to beat the Hulk which, I will admit, is in question but they might do it since they don't rely on brute force.

Selrahc
2011-12-04, 11:25 AM
The G Gundam guys could defeat Magneto on foot, but they'd need their mechs to hit Hulk with enough force to put him down. And Magneto would destroy their mechs before they could do that.

Go on then. How do they defeat Magneto on foot? Given that the X-Men can't defeat Magneto with any regularity, what do the Gundam guys have going for them?

I was actually under the impression that Gundam guys out of mechas were just skilled humans.



Don't know the Millar guys.

Well I expect one of the two (My vote is for Mr Rictus) will be replaced with Soviet Superman shortly... but...

Mr. Rictus

http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/465/104276-83779_49971_mister_rictus_super_super.jpg

Mr. Rictus (http://wanted.wikia.com/wiki/Mister_Rictus) comes from the Wanted universe, a parody of superhero comics where the villains banded together and won. Secretly controlling society. Mr. Rictus is in charge of Australasia, but is secretly angling to take down the North American chapter for himself. Rictus himself is heavily styled after the Joker, with his cronies based on the Batman Rogues Gallery.

Rictus is a man devoid of a soul, willing to do anything in pursuit of his goals. A terrifying psychopath, with good combat skill and an array of powerful weapons and gadgets. Rictus was also a mastermind, and credited himself with the take down of the superheroes. None of this stopped his swift death when Wesley decided to take him down, and he was disposed of by a single bullet to the head.

TLDR: Skilled human with gadgets.


Apollo

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/30/Apollox.jpg/205px-Apollox.jpg

Apollo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_%28comics%29) was created by a heinous super soldier program run by Bendix. He spent his first powered years working in a black ops team with his boyfriend Midnighter. When Stormwatch fell he ended up joining an elite organization of heroes called the Authority. Not content to simply watch and protect, but actively committed to improving the world. The Authority ended up clashing heavily with established governments and corporations, but also making a massive impact on the world.

Apollo was always the most powerful member of the Authority. He had immense solar based powers, being able to move at near light speed, withstand impossible amounts of damage and unleash incredible energy bursts. Apollo's only real weakness is that he can exhaust his energy reserves if left without sunlight for a long time.

TLDR: Incredible superhuman powers of speed, strength, flight and energy generation. Suffers exhaustion eventually without solar energy

Prime32
2011-12-04, 11:44 AM
Go on then. How do they defeat Magneto on foot? Given that the X-Men can't defeat Magneto with any regularity, what do the Gundam guys have going for them?

I was actually under the impression that Gundam guys out of mechas were just skilled humans.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAizwLfZbUA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PHmobQLllo

Their Gundams don't really do much other than make them bigger - they have the same abilities outside them. (G Gundam... isn't the most typical Gundam series)

Sunken Valley
2011-12-04, 11:53 AM
Red son Superman did not get two votes in one category. He got nominated twice, once as a hero and once as a villain. I picked Rictus over him because Superman is already DC universe. We already have a universe for that. I picked non-DC characters as priorities. Plus, if we had superman in this tourney, especially that superman, he would win it.

@Kato: It was MechaGodzilla vs Agent Smith in Royale 1. MechaGodzilla won.

Fan
2011-12-04, 11:59 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAizwLfZbUA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PHmobQLllo

Their Gundams don't really do much other than make them bigger - they have the same abilities outside them. (G Gundam... isn't the most typical Gundam series)

Actually, Gundanium is completely non conductive, and is also universally magnetically neutral, it's also incredibly resistant to charge, and physical blows with it's only vulnerability being beam weapons, and even then it projects an "anti field" that distorts it's incoming trajectory.

Did I mention that it's also composed of many non ferrous, and non metallic components and thus not a true metal?

The mechs are also not detectable by traditional radar, so.

Selrahc
2011-12-04, 12:30 PM
Red son Superman did not get two votes in one category. He got nominated twice, once as a hero and once as a villain. I picked Rictus over him because Superman is already DC universe. We already have a universe for that. I picked non-DC characters as priorities. Plus, if we had superman in this tourney, especially that superman, he would win it.

Oh come on.. because the character is morally ambiguous enough to serve as both a hero and a villain... he doesn't get to play in the tourney? He isn't really a hero *or* a villain, so he gets screwed over by the nomination system.
I would have voted for him as a villain in preference to Green Goblin, because Red Son is probably the most interesting thing Millar has written. To kick him out in favour of a one note loser like Rictus is just crazy.

The idea that Superman is too powerful for this is also an odd one. I count at least a dozen characters at or above Superman's power level so far and we haven't even finished the first round yet.



Actually, Gundanium is completely non conductive, and is also universally magnetically neutral, it's also incredibly resistant to charge, and physical blows with it's only vulnerability being beam weapons, and even then it projects an "anti field" that distorts it's incoming trajectory.

Fan, I've seen you make these kind of statements countless times with sketchy justification. Please provide sources.


Their Gundams don't really do much other than make them bigger - they have the same abilities outside them. (G Gundam... isn't the most typical Gundam series)

Alright, that is considerably more powerful than I'd thought. I can legitimately see that kind of person defeating Magneto. Although I think they'd still find it tough.

Sunken Valley
2011-12-04, 12:48 PM
Oh come on.. because the character is morally ambiguous enough to serve as both a hero and a villain... he doesn't get to play in the tourney? He isn't really a hero *or* a villain, so he gets screwed over by the nomination system.
I would have voted for him as a villain in preference to Green Goblin, because Red Son is probably the most interesting thing Millar has written. To kick him out in favour of a one note loser like Rictus is just crazy.

The idea that Superman is too powerful for this is also an odd one. I count at least a dozen characters at or above Superman's power level so far and we haven't even finished the first round yet.


Ah but are any of them the property of two universes? You have seen all 128 characters in this tourney. Every single one of them is the property of their own universe alone, with no others in this royale (except for the whole kingdom hearts thing which is a mix anyway). Superman is DC. Slapping a label of "Soviet" on him does not change his universe. As you can tell I've been busy lately. I haven't noticed the mistakes people made in nomination. If I had, I would have said "Superman is DC. He stays in DC.". When I put Mark Millar in there I thought it would be like Alan Moore. People would vote for characters from the Authority. Wanted. Kick Ass. Nemesis. And they did.
If you can find a good counter argument to that, I'll put "Soviet" Superman in there (which gives Mark Millar a free pass, but that's how it is).

Selrahc
2011-12-04, 01:38 PM
Ah but are any of them the property of two universes?

Three points then.

1. If you're really hard set on this policy, it might be wise to list it in the rules a little better, so people know their options a bit better. The nominations process is already fairly byzantine, having people wasting their votes is kind of bad. I know that I wasted my votes for Mark Millar and part of my votes for Alan Moore.

2. The comic books are the *biggest* categories out there. Both Marvel and DC have dozens of extremely well known superheroes, so only a bare fraction are going to be selected, generally the most well known and iconic heroes. I know I put my votes in for "Big Names" in the two comics sections. An elseworlds character like Red Son Superman is not going to be nominated. Ever. I liked the system where by throwing in a few big names comic creators into every tourney, there was something of a wildcard to throw in heroes who aren't going to be selected from the entire bundle of DC and Marvel, but nonetheless might be entertaining to debate over.

Red Son Superman is arguably Millar's most famous and most acclaimed work. If it can't be nominated under the category of Mark Millar, something is a little screwy.

I'd also like the opportunity to maybe vote for say.. Swamp Thing for Alan Moore or other characters who are technically DC, but won't be voted in under the main DC universe.

3. Under the current interpretation of the rules, any character tangentially related to DC or marvel can't be nominated. Apollo is kicked out, because the Wildstormverse is part of DC. Watchmen can't be nominated, because the Watchmenverse is part of DC. Characters like John Constantine, Dream, Supreme and others all fall under the umbrella of comics labels, despite essentially being self contained works. Superman is a DC character. Red Son Superman is more of a Mark Millar one.


Any of those arguments work? :smalltongue:

Forum Explorer
2011-12-04, 02:42 PM
[QUOTE=Sunken Valley;12321229]


Round 1- week 4 of 4
Goliath & Demona (Gargoyles) vs Megaman & Protoman (Mega Man)
Godzilla & MechaGodzilla (Godzilla) vs Morpheus & Agent Jones (Matrix)
Domon Kasshu & Master Asia (Gundam) vs Hulk & Magneto (Marvel Universe)
Dumbledore & Voldemort (Harry Potter) vs Apollo & Mister Rictus (Mark Millar)
Seras Victoria & Alexander Anderson (Hellsing) vs Yoshi & Bowser (Mario)
Hiro & Sylar (Heroes) vs Jack Rakan & Evangeline A.K McDowell (Mahou Sensei Negima) These two are incredibly powerful and can take down entire battleships with ease.
Eragon & Murtagh (Inheritance Cycle) vs Elrond & Smaug (Lord of the Rings)
Link & Ganon (Legend of Zelda) vs Bugs Bunny & Tasmanian Devil (Looney Toons)

T

Istari
2011-12-04, 02:48 PM
Seras Victoria & Alexander Anderson (Hellsing) vs Yoshi & Bowser (Mario)
Eragon & Murtagh (Inheritance Cycle) vs Elrond & Smaug (Lord of the Rings) - Both of the Riders have shown better magic than LoTR's more mystical kind and Smaug isn't going to be able to do anything against two dragons of comparable size.
Link & Ganon (Legend of Zelda) vs Bugs Bunny & Tasmanian Devil (Looney Toons)

Selrahc
2011-12-04, 03:01 PM
- Both of the Riders have shown better magic than LoTR's more mystical kind and Smaug isn't going to be able to do anything against two dragons of comparable size.

The Eragon guys get their dragons? That seems rather untoward. I would agree that they win if that is the case.

Kato
2011-12-04, 03:23 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAizwLfZbUA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PHmobQLllo

Their Gundams don't really do much other than make them bigger - they have the same abilities outside them. (G Gundam... isn't the most typical Gundam series)
Thanks for providing those. I almost forgot how awesome it was to watch these guys :smallbiggrin:
And yeah, G Gundam opposed to other shows is like the love child of Gurren Lagann and Dragonball. I have no doubt anymore they'd defeat the Hulk after stomping Magneto. Okay, not stomping but they'd win.



@Kato: It was MechaGodzilla vs Agent Smith in Royale 1. MechaGodzilla won.
Ah, Jones. Jones... who's Jones again? One of the generics, right? I still think it's hard to judge the battle...


Actually, Gundanium is completely non conductive, and is also universally magnetically neutral, it's also incredibly resistant to charge, and physical blows with it's only vulnerability being beam weapons, and even then it projects an "anti field" that distorts it's incoming trajectory.

Did I mention that it's also composed of many non ferrous, and non metallic components and thus not a true metal?

The mechs are also not detectable by traditional radar, so.
Actually... I think you picked various stuff from different shows. e.g. Gundanium was only mentioned in Wing iirc, where it indeed was non magnetic and resilient to various attacks and had other properties. But different Gundams are built very different and G Gundam's are... well... I have no idea. But Domon and Asia don't need no Gundams! (Aw, I feel like a teenager again)

Selrahc
2011-12-04, 04:01 PM
And yeah, G Gundam opposed to other shows is like the love child of Gurren Lagann and Dragonball. I have no doubt anymore they'd defeat the Hulk after stomping Magneto. Okay, not stomping but they'd win.

You know Magneto can take hits from Thor? His energy shield is *really* tough. While I can imagine them beating him, I really think they'd have a very tough time.

Hulk is just a pipe dream. Assuming this is a raged out Hulk; like World War Hulk or World Breaker, Hulk has planet busting (http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/7/78626/1414929-world_breaker_hulk_super.png) strength and can tank blows that level cities with ease, and if he is hurt he has regeneration faster than Wolverine (http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/1/10827/968752-hulk_heal_super.jpg). Hulk is the strongest one there is. They can't even really use their speed to avoid his attacks, since he can create massive shockwaves (http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/49782/1581780-thunderclap_super.jpg) hitting large areas.


I still think it's hard to judge the battle...

Have you seen Godzilla's powers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powers_and_abilities_of_Godzilla)? Even if Jones gets in close, he has to be able to take massive pulses of radioactive energy. And he really has no way to injure either Godzilla due to their immense resilience.

Istari
2011-12-04, 04:10 PM
The Eragon guys get their dragons? That seems rather untoward. I would agree that they win if that is the case.

I'm pretty sure the precedent was they got the dragons since they're basically part of them. I still think they win without dragons though, their magic is better than Elrond's magic and if a human archer can take out Smaug, Eragon's elven sense's will let him do it as well.

Fan
2011-12-04, 04:13 PM
Oh come on.. because the character is morally ambiguous enough to serve as both a hero and a villain... he doesn't get to play in the tourney? He isn't really a hero *or* a villain, so he gets screwed over by the nomination system.
I would have voted for him as a villain in preference to Green Goblin, because Red Son is probably the most interesting thing Millar has written. To kick him out in favour of a one note loser like Rictus is just crazy.

The idea that Superman is too powerful for this is also an odd one. I count at least a dozen characters at or above Superman's power level so far and we haven't even finished the first round yet.



Fan, I've seen you make these kind of statements countless times with sketchy justification. Please provide sources.



Alright, that is considerably more powerful than I'd thought. I can legitimately see that kind of person defeating Magneto. Although I think they'd still find it tough.

Go ahead and check it? (http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/Gundanium_Alloy)

Gundanium is just what is used in general for Gundam construction, especially things like Burning Gundam, and Master Gundam (both of which were constructed in Space IIRC, making them the only potential candidates in that iteration for Gundanium aside from other specials.)

Forum Explorer
2011-12-04, 04:14 PM
I'm pretty sure the precedent was they got the dragons since they're basically part of them. I still think they win without dragons though, their magic is better than Elrond's magic and if a human archer can take out Smaug, Eragon's elven sense's will let him do it as well.

To be fair the human archer had to be told where to shoot and then used a special arrow.



Go ahead and check it? (http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/Gundanium_Alloy)

Gundanium is just what is used in general for Gundam construction, especially things like Burning Gundam, and Master Gundam (both of which were constructed in Space IIRC, making them the only potential candidates in the series for Gundanium aside from other specials.)

That's not true. I know in the Gundam Seed universe none of the Gundams were constructed with that alloy. Or if it was they made exactly no mention of it and broke many of the rules mentioned in that link. (Built in an atmosphere, not particularly resistant to beam weaponry, ect.) The Gundams got that name as it formed an acronym of the start up screen on the Gundam's CPU. And it wasn't even as official name but a nickname given by Kira.

zingbat
2011-12-04, 04:50 PM
Goliath & Demona (Gargoyles) vs Megaman & Protoman (Mega Man) -- I can see this going either way, so I'm playing favourites.
Godzilla & MechaGodzilla (Godzilla) vs Morpheus & Agent Jones (Matrix) -- Stompy stomp stomp!
Domon Kasshu & Master Asia (Gundam) vs Hulk & Magneto (Marvel Universe) -- why the certainty that Gundam can whip Magneto hand-to-hand? M. is one of the most powerful mutants in the X-men universe. Also, Hulk smash.
Dumbledore & Voldemort (Harry Potter) vs Apollo & Mister Rictus (Mark Millar) -- Apollo alone can one-shot the wizards.
Seras Victoria & Alexander Anderson (Hellsing) vs Yoshi & Bowser (Mario) -- pass for now, don't know enough about Hellsing
Hiro & Sylar (Heroes) vs Jack Rakan & Evangeline A.K McDowell (Mahou Sensei Negima) -- based on the character descriptions linked above, Team Heroes is outclassed... unless Hiro manages to use his time powers effectively. My vote indicates how likely that event would be...
Eragon & Murtagh (Inheritance Cycle) vs Elrond & Smaug (Lord of the Rings) -- Dragons are separate, intelligent and self-aware characters in the Inheritance Cycle. In other words, they're allies, not equipment, and shouldn't be in the fight. Elrond's magic is weaker than Team I, but he's smarter, more experienced and can make better use of his resources. Plus, he has a dragon.
Link & Ganon (Legend of Zelda) vs Bugs Bunny & Tasmanian Devil (Looney Toons) -- Looney Toons are tricky in these battles. Team Zelda will prevail, but not before Ganon ends up unknowingly prancing about in his underwear.


Did I mention that it's also composed of many non ferrous, and non metallic components and thus not a true metal?

Doesn't matter. Magneto's powers canonically work on any type of metal, ferrous or not. As long as the alloy has a significant amount of any kind of metal in it, Magneto owes the mechs.


I have no doubt anymore they'd defeat the Hulk after stomping Magneto. Okay, not stomping but they'd win.

Whether or not they can beat Magneto is questionable, at best. See his power list here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magneto_%28comics%29#Powers_and_abilities). tl;dr: full manipulation of all metal (ferrous and non), nuclear-weapon proof force fields, invisibility, EMP pulses, increase his speed, strength and durability beyond normal human limits, highly resistant to psychic attacks. Why people think Team G. will curbstomp him is beyond me.

And then there's Hulk. The idea that Team G. could beat the Hulk, with or without their mecha, is laughable.


Red son Superman did not get two votes in one category. He got nominated twice, once as a hero and once as a villain. I picked Rictus over him because Superman is already DC universe. We already have a universe for that. I picked non-DC characters as priorities. Plus, if we had superman in this tourney, especially that superman, he would win it.

If I had known that, I would have nominated him as a hero over Apollo. :smallsmile: Red Son Superman may be a variation on the world's best-known superhero, but to me he's a separate character. When I think of Mark Millar, that's the first character I think of. I don't see why any version of Supes would automatically win the tournament. He's within the power limits, and there are other characters in the tournament with equal or greater powers. Others, while not as powerful on the whole, have attacks that Superman is vulnerable to, such as magic and telepathy.

Istari
2011-12-04, 05:23 PM
Eragon & Murtagh (Inheritance Cycle) vs Elrond & Smaug (Lord of the Rings) -- Dragons are separate, intelligent and self-aware characters in the Inheritance Cycle. In other words, they're allies, not equipment, and shouldn't be in the fight. Elrond's magic is weaker than Team I, but he's smarter, more experienced and can make better use of his resources. Plus, he has a dragon.

Upon review, Eragon doesn't get dragons, but another important question. Does Team LoTR have anything to defend against any of the words of death (snapping arteries, etc.)?

Forum Explorer
2011-12-04, 06:00 PM
Upon review, Eragon doesn't get dragons, but another important question. Does Team LoTR have anything to defend against any of the words of death (snapping arteries, etc.)?

kinda but not really. They are mentally resiliant and its standard practice to not use spells against such targets until you can read their minds. But they don't actually have any defense against the spells as far as I know.

Prime32
2011-12-05, 07:10 AM
Go ahead and check it? (http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/Gundanium_Alloy)

Gundanium is just what is used in general for Gundam construction, especially things like Burning Gundam, and Master Gundam (both of which were constructed in Space IIRC, making them the only potential candidates in that iteration for Gundanium aside from other specials.)That wiki page says that Gundanium only exists in the Gundam Wing continuity (After Colony), and all the information refers to characters from Gundam Wing. Plus G Gundam was created before Gundam Wing.

lord_khaine
2011-12-05, 07:35 AM
Domon Kasshu & Master Asia (Gundam) vs Hulk & Magneto (Marvel Universe)
I do feel like this one would go to the Marvel universe, to start with, does Gundams have anything to shield their pilots from magnetism?
For else Magneto could end this alone very quickly, simply by shutting off the blood flow of his opponents via magnetic manipulation of the iron it contains.

Hiro & Sylar (Heroes) vs Jack Rakan & Evangeline A.K McDowell (Mahou Sensei Negima)
Well, i do think that either Jack or Evangeline alone would be more than enough to win this fight, simply because i dont belive their opponents are able to hurt them in any lasting way.
The one chance Hiro have of winning would be to go back in time and prevent both Jack and Evangeline from ever being born, but good luck actualy finding this specific point in time, considering where Jack is born, and how old Evangeline is (several hundred years & Mars)
But on a side note, Jack and Evangeline really isnt enemies in any real sense, so maybe this machup should be reconsideret?

Kato
2011-12-05, 09:09 AM
Whether or not they can beat Magneto is questionable, at best. See his power list here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magneto_%28comics%29#Powers_and_abilities). tl;dr: full manipulation of all metal (ferrous and non), nuclear-weapon proof force fields, invisibility, EMP pulses, increase his speed, strength and durability beyond normal human limits, highly resistant to psychic attacks. Why people think Team G. will curbstomp him is beyond me.


Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot comic book characters at one point or another just remembered their powers could be used to e.g. strp the enemy of hemoglobin if necessary and/or got new powers which have nothing to do with their actual abilities.
While G Gundam charatcers are definitely superhuman they at least pick a frigging power level and stick to it and don't jump up and down the power scale as the plot demand. (well, only a little)
Then I'll still vote for Gundam out of spite. :smalltongue: (To me Magneto is a man who can manipulate magnetism. No nuclear force fields, no super human strength or any of that. Which means someone who kicks a skyscraper barehanded will defeat him. As for the Hulk... that's a different matter but there are two skilled and tactical opponents against one enemy. I'll give them the edge just because I want to)


Still, @Fan, stop arguing. Gundanium only applies to AC Gundams, not FC. Prime is right.

Sunken Valley
2011-12-05, 10:18 AM
I don't believe it.

The Authority is by Warren Ellis. Not Mark Millar. I was shocked.

Unfortunately it's too late to change it for round 1 but round 2...In soviet russia Superman punches you! (as the hero, because Brainiac and that general guy are the only villains in Red Son)

Although, Soviet Superman vs Harry Potter would have been hillarious. First person to get the joke why gets a cookie.

Chen
2011-12-05, 10:33 AM
To me Magneto is a man who can manipulate magnetism. No nuclear force fields, no super human strength or any of that. Which means someone who kicks a skyscraper barehanded will defeat him. As for the Hulk... that's a different matter but there are two skilled and tactical opponents against one enemy. I'll give them the edge just because I want to


So despite the characters being stated in the rules to be at their strongest you're deciding this fight by deciding they aren't at their strongest? How does that make any logical sense?

Selrahc
2011-12-05, 11:00 AM
The Authority is by Warren Ellis. Not Mark Millar. I was shocked.

Created by, but Millar did a pretty big and famous run on that comic. I've got no problems with Apollo being a Millar representative.

zingbat
2011-12-05, 11:32 AM
Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot comic book characters at one point or another just remembered their powers could be used to e.g. strp the enemy of hemoglobin if necessary and/or got new powers which have nothing to do with their actual abilities.
While G Gundam charatcers are definitely superhuman they at least pick a frigging power level and stick to it and don't jump up and down the power scale as the plot demand. (well, only a little)
Then I'll still vote for Gundam out of spite. :smalltongue: (To me Magneto is a man who can manipulate magnetism. No nuclear force fields, no super human strength or any of that. Which means someone who kicks a skyscraper barehanded will defeat him. As for the Hulk... that's a different matter but there are two skilled and tactical opponents against one enemy. I'll give them the edge just because I want to)


That's OK. I tend to spite anime characters. :smallsmile: Seriously, though, Hulk will smash them into tiny bits if Magneto doesn't crush them in their mechs.

Prime32
2011-12-05, 12:12 PM
To anyone asking how Domon + Master Asia could kill the Hulk. G Gundam infamously ends with Domon and his girlfriend killing the setting equivalent of the Devil (who has incredible evolution/regeneration powers) with the power of love (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fUJ6LehQ3I).

Now, Super Robot Wars has an alternate ending (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xii3n6xRpTw) with an even stronger attack
if you save Master Asia at the point where he died in the series

In this Battle Royale, the Bakuretsu God Finger, Sekiha Kyuukyoku Tenkyoken (Erupting God Finger, Rock-Breaking Ultimate Heaven-Frightening Fist) is usable.

Kato
2011-12-05, 03:23 PM
So despite the characters being stated in the rules to be at their strongest you're deciding this fight by deciding they aren't at their strongest? How does that make any logical sense?

a) because this is (also) a popularity contest and I'm not a big fan of comics for reasons stated above.
and
b) because I don't see the logical sense in the ability to manipulate magnetism granting you superhuman strength or the ability to create force fields because at some point in time the writers decided he needed an upgrade or whatsoever.
Yes, it might not be logical. Sue me. If he gets another dozen super powers in some arc or another I won't care either just like I don't care for 90% of Superman's Silver Age powers.

Selrahc
2011-12-05, 03:42 PM
b) because I don't see the logical sense in the ability to manipulate magnetism granting you superhuman strength or the ability to create force fields because at some point in time the writers decided he needed an upgrade or whatsoever.

The forcefield has been around since the first appearance, as well as other hard to justify powers like flight. He also has had relatively unexplained powers of telepathy in his early appearances, which have since been dropped.

Magneto has had non-magnetic powers since forever.

lord_khaine
2011-12-05, 06:04 PM
In this Battle Royale, the Bakuretsu God Finger, Sekiha Kyuukyoku Tenkyoken (Erupting God Finger, Rock-Breaking Ultimate Heaven-Frightening Fist) is usable.

Yeah, i can buy that such an attack might even take the Hulk out if he takes a clean hit.
I just think its to slow, by the time they get to aiming hulk alone would allready be burrowing though the closest Gundam, or Magneto would be doing something unpleasant to its owner.

zingbat
2011-12-06, 09:22 AM
Created by, but Millar did a pretty big and famous run on that comic. I've got no problems with Apollo being a Millar representative.

I don't think the comic book writer categories make a lot of sense, as opposed to just listing specific comic universes.

Selrahc
2011-12-06, 09:28 AM
I don't think the comic book writer categories make a lot of sense, as opposed to just listing specific comic universes.

Frankly, I think the entire nomination system is pretty crazy. Why nominate universes at all? Why have a hero and villain from each universe? Surely it would be easier just to nominate characters?

Forum Explorer
2011-12-06, 11:36 AM
Frankly, I think the entire nomination system is pretty crazy. Why nominate universes at all? Why have a hero and villain from each universe? Surely it would be easier just to nominate characters?

We would end up with too many characters from the same universe then.

Top cat
2011-12-07, 06:28 AM
Goliath & Demona (Gargoyles) vs Megaman & Protoman (Mega Man)
Godzilla & MechaGodzilla (Godzilla) vs Morpheus & Agent Jones (Matrix)
Domon Kasshu & Master Asia (Gundam) vs Hulk & Magneto (Marvel Universe)
Dumbledore & Voldemort (Harry Potter) vs Apollo & Mister Rictus (Mark Millar)
Seras Victoria & Alexander Anderson (Hellsing) vs Yoshi & Bowser (Mario)
Hiro & Sylar (Heroes) vs Jack Rakan & Evangeline A.K McDowell (Mahou Sensei Negima)
Eragon & Murtagh (Inheritance Cycle) vs Elrond & Smaug (Lord of the Rings)
Link & Ganon (Legend of Zelda) vs Bugs Bunny & Tasmanian Devil (Looney Toons)

Fan
2011-12-07, 08:00 AM
That wiki page says that Gundanium only exists in the Gundam Wing continuity (After Colony), and all the information refers to characters from Gundam Wing. Plus G Gundam was created before Gundam Wing.

I was under the impression that G Gundam wasn't a part of the official Gundam (The Century War / After Century) timeline?

And also, G Gundam has access to Gundanium from Dynasty Warriors Gundam.

Kato
2011-12-07, 10:17 AM
I was under the impression that G Gundam wasn't a part of the official Gundam (The Century War / After Century) timeline?

And also, G Gundam has access to Gundanium from Dynasty Warriors Gundam.

Okay, let's not get into any continuity in Gundam discussions... For all intents and purposes Gundanium was only mentioned in AC and not in UC, FC, AD or any other timeline. So it only applies to those. The Canon value of Dynasty Gundam... yeah... if we want to discuss that, take it to another thread but Burning/Shining/Master are not made from Gundanium, how much it may matter or not.

Sunken Valley
2011-12-10, 04:42 PM
Goliath & Demona (Gargoyles) vs Megaman & Protoman (Mega Man) Godzilla & MechaGodzilla (Godzilla) vs Morpheus & Agent Jones (Matrix)
Domon Kasshu & Master Asia (Gundam) vs Hulk & Magneto (Marvel Universe)
Dumbledore & Voldemort (Harry Potter) vs Apollo & Mister Rictus (Mark Millar) You think your little trinklets can do anything against one faster than thought itself?
Seras Victoria & Alexander Anderson (Hellsing) vs Yoshi & Bowser (Mario) Yoshi shoots the super death beam! No, that's piccolo.
Hiro & Sylar (Heroes) vs Jack Rakan & Evangeline A.K McDowell (Mahou Sensei Negima) I see nothing these guys can do to stop Sylar healing. Nothing.
Eragon & Murtagh (Inheritance Cycle) vs Elrond & Smaug (Lord of the Rings) LOTR never had words of death
Link & Ganon (Legend of Zelda) vs Bugs Bunny & Tasmanian Devil (Looney Toons) Looney Toons ain't gonna make it past round 1. Guess I'm gonna have to purge it in the great purge of BR4.

Stay tuned for 9:30am, when the three ties become shootouts.

Selrahc
2011-12-10, 05:23 PM
Stay tuned for 9:30am, when the three ties become shootouts.

I'm not entirely clear on the tiebreak system. Can I change a vote? If so, I change from Final Fantasy to Ponies and D&D to OOTS and cast a vote for 8bit Theatre. Does that resolve things? Or muddy them up? if it muddies things up, then disregard.

lord_khaine
2011-12-10, 06:39 PM
Hiro & Sylar (Heroes) vs Jack Rakan & Evangeline A.K McDowell (Mahou Sensei Negima) I see nothing these guys can do to stop Sylar healing. Nothing.

Well, i would like to point out that at the same time i dont think there is anything Sylar can do harm neither Jack nor Evangeline, while Jack does have enough power to literaly pound Sylar flat like a pancake, something that should also hit the spot in Sylars brain that shuts down all his powers.

Evangeline meanwhile could imprison him in ice permanently, and that would be enough for a victory.

Forum Explorer
2011-12-10, 11:28 PM
I'm not entirely clear on the tiebreak system. Can I change a vote? If so, I change from Final Fantasy to Ponies and D&D to OOTS and cast a vote for 8bit Theatre. Does that resolve things? Or muddy them up? if it muddies things up, then disregard.

This should solve it since polls aren't closed

Lord Loss
2011-12-10, 11:36 PM
Goliath & Demona (Gargoyles) vs Megaman & Protoman (Mega Man)
Godzilla & MechaGodzilla (Godzilla) vs Morpheus & Agent Jones (Matrix)
Domon Kasshu & Master Asia (Gundam) vs Hulk & Magneto (Marvel Universe)
Dumbledore & Voldemort (Harry Potter) vs Apollo & Mister Rictus (Mark Millar)
Seras Victoria & Alexander Anderson (Hellsing) vs Yoshi & Bowser (Mario)
Hiro & Sylar (Heroes) vs Jack Rakan & Evangeline A.K McDowell (Mahou Sensei Negima) These two are incredibly powerful and can take down entire battleships with ease.
Eragon & Murtagh (Inheritance Cycle) vs Elrond & Smaug (Lord of the Rings)
Link & Ganon (Legend of Zelda) vs Bugs Bunny & Tasmanian Devil (Looney Toons)

Forum Explorer
2011-12-11, 12:56 AM
G)
Hiro & Sylar (Heroes) vs Jack Rakan & Evangeline A.K McDowell (Mahou Sensei Negima) These two are incredibly powerful and can take down entire battleships with ease.


That's kinda funny because the same holds true for Jack and Evangeline except replace battleships with entire military force and replace ease with not a scratch on them.

Lord Loss
2011-12-11, 01:42 AM
Oh, I didn't mean to post that bit, I just quoted someone before bolding my choices and forgot to delte that comment.

Sunken Valley
2011-12-11, 03:53 AM
Results are in!

Everyone Selrach voted for won tie breakers!

Megaman 80%
Godzilla 100%
Marvel 87.5%
Hellsing 100%
Negima 83.3%
tie
Zelda 100%

LOTR and Inheritance are tied. You have until 10:30 to vote. The first vote (even if you voted before) wins the tie. If no one votes by then, I choose.

Top cat
2011-12-11, 07:02 AM
Hiro can't do that, unless he finds a convenient critical spot on a battleship. He can stab people as much as he wants, but he can't really do more than stab them.

Sunken Valley
2011-12-11, 07:30 AM
Round 2 Week 1 of 2
1 Creed & Swarmlord (Warhammer 40k) vs 32 Eragon & Murtagh (Inheritance Cycle)
3 Jack Harkness & Dalek (Doctor Who) vs 30 Fighter & Black mage (8 bit theatre)
5 Saber & Berserker (Nasuverse (Fate/stay night)) vs 28 Ichigo & Aizen (Bleach)
7Soviet Superman & Mister Rictus (Mark Millar) vs 26 Rolo & Charles Vi Britannia (Code Geass)
9 Link & Ganon (Legend of Zelda) vs 24 4th Hokage & Orochimaru (Naruto)
11 Morrigan & Flemeth (Dragon Age) vs 22 Samus & Dark Samus (Metroid)
13 Sub Zero & Reptile (Mortal Kombat) vs 20 Alphamon & D-Reaper (Digimon)
15 Smiling Jack & Divis Mal (Whitewolf) vs 18 Cohen the Barbarian & Sourceror (Discworld)

Votes due Sunday.

lord_khaine
2011-12-11, 08:08 AM
Well, its a much more even lineup we have this time.

1 Creed & Swarmlord (Warhammer 40k) vs 32 Eragon & Murtagh (Inheritance Cycle) This really is a unfair machup, the Swarmlord is one of the most brutal killing machines in the Warhammer 40k universe, and i really dont see how 2 humans can win against it, without access to its sole weakness, highpowered energy weapons.

5 Saber & Berserker (Nasuverse (Fate/stay night)) vs 28 Ichigo & Aizen (Bleach)
I would hand this victory to Aizen, simply because i dont belive his opponents have any real defence against his total illusion power.

7Soviet Superman & Mister Rictus (Mark Millar) vs 26 Rolo & Charles Vi Britannia (Code Geass)
Its a more brutal version of superman, i cant see how his opponents will even get a chance to react before they are dead.

9 Link & Ganon (Legend of Zelda) vs 24 4th Hokage & Orochimaru (Naruto)

I have trouble desiding on this one, if we are taking the most powerfull version of Ganon, then i guess he should have the Triforce, meaning he cant be harmed by any other weapon than the master sword and the silver arrows?


15 Smiling Jack & Divis Mal (Whitewolf) vs 18 Cohen the Barbarian & Sourceror (Discworld)

In this case i think victory would go to the Sourceror, who wieldet enough power to contain all the gods of the Discworld at one point.
Though at the same time, im not sure if he isnt actualy to powerfull for this competition?

Selrahc
2011-12-11, 08:38 AM
1 Creed & Swarmlord (Warhammer 40k) vs 32 Eragon & Murtagh (Inheritance Cycle)

Well, this is very similar to the last match against Eragon. A giant unstoppable monster, and a more skilled warrior. I thought the monster and the hero would have won that one, and I stand by my opinion. 40K

Smaug vs. Swarmlord would be a fun battle...


3 Jack Harkness & Dalek (Doctor Who) vs 30 Fighter & Black mage (8 bit theatre)

8 bit theatre. I think the Dalek is going to be overwhelmed. Jack is going to be at best a distraction.



7Soviet Superman & Mister Rictus (Mark Millar) vs 26 Rolo & Charles Vi Britannia (Code Geass)

Mister Rictus is such a loser... but he's going to get carried for yet another round. Millar


5 Saber & Berserker (Nasuverse (Fate/stay night)) vs 28 Ichigo & Aizen (Bleach)

Pass.





13 Sub Zero & Reptile (Mortal Kombat) vs 20 Alphamon & D-Reaper (Digimon)

Once again, the Digimon fighters are just operating on far too high a scale for the fighting game characters.


9 Link & Ganon (Legend of Zelda) vs 24 4th Hokage & Orochimaru (Naruto)

Um... Not sure yet.



11 Morrigan & Flemeth (Dragon Age) vs 22 Samus & Dark Samus (Metroid)

Oooh. This one sounds fun. Magic vs. Supertech. Not sure yet who'd win... Need to hear some more about Dragon Age capabilities.



15 Smiling Jack & Divis Mal (Whitewolf) vs 18 Cohen the Barbarian & Sourceror (Discworld)

Wow. Uh... yeah. The Sourceror is just ridiculous. There are precious few characters in this tournament I would vote to beat Divis Mal, but the Sourceror is one of them. I would in fact say that the Sourceror is too strong...

Divis might be able to talk the Sourceror into abdicating from the tournament. He is canonically supernaturally charming, persuasive and intelligent and the Sourceror was ultimately defeated by persuasion in his Discworld appearances. But in a straight out fight, even the world shaking might of Divis Mal is nothing compared to a being that plays with reality like it was putty.

Divis Mal will probably be able to avoid actively being pulled apart by magic. His ability to manipulate his own quantum signature would prevent most reality manipulations from effecting him. But that can only go so far.

Sunken Valley
2011-12-11, 10:54 AM
Sourcerors too strong? Balls. Is Belshamaroth any better?

Selrahc
2011-12-11, 11:03 AM
Sourcerors too strong? Balls. Is Belshamaroth any better?

As far as I know, Bel-shamaraoth is a complete unknown quality. The only reference to him in the books is "The Young Mens Reformed Cultists of the Ichor God Belshamaroth Association". That is the entire extent of the character. He isn't a villain, or even a character. Unless I'm really missing something...

Istari
2011-12-11, 11:58 AM
1 Creed & Swarmlord (Warhammer 40k) vs 32 Eragon & Murtagh (Inheritance Cycle) - Can someone provide some information on the Swarmlord, the only thing relevant I fond said it can parry things really well and has super strong energy sabers, but I don't thinki ts going to be able to parry magic.
3 Jack Harkness & Dalek (Doctor Who) vs 30 Fighter & Black mage (8 bit theatre)
7Soviet Superman & Mister Rictus (Mark Millar) vs 26 Rolo & Charles Vi Britannia (Code Geass)
5 Saber & Berserker (Nasuverse (Fate/stay night)) vs 28 Ichigo & Aizen (Bleach) - The servants are good, but they are mortal, Bleach is just too fast for them.
9 Link & Ganon (Legend of Zelda) vs 24 4th Hokage & Orochimaru (Naruto)
11 Morrigan & Flemeth (Dragon Age) vs 22 Samus & Dark Samus (Metroid)

Kato
2011-12-11, 12:08 PM
3 Jack Harkness & Dalek (Doctor Who) vs 30 Fighter & Black mage (8 bit theatre) - I think BM found his bestest friend ever. They will incinerate Fighter and Jack and go on to destroy the universe and live happily ever after :smallbiggrin: ooor the 8BT crew Hadokens both into orbit.
5 Saber & Berserker (Nasuverse (Fate/stay night)) vs 28 Ichigo & Aizen (Bleach) - Popularity vote.
7Soviet Superman & Mister Rictus (Mark Millar) vs 26 Rolo & Charles Vi Britannia (Code Geass) - I know they'll lose but I still want no 100% wins if the Geass crew has the tiniest chance. Rolo can still freeze time and Charles is as far as we know immortal.
9 Link & Ganon (Legend of Zelda) vs 24 4th Hokage & Orochimaru (Naruto) - U think both Piggy and Mr legendary hero are outmatched by the 4th alone.
11 Morrigan & Flemeth (Dragon Age) vs 22 Samus & Dark Samus (Metroid) - Samus has fought worse.
13 Sub Zero & Reptile (Mortal Kombat) vs 20 Alphamon & D-Reaper (Digimon) - Outclassed
15 Smiling Jack & Divis Mal (Whitewolf) vs 18 Cohen the Barbarian & Sourceror (Discworld) - not sure but I'll it to the guy who can oretty much do whatever he imagines.

Selrahc
2011-12-11, 02:21 PM
Can someone provide some information on the Swarmlord, the only thing relevant I fond said it can parry things really well and has super strong energy sabers, but I don't thinki ts going to be able to parry magic.

Ursarkar E. Creed.

http://hippiefreak12.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/ursarkar_e__creed_by_alex_boyd.jpg?w=497
Ursarkar Creed is the finest living general in the Imperium. Lord of Cadia, and in charge of defence of the greatest fortress world in the galaxy, Creed has thwarted the forces of Chaos at every turn. Creed is hundreds of years old, found by Cadian troopers in the aftermath of a chaos invasion. He spent most of his career running front line combat alongside his faithful attendant Jarran Kell. His innate brilliance allowed him to overcome even the rigid caste system of Cadia to ascend to the position of Lord Castellan.

Creed's tactical brilliance is second to none, his resolve and will is boundless and he has the highest honours that the Imperium can bestow. As a truly ancient and powerful individual, Creed is also incredibly skilled. Fighting with his matched masterwork hellpistols Creed has caused many an enemy of the Imperium to regret his skills. Creed wears a suit of custom made carapace armour complete with powerful refractor field.

TLDR: Incredible willpower, tactical brilliance, very skilled and experienced. Carries powerful laser pistols, force field, advanced body armour, grenades, scanning equipment. However, suffers from the limitation of being an elderly human in good shape.

The Swarmlord

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/thumb/2/21/Swarmlord_%28Artwork%29.jpg/180px-Swarmlord_%28Artwork%29.jpg
The hive tyrant genus is a breed apart from other strains of the Tyranid phenotype. Standing over 12' tall, covered in chitinous hide resistant to heavy ordnance and capable of ripping apart war machines with their raw strength, the true power of the Hive Tyrants actually resides in their mental capabilities. As a direct node of the Hive Mind, capabale of some degree of independent and creative action the Hive Tyrants direct the rest of the swarm, often manifesting powerful psychic abilities to help them.

The Swarmlord then, is above and beyond even the Hive Tyrants. He(or they) appear on the battlefields that give the Tyranids the most trouble, capable of incredible tactical brilliance and adaptation beyond anything that the Tyranids had previously achieved.

The Swarmlord is an impressive physical specimen, stronger and tougher than most Tyrants, and with incredible superhuman reactions that can parry almost any blow. It also has a number of powers. The Swarmlord is a potent psyker. It can rip the life force from its enemies to heal itself, and it can thrust the mind of its opponents into paroxysms of screaming agony. Its weapons are gigantic boneswords, wrapped in an aura of malevolent psychic force capable of ripping through admantium. Most remarkable of all the Swarmlord can cause tyranids around it to spontaneously evolve new and unseen mutations to deal with emergent threats. Perhaps the biggest danger of the Swarmlord though, is the raw animal cunning tempered with dark intelligence. The Swarmlord is a deceptively excellent genenral of the hivemind, and his presence has spelled the doom of billions.

TLDR: Gigantic monster covered in chitinous hide. Very intelligent and skilled. Powerful psychic attacks which can rip an enemy apart in mind, body and soul. Supremely fast.

Prime32
2011-12-11, 03:28 PM
1 Creed & Swarmlord (Warhammer 40k) vs 32 Eragon & Murtagh (Inheritance Cycle)

3 Jack Harkness & Dalek (Doctor Who) vs 30 Fighter & Black mage (8 bit theatre)

5 Saber & Berserker (Nasuverse (Fate/stay night)) vs 28 Ichigo & Aizen (Bleach)Mostly because the FSN guys have no way to stop Aizen from hypnotising them (if this was the Berserker from Fate/Zero it would be another story). Saber might be able to sense where her opponents are or even negate the illusion with her Magic Resistance, and with Excalibur + Avalon she could kill them while avoiding their attacks, but I'm not sure if she could land a hit before she runs out of mana.

7Soviet Superman & Mister Rictus (Mark Millar) vs 26 Rolo & Charles Vi Britannia (Code Geass) This depends entirely on whether Charles can Geass Superman before he's killed by him.

9 Link & Ganon (Legend of Zelda) vs 24 4th Hokage & Orochimaru (Naruto) Ganon is vulnerable to being sealed. So yeah.

11 Morrigan & Flemeth (Dragon Age) vs 22 Samus & Dark Samus (Metroid)

13 Sub Zero & Reptile (Mortal Kombat) vs 20 Alphamon & D-Reaper (Digimon)Another curbstomp.

15 Smiling Jack & Divis Mal (Whitewolf) vs 18 Cohen the Barbarian & Sourceror (Discworld)

Top cat
2011-12-11, 04:38 PM
1 Creed & Swarmlord (Warhammer 40k) vs 32 Eragon & Murtagh (Inheritance Cycle)
3 Jack Harkness & Dalek (Doctor Who) vs 30 Fighter & Black mage (8 bit theatre)
5 Saber & Berserker (Nasuverse (Fate/stay night)) vs 28 Ichigo & Aizen (Bleach)
7Soviet Superman & Mister Rictus (Mark Millar) vs 26 Rolo & Charles Vi Britannia (Code Geass)
9 Link & Ganon (Legend of Zelda) vs 24 4th Hokage & Orochimaru (Naruto)
11 Morrigan & Flemeth (Dragon Age) vs 22 Samus & Dark Samus (Metroid)
13 Sub Zero & Reptile (Mortal Kombat) vs 20 Alphamon & D-Reaper (Digimon) - pass. I know digimon will win, but can't bring myself to vote.
15 Smiling Jack & Divis Mal (Whitewolf) vs 18 Cohen the Barbarian & Sourceror (Discworld)

Top cat
2011-12-11, 04:55 PM
The sourceror isn't too strong IMO, he's just a very, very powerful wizard. He's certainly formidable, but I doubt he could, for example, planet bust, which some of the other participants could. He probably wouldn't survive some energy attacks either, and his probably human reaction speed means he can be blitz'd.


The only reference to him in the books is "The Young Mens Reformed Cultists of the Ichor God Belshamaroth Association".
It's an eldritch horror that was in the colour of magic. The reason you can't say eight. I believe it was killed by a camera flash. :|

Selrahc
2011-12-11, 05:50 PM
The sourceror isn't too strong IMO, he's just a very, very powerful wizard. He's certainly formidable, but I doubt he could, for example, planet bust, which some of the other participants could. He probably wouldn't survive some energy attacks either, and his probably human reaction speed means he can be blitz'd.

Divis Mal can do all that stuff. He's got incredibly powerful energy attacks, and is capable of creating an intense plasma cloud the size of a city. He is incredibly strong, capable of tanking and using blows which fissure the planet. He is incredibly fast, capable of warping time around himself and his opponents to complement his already massively superhuman reaction times. Divis Mal is a planet busting threat*, and one of the strongest people in the tournament.

But Coin... he just does anything he wants. The scene where he picks up the entire planet and shows it to the Wizards. Or the scene where he captures all of the gods. Or the scene where he creates his own new dimension. That all implies to me that he is a reality warper of fairly immense power. Divis Mal is a minor reality warper, with constraints which might give him some defence, but when your foe has no real limits defeat becomes inevitable.



It's an eldritch horror that was in the colour of magic. The reason you can't say eight. I believe it was killed by a camera flash. :|

Ah. I thought they were nameless actually. It still doesn't strike me as the kind of contestant that's going to be much fun.

Could we just use Granny Weatherwax? Nobody really cares that much about the Discworld villains in comparison to the heroes. Do we really need to adhere so blindly to the hero/villain system? If we put in characters that barely get two paragraphs, and is beaten by a light bulb rather than put in popular, entertaining character who got multiple votes, then something is wrong.


*And if he goes up against Superman, Goku or someone else in that category, I'll elaborate further on where he is strongest and weakest. I don't think it's going to matter all that much for this fight though.

Terry576
2011-12-11, 08:07 PM
Round 2 Week 1 of 2
1 Creed & Swarmlord (Warhammer 40k) vs 32 Eragon & Murtagh (Inheritance Cycle)

Don't know enough.



3 Jack Harkness & Dalek (Doctor Who) vs 30 Fighter & Black mage (8 bit theatre)

It really depends. Jack is vulnerable to Fighter's Death by Idiocy, but Fighter at his strongest can cut anything that moves and kill anything that bleeds. Black Mage could probably just Hadoken everything though.

Unless the Dalek moves first. Then they both die.


5 Saber & Berserker (Nasuverse (Fate/stay night)) vs 28 Ichigo & Aizen (Bleach)

Aizen is hacking the universe.



7Soviet Superman & Mister Rictus (Mark Millar) vs 26 Rolo & Charles Vi Britannia (Code Geass)

Time stopping with immortality usually wins.



9 Link & Ganon (Legend of Zelda) vs 24 4th Hokage & Orochimaru (Naruto)

Seal Ganon.



11 Morrigan & Flemeth (Dragon Age) vs 22 Samus & Dark Samus (Metroid)


Samus can't really stand up against being turned to ice.


13 Sub Zero & Reptile (Mortal Kombat) vs 20 Alphamon & D-Reaper (Digimon)

Digimon curbstomp.


15 Smiling Jack & Divis Mal (Whitewolf) vs 18 Cohen the Barbarian & Sourceror (Discworld)

/shrug

Dunno either of the materials that well.

zingbat
2011-12-11, 09:46 PM
1 Creed & Swarmlord (Warhammer 40k) vs 32 Eragon & Murtagh (Inheritance Cycle) -- Yes! Squash the badly written Mary Sue and his sidekick! Also, I'd just like to say that Lord of the Rings should not lose to Inheritance. Ever.
3 Jack Harkness & Dalek (Doctor Who) vs 30 Fighter & Black mage (8 bit theatre) -- Seems like 8 Bit Theatre runs on Rule of Funny, so the characters have whatever powers and power levels would be funniest. I'm voting against them for the same reasons I voted against Team Looney Toons.
5 Saber & Berserker (Nasuverse (Fate/stay night)) vs 28 Ichigo & Aizen (Bleach) -- pass
7Soviet Superman & Mister Rictus (Mark Millar) vs 26 Rolo & Charles Vi Britannia (Code Geass) -- Code Geass could take this with clever combined use of time freeze and mind alteration... but I doubt it would go that way. Any version of Superman is just too fast. Rictus can play in the corner with his toys. Again.
9 Link & Ganon (Legend of Zelda) vs 24 4th Hokage & Orochimaru (Naruto) Sorry, Team Zelda. Those crazy ninjas have more insane powers than I can even count. Even if they need the Master Sword and silver arrows to hurt Ganon, they can always take out Link first, since he'll be carrying them...
11 Morrigan & Flemeth (Dragon Age) vs 22 Samus & Dark Samus (Metroid) -- Anyone else want to see Samus and Dark Samus team up for real? I do.
13 Sub Zero & Reptile (Mortal Kombat) vs 20 Alphamon & D-Reaper (Digimon) -- Stupid Digimon...
15 Smiling Jack & Divis Mal (Whitewolf) vs 18 Cohen the Barbarian & Sourceror (Discworld) -- refusing to vote in protest. Coin the Sourceror is reality warper with no clear limit to his power. He's too powerful for this contest. If we leave him in he'll win easily.


Smaug vs. Swarmlord would be a fun battle...

Yes. Yes, it would have been. This is why we can't have nice things, Eragon voters.


Could we just use Granny Weatherwax? Nobody really cares that much about the Discworld villains in comparison to the heroes. Do we really need to adhere so blindly to the hero/villain system?

I like the hero/villain gimmick, but I agree that we should make an exception for Discworld. All of Pratchett's villains are basically one-shot characters by design. It's hard to think of a decent bad guy. Let's pretend Granny Weatherwax is a villain and get her in there.

Forum Explorer
2011-12-11, 10:44 PM
Round 2 Week 1 of 2
1 Creed & Swarmlord (Warhammer 40k) vs 32 Eragon & Murtagh (Inheritance Cycle) No contest at all. They try to read the Swarmlord's mind and end up eating their own eyeballs.
3 Jack Harkness & Dalek (Doctor Who) vs 30 Fighter & Black mage (8 bit theatre) It seems appropriate really.
5 Saber & Berserker (Nasuverse (Fate/stay night)) vs 28 Ichigo & Aizen (Bleach) Pass for now but what exactly are Aizen's illusion powers. I've been following the English dub. Does anyone who reads the manga/sub care to explain?

7Soviet Superman & Mister Rictus (Mark Millar) vs 26 Rolo & Charles Vi Britannia (Code Geass) Sorry but I don't think you can harm Superman.

9 Link & Ganon (Legend of Zelda) vs 24 4th Hokage & Orochimaru (Naruto) Popularity vote
11 Morrigan & Flemeth (Dragon Age) vs 22 Samus & Dark Samus (Metroid)
13 Sub Zero & Reptile (Mortal Kombat) vs 20 Alphamon & D-Reaper (Digimon)
15 Smiling Jack & Divis Mal (Whitewolf) vs 18 Cohen the Barbarian & Sourceror (Discworld)

The Sourceror isn't that bad. He is an incredibly powerful mage but apparently other mages could actually oppose him (the other wizard towers) Sure he trapped the gods in a bubble but the gods in Discworld are generally really weak. Plus he has a psychological weakspot the size of a moon.

lord_khaine
2011-12-12, 05:09 AM
The Sourceror isn't that bad. He is an incredibly powerful mage but apparently other mages could actually oppose him (the other wizard towers) Sure he trapped the gods in a bubble but the gods in Discworld are generally really weak. Plus he has a psychological weakspot the size of a moon.

Well, the main reason that the other mages had any chance of fighting back whatsoever were that the Hat could also use Sourcery, that allowed it to oppose Coin for a time.

But even then, it didnt look like Coin did much direct fighting, he removed the Gods so that the wizards had a clear playing field, and he empowered them beyond their wildest dreams, but after that he stepped back and allowed them to follow the nature of Discworld Magi.

Top cat
2011-12-12, 05:37 AM
Samus can't really stand up against being turned to ice.

She gets turned to ice all the time. It usually does like, 10 damage.

Prime32
2011-12-12, 06:42 AM
5 Saber & Berserker (Nasuverse (Fate/stay night)) vs 28 Ichigo & Aizen (Bleach) Pass for now but what exactly are Aizen's illusion powers. I've been following the English dub. Does anyone who reads the manga/sub care to explain?Anyone who sees him activate his sword, Kyoka Suigetsu, will have their five senses permanently under his control until he chooses to release them (unless they are touching the blade at the time). The illusions are sufficiently powerful that a highly perceptive medical expert was able to perform an autopsy on an illusory corpse and have only a feeling that "something is off somehow".

Saber would be resistant to this because of her Instinct ability, which gives her limited precognition and lets her fight things she can't detect. Her Magic Resistance could also cancel the illusion if it counts as a spell, though this is unlikely. If she uses Avalon (http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Avalon) before he uses Kyoka Suigetsu she would be immune, but she can't keep it up forever.

Berserker can only be affected by attacks of the highest level possible for an attacker of that class (http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/God_Hand), but the illusion almost certainly fits. If he was given his sanity here (which is possible but never occured in canon) he could resist the illusion to a limited extent with his Bravery and Eye of the Mind abilities (which reduce the effects of mental influence and visual obstruction respectively).

(I mentioned Zero Berserker because he's immune to mind control and can take control of magic swords)

lord_khaine
2011-12-12, 06:51 AM
Saber would be resistant to this because of her Instinct ability, which gives her limited precognition and lets her fight things she can't detect. Her Magic Resistance could also cancel the illusion if it counts as a spell, though this is unlikely. If she uses Avalon before he uses Kyoka Suigetsu she would be immune, but she can't keep it up forever.


I am wondering though, will Sabers Instinct ability help her avoid ending up fighting Berserker instead of Aizen because due to his illusionary trolling power?

Prime32
2011-12-12, 06:54 AM
I am wondering though, will Sabers Instinct ability help her avoid ending up fighting Berserker instead of Aizen because due to his illusionary trolling power?Exactly. That's one of the biggest obstacles here. Saber at her peak can defeat Berserker easily, but her odds in a 3-on-1 fight are poor.

As I said though, sane!Berserker would be able to figure out what was happening, and after his first appearance Aizen turns into a moron who kills his own men and doesn't hypnotise people when he has the chance.

Selrahc
2011-12-13, 05:38 AM
Are we getting a resolution on the Sourceror issue?

EDIT: And just to clarify where I stand, I would vote for the Sourceror to beat everybody else in this tournament. Probably simultaneously. While it's true that we never see him actively destroy a planet, we also never see him have any trouble doing anything at all, and accomplishing some incredible things. With his powerset being "Anything at all, with no limits", I think he's too strong. Certainly on the level of a Dr. Manhattan.

Top cat
2011-12-13, 08:30 AM
His impressive feats include trapping the gods of the discworld (some weak-ass gods, mind), creating an alternate reality (already a high-level wizard spell, but done way, way better), creating some huge tower of pure magic, occasionally killing people with no difficulty. He probably outclasses all the mages we currently have, probably even that god from D&D, but I'd still peg him as losing to characters that can massively out-speed him, characters with weird resilience, characters that can stealthily take him out, and characters that are stronger in terms of pure, ridiculous power.

Selrahc
2011-12-13, 10:23 AM
Coin walks around with powerful defensive magics in place. Outspeeding him isn't going to help. If we start him off utterly stripped of defensive magics, and leave him as a small human boy in the tournament, then yes I suppose Superspeedsters could take him out before he can think about destroying them utterly. Jack and Divis Mal could both potentially fill that role, having high levels of super speed. But it seems a little weird to have a character who can only be defeated by people who can kill him before he notices their presence.

Top cat
2011-12-13, 10:35 AM
Defensive magic isn't exactly foolproof in discworld. I doubt it'd stand up to unexpectedly powerful attacks, and I'm also reasonably sure that discworld magic can be dodged. He's certainly almost impossible to defeat in the context of the discworld. Having overwhelming power there, though, means little to nothing in the context of some of the universes we have. Taking examples from this round, a dalek coming across the sourceror would probably lose. But all the same I think a surprise shot from it would kill. If superman wasn't characteristically idiotic, he could superspeed up and knock coin's block off. Bleach characters might be able to slice his head off or overpower him with demon magic. The swarmlord could possibly sneak up and eviscerate him before he could attack. The magic might not stop samus' super missile. Personally, I'd say the sourceror would most likely win all of these, but it wouldn't by any means be a sure thing.

Selrahc
2011-12-13, 10:51 AM
I doubt it'd stand up to unexpectedly powerful attacks

Immediately upon being born, Coin was hit repeatedly with lightning bolts. His instinctive magical defences, before learning anything about how to use his powers, managed to easily absorb them.

Powerful conventional attacks then, won't cause him any trouble. *Perhaps* a sufficiently powerful one would.. but we never see one that does. I would take the repeated failures of conventional attacks, to show that it is nearly impossible to harm him. We have no idea what it would take to defeat him.

zingbat
2011-12-13, 11:03 AM
... but I'd still peg him as losing to characters that can massively out-speed him, characters with weird resilience, characters that can stealthily take him out, and characters that are stronger in terms of pure, ridiculous power.

Can you provide some examples? I'm with Selrahc on this. Coin can reshape reality with a thought. None of the teams I've seen so far has the slightest chance of taking him down in a straight fight. Teams Millar, Moore, DC, Marvel, Whitewolf, Naruto, Code Geass, Digimon and Bleach combined might be able to take him down. I doubt it, but it's possible. The Sourcer is just too powerful for this contest.

Besides, this is the first time I've heard of Divis Mal, but he sounds intriguing. I want to see Team Whitewolf in an interesting fight (against, say, one of the more powerful superhero teams). To see him go down in a curbstomp non-fight against an unlimited reality warper would be so disappointing.


Jack is vulnerable to Fighter's Death by Idiocy, but Fighter at his strongest can cut anything that moves and kill anything that bleeds.

Jack Harkness literally cannot be killed permanently. He will quickly recover from any death that leaves his body largely intact. Even if his body is blown to bits, it will reform. Of course, in that case he would lose the match, since his recovery time would be several hours (not to mention extremely painful).

To beat him in this tournament, his opponent should focus on either a less-than-lethal containment strategy (knock him out or capture him somehow), or swing to the other extreme and complete destroy his body (massive explosion, disintegration, etc). Standard attacks like shooting, slashing, stabbing or anything else that kills but leaves a body won't do it. Ditto for any kind of life- or soul-draining techniques.

lord_khaine
2011-12-13, 11:20 AM
Besides, this is the first time I've heard of Divis Mal, but he sounds intriguing. I want to see Team Whitewolf in an interesting fight (against, say, one of the more powerful superhero teams). To see him go down in a curbstomp non-fight against an unlimited reality warper would be so disappointing.

On the other hand, it sounds like Coin is one of the few entities here that can get rid of him.

Chen
2011-12-13, 11:23 AM
Immediately upon being born, Coin was hit repeatedly with lightning bolts. His instinctive magical defences, before learning anything about how to use his powers, managed to easily absorb them.


If this is the case, he is clearly far too powerful for this competition. Especially if we don't have any known limits on said protections.

Selrahc
2011-12-13, 11:33 AM
If this is the case, he is clearly far too powerful for this competition. Especially if we don't have any known limits on said protections.

Here is the scene.



"'How much longer do I have?"
Death pulled a large hourglass from the secret recesses of his robe. The two bulbs were enclosed in bars of black and gold, and the sand was nearly all in the bottom one.
OH, ABOUT NINE SECONDS.
Ipslore pulled himself up to his full and still impressive height, and extended the gleaming metal staff towards the child. A hand like a little pink crab reached out from the blanket and grasped it.
"Then let me be the first and last wizard in the history of the world to pass on his staff to his eighth son," he said slowly and sonorously. "And I charge him to use it to-"
I SHOULD HURRY UP, IF I WERE YOU...
"-the full," said Ipslore, "becoming the mightiest-"
The lightning screamed from the heart of the cloud, hit Ipslore on the point of his hat, crackled down his arm, flashed along the staff and struck the child.
The wizard vanished in a wisp of smoke. The staff glowed green, then white, then merely red-hot. The child smiled in his sleep.

Top cat
2011-12-13, 11:38 AM
Superman could do it if he moves fast enough. The fourth hokage's sealing technique could well work (but then again, possibly not). Dbz characters would probably totally annihilate him in no time flat (those guys are probably too powerful for this competition, imo). A dalek would probably kill him provided it got a shot in before it was destroyed by coin - so in practice, I guess it would lose. Samus's weapons might be too unexpected and powerful for coin to be shielded against, also phazon. The hulk might win against that sort of enemy, but I don't know enough about it to say. The ponies would win him over with the power of friendship. 40K weapons might also be too weird and powerful for coin to defend against. Jack Rakan sounds like he might be able to win (again, don't know enough about it).

A lightning bolt is pretty damn powerful. But it's nothing to some of the characters in this tournament.

Chen
2011-12-13, 12:40 PM
Here is the scene.

Hmm was it Coin or the staff that protected him there? I mean have we seen any instances of him being harmed by ...well anything? If so we can at least extrapolate a bit. Even instances of him being afraid or worried about something gives us SOME insight into what may or may not be able to harm him.

Selrahc
2011-12-13, 12:56 PM
I mean have we seen any instances of him being harmed by ...well anything?

Yes. Two things.

The main thing is his staff. It is linked with his soul, and inhabited by the spirit of his father. When his father is displeased with him, he can cause pain. When Coin eventually discards and destroys the staff it causes him intense pain, and the wizards think it kills him(although it doesn't).

As a result of that, he finds himself in the dungeon dimensions and can't use magic against its inhabitants, because they act as magic sponges. He isn't injured, but is very worried. The "things" are a foe uniquely primed to fight a sourceror. Essentially eating any magic that they encounter and becoming stronger.

Aside from that? Nothing causes difficulty or worry.

Forum Explorer
2011-12-13, 06:10 PM
Coin is also bound by the narrative rules of Discworld as well.

Selrahc
2011-12-13, 06:18 PM
Coin is also bound by the narrative rules of Discworld as well.

Except Conina and Nigel were just as useless against him as everybody else.

Forum Explorer
2011-12-13, 06:24 PM
Except Conina and Nigel were just as useless against him as everybody else.

Its been a while since I read that book. Conina was the daughter of Conan if I remember correctly but who was Nigel?

Selrahc
2011-12-13, 06:38 PM
Its been a while since I read that book. Conina was the daughter of Conan if I remember correctly but who was Nigel?

Sorry, Nijel. Nijel the Destroyer, formerly Nijel the Utilities Clerk. Barbarian hero on the make.

http://www.paulkidby.net/Nijel.jpg

(And Conina was daughter of Cohen rather than Conan)

Top cat
2011-12-13, 06:56 PM
Do you think coin would survive a blast from a hellpistol? An extremely powerful blade attack? The sealing technique? A blast from an angry dalek? I'm not sure that he'd be able to take any of those, the only things we know he can deal with is weak (relatively speaking) physical attacks - extrapolated from the fact that the wizards can protect themselves from them - lightning bolts, and magic. My gut feeling is that extremely powerful attacks would kill him just like they would anyone else.

Selrahc
2011-12-13, 07:19 PM
My gut feeling is that extremely powerful attacks would kill him just like they would anyone else.

In his last scene in the novel before departing for a self made universe, Coin mentions that he is finding it hard to stay in this reality. That it's all too fragile and thin. Without even really meaning to he is causing revisions to reality and he is worried he'll accidentally destroy existence just by his interacting with it.

And you think the answer to that is a bigger sword?