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BatRobin
2011-11-19, 03:46 PM
So I was playing Minecraft (semi-related) and this was the loading...screen...blurb...thing. :smallbiggrin:


http://i40.tinypic.com/ff08r7.jpg

GreenSerpent
2011-11-19, 03:54 PM
:D

Well, Mojang and Notch evidently have good taste in selecting memes for their loading screen.

KillianHawkeye
2011-11-19, 06:26 PM
Nice! :smallbiggrin:

Goosefarble
2011-11-19, 07:46 PM
Omfg Spoilers Notch!!!

Leecros
2011-11-20, 11:01 AM
Omfg Spoilers Notch!!!

D: He's ruined OotS for me forevers with that tiny tidbit of information!:smalleek:

Goosefarble
2011-11-20, 03:55 PM
D: He's ruined OotS for me forevers with that tiny tidbit of information!:smalleek:

Next he'll be telling me that Snape kills Dumbledore! ;_;

TheMac04
2011-11-20, 04:06 PM
Next he'll be telling me that Snape kills Dumbledore! ;_;

Dammit how could you! I didn't even...AGH!

TinyMushroom
2011-11-20, 04:10 PM
That is pure win. Period. :smallbiggrin:

FujinAkari
2011-11-21, 01:52 AM
Next he'll be telling me that Snape kills Dumbledore! ;_;

Not cool man.

Not.

Cool.

Tass
2011-11-21, 06:53 AM
Not cool man.

Not.

Cool.

I am not sure if you are serious. My sarcasm detector must be broken.

But "Snape Kills Dumbledore", annoying as it is for people who are just starting to read/watch Harry Potter, has become a meme and archetypical spoiler. If anyone had not seen that before, then they can not have spend much time on the internet.

It has even surpassed "Vader is Lukes father", "Rosebud was his sled" and "Tyler Durden is himself".

Cizak
2011-11-21, 07:28 AM
And Bruce Wayne is Batman.

Mutant Sheep
2011-11-21, 07:44 AM
And Bruce Wayne is Batman.

What? How could you! YOU RUINED BATMAN FOR ME! *goes off to be one of those Batman villains who knows who he is then dies conviently*
If Minecraft is this cool, I might have to try it.:smalleek: Nooo my game-time is disappearing! DCUO nooo!

Goosefarble
2011-11-21, 12:48 PM
{Scrubbed}

rbetieh
2011-11-21, 01:17 PM
Next he'll be telling me that Snape kills Dumbledore! ;_;

Simpsons did it! :smallcool:

Unisus
2011-11-21, 03:16 PM
I am not sure if you are serious. My sarcasm detector must be broken.

But "Snape Kills Dumbledore", annoying as it is for people who are just starting to read/watch Harry Potter, has become a meme and archetypical spoiler. If anyone had not seen that before, then they can not have spend much time on the internet.

It has even surpassed "Vader is Lukes father", "Rosebud was his sled" and "Tyler Durden is himself".

Actually i'm a lot around on the internet, but in fact this was the first time i saw this stated without a spoiler warning.

And just the fact, that there are people out there who care less than nothing about if they ruin something for others doesn't make it cool to act the same way. So i agree: Not cool.

By the way - does one have to spend much time on the internet to be allowed to read this forum?

lothofkalroth
2011-11-21, 04:48 PM
Actually i'm a lot around on the internet, but in fact this was the first time i saw this stated without a spoiler warning.

And just the fact, that there are people out there who care less than nothing about if they ruin something for others doesn't make it cool to act the same way. So i agree: Not cool.

By the way - does one have to spend much time on the internet to be allowed to read this forum?

Th main problem with "Snape kills Dumbledore" is that while it's probably the most relevant spoiler meme for our generation, the fact that it's modern also causes problems (i.e. people who are interested in reading/seeing Harry Potter, but spend enough time online to get hit by that major spoiler).

That said, I've read the Harry Potter series a number of times, and it's really not that much of a spoiler. You can tell from the beginning of that book that Dumbledore is going to die, and Rowling almost explicitly states it with the foreshadowing scene involving Snape and Draco's mom in the first few chapters. The series is still very good with that foreknowledge.

And, for the record, I've also found that it's a very common meme when people on the internet are talking about spoilers.

edit: oh, and Notch rules!

Leecros
2011-11-21, 06:34 PM
It used to annoy me quite a bit when people did the whole "Snape Kills Dumbledore" out of spoilers. It actually was spoiled for me that way, some jerk decided to spam it on a forum(in the topic title even) the day after it came out. It irritated me so much, but that was the point behind it...

MesiDoomstalker
2011-11-21, 06:52 PM
What next?

"Aries dies!"

What'sThatThing
2011-11-21, 06:56 PM
Miko dies!

MesiDoomstalker
2011-11-21, 06:58 PM
Shojo dies!

And Miko kills him!

FujinAkari
2011-11-21, 09:07 PM
I am not sure if you are serious. My sarcasm detector must be broken.

But "Snape Kills Dumbledore", annoying as it is for people who are just starting to read/watch Harry Potter, has become a meme and archetypical spoiler. If anyone had not seen that before, then they can not have spend much time on the internet.

Or you can, ya know, just not go to Harry Potter sections since you know they'll be spoilers there. People who will go to OTHER areas of the internet and drop spoilers for no bloody reason really can't hide behind "Well everyone does it!" as an excuse, since everyone most certainly does NOT do it here, lest I'd have seen it before.

:smallmad:

CloakedDancer
2011-11-21, 09:37 PM
I am not sure if you are serious. My sarcasm detector must be broken.

But "Snape Kills Dumbledore", annoying as it is for people who are just starting to read/watch Harry Potter, has become a meme and archetypical spoiler. If anyone had not seen that before, then they can not have spend much time on the internet.

It has even surpassed "Vader is Lukes father", "Rosebud was his sled" and "Tyler Durden is himself".

But the narrator was such a nice guy...

As for the Minecraft thing, that's pretty awesome.

Lateral
2011-11-21, 09:41 PM
That is awesome.

...Looks like that's a new one he added in 1.0, according to the Minecraft Wiki.

TheMac04
2011-11-21, 11:59 PM
Trigak dies

MesiDoomstalker
2011-11-22, 12:13 AM
Trigak dies

Who else in-comic can we spoil the death of? What about The Guy with the Halberd? He probably died during the siege.

Sith_Happens
2011-11-22, 03:14 AM
"Vader is Lukes father", "Rosebud was his sled" and "Tyler Durden is himself".

Wha... You mean that... But...

ARGHHHH!

Trixie
2011-11-22, 04:46 AM
Or you can, ya know, just not go to Harry Potter sections since you know they'll be spoilers there. People who will go to OTHER areas of the internet and drop spoilers for no bloody reason really can't hide behind "Well everyone does it!" as an excuse, since everyone most certainly does NOT do it here, lest I'd have seen it before.

:smallmad:

This. So much this :smallannoyed:

Zeb The Troll
2011-11-22, 06:24 AM
Or you can, ya know, just not go to Harry Potter sections since you know they'll be spoilers there. People who will go to OTHER areas of the internet and drop spoilers for no bloody reason really can't hide behind "Well everyone does it!" as an excuse, since everyone most certainly does NOT do it here, lest I'd have seen it before.

:smallmad:It's been more than six years since the book where this happened was released. I'm not sure what the statute of limits is on this sort of information, but I'm quite certain we're well past it. Heck, it's been four years since the book that explains why came out and two years since the movie showing it happen came out.

Procyonpi
2011-11-22, 06:29 AM
I am not sure if you are serious. My sarcasm detector must be broken.

But "Snape Kills Dumbledore", annoying as it is for people who are just starting to read/watch Harry Potter, has become a meme and archetypical spoiler. If anyone had not seen that before, then they can not have spend much time on the internet.

It has even surpassed "Vader is Lukes father", "Rosebud was his sled" and "Tyler Durden is himself".
While it's pretty pervasive, I'm not sure it's really surpassed "Vader is Luke's father."

Lateral
2011-11-22, 07:17 AM
While it's pretty pervasive, I'm not sure it's really surpassed "Vader is Luke's father."

See, that's the thing, that one's become so ubiquitous that it isn't a spoiler to anyone anymore. Nobody uses it as an archetypal spoiler, because everyone's already heard it.

Anarion
2011-11-22, 01:44 PM
"It was his sled" has gone so far afield that I heard the expression almost a year before I knew what movie it was talking about.

Procyonpi
2011-11-22, 07:23 PM
See, that's the thing, that one's become so ubiquitous that it isn't a spoiler to anyone anymore. Nobody uses it as an archetypal spoiler, because everyone's already heard it.

For, the record, I also think "Snape Kills Dumbledore" is pretty darn common knowledge at this point. Not being as famous as one of the most famous quotes in cinematic history ain't saying much.

Jaros
2011-11-22, 07:52 PM
"It was his sled" has gone so far afield that I heard the expression almost a year before I knew what movie it was talking about.

Not to mention the fact that, unlike the other spoilers: that one has very little to do with the actual plot. The revelation doesn't really change anything except for maybe offering interpretations as to WHY that was his last words

Thundercracker
2011-11-22, 10:41 PM
I recently spoke to someone who had never seen Star Wars before. After getting over my disbelief that it's possible for someone to get through thirty years of life without ever seeing star wars once, I asked her, "So you have no idea who Darth Vader is?"

Reply: "Darth Vader... isn't he Luke's father?"
Question 2: "So do you know who Luke is?"
Reply: "No idea."

Take from that what you will.

KoboldRevenge
2011-11-23, 12:07 AM
Who else in-comic can we spoil the death of? What about The Guy with the Halberd? He probably died during the siege.

Well Roy and Jirix Die! (but they get better.)

BatRobin
2011-11-25, 06:56 PM
Is it bad that I heard almost every spoiler in this thread while watching YuGiOh the Abridged Series? (Wait, why would that be bad...)

And yeah, that's a 1.0 blurb update :D

Randomguy
2011-11-26, 10:06 PM
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/spoiler_alert.png

While Miko kills Trigak using Vader and the Titanic sinks when it hits an 300 spartans!


Had to do it.

H Birchgrove
2011-11-27, 02:05 PM
And Bruce Wayne is Batman.

And the Shadow is actually Lamont Cranston, man about town Kent Allard, ace pilot and former secret agent.

Sith_Happens
2011-11-27, 04:48 PM
And the Shadow is actually Lamont Cranston, man about town Kent Allard, ace pilot and former secret agent.

"The Shadow?"
"The Shadow!?"
"The Shadow."

Cizak
2011-11-28, 01:39 AM
"The Shadow?"
"The Shadow!?"
"The Shadow."

"You're going to backstab him with a ballista."
"Uh huh."
"With a {Scrubbed} siege weapon!?"
"Uh huh!"
Spoiler alert: It hurt.

FujinAkari
2011-11-28, 03:41 AM
Reply: "Darth Vader... isn't he Luke's father?"
Question 2: "So do you know who Luke is?"
Reply: "No idea."

Take from that what you will.

The issue though is that the Luke spoiler is like twenty five years old, the Harry Potter one is two.

I don't know how long we wait before things are considered beyond simplification, but I imagine it is more than two.

Emanick
2011-11-28, 05:25 AM
The issue though is that the Luke spoiler is like twenty five years old, the Harry Potter one is two.

I don't know how long we wait before things are considered beyond simplification, but I imagine it is more than two.

You mean six, not two, right? :smalltongue:

Six years is more than enough time for something to become iconic, at least in the age of the Internet.

Hazzardevil
2011-11-28, 05:49 AM
Sepiroth kills Harry Potter!
Harry Potter dies! (I didn't actually realize he died in the book the first time I read it.)
Chris Paolini is a terrible writer!
Eragon kills the bloke in charge of the empire! (That's not a spoiler, everyone knows it's going to happen before the end of the first chapter.)

MesiDoomstalker
2011-11-28, 10:57 AM
Sepiroth kills Harry Potter!
Harry Potter dies! (I didn't actually realize he died in the book the first time I read it.)
Chris Paolini is a terrible writer!
Eragon kills the bloke in charge of the empire! (That's not a spoiler, everyone knows it's going to happen before the end of the first chapter.)

Ok, putting my personal opinion on Mr. Paolini's writing abilities aside, there are plenty of cases where you know the hero/heroine will kill/defeat/usurp/etc the main villian of the story within the first chapter/10 minutes/etc. I knew Harry was going to win before I was half way through Sorcerer's Stone. I knew Luke was going to overthrow the Empire within 30 minutes of watching Episode IV and I was 5. Oddly, I hadn't heard about Luke's patronage prior to that. Just because you can tell the hero/heroine is going to win in the end doesn't discredit the qualties of the writer who created the story.

And his name is Galbatorix. If your going to bash something, at least be specific. [/rant]

FujinAkari
2011-11-28, 02:59 PM
You mean six, not two, right? :smalltongue:

Six years is more than enough time for something to become iconic, at least in the age of the Internet.

Pretty sure the movie only came out two years ago...

Gift Jeraff
2011-11-28, 03:12 PM
The meme originates from people spoiling the book, and the meme is how this whole derailment started, so the movie release date is pretty irrelevant.

FujinAkari
2011-11-28, 04:18 PM
The meme originates from people spoiling the book, and the meme is how this whole derailment started, so the movie release date is pretty irrelevant.

Not if we're establishing how long an event must pass before it is no longer necessary to concern yourself with the possibility of spoiling something from it, unless you'd care to argue that everyone who rents or buys a movie is required to prove they have already read the associated book :P

Gift Jeraff
2011-11-28, 04:39 PM
I think the point people are trying to make is that they have to neither read a book nor see the appropriate film to know certain spoilers--many spoilers enter the public mind through pop cultural osmosis, and "Snape kills Dumbledore" is one of those.

Procyonpi
2011-11-28, 05:06 PM
Are we really still arguing about this?

First of all, the release date of the movie is completely irrelevant. Heck, the release date of the BOOK is completely irrelevant. What's relevant is the fact that "Snape kills Dumbledore" has been repeated to death. There are spoilers from the 3rd and 5th books I still wouldn't mention, simply because they're less common knowledge.

And seriously, how many people are gonna watch a soso movie that's been out of the theaters for over a year who hasn't read the books? Harry Potter was a literary classic, not a cinematic one.

FujinAkari
2011-11-28, 05:26 PM
I think the point people are trying to make is that they have to neither read a book nor see the appropriate film to know certain spoilers--many spoilers enter the public mind through pop cultural osmosis, and "Snape kills Dumbledore" is one of those.


Are we really still arguing about this?

First of all, the release date of the movie is completely irrelevant. Heck, the release date of the BOOK is completely irrelevant. What's relevant is the fact that "Snape kills Dumbledore" has been repeated to death..

Well, we can note that, until this thread, I didn't know that, so you can say "Well everyone knows it omg!" as many times as makes you happy, it won't change the fact that it is an out and out fabrication. :smallmad:

Cizak
2011-11-28, 06:54 PM
Pretty sure the movie only came out two years ago...

I don't really think we can go after the newest version of the story. If they did a reboot of Star Wars next year, it wouldn't be a new spoiler, it would still be 25 years old.

Unless of course the common human watches movies instead of reading books and blah blah. But still.

Nevereatcars
2011-11-28, 09:53 PM
New Desktop Background!

FlawedParadigm
2011-11-29, 12:33 AM
Frodo doesn't destroy the ring!

LudiDrizzt
2011-11-29, 12:54 AM
For the record, the generally accepted time-frame you have before you are no longer allowed to complain about spoilers is 3 years.

If you can't get your **** together in 3 years, you didn't care that much anyway.

Also, Kevin Spacey is Keyser Soze.

FujinAkari
2011-11-29, 01:28 AM
{{Scrubbed}}

FlawedParadigm
2011-11-29, 05:29 AM
I think we've pretty much jumped the shark on it anyhow, Fujin. Between The Usual Suspects spoilers and LotR spoilers (from books older than 90% of the posters here), I think we're done.

squidbreath
2011-11-29, 06:30 AM
Now how long was that up for?


"You're going to backstab him with a ballista."
"Uh huh."
"With a {Scrubbed the post, scrub the quote.} siege weapon!?"
"Uh huh!"
Spoiler alert: It hurt.

I hide behind the pile of dead bards!

Tass
2011-11-29, 06:57 AM
Or you can, ya know, just not go to Harry Potter sections since you know they'll be spoilers there. People who will go to OTHER areas of the internet and drop spoilers for no bloody reason really can't hide behind "Well everyone does it!" as an excuse, since everyone most certainly does NOT do it here, lest I'd have seen it before.

:smallmad:

I am honestly in shock over how many people hadn't heard that spoiler before. I must have frequented different parts of the internet than you (although I've seen it multiple times in the OotS forum) and no that does not include Harry Potter fora.


Well, we can note that, until this thread, I didn't know that, so you can say "Well everyone knows it omg!" as many times as makes you happy, it won't change the fact that it is an out and out fabrication.

No it is no "fabrication" (in other words: lying) because we honestly thought there were very few people had not heard that spoiler, and it would therefore do no damage. It appears that this belief is at least wrong enough that I will try to refrain from mentioning the spoiler.


Pretty sure the movie only came out two years ago...

So... :smallconfused: ... if they made a new movie adaption of the Odyssey, then it would suddenly be inappropriate talking about how "Nobody" blinded Polyphemus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphemus)?

mrmcfatty
2011-11-29, 10:19 AM
I hide behind the pile of dead bards!

"how many of those do you have?" "50!"

Procyonpi
2011-11-29, 12:31 PM
Well, we can note that, until this thread, I didn't know that, so you can say "Well everyone knows it omg!" as many times as makes you happy, it won't change the fact that it is an out and out fabrication. :smallmad:

Not Everyone has heard that Darth Vader is Luke's father. Not everyone knows that 2+2=4. Heck, there's probably someone who's lived all their life in a bunker who was never informed that the sky is blue. That doesn't mean that these things aren't common knowledge.

Gift Jeraff
2011-11-29, 12:35 PM
Look, as long as Romeo, Juliet, Old Yeller, Mufasa, Bambi's mom, Spock, and everyone in Hamlet never die, everyone is happy so I don't see why we need to keep debating this. :smallsmile:

Oh and just to show how widespread "Snape kills Dumbledore" is, just type in Snape in Google.

Adicted To
2011-11-29, 12:52 PM
Look, as long as Romeo, Juliet, Old Yeller, Mufasa, Bambi's mom, Spock, and everyone in Hamlet never die, everyone is happy so I don't see why we need to keep debating this. :smallsmile:

Oh and just to show how widespread "Snape kills Dumbledore" is, just type in Snape in Google.

About that,

They all ......

Also every spartan dies in 300. (history so more than 3 years old)

FujinAkari
2011-11-29, 01:20 PM
No it is no "fabrication" (in other words: lying) because we honestly thought there were very few people had not heard that spoiler, and it would therefore do no damage.


We should note that your justification is, in itself, contradictory.

"we honestly thought there were very few people..." So you did, in fact, acknowledge that there were some? Yet you thought spoiling it would do "no" damage? I'm confused.


Not Everyone has heard that Darth Vader is Luke's father. Not everyone knows that 2+2=4.

So you equate not watching a movie to being uneducated? Or perhaps you believe that episode 4 is as intrigal to daily functions as math? I'm really not sure what this comparison is meant to imply, to be honest...


Also every spartan dies in 300. (history so more than 3 years old)

Except... historically... they don't... :P




Nitpicking aside: many people in this thread seem adament about posting non-sequitor rebuttals and taking things to an illogical extreme. No one is claiming that nothing that ever happened should ever be discussed for fear of spoiling something but, at the same time, randomly leaping into a thread about something completely unrelated and typing things which you KNOW to be plot-centric spoilers for absolutely no reason is wrong, and I am quite frankly appauled and bewildered at the level of opposition I am getting to this idea.

FlawedParadigm
2011-11-29, 02:30 PM
I'll be honest, I never paid to see Titanic in the cinema because I already knew how it was going to end. If you want to talk spoilers...

Kish
2011-11-29, 02:56 PM
I would venture that it's abundantly obvious that the number of people who know Snape kills Dumbledore without either reading it, seeing it in the movie, or someone telling them is 0. And "a lot of people throw this spoiler around for the sake of doing so!" makes a lousy excuse for being one of them.

I would also venture that I wonder at the lack of moderator attention to this thread, whether to lock it for being profoundly off-topic or to move it to the Media forum.

Leecros
2011-11-29, 03:23 PM
The question is, at what point is it all right to deal with spoilers in such a way that it may be viewed without spoiler tags. After a certain point, i believe that the responsibility is lost on the poster(to a certain extent). At some point, someone reading a forum should see a discussion thread on the subject and make the common sense judgment "Hey, i probably shouldn't get involved in a discussion about something i haven't read/viewed yet" .

With that said, i do believe that if it's a spoiler from something different than the title portrays(like it would be now to harry potter newbies coming in to read this thread) , spoilers should be always utilized.





Also every spartan dies in 300. (history so more than 3 years old)

Lies, in all actuality Leonidas goes on to become the President of the Universe (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYVuiDgCNho).

H Birchgrove
2011-11-29, 03:40 PM
What I like about 300 is that it's the bard who makes the final victory against the Persians possible.

Cespenar
2011-11-29, 03:55 PM
Pure inconsideration.

The only thing you get out of it is "lulz", and there's a very slight chance (not zero) that it's still a spoiler to someone. That is saying that your lulz is more important than the very slight chance of ruining someone's book or movie.

For example, I got my Fight Club spoiled that way.

I also got Harry Potter spoiled that way.

Note that I'm not talking about going into a Fight Club thread, or even a movie thread, and then ranting upon seeing a spoiler. This is about throwing these stuff around just because "it's a meme" or "for lulz".

HalfDragonCube
2011-11-29, 04:48 PM
This seems to be vaguely on the topic of spoilers, so I'll throw this question in...

How do spoilers detract from a viewing experience? I've never really got the whole idea, so can someone please tell me?

P.S. That wasn't meant to sound snarky, if it did, sorry. I'm just bad at phrasing things sometimes.

Kish
2011-11-29, 05:02 PM
This seems to be vaguely on the topic of spoilers, so I'll throw this question in...

How do spoilers detract from a viewing experience? I've never really got the whole idea, so can someone please tell me?

P.S. That wasn't meant to sound snarky, if it did, sorry. I'm just bad at phrasing things sometimes.
Most people--not all, but most--enjoy being surprised. Nearly all forms of entertainment hinge on this; a CRPG never tells you both who the villain is and exactly what the villain's motivation is at the beginning, books and movies always or nearly always have twists.

bronnt
2011-11-29, 07:30 PM
Most people--not all, but most--enjoy being surprised. Nearly all forms of entertainment hinge on this; a CRPG never tells you both who the villain is and exactly what the villain's motivation is at the beginning, books and movies always or nearly always have twists.

What was the deal with "Columbo?" It takes him the whole episode to figure out who the killer is, but I always know within the first 60 seconds of the episode! He must not be a good detective.

Procyonpi
2011-11-29, 10:49 PM
Pure inconsideration.

The only thing you get out of it is "lulz", and there's a very slight chance (not zero) that it's still a spoiler to someone. That is saying that your lulz is more important than the very slight chance of ruining someone's book or movie.

For example, I got my Fight Club spoiled that way.

I also got Harry Potter spoiled that way.

Note that I'm not talking about going into a Fight Club thread, or even a movie thread, and then ranting upon seeing a spoiler. This is about throwing these stuff around just because "it's a meme" or "for lulz".

lighten up a bit. Knowing the fact that Snape kills Dumbledore doesn't really reduce your enjoyment of the 6th book. it's pretty obvious within the first couple chapters.

And really, the book's been out for 6 years. It's pretty safe to assume that pretty much anyone planning on reading it already has, or has already heard it. If I spent my time worrying about what might upset .5% of the world, I'd never say anything.

And really, there are far worse spoilers from Harry Potter.

Like the fact that Sirius Black was framed.

Leecros
2011-11-29, 11:34 PM
Knowing the fact that Snape kills Dumbledore doesn't really reduce your enjoyment of the 6th book.

That's actually absolutely not true at all. As one whom was spoiled of this particular plot point the day after the book hit the shelves because of some idiot screaming(lack of a better word) about it on a forum. Did i still enjoy the book? Yeah, i'll admit that i did. However, because someone spoiled that part of the book, i didn't get anywhere near as much enjoyment out of it because i already knew what happened. It essentially ruined the last quarter of the book.


It's pretty safe to assume that pretty much anyone planning on reading it already has, or has already heard it.

Really? Really? You do realize that your generation isn't the last one ever right? Look how popular Harry Potter is, now imagine we have the technology now to preserve this book series...indefinitely(which we more or less DO). Barring some kind of mass-extinction event, its pretty safe to assume that there's going to be millions of people reading this series. Congratulations, you're right, most people in this tiny sliver of human history whom are going to read Harry Potter, has.

Really?:smallconfused:
http://www.megatube.me/image/RA06Z5e1ZFc/default.jpg

Procyonpi
2011-11-30, 12:02 AM
Really? Really? You do realize that your generation isn't the last one ever right? Look how popular Harry Potter is, now imagine we have the technology now to preserve this book series...indefinitely(which we more or less DO). Barring some kind of mass-extinction event, its pretty safe to assume that there's going to be millions of people reading this series. Congratulations, you're right, most people in this tiny sliver of human history whom are going to read Harry Potter, has.

Really?:smallconfused:
http://www.megatube.me/image/RA06Z5e1ZFc/default.jpg

Yay for strawmen. The relevant population here is people who might be reading this thread, not people who might be reading this thread years in the future. I doubt anyone will be reading this thread two months from now, let alone a year from now.

Halna LeGavilk
2011-11-30, 12:13 AM
"The Shadow?"
"The Shadow!?"
"The Shadow."

"You seem trustworthy. Care to join our party?"

Cespenar
2011-11-30, 03:21 AM
lighten up a bit. Knowing the fact that Snape kills Dumbledore doesn't really reduce your enjoyment of the 6th book. it's pretty obvious within the first couple chapters.


It was an example. That Harry Potter spoiler was something little, and didn't reduce my enjoyment, as you said. Now, think about watching/reading Fight Club after being spoiled. Or Sixth Sense.


And really, the book's been out for 6 years. It's pretty safe to assume that pretty much anyone planning on reading it already has, or has already heard it. If I spent my time worrying about what might upset .5% of the world, I'd never say anything.

Thanks for strengthening my point. There are people outside the world who don't do things by the majority's pace, you know. There are a multitude of reasons why someone still couldn't have seen/read Harry Potter. Not thinking about stuff like this is inconsideration.

And again, I never said don't ever talk about them. I said that throwing out spoilers in completely unrelated threads just because "it's a meme" is inconsideration.

Raistlin82
2011-11-30, 03:38 PM
Spoilers ahead:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_qRZ-0a6o_sI/RmCVw0_E_qI/AAAAAAAAAKQ/5PSVEkGbRT4/s400/zoom.gif

Cizak
2011-11-30, 03:59 PM
Spoilers ahead:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_qRZ-0a6o_sI/RmCVw0_E_qI/AAAAAAAAAKQ/5PSVEkGbRT4/s400/zoom.gif

Hmm. I can only tell what three or four of those are, so I wonder what I just ruined for myself. Could be fun when I find out.

Rougn
2011-11-30, 10:18 PM
Considering jk Rowling has been yelled at by the media after the book for killing dumbledor, killing people off just because she can they say, the snape killed dumbledor has been on the news more then once, it has been used by countless comics online and offline, it was used in advertising by bookstores ((remember the is snape good or bad stuff?)) and the book and movie been out for years I would say it is ok to use the meme. To say it is unfair to those who haven't read it is pointless if they where going to read/watch it they would have even if they where going to the advertising or news beat us to the punch with spoilers. This information is common knowledge yes maybe a few people will get the spoiler but are we suppose to not say anything at all forever because it could be a spoiler? Kids today don't know the movie king kong or the titanic should I not say king kong dies or the titanic sinks? One is decades old the other really happened. I'm sorry but once something has been out this long has been used in advertising, news paper, jokes, etc etc it is rude inconsiderate and just plain idiotic to complain about it being ruined one person doing a joke for laughs that about 1 in 20 people would enjoy when one person in a million or ten million doesn't know the spoiler. Should we be punished just because we read the book?

FujinAkari
2011-11-30, 10:37 PM
So... is it something everyone knows, or is it a witty and unexpected joke? You claim it is both.

Rougn
2011-11-30, 10:52 PM
So... is it something everyone knows, or is it a witty and unexpected joke? You claim it is both.

It is both let me explain. For general purposes and for logical reason everyone equals out to vast majority. Now then the person was making a joke that everyone, again vast majority, knows Haley loved Elan by comparing it to everyone knowing snape killed dumbledor. Now since it was clearly sarcasm, since he was pretending he didn't know snape did it, we can laugh at his statement because we were not expecting him to say it. I personally laughed at his joke.

Now your turn to explain why everything can only be one thing and not many.

FujinAkari
2011-12-01, 12:40 AM
Now your turn to explain why everything can only be one thing and not many.

This may be a translation issue, but I really do not understand what you're asking here.

However, your stance falls into the same mire that all the other ones do. You acknowledge that there -will- be people who don't know information, and then you claim right to post said information on the basis of being funny to the masses that do...

Well, there are two problems:

1) It isn't funny. At all.
2) It actively encourages taking away the enjoyment of others.

Again, no one is claiming you can't ever talk about anything, but coming into a thread and posting spoilers to entirely unreferenced works is extremely crass.

If you are discussing Harry Potter, then I'd agree you can assume that most people reading have read / seen them all by now. When NOT addressing Harry Potter then what purpose does randomly posting "Snape killed Dumbledore!" serve? None.

Even in the case of a comparison, you need a lead in, "Not unlike in Harry Potter, when we found out that Snape was the one to kill Dumbledore" would be fine, since it lets the reader know you're going to be discussing something BEFORE you ruin the experience for them.

I'll be the first to admit that you can't walk around spoiling everything, forever. But by the same token you have to acknowledge that your experiences aren't universal. I spent six years arduously avoiding that spoiler. I avoided any and all discussions about the series, stopped reading any thread that began to discuss it, and actively ignored all the advertising (which was easy, not watching TV and all.) I was waiting for Netflix to feature all the movies so I could watch the whole series at once.

Now, thanks to one guy who assumes everyone know (and acknowledging he knew some people might not) I'm likely never going to watch the series at all now...

And that frustrates me.

H Birchgrove
2011-12-01, 12:47 AM
"The Shadow?"
"The Shadow!?"
"The Shadow."


"You're going to backstab him with a ballista."
"Uh huh."
"With a {Scrubbed the post, scrub the quote.} siege weapon!?"
"Uh huh!"
Spoiler alert: It hurt.


"You seem trustworthy. Care to join our party?"

I seriously don't know what you're talking about. :smallredface:

Zeb The Troll
2011-12-01, 01:34 AM
*snip*Are you honestly suggesting that the same line would have raised as much ire from you if he'd said "Next you'll be telling me that Vader is Luke's father/Soylent Green is made of people"?

Because, after the amount of time that has passed, I absolutely place these bits of information on equal footing. Good for you for avoiding it for six years, but your singular example of complete avoidance and deliberate ignorance of the subject matter for such an extended period (14 years, by your claim) is extreme and cannot be predicted. That there is anybody left who still actually cares and somehow doesn't know is not something anyone could have or should have expected.

Furthermore, if you're going to let this one little inconsequential tidbit of information ruin the entire series for you and make you not want to encounter it at all, I'm afraid you'll be missing out on a really good epic story. From what you've declared, you don't even have any frame of reference to understand why this would even be important because you made a concious decision not to read or watch along as they came out, knowing full well it would be years before it could be done in one sitting.

Frankly, Fujin, I think it's your expectations that are maybe a bit unrealistic.

@H Birchgrove - they're quoting a movie called "The Gamers" that spoofs a D&D session.

FujinAkari
2011-12-01, 02:13 AM
Are you honestly suggesting that the same line would have raised as much ire from you if he'd said "Next you'll be telling me that Vader is Luke's father/Soylent Green is made of people"?


Yes, if you start inserting "Darth Vader is Luke's Father" into the middle of every post you make, it will annoy me, a lot. There is no reason to do that.

I know you aren't talking about that, but I have explicitly denied stating that spoilers should never ever ever be posted, merely that they should only be in discussions within which they are relevant, so I'm really not interested in systematically responding to a post questioning me on a position I don't have and have already denied having :P

My expectations are that you don't go into a thread about whether Thog is dead and start saying "No way, Thog would never die because he is awesome and funny and snape kills dumbledore lololololol!"

It isn't funny, it isn't productive, and it is inconsiderate to the people who you -know- may not know that.

Bavarian itP
2011-12-01, 02:20 AM
"Dude, aren't you forgetting something?"
"Like what?"
"Like your character's paralyzing fear of water, perhaps?"
"Oh yeah, that's right ...
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAA"

On the other topic of the thread: freedom of speech >>> right of not being spoilered.

FujinAkari
2011-12-01, 02:26 AM
freedom of speech >>> right of not being spoilered.

Freedom of Speech protects you from government censorship, it is not a safeguard against having to be considerate of the people around you.

Sith_Happens
2011-12-01, 02:57 AM
Freedom of Speech protects you from government censorship, it is not a safeguard against having to be considerate of the people around you.

Oh yeah, well... [Insert name of main character from any of Shakespeare's tragedies] dies at the end.:smalltongue:


And really, there are far worse spoilers from Harry Potter.

Like the fact that Sirius Black was framed.

Huh, I had actually forgotten about that part.
Or rather, I had forgotten what it was that Sirius went to prison for in the first place, though I knew it was something separate from betraying Harry's parents, which I obviously did remember that he was framed for.

-----------------------------------------------------------

EDIT: Getting back on topic... Um... So I guess that Notch is an OotS reader then? Or at least someone at Mojang is.

Zeb The Troll
2011-12-01, 03:00 AM
My expectations are that you don't go into a thread about whether Thog is dead and start saying "No way, Thog would never die because he is awesome and funny and snape kills dumbledore lololololol!"I can't tell if you're kidding. This is a thread that was started about a Minecraft server that "spoiled" the fact that Haley loves Elan. The comment made in post #6 is very much in line with the topic as presented and not some random insertion the way you described. Your suggested line is a complete non sequitir. Goosefarble's is not, in any way. Even if the OP hadn't intended it to be that way, Goose made the bump for that very comment two posts earlier and Leecros made the set. The spike in post six was predictable, though not necessarily which spoiler he would have used.

Again I ask, would you be making this same fuss if he'd said "Vader is Luke's father" in that specific post instead of the one he used?

Cespenar
2011-12-01, 03:08 AM
Are you honestly suggesting that the same line would have raised as much ire from you if he'd said "Next you'll be telling me that Vader is Luke's father/Soylent Green is made of people"?

I had given up watching Soylent Green just because I was spoiled, because the spoiler sounded big and radical enough to moot the whole story.

Same with Sixth Sense.

Would be the same with Fight Club, but I tried to ignore that "tiny tidbit" and tried to enjoy the film, because I felt the film was more about just the plot twist. Still, I would have enjoyed it much more if I hadn't known it.

The lulz were more important than the enjoyment of my few films though, right? Will of the many and all that.

bronnt
2011-12-01, 03:30 AM
Oh yeah, well... [Insert name of main character from any of Shakespeare's tragedies] dies at the end.:smalltongue

Crap! I was going to see "Julius Caesar" this weekend! Now it's ruined!

Tass
2011-12-01, 03:34 AM
We should note that your justification is, in itself, contradictory.

"we honestly thought there were very few people..." So you did, in fact, acknowledge that there were some? Yet you thought spoiling it would do "no" damage? I'm confused.

Yes of course my wording here was not 100% mathematically correct. Substitute "no damage" for "negligible damage", or "negligible risk of any substantial damage".

(Edit: Come to think of it actually my wording made sense. I thought there were so few people who hadn't seen it that no one reading this thread were going to actually have their HP6 spoiled by reading here, since the number of readers in a thread are limited. Thus no damage.)

And no, I don't consider any risk of doing any damage at all to be unacceptable. Everything you do is subject to risk assessment and cost-benefit analysis. Taking the stairs caries a non-zero risk of falling and dying, but also gives some exercise which for most people means it will come out positive. (A slight laziness then drives the choice back to the elevator for most people). Getting in your car and driving involves a risk, not just for you, but for other people too. Yet many people would do it just to get some milk for the coffee.

The joke in post six was funny, or at least mildly amusing for many people.

Anyway, was any people actually spoiled by this? Obviously there was a few who had not seen the meme before, but was any of those also someone who had not read or watched HP6 before, and intended to at some point?

Zeb The Troll
2011-12-01, 03:34 AM
I had given up watching Soylent Green just because I was spoiled, because the spoiler sounded big and radical enough to moot the whole story.

Same with Sixth Sense.

Would be the same with Fight Club, but I tried to ignore that "tiny tidbit" and tried to enjoy the film, because I felt the film was more about just the plot twist. Still, I would have enjoyed it much more if I hadn't known it.

The lulz were more important than the enjoyment of my few films though, right? Will of the many and all that.First off, 'Snape kills Dumbledore' isn't even on the same level of important as the ones you mentioned. Snape killing Dumbledore is a tiny tidbit. Read the books or watch the movies to find out what the circumstances were, when it happened, why it happened. This information is NOT the same as ruining the ending of the story, it's just something that happens during the course of a much bigger story. This isn't a story about "Who kills Dumbledore?" "Snape did it! End of story, you don't need to watch now." It's not even a plot twist, you'd have seen it coming even if you didn't know.

Secondly, I note that you evaded the "Vader is Luke's father" question too. Those two events are much more equivalent in terms of their importance to the story. It's not the point of the story, but a hook into a deeper story.

ETA:

Anyway, was any people actually spoiled by this? Obviously there was a few who had not seen the meme before, but was any of those also someone who had not read or watched HP6 before, and intended to at some point?In point of fact, at least two people in this thread claim exactly that, that they have not read or watched but intend(ed) to at some nebulous point in the future.

Cespenar
2011-12-01, 03:52 AM
First off, 'Snape kills Dumbledore' isn't even on the same level of important as the ones you mentioned.


I was talking about the general standing on stuff like this, rather than a case-by-case analysis. I had mentioned it in my earlier post too, that Snape kills Dumbledore is not that critical a spoiler. To me, at least.

And I didn't "evade" the Vader example, because I was giving factual examples of my spoiler experiences. I'd guess knowing that exact knowledge wouldn't hurt much of the rest of the movie, but that hardly makes a point. Because people are not confining the spoilers cleverly to the non-critical ones like that. My three personal examples are perfect to illustrate that point.

Tass
2011-12-01, 05:20 AM
In point of fact, at least two people in this thread claim exactly that, that they have not read or watched but intend(ed) to at some nebulous point in the future.

Huh? Which? There are several saying "dude, not cool. It might ruin it for some." and "I had not seen that spoiler before", I can't find anyone explicitely saying it spoiled it for them, which is why I asked if it did.

If I am blind, please point out a quote.

Zeb The Troll
2011-12-01, 06:15 AM
Huh? Which? There are several saying "dude, not cool. It might ruin it for some." and "I had not seen that spoiler before", I can't find anyone explicitely saying it spoiled it for them, which is why I asked if it did.

If I am blind, please point out a quote.Well, there's this one...


Now, thanks to one guy who assumes everyone know (and acknowledging he knew some people might not) I'm likely never going to watch the series at all now...And I thought this one, but in re-reading it, it doesn't say what I remembered that it did.


I also got Harry Potter spoiled that way.Still, there is one person reading this thread who claims that this thread ruined that book/movie, nay, the entire series, which he intended to view at some point in the future.

Procyonpi
2011-12-01, 11:17 AM
Yes, if you start inserting "Darth Vader is Luke's Father" into the middle of every post you make, it will annoy me, a lot. There is no reason to do that.

So I'm not allowed to make any jokes about classic media in any discussion that wasn't already directly related to said media? Yawn.

Cespenar
2011-12-01, 01:07 PM
So I'm not allowed to make any jokes about classic media in any discussion that wasn't already directly related to said media? Yawn.

Yeah, because the only jokes in the world are one-liner plot twists, right?

Anyway, also, @FujinAkari: "Snape kills Dumbledore." shouldn't make you skip the series. I have watched it "spoiled" that way too, and it's not actually a spoiler. The real twist is something else.

Rougn
2011-12-01, 03:05 PM
This may be a translation issue, but I really do not understand what you're asking here.

However, your stance falls into the same mire that all the other ones do. You acknowledge that there -will- be people who don't know information, and then you claim right to post said information on the basis of being funny to the masses that do...

Well, there are two problems:

1) It isn't funny. At all.
2) It actively encourages taking away the enjoyment of others.

Again, no one is claiming you can't ever talk about anything, but coming into a thread and posting spoilers to entirely unreferenced works is extremely crass.

If you are discussing Harry Potter, then I'd agree you can assume that most people reading have read / seen them all by now. When NOT addressing Harry Potter then what purpose does randomly posting "Snape killed Dumbledore!" serve? None.

Even in the case of a comparison, you need a lead in, "Not unlike in Harry Potter, when we found out that Snape was the one to kill Dumbledore" would be fine, since it lets the reader know you're going to be discussing something BEFORE you ruin the experience for them.

I'll be the first to admit that you can't walk around spoiling everything, forever. But by the same token you have to acknowledge that your experiences aren't universal. I spent six years arduously avoiding that spoiler. I avoided any and all discussions about the series, stopped reading any thread that began to discuss it, and actively ignored all the advertising (which was easy, not watching TV and all.) I was waiting for Netflix to feature all the movies so I could watch the whole series at once.

Now, thanks to one guy who assumes everyone know (and acknowledging he knew some people might not) I'm likely never going to watch the series at all now...

And that frustrates me.

How long do you think it should take before we are allowed to make references then? It has been out for 6 years on paper and 2 to 3 years on film. Should we really have to wait close to 10 to 20 years to make a reference? To alot of people on the forum that is half their life and to me more then half my life, I am currently 19 years old, I can understand not telling spoilers and I was one of the people upset by that spoiler being everywhere when the book came out. I was not spoiled by it because I avoided the internet till I was done but other people where and I can understand their frustration.

To understand this enter a kindergarten class and look at the students. The book was released the same year all those students where conceived. A human was developed, birthed, taught to walk and talk, potty trained, and has started school in the time since the books release date. All that in mind can you really say the spoiler is new?

Finally you said it was not funny then you must not share the same sense of humor as other people that is understandable. However please keep in mind to other people it is funny. You are assuming we are doing it to 'spoil' the book to other people if that was the case I would start talking about the new Eragon book, A Game of Thrones, Clockwork Angel, or any of the other popular books that are alot more recent and have a bigger chance of actually ruining the books for people however THAT would be wrong. All that was done was a guy comparing a person sarcastically saying "Oh no you spoiled OOTS to me by revealing Haley loves Elan!!!" ((Which is very commonly known)) to "Snape killed Dumbledore" Again something commonly known.

ToySoldierCPlus
2011-12-01, 07:41 PM
How long do you think it should take before we are allowed to make references then? It has been out for 6 years on paper and 2 to 3 years on film. Should we really have to wait close to 10 to 20 years to make a reference? To alot of people on the forum that is half their life and to me more then half my life, I am currently 19 years old, I can understand not telling spoilers and I was one of the people upset by that spoiler being everywhere when the book came out. I was not spoiled by it because I avoided the internet till I was done but other people where and I can understand their frustration.

There was a Cracked article, one of the columns, that recommended a statute of limitations on spoiler tags of three years. Because, as mentioned earlier in the thread, if you can't get your **** together in three years and sit down and watch/read whatever the work is, that is, almost inevitably, your fault. If you weren't aware of it, I don't get blamed for the damage, because you likely wouldn't have been anyway, and if you were aware of it, you must have made a choice not to read/watch/play the media for whatever reason. Sorry to spoil it for you, but I can't be held accountable for you taking more than 2 standard deviations from the mean time it takes to experience something. That's on you. I'll link the article if I can find it.


To understand this enter a kindergarten class and look at the students. The book was released the same year all those students where conceived. A human was developed, birthed, taught to walk and talk, potty trained, and has started school in the time since the books release date. All that in mind can you really say the spoiler is new?

I mentioned this thread to my brother and informed that book came out six years ago. He and I agree: that makes us feel really old.


Finally you said it was not funny then you must not share the same sense of humor as other people that is understandable. However please keep in mind to other people it is funny. You are assuming we are doing it to 'spoil' the book to other people if that was the case I would start talking about the new Eragon book, A Game of Thrones, Clockwork Angel, or any of the other popular books that are alot more recent and have a bigger chance of actually ruining the books for people however THAT would be wrong. All that was done was a guy comparing a person sarcastically saying "Oh no you spoiled OOTS to me by revealing Haley loves Elan!!!" ((Which is very commonly known)) to "Snape killed Dumbledore" Again something commonly known.

Bingo. The point of the thread became joking about old spoilers. If it's been out for 3+ years, it's considered old, at least in the Age of Internets, and therefore can be safely spoiled without worrying about upsetting people. The minority who have actively refused to partake don't get to complain, because it's their own fault they didn't know.

Jaros
2011-12-01, 08:22 PM
To be fair, there are a LOT of things from before 2008 I haven't seen or read.

ToySoldierCPlus
2011-12-01, 08:40 PM
To be fair, there are a LOT of things from before 2008 I haven't seen or read.

Same here. Still doesn't give me any right to be upset when people are discussing them. In actual discussions, spoiler tags become unnecessary, as the thing is old enough that I should have found some way of experiencing it by now if I was going to, and if I wasn't before, as I've said, what difference does it make? As for things like this, where people are joking around about spoilers, with no real context, again, if it's that old, I don't have any right to be upset.

Jaros
2011-12-02, 06:05 AM
So you are legitimately allowed to apoil anything from more than three years ago? Does this mean if people start talking about American Gods, which I am in the middle of reading, I have no right to get annoyed if people give away key plot points without spoiler tags?

Cespenar
2011-12-02, 06:38 AM
So you are legitimately allowed to apoil anything from more than three years ago? Does this mean if people start talking about American Gods, which I am in the middle of reading, I have no right to get annoyed if people give away key plot points without spoiler tags?

Of course you've no right to get annoyed, an article on Cracked says so explicitly!

ToySoldierCPlus
2011-12-02, 07:38 AM
So you are legitimately allowed to apoil anything from more than three years ago? Does this mean if people start talking about American Gods, which I am in the middle of reading, I have no right to get annoyed if people give away key plot points without spoiler tags?

Yeah, basically. If people are discussing it, they should be able to discuss it openly at this point, without fear of reprisal for not using spoiler tags. Your best bet is to avoid discussions of the material, rather than expecting everyone else to bend over backwards to accommodate you.

Even if they're not discussing it, your right to get angry about spoilers is still limited. If people came in here and started spilling critical plot details for no reason, sorry to spoil it for you, but why didn't you read them earlier?

The point is simply that, eventually, it doesn't matter if you've read the books/seen the movies/watched the show/played the game, it's been long enough since the media became available that complaining about unmarked spoilers is just whining. As far as I'm concerned, that's three years, less for purely internet-based media.

Jaros
2011-12-02, 03:59 PM
Even if they're not discussing it, your right to get angry about spoilers is still limited. If people came in here and started spilling critical plot details for no reason, sorry to spoil it for you, but why didn't you read them earlier?

The point is simply that, eventually, it doesn't matter if you've read the books/seen the movies/watched the show/played the game, it's been long enough since the media became available that complaining about unmarked spoilers is just whining. As far as I'm concerned, that's three years, less for purely internet-based media.

I'm sorry, but I found the idea that I should read EVERYTHING within three years of it's release to be ridiculous. Is it really so hard in a andom discussion on a topic to use spoiler tags? (note: I'm referring there to when a piece of fiction comes up in a thread, eg if you are to mention American Gods now, I would prefer you to use spoiler tags for important details from later on even though it came out more than three years ago)

ToySoldierCPlus
2011-12-02, 06:16 PM
I'm sorry, but I found the idea that I should read EVERYTHING within three years of it's release to be ridiculous. Is it really so hard in a andom discussion on a topic to use spoiler tags? (note: I'm referring there to when a piece of fiction comes up in a thread, eg if you are to mention American Gods now, I would prefer you to use spoiler tags for important details from later on even though it came out more than three years ago)

I'm not expecting you to read everything. But, by the same token, you can't expect people to use spoiler tags every time they're talking about something, just because there might be people who haven't experienced it. The assumption is that one would read/watch/play the various things that one plans to within three years of release, so after that point, it becomes acceptable to talk about them without concern of spoilers, for reasons I've explained before.

In the case of American Gods, prior to you pointing out that you haven't read it and are currently working on doing so, I wouldn't have been concerned. Now that you have specifically requested nothing be spoiled from it, I can do that. Same for Harry Potter spoilers. If you don't mention that you are concerned about spoilers, you don't get to complain, because it's old enough that people shouldn't have to worry anymore.

Jaros
2011-12-02, 07:14 PM
I'm not expecting you to read everything. But, by the same token, you can't expect people to use spoiler tags every time they're talking about something, just because there might be people who haven't experienced it.

Why would this be so difficult? And I'm not talking about whenever you talk about something, but whenever you talk about spoilers.


The assumption is that one would read/watch/play the various things that one plans to within three years of release, so after that point, it becomes acceptable to talk about them without concern of spoilers, for reasons I've explained before.

There's also the case of not knowing about things in that time. I'm also in the middle of reading Discworld books, most of which were released before I knew anything about Discworld, some before I was even born, so I don't think it would be unfair to expect people to use spoiler tags when mentioning a spoiler from Discworld.

If it's a thread specifically about a piece of work, maybe. If there was a thread based on discussing/arguing points from Death Note, I untagged spoilers would be fine.

CloakedDancer
2011-12-02, 07:31 PM
So... :smallconfused: ... if they made a new movie adaption of the Odyssey, then it would suddenly be inappropriate talking about how "Nobody" blinded Polyphemus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphemus)?

OH MY GOSH! You totally ruined that for me! I had just now decided to pick up and read that book, and you just totally destroyed my enjoyment of that work. Way to go. I mean if this had been a discussion thread for the Odyssey that would be one thing, but really? In the middle of an OotS forum you just throw that out there all casual like? I am deeply disappointed. :smallfrown:

Rob Roy
2011-12-31, 10:39 PM
(I'm posting this from an IPad, so please excuse any following spelling errors.)

Why would this be so difficult? And I'm not talking about whenever you talk about something, but whenever you talk about spoilers.
Why should people go out of their way to to prevent minor annoyance to an extremely small minority?



There's also the case of not knowing about things in that time. I'm also in the middle of reading Discworld books, most of which were released before I knew anything about Discworld, some before I was even born, so I don't think it would be unfair to expect people to use spoiler tags when mentioning a spoiler from Discworld.

I haven't only read 5 of the Discworld books(and out of order), yet I understand that the first one (IIRC) was released 25 or 30 years ago. Most people that will read them, have. Besides, are spoilers so big of a deal that it will make you never want to read the books? It's not like any examples given so are less than years old, and if they were then would be rude to not spoiler it because of how recent it is. Unless it's the most recent book in the series, stuff about a thirty year old book series is not something you should have to put in spoilers.

Kish
2011-12-31, 10:58 PM
Why should people go out of their way to to prevent minor annoyance to an extremely small minority?
Why should people go out of their way to avoid annoying other people? That's a serious question?

Rob Roy
2011-12-31, 11:17 PM
Why should people go out of their way to avoid annoying other people? That's a serious question?

Obviously you shouldn't go out to annoy people(which is just plain mean), but honestly, is it that unreasonable to not spoil things that have been around for forever because one out of every thousand or so will be slightly annoyed. Asking that everyone accommodate themselves to one person is unreasonable. The way I said this was said in a way that it shouldn't have been said, but the point still stands.

****
Anyway, on the actual topic, it's pretty cool that Notch(or someone at Majong) reads OOTS.

Story Time
2012-01-01, 07:38 AM
What interests me the most about this thread is that someone said, "You spoiled a point of a story for me," and the automatic response was, "Your opinion doesn't matter." Where I come from that's called rude, and I'm glad that we have moderators who watch over these threads for just exactly that kind of incident.

Sure, people can disagree about their opinions and what they think should, or should not, be a spoiler. But what matters most is the sympathy and common decency used by the person who accidentally gave the spoiler, if any at all. Every one else is just excess baggage whose opinions do very little to rectify that very basic breech of polite conduct when the spoiler metaphorically said, "You don't matter."


On topic, though, I saw that neat little yellow text not long ago. I thought it was kind of funny. Also, MineCraft is...infectiously addicting. :smallbiggrin:

Jaros
2012-01-01, 07:39 AM
I really don't see how spoiler tags are 'going out of your way'. It is a total of 19 extra characters.

Also, Start of Darkness was released more than three years ago, and we still spoiler that.

Edit: and again, I'm mainly talking about major things here. Take Memento for example, I first watched this a few weeks ago. I would have no problem with someone spoiling the fact that it happens (mostly) in reverse, since this is apparent from pretty much the start, and is one of the things people are told about the film to gain interest. However, if someone was to talk about how John G died over a year ago, and Leonard has spent the time since being manipulated by Teddy into killing various other John/James G's for money then yes, that deserves spoiler tags.

dancrilis
2012-01-01, 10:26 AM
I basically regard spoilers as anything that has happened in media that is not make it into general conversation.

For example:
Vader is Luke's father, is not a spoiler, this was revealed over 30 years ago on a globally recognised series that has been referenced in virtually all forms of media at one point are another.

Ned Stark dies early in the series, beheaded by king Jeffrey shortly after his coronation.
This is a spoiler, why it has been out for 15 years, it has had much media around the series, it is a solid moment in the book that makes the series different from regular written, why is this different then the Luke example? Because it is not globally recognised, and the media around the series is not around that moment.

The 'Snape kills Dumbledore' line is a spoiler, the series is too new, not globally recognised, and from the way people have been talking on this topic the moment is not defining.


The internet is a global environment and before presenting a defining moment to public view people need to consider that.

Nevereatcars
2012-01-01, 10:12 PM
As a general rule, anything that is both A) easily acquired by the vast majority of people, and B) fairly popular has a spoiler tag of 3 years. If it is only A then it has a spoiler tag of 3 months to 1 year, and if it is only B then the spoiler tag stays on for five years. If something is neither A nor B, it has a spoiler tag of anywhere from six months to three years.

What'sThatThing
2012-01-03, 06:11 PM
... Why is a topic about a shout-out in Minecraft about spoiler tags?

Scrynor
2012-01-03, 06:32 PM
Purely for the sake of playing Devil's advocate:

To anyone who says spoiler tags are only needed for 3 years and that the clock always starts from the publish date of the book and not the movie - people always spoiler tag certain events from the first four books of A Song of Ice and Fire (Game of Thrones series for the HBO only crowd) and the those things came out over 7 years ago! And how pissed would you be if you watched the HBO series, started reading the books, but got spoiled on stuff yet to come...

eulmanis12
2012-01-03, 06:36 PM
I don't know but this is fun...


X marks the spot
Luke and Lea are Siblings
Elan founds a religion
Rudy gets to play for Notre Dame
Odesseyus makes it home
Achilles gets shot in the foot
Lee surrenders at Apomatix
the death star gets blown up
Robin Hood kills the Sherrif
π~3.1415926535897
The kid shoots his eye out with the red rider bb gun
The Grinch's heart grows 3 sizes
Road Runner gets away

Jaros
2012-01-03, 07:25 PM
1) Someone joked about 'Haley loves Elan' being a spoiler for them
2) Some people posted a bunch of well-known (usually) spoilers
3) Someone complained that they DIDN'T know one of the spoilers, and just had one of the Harry Potter books spoiled for them
4) A debate/discussion/argument ensued for 4 pages whereby some claimed that person #3 should've known the spoiler anyway or something, and it's not their fault it was spoiled because everyone knows it. Specific points were then argued as it went off a few tangents.



As for my 2cp the original dispute: I totally understand why you'd post that spoiler originally; in many circles its become one of those famous spoilers that is thrown out every time people joke about them (like Drath Vader is Luke's father), partly because it was something spoiled at the time. Hell, I knew people who would spam it on various forums on the release date (I thought they were jerks for this but I knew them) and I'd assume a fair few people here saw people like that too.

But after Fujin (I think it was Fujin anyway) complained he hadn't seen it, I did realise how its not as widespread as we sometimes think, and when you think about it, randomly posting spoilers like that can be kinda mean (like I said, I completely understand why, I might have done it myself under different circumstances, but I'm with Story Time on this point)


What I specifically disagree with is the whole "It's fine to post spoilers if they're a few years old" argument: It confounds me that some people are so averse to using spoiler tags for this when that is what they are for. There are plenty of reasons someone might not have seen/read something they might be interested in that's older than 3 years (or whatever time you want to use).

I know I've already used plenty of examples but here's another: I read Marvel 1602 by Neil Gaiman a few years ago and loved it. I mentioned it to some friends online and found out he was a very well regarded author. Over the next few years I slowly collected The Sandman, which was published like late 80s/early 90s and am now reading American Gods, which recently had a 10th anniversary edition printed. Now if some people on here were to talk about events that happened later on in that book, I think it would be common courtesy to use spoiler tags.

Super_slash2
2012-01-13, 12:24 PM
I know a 17 yr old friend who has not seen any episodes of star wars because he watched The Phantom Menace, didn't like it, heard the others were being revised to be more like and so dropped the whole affair. He may or may not know that Luke is Darth Vader's son but to imply that everyone has the same knowledge of every topic is being abit simplistic, simply because new people enter the field all the time. People who are not sci-fi guys or movie-goers or had the wrong group of friends or who use the internet to look up recipes for casseroles. I'm not arguing about the relevance of spoilers to these people's enjoyment but more about the argument that anyone whose expectations would be spoilt would already know them.

I think Fujin views the act of spoilering in general chatter a form of trolling, especially when used in full knowledge that you're ruining a way the story will unfold for someone else. It makes sense then that to spoil would be a very offensive thing, since it is basicly griefing that can be done without warning that you can never undo. It also makes sense that his point is getting lost in the discussion since alot of the people who already know the twists cannot be griefed in this manner so the impact of why these spoilers are bad is really muted.

You can also just consider, like, a thought experiment. If someone is new to fantasy stories, one of the common things to recommend would be Lord of the Rings and/or Harry Potter. But surprise, you know from book 1 that Snape kills Dumbledore so you can just count off the books till he bites it. Or that Gandalf gets reborn so there's no real loss when he dies to the Balrog.

I feel that a big problem is the assumption that everyone who comes to these forums or who would frequent similar parts of the internet all come from a shared background, which can be true alot of the time but also false a fair bit of the time. In terms of what is essentially pop culture knowledge for nerds, what some people would consider well-known, others might not be aware even exists. The Usual Suspects is OLD. There are ALOT of people who do not know that movie even exists.

Also, another thing : spoilers can ruin the enjoyment of a well-told story. The Usual Suspects is built on this, watching it knowing the ending and watching it without is substantially different. It's the same with The Sixth Sense and remember, you can NEVER undo it (unless you get some mind-wipe thing going). Even movies not based primarily on spoilers can have this - Memento is a very good movie that makes full use of hiding knowledge from the viewer at key times. Having any part of it spoilt can substantially change how you view the movie.

Well, I guess I did want to argue on the relevance of spoilers. Also, sorry for rambling.

Super_slash2
2012-01-13, 12:26 PM
forums causing double posts

Soylent Dave
2012-01-13, 09:00 PM
What I specifically disagree with is the whole "It's fine to post spoilers if they're a few years old" argument: It confounds me that some people are so averse to using spoiler tags for this when that is what they are for.


The argument is more that they aren't spoilers any more.

Obviously for some people they are; for some people, somewhere, anything can be a spoiler. But is it really sensible to run anything I might say through a filter of "hang on - is there something in there that someone, somewhere, might not have heard before?"

To use your American Gods example - you've specifically asked people in this thread not to spoil it, so it would be pretty rude if I just started blurting out plot points from the book.

But if you hadn't asked that, and the plot of American Gods - a ten year-old book - came up, I wouldn't necessarily expect nor want everything said about it to be spoiler-tagged.

Because those 'extra 19 characters' are an extra bit of effort, as is expecting readers to open the tag - and to be honest it's an excessive amount of effort when we're talking about potentially avoiding spoilers for a tiny minority of people who've not read the book yet but are planning on reading it in the future (AND are reading this thread).

If the intent is just to ruin the plot for someone, then spoilers are rude. If you're talking about something which has only just come out, then you're being thoughtless.

But censoring every conversation you have for the rest of time? That's expecting too much of people.

The burden of not getting old stories spoiled rests on the shoulders of he who doesn't want his story spoiled.

Story Time
2012-01-13, 10:11 PM
...new lives are being born into the world every day. There will always be someone who has not seen Star Wars yet, or any number of other films that members of this forum could name. What is and is not a spoiler is the perspective of the viewer themselves. Choosing not to be sensitive and considerate about whether someone has seen a film, or not, is a decision that means much more than the amount time that has passed since a film or book was released.

Finn Solomon
2012-01-16, 08:25 AM
Ah but does Elan love Haley?

Ehra
2012-01-16, 10:26 AM
[QUOTE=Jaros;12314504]Why would this be so difficult? And I'm not talking about whenever you talk about something, but whenever you talk about spoilers.
[quote]

Because literally any discussion about any literary work or form of media would be a spoiler to someone who has never experienced it. Saying that Harry Potter is a wizard is also technically a spoiler but no one worries about saying it because it should be known.

For what it's worth I also had the Snape thing spoiled days after release. Didn't ruin my enjoyment of the book. Heck, having the Watchmen "spoiled" for me on these very forums in a thread about D&D morality was what got me to read it. It seemed like an interesting twist.

FujinAkari
2012-01-16, 06:48 PM
Update: Someone actually got me the complete blu-ray set of Harry Potter for christmas, and I've managed to watch one so far, but watching the first movie still really made me irritable since I now know what is going to happen X_x

I do think I'll eventually make it through them all, but I imagine it wouldn't be the struggle to want to watch them that it currently is.

WinterGreen
2012-01-16, 07:35 PM
I know a 17 yr old friend who has not seen any episodes of star wars because he watched The Phantom Menace, didn't like it, heard the others were being revised to be more like and so dropped the whole affair. He may or may not know that Luke is Darth Vader's son but to imply that everyone has the same knowledge of every topic is being abit simplistic, simply because new people enter the field all the time. People who are not sci-fi guys or movie-goers or had the wrong group of friends or who use the internet to look up recipes for casseroles. I'm not arguing about the relevance of spoilers to these people's enjoyment but more about the argument that anyone whose expectations would be spoilt would already know them.

I think Fujin views the act of spoilering in general chatter a form of trolling, especially when used in full knowledge that you're ruining a way the story will unfold for someone else. It makes sense then that to spoil would be a very offensive thing, since it is basicly griefing that can be done without warning that you can never undo. It also makes sense that his point is getting lost in the discussion since alot of the people who already know the twists cannot be griefed in this manner so the impact of why these spoilers are bad is really muted.

You can also just consider, like, a thought experiment. If someone is new to fantasy stories, one of the common things to recommend would be Lord of the Rings and/or Harry Potter. But surprise, you know from book 1 that Snape kills Dumbledore so you can just count off the books till he bites it. Or that Gandalf gets reborn so there's no real loss when he dies to the Balrog.

I feel that a big problem is the assumption that everyone who comes to these forums or who would frequent similar parts of the internet all come from a shared background, which can be true alot of the time but also false a fair bit of the time. In terms of what is essentially pop culture knowledge for nerds, what some people would consider well-known, others might not be aware even exists. The Usual Suspects is OLD. There are ALOT of people who do not know that movie even exists.

Also, another thing : spoilers can ruin the enjoyment of a well-told story. The Usual Suspects is built on this, watching it knowing the ending and watching it without is substantially different. It's the same with The Sixth Sense and remember, you can NEVER undo it (unless you get some mind-wipe thing going). Even movies not based primarily on spoilers can have this - Memento is a very good movie that makes full use of hiding knowledge from the viewer at key times. Having any part of it spoilt can substantially change how you view the movie.

Well, I guess I did want to argue on the relevance of spoilers. Also, sorry for rambling.

i never watched star wars because i saw the Star Wars christmas special on VHS. .........a nightmare of sorts. Lucas demanded the videos be burned.

martianmister
2012-01-17, 09:56 AM
Ah but does Elan love Haley?

This. imma gonna kill you alll

Bedinsis
2012-01-17, 10:24 AM
So Notch (or someone else at Mojang) reads OotS? Apparently he (or someone else at Mojang) has a good taste.

Cizak
2012-01-17, 10:48 AM
Update: Someone actually got me the complete blu-ray set of Harry Potter for christmas, and I've managed to watch one so far, but watching the first movie still really made me irritable since I now know what is going to happen X_x

I do think I'll eventually make it through them all, but I imagine it wouldn't be the struggle to want to watch them that it currently is.

Oh don't worry, you won't make it through them. They are horrendous.

KoboldRevenge
2012-01-17, 01:23 PM
Huh It's pretty cool that Notch or someone at Mojang reads OotS.:smalltongue:

But would that be cool to have a Roy Skin? or any of the groovy gooneys?

Ingus
2012-01-17, 06:23 PM
Spoiler = to spoil. A hint is not a spoiler, is just a hint.
If you say Luke Skywalker is a sort of futuristic knight you don't spoil Star Wars; if you reveal that his arch-enemy is his father, you might.

As a side note, you better don't know what happened with Sixt Sense, Memento and The Usual Suspects: they were all spoiled to me.
The latter still pisses me off

Knowing that Kaiser Sose was Darth Vader pretty ruined all the movie

shaddy_24
2012-01-21, 09:29 PM
Update: Someone actually got me the complete blu-ray set of Harry Potter for christmas, and I've managed to watch one so far, but watching the first movie still really made me irritable since I now know what is going to happen X_x

I do think I'll eventually make it through them all, but I imagine it wouldn't be the struggle to want to watch them that it currently is.

Maybe it's just me, but I really don't see why a single spoiler from one part of the series ruins the entire series. If this was something that the entire series hinged on, maybe. Fight Club or Sixth Sense for example. But Harry Potter isn't about finding out who killed Dumbledore. That's one spoiler out of literally hundreds, and it wasn't even a spoiler to me. I saw it coming very far in advance. If someone had told me before I read the book, I might have simply noticed it a little earlier. There's a lot more stuff going on, and finding out why things happen is a much bigger deal then that one single event. Heck, there's things in earlier and later books that I would consider to be much more detrimental to reading the series if they're revealed.

Maybe it's just me though. I don't have any problem with spoilers, though I usually try to avoid spoiling things for other people. To me, if a story is so dependant on spoilers that it is no longer interesting once you know them, it fails to tell a compelling story. I watched Fight Club and Sixth Sense knowing what was going to happen and enjoyed them anyway, because they told their stories well. I really like rewatching movies or rereading books knowing all the spoilers to see if I can spot more clues.

I do feel though that there is a point where you no longer need to tip toe around spoilers. I couldn't put an exact time on it, it's probably more dependant on how popular and widespread a certain story is.

FujinAkari
2012-01-22, 01:13 AM
Maybe it's just me though. I don't have any problem with spoilers, though I usually try to avoid spoiling things for other people. To me, if a story is so dependant on spoilers that it is no longer interesting once you know them, it fails to tell a compelling story. I watched Fight Club and Sixth Sense knowing what was going to happen and enjoyed them anyway, because they told their stories well. I really like rewatching movies or rereading books knowing all the spoilers to see if I can spot more clues.

For me I think my annoyance comes more from the fact that I tirelessly avoided that spoiler for TWO AND A HALF YEARS, knew there was something major but left conversations and did everything I could to avoid ever seeing it. Then, literally a month before the complete set came out and I was going to watch it, someone just randomly ruins it for me and undoes all my effort because it is apparently funny to do so. :smallmad:

I really, STILL, do not understand what purpose or point that comment was meant to serve, at all. It either served to spoil a plot twist for someone who didn't know, or waste space if someone did. Why was it posted at all?

Gift Jeraff
2012-01-22, 01:30 AM
I know a 17 yr old friend who has not seen any episodes of star wars because he watched The Phantom Menace, didn't like it, heard the others were being revised to be more like and so dropped the whole affair. He may or may not know that Luke is Darth Vader's sonI'd be shocked if he didn't know. My 3 closest friends have never seen a single Star War, yet know that Vader is Luke's father. (Why I'm even friends who've never watched the OT is an issue I should really deal with it...)
I really, STILL, do not understand what purpose or point that comment was meant to serve, at all. It either served to spoil a plot twist for someone who didn't know, or waste space if someone did. Why was it posted at all?It's just an Internet meme. It's like all other memes, April Fools' jokes, pranks, etc. Some people find them funny, others find them obnoxious. I had it spoiled through ytmnd.com years ago and I found it funny.

V'icternus
2012-01-22, 11:54 AM
If a great piece of media becomes terrible if someone says a single sentence to you before you watch it...

Maybe it's not actually that good.

For example, Planet of the Apes.

For those that don't know...

It was earth all along! =O

This revelation is... of practically no importance to the plot. And if knowing this ruins the movie for you, then you probably wouldn't have enjoyed the movie anyway.

Likewise, Snape killing Dumbledore.
It's still a wrenching scene, it's not even the actual twist of the novel, and...

It's taken completely out of context by our main character, who serves as our window into the world.


Now, I have no reason to care about Harry Potter spoilers in particular. I read them far faster than those who would care to spoil them for me.
Because I was invested, and interested.
But do you think I'd have set the books down and ignored the series forever, or else begrudgingly sat through a series I was suddenly bored by, because of any spoiler the world had to offer?

Of course not!

Because even if you know that (Star Wars Spoiler)

The good guys win and have a party.

It's still worth watching, because it's not the destination that matters, or the individual moments along the way. The point is the whole journey.

Otherwise, why would some of us re-read The Lord of the Rings every year?
Know how it ends, HA! I know more about that world than any of the people living in it!
Still love it every time.