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Phosphate
2011-11-26, 11:23 AM
This is a class that uses a pretty intricate casting system. You will see that it is both more restrictive and allows more freedom at the same time, to make up a spellcaster who is both far from overpowered and remains relevant for most of the day.

The Magician
http://www.magicianhire.com.au/images/magician_hire.jpg

"Treat your public well, Jason. For your power stems from their amazement and credulity." ~ Huber, Magician

Magicians do not study the arcane. They don't even think about arcane energies as an actual thing in itself, but merely an enhancement of their sleight of hand techniques. For them, spellcasting is but an accessory, which a master doesn't even need.

Adventures: Magicians adventure to advertise and popularize their craft, learn new techniques from masters and, as any other adventurer, to get filthy rich on the expense of others.

Religion: There is no tangent between being religious or irreligious and being a magician, so magicians can be of various cults. Interestingly enough, though, not many of them pray to gods of magic.

Race: Any race with magical affinity that doesn't take magic too seriously can produce magicians.

Alignment: Any

Starting Age: Simple
Starting Gold: as sorcerer

HD: d6

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |
Spells per day|
Savvy

1st|+0|+0|+2|+0|Dexterous Hands, Casting|
6|
2

2nd|+1|+0|+3|+0|Battle of Wits|
8|
2

3rd|+1|+1|+3|+1||
10|
2

4th|+2|+1|+4|+1||
12|
2

5th|+2|+1|+4|+1|Cheap Tricks|
13|
3

6th|+3|+2|+5|+2||
15|
3

7th|+3|+2|+5|+2|Chain Spell|
17|
3

8th|+4|+2|+6|+2|Mundane Knack|
19|
3

9th|+4|+3|+6|+3||
20|
4

10th|+5|+3|+7|+3|Cantrip Expert|
22|
4

11th|+5|+3|+7|+3|Improvise|
24|
4

12th|+6/+1|+4|+8|+4|Spell Blend|
26|
4

13th|+6/+1|+4|+8|+4|Mundane Proficiency|
27|
5

14th|+7/+2|+4|+9|+4||
29|
5

15th|+7/+2|+5|+9|+5|Cantrip Master|
31|
5

16th|+8/+3|+5|+10|+5||
33|
5

17th|+8/+3|+5|+10|+5|Hocus Pocus|
34|
6

18th|+9/+4|+6|+11|+6|Spell Fusion|
36|
6

19th|+9/+4|+6|+11|+6||
38|
6

20th|+10/+5|+6|+12|+6|Mundane Sublimity|
40|
6

[/table]



Spells Known
{table]Level|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th

1st|5|2|||||

2nd|5|2|||||

3rd|6|3|1||||

4th|6|3|2||||

5th|7|4|2||||

6th|7|4|3|1|||

7th|8|5|3|2|||

8th|8|5|4|2|||

9th|9|5|4|3|1||

10th|9|5|5|3|2||

11th|9|5|5|4|2||

12th|9|5|5|4|3|1|

13th|9|5|5|4|3|2|

14th|9|5|5|4|4|2|

15th|9|5|5|4|4|3|1

16th|9|5|5|4|4|3|2

17th|9|5|5|4|4|4|2

18th|9|5|5|4|4|4|3

19th|9|5|5|4|4|4|3

20th|9|5|5|4|4|4|3

[/table]

Class Features

Skill points per Level: 4 + int (x4 at 1st level)
Class Skills: Appraise, Bluff, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Hide, Knowledge (Local), Move Silently, Open Lock, Perform, Profession, Sleight of Hand, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device

Casting: The magician is a special type of caster, different in many respects from more traditional classes.

He is a spontaneous arcane caster who casts spells from a spell known list. To learn a spell, a magician's Int must be equal to 10+spell level or higher, and his Dex must be equal to 15+spell level or higher.

A magician chooses spells from the sor/wiz spell list, with the following amendments:
- He may not choose spells that do not have a somatic component.
- He may not choose spells that have an XP component.

Spell slots: Unlike other casters, the magician doesn't have individual spell slots for every level. Instead, he may cast a certain number of spells every day, regardless of their level. This number is not modified by having any high mental stat.

Save DC: The save DC of a magician's spells is 10+spell level+dex mod. However, if an opponent has seen the magician perform a specific spell in the past 24 hours, and has a wisdom of 11 or more, he must beat a save DC of only 10+spell level.

Savvy: If a magician has performed the same spell a number of times per day equal to or greater than the number in this column, all opponents within line of sight are allowed a Will Save to disbelieve its existence when it is cast. The DC for this is 10+spell level+int mod. Unlike illusions, where if a creature saves it is the only one unaffected, if a magician spell is disbelieved it fails completely. Savvy is also applied to spells that normally don't offer a save at all.

Metamagic: A magician doesn't apply metamagic on the fly like other spontaneous spellcasters. Instead, he is treated as if he knows all metamagic feats there are (for the purpose of magician spells only). Instead of applying metamagic feats, the magician must actually learn their spells already modified, taking space in the spell known list (so for instance, a Quickened Orb of Acid is learned as a level 4 spell). Unlike other spontaneous casters, a magician can learn quickened spells, but cannot learn still spells. Spells learned this way are treated as if their effective level is equal to the level of the slot they are learned in.


Special Mechanics of Sanctum Spell

When learning a spell with Sanctum Spell applied to it, a magician chooses whether to learn it as High or Low. If learned as Low, its level is reduced by 1 but can be used only outside the sanctum. If learned as High, its level is increased by 1 but can be used only inside the sanctum.

Casting Time: If the casting time of a magician spell is not a standard action, it stays the way it is. If the casting time is a standard action, it changes depending on level:

0th - free action
1st and 2nd - swift action
3rd and 4th - standard action
5th and 6th - full round action

However, a magician can normally cast only 1 spell per round (not counting Immediate spells).

Dexterous Hands (Ex): A magician adds his class levels as a competence bonus to Sleight of Hand and Open Lock skills.

Battle of Wits (Ex): A magician can change his spells on the fly to avoid their negation. He cannot be counterspelled by spellcasters whose relevant casting stat (which is the casting stat used for DCs) is equal to or lower than his dexterity.

Cheap Tricks: A level 5 magician instantly learns all cantrips there are. This does not include spells that can reach level 0 through the use of metamagic feats, like Sanctum Spell.

Chain Spell: A level 7 magician can cast 2 spells of different casting time in the same round. He cannot do this with a level 1-2 spell and a level 3-6 spell, though, unless they are quickened.

Mundane Knack: Through unknown smart uses of mundane means, a level 8 magician's level 0, 1 and 2 spells are treated as extraordinary abilities. Thus, they always penetrate spell resistance, can't be detected, and can be used within antimagic fields. Also, spells that are treated as extraordinary abilities that require material components still need said components to be present, but do not consume them.

Cantrip Expert: A level 10 magician is so skilled with cantrips that he can use them without consuming spells per day.

Improvise (Ex): Magicians can, at times, tweak their performances so that they look a bit different from the norm, whilst still having the same magical effect. By consuming 2 spells per day, a magician can cast a spell whose DC is always 10+spell level+dex mod, regardless if the opponent has seen the magician cast that spell in the past. Also, he gains a +2 on the DC for Savvy disbeliefs.

Spell Blend (Ex): An upper intermediate magician can cast two spells simultaneously. This ability must be used with 2 spells of the same casting time (so 0-0, 1-1, 1-2, 2-2, 3-3, 3-4 etc). A spell cannot be blended with itself. The resulting blend must have the same target/target area (if an area is combined with a targeting spell the target must be in the center of the area). Blends consume only one spell slot and always have a combined casting time of a full round action, but if one of them offers a save to negate, and the targets save, the other component of the blend is negated too.

Mundane Proficiency: Same as Mundane Knack, but works for levels 3 and 4 too.

Cantrip Master: A level 15 magician is a master of cantrips. Cantrips do not count as spells anymore for him, so for instance are not subject to savvy disbelieve and are not counted by Chain Spell. Additionally, he can use 2 cantrips per round as a single free action.

Hocus Pocus: A level 17 magician doesn't need fancy schmancy specific words to cast his spells. He will ignore the verbal components of all his spells.

Spell Fusion: A level 18 magician can go beyond just blending spells, and can fuse them altogether, and in any number. Once per day, he can spend all his spells per day to cast every spell he knows once in the same round. He must have at least 12 spells per day left to use this. The magician must end his round in the position that he started it.

Mundane Sublimity: Same as Mundane Proficiency, but works for all spell levels.

nonsi
2011-11-27, 07:58 AM
It's obvious that Savvy is intended to force spell versatility (to make the day more interesting) and to prevent abuse of the more powerful spells, but, as a bystander I have a problem with its description.
It's not inconceivable that someone would disbelieve a magician's spell even without that someone being one of its intended or even unintended targets, and even without the magician even being aware of a disbeliever's very existence - and when someone's not in the AoE of a spell, the spell can't even "sense" the disbeliever.

I suggest an alternative rule that requires a scaling defensive-casting-like mechanics to determine if a spell fails.

Btw, AFAIK, "Savvy" means you're particularly good at something, not less "sucky" at it.



Also, why doesn't the Magician get 7th level spells at class level 18?

zegram 33
2011-11-27, 08:09 AM
these might be in sourcebooks or something but...what do the cantrip expert and cantrip master etc class abilities actually do?
i quite like the idea of someone using simple spells to great effects, but i dont really understand what it will do

also i agree that "savvy" doesnt quite ring true, i suggest that only targets of spells have the chance of disbelieving them

(bear in mind, this is a world where ACTUAL wizards both exist and regularly explode things with there minds, so your gonna be significantly less likely to call bullsh**t on a magician like the one in this class)

EDIT: in light of the below message just wanna say sorry for breaking up the posts on the class

Steward
2011-11-27, 08:30 AM
I think the class is still unfinished, so cantrip expert and cantrip master will probably be explained.

EDIT: There is a Cantrip Master base class (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Cantrip_Master_%283.5e_Class%29) but this entry doesn't indicate what book it's from, and I can't tell if this class feature will even be related to it yet.

Phosphate
2011-11-27, 10:23 AM
The point of savvy is not that the magician is getting progressively sucky at successful tricks, it's that the SPECTATORS are getting better and better at figuring said tricks out by following his hand gestures - which is WHY it can be disbelieved by anyone within line of sight, even if they are not affected by the spell. FURTHERMORE, the DC for the disbelieving (10+spell level+int mod) will more often than not be HARDER to beat than the dc of the actual spell, provided the opponents saw you use it before.

The class is indeed unfinished, which is why many abilities are unexplained. None of them are copy pasted directly from splatbooks, however, so just wait for me to fill them out :)).

The reason why it doesn't have level 7 spells is cause of the slotless model of the class - I mean, mass spamming Disintegrate is already sweet as is, imagine what would be of it if you could do the same with Summon Monster VII. And I do not intend to land squarely in Tier 2 with this, so everything past level 6 is beyond my necessities.

Phosphate
2011-11-27, 10:51 AM
(bear in mind, this is a world where ACTUAL wizards both exist and regularly explode things with there minds, so your gonna be significantly less likely to call bullsh**t on a magician like the one in this class)

Well, the point is that a magician is a person who DOES know he lives in a world of true magic, who HAS the ability to use true magic himself, who THRIVES to do awesome incredible tricks WITHOUT using the arcane might that he is, yes, capable of. That's pretty much the point of the mundane line.

jiriku
2011-11-27, 10:58 AM
Save DC: You may need more explanation of how the save DC lowers "if the opponent has seen the magician perform a specific spell in the past 24 hours". Suppose the magician is invisible when he casts the spell - has he bypassed this limitation? What if he learns some of his spells with the Invisible Spell metamagic feat applied, so that they cannot be "seen"?

Metamagic: It's worth a note to state how the spell level of a metamagic-modified spell is figured. For example, is a quickened mirror image considered a 6th-level spell or a 2nd-level spell? Compared to more traditional spellcasters, the magician will be a much weaker user of metamagic, since he cannot reduce the spell slot cost, but may be able to leverage obscure combos more effectively, since he doesn't need to worry about the feat cost of niche metamagic feats. Interesting.

Duration: I think you're saying "duration" when you mean to say "casting time". I don't know of even a single spell with a duration of one standard action.

Savvy: A very rocky ability since its effectiveness as a handicap is dependent on the number of opponents present. How is "opponent" defined? I assume innocent bystanders would not be counted, nor the magician himself nor his party members.

Chain Spell: Because of my aforementioned confusion over "duration" versus "casting time", I'm not sure what this is intended to do. If it's used to cast any two spells per round, so long as their durations differ, it's extremely powerful and may push your class out of its intended tier. Straight-up doubled casting like that would be a powerful feature even if granted 6-8 levels later.

Mundane Knack: Beware the magician's ability to apply mundane knack to a heavily metamagicked 2nd level spell, potentially gaining the benefit with a spell that's much more powerful than you expect.

Phosphate
2011-11-27, 11:49 AM
Save DC: You may need more explanation of how the save DC lowers "if the opponent has seen the magician perform a specific spell in the past 24 hours". Suppose the magician is invisible when he casts the spell - has he bypassed this limitation? What if he learns some of his spells with the Invisible Spell metamagic feat applied, so that they cannot be "seen"?

The spell itself may or may not be seen, but it's the actual casting casting of the spell which must be seen for the DC to be lowered. So an invisible magician bypasses this limitation, but a magician using Invisible Spell does not. And seriously, that's one of the worst metamagic feats ever :smallannoyed:.



Metamagic: It's worth a note to state how the spell level of a metamagic-modified spell is figured. For example, is a quickened mirror image considered a 6th-level spell or a 2nd-level spell? Compared to more traditional spellcasters, the magician will be a much weaker user of metamagic, since he cannot reduce the spell slot cost, but may be able to leverage obscure combos more effectively, since he doesn't need to worry about the feat cost of niche metamagic feats. Interesting.

Quickened Mirror image would be level 6, yes. And Maximized Magic Missile will be level 4. And Silent Maximized Magic Missile will be level 5. You simply add up the numbers.

And yes, it was my intent to make this a class that is weaker at using metamagic than other casters, but also has zero dependency on feats.


Duration: I think you're saying "duration" when you mean to say "casting time". I don't know of even a single spell with a duration of one standard action.

True. Will change.


Savvy: A very rocky ability since its effectiveness as a handicap is dependent on the number of opponents present. How is "opponent" defined? I assume innocent bystanders would not be counted, nor the magician himself nor his party members.

Opponent is anyone who wants to save against his ability (it is not a forced save). The magician can even count himself as an opponent and save against himself.


Chain Spell: Because of my aforementioned confusion over "duration" versus "casting time", I'm not sure what this is intended to do. If it's used to cast any two spells per round, so long as their durations differ, it's extremely powerful and may push your class out of its intended tier. Straight-up doubled casting like that would be a powerful feature even if granted 6-8 levels later.

Not really, because you don't GAIN extra actions, and that limits you. You STILL cannot use a standard action AND a full round action at the same time :)). These are the only combinations:

a level 0 and a level 1-2
a level 0 and a level 3-4
a level 0 and a level 5-6
a level 1-2 and a level 3-4
a level 0 and a level 0 that has been learned Quickened
a level 3-4 and a level 0-1-2 that has been learned Quickened
a level 0 and a level 1-2 that has been learned Quickened


Mundane Knack: Beware the magician's ability to apply mundane knack to a heavily metamagicked 2nd level spell, potentially gaining the benefit with a spell that's much more powerful than you expect.

Nope. Because that heavily metamagicked 2nd level spell is still learned in a higher spell slot, and thus not considered level 2.

jiriku
2011-11-27, 01:48 PM
Quickened Mirror image would be level 6, yes. And Maximized Magic Missile will be level 4. And Silent Maximized Magic Missile will be level 5. You simply add up the numbers.

And yes, it was my intent to make this a class that is weaker at using metamagic than other casters, but also has zero dependency on feats.

Ok, that makes sense. You should add a note then, that the spell is considered a spell of its modified level. Normally a metamagic-modified spell is NOT considered a spell of its modified level. Doing it your way is effectively providing an unadvertised Heighten effect for free whenever a spell is learned with metamagic applied. Which is entirely fine, I'd say; it's just something that's best mentioned up-front because many readers won't realize it on their own.


Effects of Metamagic Feats on a Spell: In all ways, a metamagic
spell operates at its original spell level, even though it is prepared
and cast as a higher-level spell.


Not really, because you don't GAIN extra actions, and that limits you. You STILL cannot use a standard action AND a full round action at the same time :)). These are the only combinations:

a level 0 and a level 1-2
a level 0 and a level 3-4
a level 0 and a level 5-6
a level 1-2 and a level 3-4
a level 0 and a level 0 that has been learned Quickened
a level 3-4 and a level 0-1-2 that has been learned Quickened
a level 0 and a level 1-2 that has been learned Quickened

Actually, the valid combinations are:
A spell of level 0 and a spell of level 1-6
A spell of level 1-2 and a spell of level 0 or 3-6
Any quickened spell and a spell of level 0 or 3-6

While slightly less powerful than when I was reading "duration" instead of "casting time", this is still quite good. In the minimum case, casting a 2nd level spell and a 3rd level spell in the same round at ECL 7 is quite good (better than what a Tier 1 caster can do at that level). In the maximum case, casting a 2nd level spell and a 6th level spell at ECL 15 is a little less good, but still pretty efficient. I would suggest that Chain might be more appropriate as a somewhat higher-level feature.


Nope. Because that heavily metamagicked 2nd level spell is still learned in a higher spell slot, and thus not considered level 2.

Alright. That makes sense in light of what you explained about your intentions for metamagic.


Additional Concern: You probably need to address the Sanctum Spell metamagic feat directly, as it creates a special case of a spell whose level varies depending on circumstances. This could break your spells known chart. Also, sanctum 1st-level spells are effectively cantrips, allowing the magician to a) know all of them, b) cast them as free actions, and c) eventually cast two of them per round as a single, non-spell free action.

Spell Fusion: Cast 35+ spells at once? Have you run any tests to see what that would actually do in combat?

Steward
2011-11-27, 02:07 PM
So an invisible magician bypasses this limitation, but a magician using Invisible Spell does not. And seriously, that's one of the worst metamagic feats ever .

Technically, you've never actually seen that metamagic feat, since it's... invisible.... :biggrin:

Phosphate
2011-11-27, 02:56 PM
it's just something that's best mentioned up-front because many readers won't realize it on their own.


Sure, will do.



Actually, the valid combinations are:
A spell of level 0 and a spell of level 1-6
A spell of level 1-2 and a spell of level 0 or 3-6
Any quickened spell and a spell of level 0 or 3-6

Wait, you can use a swift action and a full round action in the same round?


While slightly less powerful than when I was reading "duration" instead of "casting time", this is still quite good. In the minimum case, casting a 2nd level spell and a 3rd level spell in the same round at ECL 7 is quite good (better than what a Tier 1 caster can do at that level). In the maximum case, casting a 2nd level spell and a 6th level spell at ECL 15 is a little less good, but still pretty efficient. I would suggest that Chain might be more appropriate as a somewhat higher-level feature.

Considering that it's what they actually have above other casters, which know much more spells for one, it is indeed strong, but not broken for ECL 7.


Additional Concern: You probably need to address the Sanctum Spell metamagic feat directly, as it creates a special case of a spell whose level varies depending on circumstances. This could break your spells known chart. Also, sanctum 1st-level spells are effectively cantrips, allowing the magician to a) know all of them, b) cast them as free actions, and c) eventually cast two of them per round as a single, non-spell free action.

Sure, I have just the fix for this. Will be adding soon.


Spell Fusion: Cast 35+ spells at once? Have you run any tests to see what that would actually do in combat?[/quote]

With an average of 3 encounters per day, wasting every single one of your spells like that isn't a great idea :)). And it's not 35+ spells, it is exactly 25. I said each spell you know once, and because of Cantrip Master, it doesn't count level 0 spells.


Technically, you've never actually seen that metamagic feat, since it's... invisible.... :biggrin:

You HAVE seen the casting, the particular hand movements of the magician, and that is the important part.

jiriku
2011-11-27, 05:46 PM
Wait, you can use a swift action and a full round action in the same round?


swift action
A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. You can perform one swift action per turn without affecting your ability to perform other actions.

Yes indeed.


Considering that it's what they actually have above other casters, which know much more spells for one, it is indeed strong, but not broken for ECL 7.

Fair enough.


With an average of 3 encounters per day, wasting every single one of your spells like that isn't a great idea :)). And it's not 35+ spells, it is exactly 25. I said each spell you know once, and because of Cantrip Master, it doesn't count level 0 spells.

I stand corrected. 25 spells. I know we like capstones around these here parts, but I'm just suspecting that if you created, say, an EL20 encounter with two 18th level magicians, then nova'd 50 spells onto your unsuspecting party of four 20th level PCs, multiple PCs would die, despite the fact that an EL20 "should" be easy for a PC group of that level.

Also, I'm wondering if "isn't a great idea" really holds true, given that one of those 25 spells is probably teleport. This means that a PC who pulls this off has not only thrown the kitchen sink at his opposition, but has also removed himself (and the rest of his party too, if they're correctly positioned), from any remaining danger.

I mean, sure, it's a grand capstone and all, but when I look for comparable features within other classes, there aren't any. The only things that even come close are a set of very high-op psion builds, some TO-level infinite loop builds, and some very specialized builds that abuse the heck out of Craft Contingent Item.

Phosphate
2011-11-28, 12:21 PM
Yes indeed.

Oops :(. True, that's too strong. Will try to find something.


I stand corrected. 25 spells. I know we like capstones around these here parts, but I'm just suspecting that if you created, say, an EL20 encounter with two 18th level magicians, then nova'd 50 spells onto your unsuspecting party of four 20th level PCs, multiple PCs would die, despite the fact that an EL20 "should" be easy for a PC group of that level.

Well, if nobody died, it wouldn't really be a challenge, right?


Also, I'm wondering if "isn't a great idea" really holds true, given that one of those 25 spells is probably teleport. This means that a PC who pulls this off has not only thrown the kitchen sink at his opposition, but has also removed himself (and the rest of his party too, if they're correctly positioned), from any remaining danger.

Ok...this is kind of a big issue I have not foreseen :smallconfused:. I will probably have to mention that a magician must not change his position in the round when he does the Fusion thing.