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Alroy_Kamenwati
2011-11-27, 04:05 PM
Before you Read! This could be helpful to those who want a little bit more in the gun market: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187811

The Militiaman, a fighter in savage lands, armed with only his musket, a horn of black-powder, and 10 lead balls. He defends his homeland from all evils, or he explores the surrounding world searching for adventure. He is a gunman, using the pinnacle of the times technology to his advantage.

Abilities: The main ability necessity for the Militiaman, is his dexterity and the ability to hit what he is aimed at. Its used for his quick reload, and twitch reflexes required to be a successful gunman of his day and age. Constitution also is a very viable skill, seeing as most Militiamen replace the fighters in their higher technological society, and they need a higher survivability rate with their mere d8 hit die.

Alignment: Any

Hit Die: d8

Class Skills: Climb(Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal(Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Listen
(Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search
(Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Rope (Dex).

Skill Points per Level: 6 + int Modifier (x4 at First Level.)

Weapon and Armor Proficiency Militiamen are Proficient with all simple, Martial, and Exotic (Firearms) Weapons, and they are proficient in Light and Medium armor and Buckler Shields.

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+0|
+2|
+2| Steady Aim + 1d6, Battle Grit +1

2nd|
+2|
+0|
+3|
+3| Quick Reload/Rapid Reload

3rd|
+3|
+1|
+3|
+3|Steady Aim + 2d6, Battle Grit + 2

4th|
+4|
+1|
+4|
+4| Evasion

5th|
+5|
+2|
+5|
+5| Uncanny Dodge, Battle Grit + 3

6th|
+6/+1|
+2|
+5|
+5| Steady Aim + 3d6, Improved Evasion, March

7th|
+7/+2|
+2|
+5|
+5| Weapon Focus (Musket) or Weapon Focus (Pistol), Battle Grit + 4

8th|
+8/+3|
+2|
+6|
+6|Bonus Feat

9th|
+9/+4|
+3|
+6|
+6|Steady Aim + 4d6, Battle Grit + 5

10th|
+10/+5|
+3|
+7|
+7|Bonus Feat

11th|
+11/+6/+1|
+3|
+7|
+7| Battle Grit + 6

12th|
+12/+7/+2|
+4|
+8|
+8| Steady Aim + 5d6, Bonus Feat

13th|
+13/+8/+3|
+4|
+8|
+8| Battle Grit + 7

14th|
+14/+9/+4|
+4|
+9|
+9| Flawless Stride

15th|
+15/+10/+5|
+5|
+9|
+9| Steady Aim + 6d6, Battle Grit + 8

16th|
+16/+11/+6/+1|
+5|
+10|
+10| Bonus Feat

17th|
+17/+12/+7/+2|
+5|
+10|
+10| Battle Grit + 9, Surprise Assault

18th|
+18/+13/+8/+3|
+6|
+11|
+11|Bonus Feat

19th|
+19/+14/+9/+4|
+6|
+11|
+11| Steady Aim + 7d6, Battle Grit + 10

20th|
+20/+15/+10/+5|
+6|
+12|
+12|Ambush[/table]


Steady Aim(ex): You take a move action to move a maximum of 10 ft stand still to aim at an enemy and hit a weak spot. This gives bonus damage to all enemies with an anatomy that can be seen. Can be used in correlation with Stand Still. Works as Critical Damage. This Ability does Half Damage to anything that cannot take Critical Damage. This bonus is once per round. This only Works with Firearms and Crossbows.

Battle Grit(ex): Gives a bonus every odd level Initiative. Bonus is listed.

Quick Reload/Rapid Reload(ex): Quick Reload/ Rapid Reload allows the user to reload as a free action rather than as a move action for both the crossbow and the firearms.

March(ex): Allows the user a +5 Move Speed and allows an extra move action per Turn.

Ambush: Per Encounter: Free Attack against Any Flat Footed Foe

Surprise Assault: After a Surprise round the Player gets a +30 move speed for a turn

Evasion/Improved Evasion: A Militiaman of 4th level or higher
can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with
great agility. If she makes a successful Reflex
saving throw against an attack that normally
deals half damage on a successful save (such
as a red dragonís fiery breath or a fireball), she
instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used
only if a Militiaman is wearing light armor or no
armor. A helpless Militiaman (such as one who is
unconscious or paralyzed) does not gain the
benefit of evasion./ At 6th level, a Militiaman's evasion ability
improves. She still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving
throw against attacks such as a dragonís breath weapon or a fireball,
but henceforth she takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless
Militiaman (such as one who is unconscious or paralyzed) does not
gain the benefit of improved evasion. (From PH v 3.5: Monk explanation)

Uncanny Dodge: At 5th level, a Militiaman gains the ability
to react to danger before his senses would normally allow him to do
so. He retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if he is caught
flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, he still loses
his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.
If a Militiaman already has uncanny dodge from a different class (a
Militiaman with at least four levels of rogue, for example), he
automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead. (From PH v 3.5: Barbarian explanation)

Flawless Stride: Allows the Militiaman to move through any terrain without hindrance lets you get where you need to and get out quickly and efficiently. Itís also useful if a sudden retreat is necessary.

Bonus Feat: As Fighter

Note from the Creator: I'd love to see some constructive criticism, this is my very first homebrew class and I am still learning. I'm open minded and would love to see some criticism. On a side note I do want to mention that the Muskets/ Pistols/ Whatever else can be replaced with whatever other style of 'gun' you decide to use, its mostly to DM discretion. Thank you for looking, and thank you if you decide to help me make this a better, more stable class.

Gaiyamato
2011-11-27, 04:13 PM
Good to see someone else working on firearms classes. :smallbiggrin:

You should standardise the levels you gain bonus feats at. Also list what range of feats are eligible for bonus feats. Open ended bonus feats are extremely powerful.

What does Steady Aim do? How does it work?
Same for stand still.

They both seem to be giving bonus damage, but only with gunpowder weapons? Only with ranged weapons? With anything? Does it stack with Skirmish or sneak attack etc.?
Also having both means that no matter what you are getting bonus damage because you are always either moving or not moving. lol.
Why not simplify it down to just a bonus damage to firing a musket?

Also are you using the DMGII firearms rules? If so it is exotic weapon proficiency - firearms not Guns. If you are using someone elses homebrew firearms then you should link it. :smallsmile:

gooddragon1
2011-11-27, 04:18 PM
I'd say make it bonus damage with only ranged weapons.

Also your save progression is weird.

Alroy_Kamenwati
2011-11-27, 04:24 PM
Good to see someone else working on firearms classes. :smallbiggrin:

You should standardise the levels you gain bonus feats at. Also list what range of feats are eligible for bonus feats. Open ended bonus feats are extremely powerful.

What does Steady Aim do? How does it work?
Same for stand still.

They both seem to be giving bonus damage, but only with gunpowder weapons? Only with ranged weapons? With anything? Does it stack with Skirmish or sneak attack etc.?
Also having both means that no matter what you are getting bonus damage because you are always either moving or not moving. lol.
Why not simplify it down to just a bonus damage to firing a musket?

Also are you using the DMGII firearms rules? If so it is exotic weapon proficiency - firearms not Guns. If you are using someone elses homebrew firearms then you should link it. :smallsmile:

Okay explained Steady Aim and Stand Still, working on that feat progression. And changed it to Exotic Weapon Proficiency Guns to Firearms. Thank you very much.

Alroy_Kamenwati
2011-11-27, 04:26 PM
I'd say make it bonus damage with only ranged weapons.

Also your save progression is weird.

Changed it to Damage only with Firearms, and I will be working on that save progression soon.

Alroy_Kamenwati
2011-11-27, 04:27 PM
Okay as Suggested above I'm making a Feat Selection thing, and need suggestions. Anyone care to help?

Spiryt
2011-11-27, 04:30 PM
"Standing still" needs a lot of clarification, since anyway, you're pretty much always treated as 'standing still' when you're attacking in D&D....

There is stuff like Shot on the Run or whatever, but most of the time it's all about actions, and what exactly happens to character with, say shooting as a Standard Action was mostly described by DM/Player.

Also, Steady Aim needs to state how long does that bonus last. Next attack, only in the same round or whatever.

Alroy_Kamenwati
2011-11-27, 04:37 PM
"Standing still" needs a lot of clarification, since anyway, you're pretty much always treated as 'standing still' when you're attacking in D&D....

There is stuff like Shot on the Run or whatever, but most of the time it's all about actions, and what exactly happens to character with, say shooting as a Standard Action was mostly described by DM/Player.

Also, Steady Aim needs to state how long does that bonus last. Next attack, only in the same round or whatever.


Okay editing Stand Still, and edited Steady Aim to show how long it lasts.

Alroy_Kamenwati
2011-11-27, 04:39 PM
Clarified what you have to do to activate Stand Still, and added a time frame for Steady Aim. Keep 'em coming folks.

jiriku
2011-11-27, 05:28 PM
This is a pretty straightforward class, so there's not much to say about the features. My biggest concern would be that maybe you have set out to accomplish too little, and successfully met your goal. Overall, this is probably a mid-tier 5 class if fitted into the tier system of classes, which is generally less powerful and versatile than is usually desired.

High Points:
The basic chassis (HD, skills, base attack, and saves) just feels right. I think you landed it exactly where it needs to be.
In particular, kudos to you for breaking out of the "2 skill points per level" limit that WoTC imposed on most of their own classes - even a basic martial character needs at least 4 points per level to be sufficiently well-rounded.
Likewise, it's good to see a class with a nice, broad selection of class skills to choose from.

Opportunities For Improvement:
The militiaman lags well behind other classes in Armor Class. I'd recommend granting proficiency with light armor, medium armor, and bucklers, or granting a class-based bonus to AC (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/defenseBonus.htm).
You need to create synergy among the class features. As it stands presently, Steady Aim and Stand Still can't both be used in the same round. Official Training isn't compatible with Weapon Focus, Steady Aim, or Stand Still.
Some of your class features need to be defined. For example, you grant Quick Reload - does that work like the Rapid Reload feat, or what? You grant Extra Feat repeatedly. Which feats can be selected, and under what conditions? These questions need answering.
All features descriptions need to be tagged as extraordinary, spell-like, or supernatural. Your abilities all all look extraordinary to me.
High-level features should be better/more powerful than low-level features. Granting delayed access to a weak low-level feature, instead of an appropriately powered higher-level feature, will water down and weaken your class. Here are some examples of this "power decay":


{table=head]You Grant|At Level|Instead of|Delayed By
Endurance|3rd|1st|2 levels
Martial Weapon Proficiency|4th|1st|3 levels
Weapon Focus|7th|1st|6 levels
Evasion|13th|2nd|11 levels
Improved Evasion|15th|10th|5 levels[/table]
A good class should gain some sort of new, useful capability at every level of advancement, whether that be a class feature, a bonus feat, or additional spells known or spells per day. Any level where a class offers nothing more than some small numeric improvements to your existing stats is considered a "dead" level - undesirable. Dead levels are a large part of the design problems in weaker classes like fighter, barbarian, rogue, scout, and swashbuckler. You have two kinds of dead levels in your class. At 11th and 14th, you have "visible" dead levels, where there's nothing going on other than an incremental numeric improvement. You also have "hidden" dead levels at 6th-9th, 12th, 16th, and 19th; the table shows a feature at these levels, but there's actually nothing new, only another incremental numeric improvement.
Because Steady Aim and Stand Still limit the militiaman to one shot per round, the character gains very little benefit from the extra iterative attacks granted by a high base attack bonus. For this reason, the militiaman's damage potential scales extremely poorly at high levels compared to other martial classes.

Suggestions:
Add descriptions for the unexplained class features.
Grant those delayed features sooner, so that they'll be useful and exciting when they're gained.
Modify Steady Aim and Stand Still so that they can be used together.
Tag the features as (ex) - extraordinary abilities.
Add some more gun-related features to fill in all those dead levels. I'd suggest you grant the class a limited maneuver progression, and access to the Black Rain martial discipline (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99529). Any level at which you gain an additional readied maneuver, known maneuver, or known stance would count as a level with a new, useful feature.
Martial maneuvers will do much to fix the damage-scaling issue, but you might also consider granting the ability to make a full attack as a standard action at some point.

The Witch-King
2011-11-27, 05:32 PM
I'd change the "firearms only" abilities to include crossbows. It would make the class of use to a wider range of players/DMs.

I'd fill in the gaps in the level progression so that there were no "empty levels." These days people--i.e. players--really seem to object to those.

Finally, I'd add in an ability or abilities that allow the class to make better use of cover and/or concealment than other combatants but at the expense of not being able to use the "aiming" abilities.

Good class. I like it a lot. I'm looking forward to your final version.

Loki_42
2011-11-27, 06:07 PM
Hey man, great to see you on the Playground. Your chassis looks decent, except for areas others have already pointed out. I agree with the people who are saying Stand Still and Steady Aim are kind of unnecessary together, and it might just be best to wrap the two into some kind of extra damage feature. It could also work well with a maneuver or spell progression. And it could definitely use some armor, I can see as high as medium working well, and it would fill in a ranged combat niche you don't see much of.

Alroy_Kamenwati
2011-11-27, 06:22 PM
This is a pretty straightforward class, so there's not much to say about the features. My biggest concern would be that maybe you have set out to accomplish too little, and successfully met your goal. Overall, this is probably a mid-tier 5 class if fitted into the tier system of classes, which is generally less powerful and versatile than is usually desired.

High Points:
The basic chassis (HD, skills, base attack, and saves) just feels right. I think you landed it exactly where it needs to be.
In particular, kudos to you for breaking out of the "2 skill points per level" limit that WoTC imposed on most of their own classes - even a basic martial character needs at least 4 points per level to be sufficiently well-rounded.
Likewise, it's good to see a class with a nice, broad selection of class skills to choose from.

Opportunities For Improvement:
The militiaman lags well behind other classes in Armor Class. I'd recommend granting proficiency with light armor, medium armor, and bucklers, or granting a class-based bonus to AC (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/defenseBonus.htm).
You need to create synergy among the class features. As it stands presently, Steady Aim and Stand Still can't both be used in the same round. Official Training isn't compatible with Weapon Focus, Steady Aim, or Stand Still.
Some of your class features need to be defined. For example, you grant Quick Reload - does that work like the Rapid Reload feat, or what? You grant Extra Feat repeatedly. Which feats can be selected, and under what conditions? These questions need answering.
All features descriptions need to be tagged as extraordinary, spell-like, or supernatural. Your abilities all all look extraordinary to me.
High-level features should be better/more powerful than low-level features. Granting delayed access to a weak low-level feature, instead of an appropriately powered higher-level feature, will water down and weaken your class. Here are some examples of this "power decay":


{table=head]You Grant|At Level|Instead of|Delayed By
Endurance|3rd|1st|2 levels
Martial Weapon Proficiency|4th|1st|3 levels
Weapon Focus|7th|1st|6 levels
Evasion|13th|2nd|11 levels
Improved Evasion|15th|10th|5 levels[/table]
A good class should gain some sort of new, useful capability at every level of advancement, whether that be a class feature, a bonus feat, or additional spells known or spells per day. Any level where a class offers nothing more than some small numeric improvements to your existing stats is considered a "dead" level - undesirable. Dead levels are a large part of the design problems in weaker classes like fighter, barbarian, rogue, scout, and swashbuckler. You have two kinds of dead levels in your class. At 11th and 14th, you have "visible" dead levels, where there's nothing going on other than an incremental numeric improvement. You also have "hidden" dead levels at 6th-9th, 12th, 16th, and 19th; the table shows a feature at these levels, but there's actually nothing new, only another incremental numeric improvement.
Because Steady Aim and Stand Still limit the militiaman to one shot per round, the character gains very little benefit from the extra iterative attacks granted by a high base attack bonus. For this reason, the militiaman's damage potential scales extremely poorly at high levels compared to other martial classes.

Suggestions:
Add descriptions for the unexplained class features.
Grant those delayed features sooner, so that they'll be useful and exciting when they're gained.
Modify Steady Aim and Stand Still so that they can be used together.
Tag the features as (ex) - extraordinary abilities.
Add some more gun-related features to fill in all those dead levels. I'd suggest you grant the class a limited maneuver progression, and access to the Black Rain martial discipline (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99529). Any level at which you gain an additional readied maneuver, known maneuver, or known stance would count as a level with a new, useful feature.
Martial maneuvers will do much to fix the damage-scaling issue, but you might also consider granting the ability to make a full attack as a standard action at some point.


Perhaps the best suggestion post yet, thank you very much. I added much of what you suggested. Currently I'm working on implementing the other things, I'd love it if you'd keep updated and help me even more with this class.

Alroy_Kamenwati
2011-11-27, 06:24 PM
I'd change the "firearms only" abilities to include crossbows. It would make the class of use to a wider range of players/DMs.

I'd fill in the gaps in the level progression so that there were no "empty levels." These days people--i.e. players--really seem to object to those.

Finally, I'd add in an ability or abilities that allow the class to make better use of cover and/or concealment than other combatants but at the expense of not being able to use the "aiming" abilities.

Good class. I like it a lot. I'm looking forward to your final version.

Thank you very much, I added in the crossbows, and I got rid of the Visible empty levels and currently working on the not so visible empty levels.

Alroy_Kamenwati
2011-11-27, 06:25 PM
Hey man, great to see you on the Playground. Your chassis looks decent, except for areas others have already pointed out. I agree with the people who are saying Stand Still and Steady Aim are kind of unnecessary together, and it might just be best to wrap the two into some kind of extra damage feature. It could also work well with a maneuver or spell progression. And it could definitely use some armor, I can see as high as medium working well, and it would fill in a ranged combat niche you don't see much of.

Thanks James, However I really think that the abilities should be seperate but I added in the feature to allow them together. Thanks for checking this out for me, hopefully it'll be finished soon. Though as it stands I can't even say that its out of its Alpha stage yet.

jiriku
2011-11-28, 12:48 AM
Suggestion for a possible alternative presentation of the class table and bonus feats:

I have pulled the bonus feats out into a separate column to make the table easier to read, and regularized their placement so that they're gained every other level. This will make it easier for you to decide where you want to slot in your other class features.

Additionally, rather than granting specific feats at specific levels, I put them all in a pool along with a few others not listed that are extensions of feat chains you've already started. This allows a militiaman's player to choose his own path of development, and will make militiamen more diverse as a group.

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Features|Feats

1st|
+1|
+2|
+0|
+0| Steady Aim + 1d6, Battle Fortitude +1|Bonus feat

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+0|
+0| Quick Reload/Rapid Reload|

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+1|
+1|Steady Aim + 2d6, Battle Fortitude + 2|Bonus feat

4th|
+4|
+4|
+1|
+1| Stand Still +1, Evasion|

5th|
+5|
+4|
+1|
+1| Uncanny Dodge, Battle Fortitude + 3|Bonus feat

6th|
+6/+1|
+5|
+2|
+2| Steady Aim + 3d6, Improved Evasion|

7th|
+7/+2|
+5|
+2|
+2|Battle Fortitude + 4|Bonus feat

8th|
+8/+3|
+6|
+2|
+2|Stand Still + 2|

9th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+3|
+3|Steady Aim + 4d6, Battle Fortitude + 5|Bonus feat

10th|
+10/+5|
+7|
+3|
+3||

11th|
+11/+6/+1|
+7|
+3|
+3|Battle Fortitude + 6|Bonus feat

12th|
+12/+7/+2|
+8|
+4|
+4|Stand Still + 3, Steady Aim + 5d6|

13th|
+13/+8/+3|
+8|
+4|
+4| Battle Fortitude + 7|Bonus feat

14th|
+14/+9/+4|
+9|
+4|
+4| Flawless Stride

15th|
+15/+10/+5|
+9|
+5|
+5| Steady Aim + 6d6, Battle Fortitude + 8|Bonus feat

16th|
+16/+11/+6/+1|
+10|
+5|
+5| Stand Still + 4|

17th|
+17/+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+5|
+5| Battle Fortitude + 9|Bonus feat

18th|
+18/+13/+8/+3|
+11|
+6|
+6||

19th|
+19/+14/+9/+4|
+11|
+6|
+6| Steady Aim + 7d6, Battle Fortitude + 10|Bonus feat

20th|
+20/+15/+10/+5|
+12|
+6|
+6|Stand Still + 5|[/table]

Bonus Feat: At 1st level, and again at every odd level thereafter, the militiaman gains a bonus feat, to be selected from the following list: Dodge (Mobility), Endurance (Steadfast Determination), Point Blank Shot (Far Shot, Improved Precise Shot, Improved Rapid Shot, Manyshot*, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Shot on the Run), Track, Weapon Focus (any crossbow or firearm).

*You may use Manyshot with any sort of ranged weapon, and may combine Manyshot with a Shot on the Run.

Demidos
2011-11-28, 01:54 AM
Why so much fort? O.o That is a HUGE bonus to saves....as they already have good saves, theyre pretty much autosucceeding, or everyone else dies horribly.

Initiative is likewise huge, especially for a class that no doubt has good dex (for ranged weapons). Without optomization, you have a base...(assume 20 dex and improved intitiative) 19 initiative....true, its high level, but still...

Maybe half the battle fortitude bonuses?

Perhaps make Stand still lose one attack (due to needing to concentrate), and then applies to all the other attacks? So +25/20/15 (though you'll probably have haste up somehow :smallbiggrin:)
Or perhaps it grants one auto-crit?
As is, a +5 to a single attack isnt incredible unless it grants some sort of status effect or something, IMHO

Also, perhaps a capstone could be added? plz :smallsmile:?

ExtravagantEvil
2011-11-28, 10:15 PM
Just a thought that I had to help you out, I have to agree, that the Battle Fortitude thing is a tad insane on the Power Level, and if you keep it, tone it down a good deal.
But Something I did just think of would be to give the class a trick shot ability at the mid to higher levels.
Essentially, just a set of abilities to choose from that let you do cool stuff such as bouncing bullets around corners and off multiple foes, warping bullet spreads, and so on.

Loki_42
2011-11-29, 07:28 PM
Yeah, why do you have so much fort? It seems... off. Maybe instead of giving it the extremely massive bonuses to fort, you could diversify and give it a second good save, maybe will, which you could add mettle to. Then it would have decent saves all around, with class bonuses to fort and will, and it's natural dex for ref.

Alroy_Kamenwati
2012-04-27, 09:59 PM
Okay people I have come back after a long absence and my class has been edited. It is now in Beta Form! Its kinda playable but I need YOU (Yes you reader) To PEACH it! Please give helpful hints, tips, and criticism, but I ask you to avoid being hurtful to me or anyone else who decides to post. Thanks to you my oh so wonderful reader for at least giving this a look over.

Loki_42
2012-04-28, 09:24 AM
Okay, from my look over today, what you need to do now is add in the capstone, remove the Weapon Focus, and I'd try to clean up some of the language a little, like March should be a swift action.

Frog Dragon
2012-04-28, 03:29 PM
*Takes out peach basket*

The capstone would seem to be "Ambush", it just was displaced from the table.

I echo much of what has been said before. For example, this class is kind of underpowered.

Steady aim is cool at lower levels, but at that point you don't need it. Then, iteratives kick in, and your steady aim will not save you from the increased monster hit points.

My suggestion is to increase the damage. Steady aim could well do with a standard sneak-attack style progression. He could also gain access to maneuvers. The Black Rain discipline was already suggested. If you don't want to go the ToB route, you could still give the Militiaman the ability to inflict conditions. Also, Steady Aim references Stand Still, which doesn't seem to exist anymore.

Interestingly, this might be most useful as a six-level "dip" (if that can be called a dip anymore). March solves the usual problem for melee-ers, in that if they move, they can't full attack. It also comes with a bunch of other goodies. However, for the gun-wielder, if you're using your class-features, march gives you much less. You won't be on the front-lines anyway, and you have range. Often, you don't even really have to move. Steady Aim means you won't be making full attacks anyway. A high level militiaman will often find himself ignoring his Steady Aim class feature though. Four attacks means 8d12 damage (avg 52). Steady aim at level 20 with the same gun works out to 2d12+7d6 (avg 37) Even if one attack misses, you're still at average 39 on the full attack, making it a superior option in the vast majority of circumstances.

Also, the capstone, ambush, is not that good. You can't combine it with Steady Aim, and you don't have easy access to any other sources of extra damage. So.. extra 13 damage against a single, limited target, with a limit of once per encounter. At level 20?

Also, Surprise assault is kind of unclear. Do you gain the move speed for the surprise round? The round after it? Both? Does it take an action. It's also inferior to March from 11 levels ago.

*puts away basket of peaches*

Loki_42
2012-04-28, 04:03 PM
For the record, me and Extravagent Evil know the creator of the class, and spent until almost midnight last night helping him fix some of the more egregious errors of it. I believe there was some errors in communication, because I'm the one who suggested Ambush. I meant for it to be a free attack against every flat-footed foe, which, with surprise assault, probably decent Hide/Move Silently, and your high initiative, could be three attacks against almost everyone. Is that still not powerful enough? Would it be fixed if you could apply Steady Aims bonus damage? Also, to Frog Dragon: I somewhat agree with your assessment that Black Rain could be a good bonus, but by that point I worried that it might be too powerful with anything but an extremely limited progression. Also, where are you getting the much lower damage from, March would allow the Militiaman the ability to move and Full Attack, which would mean that every round would be getting the 8d12+7d6, which is better than either of the numbers you put.

radmelon
2012-04-28, 06:18 PM
Quite a cool class. I like firearms in magic settings, and am a fan of deadlands, so I'm glad to see another shot at this idea (pun intended).

The first thing that sticks out at me is that the march ability is extremely good, an additional move action is a wonderous thing, but other than that, it seems fairly decent. You might want to clean up the formatting a bit, though.

Alroy_Kamenwati
2012-04-28, 11:27 PM
Woo man Frog_Dragon you have given me quite the list to think about. I had to note down everything you said so I can continue working on this class. So thank you for your contribution.
Loki_42: Thank you for clearing up some of the problems, however I do not believe a debate needs to be held, he merely gave some advice some of which was needed and helpful while others aren't.
Radmelon thank you for giving me a much needed boost to get back to editing this bad boy. After being slightly overwhelmed by Frog_Dragon's post yours brought me back to life. Its people like you who show kindness and support that keep homebrewers going!

Alroy_Kamenwati
2012-04-28, 11:28 PM
Woo man Frog_Dragon you have given me quite the list to think about. I had to note down everything you said so I can continue working on this class. So thank you for your contribution.
Loki_42: Thank you for clearing up some of the problems, however I do not believe a debate needs to be held, he merely gave some advice some of which was needed and helpful while others aren't.
Radmelon thank you for giving me a much needed boost to get back to editing this bad boy. After being slightly overwhelmed by Frog_Dragon's post yours brought me back to life. Its people like you who show kindness and support that keep homebrewers going!

Frog Dragon
2012-04-29, 09:21 AM
For the record, me and Extravagent Evil know the creator of the class, and spent until almost midnight last night helping him fix some of the more egregious errors of it. I believe there was some errors in communication, because I'm the one who suggested Ambush. I meant for it to be a free attack against every flat-footed foe, which, with surprise assault, probably decent Hide/Move Silently, and your high initiative, could be three attacks against almost everyone. Is that still not powerful enough? Would it be fixed if you could apply Steady Aims bonus damage? Also, to Frog Dragon: I somewhat agree with your assessment that Black Rain could be a good bonus, but by that point I worried that it might be too powerful with anything but an extremely limited progression. Also, where are you getting the much lower damage from, March would allow the Militiaman the ability to move and Full Attack, which would mean that every round would be getting the 8d12+7d6, which is better than either of the numbers you put.
Hmm, I appear to have misread Steady Aim. Average 78 is much more respectable, but still probably not enough for a full round. As for Ambush/Surprise assault, I don't see how Surprise assault helps there, seeing as it's just a movement power.

If Ambush works against every flat footed opponent within range, it gets somewhat better, though it still fails to perform very well in most level appropriate encounters (as they don't contain that many enemies). Now I keep picturing a militiaman surrounded by a 100 angry peasants suddenly pulling out his gun and shooting them all in three seconds flat.

Loki_42
2012-04-29, 09:53 AM
Ah, I see, Surprise Assault isn't supposed to work like how he says it does. I was supposed to grant a free Surprise Round in addition to any other surprise rounds the Militiaman would otherwise get. The extra 30' move speed was a bonus he got during the round, as an additional rider effect. Now do you see how it would help?

Edit: Although, for all of it to work like how I evisioned it, Ambush shouldn't be per encounter. I pictured in favorable circumstances the Militaman getting the drop on enemies and attacking them three times while they're all flat-footed.

Alroy_Kamenwati
2013-03-22, 12:57 AM
Man it has been so long, but I'm returning to Giants and of course returning to this class. It sucks that I haven't been able to improve on this class in a year, but I think that I will have enough time to return to it. I hope that some fresh new faces will come take a look at this class as well as some old ones! Anyway please PEACH this, but be polite to the others who decide to post here, I'd rather no debates, name-calling, or any such things should happen here.

It has been mentioned before that this is only good for a 6 level dip (if you can call it that), maybe this isn't the case but for one person but I'd like there to be a specific focus on levels 7-20, to maybe help with the development of this class at later levels. Could it be the lack of magic at later levels, Rogues get Use Magic Device, Fighters have their feats, Barbarians have their Rage, and Rangers have magic starting around that level. Maybe its the fact that the class is more mundane, rather than magical, which weakens it at later levels?