Any buff playgrounders out there?

[danzibr]

So my wife and I saw Immortals the other day, and the main dude is really buff. I work out a lot and I'm thin and have good tone (I'm 6' and 158ish pounds), but I'm just not buff.

If you're buff, how did you get there? I mean like... what kind of food did you eat while gaining muscle, what kind of workout routine, etc. Thanks.

[Liffguard]

So my wife and I saw Immortals the other day, and the main dude is really buff. I work out a lot and I'm thin and have good tone (I'm 6' and 158ish pounds), but I'm just not buff.

If you're buff, how did you get there? I mean like... what kind of food did you eat while gaining muscle, what kind of workout routine, etc. Thanks.

Lift heavy weights, eat lots of protein. There you go.

More detail? Heavy compound lifts (e.g. squats, deadlifts, barbell rows, bench press etc.). Six meals a day with a total daily protein consumption of at least 2g of protein per kg of bodyweight. Here's a good site (http://www.stronglifts.com) for packing on muscle.

[Haruki-kun]

Pretty much that^. Heavy weights, lots of protein, sleep, consistency and patience.

Anyway... It depends on what you mean by "buff". I wouldn't describe myself as "buff", because when I do people imagine a full-fledged bodybuilder or fitness model, and I'm nowhere near that. But a friend said I was "kinda buff" so let's go with that.

EDIT: Sadly, I'm not very lean....

[valadil]

Is it possible to be buff and fat? I'm still overweight (as I mentioned in the overweight thread). But I'm down 75 lbs from where I once was, mostly by way of lifting, so I think I'm decently strong by now.

[Weezer]

Is it possible to be buff and fat? I'm still overweight (as I mentioned in the overweight thread). But I'm down 75 lbs from where I once was, mostly by way of lifting, so I think I'm decently strong by now.

Actually a lot of the real strongmen out there (as opposed to showy bodybuilders) look relatively fat. For example the winner of the worlds strongest man competition in 2009, Zydrunas Savickas (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Zydrunas_Savickas_lifting_weight.jpg), is not exactly the leanest man out there.

[Haruki-kun]

Is it possible to be buff and fat? I'm still overweight (as I mentioned in the overweight thread). But I'm down 75 lbs from where I once was, mostly by way of lifting, so I think I'm decently strong by now.

Very much so. The amount of muscle someone has is for the most unrelated to the amount of fat. That aside, muscle size and strength are also not fully proportional to each other.

[paddyfool]

The question is more "Does buff just mean 'muscular', or does it mean 'muscular and not fat'?"

I tend to understand it as meaning primarily 'muscular', but also 'not (much) fat'. The quintessential example might be a heavyweight boxer's build, or one of those guys from 300.

[Weezer]

The question is more "Does buff just mean 'muscular', or does it mean 'muscular and not fat'?"

I tend to understand it as meaning primarily 'muscular', but also 'not (much) fat'. The quintessential example might be a heavyweight boxer's build, or one of those guys from 300.

Hmm, good point, misread the question. I think that buff is more an appearance thing, so someone who appears strong and muscular would be more buff than someone else who doesn't appear as muscular (even if they may be stronger in truth).

[Spiryt]

Is it possible to be buff and fat? I'm still overweight (as I mentioned in the overweight thread). But I'm down 75 lbs from where I once was, mostly by way of lifting, so I think I'm decently strong by now.

It's actually most common case, a lot of people who are naturally heavily muscled also tend to be plump.

And if you're talking Henry Cavill from the movie, he doesn't look really all that buff... More like very low on fat, judging from some pics. Like in 5% regions.

[danzibr]

Thanks for the responses all! When I said buff I had something like this in mind:
http://www.filmofilia.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Immortals-Henry-Cavill-as-Theseus.jpg
I think I don't eat enough protein. Can you still gain muscle without eating a lot of protein? I definitely eat some, but I don't have any like protein powders or anything. Anyways, off to read that stronglifts.com.

[Dr.Epic]

So my wife and I saw Immortals the other day, and the main dude is really buff. I work out a lot and I'm thin and have good tone (I'm 6' and 158ish pounds), but I'm just not buff.

If you're buff, how did you get there? I mean like... what kind of food did you eat while gaining muscle, what kind of workout routine, etc. Thanks.

It's their job. A lot of these people turn being fit into their work so it'll be difficult for just anyone to reach their level. A lot of actors condition themselves to look a certain way for a role, and the same is true of models. That, and makeup helps. I think a good amount of the guys from 300 had spray-on abs.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Buffness is over-rated.
One of my best friends managed to lose, like, 50 pounds over the summer. He can now bench 150 regularily, and can even do 200 for maybe one or two presses.

[Spiryt]

I think I don't eat enough protein. Can you still gain muscle without eating a lot of protein? I definitely eat some, but I don't have any like protein powders or anything. Anyways, off to read that stronglifts.com.

This picture indeed isn't very "buff" in traditional sense, since his muscle and frame doesn't look all that heavy.

His just very low on fat (with graphics help as well probably:smalltongue:).

As far as getting that low on fat goes, getting very low (up to grand 0-ish) on carbs is standard procedure.

If you want to gain muscle instead, you shouldn't bother.

You can just type "mass diet" in some proper boards, or whatever, and will have a lot of links and discussions.

[The Anarresti]

EDIT: Not to brag, but I look quite a bit like that guy in that "buff" picture. This comes much more from my regular exercise (being on a demanding swim team) than from anything I eat. As a rule of thumb, cut fat by diet but build muscle by working out. No matter how much protein you eat, it can only rebuild muscle insofar as you have exercised said muscle.

To answer your direct question, yes you can get buff without protein powders. Those certainly help, but only consume them up to 20 minutes immediately after working out, and only if you worked out for at least an hour with a significant anaerobic component. The idea behind protein shakes is to get quick, easily digestible protein to your muscles ASAP. IF you exert yourself, all the glycogen in your muscles will be depleted and your body will want to rebuild those reserves as soon as it can. Deprived of good food, this will mean that the molecules that could be going to rebuild (and build bigger) your muscles are instead going to replenish your glycogen stores.

I would advise a workout regime consisting of the following:

Work out at least three times a week for at least an hour at a time.
Preferably, work out 3 times a week in the gym for an hour (lifting, etc.), three times a week aerobic (running, biking etc.), and rest for one full day a week.
Rest is very important. This is when your body rebuilds itself, and studies show that sleep prevents one from becoming overweight. Because you are married, I assume you are over 25, so I would say you should be getting 7.5 hours of good sleep a night at the bare minimun. To sleep well, avoid screens and artificial lights late in the day. Also, don't stress to much about when you sleep, or if you sleep 8 hours all at once or broken up, sleep cycles vary widely from person to person.
If you work out for an hour or more, eat a full meal of real, healthy food after you are finished, to replenish your glycogen stores and rebuild your muscle.
When you do work out, balance yourself between power (weights and sprints), endurance (jogging, distance, fat-burning) and flexibility. Make sure to stretch regularly, this will prevent injury and maintain a high level of operation into your old age. Endurance training will increase your lifespan as well as giving you more energy, while power will increase what you can do as well as make you look good.
Important! Push yourself! Find your comfort zone, then add 10%. This applies to flexibility, to push for that extra half inch; for power, to add extra weight; and endurance, to run just a bit faster and harder. This is how you actually improve. Remember, your body is actually more capable than you give it credit.
Foods to eat: [Starches] Potatoes (sweet and normal), whole grain pasta or bread [Sugars and Vitamins] fruits (but not juice), vegetables. Both of various bright colors, nature's way of attracting you to good sources of food. Protien: moderate amounts of unprocessed & not fried meat or fish, nuts, eggs. [Most importantly] water, lots of it. Seriously. If you're peeing clear, you are doing the right thing. Trust me, you will have far less headaches.
Foods to avoid: Soda: there can be massive amounts of calories in sodas that your brain doesn't register because liquids do not fulfill hunger pains. Juice: just like soda. It may seem healthy, but it does not have the fiber that whole fruits have, therefor all that sugar goes straight to your bloodstream all at once instead of being released slowly over time. Anything Individually Packaged: we did not evolve to eat artificial foods. Cereal: yes, cereal, even most granola, has massive amounts of sugar in it, not all worth the meager amounts of fiber.
Rule of Thumb: think about how we evolved. Humans are a hunter-gather species, so eat a variety of foods that are natural in origin, that would have been recognized as food in 1800. We have a body form that sacrifices strength and speed for flexibility of purpose; vary your workouts. Repetitive motion injuries are common among humans. However, our ancient ancestors would have spent most of the day hunting or gathering, that is, on their feet moving about, not sitting still. Most importantly, listen to your body. Soreness is good, pain is bad. Usually soreness in in the muscles, pain in the joints. If it hurts, don't do it, but if the only reason to stop is because you feel lazy, don't stop.


My original post, which was before I fully read this thread:

You can see pretty much every individual muscle on my body, but I'm not very big, although I have a little bit of bulk. It's all due to swimming.
I am a bit of a health nut, and from my own research and experience, lifting for size isn't really the best thing to do. A lot of that is genetics, some people (like me) are naturally skinny: if they are in shape they are toned and if out of shape they are scrawny. Likewise, there are some people who are naturally bulky: either buff or fat.
Also, if you're lifting for actual strength and speed, that's quite different from lifting for show. I could help you out with the former, but not the latter. Be aware, that having rippling muscles that show all the time is not healthy, that's a sign of too-tense muscles, which makes you really prone to injury. Better to be vaguely muscular when you are relaxed, but have the muscles pop out when you flex: this shows flexible, relaxed yet powerful muscles.

[Haruki-kun]

Thanks for the responses all! When I said buff I had something like this in mind:
http://www.filmofilia.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Immortals-Henry-Cavill-as-Theseus.jpg

....I don't look like that guy, sorry. :smalltongue: I'm likely bigger than him, but I don't have that definition.


I think I don't eat enough protein. Can you still gain muscle without eating a lot of protein? I definitely eat some, but I don't have any like protein powders or anything. Anyways, off to read that stronglifts.com.

Short answer: No.

Long answer: Maybe. Your body's predisposition to build muscle will affect how much you ultimately build. Some people can build more with less exercise and a less strict diet, while others need to follow strict plans to build any muscle.

That being said, you do need protein, it's what fuels your muscles to repair themselves and grow. Does this mean you need protein powders? No, you don't. Protein powders (assuming they haven't been spiked with anything, like illegal performance-enhancing drugs) are really just that: protein. high quality, easily digested, easily absorbed protein, but protein nonetheless. If you can meet your daily protein requirements without a protein shake, you're fine. Is it easy to do so? No. Protein powders make meeting the requirement a lot easier.

[Liffguard]

Can you still gain muscle without eating a lot of protein?

No, you cannot. That said, there's absolutely no requirement for that protein to come from whey powder. Meat, fish, eggs, dairy and nuts are gonna be your best sources of protein.

[RabbitHoleLost]

Buffness is over-rated.
One of my best friends managed to lose, like, 50 pounds over the summer. He can now bench 150 regularily, and can even do 200 for maybe one or two presses.

Sometimes, but...
Man, is Mr Mudd around the playground anymore? Because that boy is buff, nerdy, a football player, and gorgeous. :smallredface:
Lemme tell you, he'd be someone to ask.

[Warlawk]

Thanks for the responses all! When I said buff I had something like this in mind:
http://www.filmofilia.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Immortals-Henry-Cavill-as-Theseus.jpg
I think I don't eat enough protein. Can you still gain muscle without eating a lot of protein? I definitely eat some, but I don't have any like protein powders or anything. Anyways, off to read that stronglifts.com.

Ok, I wouldn't really call Theseus buff personally. I think the main thing that would give that impression is the 6 pack abs. Almost everyone has 6 pack abs, they're just layered over with body fat. If you want visible 6 pack abs you just need to be in decent shape and have really, really crazy low body fat. Low body fat is the key to looking like that, like so low that many people cannot achieve that without diets so strict as to be miserable, so just keep that in mind.

As to building mass in general, there is some good responses in the thread already, and yes protein is very, very important. Personally I like to grab some chocolate flavored whey protein and toss it in the blender with 2 ice cubes and a glass of chocolate milk for my post workout drink. Chocolate milk is actually an excellent recovery drink for post workout. It has something to do with having the right balance protein (calcium is a plus) along with the sugar which stimulates the gluten receptors in your cells which allows your muscles to more quickly absorb the carbs in the milk for better recovery. I'm typing all this from memory of something I read months ago and I'm just a very very casual home lifter so I might not be dead on with some of this. Chocolate milk however has been a great recovery drink, better than water, and there are some studies out there about it that can be easily googled.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Sometimes, but...
Man, is Mr Mudd around the playground anymore? Because that boy is buff, nerdy, a football player, and gorgeous. :smallredface:
Lemme tell you, he'd be someone to ask.

Ah, for picking up girls, that's different.
I have amazing definition, I just have no muscles to show off. Almost no muscle, and less than no fat... I used to be basically a skeleton when I was younger. Now I'm just reallyreallyreally thin.

[RabbitHoleLost]

Ah, for picking up girls, that's different.
I have amazing definition, I just have no muscles to show off. Almost no muscle, and less than no fat... I used to be basically a skeleton when I was younger. Now I'm just reallyreallyreally thin.

That's attractive, too. Lean muscles are also very attractive. And thinness. So long as it isn't veryveryvery thin.

[valadil]

The question is more "Does buff just mean 'muscular', or does it mean 'muscular and not fat'?"


Correct. I think I've heard buff used to mean 'has visible muscles' and 'has strength' but I wasn't sure if there was a definitive meaning.

[Haruki-kun]

Buff:


10.
Slang . physically attractive; muscular.

— adj
7. informal ( US ) in a condition of high physical fitness and body tone, maintained by regular exercise

Source. (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/buff)

[Keld Denar]

No, you cannot. That said, there's absolutely no requirement for that protein to come from whey powder. Meat, fish, eggs, dairy and nuts are gonna be your best sources of protein.

Some of the high end suppliments actually have faster uptakes than natural sources, like 100% predigested whey products. They are often also heavily fortified in vital ameno acids that are hard to get all in one package and can heavily affect uptake rates. Not saying that natural sources are bad, just that science is a bit ahead of the power curve on this if you want to get technical on "best sources".

[danzibr]

Oooh, well, thanks all. Sounds like I'm on the right track. I work out at least twice a week, often three, for over an hour. I just need to eat a bit more protein (I eat protein right now, just maybe not enough to get good gain) and push myself.

Also, The Anarresti, I really appreciated your detailed post. I just wanted to comment that I was married at 21. And things are going well.

Lastly, for the water thing, when you meant having less headaches was that literal? Thanks again.

[The Anarresti]

You're welcome! Yes, I meant you will literally have less headaches. By far most headaches of average people are due to dehydration. Drink lots of water, problem solved.
You should be pooping every day, as well. :smallwink:
Congratulations on the marriage! As a health buff, I can tell you that being married ranks up there with water and exercise at extending your lifespan and the quality of your life, statistically speaking.

[Warlawk]

Oooh, well, thanks all. Sounds like I'm on the right track. I work out at least twice a week, often three, for over an hour. I just need to eat a bit more protein (I eat protein right now, just maybe not enough to get good gain) and push myself.

The thing to remember is that if you want to actually bulk up you need to lift heavy. You need to lift something heavy enough that your muscles actually tear a little bit and overcompensate so they heal back stronger. When you're shooting for that kind of a lift it may not take an hour depending on how many parts of your body you target that day.

I've been told the best guideline to build mass is to lift something heavy enough that you cannot do more than 5-7 reps in a set. Heavy enough you simply cannot do more than that. Someone more knowledgeable may have better info for you though.

[Keld Denar]

Haruki-Kun will probably step in here and back this up, but the best range of reps is generally around 3. 2-4ish

[Haruki-kun]

Haruki-Kun will probably step in here and back this up, but the best range of reps is generally around 3. 2-4ish

*backs this up* For strength, yes.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t288/Vaarsuvius89/trainingemphasis.png

I usually do about 5, though. Usually. The occasional exercise with 10.

[Spiryt]

As a rule of thumb, cut fat by diet but build muscle by working out.

Of all good post, that's pretty weird rule of thumb.

You build muscles by dieting as well, before getting into what eat and what not, there's obvious thing : eating more than you burn --> gaining weight
eating less ----> losing weight.

Working out or whatever will usually be crucial in the matter of what that weight exactly is. :smallwink:

[The Anarresti]

Of all good post, that's pretty weird rule of thumb.

You build muscles by dieting as well, before getting into what eat and what not, there's obvious thing : eating more than you burn --> gaining weight
eating less ----> losing weight.

I'll just say straight-up: it is impossible to build muscle without exercise. That exercise can be anything from lifting weights in a gym to doing heavy labor on a farm, but just eating protein will not magically make you stronger. Nothing you eat will make you gain muscle. It can help you gain muscle, but the imperitus is the exercise.
Likewise, with fat, no matter how much you exercise, if you eat like crap you are likely to gain weight. This varies from person to person, though, because of various levels of metabolic activity.



Working out or whatever will usually be crucial in the matter of what that weight exactly is. :smallwink:
This is exactly what I said in my original post anyway. The point of a rule of thumb is that it is good generally, but isn't specific.


EDIT:

*backs this up* For strength, yes.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t288/Vaarsuvius89/trainingemphasis.png

I usually do about 5, though. Usually. The occasional exercise with 10.

Thirded. I agree 100%.

[DeadManSleeping]

A shame Crow doesn't seem to be around anymore. He'd probably have a lot to weigh in with.

[Tyndmyr]

Lift heavy weights, eat lots of protein. There you go.

This, pretty much.

I don't claim to be extremely buff, but I keep in decent shape. I recommend utilizing the hacker's diet(a quick google will get you to an explanation and the simple only tool) to cut weight. It's pretty simple.

Make sure that you're consuming plenty of protein. Not doing so WILL limit growth. Growth doesn't happen in the workout...the workout is just the stimulus for it. A nice, steady protein consumption(including around your workout time) and a reliable, but not crazy workout plan is solid. I like every other day.

Note that protein need not come in the form of expensive shakes or whatever. Eggs are pretty solid. Milk is a fairly inexpensive form of protein, and I'm a fan of chugging flavored milk post-workout. It's probably not the leanest form available, but it's quick and easy.

Note also that weight loss and muscle gain can happen at the same time...but don't expect both to be hitting their theoretical limit at once. Extremely low cal diets can limit muscle gain, and maintaining the protein consumption may interfere with some diets. Regardless, I still suggest working out at least with a light routine while dieting to keep in shape. I find it easier to focus on only one of these while keeping maintenance levels with the other, but your mileage may vary.

The mention of good sleep is a solid one. Not only is sleep medically pretty necessary, shorting yourself on sleep makes it tough to stay motivated.

I dropped over twenty lbs of fat this summer, and converted a fair bit more weight into muscle. I've picked up a fair amount of definition, but haven't quite made it to six pack level yet(still a few more lbs of fat to finish off). Nothing I do is really all that intense...it's a lot more about consistency.

[Haruki-kun]

As a simple breakdown, the success of your endeavor will be:

20% your workout
10% appropriate rest
70% nutrition

The workout is important in that it's what gets things going, and without it the other 80% won't work at all, but the most important thing for succeeding is your nutrition.

[The Anarresti]

Eh I'd say that exercise is worth at least 40% of your success, with 40% nutrition and 20% rest. Of course, I'd pretty young as well as a competitive athlete, and I've never had trouble with excess weight in my life (quite the opposite, in fact) so that effects my outlook.
Diet is very important, but still, fancy diets are overrated. Exercise is the closest thing to a cure-all there is.

[Erloas]

As a simple breakdown, the success of your endeavor will be:

20% your workout
10% appropriate rest
70% nutrition

The workout is important in that it's what gets things going, and without it the other 80% won't work at all, but the most important thing for succeeding is your nutrition.

I would agree with The Anarresti on this, at least depending what results you are looking for. If your looking just as loosing weight you're probably about right, and might be close for building bulk, but nutrition isn't going to do much for your endurance or for your max lift ability.

While I've been working on fine tuning my nutrition for specific results. But the amount and quality of exercise I've been getting lately has changed a lot more then my nutrition over the last 5 years and I'm in much better shape as a result.

[Haruki-kun]

I would agree with The Anarresti on this, at least depending what results you are looking for. If your looking just as loosing weight you're probably about right, and might be close for building bulk, but nutrition isn't going to do much for your endurance or for your max lift ability.

Yes, but the OP asked how to get buff... I'm not thinking about endurance or max lift ability. I might agree on maybe a 60-30-10, but not on 40-40-20.

EDIT: Either way, you need to pay a lot of attention to it.

[banjo1985]

Some good advice here, do you think we could make it a general fitness thread? I think there'd be some demand in the playground, as long as we stay away from medical advice.

I've recently started working out and going to the gym, but not to get buff. I want to improve my cardio and general fitness/stamina, because though I'm not overweight I do feel pretty unfit and my lungs are not what they should be. I've got a goal of doing a half-marathon for a charity that helped my friend when he got leukemia, so stamina is definitely what I'm going for.

As such I've been doing a lot of cardio work (cross-trainers, treadmills, bikes), interval training, and a bit of resistance/muscle building work. I've been doing 2 sets of 12-15 reps, which according to Haruki's chart seems right for what I'm aiming for, so that's good.

I do have a problem though. I don't have arthritis or anything, but I do get quite considerable pain in some of my joints during any form of prolonged exertion, most notably my left knee, right wrist, and hips. If I grit my teeth through it and carry on it'll tend to go away, and I'm left with the general soreness that I guess is a good thing. My question is, should I be persevering through the pain, or is it a sign I'm working out incorrectly? I've been checked out medically and I don't have any quantifiable joint problems, though my wrist problems are due to a multiple breakage when I was younger. But should I be ignoring the pain or should I be working out differently?

[dehro]

I'm naturally buff


...around the waistline

it takes some effort to mantain it though... potatoes, chocolate...


on a more serious note, I used to be rather...solidly built/buff when I still practiced sports regularily ..even though I was never hyper active on that front... I guess I've let myself go a little over the later years..
anyway, my point is that when I did try and keep in good shape, I would "buff out" which was annoying because I'm kinda heavily built..and I didn't think it suit me, especially since I'm a shortarse, and I really wanted to be slimmer instead

I guess we're just never happy with what we have

[Ricky S]

I have been training to get stronger and fitter. I dont really have a set diet and just eat what I feel like. But I am really strong now and can run for hours. You wouldn't be able to tell it from how I look though, I dont have bulging muscles or anything although my shoulders are a lot broader. I weigh nearly 90kgs (198lbs) now.

[The Anarresti]

I wouldn't be averse to having a health and fitness thread, although I/we should probably make a new thread. Heh, I like the idea because it allows me to ramble on about my non-D&D hobby as well as D&D on this website.

[Shadow of the Sun]

The main thing, and I do mean the main thing, about getting "buff" or building muscle is that you need to eat a lot and lift a lot.

On the internet there are a lot of prospective dietary stuff for gaining muscle; one popular one is drinking a gallon of milk a day, known as GOMAD. Another one, one that I am thinking of getting onto later once I've got my general fitness together is adding eggs to every meal. A lot of eggs. Like, six eggs. 15 eggs a day was proscribed to the Indian 7 a side rugby team when they were considered to be underweight for rugby.

Both of those will give you a lot of protein, and a lot of fat. Some people might think of the fat as being counterproductive, but it's not. It encourages testosterone production, and the body needs a helluva lot of energy to produce new muscle tissue, which the fat can provide.

You'll gain body fat, sure, but you'll also get the muscle underneath it, and you can then work the fat off.

Also, it's probably worth noting that staying on either of those diets for any longer than two months is probably a bad idea- the idea is to get you to to up the amount that you're eating; you need to eat a LOT to build muscle. The purported "formula" for gaining muscle is to take your lean muscle mass in kilograms and times that by 2.75 and that's how many grams of protein you need a day. Which is...well, it's a hell of a lot.

As for protein powder...perhaps I'm just really uptight about that stuff, but I'd rather get it via good diet. But some people can't do that, and so add the protein powder; there's nothing wrong with protein powder, I don't know, it just feels...odd to me. A 4 ounce serving of chicken has some 30 grams or so of protein- although I'm not sure how much of that is bioavailable.

Also, worth noting: it is entirely possible to build muscle on a vegetarian diet.
Mike Mahler, whose photo is in the spoiler below, has been a vegan for years. The basic idea is the same: get high amounts of protein and a fairly good amount of healthy fats and the body will respond.

http://tnation.t-nation.com/forum_images/3/2/329936.1060469402198.Indoboard_Mil_Press_2.jpg

P.S. It's worth noting that when I say "lift a lot", it doesn't have to be weights; bodyweight exercise if done right is perfectly suitable for building muscle- have you seen how buff male gymnasts are? And they do all of that via bodyweight exercise; that's the route I'm going to go with because you can do it at home and I'm poor, and because I think it's somewhat safer.

[Erloas]

As for protein powder...perhaps I'm just really uptight about that stuff, but I'd rather get it via good diet. But some people can't do that, and so add the protein powder; there's nothing wrong with protein powder, I don't know, it just feels...odd to me. A 4 ounce serving of chicken has some 30 grams or so of protein- although I'm not sure how much of that is bioavailable.
I think the powder use has a lot to do with convince. Its a lot easier to make and drink a shake right after a workout then it is to make a piece of chicken. The powders are also (at least the good ones) balanced for quick use by the body, which isn't going to be the case with all natural forms. There is also some discussion about the optimal time to take the protein, and if it is within 30 minutes of lifting then thats hard to do with anything you have to prepare.
It also isn't supposed to be any substitute for your normal diet, it is a workout specific supplement to your normal diet. And getting a high amount of protein with as little extra calories as possible could be very important if you are going for a certain look. Especially since any more the shakes are decent tasting (at least the few I've had, I don't use them much any more) and anything other then a plain piece of chicken probably has quite a bit of other calories with it.


I do have a problem though. I don't have arthritis or anything, but I do get quite considerable pain in some of my joints during any form of prolonged exertion, most notably my left knee, right wrist, and hips. If I grit my teeth through it and carry on it'll tend to go away, and I'm left with the general soreness that I guess is a good thing. My question is, should I be persevering through the pain, or is it a sign I'm working out incorrectly? I've been checked out medically and I don't have any quantifiable joint problems, though my wrist problems are due to a multiple breakage when I was younger. But should I be ignoring the pain or should I be working out differently?
Well I ran my first half-marathon in September... I had all of about one month worth of running specific training before that, though I had been doing various cardio and endurance lifting classes in the gym since April. If your primary goal is the half-marathon you need to do a fair amount of just running. Cross-training is very beneficial as well, but you aren't going to get to half-marathon distances comfortably without doing some long training runs.

As for joint pain... it sort of depends, which I know is a vague answer. When I first started doing anything, and again when I started running, I had some joint pain but it mostly went away after the joints got stronger. But if you are doing exercises wrong you can really hurt a joint a lot in a fairly short period of time. Its a different feel between a hurt joint and a joint that is just sore from being worked... but I don't think I could accurately articulate what that difference is. And I've had plenty of times when working out, running usually, where something will hurt, usually a knee after maybe 2-3 miles and then stop hurting and feel fine after another 1-2 miles.
You will get joint pain often if the muscles on both sides of the joint aren't evenly worked, which happens if you focus on just a few certain muscles and don't work the secondary ones as much. A lot of the more full body exercises also work the supporting muscles better and keep things balanced.

I had the advantage of doing almost all of my non-running in classes at the gym and the instructors there all know the proper techniques so I could know early that I was doing everything at least mostly right.

I would suggest getting a personal trainer for at least a few lessons to verify that you are using proper technique and also to maybe show you exercises you weren't aware of that will help you work those secondary support muscles better. I know during classes that we do a huge number of exercises that I would never have even known about, let alone done on my own, if I didn't take the classes. Also yoga and pilates helps a lot in any sort of soreness and they focus a lot on the core which people tend to under use. The balance poses are great for those support muscles.

[The Anarresti]

I do have a problem though. I don't have arthritis or anything, but I do get quite considerable pain in some of my joints during any form of prolonged exertion, most notably my left knee, right wrist, and hips. If I grit my teeth through it and carry on it'll tend to go away, and I'm left with the general soreness that I guess is a good thing. My question is, should I be persevering through the pain, or is it a sign I'm working out incorrectly? I've been checked out medically and I don't have any quantifiable joint problems, though my wrist problems are due to a multiple breakage when I was younger. But should I be ignoring the pain or should I be working out differently?

I have suffered from an agonizingly painful hip flexor injury due to running and swimming competitively. If you are only working out/lifting for your own physical fitness, there is no reason not to avoid injury. Do not work through really bad pain like that.
It could easily be you are lifting incorrectly, there are probably professionals you can ask depending on the gym. Or even, if you don't feel like spending money, you can link us fitness-buffs-in-the-playground to a video of you doing some lifts and we can critique your technique.
If you don't mind my asking, how old are you? Because that really makes a difference in terms of aches and pains and injury. Granted, young age does not injury-protection make: I'm 18 and my hip injury woke me up last night, I've been fighting the darn thing for two years.
Regardless of your age, properly warming up and stretching are your best protections against injury, as well as stretching and icing the sore spots afterwards. Heating pads are also good, especially before working out. My orthopedist strongly suggested that one should stretch every day.

[Haruki-kun]

As such I've been doing a lot of cardio work (cross-trainers, treadmills, bikes), interval training, and a bit of resistance/muscle building work. I've been doing 2 sets of 12-15 reps, which according to Haruki's chart seems right for what I'm aiming for, so that's good.

Ur doin it rite. I'd suggest a couple more sets. How many exercises are you doing?


I do have a problem though. I don't have arthritis or anything, but I do get quite considerable pain in some of my joints during any form of prolonged exertion, most notably my left knee, right wrist, and hips. If I grit my teeth through it and carry on it'll tend to go away, and I'm left with the general soreness that I guess is a good thing. My question is, should I be persevering through the pain, or is it a sign I'm working out incorrectly? I've been checked out medically and I don't have any quantifiable joint problems, though my wrist problems are due to a multiple breakage when I was younger. But should I be ignoring the pain or should I be working out differently?

Aching is OK, but pain is not... As Anarresti said, first make sure you're doing the exercise right. Improper form can hurt you.


I wouldn't be averse to having a health and fitness thread, although I/we should probably make a new thread. Heh, I like the idea because it allows me to ramble on about my non-D&D hobby as well as D&D on this website.

I approve of this.


Also, worth noting: it is entirely possible to build muscle on a vegetarian diet.
Mike Mahler, whose photo is in the spoiler below, has been a vegan for years. The basic idea is the same: get high amounts of protein and a fairly good amount of healthy fats and the body will respond.

http://tnation.t-nation.com/forum_images/3/2/329936.1060469402198.Indoboard_Mil_Press_2.jpg

Oh, yeah, completely possible. *nod* It just requires a little more of a strict diet.

[The Anarresti]

New thread is begun. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12301965)