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View Full Version : Can't tell if overpowered or underpowered PrC (PEACH)



sengmeng
2011-11-28, 08:21 PM
I have no fluff currently and am not really sure how, in basic concept, this idea is different from a Factotum, but I hope that it is different enough in mechanism to rate existing. I'm also not crazy about the name. I want him to be able to do literally anything the PHB base classes can (with proper build) but not be the best at it. I don't want to nerf it at all; if it seems unbalanced I'd rather hit it with more crippling prerequisites than change a single thing on the table. However, if there is a glaring chance for rabid abuse that I didn't see, I'd like to know.

I swear I'm not insane.

Gestalt Adventurer
Prerequisites:
Able to cast 1st level arcane spells, able to cast 1st level divine spells, sneak attack ability, base attack +6, Evasion Ability
Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike

Weapons and Armor: The gestalt adventurer gains no weapon and armor proficiencies.

HD: d10

Skills: 6 + intelligence modifier per level. Skill list: All

{table] Level |Base Attack Bonus | Fort Save | Ref Save | Will Save | Special

1st | +1 | +2 | +2 | +2 | Sneak attack +1d6, +1 level of arcane spells,Trap Sense +2
2nd | +2 | +3 | +3 | +3 | Smite 1/day, +1 level of divine spells, Turn Undead
3rd | +3 | +3 | +3 | +3 | Improved unarmed damage, +1 level of arcane spells, +1 level of divine spells
4th | +4 | +4 | +4 | +4 | Trap Sense +4, +1 level of divine spells, Bonus Feat
5th | +5 | +4 | +4 | +4 | Sneak attack +2d6, Smite 2/day,+1 level of arcane spells
6th | +6/+1 | +5 | +5 |+5 | Uncanny Dodge, +1 level of arcane spells, +1 level of divine spells
7th | +7/+2 | +5 | +5 | +5 | Fast Movement + 10ft, Sneak Attack +3d6, +1 level of arcane spells
8th | +8/+3 | +6 | +6 | +6 | Smite 3/day, Flurry, +1 level of divine spells
9th | +9/+4 | +6 | +6 | +6 | Improved Evasion, +1 level of arcane spells,+1 level of divine spells
10th | +10/+5 | +7 | +7 | +7 | Sneak attack +4d6, +1 level of arcane spells, +1 level of divine spells

[/table]


Sneak Attack: As the rogue ability. Sneak attack from multiple sources stacks.
Trap Sense: The Gestalt Adventurer gains Trap Sense as the Barbarian ability. If he has Trap Sense from another source, the bonus stacks. This bonus increases by another +2 at 4th level.
Turn Undead: The Gestalt Adventurer can Turn Undead as a cleric of half his Gestalt Adventurer level plus any cleric levels he may have.
Smite: Usable once per day, the Gestalt Adventurer adds his Charisma modifier to his attack roll and his character level plus 2x his strength bonus to his damage roll, to a single attack. The extra damage stacks with whatever strength bonus he would normally add to the attack. At 5th and 8th level, he gains another use per day.
Improved Unarmed Damage: The Gestalt Adventurer's unarmed attack damage increases to 1d6, unless it is 1d6 or higher already, in which case it increases by one dice size, if he is medium size. If they are small, then their unarmed attack damage increases to 1d4, unless it is 1d4 or higher already, in which case it increases by one dice size.
Bonus Feat: The Gestalt Adventurer may choose any feat he meets the prerequisites for.
Uncanny Dodge: The Gestalt Adventurer gains Uncanny Dodge, unless they already have it, which case, they gain Improved Uncanny Dodge.
Fast Movement: The Gestalt Adventurer’s base movement increases by 10ft per round. This stacks with a barbarian’s Fast Movement ability and only functions in light or no armor.
Flurry: The Gestalt Adventurer may treat any one melee weapon as if it had the Speed property, gaining an extra attack per round at their highest base attack bonus when making a full attack. The Flurry ability does not stack with any other ability, effect, or weapon property that grants another attack, such as Haste. This ability has no effect on a weapon with the speed property.

erikun
2011-11-28, 08:39 PM
You cannot enter this class until 6th level, minimum, and are more likely waiting until 8th. It requires Cleric and Wizard and Rogue, and even if you somehow work around those prerequisites, you're looking at 4/4 or 7/1 for your caster levels. The prestige class is 7/10 on both sides as well, meaning a grant total of four caster levels lost... and in more reasonable circumstances, six caster levels lost.

In exchange, we get... +5d6 sneak attack, Turning (which would be far better with a straight Cleric), Smite, and a couple of other abilities that aren't as impressive. It runs into the same problem as the Mystic Theurge, but without the advantage of having a lot of spell slots in exchange.

So... what was the idea behind this? A Fighter/Rogue/Paladin/Monk/Cleric/Wizard prestige class? Would it, perhaps, be a better idea to allow some more generic entry requirements, and then hand out abilities useful to everyone? And, for that matter, take a look at what a Super-Adventurer would really need, rather than just a few bits from everything.

sengmeng
2011-11-28, 10:15 PM
Okay, that answered my first question. Underpowered.

If you could get in at 4th level by dropping the BAB requirement completely... how about then? I'm looking at it as a primary striker who can end up with nearly a fighter's BAB and HP, while trading his armor and bonus feats for magic tricks, sneak attack, skills, and mobility... maybe it's because I'm comparing him to a fighter, and you're comparing him to primary spellcasters...

jiriku
2011-11-29, 12:34 AM
Yeah, never compare to fighter. The fighter is the red-headed stepchild of the PHB. He'd be locked in the closet if the monk wasn't already in there.

Honestly? A 10-level prestige class is going to be awkward and limited no matter what you do. I'd suggest a 20-level base class with spellcasting of levels 0-6, able to select spells from both the cleric and sorcerer/wizard lists, with class features liberally stolen from fighter, rogue, and monk. Not only can you keep everything you've got now, you can add more, and you'll duck so many problems by smoothing it all out as a 20-level progression.

erikun
2011-11-29, 09:58 AM
I'm looking at it as a primary striker who can end up with nearly a fighter's BAB and HP, while trading his armor and bonus feats for magic tricks, sneak attack, skills, and mobility...
Okay, I think we can work with that. It sounds like you want a Rogue/Warmage mix with good mobility. That shouldn't be too difficult.

Prerequisites:
BAB +4
+2d6 Sneak Attack
Evasion
2nd level arcane spellcasting

This would make Rogue 3/Warmage 4 or Rogue 3/Wizard 3 your most common entry. The BAB requirement is just to prevent, say, a Wizard 1/Swordsage 1 with a Ring of Evasion and a shadow hand maneuver from trying to qualify.

As for the class itself, I would recommend full spellcaster progression. You are already giving up 3 caster levels for entry; anything less and their spells won't be able to participate meaningfully in the fight. 1/3 sneak attack progression works, and it sounds like you want fast movement as well. Full BAB should be okay.

{table] Level | Special | Spellcasting
1st | Sneak Attack +1d6, Uncanny Dodge | +1 level of arcane spellcasting
2nd | Fast Movement +10 | +1 level of arcane spellcasting
3rd | Improved Uncanny Dodge | +1 level of arcane spellcasting
4th | Sneak Attack +2d6 | +1 level of arcane spellcasting
5th | Fast Movement +20 | +1 level of arcane spellcasting
6th | Improved Evasion | +1 level of arcane spellcasting
7th | Sneak Attack +3d6 | +1 level of arcane spellcasting
8th | Fast Movement +30 | +1 level of arcane spellcasting
9th | ??? | +1 level of arcane spellcasting
10th | Sneak Attack +4d6 | +1 level of arcane spellcasting [/table]

I'm not sure what ability to give him at 9th level, beyond spellcasting, but this sounds like the abilities you are interested in. Mobility, Spring Attack, and Shot on the Run are possible "bonus" feats you could give out as well, along with the pounce ability. I'm not sure what levels would be appropriate, though - you'd want them earlier, as opposed to around 9th level (which would be level 17 for most characters).


If you are thinking more along the lines of "rogue who can fight and use a bunch of magical toys", though, you might look at making a more UMD-focused class.

Roderick_BR
2011-11-29, 10:09 AM
Looks like this will either underpowered for trying to do everything and being mediocre at everything, or do everything and be awfully overpowered.
I think you are trying to be *too* generic on what it can do. It's better to work on the concept of the class first, and work from there. Remember Prestige Classes are supposed to be a specialization, he drops the ability to gain high level stuff from base classes, to gain unique abilities, which explains why ANY fighter PrC is good, and ANY wizard/sorcerer/cleric PrC with full casting progression is awesome.

Also, Jiriku, can I quote your fighter comparison comment? It's a sad, but funny truth.

jiriku
2011-11-29, 05:27 PM
Lol sure, be my guest.

sengmeng
2011-12-01, 12:25 AM
I guess that covers most of what I wanted to do, erikun. Maybe the ??? can be filled with a bonus feat, such as the ones you suggested: Mobility, Spring Attack, or Shot on the Run.