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NeoSeraphi
2011-11-29, 04:30 PM
The Stunning Fist Master

Prerequisites:

Feat: Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, Ability Focus (Stunning Fist)
BAB: +4

HD: d8

Class Skills: The stunning fist masterís class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).

Skill Points: 4+Int per level

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|+1|+2|+0|+2|Insightful Fist, Stunning Expert, Unarmed Strike

2nd|+2|+3|+0|+3|Decisive Strike, Enchanted Fists

3rd|+3|+3|+1|+3|Dazing Fist, Bonus Feat

4th|+4|+4|+1|+4|Broken Skull

5th|+5|+4|+1|+4|Shattering Fist

6th|+6|+5|+2|+5|Staggering Strike, Bonus Feat

7th|+7|+5|+2|+5|Stunning Blitz

8th|+8|+6|+2|+6|Mighty Strike

9th|+9|+6|+3|+6|Student of the Fist, Bonus Feat

10th|+10|+7|+3|+7|Innate Stunning
[/table]

Class Features:

Note: For the purposes of RAW, all feats that consume a daily use of Stunning Fist count as Stunning Fist for these class features (like Freezing the Lifeblood gaining bonuses to its DC if the conditions are met, etc) except where otherwise noted.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A stunning fist master gains proficiency with his unarmed strike, if he is not already proficient with it.

Insightful Fist (Ex): The way of the Stunning Fist involves using your perception to deliver a fierce blow, rather than your strength. A stunning fist master takes this to the next level.

A stunning fist master adds his Wisdom modifier to his attack and damage rolls made with his unarmed strikes. This bonus is in addition to his Strength modifier. This bonus stacks with the Intuitive Attack feat.

Stunning Expert (Ex): A stunning fist master delivers powerful, precise blows that can shatter rib cages and cause severe internal damage. His Stunning Fists are more powerful than any other.

A stunning fist master's class levels grant him two extra daily uses of the Stunning Fist feat, rather than 1/4.

Unarmed Strike (Ex): A stunning fist master's strikes are deadlier than any sword. The stunning fist master's class levels count as monk levels for determining the damage of his unarmed strike. His class levels stack with any actual monk levels for determining the damage of his unarmed strike.

Decisive Strike (Ex): A stunning fist master can drop a foe with a single strike. All he need do is take a moment to breathe.

At 2nd level, a stunning fist master can, as a full-round action, make a single attack with his unarmed strike at his highest attack bonus, with a -2 penalty. If his attack hits, he deals double damage. If the attack was used to deliver a Stunning Fist attack, the stunning fist's save DC increases by +2.

At 5th character level, the penalty to the attack roll drops to -1. At 9th character level, it disappears. At 11th character level, the stunning fist master may make two decisive strike attacks with a single full-round action, but may not use both decisive strikes against the same creature.

If the stunning fist master already has the decisive strike class feature, such as from being a PHB II variant monk, his decisive strike class feature deals triple damage if it hits, and the DC for a Stun attack increases by +4 instead of +2.

Creatures immune to critical hits are immune to decisive strike.

Enchanted Fists (Su): At 2nd level, a stunning fist master's unarmed strikes gain a +1 enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls and are treated as magic weapons for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction. The stunning fist master may enchant his body as if it was a magic weapon. He still needs a caster and to pay the appropriate amount of gp. However, he enchants his entire body at once (He need not spend gp for both his fists, or his elbow or feet if he is a monk. Paying enough gp to increase his enhancement bonus to +2 for one of them increases it to +2 for all of them)

The stunning fist master and his equipment cannot be harmed by his enchantments (For example, the pants he was wearing would not be burned up by his knees if he had the flaming enchantment)

Dazing Fist (Ex): At 3rd level, a stunning fist master can make adjustments to deal with his foe. If a stunning fist master delivers a Stunning Fist attack to a creature who cannot be stunned, but can be dazed, the creature must roll its Fortitude save anyway, and if it fails its saving throw, it is dazed for one round.

Bonus Feat (Ex): At 3rd, 6th, and 9th level, a stunning fist master gains a bonus feat. This feat must have the Stunning Fist feat as a prerequisite. The stunning fist master must meet all prerequisites of the feat, unless he has levels in monk, in which case, he may ignore any Base Attack Bonus requirements of the feat (he still must meet all other prerequisites).

Broken Skull (Ex): One Stunning Fist is enough to knock a creature down. But two Stunning Fists...now that's a different story!

Starting at 4th level, when the stunning fist master delivers a Stunning Fist attack to a stunned creature, if the creature fails its saving throw, the stunning fist master's attack breaks apart what remaining connection the creature's brain has to its nerves, and the creature just passes out.

If a stunning fist master delivers a Stunning Fist attack to a stunned creature, and the creature fails its saving throw, it must make a Concentration check or an Autohypnosis check (the creature's choice), DC 15+the stunning fist master's Wisdom modifier, or become unconscious for 1 hour.

Unlike the rest of the stunning fist master's class features, this ability only applies if the stunning fist master uses the actual Stunning Fist feat (and not Weakening Touch or Freezing the Lifeblood or whatever)

A creature that is immune to critical hits is immune to the Broken Skull ability.

Shattering Fist (Sp): At 5th level, a stunning fist master can draw upon his inner strength, and deliver a concussive blow to any creature, even if that creature is not alive.

Starting at 5th level, when a stunning fist master makes an unarmed strike attack against an undead or a construct, he may declare he is using a daily use of his Stunning Fist feat. If he misses, the use is still consumed. If he hits, the stunning fist master forces the creature to make a Fortitude (Object) saving throw (DC 16+Wisdom) or be affected as if the stunning fist master cast the disintegrate spell on it, with a caster level equal to the stunning fist master's character level.

A stunning fist master can only make one such attempt per round, unless he has the Rapid Stunning feat (in which case, use that feat as guidelines, as if this were the Stunning Fist feat)

A stunning fist master must have a minimum of 16 Wisdom to use the Shattering Fist ability.

Staggering Strike (Ex): Starting at 6th level, any creature who fails its saving throw against one of the stunning fist master's Stunning Fist abilities or class features is also knocked prone.

Stunning Blitz (Ex): A stunning fist master who is able to gain enough momentum can blow right into a foe, using his speed to make his fist connect with deadly force.

Starting at 7th level, a stunning fist master deals double damage with his unarmed strikes at the end of a charge. If he has an ability that allows him to make more than one attack at the end of a charge, only the first attack's damage is doubled. (If the first attack misses, but another attack hits, the attack(s) that do hit deal normal damage.)

Additionally, if the stunning fist master attempts to deliver a Stunning Fist at the end of a charge, its DC is increased by 2.

Mighty Strike (Ex): Starting at 8th level, any creature who successfully saves against the effects of the stunning fist master's Stunning Fist feat is instead nauseated for one round. (This applies to the specific Stunning Fist feat only)

Student of the Fist (Ex): A stunning fist master who reaches 9th level has trained his mind and body to work together as one, and his training has paid off. The stunning fist master receives a +4 bonus to his Wisdom score.

Innate Stunning (Ex): A stunning fist master who reaches 10th level has mastered his art so beautifully that it is now second nature to him. He no longer feels the drain of the stunning fist, and his fists and feet are weapons of pure destruction.

At 10th level, the stunning fist master is able to use the Stunning Fist feat and all other class features and feats that consume a daily use of the Stunning Fist feat at will. He is also able to use them one additional time per round (so twice per round, if he does not have the Rapid Stunning feat)

Wyntonian
2011-11-29, 05:33 PM
Looks interesting! One question though, what sort of bonus is the +4 to wisdom from Student of the Fist?

NeoSeraphi
2011-11-29, 05:36 PM
Looks interesting! One question though, what sort of bonus is the +4 to wisdom from Student of the Fist?

It's untyped, like the bonus from Dragon Disciple.

Zakaroth
2011-11-29, 08:45 PM
Looks like another nice creation. Only one thing I find rather strange is that it has no unarmed damage progression, unless I missed it. Any reason for this?

NeoSeraphi
2011-11-29, 08:47 PM
Looks like another nice creation. Only one thing I find rather strange is that it has no unarmed damage progression, unless I missed it. Any reason for this?

It does. The unarmed strike class feature, level 1

Zakaroth
2011-11-29, 08:57 PM
Doh, my bad. Must have read over it a couple of times.. :smallconfused:, time to sleep I guess. I'll give it another look when im rested.

NeoSeraphi
2011-12-01, 12:44 AM
No problem. How's it look now that you've rested?

DeAnno
2011-12-01, 10:45 AM
Creatures immune to critical hits are immune to decisive strike.

This seems... odd. Maybe "Creatures immune to critical hits don't take double or triple damage from decisive strike."

motionmatrix
2011-12-01, 11:27 AM
Another great Seraphi creation. *insert obvious (un)surprised face at great homebrewing*


Prerequisites:

Feat: Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, Ability Focus (Stunning Fist)
Saves: Base Fortitude Save +5

Fortitude bonus? I don't think I ever seen a base save as a prerequisite, although I can't see why it could not be used either.



Note: For the purposes of RAW, all feats that consume a daily use of Stunning Fist count as Stunning Fist for these class features (like Freezing the Lifeblood gaining bonuses to its DC if the conditions are met, etc)

unless otherwise specified. You have a few (iirc) that do not.


Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A stunning fist master gains proficiency with his unarmed strike, if he is not already proficient with it.

He has improved unarmed strike, remember? =)



Enchanted Fists (Su): At 2nd level, a stunning fist master's unarmed strikes gain a +1 enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls and are treated as magic weapons for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction. The stunning fist master may enchant his body as if it was a magic weapon. He still needs a caster and to pay the appropriate amount of gp. However, he enchants his entire body at once (He need not spend gp for both his fists, or his elbow or feet if he is a monk. Paying enough gp to increase his enhancement bonus to +2 for one of them increases it to +2 for all of them)

love the idea of a monk on fire, everywhere, that's cool. Specify his equipment is protected from any enchantments on his body, I could see a dm being annoying about how someone keeps going naked every fight as they flame up. (Also love the thought of a body turning dark blue as the icy burst enchantment takes over, turning them almost into a glacier).

How does sunder work against this character? same as it always did with monk?



Bonus Feat (Ex): At 3rd, 6th, and 9th level, a stunning fist master gains a bonus feat. This feat must have the Stunning Fist feat as a prerequisite. The stunning fist master must meet all prerequisites of the feat, unless he has levels in monk, in which case, he may ignore any Base Attack Bonus requirements of the feat (he still must meet all other prerequisites).

I would allow choices from the monk bonus feat list as well, if for no other reason so the character has an option to not be only about stunning fists (even stunning fists masters would realize that there are things that are immune to his specialty, and would learn one or two things to compensate.)



Broken Skull (Ex): One Stunning Fist is enough to knock a creature down. But two Stunning Fists...now that's a different story!

Starting at 4th level, when the stunning fist master delivers a Stunning Fist attack to a stunned creature, if the creature fails its saving throw, the stunning fist master's attack breaks apart what remaining connection the creature's brain has to its nerves, and the creature just passes out.

If a stunning fist master delivers a Stunning Fist attack to a stunned creature, and the creature fails its saving throw, it must make a Concentration check or an Autohypnosis check (the creature's choice), DC 15+the stunning fist master's Wisdom modifier, or become unconscious for 1 hour.

Unlike the rest of the stunning fist master's class features, this ability only applies if the stunning fist master uses the actual Stunning Fist feat (and not Weakening Touch or Freezing the Lifeblood or whatever)

A creature that is immune to critical hits is immune to the Broken Skull ability.

I would probably make this happen a bit easier by adding an extension to the stun; make the stun last an extra round.



Stunning Blitz (Ex): A stunning fist master who is able to gain enough momentum can blow right into a foe, using his speed to make his fist connect with deadly force.

Starting at 7th level, a stunning fist master deals double damage with his unarmed strikes at the end of a charge. If he has an ability that allows him to make more than one attack at the end of a charge, only the first attack's damage is doubled. (If the first attack misses, but another attack hits, the attack(s) that do hit deal normal damage.)

Additionally, if the stunning fist master attempts to deliver a Stunning Fist at the end of a charge, its DC is increased by 2.

How does it interact with leaping dragon kick feat(I hope that was the right name, its been forever) iirc, that feat effectively does something very similar. I could be completely wrong.


Love the concept, as always, I will continue to read your work and use it to make my players hate gitp a bit more ^.^

NeoSeraphi
2011-12-01, 12:32 PM
Another great Seraphi creation. *insert obvious (un)surprised face at great homebrewing*


Why thank you.



unless otherwise specified. You have a few (iirc) that do not.


Okay



He has improved unarmed strike, remember? =)


Improved Unarmed Strike does not grant you proficiency with unarmed strikes.


Monks are proficient with club, crossbow (light or heavy), dagger, handaxe, javelin, kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, siangham, and sling


You are considered to be armed even when unarmed óthat is, you do not provoke attacks or opportunity from armed opponents when you attack them while unarmed. However, you still get an attack of opportunity against any opponent who makes an unarmed attack on you.

In addition, your unarmed strikes can deal lethal or nonlethal damage, at your option.

See? Monks are not proficient with their unarmed strikes. So I gave it to them.



love the idea of a monk on fire, everywhere, that's cool. Specify his equipment is protected from any enchantments on his body, I could see a dm being annoying about how someone keeps going naked every fight as they flame up. (Also love the thought of a body turning dark blue as the icy burst enchantment takes over, turning them almost into a glacier).


Alright.



How does sunder work against this character? same as it always did with monk?


You can't sunder a person's fists.



I would allow choices from the monk bonus feat list as well, if for no other reason so the character has an option to not be only about stunning fists (even stunning fists masters would realize that there are things that are immune to his specialty, and would learn one or two things to compensate.)


The class is not exclusive to the monk. Another class who joined would not have monastic training and therefore have no reason to qualify for monk feats.



I would probably make this happen a bit easier by adding an extension to the stun; make the stun last an extra round.


That would be unfair. The character has to make this happen on his own, either by taking the Rapid Stunning feat or by working together with his party members. (The capstone allows him to make two Stunning Attacks per round anyway, so by 10th you can do it on your own)



How does it interact with leaping dragon kick feat(I hope that was the right name, its been forever) iirc, that feat effectively does something very similar. I could be completely wrong.

The only feat I could find that matched the name was the Leaping Kick feat, which lets you deal an extra 1d12 damage at the end of a charge with your unarmed strike. If you had that feat, the extra damage would be doubled.



Love the concept, as always, I will continue to read your work and use it to make my players hate gitp a bit more ^.^

Thank you. Too bad you didn't mention Seraphi Homebrew, otherwise I could sig it. :smallsmile:

motionmatrix
2011-12-01, 03:05 PM
Improved Unarmed Strike does not grant you proficiency with unarmed strikes.

See? Monks are not proficient with their unarmed strikes. So I gave it to them.


You got me there.



The class is not exclusive to the monk. Another class who joined would not have monastic training and therefore have no reason to qualify for monk feats.

Good point.



That would be unfair. The character has to make this happen on his own, either by taking the Rapid Stunning feat or by working together with his party members. (The capstone allows him to make two Stunning Attacks per round anyway, so by 10th you can do it on your own)

I do not know the rapid stunning feat, so I assume that you can pick it as one of the bonus feats?



The only feat I could find that matched the name was the Leaping Kick feat, which lets you deal an extra 1d12 damage at the end of a charge with your unarmed strike. If you had that feat, the extra damage would be doubled.

sounds about right.




Thank you. Too bad you didn't mention Seraphi Homebrew, otherwise I could sig it. :smallsmile:

Oh Noes!!



Another great Seraphi creation. *insert obvious (un)surprised face at great homebrewing*

Love the concept, as always, I will continue to read your work and use it to make my players hate gitp a bit more ^.^


Another great Seraphi Homebrew creation. *insert obvious (un)surprised face at great homebrewing*

Love the concept, as always, I will continue to read your work and use it to make my players hate gitp a bit more ^.^

LOVE THE SERAPHI HOMEBREWS! Bring on the tankards, this one is worth drinking! O.O


(is that better? =)

NeoSeraphi
2011-12-01, 03:06 PM
Definitely, as you can see from my newly updated signature!

NeoSeraphi
2011-12-01, 03:50 PM
By the way, I upped the save requirements so a character couldn't multiclass his way in by level 4.

Edit: Crap, you can still do it if you take 2 levels of monk and one level of favored soul....hmmm...

NeoSeraphi
2011-12-01, 03:53 PM
There we go! 8 ranks in Climb. I know it makes no sense, but that basically means you have 5 levels in a melee class. So there we go.

Yitzi
2011-12-01, 09:29 PM
If it makes no sense it probably should be avoided. Instead, make the requirement Stunning Fist 5/day.

NeoSeraphi
2011-12-02, 12:17 AM
If it makes no sense it probably should be avoided. Instead, make the requirement Stunning Fist 5/day.

That would require a non-monk to be 20th level. That's not what I want.

ericgrau
2011-12-02, 01:10 AM
I stopped crunching numbers after (a) finding that foes auto-fail their save in the example ECL 16 stunning fist master you gave and then (b) running into additional effects that add on to the stun as if that weren't enough. That combined with the attack bonus boosts means eventually he doesn't miss either. I think you need to get a table of average monster saves by CR and check over your save DC scaling again. Likewise try a few test builds and look at the attack bonus compared to other builds to make sure there's an actual reason to even roll the d20 besides checking for 1s.

And then on top of that you did everything possible to get the damage up to normal melee damage... on top of the automatic stuns. Thats' a bit of an action economy problem right there. It's fine to bring someone up to par with someone else, not so fine to bring him up to par with 2 someone else. Or, to exaggerate, it's as if you said "I don't like fighters vs. wizards or clerics. I'm going to give fighters full 9th level casting at 17 in both classes and the ability to cast 1 spell from each class in the same round, there problem solved." Even after the individual abilities are brought back down to par, they need to go down a notch further if you want to keep everything.

I think decisive strike does less damage and has less chance of stunning than a full attack.

Besides that... the abilities seem reasonable enough. There sure are a lot of them and feats on top of that, but some are minor so it works ok. If anything I might do a feat every 4 levels but that's still only 1 feat difference.

NeoSeraphi
2011-12-02, 01:14 AM
I stopped crunching numbers after (a) finding that foes auto-fail their save in the example ECL 16 stunning fist master you gave and then (b) running into additional effects that add on to the stun as if that weren't enough. That combined with the attack bonus boosts means eventually he doesn't miss either. I think you need to get a table of average monster saves by CR and check over your save DC scaling again. Likewise try a few test builds and look at the attack bonus compared to other builds to make sure there's an actual reason to even roll the d20 besides checking for 1s.

I never playtest my work. Too much work, and it's not fun. Besides, I wanted this class to end up with high DC. Fortitude saves at high levels are ridiculous, not to mention how many creatures are simply immune to Stunning at that level.



And then on top of that you did everything possible to get the damage up to normal melee damage... on top of the automatic stuns. Thats' a bit of an action economy problem right there. It's fine to bring someone up to par with someone else, not so fine to bring him up to par with 2 someone else. Or, to exaggerate, it's as if you said "I don't like fighters vs. wizards or clerics. I'm going to give fighters full 9th level casting at 17 in both classes and the ability to cast 1 spell from each class in the same round, there problem solved." Even after the individual abilities are brought back down to par, they need to go down a notch further if you want to keep everything.


Up to par with who? What constitutes "normal melee damage"? Every fighting style has a different average damage output.



I think decisive strike does less damage and has less chance of stunning than a full attack.


Decisive Strike is from the PHB II. I lifted it directly from the monk alternate class feature of the same name. I like it for its flavor.

Zakaroth
2011-12-02, 09:18 AM
Ok, took another look at it and most of it seems fine to me.
The only thing im worried about a bit is Might Strike. Well, not so much it alone, but when combined with Innate Stunning. Doesn't this allow you to sort of perma-stun/nauseate your opponents most of the time (at least for as long as you hit your targets)? Especially because it seems to work well with Dazing Fist, enabling a broader range of creatures to be affected. Although lots are immune to these effects at higher level..

ericgrau
2011-12-02, 10:24 AM
I think all the non-numerical special abilities are fine though. If you focus on those kinds of abilities you can get creative and make something fun to play without worrying about making it so over the top that it's totally unplayable. I like those kinds of abilities that you came up with. It probably won't be perfect, but at least it'll be something you can try out in a real game and see what happens. The trap is to hand out +X here and there and not realize what it all adds up to. For example stunning fist has a reputation for scaling slow but with rapid stunning and all the other special things you added you could go back to 10 + 1/2 level + wis and it'll still be worth focusing on.

Yitzi
2011-12-02, 11:15 AM
That would require a non-monk to be 20th level. That's not what I want.

Ok...maybe make the requirement be BAB 5. It does mean that a pure monk needs to be sixth level rather than 5th before getting in, but that's not too bad, and actually is pretty standard (Someone with no monk levels will be able to reach the BAB by ECL 5, but can't take Stunning Fist until BAB 8).

NeoSeraphi
2011-12-02, 12:48 PM
Ok...maybe make the requirement be BAB 5. It does mean that a pure monk needs to be sixth level rather than 5th before getting in, but that's not too bad, and actually is pretty standard (Someone with no monk levels will be able to reach the BAB by ECL 5, but can't take Stunning Fist until BAB 8).

No, it means a pure monk needs to be 7th level. And taking pure monk for 7 levels would make me die a little inside, so...


The trap is to hand out +X here and there and not realize what it all adds up to. For example stunning fist has a reputation for scaling slow but with rapid stunning and all the other special things you added you could go back to 10 + 1/2 level + wis and it'll still be worth focusing on.

Fine, I guess I'll just lower the DC back to 10+1/2.


The only thing im worried about a bit is Might Strike. Well, not so much it alone, but when combined with Innate Stunning. Doesn't this allow you to sort of perma-stun/nauseate your opponents most of the time (at least for as long as you hit your targets)? Especially because it seems to work well with Dazing Fist, enabling a broader range of creatures to be affected. Although lots are immune to these effects at higher level.

Innate Stunning comes into play at 15th level, earliest. The reason I'm giving it in the first place is to reduce book-keeping at that level, and to reduce decision-making. High level melee has enough problems, it doesn't need to worry about conserving its resources as well.

Yitzi
2011-12-02, 03:51 PM
No, it means a pure monk needs to be 7th level. And taking pure monk for 7 levels would make me die a little inside, so...

Whoops. Ok, so BAB 4 then.

NeoSeraphi
2011-12-02, 04:04 PM
Whoops. Ok, so BAB 4 then.

Hmm...yes, since a monk has +0 BAB at first level, even if you just dipped it, you wouldn't be able to meet the requirements until at least 5th level...okay, BAB +4 it is.