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Laucorn
2011-11-30, 06:19 PM
This is an idea for a class I've been working on for my group to use in an up and coming campaign and I'm wanting to get some input on it and maybe some suggestions to balance it out a bit.


http://i.neoseeker.com/ca/final_fantasy_iv_conceptart_P8ER2.jpg

Abilities: Strength is the key ability of the Dark Knight as it affects his ability to inflict damage. Constitution is a very important ability for the dark knight as Higher Hitpoints mean more use of his/her Darkness ability. Wisdom is also important as they effect, many of the dark knight abilities.

Races: Any race can become a dark knight, although humans being drawn towards power will often do so more commonly.

Alignment: Any

Weapon and Armor Proficencies:
The Dark Knight is Proficient with all Simple and martial Weapons, and all types of armor but not shields.

Class Skills (2 + Int modifier per level, 4 at 1st level)
Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Profession (Wis), Spot (Wis), Search (Int), and Listen (Wis), Jump (Str), Climb (Str), Diplomacy (Cha), Bluff (Cha), Sense Motive (Cha)


The Dark Knight Hit Die: d10
Base
Attack Fort Ref Will
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special
1st +1 +2 +0 +2 Souleater, Darkness Wave 1d10
2nd +2 +3 +0 +3 Dark Blessing, Weapon Aptitude
3rd +3 +3 +1 +3 Aura of Fear 5ft, Darkness Wave 2d10, Bonus Feat
4th +4 +4 +1 +4 Arcane Resistance, Dark Vision 30ft, Dark Aura
5th +5 +4 +1 +4 Second Wind 1/Day, Mettle, Dark Resistance, Darkness Wave 3d10
6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +5 Aura of fear 10ft, Bonus Feat
7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +5 Second Wind 2/Day, Darkness Wave 4d10
8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +6 Infernal Toughness
9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +6 Aura of Fear 15ft, Bonus Feat, Darkness Wave 5d10
10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +7 Second Wind 2/Day
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +7 Dark Vision 60ft, Darkness Wave 6d10
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +8 Aura of Fear 20ft, Bonus Feat
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +8 Poison Proof, Darkness Wave 7d10
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +9 Disease Proof
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +9 Aura of Fear 25ft, Second Wind 3/Day, Darkness Wave 8d10, Bonus Feat
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +10 Battle Mastery
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Darkness Wave 9d10
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Aura of Fear 30ft, Bonus Feat
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 True Dark Vision, Darkness Wave 10d10
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Second Wind 4/Day

Souleater: A dark knight, before making attack rolls for a round, may choose to subtract any number from her Hit Points in increments of one (Maximum of 5) to add +2 her next melee attack roll and add the same number to her next melee damage roll for every increment of 2 she spent (Maximum of +10). The ammount of Hit Points that can be spent increases by 5, and the increases to attack and damage rolls by this ability increases by 10 at 5th level, and every five levels there after (10th, 15th, etc etc)

Darkness Wave: A Dark Knight is able to infuse their weapon with some of their own life-force to emit a deadly wave of Negative energy. Darkness Wave takes the form of a cone that deals 1d10 points of damage to all enemies within a range of 20 feet + 5 feet / 2 levels. A successful Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 your Dark Knight level + your Cha modifier) halves the damage. Whenever you use Darkness Wave, you take 1d4 points of damage. Darkness wave's area damage increases by 1d10 and the damage you take increases by 1d4 at each odd Dark Knight level. For example, a 15th level Dark Knight using Darkness wave deals 8d10 damage to enemies in the area and takes 8d3 damage in doing so.

Arcane Resistance: At 2nd level, a Dark Knight gains a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (minimum + 1) on saving throws against spells and spell-like effects.

Weapon Aptitude: Your training with a wide range of weaponry and tactics gives you great skill with particular weapons. You qualify for feats that usually require a minimum number of fighter levels (such as Weapon Specialization) as if you had a fighter level equal to your Dark Knight level -2. For example, as a 6th-level Dark Knight you could take Weapon Specialization, since you're treated as being a 4th-level fighter for this purpose. These effective fighter levels stack with any actual fighter levels you have. Thus, a fighter 2/Dark Knight 4 would also qualify for Weapon Specialization.

Dark Blessing :
At 2nd level, a Dark Knight gains a bonus equal to her Wisdom bonus (if any) on all saving throws, up to a maximum of her class level.

Aura of Fear: Beginning at 3rd level, you area immune to fear (magical or otherwise). Each enemy within 5 feet of you must succeed on a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 your Dark Knight level + your Cha modifier) or become shaken. A creature who successfully saves cannot be affected by your fear aura for 24 hours. At 6th level and every three levels thereafter, your aura of fear's radius increases by 5 feet to a max of 30 feet at 18th level. This ability functions while you are conscious, but not while unconscious or dead.

Bonus feats: When the Dark Knight reaches 3rd level, she gains a single combat-oriented feat. She gains an additional feat every third level thereafter (6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, 18th, and so fourth). These feats are gained as a fighter, and must be taken from the feats noted as fighter bonus feats. The Dark Knight must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including ability score and base attack bonus minimums.

Dark Aura: When the Dark Knight reaches his 4th level, he gains the ability to maintain a 5ft radius aura of negative energy. All creatures in this area must make a fortitude save (DC 10 + Cha mod + Half Dark Knight level) to resist taking 1d4 + Half Dark Knight's level of damage every round. Those who successfully make their fortitude save are immune to that Dark Knights Negative Aura for 24 hours and thus do not have to make another save until then. Undead are healed instead of damaged by this aura. The Dark Knight may turn this aura either on or off as a free action. The area affected by this aura is increased by 5ft every 4th level (8th, 12th, 16th and 20th).

Darkvision: At 4th level, A Dark Knight gains darkvision out to 30 feet. At 11th level, this increases to 60 feet.

Mettle: At 5th level and higher, a Dark Knight can resist magical and unusual attacks with great willpower or fortitude. If she makes a successful Will or Fortitude save against an attack that normally would have a lesser effect on a successful save (such as any spell with a saving throw entry of Will half or Fortitude partial), she instead completely negates the effect. An unconscious or sleeping Dark Knight does not gain the benefit of mettle.

Dark Resistance: Upon reaching level 5, the Dark Knight gains resistance against the effects of negative energy. At level 5, the negative energy resistance is 5, increasing by 5 every 5th (10th, 15th and 20th). The resistance protects the Dark Knight against damage received from Inflict wounds and other spells of similar effects.

Second Wind: As a move equivalent action a dark knights of 5th level and higher gain the ability to restore a number of hit points equal to their dark knight level + their Constitution modifier once per day and one additional time per day at 10th level and every 5 levels thereafter. This does not provoke an attack of opportunity.

Infernal Toughness: Beginning at 8th level, a Dark Knight gain bonus hit points equal to her Cha modifier x her Dark Knight level.

Poisonproof: Dark knights of 13th level become immune to all poisons.

Diseaseproof: Dark knights of 14th level become immune to all diseases, including supernatural and magical.

Battle Mastery: Dark Knight's notice the most subtle openings and cues offered by their opponents. At 16th level, a Dark Knight gain an insight bonus equal to her Wisdom bonus on melee attack rolls and melee damage rolls made whenever she make an attack of opportunity.

True Darkvision: At 19th level, Dark Knights can see perfectly in darkness of any kind, even that created by a deeper darkness spell.

In Consideration:

Last Resort:
At level 20 a Dark Knight may perform a reckless but deadly attack. For one round a Dark Knight may Reduce her Armor Class by 15 (to a minimum of 10) to triple the ammount of damage of all her attacks deal this round. The Armor class reduction last until the start of her next turn. This ability is usuable 3 times per encounter.

Rapidghoul
2011-11-30, 08:00 PM
Having just posted and revised my own Dark Knight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223829), I've put a lot of thought into such a class for months and got a lot of feedback for it over the last week or so.
Depending on how much you want to stick with Cecil from FFIV or just explore the concept of the flavor, there's stuff you'll probably leave out (like the Fiendish abilities), but there's a lot of stuff there to consider.

Steward
2011-11-30, 08:41 PM
The negative aura ability sounds interesting, but I'm having trouble understanding what it does. I think you're saying that (living) beings subjected to its power take 1d4 + the Dark Knight's character level in damage, but is this once or every round? If the latter, do they get to make the check each time they're about to take the damage?

Mando Knight
2011-12-01, 05:16 PM
Issues...
1.) Darkness should scale with level, and should deal more damage than what was sacrificed.
2.) Weapon Aptitude should come at level 2 or 3 or state that it has a minimum effective Fighter level of 0. Otherwise by RAW a Fighter 4/DK 1 has a Fighter level of 3, insufficient to qualify for Weapon Specialization.
3.) MAD is BAD. As a heavy melee class, you're already looking at Str & Con as your main stats, adding in abilities for both Wis and Cha weakens the class further. If this were a full caster, I'd let it slide, but this isn't even a Martial Adept.
4.) Dead levels. They're bad on any class, but worse on a melee class.
5.) None of this you/he/her business. None of it. Choose a pronoun and stick with it. It's a minor thing, but it looks sloppy... especially when you switch from second to third person and back.
6.) What is up with that Will save progression? It doesn't belong.

Laucorn
2011-12-01, 05:40 PM
Having just posted and revised my own Dark Knight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223829), I've put a lot of thought into such a class for months and got a lot of feedback for it over the last week or so.
Depending on how much you want to stick with Cecil from FFIV or just explore the concept of the flavor, there's stuff you'll probably leave out (like the Fiendish abilities), but there's a lot of stuff there to consider.

Yeah there is I'll probably look over your class design to see if I can get some ideas.


The negative aura ability sounds interesting, but I'm having trouble understanding what it does. I think you're saying that (living) beings subjected to its power take 1d4 + the Dark Knight's character level in damage, but is this once or every round? If the latter, do they get to make the check each time they're about to take the damage?

Basically yes any living person takes damage, and any undead are healed. I'm debating making the fortitude save to make it if you succeed your not affected by it for 24 hours.


Issues...
1.) Darkness should scale with level, and should deal more damage than what was sacrificed.
2.) Weapon Aptitude should come at level 2 or 3 or state that it has a minimum effective Fighter level of 0. Otherwise by RAW a Fighter 4/DK 1 has a Fighter level of 3, insufficient to qualify for Weapon Specialization.
3.) MAD is BAD. As a heavy melee class, you're already looking at Str & Con as your main stats, adding in abilities for both Wis and Cha weakens the class further. If this were a full caster, I'd let it slide, but this isn't even a Martial Adept.
4.) Dead levels. They're bad on any class, but worse on a melee class.
5.) None of this you/he/her business. None of it. Choose a pronoun and stick with it. It's a minor thing, but it looks sloppy... especially when you switch from second to third person and back.
6.) What is up with that Will save progression? It doesn't belong.

How would you recommend Darkness to scale? I agree with your thought on the Weapon Aptitude part. Any suggestions for the dead levels? MAD is a pain at times yes. The Will save progression was the show that strong mind and force a will is required to survive the training for the class.

Rapidghoul
2011-12-01, 06:23 PM
The Will save progression was the show that strong mind and force a will is required to survive the training for the class.

I think the point is that it doesn't follow a regular progression of saves. Strong saves (like the class's Fort save) is level/2 +2, weak saves (like the class's Ref save) is level / 3, but the Will save is a mix of the two and follows no pattern (level / 3 +1 at times, level / 3 +2 or +3 at others, jumping up at random levels). If you want to have the will save reflect a strong mind and force of will, make it match the Fort save.

Laucorn
2011-12-01, 06:36 PM
I think the point is that it doesn't follow a regular progression of saves. Strong saves (like the class's Fort save) is level/2 +2, weak saves (like the class's Ref save) is level / 3, but the Will save is a mix of the two and follows no pattern (level / 3 +1 at times, level / 3 +2 or +3 at others, jumping up at random levels). If you want to have the will save reflect a strong mind and force of will, make it match the Fort save.

I decided to do that :3

Mando Knight
2011-12-01, 06:39 PM
How would you recommend Darkness to scale?
Probably linearly by level. Perhaps it function similar to Power Attack, but rather than removing BAB from the strike, you lose HP. I recommend either a 1:2 or 2:3 HP:Damage ratio.

Any suggestions for the dead levels?Other than spreading out the abilities a little more? Not really. Personally, I'd include more darkness-related abilities, and possibly remove Battle Cunning/Ardor/Skill.
MAD is a pain at times yes.
Designing a class to be MAD is worse.

Laucorn
2011-12-01, 06:46 PM
Probably linearly by level. Perhaps it function similar to Power Attack, but rather than removing BAB from the strike, you lose HP. I recommend either a 1:2 or 2:3 HP:Damage ratio.
Other than spreading out the abilities a little more? Not really. Personally, I'd include more darkness-related abilities, and possibly remove Battle Cunning/Ardor/Skill.
Designing a class to be MAD is worse.

Hmmm I suppose the battle Cunning, Ador, and Skill can go.

Steward
2011-12-02, 12:28 PM
Basically yes any living person takes damage, and any undead are healed. I'm debating making the fortitude save to make it if you succeed your not affected by it for 24 hours.

Okay, but let's say the living person enters the aura and then takes damage. Then he decides to stay in the aura and keep fighting. Does the aura damage him each and every turn (until he passes the save or moves away from it or whatever) or does it only damage him when it's first turned on?

Laucorn
2011-12-03, 06:30 AM
Okay, but let's say the living person enters the aura and then takes damage. Then he decides to stay in the aura and keep fighting. Does the aura damage him each and every turn (until he passes the save or moves away from it or whatever) or does it only damage him when it's first turned on?
Until they make the save.

Mando Knight
2011-12-03, 01:38 PM
Until they make the save.

How frequently? Once a minute? Once an hour? Only when they enter?

zegram 33
2011-12-03, 07:14 PM
for the darkness aura: is it possible to exclude allies from the effects of it?

for mettle: you've left in a reference to it not working if the "hexblade" is unconsious or...yada yada"

Laucorn
2011-12-07, 03:24 PM
How frequently? Once a minute? Once an hour? Only when they enter?

Every Round until they make the save then they are immune to it for 24 hours.


for the darkness aura: is it possible to exclude allies from the effects of it?

I considered that as a possibility but I'm not 100% on that.

Mando Knight
2011-12-07, 05:15 PM
Every Round until they make the save then they are immune to it for 24 hours.

Then put that in the text. It's not clear at all otherwise, and this sort of thing should not be in an FAQ/Q&A section.

Laucorn
2011-12-08, 03:58 PM
Then put that in the text. It's not clear at all otherwise, and this sort of thing should not be in an FAQ/Q&A section.

Q&A Section? o.O I thought this was the Homebrew section.

Steward
2011-12-08, 04:12 PM
Q&A Section? o.O I thought this was the Homebrew section.

I think s/he means that you should put the clarification into the text of the actual class. It's more of a formatting thing -- it's easier to understand classes when the explanations of their abilities work are listed on the character sheet rather than in a separate post written a few days later, so it would be really helpful if you edited the original post with the clarification (if you haven't done that already, of course!)

For example, with the darkness aura, if the affected character has to make the saving throw once every round, you should spell that out in the description of the ability to ensure there aren't any ambiguities (ie -- are you making the save every round, or only taking the damage every round, or both?)

It's a neat ability and I personally would like it either way, but it does make a little bit of a difference how the save works.

Laucorn
2011-12-08, 04:38 PM
I think s/he means that you should put the clarification into the text of the actual class. It's more of a formatting thing -- it's easier to understand classes when the explanations of their abilities work are listed on the character sheet rather than in a separate post written a few days later, so it would be really helpful if you edited the original post with the clarification (if you haven't done that already, of course!)

For example, with the darkness aura, if the affected character has to make the saving throw once every round, you should spell that out in the description of the ability to ensure there aren't any ambiguities (ie -- are you making the save every round, or only taking the damage every round, or both?)

It's a neat ability and I personally would like it either way, but it does make a little bit of a difference how the save works.

Oh ok lol. Also how about the last resort ability?