PDA

View Full Version : Question about the order of the Scribble



rbetieh
2011-12-02, 10:45 AM
I dont know if this was addressed in the prequels, but are the Order of the Scribble, 3.0 Characters or 3.5 Characters? I ask because the world became 3.5 in strip 1 and these guys were around 60 years before....There is no way they could be AD&D characters right?

Edit: for spelling errors, every time I type on my phone this happens...

Kish
2011-12-02, 10:48 AM
An epic-level elven druid, a halfling who suggests "taking a level in paladin"; no, there's no way they could be AD&D characters.

Dr.Epic
2011-12-02, 10:54 AM
Well, in strip 8, Haley made a comment about how her dad was a 1st edition thief. Since the Order of the Scribble is most likely far older, would it out of line to say they quite possibly could even be Chainmail (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chainmail_%28game%29).

FujinAkari
2011-12-02, 11:08 AM
Based on the battle between Xykon and Durokan, it has to be 3.0.

Haley's dad comment was a joke.

Kish
2011-12-02, 11:10 AM
Considering we know a great deal about them, and none of it but the timeframe combined with a couple throwaway jokes makes it at all possible for them to be anything before 3ed?

Yes, yes, it would out of line. For the Order of the Scribble, for Xykon, Redcloak, and Redcloak's brother, for any previously-existing characters except the specific ones with jokes made about them being previous-edition (that is, Ian and the dirt farmers, so far).

Xapi
2011-12-02, 11:12 AM
The 1st edition thief comment was most likely just rule of funny into play.

The Order of the Scribble most likely operated under 3.0, or even 3.5 if you consider the conversion from 3.0 into 3.5 (in Strip #1, no less) part of the things from the first few strips that contradict continuity, from the switch from one-off jokes into an actual plot driven story.

NerfTW
2011-12-02, 12:33 PM
The 3.0 to 3.5 rule change was a joke, just like the "My daddy was a first edition thief" joke. We don't see any indication in Origin of PCs that they're operating under 3.0.

There is no reason to believe that it impacts any of the older character's origins. For instance, Xykon would predate 3.0 and AD&D, meaning he couldn't have been a sorcerer.

In this case, it's not even "Rule of Funny", it's "This would seriously hose the plot worse than switching to 4th edition". V is really the only character with a lasting character trait tied to 3.0 (V's barred schools, chosen so the Order can't teleport), and that can be explained away by any other number of reasons.

rbetieh
2011-12-02, 01:26 PM
The 1st edition thief comment was most likely just rule of funny into play.

The Order of the Scribble most likely operated under 3.0, or even 3.5 if you consider the conversion from 3.0 into 3.5 (in Strip #1, no less) part of the things from the first few strips that contradict continuity, from the switch from one-off jokes into an actual plot driven story.

Well if he ever makes a complaint about not being able to "Backstab" anymore....When did they create Backstab anyways, memory is rather hazy from the earlier versions, since I only played a few games and then switched to Rifts.

Bulldog Psion
2011-12-02, 02:50 PM
Xykon is proof that 3rd edition rules of some flavor have been in effect for over a century, IIRC, so none of the characters in the Order of the Scribble are anything but 3rd edition.

The 1st edition thief thing is a throwaway joke. I mean, if we compile all the throwaway jokes and consider them to be serious depictions of the world, then we need to assume everything from modern American celebrities to cell phones exist somewhere in the OotS world, yet they never appear anywhere except in one-liners.

So it's logical to assume brief one-time references are inserted for humor and nothing more, IMO.

Anarion
2011-12-02, 03:10 PM
Can anyone think of a way to tell apart whether the world was 3.0 vs. 3.5? My 3.0 books are not easily accessible at present, but I'll skim through the PDF from the WotC website and edit this post later if I find anything. Possible areas to check in the meantime

Edit: Nothing obvious from the WotC PDF. Unless someone has the books and wants to check specifics of DR or something, we can basically just rely on the statement from the other prequel book that they're 3.0.

SoD spoilers
Would Lirian attacking Xykon as a silver dragon have interacted with his damage reduction identically in 3.0 and 3.5?

Are any of the major spells cast (e.g. gate, ennervation, prismatic spray) different in 3.5 as compared to 3.0 in a way that we could see them?

Would Right-Eye's positive energy sneak attack dagger have made sense in both 3.0 and 3.5?

grimbold
2011-12-02, 03:15 PM
Well, in strip 8, Haley made a comment about how her dad was a 1st edition thief. Since the Order of the Scribble is most likely far older, would it out of line to say they quite possibly could even be Chainmail (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chainmail_%28game%29).

that
would
be
awesome

and so amazingly classy

i have to support this XD

Bulldog Psion
2011-12-02, 03:17 PM
that
would
be
awesome

and so amazingly classy

i have to support this XD

Um ... you do realize that their classes and so on are totally incompatible with any edition prior to 3rd, including Chainmail, right? :smallconfused:

DrBurr
2011-12-02, 03:31 PM
Um ... you do realize that their classes and so on are totally incompatible with any edition prior to 3rd, including Chainmail, right? :smallconfused:

Actually all their classes have existed since 1st Edition AD&D

Soon Kim is a Fighter sub-class Paladin
Kraagor is a Fighter sub-class Barbarian
Dorukan is a Magic User
Lirian is a Cleric sub-class Druid
Girard is a Magic User sub-class Illusionist

So they could be 1st ed characters, though I doubt they'd be chainmail

Bulldog Psion
2011-12-02, 03:35 PM
Actually all their classes have existed since 1st Edition AD&D

Soon Kim is a Fighter sub-class Paladin
Kraagor is a Fighter sub-class Barbarian
Dorukan is a Magic User
Lirian is a Cleric sub-class Druid
Girard is a Magic User sub-class Illusionist

So they could be 1st ed characters, though I doubt they'd be chainmail

Yes, you're right on this score. However, Xykon's class, IMO, trumps any Scribble considerations anyway, since he was a sorcerer before Soon was born, so far as I can remember.

DrBurr
2011-12-02, 03:39 PM
Yes, you're right on this score. However, Xykon's class, IMO, trumps any Scribble considerations anyway, since he was a sorcerer before Soon was born, so far as I can remember.

Hmm that does screw it up, I'll have to go read a copy of SoD probably to try and explain that

rbetieh
2011-12-02, 03:42 PM
Hmm that does screw it up, I'll have to go read a copy of SoD probably to try and explain that

Future Psychic?

Kish
2011-12-02, 03:55 PM
Hmm that does screw it up, I'll have to go read a copy of SoD probably to try and explain that
While you're at it, explain the bit where, if elves even could be druids in 1ed, they certainly couldn't be epic-level (that is, didn't have unlimited level advancement, since there was no such thing as epic-level in 1ed), even if you find it at all believable that Lirian was True Neutral for most of her career.

Then explain how Serini talking about "taking a level of paladin next" makes any sense at all in a setting where only humans can be paladins and "take a level of X class" is incoherent.

DrBurr
2011-12-02, 04:43 PM
While you're at it, explain the bit where, if elves even could be druids in 1ed, they certainly couldn't be epic-level (that is, didn't have unlimited level advancement, since there was no such thing as epic-level in 1ed), even if you find it at all believable that Lirian was True Neutral for most of her career.

Then explain how Serini talking about "taking a level of paladin next" makes any sense at all in a setting where only humans can be paladins and "take a level of X class" is incoherent.

I never explicitly said I think their 1st ed characters, simply they're classes have been around since then.

But for the sake of it, Lirian being a Druid and being True Neutral or not could be attributed to house ruling this is 1st ed were talking about where almost every DM probably had some character generation house rules, and as we've seen in this comic The Giant does employ new rules for the setting such as Goblins being Medium sized.

This could be applicable to Serini as well, as the oots world could drop race requirements for multi-classing.

This is of course all speculation, and probably all wrong and as you've pointed out illogical, the simplest explanation is the "My Father was a 1st ed Thief" is simply a joke from before the major plot developed and has been orphaned by a change in continuity.

Dr.Epic
2011-12-02, 06:53 PM
Based on the battle between Xykon and Durokan, it has to be 3.0.

Haley's dad comment was a joke.

The Order of the Stick was originally 3.0 (first comic) so converting to later systems is totally possible. It really isn't that difficult to believe Haley's dad could have been first edition. The Scribble would then just have to convert to later systems. Also, Xykon/Dorukan battle happened a long time after they stopped adventuring and the Scribble was no more.

Chronos
2011-12-02, 07:22 PM
There's a spot in one of the prequel books where someone tries to do something 3.5, only to be reminded "Psst, this is a prequel, we're still in 3.0". I'll see if I can dig it up.

And not only is it possible for characters to convert from one edition to another, I don't even think that the entire world necessarily converted at the same time, or that a conversion can really be placed in a timeline.

Kish
2011-12-02, 07:27 PM
There's a spot in one of the prequel books where someone tries to do something 3.5, only to be reminded "Psst, this is a prequel, we're still in 3.0". I'll see if I can dig it up.
On the Origins of PCs. Roy is surprised that Durkon, despite being a dwarf, is slowed by heavy armor.

Gift Jeraff
2011-12-02, 08:34 PM
Also, Roy says Eugene barred divination, which is impossible in 3.5 but I think is fine in 3.0. Though that could have been an oversight (and certainly not true in the present, seeing how Eugene having divination was a plot point twice).

Though going by the 4E chapter of SSaDT, isn't it possible every OOTS character was every edition, since the revised editions retroactively affect the past as well (referring to campaign settings with established histories getting updated, I presume)?

rbetieh
2011-12-03, 12:09 AM
I think the fact that the world actually has 2e monsters (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0074.html) points to the Scribble being possibly of Any edition.

Bulldog Psion
2011-12-03, 10:40 AM
I think the fact that the world actually has 2e monsters (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0074.html) points to the Scribble being possibly of Any edition.

... except that, as Kish very accurately pointed out above, their race/class combinations are possible only in some variation of 3rd.

RecklessFable
2011-12-03, 11:00 AM
There is precedent in this world (printed material) that players can play different editions simultaneously.

So Rule of Funny or Edition isn't time-in-story specific. Either way, analysis at this level is not really relevant to the story anymore since Rich decided not to update to 4th.

Even though I say that my inner geek still wants there to be a specific timeline in the universe for this... must... let ... it... go....

Bulldog Psion
2011-12-03, 11:07 AM
Perhaps in the OotS world, "1st edition" has come to be an idiom that means "old-fashioned, traditional" rather than just referring to the edition itself. :smallsmile:

"Ah, there's nothing like a good, 1st edition home-cooked meal." :smallwink:

mrmcfatty
2011-12-03, 01:02 PM
Perhaps in the OotS world, "1st edition" has come to be an idiom that means "old-fashioned, traditional" rather than just referring to the edition itself. :smallsmile:

"Ah, there's nothing like a good, 1st edition home-cooked meal." :smallwink:

i would agree with this because the real life version of that saying is usually something along the lines of "my grandfather was a first generation chef" the person saying it being the 3rd generation.

its similar with haley, although this would imply she is only 2nd edition but we can let that pass since it was a throwaway joke.