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bobthe6th
2011-12-06, 09:43 PM
Class:

The version in progress is here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12861479&postcount=146) extras can be found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12861520&postcount=147).

Special thanks to VEKLIM and DerTollUdo for editing and content creation. It was a lot messier and barren before.

The Telekineticist.

When a psion begins manifesting their power for the first time, they often discover their powers in telekinesis. The sudden movement of objects, flying crockery, stacking chairs and juggling balls are all commonplace events when a young psion is learning. Most grow out of this phase, finding other, more dramatic, specific or subtle uses for their talents. However, a few never move past the telekinetic, finding that the more they practice, the more control and precision they gain on the world around them. Over time their mastery of movement becomes legendary, and many a story has been told of various members of this class. These rare individuals are known as The Telekineticists.

Characteristics: The Telekineticist relies on its mind to use his powers. This can range from throwing a mass at a foe, throwing a foe, fighting with a weapon held with his mind, even to full power flight!

Alignment: The power of The Telekineticist favors no alignment above others.

Religion: The Telekineticist favors gods of battle and psionics.

Races: Humans are drawn to this class like any other. Small races enjoy this class, as it lets them use brains instead of brawn. Any mining race tends to have many Telekineticists since they aid in the mining process. All psionic races tend to favor this class.

Other Classes: Martial classes tend to dislike The Telekineticist, as they seem too magical to be true martial. Magical classes enjoy The Telekineticist, as they seem to merely be imitating their own power.

Role: Can take on the role of utility or perhaps stealth. But this class shines as a battle field controller. With numerous abilities for punishing foes unwilling to move as he wishes, and the ability to physically move foes into a formation of his choice, he can add some useful utility outside of combat while performing numerous tasks at a distance.

Game Rule Information:
Abilities:Charisma is the strength of The Telekineticist. Constitution helps them stay alive while increasing maximum Hands. Wisdom allows them to maintain effects longer.

Alignment: Any

Hit Die: d6

The Telekineticist
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

1st|+1|+0|+0|+2| Telekinetic Hands, Mental Strength, Force Burst, Force Fling, Wild Talent

2nd|+2|+0|+0|+3| Telekinetic Fighting: Least

3rd|+3|+1|+1|+3|Telekinetic Reach, Trapfinding

4th|+4|+1|+1|+4| Far Trick

5th|+5|+1|+1|+4| Martial Skill, Mind's Eye

6th|+6/+1|+2|+2|+5| Telekinetic Fighting: Lesser, Far Trick

7th|+7/+2|+2|+2|+5| Telekinetic Flight

8th|+8/+3|+2|+2|+6| Far Trick

9th|+9/+4|+3|+3|+6| Martial Skill, Focused Shield

10th|+10/+5|+3|+3|+7| Telekinetic Flight: Improved, Mind's Eye, Far Trick

11th|+11/+6/+1|+3|+3|+7| Telekinetic Fighting: Improved, Critical Thinking

12th|+12/+7/+2|+4|+4|+8| Ghostly Hands

13th|+13/+8/+3|+4|+4|+8| Telekinetic Flight: Greater, Lockdown

14th|+14/+9/+4|+4|+4|+9| Martial Skill

15th|+15/+10/+5|+5|+5|+9| Disrupting Throw, Mind's Eye

16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+5|+5|+10| Telekinetic Fighting: Greater, Lockdown

17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+5|+5|+10| Ghostly Hands

18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+6|+6|+11| Critical Thinking

19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+6|+6|+11| Martial Skill, Singularity

20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+6|+6|+12| Master Of The Far Hand, Mind's Eye
[/table]

Class Skills

The Telekineticist's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are; Auto Hypnosis(Con), Balance(Dex), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Escape artist(Dex), Hide(Dex), Knowledge (Psionics)(Int), Open Lock(Dex), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Search (Int), Slight of hand(Dex), Spot(Wis), Use Psionic Device(Cha), Use Rope(Dex), and Psicraft (Int).

Skill Points at First Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

Proficiencies: A Telekineticist is proficient with all Simple weapons and one martial melee weapon of their choice. They are also proficient with light and medium armor, and all shields.

Telekinetic Hands(SU): As he walks through the land, he raises not his own hands. For as he wills it, so it shall move. With but a thought, he sends enemies into chaos and allies into order. All with the power of his Telekinetic Hands.

The Telekineticist has limited capability with his power. This capability is known as Telekinetic Hands, or just Hands. These Hands are useable at will. The Telekineticist has a number of Hands equal to 1 + 1/3 class levels + your Constitution modifier. These Hands have a range equal to 10ft/ class level and may only be used if you have line of sight. These Hands are not Force effects. The only class ability which is a Force effect is Force Burst. Things normally immune to Telekinesis are not immune to the abilities of this class.

Upon using any of the abilities of this class that require Hands, every Telekineticist has a display. This display is unique to every Telekineticist. The display can be just about anything visual. Some Examples are: glowing eyes, vibrating waves of energy from yourself, visual Hands, or anything else the player and DM agree upon. These can be identified as psionic displays with an appropriate Knowledge: Psionics check (DC up to DM)

The Hand dependent abilities require you to be conscious to maintain. Therefore, if the Telekineticist falls unconscious all their Hand dependent abilities end.

If an ability that uses Hands requires a save, it has a DC of 10 + 1/2 class levels + charisma modifier. If they require a physical ability score (such as an opposed strength checks for a trip attempt), use the Charisma modifier instead. You may invest additional Hands in any such ability check to gain a +2/Hand bonus to the roll. To use his Hands he must be psionically focused, although he does not expend his focus by doing so.

Any hand which is used for a non-sustained ability is considered used until the start of your next turn, and any hand used for a sustained ability is considered used until the ability is released.

Whenever you use an ability that requires your Hands, you may opt to combine it with another ability that requires your Hands with the same action cost (i.e. move, standard, etc) If you do so they must be different abilities and not the same one multiple times. Each additional ability adds a -4 penalty for all rolls you make for the combined abilities.

Mental Strength(SU): As others talk about lifting mountains, he will instead ask where they want it to end up. As others wonder how to how to write a message in the dirt across the field, he only asks what they want it to say.

The Telekineticist can move an object with his mind or perform some act of manual dexterity at any distance within the range of his Hands at will as a move action.

Objects weighing up to 25lb/level/Hand may be maintained without limit. May be moved at a rate of 40' or your fastest natural speed, whichever is faster per action.
Objects weighing up to 50lb/level/Hand as a heavy load may be moved normally at a rate of 30' per action
Objects weighing up to 100lb/level/Hand may be moved normally at a rate of 20' per action
Objects weighing up to 250lb/level/Hand may be pushed or dragged along the ground at a rate of 10' per action.
You may add additional Hands to increase the speed by 10' per Hand, this may not increase the speed past your fastest natural speed.

These movements are smooth and the pressure is uniform over the object unless you desire otherwise. These movements are not limited in direction, but do have a limited duration. The Telekineticist can only maintain pressure for up to wisdom modifier rounds for anything weighing more than 25lbs/level/Hand, after that the object drops to the ground and the Telekineticist is fatigued for 1d4 rounds. You may not initiate this ability if you are fatigued. If you cease pressure, and do not use any ability requiring Telekinetic Hands for a full round, the duration you may keep this up is reset.

Creatures may be moved in this way, but they get a will save to negate the effects each round. Any movement from this ability provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. The Telekineticist may not use this ability on himself.

The Telekineticist can also perform a feat of manual dexterity anywhere within the maximum range of his Hands. This manipulation is limited by the number of hands used. If you wish to do something which would require two physical hands to achieve (like tie a knot in some rope), then you must use at least 2 hands. No additional effect is had by using more Hands than necessary for any given action.

Force Burst(SU): As his limbs started exploding, they wondered why he just sat there. Then he started cackling. And finally he just fell over before his head exploded...

You focus you telekinetic ability in an attempt to rip the target apart from the inside. At will as a standard action that requires 1 Hand at least, you may make a ranged touch attack to one target with a blast that deals 1d6+1/level. You may invest more Hands to add 1d6/Hand up to your max level in the class. You may split up the blast across multiple targets. Each additional target takes the same damage as the first, however each target also imposes a cumulative -2 penalty on the to hit roll.

The target must succeed on a fortitude save when hit or suffer one of the following Rider effects for 1D4 rounds. You begin play knowing only one rider effect (sickened), but gain access to other effects at the indicated levels, and may choose freely between any riders you know with each use of Force Burst. You may only have one rider per use of this ability. This ability only functions within the range of your Hands. This ability effects undead and other creatures normally immune to fortitude saves, although the riders may not have any effect.

Riders:
{table=head] Level | Rider Effect
1 | Target is Sickened
5 | Target is Confused
10 | Target is Nauseated
15 | Target is Stunned
20 | Target is Paralyzed
[/table]

This is a force effect and requires line of effect.

Force Fling: The first sign of the wandering Telekineticist would have been the tree, upside down in the keep's main tower. Then of course there were the cows...OK, what was left of the cows, all over the town square. Though, the thing that really stuck in the minds of Griftshire's people was the day the prince crash landed, upside down, and slightly exploded, on the pulpit halfway through the holyday sermon. As it turns out, Telekineticists aren't always subtle.


At will as a standard action, the Telekineticist can launch an object within the range of his Hands. Each object may weigh no more than 25lb/level +25lbs/Hand invested up to your Telekineticist level, and requires the use of at least a single Hand. The object travels up to 10ft/level and this movement may take it outside of the Hands range.

The Telekineticist makes a single standard ranged attack. The object deals bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage (DM's choice) depending on it's weight up to 1d6/25lb (minimum 1d6). Regardless of the item launched, you do not take a non-proficiency penalty for this attack. Weapons launched with this power deal damage according to their weight unless you are proficient with them, at which point you may deal normal weapon damage (and damage type) instead of damage by weight. The critical threat for objects used this way is 20/x2. Any enchantments or abilities the weapon/s may have are applied as long as you are proficient with it. The keen enchantment, or any similar ability involving critical threat ranges does not apply. A flaming burst weapon would always consider it's threat range as 20/x2.

If holding an item with Mental Strength that could be used for this ability, you may use the Hand holding it in the Force Fling, and maintain your hold on the item after the fling so long as it is still in the range of your Hands.

Additionally you may use this ability to destroy objects. Starting at level 5, instead of flinging the object you may focus your power inwards. This causes the object to suffer the effects of a Shatter spell except as noted here: The save DC is 10+1/2 lvl+cha mod, and you may affect any composition of material.

Wild Talent: His powers weren't born from years of study; his powers were born from his wild imagination.

You gain the feat Wild Talent as a bonus feat.

Telekinetic Fighting(SU): "You say you need an army to guard your gates? No need. Show me your armory, and I will hold your front door." ~A Telekineticist to the castle guard.

Least:
At 2nd level The Telekineticist may use Hands to wield weapons he is proficient with and fight within the range of his Hands. Any weapon wielded in this fashion may be moved up to 30ft in a round as a free action. Only weapons wielded within 5' of your self qualify as being wielded by you for purposes of feats or class abilities that effect them.

At will as a standard action, you may make a single melee attack with one such weapon, using Charisma instead of Strength for the to hit and damage rolls. You only threaten squares within your physical reach, if the weapon is beyond this range it does not threaten on it's own. A one-handed or smaller weapon requires one Hand and a two-handed weapon requires two Hands to use. Any weapon(s) held by your Hands may have additional Hands added to it, each increasing the damage by 1/2 charisma modifier.

The Telekineticist suffers -1 to hit for every 10ft increment between the weapon and The Telekineticist, and a -1 to damage for every 20ft increment between the weapon and The Telekineticist, to a maximum of the range of his Hands. He may maintain this effect for a number of rounds equal to his constitution score per encounter.

Lesser:
At 6th level at will you may make a full attack with the weapon(s) you are wielding with Telekinetic Fighting. You may not make more attacks than you could without your Telekinetic Hands, but you may spread your iterative attacks between weapons at no penalty, although the range penalty still applies. You may now hold a light or heavy shield with one Hand or a tower shield in two Hands. Such a shield may occupy any square including your own or those of your allies (but not an enemy's) and confers on anyone in that square the shield's AC bonus as a shield bonus to their own AC, and multiple shields do not stack.

Improved:
At level 11 at will as a standard action you may attack once with each weapon wielded by your Telekinetic Fighting. This is done with a single attack roll at your highest attack bonus, but takes a penalty to hit equal to -2 for each weapon after the first.
You may wield a weapon of a larger size category than you normally could for your size. For every size category larger than normal, the weapon requires an additional Hand to wield, these Hands do not add extra damage, but you may add further Hands to do so.

The duration you may maintain this effect is removed.

Greater:
At 16th level you no longer take the distance penalties for the distance between you and your weapon, but you are still limited to the range of your Hands. Also, at will as a fullround action, you may attack with each weapon you hold with Hands up to the number of attacks granted from you BAB for each weapon plus any extra attacks granted from feats or weapon enchantments that apply to fighting with one weapon. These attacks all suffer a cumulative penalty of -2 for each weapon after the first. This means that feats such as Two Weapon Fighting or Multi Weapon Fighting would not apply, but the Speed enchantment and similar effects would.

Telekinetic Reach(SU): "It's just a floating sword! It can't be that dangerous...right?" ~Captain Reokus' last coherent words

At third level, you may chose to have any weapon you are wielding with your Telekinetic Fighting threaten adjacent squares as normal for a weapon of it's type. This ability is useable at will as a free action. If the weapon has the reach quality then calculate accordingly.

Trapfinding(EX): "The thing with traps is this: if you stand near them, they might kill you. Best to do it with a bit of distance between you and it." ~A Telekineticist

You can use the Search skill to locate traps when the task has a Difficulty Class higher than 20.

Finding a nonmagical trap has a DC of at least 20, or higher if it is well hidden. Finding a magic trap has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it.

You can use the Disable Device skill to disarm magic traps. A magic trap generally has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it.
If you beat a trap’s DC by 10 or more with a Disable Device check you can study a trap, figure out how it works, and bypass it (with your party) without disarming it.

Far Trick(SU): "Not very long ago, you thought that because you tied me up and surrounded me with guards I was no longer a threat. Would you care to re-assess?" ~A Telekineticist after disarming and grappling his captors from a chair in the corner of the room.

Starting at 4th lvl when your powers start to mature, you gain the ability to use specific types of combat tricks at will as a standard action within the range of your Hands. These work as normal except Charisma is used instead of any physical score, and your size bonus (or penalty) does not apply to these checks. These abilities do not provoke Attacks of Opportunity and enemies don't get to add their size bonus (or penalty) to the modifier. On a failed attempt, the target doesn't get the reactive attempt to use it back on you. This ability is useable at will and requires a standard action and 1 Hand to use (in the case of multiple targets, you require 1 Hand/target, with a -2 penalty to all rolls for each trick after the first).

Each trick initially receives a penalty of -1/10ft away from the target you are. Each trick requires one hand to activate.

At 4th level you may attempt to break down a door or bullrush an opponent.

At 6th level you may attempt disarm attempts against foes. If you desire you may catch the item, if you won, in the Hand used for this maneuver as part of the action. The penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/20ft.

At 8th level you may attempt trip attempts against foes. The penalty for disarming is reduced to -1/20ft, and the penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/40ft.

At 10th level you may attempt to grapple foes. You do not suffer the negative effects of grappling someone when using this ability. The penalty for tripping is reduced to -1/20ft, the penalty for disarming is reduced to -1/40ft, and the penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/80ft.

Minds Eye(SU): "Come out, come out, wherever you are...no seriously, I can see all of you...why are you all looking at me like that?" ~ A Telekineticist as he walks through a town of invisible ninjas.

At 5th level, at will as a full round action you may gain Touchsight out to half the range of your Hands until the end of your next turn by using 1 Hand.

At 10th level this increases to the full range of your Hands.

At 15th level you may maintain this ability indefinitely with one hand.

At 20th level this ability no longer requires a Hand to maintain and is always active (even when you are not psionically focused).

Martial Skill (EX): "Do you know how easy it is to train with a weapon when your body doesn't get in the way? No? Wouldn't have thought so..." ~A Telekineticist discussing his satchel of unusual weaponry with an incredulous guardsman.

You may not be a fighter, but you understand weapons of war.

At 5th level you gain two additional martial weapon proficiencies of your choice.

At 9th level you gain two more additional martial weapon proficiencies of your choice.

At 14th level you gain one additional martial weapon proficiency and one additional exotic weapon proficiency of your choice.

At 19th level you gain two additional exotic weapon proficiencies of your choice.

Telekinetic Flight(SU): At first they feared his power, then they felt his power, but never did they see him because they forgot to look up.

At 7th level, you have finally mastered moving yourself using your Hands. At will as a move action, you may initiate Telekinetic Flight .One Hand is required to initiate and sustain flight. If you reach the duration of the ability, you immediately descend directly downwards at a rate equal to the fly speed (taking falling damage if you fail to reach solid ground in this distance) and become fatigued for 1d4 rounds. You may not initiate this ability if you are fatigued. If you cease flying, and do not use any ability requiring Telekinetic Hands for a full round, the duration you may keep this up is reset.

At 7th level, you may fly at a speed of 30ft with perfect maneuverability for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom modifier. You may keep this flight up indefinitely by using three hands.

At 11th level, your fly speed increases to 40ft and you may stay aloft for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom score. You only need two Hands to keep this up indefinitely.

At 13th level, your fly speed increases to 60ft and may be sustained indefinitely with only one Hand.

Focused Shield(SU): "You know what's fun? A good fight. You know what isn't fun? An unfair fight. Let's just fix this real quick...and there we go. Now this is fun." ~A Telekineticist as he separates the enemy into smaller groups.

At 9th level you may create a 10'x10' barrier with your Hands at will as a move action. Maintaining this barrier requires a move action. You may create and maintain multiple shields in the same action, as long as you have the Hands to do so. They are transparent yet not invisible, or even hard to see. They appear as a continuous ripple in the affected areas. They do block Line of Effect, but not Line of Sight.

Each shield requires 1 Hand to activate and maintain, but may be augmented as described below. Any unattended objects or projectiles are instantly stopped and cannot pass through. There is no limit to the amount of material the barrier can support. Spells cannot pass through the barrier unless they do not require Line of Effect, and those which require an attack roll simply end at the barrier.

If a creature attempts to pass through, it suffers an immediate bullrush effect upon contact with the barrier, as if the barrier were a gargantuan creature (+12 size bonus) with a Strength score equal to your Charisma score. The barrier does not make an attack roll to make this bullrush, it just happens. If the barrier wins the opposed check, the creature is pushed out of the wall in the direction it attempted to enter from. The wall cannot push the creature farther than 5ft from its edges (as the wall does not move with the creature). If the creature wins, it forces it's way through the barrier, causing it to disperse.

You may form the barrier over a creature, in which case it is effected as though it had tried to pass though the wall (The creature is pushed towards the closest edge of the wall, or whatever direction is not facing you in case of a tie). If the creature is pushed/thrown into the wall, use the bullrush check of the creature/force that pushed them into the wall instead of the creature's if it is higher.

You cannot form multiple barriers in the same square or in any square occupied by Lockdown or Singularity.

Any creature that attempts to pass through the barrier and fails takes force damage equal to 1D6 +1/ class level. The barrier is a 10ft x 10ft pane, positioned as you please within Telekinesis range. You may create and maintain multiple barriers at once, and any number of barriers may be set as part of the same move action so long as you have enough hands free to create them. You may dismiss these shields as a non action.

You may augment this ability by investing additional hands, as described below:

You may increase the force with which the wall pushes creatures away. Each additional hand invested in this way increases the damage by 1d6 and adds an additional +2 bonus to its bullrush check. If this more powerful wall succeeds on a bullrush check by 10 or more the creature is knocked prone, and if it succeeds by 20 or more the creature is stunned for 1 round unless it makes a fort save (DC 10 + 1/2 class level + your charisma modifier).

You may invest 1 additional Hand to shape the Shield. All parts must be touching, but the barrier can otherwise take any shape you desire.

You may invest additional Hands to increase the size of the shield at a rate of 5'x5' per Hand. Thus with 1 extra Hand it is a 15'x15' pane, with 2 it becomes 20'x20' and so on.

Critical Thinking(EX): "You know, I used to just fling weapons. Then I realized that if I can fling it just right, I can stab you in the face, while I slice open your stomach. Won't this be fun?" ~A Telekineticist as he gets a critical strike on his enemy.

Starting at 11th level, you have learned how to wield a weapon in the most dangerous fashion.

At level 11 weapons with which you are proficient used in Force Fling get their normal critical threat range.

At level 18 all objects wielded with Telekinetic Hands get their normal threat range and are treated as though you had Improved Critical. You do not actually gain the feat, and it does not count for prerequisites. This ability stacks in the same way as the feat.

Ghostly Hands(EX): Some people fear ghosts and other creatures that are not tangible. The Telekineticist chooses instead to reach out for them. To hold onto them. To interact with them.

At 12th level, your abilities become capable of affecting incorporeal objects and creatures. Objects thrown using Force Fling must be incorporeal to do so, but weapons wielded using Telekinetic Fighting are treated as being both corporeal and incorporeal from now on. Your Focused Shields now affect incorporeal creatures.

At 17th level all your abilities can affect creatures and objects from any coterminous planes.

Lockdown (SU): "What, you think those guys are gonna get here? Why would we let that happen?" ~A Telekineticist as he stops a marching army.

At level 13 you learn how to use you Hands to manipulate the molecules within an area. At will as a standard action you may create a sphere of dense air by using 1 Hand. The sphere is 5' in radius and may be placed anywhere within the range of your Hands. You may dismiss the field as a non action.

Thrown weapons cannot be used within the sphere, even when launched from outside. Ranged attacks with all other weapons or ranged spells take a -2 penalty on attack rolls for every 5' they travel through this effect, in addition to their normal penalties for range.

Melee attacks take a -2 penalty to hit, and in addition Bludgeoning and Slashing attacks deal half damage, and Bludgeoning damage becomes exclusively nonlethal within the field (as if the weapon were Merciful). Melee Piercing weapons take a penalty to damage equal to the penalty to hit. Weapons which deal more than one type of damage at a time like a morningstar are considered whichever type would be least beneficial (so that morningstar would be considered Bludgeoning for this purpose, even though it also does Piercing damage under normal conditions).

Creatures within the area of the Lockdown must make a Fort save if they wish to move. If they pass they may move up to 1/2 of their speed. If they fail by 4 or less, they may only move up to 1/4 of their move speed. Failure by 5 or more means the attempt to move fails and the action is wasted.

You may augment Lockdown with additional Hands in one or more of the ways detailed below:

Increase the radius of your Lockdown by 5'/Hand
Increase all penalties to hit (melee, ranged, and spells) by 2/Hand
Increase the save DC by 1/Hand
Any Hand invested this way only gives a bonus for the chosen area (i.e. if you want to increase the penalty by 4 and increase the DC by 4, you would need to invest 6 additional Hands)

You cannot form multiple Lockdowns in the same square or in any square occupied by Focused Shield or Singularity. A Freedom of Movement effect removes the melee attack penalties and movement penalty.

At level 16 you may make any area that you Lockdown so dense that it blocks Line of Effect (as if it were solid), but not Line of Sight. As well as also stopping extradimensional travel. Forms of movement barred include but are not limited to astral projection, blink, dimension door, ethereal jaunt, etherealness, gate, maze, plane shift, shadow walk, teleport, and similar abilities/spells/powers. Once Lockdown is in place, extradimensional travel into or out of the area is not possible.

A Lockdown does not interfere with the movement of creatures already in ethereal or astral form when the spell is cast, nor does it block extradimensional perception or attack forms. Also, the spell does not prevent summoned creatures from disappearing at the end of a summoning spell.

A Freedom of Movement effect has no effect on this blocking Line of Effect or stopping extradimensional travel, but still removes the movement and attack penalties.

Disrupting Throw(SU): They thought that just because they weren't close, and he wasn't holding a weapon that they would be safe...they were so very, very wrong.

At 15th level, at will as an immediate action, you may attempt an attack of opportunity against any opponent up to 5ft/class level away. They must have just taken an action which would provoke an attack of opportunity were you adjacent to them, but you need not be threatening the opponent. You may use your Force Burst, Force Fling, or any of your Far Tricks. This counts towards your attacks of opportunity for the round.

Singularity(SU): "They say that when something gets very dense at a very small point, it gets really hard to move away from there...Let's just see if that's the truth, shall we?" ~A Telekineticist as he pulls a fleeing group into the sphere.

At will as a standard action, you may use one Hand to create a Singularity point anywhere within your TK range. The Singularity may effect any number of creatures (not objects, although undead are susceptible) within 30' of it's center point, even if this would go beyond your TK range. Each target creature must be hit with a ranged touch attack from an unoccupied Hand, whereupon they must succeed a Fortitude save or be affected by the Singularity point. To target a creature it must weigh no more than 50lbs/level. You may use additional hands to increase the save DC and maximum weight for a target, each additional Hand yields +2 DC and +50lbs/level. You may dismiss Singularity as a free action.

The Singularity may be used in one of two ways, attraction or repulsion, but not both ways at once (these are detailed separately below). Regardless of which way this is used, any creature killed by damage from a Singularity is instantly reduced to a fine paste which can only be brought back to life by a True Resurrection, miracle, wish, or other similar effect. Any equipment carried by a destroyed target is unharmed. When a target gets destroyed by a Singularity, any Hands invested in that specific target become immediately available to the Telekineticist to invest or use.

Under attraction, all affected creatures are drawn towards the Singularity, where they collide with each other and are held. Upon collision, all targets take bludgeoning damage equal to 2d6/10' each target traveled put together (for example, there are 3 targets. Target A travels 20', target B travels 10' and target C travels 30'. Upon collision at the center they each take 12d6 bludgeoning damage).

Every round at the start of their turn, affected creatures get a new Fortitude save to escape the effect. Until they succeed on a saving throw to break free any creature caught in a Singularity is only able to take purely mental actions. The save DC increases by +2 for every other target caught in the singularity (so if four creatures were caught inside, the DC would be at +6). For every round they fail this save, the target will take 5d6 crushing damage as the force holding them applies pressure. You may invest more Hands in the Singularity, to increase the damage they take by an additional 5d6/Hand.



Under repulsion, all affected creatures are thrown away from the Singularity instead. A repulsed creature is thrown 30' directly away from the Singularity and takes 5d6 damage. If nothing obstructs this movement, the creature is left prone outside the area of the Singularity and may not reenter by any means until the end of the Singularity effect (though they may still fire ranged weapons and spells into and through the effect). However, if an object like a wall or pillar obstructs this movement, they take an additional 2d6 damage for every 10' they failed to travel, and are crushed as if under attraction instead of repulsion until the end of the effect. You may invest more Hands in the Singularity to increase the distance thrown and damage inflicted by repulsion, for each additional Hand so invested you gain +10' distance thrown and +5d6 damage.

You cannot form multiple Singularities in the same square or in any square occupied by Lockdown or Focused Shield.

Master Of The Far Hand(EX): He now stands tall, his powers matured. Everything is his plaything, and the world his playground.

At 20th level, you have reached the pinnacle of your mental power. Reality becomes an illusion which you can bend like putty, and many of your abilities are enhanced as follows:

All your at will class abilities gained from this class are now considered Extraordinary.

Your Disrupting Throw becomes a free action, still taking up an attack of opportunity per use. It may also be used anywhere within your Telekinesis range.

Your flight speed increases to 120ft.

You no longer take range penalties to your Far Tricks.

Weapons wielded by you for your Telekinetic Fighting can now move up to 60' instead of 30'. In addition, you may now add 2x Cha mod to damage rolls as opposed just 1x Cha mod. Extra Hands invested in dmg for weapons now add 1x Cha mod as opposed to .5x Cha mod.

Your Focused Shields are now stable enough that if someone manages to force their way through them they are no longer dispersed and they take the damage whether they make it through the shield or not.

Your Lockdown can now stop magic before it begins. With this, any area you Lockdown prevents all spells and spell-like abilities from being cast from within and suppresses effects granted from spells and spell-like abilities that are already cast. Spells may still be cast into the sphere, as long as they don't require Line of Effect. This also effects spells from items, but the items themselves function normally.

For example:
A spell/spell-like ability grants you Freedom of Movement. When you enter the field, that effect is suppressed and any attempt to recast it fails.
You wear a ring of Freedom of Movement. Upon entering the field the ring functions as normal and you continue to benefit from it.
You have an item with the the ability to cast spells, like a wand or scroll. When you enter the field, any attempt to cast these spells fails and any that are already active are suppressed.

The Telekinetic Hands gained through class levels in this class and feats is doubled. This applies to those already gained, gained this level, and any gained in the future, unless they state otherwise.


ACFs:

Pure Telekineticist.

Replaces: d6 Hit Die, Martial Skill, Telekinetic Fighting, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Telekinetic Reach, and Critical Thinking.

Benefit:Hit die becomes d4, and the number of Hands you have is increased to 1 Hand/Class Level + your Con mod. The range of your telekinesis increases to 20ft/level. The range of your Disrupting Throw becomes 10ft/class level.


Unarmed Telekineticist

Replaces: Martial Skill, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Medium Armor Proficiency, ability to wield weapons not generated by this ACF with Telekinetic Fighting.

Benefit: You may generate weapons with your Hands which may be used as normal, but they are the only weapons this class may use for Telekinetic Fighting. You may generate as many as you would like at the rate of at least 1 Hand/Weapon as a move action and they may be utilized anywhere within the range of your Hands. You may not create more weapons than you have Hands available. It takes a move action to do any one of the following for all currently formed weapons: invest Hands, remove invested Hands, or dismiss the weapons. These weapons follow the same rules as normal weapons when used in Telekinetic Fighting.

All invested Hands apply to the damage dice as well as the bonus modifier. These weapons use your Cha modifier for to hit and damage rolls instead of any physical ones.

These deal damage equal to 1d6/Hand damage and count as either Piercing, Bludgeoning, or Slashing whichever is most beneficial. They gain a bonus to hit of +1/Hand. Maximum Hands invested in a single weapon are equal to your class levels. These are treated as weapons the Telekineticist is proficient with for all purposes. Their critical range begins at 20/x2. This increases to 20/x3 at 11th level, and to 19-20/x3 at 16th.

At 4th level these weapons may be treated as magical for the purposes of overcoming DR. At 10th level they may be considered to be any or all of the following for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction: cold iron, silver, and magical . Finally, at 16th level may be considered to be any or all of the following for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction: adamantine, cold iron, silver, and magical. This is chosen at the time the weapons are formed.

At level 20 these weapons may be considered to be any or all of the following for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction: Epic, of your alignment for both the Law-Chaos scale and Good-Evil scale, adamantine, cold iron, silver, and magical.

These weapons may take any color and whatever weapon shape you chose, but this has no mechanical effect. These weapons are all medium sized with a 5' reach. They may be made larger with Improved Telekinetic Fighting, although only 1d6 gets improved to the next step up no matter how many d6s you get normally, but their reach improves as normal for getting larger.



TK SAVANT ACF
Whereas the psion and the wilder have learned to hone their minds into weapons capable of manifesting their merest whim, many Telekineticists find they are too specialized to manifest in the truest sense. Some few discover instead how to mimic the effects of certain powers through manipulation of their Hands. These few are known as Telekineticist Savants.

Replaces:
Medium Armour Proficiency, Martial Skill, Critical Thinking, Far Trick.
Delay the acquisition of TK Fighting by one step (Least @ 6th, Lesser @ 11th and Improved @ 16th). You do not gain Greater TK Fighting at any point.
Change the Telekineticist's BAB to average progression (like a cleric). You are not as martially minded as other Telekineticists, but your understanding of your powers stretch to the abstract far more than most.

Benefits:

Warp Reality
At 1st level you start to gain a number of Psi-Like abilities as you progress, determined by which discipline you choose to follow (listed below). Each ability requires a number of hands to be used, equal to the level of the power simulated. Hands used this way are considered used until the beginning of your next turn. Your manifester level is equal to your class level, and any saves run off your Charisma modifier.
1st level. Level 1 power, usable 3+ con modifier times per day.
3rd level. Level 2 power, usable 2+ con modifier times per day.
5th level. Level 3 power, usable 1+ con modifier times per day.
7th level. Level 4 power, usable con modifier times per day.
9th level. Level 5 power, usable con modifier -1 times per day.

Power Overwhelming
At 4th level you gain the ability to augment your Warp Reality with additional hands. Each additional hand counts as 2 power points for this purpose. You begin being able to use only 1 additional hand in this way. You may use another additional hand for every 4 levels thereafter (2 extra at 8th, 3 at 12th, etc, to a maximum of 5 additional hands at 20th.)

Master of the Far Hand
Remove this line from the ability:
"You no longer take range penalties to your far tricks."
Add this line to the ability:
Your Warp Reality powers now require only a move action to use. Your level 1 Warp Reality power is now at will.

Disciplines
Below are listed the discipline power lists, you must select one at 1st level, and may never change this choice. If a power uses your Intelligence for a calculation, replace it with your Charisma. If a power requires a touch attack, you may use a Hand to deliver it at a range of 5ft/class level, as long as you have one free. Each discipline grants a class skill and another ability (much like a Cleric's domain)

The Beast (Psychometabolism)
Add Knowledge (Nature) and Survival to the Telekineticist's list of class skills.

1st level power. Thicken Skin
2nd level power. Animal Affinity
3rd level power. Hustle
4th level power. Metamorphosis
5th level power. Psychofeedback

Claws of The Beast
At 5th level you gain the ability to grow claws using your Hands. As a move action you may use a Hand to gain a natural claw attack, which you maintain for as long as you have at least one Hand invested in it. You may invest additional hands for extra damage to a maximum of 1/4 class levels (so you begin with only one Hand for the claw, but may add a second at Telekineticist level 8). The claw attack deals damage equal to 1D6/Hand + Charisma AND Strength modifier.


The Traveler (Psychoportation)
Add Knowledge (The Planes) to the Telekineticist's list of class skills.

1st level power. Detect Teleportation
2nd level power. Dimension Swap
3rd level power. Astral Caravan
4th level power. Psionic Dimensional Anchor
5th level power. Psionic Teleport

Group Mentality
At 5th level you gain the ability to manifest the power Astral Traveller at will as a move action. This requires the use of one Hand which is used until the end of your turn. You may touch multiple targets with the same move action (1 Hand/target), as long as you have enough Hands to do so.



The Mentalist (Telepathy)
Add Bluff to the Telekineticist's list of class skills.

1st level power. Psionic Charm
2nd level power. Psionic Suggestion
3rd level power. Hostile Empathic Transfer
4th level power. Psionic Dominate
5th level power. Mind Probe

Mind's Eye
Your Mind's eye ability gains the following enhancement:
You may improve your Mind's Eye ability with the use of an additional hand. You gain the effects of the Read Thoughts power with 2 differences:
The area becomes that of your Mind's Eye ability.
Creatures with an intelligence of 26 or higher (and at least 10 points higher than your own intelligence score) no longer stun you if they are read. Instead, you simply cannot comprehend the thoughts you read and therefore gain no effect for the purposes of these creatures.

The Augur (Clairsentience)
Add Gather Information to the Telekineticist's list of class skills.

1st level power. Precognition
2nd level power. Clairvoyant Sense
3rd level power. Fate Link
4th level power. Remote Viewing
5th level power. Clairtangent Hand (except as follows);

1. This emulates one of your Hands, not the Far Hand power.
2. When you augment this power, it allows you to make a Force Burst, Force Fling, or Mental Strength action (not telekinetic force, maneuver or thrust) with the clairtangent hand, as if it were a Hand within your TK range.

Preemptive Defenses
At 5th level The Augur gains the ability as a move action to 'reserve' a number of his hands up to 1/4 class level. You may reserve these hands until you next sleep, and as long as they are reserved they may not be used for any other abilities, releasing a hand from this ability is a move action. For as long as you have at least one Hand reserved, you gain a +2/hand reserved as an insight bonus to reflex saves and AC.


The Maker (Metacreativity)


Add Knowledge (Engineering) to the Telekineticist's list of class skills.

1st level power. Astral Construct
2nd level power. Psionic Repair Damage
3rd level power. Ectoplasmic Cocoon
4th level power. Psionic Fabricate
5th level power. Hail of Crystals

Constructive Hands
At 5th level The Maker learns to turn his Hands into finely crafted tools, to astonishing results. Whenever The Maker makes a Craft check, he may use a number of Hands equal to 1/2 class levels, always 2 at a time (so 2, 4, 6, etc), henceforth called a 'Pair' to simulate a duplicate of himself for the work.
This ability has 3 effects and may be used in conjunction with Craft (Sculpture) for the purposes of creating astral constructs and for Craft checks involving Psionic Fabricate, but has no effect on the time it takes to manifest the powers:

1. Gain a cumulative +2 bonus to your Craft check results for each Pair you invested in the Crafting check.
2. Multiply your Craft check result by 1+ Pairs you have invested in the check for the purposes of calculating time taken to craft.
3. At 9th level, when you gain the Focused Shield ability, you also gain the ability to shape your shields in a new way. By using 2 equally sized shields, you may create a hemisphere which has a radius equal to the size of the panes making it (i.e. two 10x10 panes would create a 10ft radius hemisphere). You may enlarge the hemisphere with additional Pairs at a rate of +5ft radius/Pair invested. The hemisphere counts as a single shield when adding extra hands for increased damage and bullrush checks.

jiriku
2011-12-07, 01:20 AM
Overview: A nice attempt at a classic character type, but it feels a little rough and unpolished. However, you've got a lot of good material here, and with a little work, I think you can whip this into fine shape. Looking at power level, you're well short of your target. This is a tier 5 class as currently written.

Something that jumps out at me on a first read-through is that the telekinetic abilities lack a unifying mechanical principle. For example, Telekinesis has a lifting strength based on character level, while Telekinetic Fighting has an attack Strength based (presumably) on the character's Strength score, and Far Trick has a breaking strength based on your Charisma score. I'd suggest building a single mechanic to determine your effective Strength score when using all telekinetic class features, and then using that unified mechanic throughout the class.

Minor notes: The class name you're looking for is telekinetic. I'd also suggest you quickly run your text through spell check and proof your grammar to make it more readable. People tend to read a class more thoroughly and give a more thoughtful critique when the material is cleanly written. All abilities need to be identified as extraordinary, supernatural, or spell-like in their descriptions. This determines how they interact with an antimagic field and whether or not they provoke attacks of opportunity when used.

Class Skills: I'd definitely recommend Autohypnosis for the class skill list, as it seems a great fit for the class. Disable Device, OTOH, seems a poor fit since you have neither Search, Trapfinding, nor a high Intelligence to support it.

Telekinesis: You'll need to specify what kind of action is needed to simply sustain an object. Does the ability require concentration? Can the concentration be disrupted, per normal rules? How much rest is required after using telekinesis, and what counts as resting?

Force Blast: Need to specify the type of action required to use force blast.

Telekinetic Fighting: Does the character suffer the normal penalties if he attempts to fight with a weapon that is larger than what he could normally wield in his hands? For example, suppose a Medium human attempts to telekinetically wield a colossal greatsword. Also, D&D rounds down, not up. Thus, I'd suggest you maintain "one weapon, plus one for every five levels above first (two at 6th, three at 11th, etc.)". It seems odd to allow multiple weapons beginning at 6th level, but not allow two-handed weapons until 16th. After all, two longswords deal a lot more damage than one two-handed sword.

Far Trick: I'd suggest that rather than merely being able to break open doors, you should use the text, "You may use your telekinesis to make Strength checks to break objects with sudden force. Your telekinesis has a Strength score equal to your Charisma score for this purpose."

Telekinetic Flight: Once the character reaches his flight limit duration, how long must he wait before he can fly again?

Focused Shield: This ability is quite weak for an 18th level feature. I'd recommend you grant it 8-10 levels earlier. Also, you need a little more detail about the wall. Does it have hardness, hit points, and a break DC like a normal wall? What effects can potentially destroy or punch a hole through it? What Strength score does it use to defend itself in the opposed bull rush attempts?

bobthe6th
2011-12-07, 01:35 PM
A lot of god points. I will fix this tonight or perhapce this weekend.

But as to the wall, I planed on leaving it an imatirial wall that just counters attempts to move through it with a bullrush. I stuck it in at 18 as I needed to fill a dead level.


Thinking of standerdizeing the abilaty to hold things with telicanisis to being able to do more than one thing in a single standard action. Perhapce initiate one action or maintain one action per 5 levels? Per four? Per three? Not sure.

zegram 33
2011-12-07, 02:55 PM
as a completley unrelated thing, i must agree with the above, your spelling is awful
totally readable though, so theres no real problem there, just sayin:smallwink:

as to the class, it seems good, but if i'm completley honest, the actual amount lifted seems that it might be unfair: what happens if things lifted are damaged, etc, and what happens if you attempt to lift people, more specificallly

from the wording (up to a mass of) it appears you can lift multiple objects at once, but my concern is that humans weigh, according to the d+d wiki, 120lb each, base weight, so that sounds like you can slowly lift one person every level (maybe 1.5 levels) for constitution rounds, so you could easily have a group of 5 people 100 ft in the air by 7th level, which sounds pretty powerful

similarly, some more powerful enemies will be very vulnerable to this, some will only be attackable with other objects (clay golems have CR 10, but weigh 600lb so could be thrown around at 20ft/round by that point, whereas stone golems have CR11 but weigh 2000lbs)

basically i guess im saying can it affect enemies directly, and if so how/do they get a saving thow, etc

bobthe6th
2011-12-07, 04:19 PM
going to do more edits tonight...

bobthe6th
2011-12-07, 07:53 PM
changed some stuff, moved some stuff. will update the fluff soon.

bobthe6th
2011-12-08, 07:25 PM
so thoughts? got 2 opinions so far, and now it should be mostly fixed...

Veklim
2011-12-08, 09:08 PM
Gonna read through in a bit, just wanted to ask first, did you mean Telekineticist by any chance?

bobthe6th
2011-12-08, 09:12 PM
huh, that does in fact work. will replace


edit: found and replaced

Jade Dragon
2011-12-08, 09:31 PM
Can this class make magic weapons? Specifically, hideaway weapons?

"I see you've forged your own lightsaber."

Veklim
2011-12-08, 09:34 PM
Missing light armour proficiency (unless you intend for all telekineticists to wear exclusively medium armour..?)

Regarding force blast...
I would love to see a Colossal longspear (144 lbs I believe) being hurled by this. That would be 6D6 +2D6/10ft unused distance (if you're not proficient with a longspear anyhow). That means a level 6 telekineticist could hurl this spear at point blank range (assuming 10ft travel minimum) for a total of 16D6 damage, unless the bonus d6s from leftover distance of objects and the leftover distance for piercing/slashing weapons are NOT meant to stack.
Am I missing something, or is this just horrific?

bobthe6th
2011-12-08, 09:42 PM
Unarmed AFC. boom, magic force light sabers. now find a way to get suggestion as an at will spell like ability... but no, it can't make them from scratch.

ah should specify that it is different, minor mix up there. anything else I need to make RAW=RAI?

Veklim
2011-12-08, 10:24 PM
Recipe for DM headache:

Obtain the Improvised Weapons feat, take one full quiver of arrows, tie a rope to the bottom, launch said quiver whilst holding rope...see where I'm going?


benefit: you may generate weapons of pure force. these deal damage equal to the number of 'hands' invested in them times 1d6 force damage. they get the Telekineticist's charisma modifier*.5*the number of hands invested+1. these can be are treated as weapons the Telekineticist is proficient with for all purposes.

OK, so they do 1D6/hand in damage, what's the Cha modifier *(1+ 1/2 hands) all about? You just say they get it, not what they get it as a bonus to...

Despite my (possibly) apparent derision, this looks capable of being an effective niche-caster with a reasonable array of interesting abilities. Seriously needs some work tidying up spelling, grammar and such, perhaps with a small tweak or two. Also, you give them wild talent, and they're obviously an essentially psionic class, but you don't specifically mention that anywhere and don't say how these guys interact with psionic feats (which they have access to due to their wild talent).

If you want help, I can happily fix grammar/spelling for you to cut/paste into the top, save you some hassle..?

NeoSeraphi
2011-12-08, 10:28 PM
It's "ACF", not "AFC" (ACF stands for Alternate Class Features)

bobthe6th
2011-12-08, 10:38 PM
point 1: eh, this is when the DM starts throwing things aswell. but, as I have been told by a few people, RAI is that an object in D&D is considered anything that stays together if you shake it hard. a quiver+arrows is one object, a stick on another stick is two objects. a rope attached well enough to reisit the several hundred Newtons of force required to launch a 3lb mass several meters is attached well enough to be a single object.

but stock answer is no. if pressed just let the rope snap from tension.


point 2:fixed
it was an attempt to add a strength equivalent to damage with a melee weapon.


on the offer of grammatical assistance: sure, I would happily receive assistance in the English language from an Englishman! if you would repair the grammatical failures i would be most grateful.

@neosariph: Gah, fixing... fixed

Veklim
2011-12-09, 12:20 PM
Telekinesis(SU): A Telekineticist can use the power of his mind to affect objects far away from him. As a standard action he can perform a number of actions, referred to as 'hands', equal to 1/3 class levels out to a range of 10ft/class level. Each hand can also sustain an ongoing affect, but is essentially used whilst doing so and therefore unavailable for anything else as long as the effect is sustained. If a telekinesis ability requires a save, it has a DC of 10+ 1/2 class levels+ charisma modifier. If your Telekinesis requires a physical ability score (such as opposed strength checks for a trip attempt), strength is replaced by charisma, dexterity by intelligence, and constitution by wisdom. To perform any of these actions he must be psionically focused.

Mental Strength(SU): A Telekineticist can move an object with his mind, or perform some act of manual dexterity at any distance within his power's range. He may move up to 50lb/level along at a rate of 30' per action, objects up to 100lb/level at a rate of 20' per action or 30' with two hands & objects up to 150lb/level at a rate of 10' per action, 20' with two hands or 30' with three hands. Creatures may be moved in this way, but they get a will save to negate the effects. These movements are not limited in direction, but do have a limited duration, the Telekineticist can maintain this pressure for a number of rounds equal to his constitution modifier.

The Telekineticist can also perform a feat of manual dexterity anywhere within the maximum range of his powers. This manipulation is limited by the number of hands used, if you wish to do something which would require two physical hands to acheive (like tie a knot in some rope), then you must use at least 2 hands.

OK, here's the first two as far as I can tell. If anything's wrong then lemme know, I'll do some more in a bit.

I'm thinking that anyone being moved by Mental Strength should probably get a save on each round they are being affected, not just the first.

togapika
2011-12-09, 02:13 PM
Throw in a level one levitate type ability so I can play a quad-amputee with this class!

Cookie for who gets the reference

Veklim
2011-12-09, 02:38 PM
You could always add Skate as a class feature, usable only on yourself at no more than medium load, but persistent for as long as you're conscious. You'd not move steeply uphill if you had 0ft landspeed to begin with, but you'd still move about otherwise :smallwink:

bobthe6th
2011-12-09, 03:29 PM
Mental strength, boom done. 25lb>weight 30ft round. 50lb>weight 20ft round. 100>weight 10ft frond.

Veklim
2011-12-09, 04:08 PM
Mental strength, boom done. 25lb>weight 30ft round. 50lb>weight 20ft round. 100>weight 10ft frond.

The original post needs changing, including (if you want them) the grammar/spelling 'fixes' in my previous spoilers. If it all looks OK then I'll carry on with them.

bobthe6th
2011-12-09, 04:21 PM
Edditing comes lattwer tonight, when I am not in the jump seat of a pickup. (Really, when you are near 6', jumpseats suck so much)... and the trick of copy and paste on a smart phone continues to escape me.

Edit:but the edits look good! They are true to my intentions, and the wording is much better than mine!

Veklim
2011-12-09, 04:50 PM
Good good, I feel your pain btw, I'm 6'2" myself :smallannoyed:

bobthe6th
2011-12-09, 05:33 PM
ok, posted edits. not sure about per round on the save though... it isn't really a save or die, and they are only being carried... ic can deal at max d6 level after level/3 or 2 or 1 rounds.

thoughts? is it a sirious balence issue?

also, is this class putting out to much raw damage? if it tries, and has large objects lieing around, it can do 2d6 level damage with a ranged attack. seems a little powerful...

also, would making the concentration to maintain affects a swift action be to much? as is it can't attack force blast and do any of its other attacks... or perhaps make force blast blow psionic focus?

Veklim
2011-12-10, 09:12 AM
OK, quick query before I continue, Mental Strength and Telekinetic fighting both give you a maximum number of rounds before having to stop, but don't detail how long you must wait before using them again. As it stands right now, you could just pick up where you left off in the very next round, thereby essentially negating the point of a limited duration. May I suggest you make it read:
'Once this limit is reached, the Telekineticist must wait a number of rounds equal to the rounds this ability was active before he may resume, i.e. if this ability is used for 4 rounds before stopping, it may not be used for another 4 rounds.'

Secondly, I've left out the confusing bit at the bottom of Force Blast, instead leaving the 1D6/10ft not travelled thing as universal for all objects AND weapons. As you have it now, only bludgeoning weapons DON'T get the bonus, and that makes no sense to me. If you wish to say:
'Any piercing weapon launched with this deals an additional 1D6 damage.'
I can see that making more sense.

Anyhow, back to the work at hand! :smallbiggrin:

Force Blast(SU):
You can put out prodigious amounts of force in small bursts. As a standard action, the Telekineticist can launch an object within his telekinesis range, weighing no more than 25lb/level. The object travels up to 10ft/level and this movement may take it outside of your telekinesis range. The Telekineticist makes a standard ranged attack with the object, which deals bludgeoning or piercing damage (DM's choice) dependant on it's weight equal to 1d6/25lb (or part thereof). Regardless of the item launched, you do not take a non-proficiency penalty for this attack. Weapons launched with this power deal bludgeoing damage according to their weight unless you are proficient with them, at which point you may deal normal weapon damage (and damage type) instead. The object or weapon deals an additional +1d6 damage for each 10ft of movement it had left when it stops (so a 6th level Telekineticist throwing a 25lb object 10ft before impact would deal 6d6 damage, 1d6 for the 25lb of weight, and another 5d6 for the 50ft it failed to travel before connecting).

You may also focus this power as a blast of pure force. Doing so requires a standard ranged attack which deals 1d4/2 class levels force damage to one target within your telekinesis range. The target gets a fortitude save for half damage (this affects objects).

Telekinetic Fighting(SU):
Least:
At 2nd level the Telekineticist may fight within the range of his telekinesis, using his 'hands' to wield a melee weapon with which he is proficient. As a standard action, you may make a single melee attack with this weapon, using Charisma instead of Strength for the to hit and damage rolls. You only threaten squares within your physical reach, if the weapon is beyond this range it does not threaten on it's own. A two-handed weapon requires two 'hands' to use. Any weapon/s held by your telekinesis may have additional hands added to it, each increasing the damage by 1/2 charisma modifier. The Telekineticist suffers -2 to hit and a -1 to damage for every 10ft increment between the weapon and the telekineticist, to a maximum of his telekinetic range. He may maintain this effect for a number of rounds equal to his constitution modifier. The Telekineticist may not use Telekinetic Fighting in the same round as he has used Mental Strength, or vice versa, regardless of how many actions he has in his turn.

Lesser:
At 6th level you may make a full attack with the weapon/s you are wielding with Telekinetic Fighting. You may not make more attacks than you could with a single weapon, even if you have the 2 weapon fighting or multiattack feats, but you may spread your iterative attacks between weapons at no penalty. You may now hold a light or heavy shield with one 'hand' or a tower shield in two 'hands'.

Improved:
At 12th level all weapons you are wielding with telekinetic fighting count as threatening all squares adjacent to them (or further if the weapon has the reach quality). Additionally, you may wield a weapon of a larger size category than you normally could for your size. For every size category larger than normal, the weapon requires an additional 'hand' to weild, these hands do not add extra damage, but you may add further hands to do so.

Greater:
At 16th level you no longer take the -2 to hit and -1 to damage for every 10ft between you and your weapon, but you are still limited to the range of your telekinesis. Also, as a standard action you may attack once with each weapon weilded by your Telekinetic Fighting. This is done with a single attack roll at your highest attack bonus, but takes a penalty to hit equal to the number of weapons being weilded -1.

Added a couple of minor tweaks to Telekinetic Fighting, mainly to cover the holes in the wording as best I could without changing what I believe you were saying.

bobthe6th
2011-12-10, 01:40 PM
thank you that lot is great!

going to leave piercing damage as normal, it was odd when I stuck it in there and I haven't felt any better about it since.

the limit idea might be ok... though it limits him a bit heavily. perhaps up to wisdom mod rounds, then the cool down starts building up? the cool down can then build up to wisdom then it is automatically activated. got the abilaty to do lots of small stuff repeatedly, but long duration has a limit.

Veklim
2011-12-10, 05:38 PM
OK, how about this then:
This ability has a maximum duration equal to your constitution modifier, after which time the Telekineticist is fatigued for 1D3 rounds. This ability may not be initiated again until the end of the fatigue effect. Every time you use this ability in the same encounter, it's maximum duration is reduced by 1, to a minimum of 1 round.

bobthe6th
2011-12-10, 06:05 PM
hmm... that seems fine. add in that 25lb/2levels can be moved without fatigue. then he can lift small things all the time, but heavy things are a strain. seems a good mechanic though.

Veklim
2011-12-10, 07:33 PM
If you made it 25lb/3 levels it would scale at the same rate as your number of hands, which correlates well but still allows for a fair bit of free-play...

Also, whilst thinking about it, you should add the text underlined to Telekinesis' description as follows:


Telekinesis(SU): A Telekineticist can use the power of his mind to affect objects far away from him. As a standard action he can perform a number of actions, referred to as 'hands', equal to 1/3 class levels (minimum of 1) out to a range of 10ft/class level...

Just realised that without that there, it could easily mean you don't get a hand until level 3! (Please excuse the almost unintentional pun)

Got an actual, bona fide, honest and true day off tomorrow (unless on-call ring me at 5:30 in the morning, AGAIN...) so I'll get cracking on some more of these for you then. Will probably keep cluttering up your thread with questions as I go through but I'm noticing stuff which needs amending/clarifying this way and it's not my brainchild, so you'll have to deal with it! :smallwink:

bobthe6th
2011-12-10, 08:05 PM
heh, I am glad of the help.

added minimum, will add the fatigue underlined. feel free to criticize its placement/grammar.

Veklim
2011-12-10, 08:29 PM
objects of 25lb/3 levels (1 level= 25/3=8 and 1/3lb) can be maintained without this limit.

Hrm, maybe 10lb/level is just simpler and easier..?

bobthe6th
2011-12-10, 08:42 PM
but 10 is hard to convert for damage. it goes by 25s...

Veklim
2011-12-10, 10:02 PM
Then start with 25lb and add 25lb/3 levels, that's 50 lb for levels 3-5, 75lb for 6-8, etc... Sits bang between the last 2 ideas at a maximum of 175lb at level 18 and still works with the hands for scaling. Don't worry about trying to figure a new value every level, just round down to the nearest integer, nice'n'simple.

Will set about the rest of the edit tomorrow! :smallbiggrin:

(I will likely have more questions for you)

Veklim
2011-12-10, 10:04 PM
BTW, might wanna correct the Post's title, could help getting PEACHers in.

Veklim
2011-12-11, 06:05 PM
Telekinetic Reach (SU):
At third level, any weapon you are weilding with your Telekinetic Fighting threatens adjacent squares as normal for a weapon of it's type. If the weapon has the reach quality then calculate accordingly.
Notes: Just put in a proviso for reach weapons.


Far Trick (SU):
As your powers start to mature, you gain the ability to make specific types of attacks within your Telekinesis range. These work as normal except Charisma is used instead of Strength, your opponent does not get the chance to make a retaliatory attempt if you fail, and your size bonus (or penalty) does not apply to these checks. To begin with, each ability receives a penalty of -1/10ft away from the target you are. Each ability requires one hand to activate.

Starting at 4th level you may attempt to break down a door or bullrush an opponent.
At 8th level you may attempt disarm attempts against foes. The penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/20ft.
At 12th level you may attempt trip attempts against foes. The penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/40ft, and the penalty for disarming is reduced to -1/20ft.
At 16th level the penalty for triping is reduced to -1/20ft, the penalty for disarming is reduced to -1/40ft, and the penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/80ft.
Notes: Re-jigged the layout of this ability to try and cut down on wording. Could probably do a little table to show all the range penalties, but I don't think it's needed really.


Mind's Eye (SU):
At 5th level, as a full round action you may gain blind sight out to half your telekinesis range until the start of your next turn.
At 10th level this increases to full telekinesis range.
At 15th level you may maintain this ability indefinitely with one hand.
At 20th level this ability is always active (even when you are not psionically focused).
Notes: Tidied up and clarified the words always active.


Martial skill (Ex):
You may not be a fighter, but you understand weapons of war.
At 5th level you gain two additional martial weapon proficiencies.
At 9th level you gain two more additional martial weapon proficiencies.
At 14th level you gain one additional martial weapon proficiency and one additional exotic weapon proficiency.
At 19th level you gain two additional exotic weapon proficiencies.

Telekinetic Flight(SU):
You have finally mastered moving yourself by will alone. You gain flight as long as you are in no more than medium armour and carrying no more than a medium load.
At 7th level, you may fly at a speed of 30ft with perfect maneuverability for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom modifier. You may keep this flight up indefinitely by using two additional hands.
At 11th level, your fly spedd increases to 40ft and you may stay aloft for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom score. You only need one hand to keep this up indefinitely.
At 13th level, your fly speed increases to 60ft and may be used without limit.

Notes: Added proviso for armour/carry capacity maximums.

Will get the last ones later.

bobthe6th
2011-12-11, 06:13 PM
those are great, and have now been added.

Veklim
2011-12-11, 06:18 PM
May I also suggest a few feats to go with your class? Stuff that enhances/diversifies certain abilities, like a feat which improves your Far Trick checks by 2 and allows you to use additional hands to add cumulative +1s on top, or a feat allowing you to use your flight to move allies as well as yourself for instance... :smallbiggrin:

bobthe6th
2011-12-11, 06:29 PM
well, mental strength caould work for short distance hops... and until high levels even your normal flight is limited...
but I think I should add that additional hands can also increase the maximum weight the Telekineticist can carry freely with mental strength. each hand doubleing the weight limit. then he can just have everyone sit in a net that he then levitates... lets see at level 10 thats 300 lb, so not yet unless its a party of halflings... level 15 its 750lb so unless the fighter is a behemoth the party should be good. level 15 sounds about right for at will mass fly...

but feats do need some thoughts. perhapce a feat that boost your indefinate carrying cappacity? goes from 25lb/3 levels->50lb/3 levels->100lb/3levels. then real party flight might work, but he has to pay a feat tax for it.

Veklim
2011-12-12, 10:31 AM
Focused Shield(SU):
At 9th level you may create a barrier with your Telekinesis as a move action. Any unattended objects or projectiles (including spells which require an attack roll) are instantly stopped and cannot pass through. If a creature attemts to pass through, it suffers an immediate bullrush attack upon contact with the barrier, as if the barrier were a gargantuan creature with a Strength score equal to your Wisdom score. If the barrier wins the opposed check, the creature is pushed back 5ft (but no more, since the barrier cannot move from the squares it has been placed in), if the creature wins, it forces it's way through the barrier, dispersing it. In either case the creature takes force damage equal to 1D6 +1/class level. The barrier is 10ft square, positioned as you please within Telekinesis range and requires 2 hands to maintain. You may maintain multiple barriers at once, so long as you have enough hands to create them.
Notes: Expanded the description of this and clarified a lot, please check it over carefully and re-edit if needed before you post it up top! Made it need 2 hands instead of one, I think it's too powerful to be needing only one hand really, and this way the number of extra barriers is reduced but still useful. Added nominal force damage regardless of result to compensate for the extra hand needed.


Disrupting Throw(SU):
At 15th level, as an immediate action, you may attempt an attack of opportunity against any opponent up to 5ft/class level away. They must have just taken an action which would provoke an attack of opportunity were you adjacent to them, but you need not be threatening the opponent. You may use your Force Blast ability, or any of the abilities you know through Far Trick. This counts towards your attacks of opportunity for the round.
Notes: This is expanded quite a bit too, but as it read before, you could do this whenever you felt like. Now, at least, the opponent has to do SOMETHING which warrants the AoO, even if it was done 40ft away from you! :smallwink:


Ghostly Hand(SU):
At 17th level onwards, your abilities become capable of affecting ethereal objects and enemies. Objects thrown using Force Blast must be ethereal to do so, but weapons weilded using Telekinetic Fighting are treated as being both corporeal and ethereal from now on.
Notes: Not much needed here, but did allow weapons to be treated as ethereal automatically (though not objects, since they're launched, not weilded). It's a 17th level ability after all...


Master of the Far Hand(EX):
At 20th level, you have reached the pinnacle of your mental power. Reality becomes an illusion which you can bend like putty, and many of your abilities are enhanced as follows:
All your Telekinesis dependent abilities are now considered Extraordinary.
Your Disrupting Throw becomes a free action and may be used anywhere within your Telekinesis range.
Your flight speed increases to 120ft.
You no longer take range penalties to your far tricks.
You count as using twice as many hands as you devote to Mental Strength for performing acts of manual dexterity.
Notes: Tweaked Disrupting Throw's enhancement so it reads as I think you intended. Tidied it up. :smallbiggrin:

I hope this is all OK for you, I've tried to stay as close as possible to what I believe was your aim, but cover up the holes in the process. If any of it needs changing then go ahead, it's your work anyhow, I'm just the editor! :smalltongue:

Veklim
2011-12-12, 10:50 AM
well, mental strength caould work for short distance hops... and until high levels even your normal flight is limited.....level 15 sounds about right for at will mass fly...
This is true, but I wasn't thinking for early levels, 15th sounds about right to me too.


but I think I should add that additional hands can also increase the maximum weight the Telekineticist can carry freely with mental strength. each hand doubleing the weight limit.
Be careful with words like 'double', especially when talking about multiple instances of the calculation! How about this then, at the end of Telekinesis, replace this:

objects of 25lb/3 levels +25lb can be maintained without this limit.
with this:
"Objects weighing 25lb + 25lb/3 levels may be maintained without limit with one hand. For two hands, this becomes 25lb + 25lb/2 levels instead, and for three hands this limit becomes 25lb + 25lb/level."

Nearly the same effect up to 3 hands, but has no further effect afterwards, therefore reducing too much breakage at higher levels.



but feats do need some thoughts. perhapce a feat that boost your indefinate carrying cappacity? goes from 25lb/3 levels->50lb/3 levels->100lb/3levels. then real party flight might work, but he has to pay a feat tax for it.
Not needed with the above amendment, but I'd take a similar tack to the above if I were to make it a feat, again to stop too much munkinism.

Will throw some thoughts for feats at you later sometime, must be back off to work for now though.

Adios! :smallbiggrin:

bobthe6th
2011-12-12, 06:47 PM
all the edits were good, and the shield now works as I intended. now this really needs some third party PEACH, as I think we both agree on th class as it stands now...

feats... perhapce a track of feats to allow for multy classing?

Veklim
2011-12-12, 08:04 PM
Got an idea or two in that sort of direction, will post up a few suggestions tomorrow.

I'd agree, yup. 3rd party needed!

bobthe6th
2011-12-14, 07:44 PM
so... thoughts anyone?(thinly veiled bump...)

bobthe6th
2011-12-15, 09:11 PM
really, you lot should post...

bobthe6th
2011-12-18, 07:37 PM
any one? please?

rweird
2011-12-31, 02:55 PM
Your Disrupting Throw becomes a free action and may be used anywhere within your Telekinesis range.

What does that mean? If you mean it no longer uses on of your AoO then replace "Your Disrupting Throw becomes a free action." With "You may use Disrupting Throw as many time per round as you want though only once per attack of opportunity."

As currently worded I think it means you can use disrupting throw as a free action instead of an immediate action. That wouldn't do anything because it still counts towards your AoO for that round. However with my "fix" that means there is a guy with a 200 ft. reach that can make infinite AoO that can trip, bull rush, or damage. If you take the feat that stops casters from casting defensively, you can hurl a giant spear that deal 6d6+0-20d6 damage forcing a on average DC >31 concentration check or loose the spell. I gets worse for melee characters because they need to get up next to you. so Mr. Hitty charges moving 30 ft. provoking 6 AoO. You could hit him with 4 giant spears, trip him and bull rush him back so he has to do it again next round.

If you use Force blast as a blast of pure force it should be a ranged touch attack. Also specify if it effects ethereal creatures.

eftexar
2011-12-31, 03:41 PM
I've not seen an attempt at a telekinetic in a while. May I inquire as to where you got the idea? The hands sort of remind me of an anime I watched once.
Anyways, besides the problem with wording for that one ability, I have another major concern. I understand he uses melee weapons, but he does so with telekinesis. I think an "Effective Telekinesis Level" in place of BaB for this attack would be better. The full BaB just bothers me (drop it to 10). I might also drop the skills points to 2 and/or the HD to d6, as this class makes an excellent blaster and battlefield controller.
It shouldn't get hit that often (after you reword it*, it should get a few attacks to trip approaching attackers up) and the telekinetic hands make most strength and dexterity check irrelevant.
*I wouldn't change the action or allow infinite uses, but would just say that he can use it as an attack of opportunity.

How does the fighter provoke 6 AoOs though? I can see two, one for moving and one for attacking. Unless you pick up robilar's gambit and karmic strike or something.

bobthe6th
2011-12-31, 03:41 PM
cleared up the wording.
it means that you no longer use up your immediate action when you use the ability. you are limited by your amount of AOOs, but you aren't limited to one use per round. so if you get combat reflexes at level 20 you can do some fun things, but not utterly broken things.

I liked it as a save. you aren't throwing a ball of explosion, you are trying to tear apart your foe from the inside. you don't miss, your foe might just take the explosion better if he has a strong body.

edit: nij'd...
the hands were because thats what they gave... no real reason.
the idea came from wanting to make a calss based around the telekinesis spell, and spreading it out over 20 levels.

well... that adds a layer of complexity, and limits his acses to some important feats(combat reflexes for one...)
the class also spends most of his life in charge range(only at higher levels is he 60ft+ away from foes. I would rather him have an ok HD.
he also doesn't have 3 skills to focus on like most casters. less then awful SP seems reasonable.

rweird
2011-12-31, 04:32 PM
I've not seen an attempt at a telekinetic in a while. May I inquire as to where you got the idea? The hands sort of remind me of an anime I watched once.
Anyways, besides the problem with wording for that one ability, I have another major concern. I understand he uses melee weapons, but he does so with telekinesis. I think an "Effective Telekinesis Level" in place of BaB for this attack would be better. The full BaB just bothers me (drop it to 10). I might also drop the skills points to 2 and/or the HD to d6, as this class makes an excellent blaster and battlefield controller.
It shouldn't get hit that often (after you reword it*, it should get a few attacks to trip approaching attackers up) and the telekinetic hands make most strength and dexterity check irrelevant.
*I wouldn't change the action or allow infinite uses, but would just say that he can use it as an attack of opportunity.

How does the fighter provoke 6 AoOs though? I can see two, one for moving and one for attacking. Unless you pick up robilar's gambit and karmic strike or something.

Moving from "threatened square" to another square provokes an AoO. Moving out of the next does as well. He does that six times.

bobthe6th
2011-12-31, 04:44 PM
and if the telikenetist has combat reflexes, a high dex(which isn't all that usful as his dex is replaced by int for mind stuff) and wants one fighters life to suck he can really mess with him... or he could just slap down a wall and let the fighter bounce off it...

Veklim
2012-01-01, 12:27 PM
I've not seen an attempt at a telekinetic in a while. May I inquire as to where you got the idea? The hands sort of remind me of an anime I watched once.

Are you thinking of 'Elfen Lied' by any chance? I've been trying to put my finger on why the hands idea sounded familiar for weeks, only twigged when you said anime!

bobthe6th
2012-02-05, 10:33 PM
Ok, last PEACH call before I call this done.

DerTollUdo
2012-02-08, 11:58 PM
Hey, just found this. Too late to peach right now.
Will do so tomorrow morning though :)
Cool class by the way.

bobthe6th
2012-02-09, 12:03 AM
sweet! it won't die quite yet!

DerTollUdo
2012-02-09, 12:31 PM
Just so you know, PEACH started. Will edit with thoughts when done.

Not to step on the great work Velkim did, but I found a few small typos, nothing major. Would you be opposed to me fixing them and copy pastaing into the PEACH?

bobthe6th
2012-02-09, 01:17 PM
Mind pointing them out in the critique? I would like to see what you found.

DerTollUdo
2012-02-09, 01:24 PM
So far it's just been things with capitalizing the first word of a sentence, adding an extra gap between some really long paragraphs for readability, changing wording to keep within the tense of the sentence it is in, and a few letters that got mixed up or forgotten. I have found several by now, a few too many to point out, but I just copied the whole thing and am editing as I read so I don't think I can point them all out lol.

Veklim
2012-02-09, 01:40 PM
I knew I'd miss a few, and I never touched the flavour text. Not had much time to drop back in on this and look with fresh eyes. Was gonna suggest a couple of feats to go with this wasn't I?

Here's the first one that I remeber, had a couple more in my mind which I will put down when I remember what they did!

Heavy Handed.
Requirements: Far Trick Telekineticist ability
Benefits: You may use additional hands whilst using your Far Trick class ability. For each additional hand you dedicate to the Far Trick attempt, you gain a +1 to any opposed rolls made as part of that attempt.

DerTollUdo
2012-02-09, 02:49 PM
This contains my edits. It is the whole first post.

This is in need of PEACH. Just skip past the old comments.


Special thanks to VEKLIM for editing. It was a lot messier before.
Really, first time I got an editor, and the class is better for it...

So, I have tried to make blasters. They have all been kinda busy, and introduce to many new concepts. So going to try a different tact, something in line with an invoker.

The Telekineticist. A rather long name but oh well.

When some peoples psionic talent surfaces, they show odd signs. Some of these show it through the sudden movement of objects. Flying plates and tables mark a developing psion, yet some never grow out of it. These psions grow in power, standing up to psions in their own right as masters of psionic power.




Characteristics: The Telekineticist relies on its mind to create force affects. This can range from throwing a mass at a foe, throwing a foe, fighting with a weapon held with his mind, even to full power flight!

Alignment: The Telekineticist can be of any alinement. The power of the mind bares no alinement above others.

Religion: The Telekineticist favors gods of battle and psionics.

Races: Humans are drawn to this class like any other. Small races also enjoy this class, as it lets them use brains in place of brawn. Any mining race tends to have many Telekineticists since they aid in the mining process. All psionic races tend to favor this class like any other psionic class.

Other Classes: Martial classes tend to dislike The Telekineticist, as they seem too magical to be true martial. Magical classes enjoy The Telekineticist, as they seem to merely be imitating their own power.

Role: Can take on the role of a secondary tank, or perhaps stealth. But this class shines at battle field control. With numerous abilities for punishing foes unwilling to move as he wishes, and the ability to physically move foes into a formation of his choice, he can add some useful utility outside of combat while performing numerous tricks at a distance.

Game Rule Information:
Abilities:Charisma is very important, as it is the strength of The Telekineticist. Wisdom allows the Telekineticist to maintain effects longer. As this class is intended for combat a good constitution is important.

Alignment: Any

Hit Die: d8

The Telekineticist
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

1st|+1|+0|+0|+2|Telekinesis, Mental Strength, Force Blast, Wild Talent

2nd|+2|+0|+0|+3| Least Telekinetic fighting

3rd|+3|+1|+1|+3|Telekinetic reach

4th|+4|+1|+1|+4| Far trick

5th|+5|+1|+1|+4| Martial skill

6th|+6/+1|+2|+2|+5| Lesser Telekinetic fighting

7th|+7/+2|+2|+2|+5| Telekinetic flight

8th|+8/+3|+2|+2|+6| Far trick

9th|+9/+4|+3|+3|+6| Martial skill

10th|+10/+5|+3|+3|+7|Improved Telekinetic flight

11th|+11/+6/+1|+3|+3|+7| Improved Telekinetic fighting

12th|+12/+7/+2|+4|+4|+8| Far trick

13th|+13/+8/+3|+4|+4|+8| Greater Telekinetic flight

14th|+14/+9/+4|+4|+4|+9| Martial skill

15th|+15/+10/+5|+5|+5|+9| Disrupting throw

16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+5|+5|+10| Far trick, Greater Telekinetic fighting

17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+5|+5|+10| Ghostly hand

18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+6|+6|+11| Focused Shield

19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+6|+6|+11| Martial skill

20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+6|+6|+12| Master of the unseen hand
[/table]

Class Skills

The Telekineticist's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are; Auto Hypnosis(Con), Balance(Dex), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Escape artist(Dex), Knowledge (Psionics)(Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Slight of hand(Dex), Tumble(Dex), Use Psionic Device(Cha), and Psicraft (Int).

Skill Points at First Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

Proficiencies: A Telekineticist is proficient with all Simple weapons and one martial melee weapon of their choice. They are also proficient with light and medium armor, and all shields.

Telekinesis(SU): A Telekineticist can use the power of his mind to affect objects far away from him. As a standard action he can perform a number of actions, referred to as 'hands', equal to 1/3 class levels (minimum 1) out to a range of 10ft/class level. Each hand is able to sustain an ongoing affect, but is occupied while doing so, and therefore unavailable for anything else as long as the effect is sustained.

If a telekinesis ability requires a save, it has a DC of 10 + 1/2 class levels + charisma modifier. If your Telekinesis requires a physical ability score (such as opposed strength checks for a trip attempt), strength is replaced by charisma, dexterity by intelligence, and constitution by wisdom. To perform any of these actions he must be psionically focused, although he does not expend his focus by doing so.

Mental Strength(SU): A Telekineticist can move an object with his mind, or perform some act of manual dexterity at any distance within his power's range. He may move up to 50lb/level along at a rate of 30' per action, objects up to 100lb/level at a rate of 20' per action or 30' with two hands & objects up to 150lb/level at a rate of 10' per action, 20' with two hands or 30' with three hands. Creatures may be moved in this way, but they get a will save to negate the effects.

These movements are not limited in direction, but do have a limited duration. A Telekineticist can maintain pressure for up to wisdom modifier rounds, after that the object drops to the ground and the Telekineticist is fatigued for 1d4 rounds. Objects weighing 25lb + 25lb/3 levels may be maintained without limit with one hand. For two hands, this becomes 25lb + 25lb/2 levels instead, and for three hands this limit becomes 25lb + 25lb/level.

The Telekineticist can also perform a feat of manual dexterity anywhere within the maximum range of his powers. This manipulation is limited by the number of hands used, if you wish to do something which would require two physical hands to achieve (like tie a knot in some rope), then you must use at least 2 hands.

Force Blast(SU):You can put out prodigious amounts of force in small bursts. As a standard action, The Telekineticist can launch an object within his telekinesis range, weighing no more than 25lb/level. The object travels up to 10ft/level and this movement may take it outside of your telekinesis range. The Telekineticist makes a standard ranged attack with the object, which deals bludgeoning or piercing damage (DM's choice) depending on it's weight up to 1d6/25lb. Regardless of the item launched, you do not take a non-proficiency penalty for this attack. Weapons launched with this power deal bludgeoing damage according to their weight unless you are proficient with them, at which point you may deal normal weapon damage (and damage type) instead. The object or weapon deals an additional +1d6 damage for each 10ft of movement it had left when it stops (so a 6th level Telekineticist throwing a 25lb object 10ft before impact would deal 6d6 damage, 1d6 for the 25lb of weight, and another 5d6 for the 50ft it failed to travel before connecting).

You may also focus this power as a blast of pure force. Doing so requires a standard ranged attack which deals 1d4/2 class levels force damage to one target within your telekinesis range. The target gets a fortitude save for half damage (this effects objects).

Wild Talent: You gain the feat Wild Talent as a bonus feat.

Telekinetic Fighting(SU):

Least:
At 2nd level The Telekineticist may fight within the range of his telekinesis, using his 'hands' to wield a melee weapon with which he is proficient. As a standard action, you may make a single melee attack with this weapon, using Charisma instead of Strength for the to hit and damage rolls. You only threaten squares within your physical reach, if the weapon is beyond this range it does not threaten on it's own. A two-handed weapon requires two 'hands' to use. Any weapon(s) held by your telekinesis may have additional hands added to it, each increasing the damage by 1/2 charisma modifier. The Telekineticist suffers -2 to hit and a -1 to damage for every 10ft increment between the weapon and The Telekineticist, to a maximum of his telekinetic range. He may maintain this effect for a number of rounds equal to his constitution modifier per encounter. The Telekineticist may not use Telekinetic Fighting in the same round as he has used Mental Strength, or vice versa, regardless of how many actions he has in his turn.

Lesser:
At 6th level you may make a full attack with the weapon(s) you are wielding with Telekinetic Fighting. You may not make more attacks than you could with a single weapon, even if you have the 2 weapon fighting or multi-attack feats, but you may spread your iterative attacks between weapons at no penalty. You may now hold a light or heavy shield with one 'hand' or a tower shield in two 'hands'.

Improved:
At 12th level all weapons you are wielding with telekinetic fighting count as threatening all squares adjacent to them (or further if the weapon has the reach quality). Additionally, you may wield a weapon of a larger size category than you normally could for your size. For every size category larger than normal, the weapon requires an additional 'hand' to weild, these hands do not add extra damage, but you may add further hands to do so.

Greater:
At 16th level you no longer take the -2 to hit and -1 to damage for every 10ft between you and your weapon, but you are still limited to the range of your telekinesis. Also, as a standard action you may attack once with each weapon weilded by your Telekinetic Fighting. This is done with a single attack roll at your highest attack bonus, but takes a penalty to hit equal to the number of weapons being weilded -1.

Telekinetic Reach(SU): At third level, any weapon you are weilding with your Telekinetic Fighting threatens adjacent squares as normal for a weapon of it's type. If the weapon has the reach quality then calculate accordingly.

Far Trick(SU):Starting at 4th lvl when your powers start to mature, you gain the ability to make specific types of attacks within your Telekinesis range. These work as normal except Charisma is used instead of Strength and your size bonus (or penalty) does not apply to these checks. To begin with, each ability receives a penalty of -1/10ft away from the target you are. Each ability requires one hand to activate.

At 4th level you may attempt to break down a door or bullrush an opponent.

At 8th level you may attempt disarm attempts against foes. The penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/20ft.

At 12th level you may attempt trip attempts against foes. The penalty for disarming is reduced to -1/20ft, and the penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/40ft.

At 16th level the penalty for tripping is reduced to -1/20ft, the penalty for disarming is reduced to -1/40ft, and the penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/80ft.

Minds eye(SU): At 5th level, as a full round action you may gain blind sight out to half your telekinesis range until the start of your next turn.

At 10th level this increases to full telekinesis range.

At 15th level you may maintain this ability indefinitely with one hand.

At 20th level this ability is always active (even when you are not psionically focused).

Martial Skill (EX): You may not be a fighter, but you understand weapons of war.

At 5th level you gain two additional martial weapon proficiencies.

At 9th level you gain two more additional martial weapon proficiencies.

At 14th level you gain one additional martial weapon proficiency and one additional exotic weapon proficiency.

At 19th level you gain two additional exotic weapon proficiencies.

Telekinetic Flight(SU): You have finally mastered moving yourself by will alone.

At 7th level, you may fly at a speed of 30ft with perfect maneuverability for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom modifier. You may keep this flight up indefinitely by using two additional hands.

At 11th level, your fly speed increases to 40ft and you may stay aloft for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom score. You only need one hand to keep this up indefinitely.

At 13th level, your fly speed increases to 60ft and may be used without limit.

Focused Shield(SU):At 9th level you may create a barrier with your Telekinesis as a move action. Any unattended objects or projectiles (including spells which require an attack roll) are instantly stopped and cannot pass through. If a creature attempts to pass through, it suffers an immediate bullrush attack upon contact with the barrier, as if the barrier were a gargantuan creature with a Strength score equal to your Wisdom score. If the barrier wins the opposed check, the creature is pushed back 5ft (but no more, since the barrier cannot move from the squares it has been placed in). If the creature wins, it forces it's way through the barrier, causing it to disperse.

In either case the creature takes force damage equal to 1D6 +1/class level. The barrier is 10ft square, positioned as you please within Telekinesis range and requires 2 hands to maintain. You may maintain multiple barriers at once, so long as you have enough hands to create them.

Disrupting Throw(SU): At 15th level, as an immediate action, you may attempt an attack of opportunity against any opponent up to 5ft/class level away. They must have just taken an action which would provoke an attack of opportunity were you adjacent to them, but you need not be threatening the opponent. You may use your Force Blast ability, or any of the abilities you know through Far Trick. This counts towards your attacks of opportunity for the round.

Ghostly Hand(SU): At 17th level, your abilities become capable of affecting ethereal objects and enemies. Objects thrown using Force Blast must be ethereal to do so, but weapons wielded using Telekinetic Fighting are treated as being both corporeal and ethereal from now on.

Master of the far hand(EX): At 20th level, you have reached the pinnacle of your mental power. Reality becomes an illusion which you can bend like putty, and many of your abilities are enhanced as follows:

All your Telekinesis dependent abilities are now considered Extraordinary.

Your Disrupting Throw becomes a free action, still taking up an attack of opportunity per use. It may also be used anywhere within your Telekinesis range.

Your flight speed increases to 120ft.

You no longer take range penalties to your far tricks.

You count as using twice as many hands as you devote to Mental Strength for performing acts of manual dexterity.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

ACFs

Pure Telekineticist.

Replaces: Martial Skill, Telekinetic Fighting, Martial Weapon Proficiency, and Telekinetic Reach.

Benefit:You have as many 'hands' as you have levels. The range of your telekinesis increases to 20ft/level.


Unarmed Telekineticist

Replaces: Martial Skill, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Medium Armor Proficiency.

Benefit: You may generate weapons of pure force. These deal damage equal to the number of 'hands' invested in them times 1d6 force damage.
They get the Telekineticist's charisma modifier * .5 * the number of hands invested + 1 to damage. These are treated as weapons the Telekineticist is proficient with for all purposes.



Magic Items
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Miniature Boulder:
This item is very useful to a Telekineticist. It has the dimensions of a marble, and weighs much the same.
As a move action (or free action with the quick draw feat) the marble can be activated. After its activation, the marble can be made to weigh up to 500lb, always growing to a foot diameter sphere. another move action can reduce it back down to marble size.


My edits are all in there, anything I added I will specify. Otherwise I just fixed capitalization and minor wording things.

Removed the line in Abilities referring to INT since there is no in class mechanic using it.

Autohypnosis: Isn't that supposed to WIS based not CON?

Shields: Did you intend to imply that they are proficient with tower shields?

Telekinesis: I'm a little iffy on having the physical stats be replaced by 3 different stats. Would it be too overpowered to just make it all done by one of the mental stats? Probably not Cha since that is the main power of this class and it doesn't need more attention lol. Perhaps Wis as it is already the secondary? Also added a line at the end that said the focus is not expended, as I think that's what you meant...

Feat idea: more hands.

Force Blast: Solid, mostly. The part about using it for pure damage seems off. Is there a problem with making it ranged touch? It just seems more appropriate for the theme of the class and its effects are similar to those of a ray anyway. Also, since at lvl 20 it only deals 10d4 and gives a save it would usually be better to throw an object at someone. Also, assuming normal rules that this ability is capable of scoring a critical hit?

Feat idea: more weight.

Telekinetic Fighting: Cool. Actually makes a reasonable attacker. Although the limit to using it for Con rounds seems...small. That means that per combat he is really only useful for 2-5 rounds reasonably then again after 1d4 rounds of fatigue. Don't really know what would make it better or of it is even a problem since this ability is hard to judge without playtesting.

What happens if he staggers it some rounds on some rounds off? Does the time limit restart? Because as written it doesn't say. It actually is unspecific enough that it could be read that he can only do this once lol. I added a line that says per encounter to that part so it is clearer.

Since he is unable to use TWF during least and lesser, is it implied that he can use it in improved? Otherwise as written he can never use TWF or any other multi-weapon fighting feat.

Feat idea: every extra hand adds full cha to damage?

Telekinetic Reach: Isn't this just replaced by the Telekinetic Fighting Improved? If it is then maybe some other thing here? If not then, why is it in the fighting section at all?

Far Trick: I like. Would need to play test to find any flaws.

Mind's Eye: It says in the lvl 20 part that you can do it without a focus. Nowhere else is a focus mentioned. Remove or clarify that it is needed to use the ability at all. Also as a full round action to gain sight for 1 round until level 15 seems alot. Suggestion: Make it last for Wis modifier rounds or at level 10 move it down to move action so it can be done and you can do something else.

Martial Skill: Meh. Good ability, helps with weapon loadout. Balanced in my opinion but doesn't shine much. No problems, just commenting.

Telekinetic Flight: I like. However, it doesn't say what happens if you use the flight for the duration. Is that it for the day? Or do you become fatigued and then have to restart it?

I like the change from modifier to score at level 11.

At 13th level, does this mean it needs no hands? Or is it still assumed that all things need one hand? Just a clarity issue.

Feat idea: faster.

Focused Shield: Cool.
So you effectively have 4 5ft squares you can place?
Or is it just a 10ft thick block?
Do the barriers fill the entire square or are they just thin like a wall of force?
Can they have bends in them? Or are they always straight? I.E. can you put a bubble around yourself?
Can they be a dome like in the wall spells?

Also the damage is laughable at every level: 26 damage at level 20. Perhaps 1d6/level? So 20d6 at level 20 or max of 120.

Feat ideas: extra hands add extra volume, extra hands add extra damage.

Disrupting Throw: Cool.
Oh, and as to the discussion earlier of making the fighters life suck, you only provoke once for any given movement. So charging through 6 threatened squares only gives any attacker 1 AoO...so if he charges through a line of people he is screwed, if not only gets hit once.

Now if we had each weapon wielded be counted as a separate entity for AoO purposes, then I can see Telekineticists standing with a veritable swarm of swords in the direction of fighters just to make their lives suck.

Oh if someone has this and greater TK fighting, can they fling all of their weapons at this poor guy? Or only one at a time?

Also, another point, how far can you move the weapons you wield with TK per action? Anywhere in the range? Some other limit?

Ghostly Hand: Nice. The last sentence feels clunky, and might create some odd situation with interpretation later... how about "... weapons wielded using Telekinetic Fighting are able to affect ethereal creatures and objects as though they had the Ghost Touch ability, although they do not actually gain the enchantment."

Master of the far hand: Very nice capstone. First part: aren't all of the abilities gained in this class TK dependent? Therefore all TK class abilities become EX? Just a personal clarification.

ACFs:

Pure Telekineticist: I see no reason to take this. It means you have no real offensive power. Maybe with it, add something that improves the Force Blast ability? Or increase the amount of weight it can lift?
This basically has this effect: Sweet, I now have all these Hands to do things with! I have so much utility now! Wait, a monster? I'm gonna go hide behind the mage now...

Unarmed Telekineticist: This is very cool. I would love this. Just seems heavy on the hands. Maybe increase the hands to 1/2 levels? Also, might need some bonus to hit. Change the dmg bonus to a to hit? Or just give the same bonus to dmg and to hit.

Items:

Miniature Boulder: Love this. Cost? Or just something they have?

bobthe6th
2012-02-09, 06:15 PM
yes

I did intend that

eh... I liked the slight MAD. It lets the charicter to either pump one abilaty into the stratosphere or be balenced. I guess... it would clarify.

The idea is that you arn't throwing a bolt of pure force, but trying to explode your foe from the inside, so fort save. also, majorly intended for object breaking. yes it is, force blast is for when you don't have something better to throw, or your foe is moving to fast. unarmed strike vs weapon.

It should allow you to rest. I just didn't want the telekenetisist walking around with weapons up at all times.

I should clear that up.

that was the intent, will clarify.

will remove that bit from improved.

yep.

psionic focus, will clarify. also, blind sight. the stuff is crazy, and I don't think he can do anything else when he is fondling a 60ft radius for ninjas.

yep

should make it clearer that it is a refresh at the end of the use.

thanks

should clarify

should be a ten ft square pane. so two squares, and up two 5ft cubes.

thin wall

no, but you can build a nice shield with 6.

nope, but a ten ft cube is doable.

the damage was an add on. it should be laughable, more insult to injury really.

cool

that would be really a DM call.

hm... as now, I think they can't realy use any, unless they force blast them all.

not sure... I think you have to move them with mental strength 30ft round.

hmm... will think on this

yes, yes it does :smallamused:

chuck rocks at the monster, or pick it up. you have the free hands now...

will think about it...

not sure of a good price... was a bit unfinished.


and thanks for the PEACH! will get to editing soon.

DerTollUdo
2012-02-09, 07:43 PM
More discussion once you make the edits so I know what to speak on. I will also try to get my friend magikeeper to check it out and peach.
Any thoughts on the edits I made?

bobthe6th
2012-02-09, 08:29 PM
finishing some other work at the mo, but around 10 I should get to it.

DerTollUdo
2012-02-09, 08:46 PM
Oh, and since I just got through comparing the posts, I have a suggestion for you. When responding to the items, put what you are responding to lol. Had to put them up side by side to really grasp what you were saying. And reasons as to why some things you feel shouldn't be changed are helpful in PEACHing.

Still not a fan of needing many abilities.

As to force blast, the name should change if it is supposed to be ripping apart from the inside (although technically you don't have line of effect/sight to do so). And in the case of most spells/abilities they only allow for either a save, or an attack roll. Not both. Attack roll for damage and save for secondary effects, but not for just damage.

And would you really have enough hands to make 6 walls? at level 20 you have 7...2 per wall means 3 walls. Unless I missed something? I also feel that this class needs more hands in general...

Rephrase the walls to be 10ftx10ft panes. All confusion gone.

I feel it should have a non laughable damage. Really at that level it should be an extra benefit not something you just feel like not mentioning to the dm since it doesn't matter.

You also didn't comment on the level 13 flight comment.

bobthe6th
2012-02-09, 09:30 PM
I try to do so but with a full PEACH, the post hits ludicrous length fast.

its... um... I think some MAD should be in place. with a single score focus, things get out of hand fast. note sure though...

its a blast of force, it just happens to start in the foe. I will boost the damage though. probably add a fun rider... perhaps sickened?

yes... more hands my well be needed... not sure how I got 7, will look for my reasoning.

think I did that at one point, but it will be done.

They deal laugh able damage because they were to good for one hand with no damage, so at Verkilm's sugestion I made them 2 hands. they weren't quite good for two hands, so damage was added. not sure how to balence the two... Idea!

to quote: will clarify

DerTollUdo
2012-02-09, 10:20 PM
For the ability replacement parts, use wis. It is already needed for the duration of some other things, and this way it puts stat importance like so:
Charisma: basic class strength
Wisdom: duration of class abilities
Constitution: Survivability and combat prowess (with TK fighting)

Boosting some kind of damage and adding a rider would make it work as a normal ranged attack and damage + save to avoid rider. What are saves based on? Can't remember here lol.
For the rider I suggest staggered or nauseated. Thematically: after ripping apart the foe from the inside, they must regain their balance (staggered)/they find it hard to focus (nauseated) for 1 round non cumulative.

Maybe 1/2 class levels. Ends up with 11 hands total...hmm still can't make a force box without being a Pure Telekineticist...maybe for the best. Not sure where a fine line would be. Maybe make it 1/class level and give the PureTK 2/level? Will do more figuring later, other opinions welcome...

For Wall damage, yeah at one hand/wall the damage was fine laughable. At 2, with current number of hands, the 1d6/class level no save seems fine. Average of 70 points of damage just for touching the wall. I feel this is a decent number at 20...

bobthe6th
2012-02-09, 11:50 PM
will finish over haul tomarow afternoon.

Veklim
2012-02-10, 08:44 AM
The edits look good to me, trouble I had was condensing bob's prodigious ideas into workable english, very glad someone else has pitched in to help because this class could seriously rock with some TLC!


For Wall damage, yeah at one hand/wall the damage was fine laughable. At 2, with current number of hands, the 1d6/class level no save seems fine. Average of 70 points of damage just for touching the wall. I feel this is a decent number at 20...

The wall damage always bugged me a bit, but I figured as bob said, the damage was more insult than injury, a slap on the face for having the strength to push past at all. Your 2 hand workaround gives the best of both worlds though, choice of wall with a slap for defeating it, or a wall of solid pain, dependent on hand investment. I like the idea personally.

EDIT:
Just re-read your post, and it's not what I thought you were actually saying, but I will suggest this:
Invest 1 hand into a wall and you get a wall with 1D6 +1/class level damage to anyone who gets through.
Invest 2 hands and get a wall which deals 1D6 +1/class level damage to anyone interacting with it, and deals 1D6/class level damage to anyone who breaks through.
The barrier is dispersed by anything forcing through it so perhaps this is a valid 2 stage remix..?


Maybe 1/2 class levels. Ends up with 11 hands total...hmm still can't make a force box without being a Pure Telekineticist...maybe for the best. Not sure where a fine line would be. Maybe make it 1/class level and give the PureTK 2/level? Will do more figuring later, other opinions welcome...

At the moment, the limited hands work towards the Telekineticist's 'virtual action economy', which stops too many sustained effects from being held simultaneously. I did a bit of math back when I first started helping with the edit, and figured the number could go up by maybe 2 or 3 from a feat, but many more could actually get a bit silly. Since then a lot has been tweaked and changed though so I am honestly unsure as to how much you could actually do at any given level.
Either way, I feel 2/level for the Pure would be OK. So much of the combat capability is nerfed that the idea has nothing but merit. This way a Pure TK can throw out huge damage if they need to, but would be better equipped as utility casters than as blasters.

Veklim
2012-02-10, 09:16 AM
Look Ma, more hands!(General)
Requirements: Telekineticist 1st level only.
Benefit: For some reason, you have more hands than other Telekineticists, maybe you're just greedy like that...
You have extra hands equal to 1+1/5 HD in addition to the number listed on the Telekineticist class table.
Special: This feat may only be taken on your 1st character level.

DerTollUdo
2012-02-10, 01:04 PM
The edits look good to me, trouble I had was condensing bob's prodigious ideas into workable english, very glad someone else has pitched in to help because this class could seriously rock with some TLC!

Thanks :) I think the edits make the class more readable. Oh almost forgot I made this one, I 'changed' the Telekinetic Fighting into just one ability with multiple levels instead of Least Telekinetic Fighting into the higher ones because there was so much space being used for pure ACF just telling you what you lost. I made it just TK fighting with sub levels under it. Shouldn't be an issue but figured I would say I changed it. I also forgto to edit the capitalization in the table.




The wall damage always bugged me a bit, but I figured as bob said, the damage was more insult than injury, a slap on the face for having the strength to push past at all. Your 2 hand workaround gives the best of both worlds though, choice of wall with a slap for defeating it, or a wall of solid pain, dependent on hand investment. I like the idea personally.


EDIT:
Just re-read your post, and it's not what I thought you were actually saying, but I will suggest this:
Invest 1 hand into a wall and you get a wall with 1D6 +1/class level damage to anyone who gets through.
Invest 2 hands and get a wall which deals 1D6 +1/class level damage to anyone interacting with it, and deals 1D6/class level damage to anyone who breaks through.
The barrier is dispersed by anything forcing through it so perhaps this is a valid 2 stage remix..?

The way it is worded they take the damage even for attempting to pass your wall. I like it that way. Gives it some use so people don't just keep trying.

So what you are saying is this?

Focused Shield(SU):At 9th level you may create a barrier with one 'hand' of your Telekinesis as a move action. The barrier is a 10ft pane, positioned as you please within Telekinesis range. Any unattended objects or projectiles (including spells which require an attack roll) are instantly stopped and cannot pass through.

If a creature attempts to pass through, it suffers an immediate bullrush attack upon contact with the barrier, as if the barrier were a gargantuan creature with a Strength score equal to your Wisdom score. If the barrier wins the opposed check, the creature is pushed back 5ft (but no more, since the barrier cannot move from the squares it has been placed in). If the creature wins, it forces it's way through the barrier, causing it to disperse.

In either case the creature takes force damage equal to 1D6 +1/class level. However, if you invest a second 'hand' the damage moves to 1d6/class level. You may maintain multiple barriers at once, so long as you have enough hands to create them.


Also note, does this ability stop incorporeal/ethereal/astral creatures? Maybe make it possible with more hands? Not sure...
Another note, is this screen visible or invisible?



At the moment, the limited hands work towards the Telekineticist's 'virtual action economy', which stops too many sustained effects from being held simultaneously. I did a bit of math back when I first started helping with the edit, and figured the number could go up by maybe 2 or 3 from a feat, but many more could actually get a bit silly. Since then a lot has been tweaked and changed though so I am honestly unsure as to how much you could actually do at any given level.
Either way, I feel 2/level for the Pure would be OK. So much of the combat capability is nerfed that the idea has nothing but merit. This way a Pure TK can throw out huge damage if they need to, but would be better equipped as utility casters than as blasters.

Alright math time, with hands as stands:

Level 1+2: 1 hand.
Abilities: (This assumes that every ability requires 1 'hand' to use, even if not expressly stated as I feel that is the intent.)

TK Range: 10-20ft

Can lift 25 lbs casually. 50-150 lbs/level only with effort up to wis mod rounds then fatigued.


Can propel a weapon/object 10ft/level for up to 2d6/level for object (assuming heaviest object and shortest distance) or weapon damage + 1d6/level for weapons (assuming shortest distance).


Can wield a weapon at TK range using primary stat for dmg/to hit, standard action 1 strike. Weapons don't threaten adjacent squares.


Number of hands needed to maintain utility vs. combat 1.


Level 3+4+5: 2 hands.
Abilities:

TK range: 30-50ft

Can lift 50 lbs casually. 50-150 lbs/level only with effort up to wis mod rounds then fatigued.


Can propel a weapon/object 10ft/level for up to 2d6/level for object (assuming heaviest object and shortest distance) or weapon damage + 1d6/level for weapons (assuming shortest distance).


Can wield a weapon at TK range using primary stat for dmg/to hit, standard action 1 strike. Weapons threaten adjacent squares.


Can now perform Far Trick-break door/bullrush


Can see half of TK range with blindsight. Full round action.


Number of hands needed to maintain utility vs. combat 1.

Level 6+7+8: 3 Hands
Abilities:

Tk Range: 60-80ft

Can lift 75 lbs casually. 50-150 lbs/level only with effort up to wis mod rounds then fatigued.


Can propel a weapon/object 10ft/level for up to 2d6/level for object (assuming heaviest object and shortest distance) or weapon damage + 1d6/level for weapons (assuming shortest distance).


Can wield a weapon at TK range using primary stat for dmg/to hit, Full Attack 1 weapon only. Weapons threaten adjacent squares.


Can perform Far Trick-break door/bullrush, and disarm.


Can see half of TK range with blindsight. Full round action.


Can fly for wis mod rounds 30ft speed. Indefinite with 2 extra hands.


Number of hands needed to maintain utility vs. combat 2-4. Potential issue.

Level 9+10+11: 4 hands.
Abilities:

TK Range: 90-110ft.

Can lift 100 lbs casually. 50-150 lbs/level only with effort up to wis mod rounds then fatigued.


Can propel a weapon/object 10ft/level for up to 2d6/level for object (assuming heaviest object and shortest distance) or weapon damage + 1d6/level for weapons (assuming shortest distance).


Can wield a weapon at TK range using primary stat for dmg/to hit, Full Attack 1 weapon only. Weapons threaten adjacent squares.


Can perform Far Trick-break door/bullrush, and disarm.


Can see full TK range with blindsight. Full round action.


Can fly for wis score rounds 40ft speed. Indefinite with 1 extra hand.


Can create barriers for battlefield control or damage. 1 hand deals 1d6+1/level. 2 hands deal 1d6/level.


Number of hands needed to maintain utility vs. combat 2-4. Problem if you want more than 1 wall at a time.

Level 12+13+14: 5 Hands.
Abilities:
TK Range: 120-140ft.

Can lift 125 lbs casually. 50-150 lbs/level only with effort up to wis mod rounds then fatigued.


Can propel a weapon/object 10ft/level for up to 2d6/level for object (assuming heaviest object and shortest distance) or weapon damage + 1d6/level for weapons (assuming shortest distance).


Can wield a weapon at TK range using primary stat for dmg/to hit, Full Attack as many attack actions as you have i.e. TWF. May wield larger weapons at additional hand cost. Weapons threaten adjacent squares.


Can perform Far Trick-break door/bullrush, disarm, and trip.


Can see full TK range with blindsight. Full round action.


Can fly 60ft speed. Indefinite with 1 hand.


Can create barriers for battlefield control or damage. 1 hand deals 1d6+1/level. 2 hands deal 1d6/level.


Number of hands needed to maintain utility vs. combat 3-5. Problem if you want more than 1 wall at a time.

Level 15+16+17: 6 Hands.
Abilities:
TK Range: 150-170ft.

Can lift 150 lbs casually. 50-150 lbs/level only with effort up to wis mod rounds then fatigued.


Can propel a weapon/object 10ft/level for up to 2d6/level for object (assuming heaviest object and shortest distance) or weapon damage + 1d6/level for weapons (assuming shortest distance).


Can wield a weapon at TK range using primary stat for dmg/to hit, Standard action May strike with all weapons held at -1 penalty after first 1 roll. Or may Full Attack. May wield larger weapons at additional hand cost. Weapons threaten adjacent squares.


Can perform Far Trick-break door/bullrush, disarm, and trip. Max penalty reductions.


Can see full TK range with blindsight. 1 hand indefinite.


Can fly 60ft speed. Indefinite with 1 hand.


Can create barriers for battlefield control or damage. 1 hand deals 1d6+1/level. 2 hands deal 1d6/level.


Can take an immediate action AoO anywhere within half TK range as though you threatened. Can use Force Blast and Far Trick to do so.


Can affect incorporeal creatures/objects with TK wielded objects.


Number of hands needed to maintain utility vs. combat 7-8. Major issue.

Level 18+19+20: 7 Hands.
Abilities:
TK Range: 180-200ft.

Can lift 175 lbs casually. 50-150 lbs/level only with effort up to wis mod rounds then fatigued.


Can propel a weapon/object 10ft/level for up to 2d6/level for object (assuming heaviest object and shortest distance) or weapon damage + 1d6/level for weapons (assuming shortest distance).


Can wield a weapon at TK range using primary stat for dmg/to hit, Standard action May strike with all weapons held at -1 penalty after first 1 roll. Or may Full Attack. May wield larger weapons at additional hand cost. Weapons threaten adjacent squares.


Can perform Far Trick-break door/bullrush, disarm, and trip. No penalties for range.


Can see full TK range with blindsight. Indefinite at 0 hands.


Can fly 120ft speed. Indefinite with 1 hand.


Can create barriers for battlefield control or damage. 1 hand deals 1d6+1/level. 2 hands deal 1d6/level.


Can take an AoO anywhere within TK range as though you threatened. Can use Force Blast and Far Trick to do so.


Can affect incorporeal creatures/objects with TK wielded objects.


All abilities become EX



Number of hands needed to maintain utility vs. combat 5-8. Potential issue for multiple walls and Force Blasts. MANY more hands needed to make good use of Greater TK Fighting.




While doing the math I found another question. Can you use multiple hands during Force Blast? I.e. can you fling multiple giant rocks at people? Are the hands free to use after the blast or are they tied up for the round?

So hands are mostly ok...kinda. Really limited when trying to do multiple things at once. Would have to sacrifice mobilty/sight to maintain multiple walls or wield more weapons, or fling more things.
Suggestion: Have the capstone ability double number of hands granted by the class? Then you would see some, appropriately, scary level 20 Telekineticists. Pure TK users would be a force for sure.


Look Ma, more hands!(General)
Requirements: Telekineticist 1st level only.
Benefit: For some reason, you have more hands than others Telekineticists, maybe you're just greedy like that...
You have extra hands equal to 1+1/5 HD in addition to the number listed on the Telekineticist class table.
Special: This feat may only be taken on your 1st character level.

Careful with that saying HD instead of class levels. Low LA high HD creatures could then take this and be phenomenal at TK where the pure guy isn't. I would say have it be class levels.

Hmm. 5 extra hands for a feat. Seems useful. Is there any reason right now where a TK wouldn't take this? And can it be taken multiple times? You can get more than 1 feat at first level.

Veklim
2012-02-11, 05:21 AM
The re-write of focused shield looks pretty good actually, I feel it's slightly more balanced to the rest of the class, and gives weight to the credo 'The best offence is a good defence'. We'll see what bob thinks! :smallbiggrin:

Yeah, the maths on the hands is back to where it was when I first saw this, give or take a hand. I don't think there's an issue with them being stretched, how many classes do you know which can use all their class features simultaneously? As I said before, limiting the hands is the only reasonable way of limiting the actions/round ratio for these guys.

The feat should be TK class levels yes, I had already thought about that but forgot to edit! A Pure TK would not need the feat, a multiclassing TK would probably not find it essential since they'd not have the same dependency on them and they wouldn't be able to take it at all unless their first level was TK (in which case why bother multiclassing in the first place?!), so really it's an option for a standard, single class TK who wants more options. It scales nicely I think, but I wouldn't allow it to be taken multiple times, no. It's a big fat bonus to a class' core mechanic, see it like DragonWrought, or any of the Sorceror level 1 only feats, you either start your character with it, or you don't have it at all.

DerTollUdo
2012-02-11, 08:09 AM
The re-write of focused shield looks pretty good actually, I feel it's slightly more balanced to the rest of the class, and gives weight to the credo 'The best offence is a good defence'. We'll see what bob thinks! :smallbiggrin:


I like it more too. It really lets you choose whether you just want a wall or if you want a wall that discourages people from going through it. Thanks.


Yeah, the maths on the hands is back to where it was when I first saw this, give or take a hand. I don't think there's an issue with them being stretched, how many classes do you know which can use all their class features simultaneously? As I said before, limiting the hands is the only reasonable way of limiting the actions/round ratio for these guys.

The stretched part wasn't so much of can they use all of their abilities at one time as what I would consider someone of that level able to do with their class.

My math logic was basically this:

Once I can fly, I don't want to give up that mobility in or out of combat, but might sometimes toggle the indefinite part. Thus fly is basically always on.

When I can wield a weapon very far away, why shouldn't I? It gives AoO at its location and I can interrupt casters without focusing on them too highly. Still need to figure out how fast the weapons can move on any given round. Thus At least one weapon is always up, although having more up would mean I can cover more area. Just because I can only attack with one for a while doesn't mean I can't hold a sword to every bad guy for the threatened part.

Wasn't sure if the hands for Far Trick, Force Blast, and Disrupting Throw are only occupied at the time of their use or if they are occupied for the round till your next action. This needs clarification. I tended to keep one hand 'free' for purposes of say carrying some object with you, Disrupting Throw later, spontaneous need of blindsight next round, or some other unforseen need. That is why the numbers range and are not flat. Low end sacrifices the "just in case" hands, while the high ends were "if I had hands to do this, would I?"

I assumed that once you got blindsight to just needing a hand to maintain, you would. I mean, who wants to get jumped by ninjas?

Once you had walls, I assumed you always had one up in every combat, as I see no reason not to have one up. Although I never calculated them at the 2 hand improved damage method. That's why those levels all have the higher range to account for that and/or more walls.

But with all these maintaining things, you would have to stop all those, grab 7 swords, and then fling them all at one dude to make Greater TK Fighting close to useful. As currently figured, I only have the level 16-20 guy holding two swords assuming TWF...so really without more hands, that ability becomes...pretty to look at but not really used.

My suggestion was that at 20, the final ability replace it's last line that makes each hand count for double for purposes of manual dexterity with Mental Strength, with one that reads "The amount of hands granted from this class double." Then at level 20 he really becomes the master of TK. He wouldn't really need all those hands all the time, but it would make it possible to wall off the enemies, make it hurt, have enough weapons in the air to be terrifying, and still carry the party/enemies around the field.

Just remembered, I at no point factored carrying an enemy...


The feat should be TK class levels yes, I had already thought about that but forgot to edit! A Pure TK would not need the feat, a multiclassing TK would probably not find it essential since they'd not have the same dependency on them and they wouldn't be able to take it at all unless their first level was TK (in which case why bother multiclassing in the first place?!), so really it's an option for a standard, single class TK who wants more options. It scales nicely I think, but I wouldn't allow it to be taken multiple times, no. It's a big fat bonus to a class' core mechanic, see it like DragonWrought, or any of the Sorceror level 1 only feats, you either start your character with it, or you don't have it at all.

Pure TK wouldn't need if the bump was made to 2 hands/level, agreed. But without it, I would still be tempted to take it.
A multiclass one would find it useful sometimes, an extra hand means alot when you only have 1 otherwise (assuming low level).
Yeah this is definitely a class I see every level being useful.
But as it stands, I would take this feat, basically everytime I played a normal OR Unarmed TK. I realize we haven't really looked at that ACF much, but that is one I would seriously consider...
If only takeable once, it should say so, just to avoid any misconceptions.

Still need clarification about how many hands can be applied to one instance of force blast...i.e. I take my standard action, and fling 7 heavy rocks at you! (Potentially at level 20) Take 280d6! Also, is there a minimum of how far the rock must fly? Or can it be launched point blank for all potential damage?

Veklim
2012-02-11, 06:01 PM
The stretched part wasn't so much of can they use all of their abilities at one time as what I would consider someone of that level able to do with their class.

My math logic was basically this....
OK, that all checks out actually, so I have a suggestion (yes, another one!) for the hands. Put this at the top of the abilities section, right after Telekinesis:

Hands:(Su)
The Telekineticist has a limited number of hands equal to the number listed on the above table plus your Constitution bonus (so a level 1 Telekineticist with 15 Constitution would have 3 hands). Any hand which is used for a non-sustained ability is considered used until the start of your next turn.

This should negate the need for the changes you mentioned here:

My suggestion was that at 20, the final ability replace it's last line that makes each hand count for double for purposes of manual dexterity with Mental Strength, with one that reads "The amount of hands granted from this class double." Then at level 20 he really becomes the master of TK. He wouldn't really need all those hands all the time, but it would make it possible to wall off the enemies, make it hurt, have enough weapons in the air to be terrifying, and still carry the party/enemies around the field.
Should give you enough hands to do everything, but still have to think about it a fair bit. The feat I presented would thusly become less vital but still just as nice, and speaking of that feat...

If only takeable once, it should say so, just to avoid any misconceptions.

Look Ma, more hands!(General)
Requirements: Telekineticist 1st level only.
Benefit: For some reason, you have more hands than other Telekineticists, maybe you're just greedy like that...
You have extra hands equal to 1/5 Telekineticist levels (minimum of 1) in addition to the number listed on the Telekineticist class table.
Special: This feat may only be taken once and only at 1st character level.

I think that's better...


Still need clarification about how many hands can be applied to one instance of force blast...i.e. I take my standard action, and fling 7 heavy rocks at you! (Potentially at level 20) Take 280d6! Also, is there a minimum of how far the rock must fly? Or can it be launched point blank for all potential damage?
So perhaps an amendment to Force Blast replacing these bits...

As a standard action, the Telekineticist can launch an object within his telekinesis range, weighing no more than 25lb/level. The object travels up to 10ft/level and this movement may take it outside of your telekinesis range. The Telekineticist makes a standard ranged attack with the object, which deals bludgeoning or piercing damage...

...You may also focus this power as a blast of pure force. Doing so requires a standard ranged attack which deals 1d4/2 class levels force damage to one target within your telekinesis range. The target gets a fortitude save for half damage (this affects objects).

...with something like...

As a standard action, the Telekineticist can launch a number of objects within his telekinesis range equal to the number of available hands he wishes to use. Each object may weigh no more than 25lb/level. The object/s travel up to 10ft/level and this movement may take it outside of your telekinesis range. The Telekineticist makes a single standard ranged attack (in the case of multiple targets, this result is applied to each target seperately), with a -2 penalty for each object thrown beyond the first, which deals bludgeoning or piercing damage...

You may also focus this power as blasts of pure force. Doing so works just like throwing object/s, except it requires no projectile, deals 1D4/2 class levels force damage and only functions within your telekinesis range. The target gets a fortitude save for half damage (this affects objects).

I think that covers everything, hehehe!

Veklim
2012-02-12, 06:32 AM
1. If hands become listed bonus + con mod, then the Pure TK would be fine with 1/level, instead of bumping it to 2. I think it also fills in the blank with the maths so hopefully utility and combat can happen at the same time without you sucking!

2. Force Blast still has the attack roll AND save issue, so perhaps make it a save vs. nausea instead? Your insides are being forcefully re-arranged, I imagine you'd feel a little ill...

Thinking on what you said about etheral/incorporeal etc with the walls. I smell another feat coming...

DerTollUdo
2012-02-12, 05:21 PM
OK, that all checks out actually, so I have a suggestion (yes, another one!) for the hands. Put this at the top of the abilities section, right after Telekinesis:

Hands:(Su)
The Telekineticist has a limited number of hands equal to the number listed on the above table plus your Constitution bonus (so a level 1 Telekineticist with 15 Constitution would have 3 hands). Any hand which is used for a non-sustained ability is considered used until the start of your next turn.

I like that modification. It adds the ability to be very versatile without suffering for trying to do. I would say actually that this should be placed first in the class as it is the fundamental mechanic of the class. I also have been talking with some friends about this class and they have been poking some holes in it that I will address later...


This should negate the need for the changes you mentioned here:

Yeah it should...although the ability would still be really cool to get :P since that last line of the ability is something I would probably never really pay attention to...

Look Ma, more hands!(General)
Requirements: Telekineticist 1st level only.
Benefit: For some reason, you have more hands than other Telekineticists, maybe you're just greedy like that...
You have extra hands equal to 1/5 Telekineticist levels (minimum of 1) in addition to the number listed on The Telekineticist class table.
Special: This feat may only be taken once and only at 1st character level.

Much better.



So perhaps an amendment to Force Blast

You know, with all the changes proposed, I feel like rewording most of the earlier abilities. They have a lot of redundancy and misleading text. Perhaps I will undertake that later.



1. If hands become listed bonus + con mod, then the Pure TK would be fine with 1/level, instead of bumping it to 2. I think it also fills in the blank with the maths so hopefully utility and combat can happen at the same time without you sucking!

Agreed.


2. Force Blast still has the attack roll AND save issue, so perhaps make it a save vs. nausea instead? Your insides are being forcefully re-arranged, I imagine you'd feel a little ill...

I still feel like it should be a touch attack roll...why does the fighters plate mail stop you from wiggling his spline with your mind?
Oh and he said he was going to probably a secondary effect for the save. I say nausea or staggered are good.


Thinking on what you said about etheral/incorporeal etc with the walls. I smell another feat coming...

Well, another thing that was pointed out to me was that the class doesn't get ghost touch until 17. About 5 levels past being needed. So if we want that ability to stay there it should be stronger...perhaps if we made it so that all class abilities freely affected incorporeal/ethereal or all coterminous planes at that point it would be worth it?

Things pointed out: Does moving enemies with Mental Strength provoke AoOs? If not why not use it on our self and never provoke? Any of these class abilities provoke? Can we pick 2-3 class abilities and stick with them for all features? Why doesn't Cha replace all scores for TK since the spell does? For the TK fighting: since it is already done for the flight, can the number of rounds it can be sustained be bumped to stat SCORE rounds instead of mods when it gets higher? OR better yet, remove the duration as long as they weigh less then the casual load. Can hands use bows?

That's all I remember for now. If I remember more I'll post.

Veklim
2012-02-13, 06:47 AM
I would say actually that this should be placed first in the class as it is the fundamental mechanic of the class.
Makes sense I guess, there's not been a section explaining hands directly and that seemed wrong to me.


You know, with all the changes proposed, I feel like rewording most of the earlier abilities. They have a lot of redundancy and misleading text. Perhaps I will undertake that later.

Aye, that does seem to have become necessary now. Best to fix/rework the bits which need sorting, then compile once it's ready I think.


I still feel like it should be a touch attack roll...why does the fighters plate mail stop you from wiggling his spline with your mind?
Oh and he said he was going to probably a secondary effect for the save. I say nausea or staggered are good.

Ranged touch attack eh? I guess you're right actually, a standard ranged attack makes little sense.


Well, another thing that was pointed out to me was that the class doesn't get ghost touch until 17. About 5 levels past being needed. So if we want that ability to stay there it should be stronger...perhaps if we made it so that all class abilities freely affected incorporeal/ethereal or all coterminous planes at that point it would be worth it?
Then put ghost touch to level 12 and give it a boost at 17th to affect all coterminous planes. Job done! :smalltongue:


Things pointed out: Does moving enemies with Mental Strength provoke AoOs? If not why not use it on our self and never provoke? Any of these class abilities provoke? Can we pick 2-3 class abilities and stick with them for all features? Why doesn't Cha replace all scores for TK since the spell does? For the TK fighting: since it is already done for the flight, can the number of rounds it can be sustained be bumped to stat SCORE rounds instead of mods when it gets higher? OR better yet, remove the duration as long as they weigh less then the casual load. Can hands use bows?
Yes, it should provoke.
That needs some clarification, but they're all (Su) until 20th so follow as per SRD I guess.
Possibly, need to condense for the rewrite first.
Perhaps that would be better, shifting away from Int so it's a 3 stat class makes the MAD a little more reasonable. Also cuts down on the Telekinesis description.
Might make sense, we should check out the math again before that though!
If the load is negligable then it shouldn't have a duration at higher levels perhaps.
No, too fiddly and near impossible to aim. They can throw a fair distance already, what more do you want?! :smallwink:

DerTollUdo
2012-02-13, 03:31 PM
This is in need of PEACH. Just skip past the old comments.


Special thanks to VEKLIM for editing. It was a lot messier before.
Really, first time I got an editor, and the class is better for it...

So, I have tried to make blasters. They have all been kinda busy, and introduce too many new concepts. So going to try a different tact, something in line with an invoker.

The Telekineticist. A rather long name but oh well.

When the psionic talent begins to surface, they show odd signs. Some of these show it through the sudden movement of objects. Flying plates and tables mark a developing psion, yet some never grow out of it. These psions grow in power, standing up to psions in their own right as masters of psionic power.




Characteristics: The Telekineticist relies on its mind to create force affects. This can range from throwing a mass at a foe, throwing a foe, fighting with a weapon held with his mind, even to full power flight!

Alignment: The Telekineticist can be of any alignment. The power of the mind bares no alignment above others.

Religion: The Telekineticist favors gods of battle and psionics.

Races: Humans are drawn to this class like any other. Small races also enjoy this class, as it lets them use brains in place of brawn. Any mining race tends to have many Telekineticists since they aid in the mining process. All psionic races tend to favor this class like any other psionic class.

Other Classes: Martial classes tend to dislike The Telekineticist, as they seem too magical to be true martial. Magical classes enjoy The Telekineticist, as they seem to merely be imitating their own power.

Role: Can take on the role of a secondary tank, or perhaps stealth. But this class shines at battle field control. With numerous abilities for punishing foes unwilling to move as he wishes, and the ability to physically move foes into a formation of his choice, he can add some useful utility outside of combat while performing numerous tricks at a distance.

Game Rule Information:
Abilities:Charisma is very important, as it is the strength of The Telekineticist. Wisdom and Constitution allow The Telekineticist to maintain effects longer, and the Constitution helps The Telekineticist stay alive.

Alignment: Any

Hit Die: d8

The Telekineticist
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

1st|+1|+0|+0|+2| Telekinetic Hands, Mental Strength, Force Blast, Wild Talent

2nd|+2|+0|+0|+3| Telekinetic Fighting: Least

3rd|+3|+1|+1|+3|Telekinetic Reach

4th|+4|+1|+1|+4| Far Trick

5th|+5|+1|+1|+4| Martial Skill

6th|+6/+1|+2|+2|+5| Telekinetic Fighting: Lesser

7th|+7/+2|+2|+2|+5| Telekinetic Flight

8th|+8/+3|+2|+2|+6| Far Trick

9th|+9/+4|+3|+3|+6| Martial Skill, Focused Shield

10th|+10/+5|+3|+3|+7| Telekinetic Flight: Improved

11th|+11/+6/+1|+3|+3|+7| Telekinetic Fighting: Improved

12th|+12/+7/+2|+4|+4|+8| Far Trick, Ghostly Hand

13th|+13/+8/+3|+4|+4|+8| Telekinetic Flight: Greater

14th|+14/+9/+4|+4|+4|+9| Martial Skill

15th|+15/+10/+5|+5|+5|+9| Disrupting Throw

16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+5|+5|+10| Far Trick, Telekinetic Fighting: Greater

17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+5|+5|+10| Ghostly Hand

18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+6|+6|+11|

19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+6|+6|+11| Martial Skill

20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+6|+6|+12| Master Of The Unseen Hand
[/table]

Class Skills

The Telekineticist's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are; Auto Hypnosis(Con), Balance(Dex), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Escape artist(Dex), Knowledge (Psionics)(Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Slight of hand(Dex), Tumble(Dex), Use Psionic Device(Cha), and Psicraft (Int).

Skill Points at First Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

Proficiencies: A Telekineticist is proficient with all Simple weapons and one martial melee weapon of their choice. They are also proficient with light and medium armor, and all shields.

Telekinetic Hands(SU): The Telekineticist has limited capability with his power. This capability is known as Telekinetic Hands, or just Hands. The Telekineticist has a number of Hands equal to 1/3 class levels (minimum of 1) plus your Constitution modifier. These Hands have a range equal to 10ft/ class level.

If an ability that uses Hands requires a save, it has a DC of 10 + 1/2 class levels + charisma modifier. If they require a physical ability score (such as an opposed strength checks for a trip attempt), use the Charisma modifier instead. To use his Hands he must be psionically focused, although he does not expend his focus by doing so.

Any hand which is used for a non-sustained ability is considered used until the start of your next turn, and any hand used for a sustained ability is considered used until the ability is released.

Mental Strength(SU): The Telekineticist can move an object with his mind, or perform some act of manual dexterity at any distance within the range of his Hands a standard action. He may move up to 50lb/level at a rate of 30' per action, objects up to 100lb/level at a rate of 20' per action with one Hand or 30' with two Hands, and objects up to 150lb/level at a rate of 10' per action with one Hand, 20' with two Hands or 30' with three Hands. These movements are not limited in direction, but do have a limited duration. The Telekineticist can maintain pressure for up to wisdom modifier rounds, after that the object drops to the ground and the Telekineticist is fatigued for 1d4 rounds.

Creatures may be moved in this way, but they get a will save to negate the effects. Any movement from this ability provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. The Telekineticist may not use this ability on himself.

Objects weighing 25lb + 25lb/3 levels may be maintained without limit with one Hand. For two Hands, this becomes 25lb + 25lb/2 levels instead, and for three Hands this limit becomes 25lb + 25lb/level.

The Telekineticist can also perform a feat of manual dexterity anywhere within the maximum range of his powers. This manipulation is limited by the number of hands used. If you wish to do something which would require two physical hands to achieve (like tie a knot in some rope), then you must use at least 2 hands.

Force Blast(SU):As a standard action, the Telekineticist can launch a number of objects within the range of his Hands equal to the number of Hands he wishes to use. Each object may weigh no more than 25lb/level. The object(s) travel up to 10ft/level and this movement may take it outside of the Hands range.

The Telekineticist makes a single standard ranged attack (in the case of multiple targets, this result is applied to each target separately), with a -2 penalty for each object thrown beyond the first, which deals bludgeoning or piercing damage (DM's choice) depending on it's weight up to 1d6/25lb. Regardless of the item launched, you do not take a non-proficiency penalty for this attack. Weapons launched with this power deal bludgeoing damage according to their weight unless you are proficient with them, at which point you may deal normal weapon damage (and damage type) instead. The object or weapon deals an additional +1d6 damage for each 10ft of movement it had did not move when it stops.

You may also focus this ability in an attempt to rip the target apart from the inside. The Telekineticist makes a single standard ranged touch attack (in the case of multiple targets, this result is applied to each target separately), with a -2 penalty for each blast after the first. deals 1D4/2 class levels force damage and Nauseates. This ability only functions within the range of your Hands. The target gets a fortitude save to avoid being Nauseated. This ability effects objects.

Wild Talent: You gain the feat Wild Talent as a bonus feat.

Telekinetic Fighting(SU):

Least:
At 2nd level The Telekineticist may use Hands to wield weapons he is proficient with and fight within the range of his Hands. Any weapon wielded in this fashion may be moved up to 30ft in a round as a free action.

As a standard action, you may make a single melee attack with this weapon, using Charisma instead of Strength for the to hit and damage rolls. You only threaten squares within your physical reach, if the weapon is beyond this range it does not threaten on it's own. A two-handed weapon requires two Hands to use. Any weapon(s) held by your Hands may have additional Hands added to it, each increasing the damage by 1/2 charisma modifier.

The Telekineticist suffers -2 to hit and a -1 to damage for every 10ft increment between the weapon and The Telekineticist, to a maximum of the range of his Hands. He may maintain this effect for a number of rounds equal to his constitution modifier per encounter.

Lesser:
At 6th level you may make a full attack with the weapon(s) you are wielding with Telekinetic Fighting. You may not make more attacks than you could with a single weapon, even if you have the Two Weapon Fighting or Multi-Attack feats, but you may spread your iterative attacks between weapons at no penalty, although the range penalty still applies. You may now hold a light or heavy shield with one Hand or a tower shield in two Hands.

The duration you may maintain this effect is increased to you Constitution Score.

Improved:
You may now make as many attacks as you are capable of, including Two Weapon Fighting or Multi-Attack. You may wield a weapon of a larger size category than you normally could for your size. For every size category larger than normal, the weapon requires an additional Hand to wield, these Hands do not add extra damage, but you may add further Hands to do so.

The duration you may maintain this effect is removed.

Greater:
At 16th level you no longer take the -2 to hit and -1 to damage for every 10ft between you and your weapon, but you are still limited to the range of your Hands. Also, as a standard action you may attack once with each weapon weilded by your Telekinetic Fighting. This is done with a single attack roll at your highest attack bonus, but takes a penalty to hit equal to the number of weapons being weilded -1.

Telekinetic Reach(SU): At third level, any weapon you are wielding with your Telekinetic Fighting threatens adjacent squares as normal for a weapon of it's type. If the weapon has the reach quality then calculate accordingly.

Far Trick(SU):Starting at 4th lvl when your powers start to mature, you gain the ability to make specific types of attacks within the range of your Hands. These work as normal except Charisma is used instead of any physical score, and your size bonus (or penalty) does not apply to these checks.

Each ability receives a penalty of -1/10ft away from the target you are. Each ability requires one hand to activate.

At 4th level you may attempt to break down a door or bullrush an opponent.

At 8th level you may attempt disarm attempts against foes. The penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/20ft.

At 12th level you may attempt trip attempts against foes. The penalty for disarming is reduced to -1/20ft, and the penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/40ft.

At 16th level you may attempt to grapple foes. The penalty for tripping is reduced to -1/20ft, the penalty for disarming is reduced to -1/40ft, and the penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/80ft.

Minds eye(SU): At 5th level, as a full round action you may gain blind sight out to half your telekinesis range until the start of your next turn. You must be psionically focused to do this.

At 10th level this increases to full telekinesis range.

At 15th level you may maintain this ability indefinitely with one hand.

At 20th level this ability is always active (even when you are not psionically focused).

Martial Skill (EX): You may not be a fighter, but you understand weapons of war.

At 5th level you gain two additional martial weapon proficiencies of your choice.

At 9th level you gain two more additional martial weapon proficiencies of your choice.

At 14th level you gain one additional martial weapon proficiency and one additional exotic weapon proficiency of your choice.

At 19th level you gain two additional exotic weapon proficiencies of your choice.

Telekinetic Flight(SU): You have finally mastered moving yourself using your Hands. One Hand is used to initiate and sustain flight. If you reach the duration of the ability, you become fatigued for 1d4 rounds.

At 7th level, you may fly at a speed of 30ft with perfect maneuverability for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom modifier. You may keep this flight up indefinitely by using two additional hands.

At 11th level, your fly speed increases to 40ft and you may stay aloft for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom score. You only need one hand to keep this up indefinitely.

At 13th level, your fly speed increases to 60ft and may be used without limit.

Focused Shield(SU):At 9th level you may create a barrier with your Telekinesis as a move action. Any unattended objects or projectiles (including spells which require an attack roll) are instantly stopped and cannot pass through. If a creature attempts to pass through, it suffers an immediate bullrush attack upon contact with the barrier, as if the barrier were a gargantuan creature with a Strength score equal to your Wisdom score. If the barrier wins the opposed check, the creature is pushed back 5ft (but no more, since the barrier cannot move from the squares it has been placed in). If the creature wins, it forces it's way through the barrier, causing it to disperse.

In either case the creature takes force damage equal to 1D6 +1/ class level. The barrier is a 10ft pane, positioned as you please within Telekinesis range and requires 1 Hand to maintain. You may maintain multiple barriers at once, so long as you have enough hands to create them.

You may invest 1 more Hand to increase the damage dealt to 1D6/ class level

Ghostly Hand(SU): At 12th level, your abilities become capable of affecting ethereal objects and enemies. Objects thrown using Force Blast must be ethereal to do so, but weapons wielded using Telekinetic Fighting are treated as being both corporeal and ethereal from now on.

At 17th level all your abilities can effect coterminous planes.

Disrupting Throw(SU): At 15th level, as an immediate action, you may attempt an attack of opportunity against any opponent up to 5ft/class level away. They must have just taken an action which would provoke an attack of opportunity were you adjacent to them, but you need not be threatening the opponent. You may use your Force Blast ability, or any of the abilities you know through Far Trick. This counts towards your attacks of opportunity for the round.

Master Of The Far Hand(EX): At 20th level, you have reached the pinnacle of your mental power. Reality becomes an illusion which you can bend like putty, and many of your abilities are enhanced as follows:

All your Telekinesis dependent abilities are now considered Extraordinary.

Your Disrupting Throw becomes a free action, still taking up an attack of opportunity per use. It may also be used anywhere within your Telekinesis range.

Your flight speed increases to 120ft.

You no longer take range penalties to your far tricks.

You count as using twice as many hands as you devote to Mental Strength for performing acts of manual dexterity.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

ACFs

Pure Telekineticist.

Replaces: Martial Skill, Telekinetic Fighting, Martial Weapon Proficiency, and Telekinetic Reach.

Benefit:You have as many 'hands' as you have levels. The range of your telekinesis increases to 20ft/level.


Unarmed Telekineticist

Replaces: Martial Skill, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Medium Armor Proficiency.

Benefit: You may generate weapons of pure force. These deal damage equal to the number of 'hands' invested in them times 1d6 force damage.
They get the Telekineticist's charisma modifier * .5 * the number of hands invested + 1 to damage. These are treated as weapons the Telekineticist is proficient with for all purposes.



Magic Items
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Miniature Boulder:
This item is very useful to a Telekineticist. It has the dimensions of a marble, and weighs much the same.
As a move action (or free action with the quick draw feat) the marble can be activated. After its activation, the marble can be made to weigh up to 500lb, always growing to a foot diameter sphere. another move action can reduce it back down to marble size.


Ok, This is my rework of the class.
I do not mean to step on your toes Bob. I am simply making some suggestions. This is mostly for clarification and balance. This is your brainchild, we are just checking on it while you are away :)
This includes our suggestions. PEACH welcome :)

bobthe6th
2012-02-13, 04:16 PM
And that, that is why I brew on GITPG.

I have read the discution, but I won't be able to properly respond for a bit(as in maybe wensday ish, looking tword Friday.

But still muchos gracias for the PEACH and discution.

Veklim
2012-02-13, 06:00 PM
Sweetness, let's just tidy up the last few loose strands, I'll put suggested edits in bold.


Telekinetic Hands(SU):
*snip*

All looks good to me, certainly makes this a simpler class to read through now.

Mental Strength(SU): The Telekineticist can move an object with his mind, or perform some act of manual dexterity at any distance within the range of his Hands as a standard action. He may move up to 50lb/level at a rate of 30' per action, objects up to 100lb/level at a rate of 20' per action with one Hand or 30' with two Hands, and objects up to 150lb/level at a rate of 10' per action with one Hand, 20' with two Hands or 30' with three Hands. These movements are not limited in direction, but do have a limited duration. The Telekineticist can maintain pressure for up to wisdom modifier rounds, after that the object drops to the ground and the Telekineticist is fatigued for 1d4 rounds. You may not initiate this ability if you are fatigued.
*snip*

The Telekineticist can also perform a feat of manual dexterity anywhere within the maximum range of his powers. This manipulation is limited by the number of hands used. If you wish to do something which would require two physical hands to achieve (like tie a knot in some rope), then you must use at least 2 hands. No additional effect is had by using more Hands than necessary for any given action.

Force Blast(SU):As a standard action, the Telekineticist can launch a number of objects within the range of his Hands equal to the number of Hands he wishes to use. Each object may weigh no more than 25lb/level, and requires the use of a single Hand/object. The object(s) travel up to 10ft/level and this movement may take it outside of the Hands range.

The Telekineticist makes a single standard ranged attack (in the case of multiple targets, this result is applied to each target separately), with a -2 penalty for each object thrown beyond the first,. Each object which deals bludgeoning or piercing damage (DM's choice) depending on it's weight up to 1d6/25lb. Regardless of the item launched, you do not take a non-proficiency penalty for this attack. Weapons launched with this power deal bludgeoing damage according to their weight unless you are proficient with them, at which point you may deal normal weapon damage (and damage type) instead. The object or weapon deals an additional +1d6 damage for each full 10ft of movement it had did not moveremaining when it stop****s. The critical threat of weapons used this way is always 20/x2, only one roll need be made to confirm all attacks made with a single use of Force Blast. Any enchantments or abilities the weapon/s may have are applied individually, except the keen enchantment, or any similar ability involving critical threat ranges. A flaming burst weapon would always consider it's threat range as 20/x2.

You may also focus this ability in an attempt to rip the target apart from the inside. The Telekineticist makes a single standard ranged touch attack (in the case of multiple targets, this result is applied to each target separately), with a -2 penalty for each blast after the first. This attack deals 1D4/2 class levels force damage and Nauseatesthe target must succeed on a fortitude save or be nauseated for 1D4 rounds. This ability only functions within the range of your Hands. The target gets a fortitude save to avoid being Nauseated. This ability effects objects.
*snip*

Telekinetic Fighting(SU):

Least:
At 2nd level The Telekineticist may use Hands to wield weapons he is proficient with and fight within the range of his Hands. Any weapon wielded in this fashion may be moved up to 30ft in a round as a free action.

As a standard action, you may make a single melee attack with this one such weapon, using Charisma instead of Strength for the to hit and damage rolls. You only threaten squares within your physical reach, if the weapon is beyond this range it does not threaten on it's own. A one-handed or smaller weapon requires one Hand and a two-handed weapon requires two Hands to use. Any weapon(s) held by your Hands may have additional Hands added to it, each increasing the damage by 1/2 charisma modifier.
*snip*

Lesser:
At 6th level you may make a full attack with the weapon(s) you are wielding with Telekinetic Fighting. You may not make more attacks than you could with a single weapon, even if you have the Two Weapon Fighting or Multi-Attack feats, but you may spread your iterative attacks between weapons at no penalty, although the range penalty still applies. You may now hold a light or heavy shield with one Hand or a tower shield in two Hands. Such a shield may occupy any square including your own or those of your allies (but not an enemy's) and confers on anyone in that square the shield's AC bonus as a shield bonus to their own AC.
*snip*

Greater:
At 16th level you no longer take the -2 to hit and -1 to damage for every 10ft between you and your weapon, but you are still limited to the range of your Hands. Also, as a standardfull round action you may attack once with each weapon weilded by your Telekinetic Fighting. This is done with a single attack roll at your highest attack bonus, but takes a penalty to hit equal to the number of weapons being weilded -1.

Telekinetic Reach(SU): At third level, any weapon you are wielding with your Telekinetic Fighting threatens adjacent squares as normal for a weapon of it's type. If the weapon has the reach quality then calculate accordingly.

Far Trick(SU):Starting at 4th lvl when your powers start to mature, you gain the ability to make specific types of attacks within the range of your Hands. These work as normal except Charisma is used instead of any physical score, and your size bonus (or penalty) does not apply to these checks.

Each ability initially receives a penalty of -1/10ft away from the target you are. Each ability requires one hand to activate.
*snip*

Minds eye(SU): At 5th level, as a full round action you may gain blind sight out to half your telekinesis range until the startend of your next turn. You must be psionically focused to do this.

At 10th level this increases to full telekinesis range.

At 15th level you may maintain this ability indefinitely with one hand.

At 20th level this ability no longer requires a Hand to maintain and is always active (even when you are not psionically focused).
*snip*

Telekinetic Flight(SU): You have finally mastered moving yourself using your Hands. One Hand is usedrequired to initiate and sustain flight. If you reach the duration of the ability, you immediately descend directly downwards at a rate equal to the fly speed (taking falling damage if you fail to reach solid ground in this distance) and become fatigued for 1d4 rounds. You may not initiate this ability if you are fatigued

At 7th level, you may fly at a speed of 30ft with perfect maneuverability for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom modifier. You may keep this flight up indefinitely by using two additionalthree Hands.

At 11th level, your fly speed increases to 40ft and you may stay aloft for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom score. You only need one handtwo Hands to keep this up indefinitely.

At 13th level, your fly speed increases to 60ft and may be used without limitsustained indefinitely with only one Hand.

Focused Shield(SU):At 9th level you may create a barrier with your TelekinesisHands as a move action. Any unattended objects or projectiles (including spells which require an attack roll) are instantly stopped and cannot pass through. If a creature attempts to pass through, it suffers an immediate bullrush attack upon contact with the barrier, as if the barrier were a gargantuan creature with a Strength score equal to your WisdomCharisma score. If the barrier wins the opposed check, the creature is pushed back 5ft (but no more, since the barrier cannot move from the squares it has been placed in). If the creature wins, it forces it's way through the barrier, causing it to disperse.

In either case the creature takes force damage equal to 1D6 +1/ class level. The barrier is a 10ft pane, positioned as you please within Telekinesis range and requires 1 Hand to maintain. You may create and maintain multiple barriers at once, any number of barriers may be set as part of the same move action so long as you have enough hands free to create them.

You may invest 1 more Hand per barrier to increase the damage dealt by that barrier to 1D6/ class level

Much better now, figured it should run off Charisma to bring it in line with Far Trick.

Ghostly Hand(SU):
*snip*
At 17th level all your abilities can effect [B]creatures and objects from any coterminous planes.

Just to clarify!
*snip*

Veklim
2012-02-13, 06:09 PM
Oh, Bob, you might wanna give DerTollUdo an edit credit as well, since he's done a lot in the last few days!

On a related note, perhaps we should hire ourselves out as editors?! :smalltongue:

Also, since I noticed the critical problem on Force Blast, I thought about this to compensate for the flatline tweak I made to that ability.

Critical Thinking:(Ex)
At 18th level, when using Force Blast to throw weapons, the Telekineticist may use the critical threat range and multiplier (as well as any critical related enchantments) of each individual weapon he is proficient with instead of a flatline 20/x2 (weapons with which he is not proficient remain at 20/x2). Each weapon is checked for a critical threat on the attack roll seperately. Roll once to confirm, and apply this roll to each weapon which threatened to determine your criticals.

DerTollUdo
2012-02-14, 11:38 AM
I'll add those in later. Good catches :)

But for Greater TK fighting, I liked the standard action bombard. Its one attack roll with penalties per weapon. I would rarely chose to do it unless I had a truly absurd amount of weapons if it became full attack action. I don't think it's too powerful as standard. But instead feel it is just enough...

As for Critical thinking, I like it. I suggest have it be multiple stages.

First is at level 3 where weapons wielded in TK fighting get their crit range (add a line in TK Fighting that says they don't get it at first maybe).

Then at 11 weapons wielded get the bonus of being treated as though you had Improved Critical, you do not get the feat and the effects do not stack with other sources of critical range improvement (or however that is worded).

Finally at 18 all weapons wielded with TK Hands, weather for TK Fighting, Force Blast, or any other ability get their threat range and are treated as though you had Improved Critical.

How's that?

Veklim
2012-02-14, 06:14 PM
Hrmmm, with regards to the Greater TK Fighting, you are perhaps right. Leave it as-is for now, it may need a nerf after playtesting though!

As for Critical Thinking, I was only suggesting it to finish fixing the Force Blast problem, I'd leave TK Fighting as it is right now since it looks balanced enough without nerfing it. Force Blast doesn't gain any improvements at all after you first gain it though, hence the new ability to give it a little something extra.

The idea of tweaking/expanding Critical Thinking isn't a bad one though, if we were to pull it back to 11th level we could advance it at 18th like so...
At 18th level we would have Enhanced Critical Thinking, which gives the Imp.Crit bonus to any and all weapons with which you're proficient used with Force Blast and TK Fighting, and weapons you're not proficient with gain their normal critical threat range for Force Blast use.
It should work nicely enough I dare say. We don't need to grade it too much because the ability already scales on account of the 'Hand economy' present.

DerTollUdo
2012-02-15, 11:12 PM
Sounds good to me. I'll do some posting tomorrowish lol. Trying to wait for Bob so he can have a say before we just add abilities you know?

Veklim
2012-02-16, 03:25 AM
Yes indeed! That's always the trouble when it's someone else's brainchild...

DerTollUdo
2012-02-20, 02:03 PM
This is in need of PEACH. Just skip past the old comments.


Special thanks to VEKLIM for editing. It was a lot messier before.
Really, first time I got an editor, and the class is better for it...

So, I have tried to make blasters. They have all been kinda busy, and introduce too many new concepts. So going to try a different tact, something in line with an invoker.

The Telekineticist. A rather long name but oh well.

When the psionic talent begins to surface, they show odd signs. Some of these show it through the sudden movement of objects. Flying plates and tables mark a developing psion, yet some never grow out of it. These psions grow in power, standing up to psions in their own right as masters of psionic power.




Characteristics: The Telekineticist relies on its mind to create force affects. This can range from throwing a mass at a foe, throwing a foe, fighting with a weapon held with his mind, even to full power flight!

Alignment: The Telekineticist can be of any alignment. The power of the mind bares no alignment above others.

Religion: The Telekineticist favors gods of battle and psionics.

Races: Humans are drawn to this class like any other. Small races also enjoy this class, as it lets them use brains in place of brawn. Any mining race tends to have many Telekineticists since they aid in the mining process. All psionic races tend to favor this class like any other psionic class.

Other Classes: Martial classes tend to dislike The Telekineticist, as they seem too magical to be true martial. Magical classes enjoy The Telekineticist, as they seem to merely be imitating their own power.

Role: Can take on the role of a secondary tank, or perhaps stealth. But this class shines at battle field control. With numerous abilities for punishing foes unwilling to move as he wishes, and the ability to physically move foes into a formation of his choice, he can add some useful utility outside of combat while performing numerous tricks at a distance.

Game Rule Information:
Abilities:Charisma is very important, as it is the strength of The Telekineticist. Wisdom and Constitution allow The Telekineticist to maintain effects longer, and the Constitution helps The Telekineticist stay alive.

Alignment: Any

Hit Die: d8

The Telekineticist
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

1st|+1|+0|+0|+2| Telekinetic Hands, Mental Strength, Force Blast, Wild Talent

2nd|+2|+0|+0|+3| Telekinetic Fighting: Least

3rd|+3|+1|+1|+3|Telekinetic Reach

4th|+4|+1|+1|+4| Far Trick

5th|+5|+1|+1|+4| Martial Skill

6th|+6/+1|+2|+2|+5| Telekinetic Fighting: Lesser

7th|+7/+2|+2|+2|+5| Telekinetic Flight

8th|+8/+3|+2|+2|+6| Far Trick

9th|+9/+4|+3|+3|+6| Martial Skill, Focused Shield

10th|+10/+5|+3|+3|+7| Telekinetic Flight: Improved

11th|+11/+6/+1|+3|+3|+7| Telekinetic Fighting: Improved, Critical Thinking

12th|+12/+7/+2|+4|+4|+8| Far Trick, Ghostly Hand

13th|+13/+8/+3|+4|+4|+8| Telekinetic Flight: Greater

14th|+14/+9/+4|+4|+4|+9| Martial Skill

15th|+15/+10/+5|+5|+5|+9| Disrupting Throw

16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+5|+5|+10| Far Trick, Telekinetic Fighting: Greater

17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+5|+5|+10| Ghostly Hand

18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+6|+6|+11| Critical Thinking

19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+6|+6|+11| Martial Skill

20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+6|+6|+12| Master Of The Unseen Hand
[/table]

Class Skills

The Telekineticist's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are; Auto Hypnosis(Con), Balance(Dex), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Escape artist(Dex), Knowledge (Psionics)(Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Slight of hand(Dex), Tumble(Dex), Use Psionic Device(Cha), and Psicraft (Int).

Skill Points at First Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

Proficiencies: A Telekineticist is proficient with all Simple weapons and one martial melee weapon of their choice. They are also proficient with light and medium armor, and all shields.

Telekinetic Hands(SU): The Telekineticist has limited capability with his power. This capability is known as Telekinetic Hands, or just Hands. The Telekineticist has a number of Hands equal to 1/3 class levels (minimum of 1) plus your Constitution modifier. These Hands have a range equal to 10ft/ class level.

If an ability that uses Hands requires a save, it has a DC of 10 + 1/2 class levels + charisma modifier. If they require a physical ability score (such as an opposed strength checks for a trip attempt), use the Charisma modifier instead. To use his Hands he must be psionically focused, although he does not expend his focus by doing so.

Any hand which is used for a non-sustained ability is considered used until the start of your next turn, and any hand used for a sustained ability is considered used until the ability is released.

Mental Strength(SU): The Telekineticist can move an object with his mind, or perform some act of manual dexterity at any distance within the range of his Hands as a standard action. He may move up to 50lb/level at a rate of 30' per action, objects up to 100lb/level at a rate of 20' per action with one Hand or 30' with two Hands, and objects up to 150lb/level at a rate of 10' per action with one Hand, 20' with two Hands or 30' with three Hands. These movements are not limited in direction, but do have a limited duration. The Telekineticist can maintain pressure for up to wisdom modifier rounds, after that the object drops to the ground and the Telekineticist is fatigued for 1d4 rounds. You may not initiate this ability if you are fatigued.

Creatures may be moved in this way, but they get a will save to negate the effects. Any movement from this ability provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. The Telekineticist may not use this ability on himself.

Objects weighing 25lb + 25lb/3 levels may be maintained without limit with one Hand. For two Hands, this becomes 25lb + 25lb/2 levels instead, and for three Hands this limit becomes 25lb + 25lb/level.

The Telekineticist can also perform a feat of manual dexterity anywhere within the maximum range of his powers. This manipulation is limited by the number of hands used. If you wish to do something which would require two physical hands to achieve (like tie a knot in some rope), then you must use at least 2 hands. No additional effect is had by using more Hands than necessary for any given action.

Force Blast(SU):As a standard action, the Telekineticist can launch a number of objects within the range of his Hands. Each object may weigh no more than 25lb/level, and requires the use of a single Hand/object. The object(s) travel up to 10ft/level and this movement may take it outside of the Hands range.

The Telekineticist makes a single standard ranged attack (in the case of multiple targets, this result is applied to each target separately), with a -2 penalty for each object thrown beyond the first. Each object deals bludgeoning or piercing damage (DM's choice) depending on it's weight up to 1d6/25lb. Regardless of the item launched, you do not take a non-proficiency penalty for this attack. Weapons launched with this power deal bludgeoning damage according to their weight unless you are proficient with them, at which point you may deal normal weapon damage (and damage type) instead. The object or weapon deals an additional +1d6 damage for each full 10ft of movement it had remaining when it hits. The critical threat of weapons used this way is 20/x2, only one roll need be made to confirm all attacks and criticals made with a single use of Force Blast. Any enchantments or abilities the weapon/s may have are applied individually. The keen enchantment, or any similar ability involving critical threat ranges does not apply. A flaming burst weapon would always consider it's threat range as 20/x2.

You may also focus this ability in an attempt to rip the target apart from the inside. The Telekineticist makes a single standard ranged touch attack (in the case of multiple targets, this result is applied to each target separately), with a -2 penalty for each blast after the first. This attack deals 1D4/2 class levels force damage and the target must succeed on a fortitude save or be nauseated for 1D4 rounds. This ability only functions within the range of your Hands. This ability effects objects.

Wild Talent: You gain the feat Wild Talent as a bonus feat.

Telekinetic Fighting(SU):

Least:
At 2nd level The Telekineticist may use Hands to wield weapons he is proficient with and fight within the range of his Hands. Any weapon wielded in this fashion may be moved up to 30ft in a round as a free action.

As a standard action, you may make a single melee attack with one such weapon, using Charisma instead of Strength for the to hit and damage rolls. You only threaten squares within your physical reach, if the weapon is beyond this range it does not threaten on it's own. A one-handed or smaller weapon requires one Hand and a two-handed weapon requires two Hands to use. Any weapon(s) held by your Hands may have additional Hands added to it, each increasing the damage by 1/2 charisma modifier.

The Telekineticist suffers -2 to hit and a -1 to damage for every 10ft increment between the weapon and The Telekineticist, to a maximum of the range of his Hands. He may maintain this effect for a number of rounds equal to his constitution modifier per encounter.

Lesser:
At 6th level you may make a full attack with the weapon(s) you are wielding with Telekinetic Fighting. You may not make more attacks than you could with a single weapon, even if you have the Two Weapon Fighting or Multi-Attack feats, but you may spread your iterative attacks between weapons at no penalty, although the range penalty still applies. You may now hold a light or heavy shield with one Hand or a tower shield in two Hands. Such a shield may occupy any square including your own or those of your allies (but not an enemy's) and confers on anyone in that square the shield's AC bonus as a shield bonus to their own AC.

The duration you may maintain this effect is increased to you Constitution Score.

Improved:
You may now make as many attacks as you are capable of, including Two Weapon Fighting or Multi-Attack. You may wield a weapon of a larger size category than you normally could for your size. For every size category larger than normal, the weapon requires an additional Hand to wield, these Hands do not add extra damage, but you may add further Hands to do so.

The duration you may maintain this effect is removed.

Greater:
At 16th level you no longer take the -2 to hit and -1 to damage for every 10ft between you and your weapon, but you are still limited to the range of your Hands. Also, as a standard action you may attack once with each weapon weilded by your Telekinetic Fighting. This is done with a single attack roll at your highest attack bonus, but takes a penalty to hit equal to the number of weapons being weilded -1.

Telekinetic Reach(SU): At third level, any weapon you are wielding with your Telekinetic Fighting threatens adjacent squares as normal for a weapon of it's type. If the weapon has the reach quality then calculate accordingly.

Far Trick(SU):Starting at 4th lvl when your powers start to mature, you gain the ability to make specific types of attacks within the range of your Hands. These work as normal except Charisma is used instead of any physical score, and your size bonus (or penalty) does not apply to these checks.

Each ability initially receives a penalty of -1/10ft away from the target you are. Each ability requires one hand to activate.

At 4th level you may attempt to break down a door or bullrush an opponent.

At 8th level you may attempt disarm attempts against foes. The penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/20ft.

At 12th level you may attempt trip attempts against foes. The penalty for disarming is reduced to -1/20ft, and the penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/40ft.

At 16th level you may attempt to grapple foes. The penalty for tripping is reduced to -1/20ft, the penalty for disarming is reduced to -1/40ft, and the penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/80ft.

Minds eye(SU): At 5th level, as a full round action you may gain blind sight out to half your telekinesis range until the end of your next turn. You must be psionically focused to do this.

At 10th level this increases to full telekinesis range.

At 15th level you may maintain this ability indefinitely with one hand.

At 20th level this ability no longer requires a Hand to maintain and is always active (even when you are not psionically focused).

Martial Skill (EX): You may not be a fighter, but you understand weapons of war.

At 5th level you gain two additional martial weapon proficiencies of your choice.

At 9th level you gain two more additional martial weapon proficiencies of your choice.

At 14th level you gain one additional martial weapon proficiency and one additional exotic weapon proficiency of your choice.

At 19th level you gain two additional exotic weapon proficiencies of your choice.

Telekinetic Flight(SU): You have finally mastered moving yourself using your Hands. One Hand is required to initiate and sustain flight. If you reach the duration of the ability, you immediately descend directly downwards at a rate equal to the fly speed (taking falling damage if you fail to reach solid ground in this distance) and become fatigued for 1d4 rounds. You may not initiate this ability if you are fatigued

At 7th level, you may fly at a speed of 30ft with perfect maneuverability for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom modifier. You may keep this flight up indefinitely by using three hands.

At 11th level, your fly speed increases to 40ft and you may stay aloft for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom score. You only need two to keep this up indefinitely.

At 13th level, your fly speed increases to 60ft and may be sustained indefinitely with only one Hand.

Focused Shield(SU):At 9th level you may create a barrier with your Hands as a move action. Any unattended objects or projectiles (including spells which require an attack roll) are instantly stopped and cannot pass through. If a creature attempts to pass through, it suffers an immediate bullrush attack upon contact with the barrier, as if the barrier were a gargantuan creature with a Strength score equal to your Charisma score. If the barrier wins the opposed check, the creature is pushed back 5ft (but no more, since the barrier cannot move from the squares it has been placed in). If the creature wins, it forces it's way through the barrier, causing it to disperse.

In either case the creature takes force damage equal to 1D6 +1/ class level. The barrier is a 10ft pane, positioned as you please within Telekinesis range and requires 1 Hand to maintain. You may create and maintain multiple barriers at once, any number of barriers may be set as part of the same move action so long as you have enough hands free to create them.

You may invest 1 more Hand to increase the damage dealt to 1D6/ class level

Critical Thinking(EX): Starting at 11th level, you have learned how to wield a weapon in the most dangerous fashion.

At level 11 weapons used in Force Blast get their normal critical threat range.

At level 18 all weapons wielded with Telekinetic Hands get their normal threat range and are treated as though you had Improved Critical. You do not actually gain the feat, and it does not count for prerequisites. This ability stacks in the same way as the feat.

Ghostly Hand(SU): At 12th level, your abilities become capable of affecting ethereal objects and enemies. Objects thrown using Force Blast must be ethereal to do so, but weapons wielded using Telekinetic Fighting are treated as being both corporeal and ethereal from now on.

At 17th level all your abilities can effect creatures and objects from any coterminous planes.

Disrupting Throw(SU): At 15th level, as an immediate action, you may attempt an attack of opportunity against any opponent up to 5ft/class level away. They must have just taken an action which would provoke an attack of opportunity were you adjacent to them, but you need not be threatening the opponent. You may use your Force Blast ability, or any of the abilities you know through Far Trick. This counts towards your attacks of opportunity for the round.

Master Of The Far Hand(EX): At 20th level, you have reached the pinnacle of your mental power. Reality becomes an illusion which you can bend like putty, and many of your abilities are enhanced as follows:

All your Telekinesis dependent abilities are now considered Extraordinary.

Your Disrupting Throw becomes a free action, still taking up an attack of opportunity per use. It may also be used anywhere within your Telekinesis range.

Your flight speed increases to 120ft.

You no longer take range penalties to your far tricks.

You count as using twice as many hands as you devote to Mental Strength for performing acts of manual dexterity.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

ACFs

Pure Telekineticist.

Replaces: Martial Skill, Telekinetic Fighting, Martial Weapon Proficiency, and Telekinetic Reach.

Benefit:The number of Hands you have is increased to 1 Hand/Class Level. The range of your telekinesis increases to 20ft/level.


Unarmed Telekineticist

Replaces: Martial Skill, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Medium Armor Proficiency.

Benefit: You may generate weapons of pure force. These deal damage equal to 1d6/Hand force damage. They gain a bonus to hit and to damage equal to 1/2*Charisma Modifier*Invested Hands + 1. These are treated as weapons the Telekineticist is proficient with for all purposes. Their critical range is 20/x2.



Magic Items
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Miniature Boulder:
This item is very useful to a Telekineticist. It has the dimensions of a marble, and weighs much the same.
As a move action (or free action with the quick draw feat) the marble can be activated. After its activation, the marble can be made to weigh up to 500lb, always growing to a foot diameter sphere. Another move action is required to reduce it back down to marble size.


And round 2 of reworks. How's this look? Some work mysteriously vanished at one point, so I don't know if I got it all replaced lol.

Also did some work to the ACFs. Take a look. Still not sure if Unarmed is ok...

Veklim
2012-02-24, 04:45 PM
Looks good to me, the unarmed ACF is still a bit weird but I'm not sre how to make that simpler honestly. I'll think on it.

You missed only one tiny bit, put in bold here:
Critical Thinking(EX): Starting at 11th level, you have learned how to wield a weapon in the most dangerous fashion.

At level 11 weapons with which you are proficient used in Force Blast get their normal critical threat range.

It's part of the scaling quality of the ability and I think it makes a fair difference.

Otherwise it all looks good, time to prod bobthe6th with his fully edited class methinks! Nice job dude :smallbiggrin:

DerTollUdo
2012-02-24, 07:35 PM
This is in need of PEACH. Just skip past the old comments.


Special thanks to VEKLIM for editing. It was a lot messier before.
Really, first time I got an editor, and the class is better for it...

So, I have tried to make blasters. They have all been kinda busy, and introduce too many new concepts. So going to try a different tact, something in line with an invoker.

The Telekineticist. A rather long name but oh well.

When the psionic talent begins to surface, they show odd signs. Some of these show it through the sudden movement of objects. Flying plates and tables mark a developing psion, yet some never grow out of it. These psions grow in power, standing up to psions in their own right as masters of psionic power.




Characteristics: The Telekineticist relies on its mind to create force affects. This can range from throwing a mass at a foe, throwing a foe, fighting with a weapon held with his mind, even to full power flight!

Alignment: The Telekineticist can be of any alignment. The power of the mind bares no alignment above others.

Religion: The Telekineticist favors gods of battle and psionics.

Races: Humans are drawn to this class like any other. Small races also enjoy this class, as it lets them use brains in place of brawn. Any mining race tends to have many Telekineticists since they aid in the mining process. All psionic races tend to favor this class like any other psionic class.

Other Classes: Martial classes tend to dislike The Telekineticist, as they seem too magical to be true martial. Magical classes enjoy The Telekineticist, as they seem to merely be imitating their own power.

Role: Can take on the role of a secondary tank, or perhaps stealth. But this class shines at battle field control. With numerous abilities for punishing foes unwilling to move as he wishes, and the ability to physically move foes into a formation of his choice, he can add some useful utility outside of combat while performing numerous tricks at a distance.

Game Rule Information:
Abilities:Charisma is very important, as it is the strength of The Telekineticist. Wisdom allows The Telekineticist to maintain effects longer, and constitution helps The Telekineticist stay alive while increasing maximum Hands.

Alignment: Any

Hit Die: d8

The Telekineticist
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

1st|+1|+0|+0|+2| Telekinetic Hands, Mental Strength, Force Blast, Wild Talent

2nd|+2|+0|+0|+3| Telekinetic Fighting: Least

3rd|+3|+1|+1|+3|Telekinetic Reach

4th|+4|+1|+1|+4| Far Trick

5th|+5|+1|+1|+4| Martial Skill

6th|+6/+1|+2|+2|+5| Telekinetic Fighting: Lesser

7th|+7/+2|+2|+2|+5| Telekinetic Flight

8th|+8/+3|+2|+2|+6| Far Trick

9th|+9/+4|+3|+3|+6| Martial Skill, Focused Shield

10th|+10/+5|+3|+3|+7| Telekinetic Flight: Improved

11th|+11/+6/+1|+3|+3|+7| Telekinetic Fighting: Improved, Critical Thinking

12th|+12/+7/+2|+4|+4|+8| Far Trick, Ghostly Hand

13th|+13/+8/+3|+4|+4|+8| Telekinetic Flight: Greater

14th|+14/+9/+4|+4|+4|+9| Martial Skill

15th|+15/+10/+5|+5|+5|+9| Disrupting Throw

16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+5|+5|+10| Far Trick, Telekinetic Fighting: Greater

17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+5|+5|+10| Ghostly Hand

18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+6|+6|+11| Critical Thinking

19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+6|+6|+11| Martial Skill

20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+6|+6|+12| Master Of The Unseen Hand
[/table]

Class Skills

The Telekineticist's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are; Auto Hypnosis(Con), Balance(Dex), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Escape artist(Dex), Knowledge (Psionics)(Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Slight of hand(Dex), Tumble(Dex), Use Psionic Device(Cha), and Psicraft (Int).

Skill Points at First Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

Proficiencies: A Telekineticist is proficient with all Simple weapons and one martial melee weapon of their choice. They are also proficient with light and medium armor, and all shields.

Telekinetic Hands(SU): The Telekineticist has limited capability with his power. This capability is known as Telekinetic Hands, or just Hands. The Telekineticist has a number of Hands equal to 1 + 1/3 class levels + your Constitution modifier. These Hands have a range equal to 10ft/ class level.

If an ability that uses Hands requires a save, it has a DC of 10 + 1/2 class levels + charisma modifier. If they require a physical ability score (such as an opposed strength checks for a trip attempt), use the Charisma modifier instead. To use his Hands he must be psionically focused, although he does not expend his focus by doing so.

Any hand which is used for a non-sustained ability is considered used until the start of your next turn, and any hand used for a sustained ability is considered used until the ability is released.

Mental Strength(SU): The Telekineticist can move an object with his mind, or perform some act of manual dexterity at any distance within the range of his Hands as a standard action. He may move up to 50lb/level at a rate of 30' per action, objects up to 100lb/level at a rate of 20' per action with one Hand or 30' with two Hands, and objects up to 150lb/level at a rate of 10' per action with one Hand, 20' with two Hands or 30' with three Hands. These movements are not limited in direction, but do have a limited duration. The Telekineticist can maintain pressure for up to wisdom modifier rounds, after that the object drops to the ground and the Telekineticist is fatigued for 1d4 rounds. You may not initiate this ability if you are fatigued.

Creatures may be moved in this way, but they get a will save to negate the effects. Any movement from this ability provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. The Telekineticist may not use this ability on himself.

Objects weighing 25lb + 25lb/3 levels may be maintained without limit with one Hand. For two Hands, this becomes 25lb + 25lb/2 levels instead, and for three Hands this limit becomes 25lb + 25lb/level.

The Telekineticist can also perform a feat of manual dexterity anywhere within the maximum range of his powers. This manipulation is limited by the number of hands used. If you wish to do something which would require two physical hands to achieve (like tie a knot in some rope), then you must use at least 2 hands. No additional effect is had by using more Hands than necessary for any given action.

Force Blast(SU):As a standard action, the Telekineticist can launch a number of objects within the range of his Hands. Each object may weigh no more than 25lb/level, and requires the use of a single Hand/object. The object(s) travel up to 10ft/level and this movement may take it outside of the Hands range.

The Telekineticist makes a single standard ranged attack (in the case of multiple targets, this result is applied to each target separately), with a -2 penalty for each object thrown beyond the first. Each object deals bludgeoning or piercing damage (DM's choice) depending on it's weight up to 1d6/25lb. Regardless of the item launched, you do not take a non-proficiency penalty for this attack. Weapons launched with this power deal bludgeoning damage according to their weight unless you are proficient with them, at which point you may deal normal weapon damage (and damage type) instead. The object or weapon deals an additional +1d6 damage for each full 10ft of movement it had remaining when it hits. The critical threat of weapons used this way is 20/x2, only one roll need be made to confirm all attacks and criticals made with a single use of Force Blast. Any enchantments or abilities the weapon/s may have are applied individually. The keen enchantment, or any similar ability involving critical threat ranges does not apply. A flaming burst weapon would always consider it's threat range as 20/x2.

You may also focus this ability in an attempt to rip the target apart from the inside. The Telekineticist makes a single standard ranged touch attack (in the case of multiple targets, this result is applied to each target separately), with a -2 penalty for each blast after the first. This attack deals 1D4/2 class levels force damage and the target must succeed on a fortitude save or be nauseated for 1D4 rounds. This ability only functions within the range of your Hands. This ability effects objects.

Wild Talent: You gain the feat Wild Talent as a bonus feat.

Telekinetic Fighting(SU):

Least:
At 2nd level The Telekineticist may use Hands to wield weapons he is proficient with and fight within the range of his Hands. Any weapon wielded in this fashion may be moved up to 30ft in a round as a free action.

As a standard action, you may make a single melee attack with one such weapon, using Charisma instead of Strength for the to hit and damage rolls. You only threaten squares within your physical reach, if the weapon is beyond this range it does not threaten on it's own. A one-handed or smaller weapon requires one Hand and a two-handed weapon requires two Hands to use. Any weapon(s) held by your Hands may have additional Hands added to it, each increasing the damage by 1/2 charisma modifier.

The Telekineticist suffers -2 to hit and a -1 to damage for every 10ft increment between the weapon and The Telekineticist, to a maximum of the range of his Hands. He may maintain this effect for a number of rounds equal to his constitution modifier per encounter.

Lesser:
At 6th level you may make a full attack with the weapon(s) you are wielding with Telekinetic Fighting. You may not make more attacks than you could with a single weapon, even if you have the Two Weapon Fighting or Multi-Attack feats, but you may spread your iterative attacks between weapons at no penalty, although the range penalty still applies. You may now hold a light or heavy shield with one Hand or a tower shield in two Hands. Such a shield may occupy any square including your own or those of your allies (but not an enemy's) and confers on anyone in that square the shield's AC bonus as a shield bonus to their own AC.

The duration you may maintain this effect is increased to you Constitution Score.

Improved:
You may now make as many attacks as you are capable of, including Two Weapon Fighting or Multi-Attack. You may wield a weapon of a larger size category than you normally could for your size. For every size category larger than normal, the weapon requires an additional Hand to wield, these Hands do not add extra damage, but you may add further Hands to do so.

The duration you may maintain this effect is removed.

Greater:
At 16th level you no longer take the -2 to hit and -1 to damage for every 10ft between you and your weapon, but you are still limited to the range of your Hands. Also, as a standard action you may attack once with each weapon weilded by your Telekinetic Fighting. This is done with a single attack roll at your highest attack bonus, but takes a penalty to hit equal to the number of weapons being weilded -1.

Telekinetic Reach(SU): At third level, any weapon you are wielding with your Telekinetic Fighting threatens adjacent squares as normal for a weapon of it's type. If the weapon has the reach quality then calculate accordingly.

Far Trick(SU):Starting at 4th lvl when your powers start to mature, you gain the ability to make specific types of attacks within the range of your Hands. These work as normal except Charisma is used instead of any physical score, and your size bonus (or penalty) does not apply to these checks.

Each ability initially receives a penalty of -1/10ft away from the target you are. Each ability requires one hand to activate.

At 4th level you may attempt to break down a door or bullrush an opponent.

At 8th level you may attempt disarm attempts against foes. The penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/20ft.

At 12th level you may attempt trip attempts against foes. The penalty for disarming is reduced to -1/20ft, and the penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/40ft.

At 16th level you may attempt to grapple foes. The penalty for tripping is reduced to -1/20ft, the penalty for disarming is reduced to -1/40ft, and the penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/80ft.

Minds eye(SU): At 5th level, as a full round action you may gain blind sight out to half your telekinesis range until the end of your next turn. You must be psionically focused to do this.

At 10th level this increases to full telekinesis range.

At 15th level you may maintain this ability indefinitely with one hand.

At 20th level this ability no longer requires a Hand to maintain and is always active (even when you are not psionically focused).

Martial Skill (EX): You may not be a fighter, but you understand weapons of war.

At 5th level you gain two additional martial weapon proficiencies of your choice.

At 9th level you gain two more additional martial weapon proficiencies of your choice.

At 14th level you gain one additional martial weapon proficiency and one additional exotic weapon proficiency of your choice.

At 19th level you gain two additional exotic weapon proficiencies of your choice.

Telekinetic Flight(SU): You have finally mastered moving yourself using your Hands. One Hand is required to initiate and sustain flight. If you reach the duration of the ability, you immediately descend directly downwards at a rate equal to the fly speed (taking falling damage if you fail to reach solid ground in this distance) and become fatigued for 1d4 rounds. You may not initiate this ability if you are fatigued

At 7th level, you may fly at a speed of 30ft with perfect maneuverability for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom modifier. You may keep this flight up indefinitely by using three hands.

At 11th level, your fly speed increases to 40ft and you may stay aloft for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom score. You only need two to keep this up indefinitely.

At 13th level, your fly speed increases to 60ft and may be sustained indefinitely with only one Hand.

Focused Shield(SU):At 9th level you may create a barrier with your Hands as a move action. Any unattended objects or projectiles (including spells which require an attack roll) are instantly stopped and cannot pass through. If a creature attempts to pass through, it suffers an immediate bullrush attack upon contact with the barrier, as if the barrier were a gargantuan creature with a Strength score equal to your Charisma score. If the barrier wins the opposed check, the creature is pushed back 5ft (but no more, since the barrier cannot move from the squares it has been placed in). If the creature wins, it forces it's way through the barrier, causing it to disperse.

In either case the creature takes force damage equal to 1D6 +1/ class level. The barrier is a 10ft pane, positioned as you please within Telekinesis range and requires 1 Hand to maintain. You may create and maintain multiple barriers at once, any number of barriers may be set as part of the same move action so long as you have enough hands free to create them.

You may invest 1 more Hand to increase the damage dealt to 1D6/ class level

Critical Thinking(EX): Starting at 11th level, you have learned how to wield a weapon in the most dangerous fashion.

At level 11 weapons with which you are proficient used in Force Blast get their normal critical threat range.

At level 18 all weapons wielded with Telekinetic Hands get their normal threat range and are treated as though you had Improved Critical. You do not actually gain the feat, and it does not count for prerequisites. This ability stacks in the same way as the feat.

Ghostly Hand(SU): At 12th level, your abilities become capable of affecting ethereal objects and enemies. Objects thrown using Force Blast must be ethereal to do so, but weapons wielded using Telekinetic Fighting are treated as being both corporeal and ethereal from now on.

At 17th level all your abilities can effect creatures and objects from any coterminous planes.

Disrupting Throw(SU): At 15th level, as an immediate action, you may attempt an attack of opportunity against any opponent up to 5ft/class level away. They must have just taken an action which would provoke an attack of opportunity were you adjacent to them, but you need not be threatening the opponent. You may use your Force Blast ability, or any of the abilities you know through Far Trick. This counts towards your attacks of opportunity for the round.

Master Of The Far Hand(EX): At 20th level, you have reached the pinnacle of your mental power. Reality becomes an illusion which you can bend like putty, and many of your abilities are enhanced as follows:

All your Telekinesis dependent abilities are now considered Extraordinary.

Your Disrupting Throw becomes a free action, still taking up an attack of opportunity per use. It may also be used anywhere within your Telekinesis range.

Your flight speed increases to 120ft.

You no longer take range penalties to your far tricks.

You count as using twice as many hands as you devote to Mental Strength for performing acts of manual dexterity.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

ACFs

Pure Telekineticist.

Replaces: Martial Skill, Telekinetic Fighting, Martial Weapon Proficiency, and Telekinetic Reach.

Benefit:The number of Hands you have is increased to 1 Hand/Class Level. The range of your telekinesis increases to 20ft/level.


Unarmed Telekineticist

Replaces: Martial Skill, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Medium Armor Proficiency.

Benefit: You may generate weapons of pure force. These deal damage equal to 1d6/Hand force damage. They gain a bonus to hit and to damage equal to 1/2*Charisma Modifier*Invested Hands + 1. These are treated as weapons the Telekineticist is proficient with for all purposes. Their critical range is 20/x2.



Magic Items
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Miniature Boulder:
This item is very useful to a Telekineticist. It has the dimensions of a marble, and weighs much the same.
As a move action (or free action with the quick draw feat) the marble can be activated. After its activation, the marble can be made to weigh up to 500lb, always growing to a foot diameter sphere. Another move action is required to reduce it back down to marble size.


Round 3! And maybe last-ish for the main class?

Now all that's missing are feats, more items maybe, and othe ACFs if anybody thinks of any.

Lets take a deeper look at Unarmed.

Unarmed Telekineticist

Replaces: Martial Skill, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Medium Armor Proficiency.

Benefit: You may generate weapons of pure force. These deal damage equal to 1d6/Hand force damage. They gain a bonus to hit and to damage equal to 1/2*Charisma Modifier*Invested Hands + 1. These are treated as weapons the Telekineticist is proficient with for all purposes. Their critical range is 20/x2.


You lose martial and some exotic weapon and medium armor proficiency basically. Gain cool lightsabers. Missing what action it is to create them. Would free be too much? Or should it be swift to make as many as you want/can at once with a free to dismiss.

Can this be stacked with Pure? I would love it to because then the flavor is aligned. Maybe they should be combined? If combined maybe remove critical thinking to balance if it is OP...dunno.

This is kinda why I feel like something is wrong with it, it feels more like it should be part of pure...

Let's look at the math for this for normal and Pure. Assuming 20 cha and 18 con. Since those are two primary stats for strength and versatility, I feel it is reasonable to assume those stats being great. Also lets call it level 12.

Keeping the same basic assumptions from the last math, you had basically 1-2 Hands free for weapons as normal but now you have con mod added in, which brings available up to 5-6 unless you carry some other things. So we will say for the purposes of this math you are wielding 1-2 weapons using 4-6 hands between them. (Although once you have greater TK Fighting maybe more is better...)

Thus damage is 2-3d6 per weapon. With a modifier of 6-8 for to hit and damage. Not bad for a couple weapons. So balanced with the Con added to hands.

For a single weapon: 4-6d6. Modifier: 11, 13, or 16

Now for Pure, same assumptions:

You have 8-10 free hands.

4-5d6 per weapon. Modifier: 11 or 13

Single: 8-10d6. Modifier: 21, 23, or 26


I don't immediately see it being OP if it can be combined with Pure since they don't get enchantments...


Fluff question, do they have a specified shape/color? Orbs of doom, lightsabers, dozens of shuriken, shapes of people all come to mind as cool things. I feel it should be up to the char/dm for that. I like having cinematic weapons and stuff.

Kobold-Bard
2012-02-25, 05:23 AM
This is in need of PEACH. Just skip past the old comments.


Special thanks to VEKLIM for editing. It was a lot messier before.
Really, first time I got an editor, and the class is better for it...

So, I have tried to make blasters. They have all been kinda busy, and introduce too many new concepts. So going to try a different tact, something in line with an invoker.

The Telekineticist. A rather long name but oh well.

When the psionic talent begins to surface, they show odd signs. Some of these show it through the sudden movement of objects. Flying plates and tables mark a developing psion, yet some never grow out of it. These psions grow in power, standing up to psions in their own right as masters of psionic power.




Characteristics: The Telekineticist relies on its mind to create force affects. This can range from throwing a mass at a foe, throwing a foe, fighting with a weapon held with his mind, even to full power flight!

Alignment: The Telekineticist can be of any alignment. The power of the mind bares no alignment above others.

Religion: The Telekineticist favors gods of battle and psionics.

Races: Humans are drawn to this class like any other. Small races also enjoy this class, as it lets them use brains in place of brawn. Any mining race tends to have many Telekineticists since they aid in the mining process. All psionic races tend to favor this class like any other psionic class.

Other Classes: Martial classes tend to dislike The Telekineticist, as they seem too magical to be true martial. Magical classes enjoy The Telekineticist, as they seem to merely be imitating their own power.

Role: Can take on the role of a secondary tank, or perhaps stealth. But this class shines at battle field control. With numerous abilities for punishing foes unwilling to move as he wishes, and the ability to physically move foes into a formation of his choice, he can add some useful utility outside of combat while performing numerous tricks at a distance.

Game Rule Information:
Abilities:Charisma is very important, as it is the strength of The Telekineticist. Wisdom allows The Telekineticist to maintain effects longer, and constitution helps The Telekineticist stay alive while increasing maximum Hands.

Alignment: Any

Hit Die: d8

The Telekineticist
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

1st|+1|+0|+0|+2| Telekinetic Hands, Mental Strength, Force Blast, Wild Talent

2nd|+2|+0|+0|+3| Telekinetic Fighting: Least

3rd|+3|+1|+1|+3|Telekinetic Reach

4th|+4|+1|+1|+4| Far Trick

5th|+5|+1|+1|+4| Martial Skill

6th|+6/+1|+2|+2|+5| Telekinetic Fighting: Lesser

7th|+7/+2|+2|+2|+5| Telekinetic Flight

8th|+8/+3|+2|+2|+6| Far Trick

9th|+9/+4|+3|+3|+6| Martial Skill, Focused Shield

10th|+10/+5|+3|+3|+7| Telekinetic Flight: Improved

11th|+11/+6/+1|+3|+3|+7| Telekinetic Fighting: Improved, Critical Thinking

12th|+12/+7/+2|+4|+4|+8| Far Trick, Ghostly Hand

13th|+13/+8/+3|+4|+4|+8| Telekinetic Flight: Greater

14th|+14/+9/+4|+4|+4|+9| Martial Skill

15th|+15/+10/+5|+5|+5|+9| Disrupting Throw

16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+5|+5|+10| Far Trick, Telekinetic Fighting: Greater

17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+5|+5|+10| Ghostly Hand

18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+6|+6|+11| Critical Thinking

19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+6|+6|+11| Martial Skill

20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+6|+6|+12| Master Of The Unseen Hand
[/table]

Class Skills

The Telekineticist's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are; Auto Hypnosis(Con), Balance(Dex), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Escape artist(Dex), Knowledge (Psionics)(Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Slight of hand(Dex), Tumble(Dex), Use Psionic Device(Cha), and Psicraft (Int).

Skill Points at First Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

Proficiencies: A Telekineticist is proficient with all Simple weapons and one martial melee weapon of their choice. They are also proficient with light and medium armor, and all shields.

Telekinetic Hands(SU): The Telekineticist has limited capability with his power. This capability is known as Telekinetic Hands, or just Hands. The Telekineticist has a number of Hands equal to 1 + 1/3 class levels + your Constitution modifier. These Hands have a range equal to 10ft/ class level.

If an ability that uses Hands requires a save, it has a DC of 10 + 1/2 class levels + charisma modifier. If they require a physical ability score (such as an opposed strength checks for a trip attempt), use the Charisma modifier instead. To use his Hands he must be psionically focused, although he does not expend his focus by doing so.

Any hand which is used for a non-sustained ability is considered used until the start of your next turn, and any hand used for a sustained ability is considered used until the ability is released.

Mental Strength(SU): The Telekineticist can move an object with his mind, or perform some act of manual dexterity at any distance within the range of his Hands as a standard action. He may move up to 50lb/level at a rate of 30' per action, objects up to 100lb/level at a rate of 20' per action with one Hand or 30' with two Hands, and objects up to 150lb/level at a rate of 10' per action with one Hand, 20' with two Hands or 30' with three Hands. These movements are not limited in direction, but do have a limited duration. The Telekineticist can maintain pressure for up to wisdom modifier rounds, after that the object drops to the ground and the Telekineticist is fatigued for 1d4 rounds. You may not initiate this ability if you are fatigued.

Creatures may be moved in this way, but they get a will save to negate the effects. Any movement from this ability provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. The Telekineticist may not use this ability on himself.

Objects weighing 25lb + 25lb/3 levels may be maintained without limit with one Hand. For two Hands, this becomes 25lb + 25lb/2 levels instead, and for three Hands this limit becomes 25lb + 25lb/level.

The Telekineticist can also perform a feat of manual dexterity anywhere within the maximum range of his powers. This manipulation is limited by the number of hands used. If you wish to do something which would require two physical hands to achieve (like tie a knot in some rope), then you must use at least 2 hands. No additional effect is had by using more Hands than necessary for any given action.

Force Blast(SU):As a standard action, the Telekineticist can launch a number of objects within the range of his Hands. Each object may weigh no more than 25lb/level, and requires the use of a single Hand/object. The object(s) travel up to 10ft/level and this movement may take it outside of the Hands range.

The Telekineticist makes a single standard ranged attack (in the case of multiple targets, this result is applied to each target separately), with a -2 penalty for each object thrown beyond the first. Each object deals bludgeoning or piercing damage (DM's choice) depending on it's weight up to 1d6/25lb. Regardless of the item launched, you do not take a non-proficiency penalty for this attack. Weapons launched with this power deal bludgeoning damage according to their weight unless you are proficient with them, at which point you may deal normal weapon damage (and damage type) instead. The object or weapon deals an additional +1d6 damage for each full 10ft of movement it had remaining when it hits. The critical threat of weapons used this way is 20/x2, only one roll need be made to confirm all attacks and criticals made with a single use of Force Blast. Any enchantments or abilities the weapon/s may have are applied individually. The keen enchantment, or any similar ability involving critical threat ranges does not apply. A flaming burst weapon would always consider it's threat range as 20/x2.

You may also focus this ability in an attempt to rip the target apart from the inside. The Telekineticist makes a single standard ranged touch attack (in the case of multiple targets, this result is applied to each target separately), with a -2 penalty for each blast after the first. This attack deals 1D4/2 class levels force damage and the target must succeed on a fortitude save or be nauseated for 1D4 rounds. This ability only functions within the range of your Hands. This ability effects objects.

Wild Talent: You gain the feat Wild Talent as a bonus feat.

Telekinetic Fighting(SU):

Least:
At 2nd level The Telekineticist may use Hands to wield weapons he is proficient with and fight within the range of his Hands. Any weapon wielded in this fashion may be moved up to 30ft in a round as a free action.

As a standard action, you may make a single melee attack with one such weapon, using Charisma instead of Strength for the to hit and damage rolls. You only threaten squares within your physical reach, if the weapon is beyond this range it does not threaten on it's own. A one-handed or smaller weapon requires one Hand and a two-handed weapon requires two Hands to use. Any weapon(s) held by your Hands may have additional Hands added to it, each increasing the damage by 1/2 charisma modifier.

The Telekineticist suffers -2 to hit and a -1 to damage for every 10ft increment between the weapon and The Telekineticist, to a maximum of the range of his Hands. He may maintain this effect for a number of rounds equal to his constitution modifier per encounter.

Lesser:
At 6th level you may make a full attack with the weapon(s) you are wielding with Telekinetic Fighting. You may not make more attacks than you could with a single weapon, even if you have the Two Weapon Fighting or Multi-Attack feats, but you may spread your iterative attacks between weapons at no penalty, although the range penalty still applies. You may now hold a light or heavy shield with one Hand or a tower shield in two Hands. Such a shield may occupy any square including your own or those of your allies (but not an enemy's) and confers on anyone in that square the shield's AC bonus as a shield bonus to their own AC.

The duration you may maintain this effect is increased to you Constitution Score.

Improved:
You may now make as many attacks as you are capable of, including Two Weapon Fighting or Multi-Attack. You may wield a weapon of a larger size category than you normally could for your size. For every size category larger than normal, the weapon requires an additional Hand to wield, these Hands do not add extra damage, but you may add further Hands to do so.

The duration you may maintain this effect is removed.

Greater:
At 16th level you no longer take the -2 to hit and -1 to damage for every 10ft between you and your weapon, but you are still limited to the range of your Hands. Also, as a standard action you may attack once with each weapon weilded by your Telekinetic Fighting. This is done with a single attack roll at your highest attack bonus, but takes a penalty to hit equal to the number of weapons being weilded -1.

Telekinetic Reach(SU): At third level, any weapon you are wielding with your Telekinetic Fighting threatens adjacent squares as normal for a weapon of it's type. If the weapon has the reach quality then calculate accordingly.

Far Trick(SU):Starting at 4th lvl when your powers start to mature, you gain the ability to make specific types of attacks within the range of your Hands. These work as normal except Charisma is used instead of any physical score, and your size bonus (or penalty) does not apply to these checks.

Each ability initially receives a penalty of -1/10ft away from the target you are. Each ability requires one hand to activate.

At 4th level you may attempt to break down a door or bullrush an opponent.

At 8th level you may attempt disarm attempts against foes. The penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/20ft.

At 12th level you may attempt trip attempts against foes. The penalty for disarming is reduced to -1/20ft, and the penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/40ft.

At 16th level you may attempt to grapple foes. The penalty for tripping is reduced to -1/20ft, the penalty for disarming is reduced to -1/40ft, and the penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/80ft.

Minds eye(SU): At 5th level, as a full round action you may gain blind sight out to half your telekinesis range until the end of your next turn. You must be psionically focused to do this.

At 10th level this increases to full telekinesis range.

At 15th level you may maintain this ability indefinitely with one hand.

At 20th level this ability no longer requires a Hand to maintain and is always active (even when you are not psionically focused).

Martial Skill (EX): You may not be a fighter, but you understand weapons of war.

At 5th level you gain two additional martial weapon proficiencies of your choice.

At 9th level you gain two more additional martial weapon proficiencies of your choice.

At 14th level you gain one additional martial weapon proficiency and one additional exotic weapon proficiency of your choice.

At 19th level you gain two additional exotic weapon proficiencies of your choice.

Telekinetic Flight(SU): You have finally mastered moving yourself using your Hands. One Hand is required to initiate and sustain flight. If you reach the duration of the ability, you immediately descend directly downwards at a rate equal to the fly speed (taking falling damage if you fail to reach solid ground in this distance) and become fatigued for 1d4 rounds. You may not initiate this ability if you are fatigued

At 7th level, you may fly at a speed of 30ft with perfect maneuverability for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom modifier. You may keep this flight up indefinitely by using three hands.

At 11th level, your fly speed increases to 40ft and you may stay aloft for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom score. You only need two to keep this up indefinitely.

At 13th level, your fly speed increases to 60ft and may be sustained indefinitely with only one Hand.

Focused Shield(SU):At 9th level you may create a barrier with your Hands as a move action. Any unattended objects or projectiles (including spells which require an attack roll) are instantly stopped and cannot pass through. If a creature attempts to pass through, it suffers an immediate bullrush attack upon contact with the barrier, as if the barrier were a gargantuan creature with a Strength score equal to your Charisma score. If the barrier wins the opposed check, the creature is pushed back 5ft (but no more, since the barrier cannot move from the squares it has been placed in). If the creature wins, it forces it's way through the barrier, causing it to disperse.

In either case the creature takes force damage equal to 1D6 +1/ class level. The barrier is a 10ft pane, positioned as you please within Telekinesis range and requires 1 Hand to maintain. You may create and maintain multiple barriers at once, any number of barriers may be set as part of the same move action so long as you have enough hands free to create them.

You may invest 1 more Hand to increase the damage dealt to 1D6/ class level

Critical Thinking(EX): Starting at 11th level, you have learned how to wield a weapon in the most dangerous fashion.

At level 11 weapons with which you are proficient used in Force Blast get their normal critical threat range.

At level 18 all weapons wielded with Telekinetic Hands get their normal threat range and are treated as though you had Improved Critical. You do not actually gain the feat, and it does not count for prerequisites. This ability stacks in the same way as the feat.

Ghostly Hand(SU): At 12th level, your abilities become capable of affecting ethereal objects and enemies. Objects thrown using Force Blast must be ethereal to do so, but weapons wielded using Telekinetic Fighting are treated as being both corporeal and ethereal from now on.

At 17th level all your abilities can effect creatures and objects from any coterminous planes.

Disrupting Throw(SU): At 15th level, as an immediate action, you may attempt an attack of opportunity against any opponent up to 5ft/class level away. They must have just taken an action which would provoke an attack of opportunity were you adjacent to them, but you need not be threatening the opponent. You may use your Force Blast ability, or any of the abilities you know through Far Trick. This counts towards your attacks of opportunity for the round.

Master Of The Far Hand(EX): At 20th level, you have reached the pinnacle of your mental power. Reality becomes an illusion which you can bend like putty, and many of your abilities are enhanced as follows:

All your Telekinesis dependent abilities are now considered Extraordinary.

Your Disrupting Throw becomes a free action, still taking up an attack of opportunity per use. It may also be used anywhere within your Telekinesis range.

Your flight speed increases to 120ft.

You no longer take range penalties to your far tricks.

You count as using twice as many hands as you devote to Mental Strength for performing acts of manual dexterity.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

ACFs

Pure Telekineticist.

Replaces: Martial Skill, Telekinetic Fighting, Martial Weapon Proficiency, and Telekinetic Reach.

Benefit:The number of Hands you have is increased to 1 Hand/Class Level. The range of your telekinesis increases to 20ft/level.


Unarmed Telekineticist

Replaces: Martial Skill, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Medium Armor Proficiency.

Benefit: You may generate weapons of pure force. These deal damage equal to 1d6/Hand force damage. They gain a bonus to hit and to damage equal to 1/2*Charisma Modifier*Invested Hands + 1. These are treated as weapons the Telekineticist is proficient with for all purposes. Their critical range is 20/x2.



Magic Items
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Miniature Boulder:
This item is very useful to a Telekineticist. It has the dimensions of a marble, and weighs much the same.
As a move action (or free action with the quick draw feat) the marble can be activated. After its activation, the marble can be made to weigh up to 500lb, always growing to a foot diameter sphere. Another move action is required to reduce it back down to marble size.


Round 3! And maybe last-ish for the main class?

Now all that's missing are feats, more items maybe, and othe ACFs if anybody thinks of any.

...

I haven't been following the thread so this may not fit, but how about an ACF that gets some telepathic abilities as well as the telekinetic ones to make a Psycho Mantis/Jean Grey/general psychic type character?

DerTollUdo
2012-02-25, 12:20 PM
Seems like a cool idea...just trying to figure out how TK lets you talk to other peoples minds lol.

So, give it some spin, add some fluff and make it believable. Then we will run with it and help you out :)

What would you have to give up for it? Would it require Hands?

bobthe6th
2012-02-25, 12:29 PM
hmm... mouths for hands....

could spin it as giving up some hands for telepathy out to TK range and some pp per day...

DerTollUdo
2012-02-25, 01:01 PM
Could also spin it as being able to hold thoughts with Hands...

Also, Hi bob! Nice to see you back.

bobthe6th
2012-02-25, 01:31 PM
ah... I already let it fondle a 60ft diameter for blindsight... now its grabing brains? but an interesting spin.


was overly relaxing on a long holiday. will get to the edits tomarow(still have some stuff to do in RL...)

Kobold-Bard
2012-02-25, 02:15 PM
ah... I already let it fondle a 60ft diameter for blindsight... now its grabing brains? but an interesting spin.

...

Irrelevant to my idea, but Touchsight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/touchsight.htm)sets a precedent for "seeing" with Telekinesis. Someone taking this class is just really good at it.

-----

As for my suggestion, it's not that much of a stretch. Rather than just developing psychokinesis they also developed telepathic abilities; I hate to use her as an example but she's the easiest one, so like Jean Grey.

The term Hands is just a way of identifying how much they can do at once, rather than being literal hands, right? So there's no need to say they're fondling people's brains (though you could say they were "reaching into people's minds" if you really needed a hand connection).

The obvious things to trade are the martial skill abilities, but they already have an ACF so I'm not sure if that works. Off the top of my head maybe their HD or BAB drops a level (to show they're not a dedicated warrior like a standard T would be) and they gain Telepathy with a range matching their telekinesis.

Give them a Detect Thoughts ability too somewhere. After that maybe something like Suggestion by maintaining a number of hands on a person, upgrading to Charm Person-Charm Monster-Dominate Person(-Dominate Monster) as they level up, each higher level requiring more Hands to maintain/the top one requiring lots of hands, but needing less as more powerful options (which need lots of Hands) become available.

Maybe it costs them Far Trick and/or Critical Thinking?

Just some ideas, I'm bad at homebrewing so I'm not saying they're necessarily good ones.

bobthe6th
2012-02-25, 02:30 PM
fixing broken page...

Veklim
2012-02-25, 08:04 PM
Editor's note!!!
Mind's Eye isn't listed on the table at 5th level, needs amending.
Master of the Far Hand is listed as Master of the Unseen Hand on the table, need to choose one name and stick to it! :smalltongue:

Also, Kobold-Bard, you may just possibly be a genius...

New ACF idea, I present to you...
The Mentalist.
Not only do you have the ability to warp the physical world with your mind, but you can warp the mental state of others too.

Change the Telekineticist's BAB to average progression (like a cleric). You are not as martially minded as other Telekineticists, but your understanding of your powers stretch to the abstract far more than others.

Warp Mindstate.
Replaces: Telekinetic Reach, Martial Skill, Critical Thinking.
At 1st level you start to gain a number of Psi-Like abilities as you progress, as listed below. Each ability requires a number of hands to be used, equal to the level of the power simulated. Hands used this way are considered used until the beginning of your next turn.
1st level. Psionic Charm. Usable 3+ con modifier times per day.
3rd level. Psionic Suggestion. Usable 2+ con modifier times per day.
5th level. Hostile Empathic Transfer. Usable 1+ con modifier times per day.
7th level. Psionic Dominate. Usable con modifier times per day.
9th level. Mind Probe. Usable con modifier -1 times per day.

Power Overwhelming
Replaces: Far Trick
At 4th level you gain the ability to augment your Warp Mindstate with additional hands. Each additional hand counts as 2 power points for this purpose. You begin being able to use only 1 additional hand in this way. You may use another additional hand for every 4 levels thereafter (2 extra at 8th, 3 at 12th, etc, to a maximum of 5 additional hands at 20th.)

Mind's Eye
Your Mind's eye ability gains the following enhancement:
You may improve your Mind's Eye ability with the use of an additional hand. You gain the effects of the Read Thoughts power with 2 differences:
The area becomes that of your Mind's Eye ability.
Creatures with an intelligence of 26 or higher (and at least 10 points higher than your own intelligence score) no longer stun you if they are read. Instead, you simply cannot comprehend the thoughts you read and therefore gain no effect for the purposes of these creatures.

Master of the Unseen/Far Hand (whichever one bobthe6th chooses!)
Remove this line from the ability:
"You no longer take range penalties to your far tricks."
Add this line to the ability:
You count as using two more hands when augmenting your Warp Mindstate abilities (so if you were to augment with 2 extra hands, you would count as having used 4 extra hands instead).

What do you think peeps? (Bear in mind I have written this off the cuff at silly o'clock in the morning after a 14 hour shift, it may need some clarification!)

DerTollUdo
2012-02-26, 03:38 PM
Ill check out that ACF later, as I dont have too much time now.

I will however say that I have new ideas and critiques from outside people who are too lame to get to this thread lol.

The setup as is doesn't lend itself to much replay as the class is always the same. To fix that we make it so at every level you gain on TK ability from the list. The list will include all that we have now plus anything else we can think of. He even had some suggestions for ideas, for example gravity manipulation. Obviously some will be trees that require the earlier ones. This makes it so you can play it however you feel and never havw to be the same guy twice.

He also pointed out that once you hit epic this class goes down fast...changing the lsst part of the capstone to multiply the number of hands you gain, from all sources, would bring to epic a very healthy power boost. I support that idea, as it allows you to do whatever you decide with enough power behind it to actually mater in epic.

bobthe6th
2012-02-26, 04:54 PM
hmm...a special ability set could make sense. would let the class mix focus a bit...

and then the AFCs could be tied in as specials...

Veklim
2012-02-26, 08:30 PM
hrm...

Then we need to start identifying the base elements of the class, and deciding how to balance out the various ACFs we have already, plus any other ideas people may have, and create class feature choices.

First order of the day would be to figure out what of the class (except the hands mechanic itself) should be permanent. We also need to decide whether to make it an average BAB chassis with full BAB progression as a first level option or not. That would mean the 1st level choice would dictate if you're primarily combat or support. Other options can come off at tangents thereafter...

bobthe6th
2012-02-26, 08:41 PM
I think the basic power of the class should be simple telekinesis, with other options being the stuff you could with it.


and i could see doing a three class set, with low, average, and full BAB.

low would be pure telikenetisist, with lots of hands and mage like abilaties(the psi would be here...)

average would be a skill monkey, with some hands and rouge abilaties(hand o' vision and such...)

high would be combat, with fewer hands, but lots of options to build into combat(current TKF, hand boosted attacks, walls...)


thoughts? this is just an idea, if you guys see a better way...

DerTollUdo
2012-02-27, 11:00 AM
I say keep it at its current progessions. Just take all the special abilities except for Hands and pu them in a list. Split up the ones that scale into different abilities. Give them prereqs equal to what they have now. Turn the unarmed one into a special ability, and leave pure as an ACF. Replace the current prrqs by saying certain abilitys are unavailable.

Ill probably work a little on it sometime tonight or tomorrow morning if you just wanna see what I mean lol.

DerTollUdo
2012-02-29, 01:09 PM
This is in need of PEACH. Just skip past the old comments.


Special thanks to VEKLIM for editing. It was a lot messier before.
Really, first time I got an editor, and the class is better for it...

So, I have tried to make blasters. They have all been kinda busy, and introduce too many new concepts. So going to try a different tact, something in line with an invoker.

The Telekineticist. A rather long name but oh well.

When the psionic talent begins to surface, they show odd signs. Some of these show it through the sudden movement of objects. Flying plates and tables mark a developing psion, yet some never grow out of it. These psions grow in power, standing up to psions in their own right as masters of psionic power.




Characteristics: The Telekineticist relies on its mind to create force affects. This can range from throwing a mass at a foe, throwing a foe, fighting with a weapon held with his mind, even to full power flight!

Alignment: The Telekineticist can be of any alignment. The power of the mind bares no alignment above others.

Religion: The Telekineticist favors gods of battle and psionics.

Races: Humans are drawn to this class like any other. Small races also enjoy this class, as it lets them use brains in place of brawn. Any mining race tends to have many Telekineticists since they aid in the mining process. All psionic races tend to favor this class like any other psionic class.

Other Classes: Martial classes tend to dislike The Telekineticist, as they seem too magical to be true martial. Magical classes enjoy The Telekineticist, as they seem to merely be imitating their own power.

Role: Can take on the role of a secondary tank, or perhaps stealth. But this class shines at battle field control. With numerous abilities for punishing foes unwilling to move as he wishes, and the ability to physically move foes into a formation of his choice, he can add some useful utility outside of combat while performing numerous tricks at a distance.

Game Rule Information:
Abilities:Charisma is very important, as it is the strength of The Telekineticist. Wisdom allows The Telekineticist to maintain effects longer, and constitution helps The Telekineticist stay alive while increasing maximum Hands.

Alignment: Any

Hit Die: d8

The Telekineticist
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

1st|+1|+0|+0|+2| Telekinetic Hands, Mental Strength, Force Blast, Wild Talent

2nd|+2|+0|+0|+3| Telekinetic Fighting: Least

3rd|+3|+1|+1|+3|Telekinetic Reach

4th|+4|+1|+1|+4| Far Trick

5th|+5|+1|+1|+4| Martial Skill, Mind's Eye

6th|+6/+1|+2|+2|+5| Telekinetic Fighting: Lesser

7th|+7/+2|+2|+2|+5| Telekinetic Flight

8th|+8/+3|+2|+2|+6| Far Trick

9th|+9/+4|+3|+3|+6| Martial Skill, Focused Shield

10th|+10/+5|+3|+3|+7| Telekinetic Flight: Improved, Mind's Eye

11th|+11/+6/+1|+3|+3|+7| Telekinetic Fighting: Improved, Critical Thinking

12th|+12/+7/+2|+4|+4|+8| Far Trick, Ghostly Hand

13th|+13/+8/+3|+4|+4|+8| Telekinetic Flight: Greater

14th|+14/+9/+4|+4|+4|+9| Martial Skill

15th|+15/+10/+5|+5|+5|+9| Disrupting Throw, Mind's Eye

16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+5|+5|+10| Far Trick, Telekinetic Fighting: Greater

17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+5|+5|+10| Ghostly Hand

18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+6|+6|+11| Critical Thinking

19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+6|+6|+11| Martial Skill

20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+6|+6|+12| Master Of The Far Hand, Mind's Eye
[/table]

Class Skills

The Telekineticist's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are; Auto Hypnosis(Con), Balance(Dex), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Escape artist(Dex), Knowledge (Psionics)(Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Slight of hand(Dex), Tumble(Dex), Use Psionic Device(Cha), and Psicraft (Int).

Skill Points at First Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

Proficiencies: A Telekineticist is proficient with all Simple weapons and one martial melee weapon of their choice. They are also proficient with light and medium armor, and all shields.

Telekinetic Hands(SU): The Telekineticist has limited capability with his power. This capability is known as Telekinetic Hands, or just Hands. The Telekineticist has a number of Hands equal to 1 + 1/3 class levels + your Constitution modifier. These Hands have a range equal to 10ft/ class level.

If an ability that uses Hands requires a save, it has a DC of 10 + 1/2 class levels + charisma modifier. If they require a physical ability score (such as an opposed strength checks for a trip attempt), use the Charisma modifier instead. To use his Hands he must be psionically focused, although he does not expend his focus by doing so.

Any hand which is used for a non-sustained ability is considered used until the start of your next turn, and any hand used for a sustained ability is considered used until the ability is released.

Mental Strength(SU): The Telekineticist can move an object with his mind, or perform some act of manual dexterity at any distance within the range of his Hands as a standard action. He may move up to 50lb/level at a rate of 30' per action, objects up to 100lb/level at a rate of 20' per action with one Hand or 30' with two Hands, and objects up to 150lb/level at a rate of 10' per action with one Hand, 20' with two Hands or 30' with three Hands. These movements are not limited in direction, but do have a limited duration. The Telekineticist can maintain pressure for up to wisdom modifier rounds, after that the object drops to the ground and the Telekineticist is fatigued for 1d4 rounds. You may not initiate this ability if you are fatigued.

Creatures may be moved in this way, but they get a will save to negate the effects. Any movement from this ability provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. The Telekineticist may not use this ability on himself.

Objects weighing 25lb + 25lb/3 levels may be maintained without limit with one Hand. For two Hands, this becomes 25lb + 25lb/2 levels instead, and for three Hands this limit becomes 25lb + 25lb/level.

The Telekineticist can also perform a feat of manual dexterity anywhere within the maximum range of his powers. This manipulation is limited by the number of hands used. If you wish to do something which would require two physical hands to achieve (like tie a knot in some rope), then you must use at least 2 hands. No additional effect is had by using more Hands than necessary for any given action.

Force Blast(SU):As a standard action, the Telekineticist can launch a number of objects within the range of his Hands. Each object may weigh no more than 25lb/level, and requires the use of a single Hand/object. The object(s) travel up to 10ft/level and this movement may take it outside of the Hands range.

The Telekineticist makes a single standard ranged attack (in the case of multiple targets, this result is applied to each target separately), with a -2 penalty for each object thrown beyond the first. Each object deals bludgeoning or piercing damage (DM's choice) depending on it's weight up to 1d6/25lb. Regardless of the item launched, you do not take a non-proficiency penalty for this attack. Weapons launched with this power deal bludgeoning damage according to their weight unless you are proficient with them, at which point you may deal normal weapon damage (and damage type) instead. The object or weapon deals an additional +1d6 damage for each full 10ft of movement it had remaining when it hits. The critical threat of weapons used this way is 20/x2, only one roll need be made to confirm all attacks and criticals made with a single use of Force Blast. Any enchantments or abilities the weapon/s may have are applied individually. The keen enchantment, or any similar ability involving critical threat ranges does not apply. A flaming burst weapon would always consider it's threat range as 20/x2.

You may also focus this ability in an attempt to rip the target apart from the inside. The Telekineticist makes a single standard ranged touch attack (in the case of multiple targets, this result is applied to each target separately), with a -2 penalty for each blast after the first. This attack deals 1D4/2 class levels force damage and the target must succeed on a fortitude save or be nauseated for 1D4 rounds. This ability only functions within the range of your Hands. This ability effects objects.

Wild Talent: You gain the feat Wild Talent as a bonus feat.

Telekinetic Fighting(SU):

Least:
At 2nd level The Telekineticist may use Hands to wield weapons he is proficient with and fight within the range of his Hands. Any weapon wielded in this fashion may be moved up to 30ft in a round as a free action.

As a standard action, you may make a single melee attack with one such weapon, using Charisma instead of Strength for the to hit and damage rolls. You only threaten squares within your physical reach, if the weapon is beyond this range it does not threaten on it's own. A one-handed or smaller weapon requires one Hand and a two-handed weapon requires two Hands to use. Any weapon(s) held by your Hands may have additional Hands added to it, each increasing the damage by 1/2 charisma modifier.

The Telekineticist suffers -2 to hit and a -1 to damage for every 10ft increment between the weapon and The Telekineticist, to a maximum of the range of his Hands. He may maintain this effect for a number of rounds equal to his constitution modifier per encounter.

Lesser:
At 6th level you may make a full attack with the weapon(s) you are wielding with Telekinetic Fighting. You may not make more attacks than you could with a single weapon, even if you have the Two Weapon Fighting or Multi-Attack feats, but you may spread your iterative attacks between weapons at no penalty, although the range penalty still applies. You may now hold a light or heavy shield with one Hand or a tower shield in two Hands. Such a shield may occupy any square including your own or those of your allies (but not an enemy's) and confers on anyone in that square the shield's AC bonus as a shield bonus to their own AC.

The duration you may maintain this effect is increased to you Constitution Score.

Improved:
You may now make as many attacks as you are capable of, including Two Weapon Fighting or Multi-Attack. You may wield a weapon of a larger size category than you normally could for your size. For every size category larger than normal, the weapon requires an additional Hand to wield, these Hands do not add extra damage, but you may add further Hands to do so.

The duration you may maintain this effect is removed.

Greater:
At 16th level you no longer take the -2 to hit and -1 to damage for every 10ft between you and your weapon, but you are still limited to the range of your Hands. Also, as a standard action you may attack once with each weapon wielded by your Telekinetic Fighting. This is done with a single attack roll at your highest attack bonus, but takes a penalty to hit equal to the number of weapons being wielded -1.

Telekinetic Reach(SU): At third level, any weapon you are wielding with your Telekinetic Fighting threatens adjacent squares as normal for a weapon of it's type. If the weapon has the reach quality then calculate accordingly.

Far Trick(SU):Starting at 4th lvl when your powers start to mature, you gain the ability to make specific types of attacks within the range of your Hands. These work as normal except Charisma is used instead of any physical score, and your size bonus (or penalty) does not apply to these checks.

Each ability initially receives a penalty of -1/10ft away from the target you are. Each ability requires one hand to activate.

At 4th level you may attempt to break down a door or bullrush an opponent.

At 8th level you may attempt disarm attempts against foes. The penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/20ft.

At 12th level you may attempt trip attempts against foes. The penalty for disarming is reduced to -1/20ft, and the penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/40ft.

At 16th level you may attempt to grapple foes. The penalty for tripping is reduced to -1/20ft, the penalty for disarming is reduced to -1/40ft, and the penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/80ft.

Minds eye(SU): At 5th level, as a full round action you may gain blindsight out to half the range of your Hands until the end of your next turn. You must be psionically focused to do this.

At 10th level this increases to the full range of your Hands.

At 15th level you may maintain this ability indefinitely with one hand.

At 20th level this ability no longer requires a Hand to maintain and is always active (even when you are not psionically focused).

Martial Skill (EX): You may not be a fighter, but you understand weapons of war.

At 5th level you gain two additional martial weapon proficiencies of your choice.

At 9th level you gain two more additional martial weapon proficiencies of your choice.

At 14th level you gain one additional martial weapon proficiency and one additional exotic weapon proficiency of your choice.

At 19th level you gain two additional exotic weapon proficiencies of your choice.

Telekinetic Flight(SU): You have finally mastered moving yourself using your Hands. One Hand is required to initiate and sustain flight. If you reach the duration of the ability, you immediately descend directly downwards at a rate equal to the fly speed (taking falling damage if you fail to reach solid ground in this distance) and become fatigued for 1d4 rounds. You may not initiate this ability if you are fatigued

At 7th level, you may fly at a speed of 30ft with perfect maneuverability for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom modifier. You may keep this flight up indefinitely by using three hands.

At 11th level, your fly speed increases to 40ft and you may stay aloft for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom score. You only need two to keep this up indefinitely.

At 13th level, your fly speed increases to 60ft and may be sustained indefinitely with only one Hand.

Focused Shield(SU):At 9th level you may create a barrier with your Hands as a move action. Any unattended objects or projectiles (including spells which require an attack roll) are instantly stopped and cannot pass through. If a creature attempts to pass through, it suffers an immediate bullrush attack upon contact with the barrier, as if the barrier were a gargantuan creature with a Strength score equal to your Charisma score. If the barrier wins the opposed check, the creature is pushed back 5ft (but no more, since the barrier cannot move from the squares it has been placed in). If the creature wins, it forces it's way through the barrier, causing it to disperse.

In either case the creature takes force damage equal to 1D6 +1/ class level. The barrier is a 10ft pane, positioned as you please within Telekinesis range and requires 1 Hand to maintain. You may create and maintain multiple barriers at once, any number of barriers may be set as part of the same move action so long as you have enough hands free to create them.

You may invest 1 more Hand to increase the damage dealt to 1D6/ class level

Critical Thinking(EX): Starting at 11th level, you have learned how to wield a weapon in the most dangerous fashion.

At level 11 weapons with which you are proficient used in Force Blast get their normal critical threat range.

At level 18 all weapons wielded with Telekinetic Hands get their normal threat range and are treated as though you had Improved Critical. You do not actually gain the feat, and it does not count for prerequisites. This ability stacks in the same way as the feat.

Ghostly Hand(SU): At 12th level, your abilities become capable of affecting ethereal objects and enemies. Objects thrown using Force Blast must be ethereal to do so, but weapons wielded using Telekinetic Fighting are treated as being both corporeal and ethereal from now on.

At 17th level all your abilities can effect creatures and objects from any coterminous planes.

Disrupting Throw(SU): At 15th level, as an immediate action, you may attempt an attack of opportunity against any opponent up to 5ft/class level away. They must have just taken an action which would provoke an attack of opportunity were you adjacent to them, but you need not be threatening the opponent. You may use your Force Blast ability, or any of the abilities you know through Far Trick. This counts towards your attacks of opportunity for the round.

Master Of The Far Hand(EX): At 20th level, you have reached the pinnacle of your mental power. Reality becomes an illusion which you can bend like putty, and many of your abilities are enhanced as follows:

All your Telekinesis dependent abilities are now considered Extraordinary.

Your Disrupting Throw becomes a free action, still taking up an attack of opportunity per use. It may also be used anywhere within your Telekinesis range.

Your flight speed increases to 120ft.

You no longer take range penalties to your far tricks.

You count as using twice as many hands as you devote to Mental Strength for performing acts of manual dexterity.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

ACFs

Pure Telekineticist.

Replaces: Martial Skill, Telekinetic Fighting, Martial Weapon Proficiency, and Telekinetic Reach.

Benefit:The number of Hands you have is increased to 1 Hand/Class Level. The range of your telekinesis increases to 20ft/level.


Unarmed Telekineticist

Replaces: Martial Skill, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Medium Armor Proficiency.

Benefit: You may generate weapons of pure force. These deal damage equal to 1d6/Hand force damage. They gain a bonus to hit and to damage equal to 1/2*Charisma Modifier*Invested Hands + 1. These are treated as weapons the Telekineticist is proficient with for all purposes. Their critical range is 20/x2.



Magic Items
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Miniature Boulder:
This item is very useful to a Telekineticist. It has the dimensions of a marble, and weighs much the same.
As a move action (or free action with the quick draw feat) the marble can be activated. After its activation, the marble can be made to weigh up to 500lb, always growing to a foot diameter sphere. Another move action is required to reduce it back down to marble size.

Ok That edit has the table fixes should the class not change.

This one will have what the class would look like (at present) if it changed. Keep in mind, for this change to really matter, we would need more options.

Also, should we split up the scaling into multiple abilities and then give the class enough ability choices to chose them all or make it so even as is they have to chose? I'll just make the one for as is right now...with splitting up the abilities.
Also, I really feel like epic is going to have a problem as stands...so these edits will have a modified capstone please look over it.


This is in need of PEACH. Just skip past the old comments.


Special thanks to VEKLIM for editing. It was a lot messier before.
Really, first time I got an editor, and the class is better for it...

So, I have tried to make blasters. They have all been kinda busy, and introduce too many new concepts. So going to try a different tact, something in line with an invoker.

The Telekineticist. A rather long name but oh well.

When the psionic talent begins to surface, they show odd signs. Some of these show it through the sudden movement of objects. Flying plates and tables mark a developing psion, yet some never grow out of it. These psions grow in power, standing up to psions in their own right as masters of psionic power.




Characteristics: The Telekineticist relies on its mind to create force affects. This can range from throwing a mass at a foe, throwing a foe, fighting with a weapon held with his mind, even to full power flight!

Alignment: The Telekineticist can be of any alignment. The power of the mind bares no alignment above others.

Religion: The Telekineticist favors gods of battle and psionics.

Races: Humans are drawn to this class like any other. Small races also enjoy this class, as it lets them use brains in place of brawn. Any mining race tends to have many Telekineticists since they aid in the mining process. All psionic races tend to favor this class like any other psionic class.

Other Classes: Martial classes tend to dislike The Telekineticist, as they seem too magical to be true martial. Magical classes enjoy The Telekineticist, as they seem to merely be imitating their own power.

Role: Can take on the role of a secondary tank, or perhaps stealth. But this class shines at battle field control. With numerous abilities for punishing foes unwilling to move as he wishes, and the ability to physically move foes into a formation of his choice, he can add some useful utility outside of combat while performing numerous tricks at a distance.

Game Rule Information:
Abilities:Charisma is very important, as it is the strength of The Telekineticist. Wisdom allows The Telekineticist to maintain effects longer, and constitution helps The Telekineticist stay alive while increasing maximum Hands.

Alignment: Any

Hit Die: d8

The Telekineticist
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|TK Maneuvers

1st|+1|+0|+0|+2| Telekinetic Hands, Mental Strength, Force Blast, Wild Talent | -

2nd|+2|+0|+0|+3| Telekinetic Maneuvers |1

3rd|+3|+1|+1|+3||2

4th|+4|+1|+1|+4||3

5th|+5|+1|+1|+4||5

6th|+6/+1|+2|+2|+5||6

7th|+7/+2|+2|+2|+5||7

8th|+8/+3|+2|+2|+6||8

9th|+9/+4|+3|+3|+6||10

10th|+10/+5|+3|+3|+7||12

11th|+11/+6/+1|+3|+3|+7||14

12th|+12/+7/+2|+4|+4|+8||16

13th|+13/+8/+3|+4|+4|+8||17

14th|+14/+9/+4|+4|+4|+9||18

15th|+15/+10/+5|+5|+5|+9||20

16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+5|+5|+10||22

17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+5|+5|+10||23

18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+6|+6|+11||24

19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+6|+6|+11||25

20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+6|+6|+12| Master Of The Far Hand |26
[/table]

Class Skills

The Telekineticist's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are; Auto Hypnosis(Con), Balance(Dex), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Escape artist(Dex), Knowledge (Psionics)(Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Slight of hand(Dex), Tumble(Dex), Use Psionic Device(Cha), and Psicraft (Int).

Skill Points at First Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

Proficiencies: A Telekineticist is proficient with all Simple weapons and one martial melee weapon of their choice. They are also proficient with light and medium armor, and all shields.

Telekinetic Hands(SU): The Telekineticist has limited capability with his power. This capability is known as Telekinetic Hands, or just Hands. The Telekineticist has a number of Hands equal to 1 + 1/3 class levels + your Constitution modifier. These Hands have a range equal to 10ft/ class level.

If an ability that uses Hands requires a save, it has a DC of 10 + 1/2 class levels + charisma modifier. If they require a physical ability score (such as an opposed strength checks for a trip attempt), use the Charisma modifier instead. To use his Hands he must be psionically focused, although he does not expend his focus by doing so.

Any hand which is used for a non-sustained ability is considered used until the start of your next turn, and any hand used for a sustained ability is considered used until the ability is released.

Mental Strength(SU): The Telekineticist can move an object with his mind, or perform some act of manual dexterity at any distance within the range of his Hands as a standard action. He may move up to 50lb/level at a rate of 30' per action, objects up to 100lb/level at a rate of 20' per action with one Hand or 30' with two Hands, and objects up to 150lb/level at a rate of 10' per action with one Hand, 20' with two Hands or 30' with three Hands. These movements are not limited in direction, but do have a limited duration. The Telekineticist can maintain pressure for up to wisdom modifier rounds, after that the object drops to the ground and the Telekineticist is fatigued for 1d4 rounds. You may not initiate this ability if you are fatigued.

Creatures may be moved in this way, but they get a will save to negate the effects. Any movement from this ability provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. The Telekineticist may not use this ability on himself.

Objects weighing 25lb + 25lb/3 levels may be maintained without limit with one Hand. For two Hands, this becomes 25lb + 25lb/2 levels instead, and for three Hands this limit becomes 25lb + 25lb/level.

The Telekineticist can also perform a feat of manual dexterity anywhere within the maximum range of his powers. This manipulation is limited by the number of hands used. If you wish to do something which would require two physical hands to achieve (like tie a knot in some rope), then you must use at least 2 hands. No additional effect is had by using more Hands than necessary for any given action.

Force Blast(SU):As a standard action, the Telekineticist can launch a number of objects within the range of his Hands. Each object may weigh no more than 25lb/level, and requires the use of a single Hand/object. The object(s) travel up to 10ft/level and this movement may take it outside of the Hands range.

The Telekineticist makes a single standard ranged attack (in the case of multiple targets, this result is applied to each target separately), with a -2 penalty for each object thrown beyond the first. Each object deals bludgeoning or piercing damage (DM's choice) depending on it's weight up to 1d6/25lb. Regardless of the item launched, you do not take a non-proficiency penalty for this attack. Weapons launched with this power deal bludgeoning damage according to their weight unless you are proficient with them, at which point you may deal normal weapon damage (and damage type) instead. The object or weapon deals an additional +1d6 damage for each full 10ft of movement it had remaining when it hits. The critical threat of weapons used this way is 20/x2, only one roll need be made to confirm all attacks and criticals made with a single use of Force Blast. Any enchantments or abilities the weapon/s may have are applied individually. The keen enchantment, or any similar ability involving critical threat ranges does not apply. A flaming burst weapon would always consider it's threat range as 20/x2.

You may also focus this ability in an attempt to rip the target apart from the inside. The Telekineticist makes a single standard ranged touch attack (in the case of multiple targets, this result is applied to each target separately), with a -2 penalty for each blast after the first. This attack deals 1D4/2 class levels force damage and the target must succeed on a fortitude save or be nauseated for 1D4 rounds. This ability only functions within the range of your Hands. This ability effects objects.

Wild Talent: You gain the feat Wild Talent as a bonus feat.

Master Of The Far Hand(EX): At 20th level, you have reached the pinnacle of your mental power. Reality becomes an illusion which you can bend like putty, and many of your abilities are enhanced as follows:

Your Telekinetic Maneuvers, Telekinetic Hands, Mental Strength, and Force Blast abilities are now considered Extraordinary.

If you chose Disrupting Throw, it becomes a free action, still taking up an attack of opportunity per use. It may also be used anywhere within your Telekinesis range.

If you chose Telekinetic Flight: Lesser, your flight speed increases to 120ft.

If you chose Far Trick, of any level, you no longer take range penalties to your far tricks.

The number of hands gained from all sources past, present, and future are doubled from their listed value.



Telekinetic Maneuvers: As you grow in power you gain Telekinetic Maneuvers. These maneuvers are the true representation of you power. You gain these in accordance with the table above. They are all the abilities that follow.


Critical Thinking: Least(EX):
Requirements: Level 11
You have learned how to wield a weapon in the most dangerous fashion.

Weapons with which you are proficient that are used in Force Blast get their normal critical threat range.

Critical Thinking: Lesser(EX):
Requirements: Level 18, Critical Thinking: Least
All weapons wielded with Telekinetic Hands get their normal threat range and are treated as though you had Improved Critical. You do not actually gain the feat, and it does not count for prerequisites. This ability stacks in the same way as the feat.


Disrupting Throw(SU):
Requirements: Level 15
As an immediate action, you may attempt an attack of opportunity against any opponent up to 5ft/class level away. They must have just taken an action which would provoke an attack of opportunity were you adjacent to them, but you need not be threatening the opponent. You may use your Force Blast ability, or any of the abilities you know through Far Trick. This counts towards your attacks of opportunity for the round.


Far Trick: Least(SU):
Requirements: Level 4
Your powers start to mature, you gain the ability to make specific types of attacks within the range of your Hands. These work as normal except Charisma is used instead of any physical score, and your size bonus (or penalty) does not apply to these checks.

Each ability initially receives a penalty of -1/10ft away from the target you are. Each ability requires one hand to activate.

You may attempt to break down a door or bullrush an opponent.

Far Trick: Lesser(SU):
Requirements: Level 8, Far Trick: Least
You may attempt disarm attempts against foes. The penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/20ft.

Far Trick: Improved(SU):
Requirements: Level 12, Far Trick: Lesser
You may attempt trip attempts against foes. The penalty for disarming is reduced to -1/20ft, and the penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/40ft.

Far Trick: Greater(SU):
Requirements: Level 16, Far Trick: Improved
You may attempt to grapple foes. The penalty for tripping is reduced to -1/20ft, the penalty for disarming is reduced to -1/40ft, and the penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/80ft.


Focused Shield(SU):
Requirements: Level 9
You may create a barrier with your Hands as a move action. Any unattended objects or projectiles (including spells which require an attack roll) are instantly stopped and cannot pass through. If a creature attempts to pass through, it suffers an immediate bullrush attack upon contact with the barrier, as if the barrier were a gargantuan creature with a Strength score equal to your Charisma score. If the barrier wins the opposed check, the creature is pushed back 5ft (but no more, since the barrier cannot move from the squares it has been placed in). If the creature wins, it forces it's way through the barrier, causing it to disperse.

In either case the creature takes force damage equal to 1D6 +1/ class level. The barrier is a 10ft pane, positioned as you please within Telekinesis range and requires 1 Hand to maintain. You may create and maintain multiple barriers at once, any number of barriers may be set as part of the same move action so long as you have enough hands free to create them.

You may invest 1 more Hand to increase the damage dealt to 1D6/ class level


Ghostly Hand: Least(SU):
Requirements: Level 12
Your abilities become capable of affecting ethereal objects and enemies. Objects thrown using Force Blast must be ethereal to do so, but weapons wielded using Telekinetic Fighting are treated as being both corporeal and ethereal from now on.

Ghostly Hand:Lesser(SU):
Requirements: Level 17
All your abilities can effect creatures and objects from any coterminous planes.


Martial Skill: Least(EX):
Requirements: Level 5
You may not be a fighter, but you understand weapons of war.

You gain two additional martial weapon proficiencies of your choice.

Martial Skill: Lesser(EX):
Requirements: Level 9, Martial Skill: Least
You gain two more additional martial weapon proficiencies of your choice.

Martial Skill: Improved(EX):
Requirements: Level 14, Martial Skill:Lesser
You gain one additional martial weapon proficiency and one additional exotic weapon proficiency of your choice.

Martial Skill: Greater(EX):
Requirements: Level 19, Martial Skill: Improved
You gain two additional exotic weapon proficiencies of your choice.


Minds Eye: Least(SU):
Requirements: Level 5
As a full round action you may gain blindsight out to half the range of your Hands until the end of your next turn. You must be psionically focused to do this.

Minds Eye: Lesser(SU):
Requirements: Level 10, Mind's Eye: Least
The blindsight gained increases to the full range of your Hands.

Minds Eye: Improved(SU):
Requirements: Level 15, Mind's Eye: Lesser
This ability may be maintained indefinitely with one Hand.

Minds Eye: Greater(SU):
Requirements: Level 20, Mind's Eye: Improved
This ability no longer requires a Hand to maintain and is always active (even when you are not psionically focused).


Telekinetic Fighting: Least(SU):
Requirements: Level 2

At 2nd level The Telekineticist may use Hands to wield weapons he is proficient with and fight within the range of his Hands. Any weapon wielded in this fashion may be moved up to 30ft in a round as a free action.

As a standard action, you may make a single melee attack with one such weapon, using Charisma instead of Strength for the to hit and damage rolls. You only threaten squares within your physical reach, if the weapon is beyond this range it does not threaten on it's own. A one-handed or smaller weapon requires one Hand and a two-handed weapon requires two Hands to use. Any weapon(s) held by your Hands may have additional Hands added to it, each increasing the damage by 1/2 charisma modifier.

The Telekineticist suffers -2 to hit and a -1 to damage for every 10ft increment between the weapon and The Telekineticist, to a maximum of the range of his Hands. He may maintain this effect for a number of rounds equal to his constitution modifier per encounter.

Telekinetic Fighting: Lesser(SU):
Requirements: Level 6 Telekinetic Fighting: Least

You may make a full attack with the weapon(s) you are wielding with Telekinetic Fighting. You may not make more attacks than you could with a single weapon, even if you have the Two Weapon Fighting or Multi-Attack feats, but you may spread your iterative attacks between weapons at no penalty, although the range penalty still applies. You may now hold a light or heavy shield with one Hand or a tower shield in two Hands. Such a shield may occupy any square including your own or those of your allies (but not an enemy's) and confers on anyone in that square the shield's AC bonus as a shield bonus to their own AC.

The duration you may maintain this effect is increased to you Constitution Score.

Telekinetic Fighting: Improved(SU):
Requirements: Level 11, Telekinetic Fighting: Lesser

You may now make as many attacks as you are capable of, including Two Weapon Fighting or Multi-Attack. You may wield a weapon of a larger size category than you normally could for your size. For every size category larger than normal, the weapon requires an additional Hand to wield, these Hands do not add extra damage, but you may add further Hands to do so.

The duration you may maintain this effect is removed.

Telekinetic Fighting: Greater(SU):
Requirements: Level 16, Telekinetic Fighting: Improved

You no longer take the -2 to hit and -1 to damage for every 10ft between you and your weapon, but you are still limited to the range of your Hands. Also, as a standard action you may attack once with each weapon wielded by your Telekinetic Fighting. This is done with a single attack roll at your highest attack bonus, but takes a penalty to hit equal to the number of weapons being wielded -1.


Telekinetic Flight: Least(SU):
Requirements: Level 7
You have finally mastered moving yourself using your Hands. One Hand is required to initiate and sustain flight. If you reach the duration of the ability, you immediately descend directly downwards at a rate equal to the fly speed (taking falling damage if you fail to reach solid ground in this distance) and become fatigued for 1d4 rounds. You may not initiate this ability if you are fatigued

You may fly at a speed of 30ft with perfect maneuverability for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom modifier. You may keep this flight up indefinitely by using three hands.

Telekinetic Flight: Lesser(SU):
Requirements: Level 11, Telekinetic Flight: Least
Your fly speed increases to 40ft and you may stay aloft for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom score. You only need two Hands to keep this up indefinitely.

Telekinetic Flight: Improved(SU):
Requirements: Level 13, Telekinetic Flight: Lesser
Your fly speed increases to 60ft and may be sustained indefinitely with only one Hand.


Telekinetic Reach(SU):
Requirements: Level 3, Telekinetic Fighting: Least
Any weapon you are wielding with your Telekinetic Fighting threatens adjacent squares as normal for a weapon of it's type. If the weapon has the reach quality then calculate accordingly.


Because this became a choice based class, I reordered the ability section to put them in alphabetical order. I also split up the current skills that progress into sub skills keeping the naming scheme from TK Fighting.

At present the rate that you gain TK Maneuvers makes little sense as all I did was give 1 point for every ability they gained in a given level. Also some of the abilities don't scale at a fixed rate...

Veklim
2012-03-01, 10:01 AM
OK, first off, the table/class as originally designed is finished, CELEBRATION COMMENCES! :smallbiggrin:

Now that's out of the way, your idea for the ability options is a good one, but much of what is written down needs a serious tweak in one way or another, and I feel there should be some static bonii. Telekinetic Flight, Ghostly Hand and Focused Shield should all be permanent on the class list at certain levels (if we can space them out to perhaps 3rd, 5th, 7th, etc or every 3rd level maybe, that would be good. Then every other level you get a choice of one of the other abilities, the requirements will all have to reshuffle a bit because of this, but that's fine.

I think there's arguement for making Focused Shield a 2 tier ability, and all 2 tier abilities should probably use the [name], Improved [name] format. Keep the Least [name], Lesser [name], Improved [name], Greater [name] format for abilities with 4 tiers.

Doing it this way allows us to open up psi-like abilities from more disciplines as choices, although psychoportation, psychokinesis and telepathy are the only 3 I'd feel should be used (this guy shouldn't step on too many toes imo).

Bobthe6th mentioned using the 3 BAB progressions as a starting point for all options, I think this prototype rework may make sense as being an average progression to begin with, using ACFs for full and poor BAB progressions, then we would have the Pure TK using poor BAB, and the Combat TK as full BAB, the 'standard' class with average BAB is the battlefield control class with the most options. You would have to remove certain options from the list and make them replace options for the ACF, but it's the best/only way I can see of allowing a class to slide between poor, average and full BAB without completely ignoring balance altogether! :smalleek:

Regardless of what else happens though, I think bobthe6th should first take the finally finished class and table and pop them up top of the 1st post, then we can see what he thinks about us undoing everyone's hard work and rebuilding his brainchild with the new concept... :smallwink:

DerTollUdo
2012-03-01, 01:22 PM
I stick with keeping BAB as it is.

The options that are here could also be reworked so that you get 1 ability every other level and they kept their normal progressions.

I say let's add more abilities. Or take what we have and improve it while adding more abilities.

I am not a fan of the telepathy at all. It isn't the feel of a Telekineticist. Psycoportation could be something I could see.

Examples of things that would I would want to see here:

Improve the Focused shield. Add shapeability, more area, add more damage, add some kind of other function perhaps.

Add something that manipulates gravity/air density. For example create singularities or repulsion fields. Or create the ability to increase the air density around you to simulate that of water (lots of fun penalties to through at people lol).

You already have TK, is it that far of a stretch to say you can mess with sound waves for sonic damage and stuff or increase/decrease the molecules movement speed for fire/cold damage. Maybe add that to the wall?

I really feel that we can do so much with the wall...

EDIT: Thoughts on capstone change?

Veklim
2012-03-01, 04:43 PM
I stick with keeping BAB as it is.
Hrmmm, fair enough. The idea of dropping to average or poor for the remaining ACFs is reasonable I guess. My idea was to use a poor BAB for the Pure TK, but give them faaaaar better direct TK damage and more hands. I also thought that just making you count as using twice as many hands as you are, essentially doubling the effective power and/or utility per hand, instead of doubling the actual number (we can make them gain Con SCORE extra hands instead of con bonus at a certain level) so the ACF wouldn't need to double all the numbers and they'd potentially GAIN utility over the current model....
We could also use average BAB for the ACF I made, I do realise you're not a fan...

I am not a fan of the telepathy at all. It isn't the feel of a Telekineticist. Psycoportation could be something I could see.
...but others will be, and this is meant to be a class with options. I'm thinking I'll re-word it though, and give something akin to a psionic domain for this ACF, listing a granted power/ability augmentation and a list of powers gained for each of the psionic disciplines. That way you can choose to specialise in ANY of them, not just telepathy. I'll put that together for now, and post all discipline domains together in a day or two.


The options that are here could also be reworked so that you get 1 ability every other level and they kept their normal progressions...I say let's add more abilities. Or take what we have and improve it while adding more abilities.Yes, yes and yes. Thinking we should leave the domains seperate for now though. They feel more ACF than class option, and there's lots of other things we can do for class features. I'll see if I can compile a shortlist of the suggestions I've been given by my group, all of whom are kinda useless and refuse to come on here to help directly :smallannoyed: Bloody players...ruin all my fun...kill my npcs on a whim...fail to help brew stuff for their own benefit...grumble mumble groan...


Improve the Focused shield. Add shapeability, more area, add more damage, add some kind of other function perhaps...mess with sound waves for sonic damage and stuff or increase/decrease the molecules movement speed for fire/cold damage. Maybe add that to the wall...I really feel that we can do so much with the wall...This was a thought I had too, adding various elemental descriptors and add-on effects to the Focused Shield ability. I feel the basis of the Focused Shield is a core class ability, but all the upgrades and enhancements should be presented as options. That way everyone can make one, but no two Telekineticist shields are neccessarily entirely alike. Nice flavour to that, I like it at least.


Add something that manipulates gravity/air density. For example create singularities or repulsion fields. Or create the ability to increase the air density around you to simulate that of water (lots of fun penalties to through at people lol).This is all to do with battlefield control abilities, we can brainstorm some ideas on such and figure out progressions, sure. We need to aim for at least 3 options per level though, and of course allow people to take a bunch of early options instead if they should so wish.


EDIT: Thoughts on capstone change?I think the capstone should wait for the re-working. We can have a 'Capstone Enhancement' section for each ability tree, which comes into effect at level 20 as long as you took the whole ability tree (or enough to reach the Capstone Enhancement), that way each ability option lists the capstone, and negates the need to keep rewording/fiddling the capstone as we go. Also avoids marginalising any one option, anything can get better as long as you focused enough.

Emmerlaus
2012-03-01, 04:51 PM
I know its not about the subject and that Im being a troll... but what does PEACH mean? I know its a fruit but I belive its not what this is about...

I tried to look on th net but didnt found out...

Veklim
2012-03-01, 04:55 PM
Please Examine And Critique Honestly

No worries dude, if more people asked, more people would know :smallwink:

DerTollUdo
2012-03-02, 11:16 AM
So with that being said, any PEACH? :)

Re'ozul
2012-03-03, 06:34 AM
Before I go further into things I have to ask the following.

1) Is the Endurance on the table just a leftover from an earlier version or is it still somehow relevant?
2) Telekinesis says that: "As a standard action he can perform a number of actions, referred to as 'hands', equal to 1/3 class levels (minimum 1) out to a range of 10ft/class level."
Would that mean that if I have 3 hands (level 9) I could initiate 3 bullrushes as a standard action? Or can you still only do one action, but (if possible) assign more hands to it?

Veklim
2012-03-03, 06:41 AM
The 1st post hasn't been updated in a while, scroll up a few and you'll find the latest edit of the class in one of the spoilers above. It's right here:


This is in need of PEACH. Just skip past the old comments.


Special thanks to VEKLIM for editing. It was a lot messier before.
Really, first time I got an editor, and the class is better for it...

So, I have tried to make blasters. They have all been kinda busy, and introduce too many new concepts. So going to try a different tact, something in line with an invoker.

The Telekineticist. A rather long name but oh well.

When the psionic talent begins to surface, they show odd signs. Some of these show it through the sudden movement of objects. Flying plates and tables mark a developing psion, yet some never grow out of it. These psions grow in power, standing up to psions in their own right as masters of psionic power.




Characteristics: The Telekineticist relies on its mind to create force affects. This can range from throwing a mass at a foe, throwing a foe, fighting with a weapon held with his mind, even to full power flight!

Alignment: The Telekineticist can be of any alignment. The power of the mind bares no alignment above others.

Religion: The Telekineticist favors gods of battle and psionics.

Races: Humans are drawn to this class like any other. Small races also enjoy this class, as it lets them use brains in place of brawn. Any mining race tends to have many Telekineticists since they aid in the mining process. All psionic races tend to favor this class like any other psionic class.

Other Classes: Martial classes tend to dislike The Telekineticist, as they seem too magical to be true martial. Magical classes enjoy The Telekineticist, as they seem to merely be imitating their own power.

Role: Can take on the role of a secondary tank, or perhaps stealth. But this class shines at battle field control. With numerous abilities for punishing foes unwilling to move as he wishes, and the ability to physically move foes into a formation of his choice, he can add some useful utility outside of combat while performing numerous tricks at a distance.

Game Rule Information:
Abilities:Charisma is very important, as it is the strength of The Telekineticist. Wisdom allows The Telekineticist to maintain effects longer, and constitution helps The Telekineticist stay alive while increasing maximum Hands.

Alignment: Any

Hit Die: d8

The Telekineticist
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

1st|+1|+0|+0|+2| Telekinetic Hands, Mental Strength, Force Blast, Wild Talent

2nd|+2|+0|+0|+3| Telekinetic Fighting: Least

3rd|+3|+1|+1|+3|Telekinetic Reach

4th|+4|+1|+1|+4| Far Trick

5th|+5|+1|+1|+4| Martial Skill, Mind's Eye

6th|+6/+1|+2|+2|+5| Telekinetic Fighting: Lesser

7th|+7/+2|+2|+2|+5| Telekinetic Flight

8th|+8/+3|+2|+2|+6| Far Trick

9th|+9/+4|+3|+3|+6| Martial Skill, Focused Shield

10th|+10/+5|+3|+3|+7| Telekinetic Flight: Improved, Mind's Eye

11th|+11/+6/+1|+3|+3|+7| Telekinetic Fighting: Improved, Critical Thinking

12th|+12/+7/+2|+4|+4|+8| Far Trick, Ghostly Hand

13th|+13/+8/+3|+4|+4|+8| Telekinetic Flight: Greater

14th|+14/+9/+4|+4|+4|+9| Martial Skill

15th|+15/+10/+5|+5|+5|+9| Disrupting Throw, Mind's Eye

16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+5|+5|+10| Far Trick, Telekinetic Fighting: Greater

17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+5|+5|+10| Ghostly Hand

18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+6|+6|+11| Critical Thinking

19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+6|+6|+11| Martial Skill

20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+6|+6|+12| Master Of The Far Hand, Mind's Eye
[/table]

Class Skills

The Telekineticist's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are; Auto Hypnosis(Con), Balance(Dex), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Escape artist(Dex), Knowledge (Psionics)(Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Slight of hand(Dex), Tumble(Dex), Use Psionic Device(Cha), and Psicraft (Int).

Skill Points at First Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

Proficiencies: A Telekineticist is proficient with all Simple weapons and one martial melee weapon of their choice. They are also proficient with light and medium armor, and all shields.

Telekinetic Hands(SU): The Telekineticist has limited capability with his power. This capability is known as Telekinetic Hands, or just Hands. The Telekineticist has a number of Hands equal to 1 + 1/3 class levels + your Constitution modifier. These Hands have a range equal to 10ft/ class level.

If an ability that uses Hands requires a save, it has a DC of 10 + 1/2 class levels + charisma modifier. If they require a physical ability score (such as an opposed strength checks for a trip attempt), use the Charisma modifier instead. To use his Hands he must be psionically focused, although he does not expend his focus by doing so.

Any hand which is used for a non-sustained ability is considered used until the start of your next turn, and any hand used for a sustained ability is considered used until the ability is released.

Mental Strength(SU): The Telekineticist can move an object with his mind, or perform some act of manual dexterity at any distance within the range of his Hands as a standard action. He may move up to 50lb/level at a rate of 30' per action, objects up to 100lb/level at a rate of 20' per action with one Hand or 30' with two Hands, and objects up to 150lb/level at a rate of 10' per action with one Hand, 20' with two Hands or 30' with three Hands. These movements are not limited in direction, but do have a limited duration. The Telekineticist can maintain pressure for up to wisdom modifier rounds, after that the object drops to the ground and the Telekineticist is fatigued for 1d4 rounds. You may not initiate this ability if you are fatigued.

Creatures may be moved in this way, but they get a will save to negate the effects. Any movement from this ability provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. The Telekineticist may not use this ability on himself.

Objects weighing 25lb + 25lb/3 levels may be maintained without limit with one Hand. For two Hands, this becomes 25lb + 25lb/2 levels instead, and for three Hands this limit becomes 25lb + 25lb/level.

The Telekineticist can also perform a feat of manual dexterity anywhere within the maximum range of his powers. This manipulation is limited by the number of hands used. If you wish to do something which would require two physical hands to achieve (like tie a knot in some rope), then you must use at least 2 hands. No additional effect is had by using more Hands than necessary for any given action.

Force Blast(SU):As a standard action, the Telekineticist can launch a number of objects within the range of his Hands. Each object may weigh no more than 25lb/level, and requires the use of a single Hand/object. The object(s) travel up to 10ft/level and this movement may take it outside of the Hands range.

The Telekineticist makes a single standard ranged attack (in the case of multiple targets, this result is applied to each target separately), with a -2 penalty for each object thrown beyond the first. Each object deals bludgeoning or piercing damage (DM's choice) depending on it's weight up to 1d6/25lb. Regardless of the item launched, you do not take a non-proficiency penalty for this attack. Weapons launched with this power deal bludgeoning damage according to their weight unless you are proficient with them, at which point you may deal normal weapon damage (and damage type) instead. The object or weapon deals an additional +1d6 damage for each full 10ft of movement it had remaining when it hits. The critical threat of weapons used this way is 20/x2, only one roll need be made to confirm all attacks and criticals made with a single use of Force Blast. Any enchantments or abilities the weapon/s may have are applied individually. The keen enchantment, or any similar ability involving critical threat ranges does not apply. A flaming burst weapon would always consider it's threat range as 20/x2.

You may also focus this ability in an attempt to rip the target apart from the inside. The Telekineticist makes a single standard ranged touch attack (in the case of multiple targets, this result is applied to each target separately), with a -2 penalty for each blast after the first. This attack deals 1D4/2 class levels force damage and the target must succeed on a fortitude save or be nauseated for 1D4 rounds. This ability only functions within the range of your Hands. This ability effects objects.

Wild Talent: You gain the feat Wild Talent as a bonus feat.

Telekinetic Fighting(SU):

Least:
At 2nd level The Telekineticist may use Hands to wield weapons he is proficient with and fight within the range of his Hands. Any weapon wielded in this fashion may be moved up to 30ft in a round as a free action.

As a standard action, you may make a single melee attack with one such weapon, using Charisma instead of Strength for the to hit and damage rolls. You only threaten squares within your physical reach, if the weapon is beyond this range it does not threaten on it's own. A one-handed or smaller weapon requires one Hand and a two-handed weapon requires two Hands to use. Any weapon(s) held by your Hands may have additional Hands added to it, each increasing the damage by 1/2 charisma modifier.

The Telekineticist suffers -2 to hit and a -1 to damage for every 10ft increment between the weapon and The Telekineticist, to a maximum of the range of his Hands. He may maintain this effect for a number of rounds equal to his constitution modifier per encounter.

Lesser:
At 6th level you may make a full attack with the weapon(s) you are wielding with Telekinetic Fighting. You may not make more attacks than you could with a single weapon, even if you have the Two Weapon Fighting or Multi-Attack feats, but you may spread your iterative attacks between weapons at no penalty, although the range penalty still applies. You may now hold a light or heavy shield with one Hand or a tower shield in two Hands. Such a shield may occupy any square including your own or those of your allies (but not an enemy's) and confers on anyone in that square the shield's AC bonus as a shield bonus to their own AC.

The duration you may maintain this effect is increased to you Constitution Score.

Improved:
You may now make as many attacks as you are capable of, including Two Weapon Fighting or Multi-Attack. You may wield a weapon of a larger size category than you normally could for your size. For every size category larger than normal, the weapon requires an additional Hand to wield, these Hands do not add extra damage, but you may add further Hands to do so.

The duration you may maintain this effect is removed.

Greater:
At 16th level you no longer take the -2 to hit and -1 to damage for every 10ft between you and your weapon, but you are still limited to the range of your Hands. Also, as a standard action you may attack once with each weapon wielded by your Telekinetic Fighting. This is done with a single attack roll at your highest attack bonus, but takes a penalty to hit equal to the number of weapons being wielded -1.

Telekinetic Reach(SU): At third level, any weapon you are wielding with your Telekinetic Fighting threatens adjacent squares as normal for a weapon of it's type. If the weapon has the reach quality then calculate accordingly.

Far Trick(SU):Starting at 4th lvl when your powers start to mature, you gain the ability to make specific types of attacks within the range of your Hands. These work as normal except Charisma is used instead of any physical score, and your size bonus (or penalty) does not apply to these checks.

Each ability initially receives a penalty of -1/10ft away from the target you are. Each ability requires one hand to activate.

At 4th level you may attempt to break down a door or bullrush an opponent.

At 8th level you may attempt disarm attempts against foes. The penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/20ft.

At 12th level you may attempt trip attempts against foes. The penalty for disarming is reduced to -1/20ft, and the penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/40ft.

At 16th level you may attempt to grapple foes. The penalty for tripping is reduced to -1/20ft, the penalty for disarming is reduced to -1/40ft, and the penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/80ft.

Minds eye(SU): At 5th level, as a full round action you may gain blindsight out to half the range of your Hands until the end of your next turn. You must be psionically focused to do this.

At 10th level this increases to the full range of your Hands.

At 15th level you may maintain this ability indefinitely with one hand.

At 20th level this ability no longer requires a Hand to maintain and is always active (even when you are not psionically focused).

Martial Skill (EX): You may not be a fighter, but you understand weapons of war.

At 5th level you gain two additional martial weapon proficiencies of your choice.

At 9th level you gain two more additional martial weapon proficiencies of your choice.

At 14th level you gain one additional martial weapon proficiency and one additional exotic weapon proficiency of your choice.

At 19th level you gain two additional exotic weapon proficiencies of your choice.

Telekinetic Flight(SU): You have finally mastered moving yourself using your Hands. One Hand is required to initiate and sustain flight. If you reach the duration of the ability, you immediately descend directly downwards at a rate equal to the fly speed (taking falling damage if you fail to reach solid ground in this distance) and become fatigued for 1d4 rounds. You may not initiate this ability if you are fatigued

At 7th level, you may fly at a speed of 30ft with perfect maneuverability for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom modifier. You may keep this flight up indefinitely by using three hands.

At 11th level, your fly speed increases to 40ft and you may stay aloft for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom score. You only need two to keep this up indefinitely.

At 13th level, your fly speed increases to 60ft and may be sustained indefinitely with only one Hand.

Focused Shield(SU):At 9th level you may create a barrier with your Hands as a move action. Any unattended objects or projectiles (including spells which require an attack roll) are instantly stopped and cannot pass through. If a creature attempts to pass through, it suffers an immediate bullrush attack upon contact with the barrier, as if the barrier were a gargantuan creature with a Strength score equal to your Charisma score. If the barrier wins the opposed check, the creature is pushed back 5ft (but no more, since the barrier cannot move from the squares it has been placed in). If the creature wins, it forces it's way through the barrier, causing it to disperse.

In either case the creature takes force damage equal to 1D6 +1/ class level. The barrier is a 10ft pane, positioned as you please within Telekinesis range and requires 1 Hand to maintain. You may create and maintain multiple barriers at once, any number of barriers may be set as part of the same move action so long as you have enough hands free to create them.

You may invest 1 more Hand to increase the damage dealt to 1D6/ class level

Critical Thinking(EX): Starting at 11th level, you have learned how to wield a weapon in the most dangerous fashion.

At level 11 weapons with which you are proficient used in Force Blast get their normal critical threat range.

At level 18 all weapons wielded with Telekinetic Hands get their normal threat range and are treated as though you had Improved Critical. You do not actually gain the feat, and it does not count for prerequisites. This ability stacks in the same way as the feat.

Ghostly Hand(SU): At 12th level, your abilities become capable of affecting ethereal objects and enemies. Objects thrown using Force Blast must be ethereal to do so, but weapons wielded using Telekinetic Fighting are treated as being both corporeal and ethereal from now on.

At 17th level all your abilities can effect creatures and objects from any coterminous planes.

Disrupting Throw(SU): At 15th level, as an immediate action, you may attempt an attack of opportunity against any opponent up to 5ft/class level away. They must have just taken an action which would provoke an attack of opportunity were you adjacent to them, but you need not be threatening the opponent. You may use your Force Blast ability, or any of the abilities you know through Far Trick. This counts towards your attacks of opportunity for the round.

Master Of The Far Hand(EX): At 20th level, you have reached the pinnacle of your mental power. Reality becomes an illusion which you can bend like putty, and many of your abilities are enhanced as follows:

All your Telekinesis dependent abilities are now considered Extraordinary.

Your Disrupting Throw becomes a free action, still taking up an attack of opportunity per use. It may also be used anywhere within your Telekinesis range.

Your flight speed increases to 120ft.

You no longer take range penalties to your far tricks.

You count as using twice as many hands as you devote to Mental Strength for performing acts of manual dexterity.

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ACFs

Pure Telekineticist.

Replaces: Martial Skill, Telekinetic Fighting, Martial Weapon Proficiency, and Telekinetic Reach.

Benefit:The number of Hands you have is increased to 1 Hand/Class Level. The range of your telekinesis increases to 20ft/level.


Unarmed Telekineticist

Replaces: Martial Skill, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Medium Armor Proficiency.

Benefit: You may generate weapons of pure force. These deal damage equal to 1d6/Hand force damage. They gain a bonus to hit and to damage equal to 1/2*Charisma Modifier*Invested Hands + 1. These are treated as weapons the Telekineticist is proficient with for all purposes. Their critical range is 20/x2.



Magic Items
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Miniature Boulder:
This item is very useful to a Telekineticist. It has the dimensions of a marble, and weighs much the same.
As a move action (or free action with the quick draw feat) the marble can be activated. After its activation, the marble can be made to weigh up to 500lb, always growing to a foot diameter sphere. Another move action is required to reduce it back down to marble size.



The creator behind the class hasn't updated since his editors (DerTollUdo & myself) finished the last set of tweaks!:smallbiggrin:

Some things may need more clarification, but it's a big idea!

Re'ozul
2012-03-03, 09:49 AM
Okay, lets go:

Basics: A d8 and Full-BaB clash a bit in my opinion, but seem okay. After all, the Telekineticist isn't supposed to be in the thick of things but good at fighting.

Good Will-Save is usual for a class like this and I don't see any problems.

Skills: Since he has potential for stealth and usually works from afar I'd consider adding some of the following (bold is what i consider more important): Hide, Move silently, Open Lock, Spot. Also, there is a "making knots in a rope, example but no 'Use Rope'? For shame.

Proficiencies: seems to be in order

BIG QUESTION:
In a lot of the 'hand'-dependant abilities there are mentionings of "with a stndard action and such. Does this mean that you can only ever use one of those abilities at a time or can you combine them?

Example:
Could a high level Telekineticist with say 8 hands, who moved and has a standard action left do the following:
- Throw one rock (Force blast)
- throw one force blast (force blast)
- open a door (Mental Strenght) [Or hold up a grate if that fits better]
- attack with the weapon one of the 'hand's is holding. (telekinetic fighting)
- Initiate a bullrush against an enemy (far trick)
with that one standard action?
(this is just 5 hands but you see where I am going)

Minor Question: Why are all those abilities Su? Wouldn't it make more sense for them to be psi-like?

Telekinetic Hands:
The basis of the class. The revised number of hands works pretty well, giving you maybe 3 from the beginning and more later at a reasonable pace.

Mental Strenght:
This seems a bit weird. Why the fixation on 3 hands for different things? Why not make a baseline for 1 hand and then allow increases.
I could see the following:
"Each hand may move a mass of 50lb/lvl at a speed of 30' per round. For every increase of the weight that is to be moved, the maximum speed is reduced accordingly. Any resulting speed of less than 5'/rd means the object cannot be moved.
Example: Thomas, the third level Telekineticist has access to 4 hands and attempts to lift and transport the corpse of a large hill giant that his party has just slain. The hill giant weighs 600lb. One of Thomas' hands has a base capacity of 150lb at 30' at this point. this would allow him to move the hill giant at a speed of 5'/rd as the weight to move is 4 times the hand's base capability and as such he can only move it at quarter speed. In the same way, using 2 hands would allow him to pick up speed to 15'/rd and using all four would allow him to transport the giant at 30'/rd."
While a bit mathy, this is D&d so most players will have a pretty good grasp on basic math anyway.

Same could be done with the indefinite holding, by just making the basic indefinite weight for one hand 10lb/lvl. That would mean a bit less at first, but isn't that bad and is easier to apply to large numbers of hands (thinking of pure telekineticist mostly).

Force Blast:
Yikes, this can be monstrous.
First thing though, you only mention multiple targets... is it possible to attack one target multiple times (with as many hands as you have)?
If so, then the boulder-based form is too strong and the force-based form is okay.
Overall the difference in damage output between those two is a bit wide. I can see the appeal in the force-version's nauseating capability, but with Full BAB and a good Charisma modifier, you can still hit reliably and if you have a form of supply of big things, you can do near disintegrate level damage against multiple targets.
I am also not a fan of the 'one roll for all thing'. I can see where it might be helpful, but it can go terribly wrong on either side. A nat20 and suddenly all of them hit (they may not crit but they will hit), a string of bad rolls and you are virtually useless for severaly rounds.
Personally I'd say to either tone down the damage of the physical one or up the damage of the force based one to 1d4/lvl.
However, if you can attack one enemy multiple times, then I'd just say tone down the physiacl one's damage as its just insane.
One thing though: Can you throw willing creatures? Can you throw unwilling creatures if they fail a certain number of saves (even if its, 'needs to fail: a will save to notice the force gathering, a reflex save to dodge said force, a fort save to resist said force, only then can it be thrown)? It would be hilarious.
It would also be fun if you could apply more than one hand to a single throw allowing you to throw heavier stuff. So 25lb*hands/level.

Telekinetic Fighting:
Overall I like this version of it, though its still far less useful compared to blasts in earlier levels. Its definitely a good way to provide flanking for your allies.
Least:
Virtually useless at level 2 as you don't even threaten until level 3. If you can combine actions as I described in my BIG Question it becomes a bit better. The conmod duration is very prohibitive and if you are fighting at longer range you eat a lot of penalties, to the point where, at lower levels, you might actually have a negative attack modifier. Considering how attacks are limited between different weapons, I don't really think the -2 on attack is all that necessary. Maybe a -1.
Why not make it: As a standard action you may make a single attack with each weapon, but for every weapon you have more than one all attacks gain a cumulative -2 to their attack roll and a further -1 to their damage roll as you are forced to split your concentration between them. That would mechanically limit the usefulness of many weapons.
Lesser:
Now it becomes better, but considering that you still eat the penalties on the iteratives, it won't do much.
With my example above of cumulative penalties with greater weapon numbers it might be feasible to allow full attacks for all weapons here (or limit it to one iterative if you fear multiclassing)
The con-score limitation will most likely only apply rarely as a conscore of 14+ is nothing hard to aquire at this point and combat rarely lasts that long.
Improved:
The increase in attacks as it is now feels completely out of place as I don't think most Telekineticists would go into the feat intensive two weapon fighting tree.
Larger weapons are always fun and I expect people to start running around with colossal greatsword (or maybe riding on them as mental strenght only says you can't use it on yourself but nothing about using it on something that supports you).
In the vein of my alterante idea, i guess this would be a good point to reduce the muliweapon penalty to attack to a -1 i guess. (Mostly because by now range is so large that even with only a -1/10' you are already eating a lot of penalty at moderate range).
Greater:
I'd keep it as it is only I'd allow one attack per weapon without penalty.
Overall:
I know that my ideas make this ability a lot stronger than the total of some pure fighting classes, but its mostly due to the fact that as it stands now, its inferior to force blast in most ways.

Telekinetic Reach:
Absolutely necessary to make the Least fighting more useful.

Far trick:
I assume all of those go normally but without negative aspects:
Example: Grapple still needs touch attack, can't be tripped back on failure etc.
I am kinda sad that grappling comes so late but all of them are great.
A way to apply more hands (maybe a cumulative bonus of +2/hand or +chamod/2 per hand to checks [not attack rolls needed])
Otherwise this is one of the reasons why I found this class so interesting.

Mind's eye:
This (like the later telefighting abilities) creates another question within the BIG QUESTION. If I don't do anything else, could I use anything that requires a fullround action or less?
Example: I don't move (aside from 5ft step) and now i can get blindsight and force blast in the same round (since the latter only takes a standard). I move and I can still blast and mental strenght something but blindsight is closed to me.
On the actual ability itself. Blindsight is always awesome, especially at the extreme range this grants (especially pure telekineticists). What would stop this as its not hearing or telepathy based? The only thing I can come up with is antimagic, catapsi or similar.

Martial Skill:
Don't know how useful this would be, but its a minor bump, so its nice.

Telekinetic Flight:
Flight is always useful and the necessities for keeping it up are nicely paced.
One question though: If you keep up flying with hands, then land and 'retract' the hands, would you still be fatigued?

Focused Shield:
A pure Telekineticist can make himself immune to projectiles by level 12 (20'x20' area with walls and ceiling), earlier if the DM allows shields that go through the middle of a square (then its level 5).
Overall this is great, especially in dungeons if lost of enemies are coming towards you as you can just make staggered shields down a corridor to act like as a sluice like the big orange energy fields in the final battle of the phantom menace.
Especially useful against flying enemies with limited (average or lower) maneuverability as they might get rebuffed, now can't fly onwards and start falling.
The extra damage option is nice, but I don't think its going to be used often, except maybe in the dungeon example.

Critical Thinking:
See me throw colossal falchions. But more seriously, this is good, but in most cases the weapon option is dwarved damage wise by the 'Throw trees, boulders or cows' option.

Ghostly Hands:
What are coterminous planes? The only thing I can guess is that while on the material plane you can affect both ethereal and shadow, when on ethereal you can affect material and the same for being on shadow.
Otherwise, good increase in versatility, though I guess the force version of force blast would have affected ethereal beings before as well as its a force effect.

Disrupting Throw:
Useful, but since spellcasters at this point can cast defensively in their sleep it probably won't work more than once against them, still nice for other stuff though as its a nice instant battlefield control ability.

Master of the Far Hand:
Great Capstone.
You now laugh at attempts to restrict your actions.
Disrupting throw now means you better have combat reflexes and an okay dexterity. If so, enemies will absolutely hate you.
You're fast, and can reliably make enemies stumble so often each round its not even funny.
The last bit seems a bit out of place as its pretty much unimportant at this point.

--------------------------------------------
ACFs

Pure Telekineticist:
A bit worse early on as he doesn't get as many hands in the first few levels but great later on. Losing telekinetic fighting is sad, but as its written now, its not that great a loss honestly.

Unarmed Telekineticist:
Very Interesting, though the damage formula is weird. I guess you meant:
0.5*chamod*(hands+1). This would lead to chamod damage for one hand and each subsequent hand increasing that by half chamod.
This is probably the better heavy hitter. He doesn't need to carry around swords, is never truly disarmed and can split his attention at any point. (and there is no movement limit for the weapons as he can just dismiss them as a free action and rebuild them at the new point). And you get cumulative bonuses to attack with more hands.
Honestly, the loss of medium armor proficiency is a small price to pay for this upgrade.

-------------------------------------------

Miniature Boulder:
Interesting, but potentially gamebreaking. Everyone using these will take quickdraw if they can. Then in the first round of combat you suddenly have half a dozen or more heavy projectiles around you and wreak havoc.
If these were to be implemented they'd have to be pretty expensive to balance the ease with which they alleviate the ammo problem of the telekineticist.


Whew, thats it so far. I hope I didn't miss things. Well Wild talent maybe, buts thats just for psionic focus, which is generally unnecessary anyway as nothing you have expends it as far as I can see.

DerTollUdo
2012-03-03, 01:43 PM
Thank you for posting your questions, I will get to them later when I get time lol.

Quick note, you cannot do multiple abilities if you don't have the actions. that is game breaking. All the abilities should state that they have an action requirement. If you have the action available you can use it, otherwise no.

Re'ozul
2012-03-03, 03:42 PM
Ah yes, but thats not what I meant.

Force Blast for example says that you can do as many blasts as you have hands.
Further, lets say you have 7 hands (all of which are currently unoccupied) and there are only 8 enemies.
You throw one force based blast at three of them (you are just trying to nauseate the most imposing ones).
Now you have 4 hands idling.

The ability you just used (force blast) has an action cost of a standard action.
Could you now occupy the idling 4 hands with other abilities that also cost a standard action or less?
Theoretically that shouldn't be that big a problem since its only a difference between blasting something or doing something else, you are still using the same hands.
So with the idling 4 hands you could try to initiate a mental strenght movement. That also costs a standard action to initiat iirc.

Veklim
2012-03-03, 06:17 PM
Firstly, NOOO!!!! You can't activate 2 different standard action abilities with the same standard action, that's called a baaaaad idea! You can split up your hands to different targets or focus multiple hands on one target with equal ease, but only with a single ability at once.

TK fighting excels with battlefield control within a group, force blast is for selfish combat more than group play. Depends on your immediate preference and the situation. Idea is, these guys can adapt their tactics to encompass group dynamics AND awkward encounters.

The multiple attacks at a single target should be clarified. When I originally editted the class, I made a few assumptions, most of which seemed right but a couple of things got lost in translation. The idea is this:
You can make multiple attacks with force blast, for each additional target you take a -2 penalty. If you attack a single target with 3 hands, and another target with 2, then you take a -2 penalty to the single attack roll, and apply that to both targets. The reason it's only 1 attack roll is because the idea is an all or nothing approach. The more you split up the attacks, the more likely you are to miss everything, this is absolutely fine considering you could potentially strike every enemy in a combat with a single standard action. This class isn't a melee build, it's not a blaster build, it's oddly somewhere between the two, and I believe the balance works OK. Clarification is needed though, certainly.

I've considered making feats which would allow a small amount of merging abilities (2 standard action abilities may be used as a full round action, two move actions become a standard, blah, blah, blah!). Not sure about balance, would have to look carefully at the numbers.

With regards to the (Su) thing, it's bang in line with soulknife, which is as close as WotC got to this type of 'specialist psion' class. It's not really imitating any one power, so psi-like isn't really appropriate. If you want some psi-like stuff, then gimme a few days, I'll be creating a series of ACF options for 'psionic discipline domains', the first of which is already done here:
The Mentalist:
Not only do you have the ability to warp the physical world with your mind, but you can warp the mental state of others too.

Change the Telekineticist's BAB to average progression (like a cleric). You are not as martially minded as other Telekineticists, but your understanding of your powers stretch to the abstract far more than others.

Warp Mindstate.
Replaces: Telekinetic Reach, Martial Skill, Critical Thinking.
At 1st level you start to gain a number of Psi-Like abilities as you progress, as listed below. Each ability requires a number of hands to be used, equal to the level of the power simulated. Hands used this way are considered used until the beginning of your next turn.
1st level. Psionic Charm. Usable 3+ con modifier times per day.
3rd level. Psionic Suggestion. Usable 2+ con modifier times per day.
5th level. Hostile Empathic Transfer. Usable 1+ con modifier times per day.
7th level. Psionic Dominate. Usable con modifier times per day.
9th level. Mind Probe. Usable con modifier -1 times per day.

Power Overwhelming
Replaces: Far Trick
At 4th level you gain the ability to augment your Warp Mindstate with additional hands. Each additional hand counts as 2 power points for this purpose. You begin being able to use only 1 additional hand in this way. You may use another additional hand for every 4 levels thereafter (2 extra at 8th, 3 at 12th, etc, to a maximum of 5 additional hands at 20th.)

Mind's Eye
Your Mind's eye ability gains the following enhancement:
You may improve your Mind's Eye ability with the use of an additional hand. You gain the effects of the Read Thoughts power with 2 differences:
The area becomes that of your Mind's Eye ability.
Creatures with an intelligence of 26 or higher (and at least 10 points higher than your own intelligence score) no longer stun you if they are read. Instead, you simply cannot comprehend the thoughts you read and therefore gain no effect for the purposes of these creatures.

Master of the Unseen/Far Hand (whichever one bobthe6th chooses!)
Remove this line from the ability:
"You no longer take range penalties to your far tricks."
Add this line to the ability:
You count as using two more hands when augmenting your Warp Mindstate abilities (so if you were to augment with 2 extra hands, you would count as having used 4 extra hands instead).

Use rope is a silly omission, and perhaps hide, spot and open lock would be amusing, but I dunno....leave that to bobthe6th to decide methinks!

The idea of a +2/additional hand had crossed my mind already, but I'm afraid it may become FAR too much at later levels, for instance a PureTK deciding at level 12 that he'd like to grapple that dragon over there, and pinning it without breaking a sweat....

Thankyou for the PEACH though dude, stick around a while and we'll try and iron out the creases for you! :smallbiggrin:

Re'ozul
2012-03-04, 02:47 AM
Well, the big reason I asked about multiple abilities per action was that the Telekineticist is otherwise somewhat sad when confronted with few enemies.

Once you have more hands than enemies it becomes just a bit boring in my mind.
Lets say you have 5 hands and 5 enemies and you decide to use Far Trick. Assuming you don't have any hands currently occupied, you need to attack all of them with far trick or you waste ressources. Especially the pure Telekineticist could get that problem later on as usually theres only so many shields that are useful and you have a ton of hands, certainly more than there are usually enemies.
It also hinders Telekinetic Fighting. If you do anything else, the best you now can do with your weapons is move them into new flanking positions and if you fight with them, any idle hands you have in reserve for blasting are useless this round.

I guess the fact that the shields are a move action to create alleviates some of that problem but it still feels weirdly restrictive.

Of course, in the vein of the other abilities, you could impose yet another penalty if you use multiple abilities at once (the customary -2 on all rolls of all abilities for any ability more than one that you use with the same action).

Veklim
2012-03-04, 09:40 AM
Well, the big reason I asked about multiple abilities per action was that the Telekineticist is otherwise somewhat sad when confronted with few enemies.

You actually make a reasonable point with this, I'm so very wary of allowing multiple ability actions, but then again there's the duskblade...we're never gonna be that bad so maybe a change could happen...


Of course, in the vein of the other abilities, you could impose yet another penalty if you use multiple abilities at once (the customary -2 on all rolls of all abilities for any ability more than one that you use with the same action).

Hrmmm...so Hands needs an adendum:
Whenever you take an action with your hands, as a full round action you may elect to use any other hand ability with an equal or shorter action time at a cumulative -2 penalty per extra action. For instance, Jimmy is a 12th level Telekineticist with 7 Hands, he chooses to use 3 of those hands to pick up weapons to aid in flanking with his friends (a standard action) and uses another 3 Hands to bullrush a closing pack of enemies (another standard action). He would have to make all attack and opposed rolls for each of these actions at an additional -2, because his attention is split between 2 different abilities. If he also wished to use his last hand to make a focused shield in this time, the penalties for multiple actions would increase to -4 to all rolls.

Something like that yeah? Made it a full round action because otherwise you'll have people using TK fighting, force blast and far trick in one standard action, then putting up focused shields and shifting weapon positions as a move action. That just seems like too much. Thinking about introducing a feat to drop far trick to a move action and focused shield to a swift action maybe con mod/day uses? We need a few feats to give a TK some options, otherwise they have only fighting style feats to chose from if they want any obvious effect on the class.

Re'ozul
2012-03-04, 09:58 AM
Sure, thats okay.

Especially considering that once you have it, theshields are something extra anyway. If you are focusing on one thing with most hands, you still have the shield option in reserve if it doesn't work as long as you left some hands idling.

And considering that the telekinetic once he has shields won't move that much anyway, the fullround action is a good limitation and means a more tactical orientation.
If you want to do lots of different things, you best be somewhere where they can't backfire on you if they fail.

I like it.

While the idea of using feats to allow lesser action access to some abilities for a limited number of times is certainly good and could be a good feats investment, it would most likely be like the metamagic SLA feats a warlock can take. Situational useful, and nice to have on paper, but most often you probably won't need them.
By all means, write them up, especially anything needing a swift action. Or maybe you could make it a feat tree for action reduction. That could actually work even better and make it more interesting for players.

Veklim
2012-03-04, 10:32 AM
By all means, write them up, especially anything needing a swift action. Or maybe you could make it a feat tree for action reduction. That could actually work even better and make it more interesting for players.

That right there is a sweet and simple option, nice idea.

Telekinetic Focus
Requirements: Telekinetic Hands class feature, must chose one of the following abilities; Mental Strength, Force Blast, Far Trick
Benefit: You may use the chosen ability as a move action a number of times per day equal to your constitution modier. You may not do so more than once per round.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times, each time it applies to a new ability.

I will have more later!

You need to keep prodding things at me, my half-brain is working now!

Re'ozul
2012-03-04, 12:36 PM
One thing I didn't put in my main post was something about mental strenght.

It seems to be sustainable. That means enemy creatures should probably get a will save each turn to resist the movement, especially considerung that "up" apparently is a viable direction to move them in.

Though I have to admit, most abilities make me think way too much of Elfen Lied. Then again, most here are not as brutal as the vectors in that show.

Veklim
2012-03-04, 02:29 PM
It should read gets a save each turn, that's an accidental oversight on my behalf.

It really is VERY Elfen Lied isn't it? Took me a while to put my finger on what it reminded me of though! I toyed with suggesting the force blast be replaced for the unarmed TK ACF with a slashing damage for hands, but decided against it in the end because it would either be horrifically OP or just not good enough to be faking Elfen Lied, alas!

OK, here are the 3 feats then, nice little tree which can work equally well for Mental Strength, Force Blast or Far Trick, adding to your action economy and improving their use ever so slightly.

TK Focus
Requirements: Telekinetic Hands class feature, must chose one of the following abilities; Mental Strength, Force Blast, Far Trick
Benefit: You may use the chosen ability as a move action a number of times per day equal to your constitution modier. You may not do so more than once per round.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times, each time it applies to a new ability.

TK Specialisation
Requirements: TK Focus, Telekineticist level 4+
Benefits: The penalty taken when combining your TK Focus ability with another action as part of a full round action is reduced to -1, but only for the chosen ability. You may use extra hands with your TK Focus ability to gain a bonus to any damage and opposed rolls at a rate of +2/additional hand, these extra hands are considered used until the end of the action.
Special: This feat may be taken multiple times, each time it applies to a new ability for which you have TK Focus

TK Supremacy
Requirements: TK Focus, TK Specialisation, Telekineticist level 12+
Benefits: The ability for which you have TK Specialisation and Focus is now considered a move action to use. You may use it as a swift action a number of times per day equal to your constitution modifier. You may not do so more than once per round.
Special: This feat may be taken multiple times, each time it applies to a new ability for which you have TK Specialisation.

See any particular troubles with that lot?

DerTollUdo
2012-03-04, 05:46 PM
New ability suggestion:

Singularity(SU): As a standard action, you may draw enemies to a designated point. This point may effect any or all creatures (not objects, although undead are susceptible) within 30' of the center point.
To do so, you must use one Hand (the singularity) + one Hand per target (the gravity) and each target may not be more than 50lbs/level. Upon using this ability, you must make a ranged touch attack against the target to 'grab' them with a hand, then the target must succeed on a Fort save or be drawn to to point. You may use more Hands per target to increase the saves and weight limit for this ability at an additional +5 Fort DC per Hand used for the target and +50lbs per Hand used for the target.

If they get drawn to the point, they are held there until they can pass a Fort save with an added difficulty of +2 per additional target caught in the singularity.

Upon collision with another target at the center point, each target takes bludgeoning damage equal to 2d6/10' each target traveled. For example, there are 3 targets. 1 travels 20' 2 travels 10' and 3 travels 30'. Upon collision at the center they each take 6d6 bludgeoning damage.

For each round, on the start of their turn that they begin in the singularity, each target will take 5d6 crushing damage as the force holding them applies pressure. You may invest more hands in the singularity, to increase the damage they take by an addition 5d6/Hand.

Thoughts?

Also, class retype with Hands addition for multiple actions, as that increases versatility, also I am just going to include the capstone modification that doubles the hands you gain from the class and feats as it really makes the capstone just shine :)

This is in need of PEACH. Just skip past the old comments.


Special thanks to VEKLIM and DerTollUdo for editing. It was a lot messier before.
Really, first time I got an editor, and the class is better for it...

So, I have tried to make blasters. They have all been kinda busy, and introduce too many new concepts. So going to try a different tact, something in line with an invoker.

The Telekineticist. A rather long name but oh well.

When the psionic talent begins to surface, they show odd signs. Some of these show it through the sudden movement of objects. Flying plates and tables mark a developing psion, yet some never grow out of it. These psions grow in power, standing up to psions in their own right as masters of psionic power.




Characteristics: The Telekineticist relies on its mind to create force affects. This can range from throwing a mass at a foe, throwing a foe, fighting with a weapon held with his mind, even to full power flight!

Alignment: The Telekineticist can be of any alignment. The power of the mind bares no alignment above others.

Religion: The Telekineticist favors gods of battle and psionics.

Races: Humans are drawn to this class like any other. Small races also enjoy this class, as it lets them use brains in place of brawn. Any mining race tends to have many Telekineticists since they aid in the mining process. All psionic races tend to favor this class like any other psionic class.

Other Classes: Martial classes tend to dislike The Telekineticist, as they seem too magical to be true martial. Magical classes enjoy The Telekineticist, as they seem to merely be imitating their own power.

Role: Can take on the role of a secondary tank, or perhaps stealth. But this class shines at battle field control. With numerous abilities for punishing foes unwilling to move as he wishes, and the ability to physically move foes into a formation of his choice, he can add some useful utility outside of combat while performing numerous tricks at a distance.

Game Rule Information:
Abilities:Charisma is very important, as it is the strength of The Telekineticist. Wisdom allows The Telekineticist to maintain effects longer, and constitution helps The Telekineticist stay alive while increasing maximum Hands.

Alignment: Any

Hit Die: d8

The Telekineticist
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

1st|+1|+0|+0|+2| Telekinetic Hands, Mental Strength, Force Blast, Wild Talent

2nd|+2|+0|+0|+3| Telekinetic Fighting: Least

3rd|+3|+1|+1|+3|Telekinetic Reach

4th|+4|+1|+1|+4| Far Trick

5th|+5|+1|+1|+4| Martial Skill, Mind's Eye

6th|+6/+1|+2|+2|+5| Telekinetic Fighting: Lesser, Far Trick

7th|+7/+2|+2|+2|+5| Telekinetic Flight

8th|+8/+3|+2|+2|+6| Far Trick

9th|+9/+4|+3|+3|+6| Martial Skill, Focused Shield

10th|+10/+5|+3|+3|+7| Telekinetic Flight: Improved, Mind's Eye, Far Trick

11th|+11/+6/+1|+3|+3|+7| Telekinetic Fighting: Improved, Critical Thinking

12th|+12/+7/+2|+4|+4|+8| Ghostly Hand

13th|+13/+8/+3|+4|+4|+8| Telekinetic Flight: Greater

14th|+14/+9/+4|+4|+4|+9| Martial Skill

15th|+15/+10/+5|+5|+5|+9| Disrupting Throw, Mind's Eye

16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+5|+5|+10| Telekinetic Fighting: Greater

17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+5|+5|+10| Ghostly Hand

18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+6|+6|+11| Critical Thinking

19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+6|+6|+11| Martial Skill, Singularity

20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+6|+6|+12| Master Of The Far Hand, Mind's Eye
[/table]

Class Skills

The Telekineticist's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are; Auto Hypnosis(Con), Balance(Dex), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Escape artist(Dex), Hide(Dex), Knowledge (Psionics)(Int), Open Lock(Dex), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Slight of hand(Dex), Spot(Wis), Tumble(Dex), Use Psionic Device(Cha), Use Rope(Dex), and Psicraft (Int).

Skill Points at First Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

Proficiencies: A Telekineticist is proficient with all Simple weapons and one martial melee weapon of their choice. They are also proficient with light and medium armor, and all shields.

Telekinetic Hands(SU): The Telekineticist has limited capability with his power. This capability is known as Telekinetic Hands, or just Hands. The Telekineticist has a number of Hands equal to 1 + 1/3 class levels + your Constitution modifier. These Hands have a range equal to 10ft/ class level.

If an ability that uses Hands requires a save, it has a DC of 10 + 1/2 class levels + charisma modifier. If they require a physical ability score (such as an opposed strength checks for a trip attempt), use the Charisma modifier instead. To use his Hands he must be psionically focused, although he does not expend his focus by doing so.

Any hand which is used for a non-sustained ability is considered used until the start of your next turn, and any hand used for a sustained ability is considered used until the ability is released.

Whenever you take an action with your hands, you may opt to instead make it a full round action. If you do so, you may use any other hand ability at the same time that has an equal or shorter action time at a cumulative -2 penalty for all rolls or saving throws involved in the actions per extra action taken.

For instance, Jimmy is a 12th level Telekineticist with 7 Hands, he chooses to use 3 of those hands to pick up weapons to aid in flanking with his friends (a standard action) and uses another 3 Hands to bullrush a closing pack of enemies (another standard action). He would have to make all attack and opposed rolls for each of these actions at an additional -2, because his attention is split between 2 different abilities. If he also wished to use his last hand to make a focused shield in this time, the penalties for multiple actions would increase to -4 to all rolls.

Mental Strength(SU): The Telekineticist can move an object with his mind, or perform some act of manual dexterity at any distance within the range of his Hands as a standard action.

He may move up to 50lb/level at a rate of 30' per action, objects up to 100lb/level at a rate of 20' per action, and objects up to 150lb/level at a rate of 10' per action. You may add additional Hands to increase the speed by 10' per Hand.

These movements are not limited in direction, but do have a limited duration. The Telekineticist can maintain pressure for up to wisdom modifier rounds, after that the object drops to the ground and the Telekineticist is fatigued for 1d4 rounds. You may not initiate this ability if you are fatigued. If you cease pressure, and do not use any ability requiring Telekinetic Hands for a full round, the duration you may keep this up is reset.

Creatures may be moved in this way, but they get a will save to negate the effects each round. Any movement from this ability provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. The Telekineticist may not use this ability on himself.

Objects weighing 25lb + 25lb/3 levels may be maintained without limit with one Hand. You may invest more Hands to sustain 25lbs/level per invested Hand without limit.

The Telekineticist can also perform a feat of manual dexterity anywhere within the maximum range of his powers. This manipulation is limited by the number of hands used. If you wish to do something which would require two physical hands to achieve (like tie a knot in some rope), then you must use at least 2 hands. No additional effect is had by using more Hands than necessary for any given action.

Force Blast(SU):As a standard action, the Telekineticist can launch a number of objects within the range of his Hands. Each object may weigh no more than 25lb/level, and requires the use of a single Hand/object. The object(s) travel up to 10ft/level and this movement may take it outside of the Hands range.

The Telekineticist makes a single standard ranged attack (in the case of multiple targets, this result is applied to each target separately), with a -2 penalty for each object thrown beyond the first. Each object deals bludgeoning or piercing damage (DM's choice) depending on it's weight up to 1d6/25lb. Regardless of the item launched, you do not take a non-proficiency penalty for this attack. Weapons launched with this power deal bludgeoning damage according to their weight unless you are proficient with them, at which point you may deal normal weapon damage (and damage type) instead. The object or weapon deals an additional +1d6 damage for each full 10ft of movement it had remaining when it hits. The critical threat of weapons used this way is 20/x2, only one roll need be made to confirm all attacks and criticals made with a single use of Force Blast. Any enchantments or abilities the weapon/s may have are applied individually. The keen enchantment, or any similar ability involving critical threat ranges does not apply. A flaming burst weapon would always consider it's threat range as 20/x2.

You may also focus this ability in an attempt to rip the target apart from the inside. As a standard action, you may attack one target with 1 blast per Hand you wish to use, or you may split up the targets per Hand you use.

The Telekineticist makes a single standard ranged touch attack (in the case of multiple targets, this result is applied to each target separately, with a -2 penalty for each target after the first). This attack deals 1D4/class level force damage and the target must succeed on a fortitude save or be nauseated for 1D4 rounds. This ability only functions within the range of your Hands. This ability effects objects.

You may not launch creatures with this ability.

Wild Talent: You gain the feat Wild Talent as a bonus feat.

Telekinetic Fighting(SU):

Least:
At 2nd level The Telekineticist may use Hands to wield weapons he is proficient with and fight within the range of his Hands. Any weapon wielded in this fashion may be moved up to 30ft in a round as a free action.

As a standard action, you may make a single melee attack with one such weapon, using Charisma instead of Strength for the to hit and damage rolls. You only threaten squares within your physical reach, if the weapon is beyond this range it does not threaten on it's own. A one-handed or smaller weapon requires one Hand and a two-handed weapon requires two Hands to use. Any weapon(s) held by your Hands may have additional Hands added to it, each increasing the damage by 1/2 charisma modifier.

The Telekineticist suffers -1 to hit for every 10ft increment between the weapon and The Telekineticist, and a -1 to damage for every 20ft increment between the weapon and The Telekineticist, to a maximum of the range of his Hands. He may maintain this effect for a number of rounds equal to his constitution score per encounter.

Lesser:
At 6th level you may make a full attack with the weapon(s) you are wielding with Telekinetic Fighting. You may not make more attacks than you could without your Telekinetic Hands, but you may spread your iterative attacks between weapons at no penalty, although the range penalty still applies. You may now hold a light or heavy shield with one Hand or a tower shield in two Hands. Such a shield may occupy any square including your own or those of your allies (but not an enemy's) and confers on anyone in that square the shield's AC bonus as a shield bonus to their own AC.

Improved:
As a standard action you may attack once with each weapon wielded by your Telekinetic Fighting. This is done with a single attack roll at your highest attack bonus, but takes a penalty to hit equal to the number of weapons being wielded -1.
You may wield a weapon of a larger size category than you normally could for your size. For every size category larger than normal, the weapon requires an additional Hand to wield, these Hands do not add extra damage, but you may add further Hands to do so.

The duration you may maintain this effect is removed.

Greater:
At 16th level you no longer take the distance penalties for the distance between you and your weapon, but you are still limited to the range of your Hands. Also, as a fullround action, you may attack with each weapon you hold with Hands up to the number of attacks granted from you BAB for each weapon plus any extra attacks granted from feats or weapon enchantments.

Telekinetic Reach(SU): At third level, any weapon you are wielding with your Telekinetic Fighting threatens adjacent squares as normal for a weapon of it's type. If the weapon has the reach quality then calculate accordingly.

Far Trick(SU):Starting at 4th lvl when your powers start to mature, you gain the ability to make specific types of attacks within the range of your Hands. These work as normal except Charisma is used instead of any physical score, and your size bonus (or penalty) does not apply to these checks.

Each ability initially receives a penalty of -1/10ft away from the target you are. Each ability requires one hand to activate.

At 4th level you may attempt to break down a door or bullrush an opponent.

At 6th level you may attempt disarm attempts against foes. The penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/20ft.

At 8th level you may attempt trip attempts against foes. The penalty for disarming is reduced to -1/20ft, and the penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/40ft.

At 10th level you may attempt to grapple foes. The penalty for tripping is reduced to -1/20ft, the penalty for disarming is reduced to -1/40ft, and the penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/80ft.

Minds eye(SU): At 5th level, as a full round action you may gain blindsight out to half the range of your Hands until the end of your next turn. You must be psionically focused to do this.

At 10th level this increases to the full range of your Hands.

At 15th level you may maintain this ability indefinitely with one hand.

At 20th level this ability no longer requires a Hand to maintain and is always active (even when you are not psionically focused).

Martial Skill (EX): You may not be a fighter, but you understand weapons of war.

At 5th level you gain two additional martial weapon proficiencies of your choice.

At 9th level you gain two more additional martial weapon proficiencies of your choice.

At 14th level you gain one additional martial weapon proficiency and one additional exotic weapon proficiency of your choice.

At 19th level you gain two additional exotic weapon proficiencies of your choice.

Telekinetic Flight(SU): You have finally mastered moving yourself using your Hands. One Hand is required to initiate and sustain flight. If you reach the duration of the ability, you immediately descend directly downwards at a rate equal to the fly speed (taking falling damage if you fail to reach solid ground in this distance) and become fatigued for 1d4 rounds. You may not initiate this ability if you are fatigued If you cease flying, and do not use any ability requiring Telekinetic Hands for a full round, the duration you may keep this up is reset.

At 7th level, you may fly at a speed of 30ft with perfect maneuverability for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom modifier. You may keep this flight up indefinitely by using three hands.

At 11th level, your fly speed increases to 40ft and you may stay aloft for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom score. You only need two to keep this up indefinitely.

At 13th level, your fly speed increases to 60ft and may be sustained indefinitely with only one Hand.

Focused Shield(SU):At 9th level you may create a barrier with your Hands as a move action. Any unattended objects or projectiles (including spells which require an attack roll) are instantly stopped and cannot pass through. If a creature attempts to pass through, it suffers an immediate bullrush attack upon contact with the barrier, as if the barrier were a gargantuan creature with a Strength score equal to your Charisma score. If the barrier wins the opposed check, the creature is pushed back 5ft (but no more, since the barrier cannot move from the squares it has been placed in). If the creature wins, it forces it's way through the barrier, causing it to disperse.

In either case the creature takes force damage equal to 1D6 +1/ class level. The barrier is a 10ft pane, positioned as you please within Telekinesis range and requires 1 Hand to maintain. You may create and maintain multiple barriers at once, any number of barriers may be set as part of the same move action so long as you have enough hands free to create them.

You may invest 1 more Hand to increase the damage dealt to 1D6/class level. For each additional Hand invested in this fashion you may add 1D6/class level.

You may invest 1 additional Hand to shape the Shield. All parts must be touching.

You may invest additional Hands to increase the size of the shield at a rate of 5'x5' per Hand. Thus with 1 extra Hand it is a 15' pane, 2 becomes 20' and so on.

Critical Thinking(EX): Starting at 11th level, you have learned how to wield a weapon in the most dangerous fashion.

At level 11 weapons with which you are proficient used in Force Blast get their normal critical threat range.

At level 18 all objects wielded with Telekinetic Hands get their normal threat range and are treated as though you had Improved Critical. You do not actually gain the feat, and it does not count for prerequisites. This ability stacks in the same way as the feat.

Ghostly Hand(SU): At 12th level, your abilities become capable of affecting ethereal objects and enemies. Objects thrown using Force Blast must be ethereal to do so, but weapons wielded using Telekinetic Fighting are treated as being both corporeal and ethereal from now on.

At 17th level all your abilities can effect creatures and objects from any coterminous planes.

Disrupting Throw(SU): At 15th level, as an immediate action, you may attempt an attack of opportunity against any opponent up to 5ft/class level away. They must have just taken an action which would provoke an attack of opportunity were you adjacent to them, but you need not be threatening the opponent. You may use your Force Blast ability, or any of the abilities you know through Far Trick. This counts towards your attacks of opportunity for the round.

Singularity(SU):As a standard action, you may draw enemies to a designated point. This point may effect any or all creatures (not objects, although undead are susceptible) within 30' of the center point.
To do so, you must use one Hand (the singularity) + one Hand per target (the gravity) and each target may not be more than 50lbs/level. Upon using this ability, you must make a ranged touch attack against the target to 'grab' them with a hand, then the target must succeed on a Fort save or be drawn to to point. You may use more Hands per target to increase the saves and weight limit for this ability at an additional +5 Fort DC per Hand used for the target and +50lbs per Hand used for the target.

If they get drawn to the point, they are held there until they can pass a Fort save with an added difficulty of +2 per additional target caught in the singularity.

Upon collision with another target at the center point, each target takes bludgeoning damage equal to 2d6/10' each target traveled. For example, there are 3 targets. 1 travels 20' 2 travels 10' and 3 travels 30'. Upon collision at the center they each take 6d6 bludgeoning damage.

For each round, on the start of their turn that they begin in the singularity, each target will take 5d6 crushing damage as the force holding them applies pressure. You may invest more hands in the singularity, to increase the damage they take by an addition 5d6/Hand.

Master Of The Far Hand(EX): At 20th level, you have reached the pinnacle of your mental power. Reality becomes an illusion which you can bend like putty, and many of your abilities are enhanced as follows:

All your class abilities are now considered Extraordinary.

Your Disrupting Throw becomes a free action, still taking up an attack of opportunity per use. It may also be used anywhere within your Telekinesis range.

Your flight speed increases to 120ft.

You no longer take range penalties to your far tricks.

You no longer take range penalties to your Telekinetic Fighting.

The Telekinetic Hands gained through class levels and feats is doubled from this point on.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

ACFs

Pure Telekineticist.

Replaces: Martial Skill, Telekinetic Fighting, Martial Weapon Proficiency, and Telekinetic Reach.

Benefit:The number of Hands you have is increased to 1 Hand/Class Level. The range of your telekinesis increases to 20ft/level.


Unarmed Telekineticist

Replaces: Martial Skill, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Medium Armor Proficiency.

Benefit: You may generate weapons of pure force. These deal damage equal to 1d6/Hand force damage. They gain a bonus to hit and to damage equal to 1/2*Charisma Modifier*(Invested Hands + 1). These are treated as weapons the Telekineticist is proficient with for all purposes. Their critical range is 20/x2.

Special: Can be applied with the Pure Telekineticist ACF



Magic Items
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Miniature Boulder:
This item is very useful to a Telekineticist. It has the dimensions of a marble, and weighs much the same.
As a move action (or free action with the quick draw feat) the marble can be activated. After its activation, the marble can be made to weigh up to 500lb, always growing to a foot diameter sphere. Another move action is required to reduce it back down to marble size.

Also, subtle changes to Unarmed, more added to cap, Critical thinking tweaked, expanded on the Focused Shield, Modified TK Fighting to make it better as it was weak, added a line to strength and flight about resetting duration, changed the levels that you get the Far Tricks since some arrived really late..., amped force blast, put myself in the edit credits, added singularity to level 19 (thoughts on that?).

Also, will begin playtesting this class today. I will start at level 13 though, so I won't be able to speak on early game balance...

bobthe6th
2012-03-04, 09:26 PM
revamp added to the OP

DerTollUdo
2012-03-04, 09:40 PM
Sweet! Keep in mind, the one you put up has changes that I made without really asking the others, for example reword abilities and even added one and changed the capstone. I am clearly in favor of these, but do keep it in mind.

DerTollUdo
2012-03-05, 01:27 AM
Ok, so while working on my char I found that unarmed needs to be hit woth the nerf bat...hard.
My char is an unseelie petal fey with a couple other templates that add up to +6 cha and plus 2 con. I have 18 Hands and a sizeable amount of money, although I will give examples with and without that factoted in. Scores that matter are cha of +18 and con of +11. For a similar char without my funds and templates a cha +9 and con +5 is by no means hard to get.

This ability is gotten at level 1. I can whip out a lightsaber that deals stupid damage and stupid to hit especially if I put all available hands into the saber.
Examples: funded= .5*18*19=9*19=171 to hit and damage at level 13.
At level 1=.5*18*14=9*14=126
Unfunded: level 13=.5*9*12=9*6=54
level 1=.5*9*7=31.5

The problem is not the damage as I feel that is roughly what melee should be able to do. The bonus to hit is what I feel should be lowered. Suggestions are to separate its formula from the damage one and make it .5*cha mod+ (hands +1). This would yield results of lvl13=28 to hit or 16 to hit. Level 1= 23 or 11.

While that method would curb its power it eould also make it so you cant hit the people that focused on ac later. Another suggestion would be to put a cap on how many hands can be put into it of 1 per level.
this becomes 13=126 or 54. 1=18 or 9. This could also work if you feel the damage is too high. Adds a nice scaling factor to it.

Of the two options I like the last one the best, with the two formulas still being linked.

Thoughts?

Re'ozul
2012-03-05, 04:39 AM
@ Veklim

That feat tree is awesome. It gives just enough incentive for people to really consider taking the individual feats throughout the entire tree. The bonuses the feats give are really well thought out when compared to the feat tax to get to them.
However, they might need some exception rules for telekinetic Fighting as otherwise it can be read as allowing full attacking with only a move action which, especially with unarmed telekineticist, is way too good.

@ DerTollUdo

The ability is interesting, but +5 to DC per hand is too much (maybe +2). Also, it would probably be better to allow +50lb/lvl for each extra hand as otherwise even large enemies might never be affectable.
I'd actually make it easier for them to escape if more enemies are inside.
Considering what you have here is an area immobilization attack, it should be easier to hold one person rather than many.
The damage is okay and the crushing is interesting.
This is definitely something for later in the class, maybe somewhere level 10+.

On the retype:

I still don't really like mental strenght due to it not being linear. The 'more hands=more speed' is nice but the current system weight restriction means that huge enemies (even if you forgoe the borked core weights given in the MM and such) are outside of what you can ever do. A large creature weighs 8 times as much as a medium, so thats easily 1,600lb and even if you go huge being 27 times, thats already 5400lb and as such way above what you can do.

Telekinetic Fighting looks pretty good now, though I am unsure wether the greater version isn't too strong since you reduced both forms of penalties to only a -1 (per 10' distance/per extra weapon). Then again, most of the time you do best damage with only one weapon anyway and most others will be providing flanking and such.
Though this brings up a question, can an enemy move through squares occupied by weapons, or could you box them in?

Far trick is more reasonably paced, though it really wasn't bad before.

Focused Shield is more like a psionic power now as you can decide what bonuses you want for extra invested hands. I guess the extra size option means that: 1hand=10'x10'; 2hands=15'x15', 3hands=20'x20'
Together with the option to shape it, could I do the following?
I invest 4 hands into size, making it a 25'x25', which means 25 individual 5'x5' wall segments. I now invest an extra hand to make it shapeable and use it to make a 10' high wall encasing a 15'x15' area to box in a medium enemy.

New capstone:
Say hello to the pure telekineticist who now sports 40hands.
Combine that with mental strenght, focused shield and far trick and you better hope he doesn't like to troll people.

Unarmed can be applied to pure...
NO, just NO.
Do you have any idea what kind of fighting monster that would be? The pure telekineticist should never, ever have access to the unarmed's weapon-system. Unarmed alone is already potentially overpowered (less potentially and more "Yes it is, but in high practical optimization games its still okay in its base form).
Of course I say that here and plan to do just that in a game that allows taking in class features from other classes, but overall its just insane.

your unarmed post:

I have to admit i can't really follow your calculations, but I am of the same opinion that unarmed is way too strong.

I go with a bog standard character with cha16/and con14 at level 2.
I'm going to disregard range penalties here so the actual amount might be a bit less in-game.
At that point he would have 3 hands.
Invest all of those and suddenly he has a weapon that does 3d6+6 with an attack bonus of +8.
At level 6 he should probably have a +2con and a +2cha item. So that 6 hands. That creates a weapon with +20 attack bonus and 6d6+14 damage.
Level 12 and he probably has +4 items for the stats. He now has 9 hands.
This results in +37 attack bonus and 9d6+25 damage.
Level 18 and he has +6 items, leading to 12 hands. Now the weapon has an attack bonus of +57 and a damage of 12d6+39.

This is all without even assigning any stat increases which drive up both attack and damage regardless where you put them.

Now imagine you actually could use this ACF in combination with pure telekineticist...

Not sure what to do with the attack bonus and such. Personally I'd consider maybe an increase in attack bonus of +1 per invested hand and a damage increase of half chamod per 2 invested hands beyond the first.

Veklim
2012-03-05, 06:43 AM
@ Veklim

That feat tree is awesome. It gives just enough incentive for people to really consider taking the individual feats throughout the entire tree. The bonuses the feats give are really well thought out when compared to the feat tax to get to them.
Thankyou! Not bad for 15 minutes work eh? :smallbiggrin:

However, they might need some exception rules for telekinetic Fighting as otherwise it can be read as allowing full attacking with only a move action which, especially with unarmed telekineticist, is way too good.If you check the feats carefully, TK Fighting isn't one of the listed abilities you can upgrade. I was planning on making a seperate TK Fighting tree which would allow a player to use TK Fighting as their primary attack function instead of for group support as it currently stands. It will also make it harder (via feat taxing) for a character to optimise TK Fighting on top of any one or two other abilities, very deliberate on my part :smallwink:


@ DerTollUdo

The ability is interesting, but +5 to DC per hand is too much (maybe +2). I would agree with the +2, it's in line with the rest of the class and other abilities, and gives you plenty of room to mess about still. I also agree that it should be +50lb/level for each additional hand, there's no way this will be used on most enemies by 19th level otherwise, they'd all be too big!



Not sure what to do with the attack bonus and such. Personally I'd consider maybe an increase in attack bonus of +1 per invested hand and a damage increase of half chamod per 2 invested hands beyond the first.

Unarmed needs some serious attention, and I even daresay a complete overhaul/rewrite. It is just broken honestly. I think taking a few cues from soulknife would be appropiate for the calculations on damage, adding a flatline +2 to hit and damage for each additional hand. This should make it a little more balanced. Considering the Unarmed ACF is designed to effectively replace TK Fighting, we can easily put in a Least, Lesser, Improved and Greater progression for it instead. This should allow us to be both more inventive (thinking status effects akin to the Force Blast nausea) and keep a tighter reign on scaling.

Also, does nobody else like the Mentalist ACF I made? I was gonna make one for each discipline but if people think it's a blind alley I shalln't bother! :smalltongue:

Re'ozul
2012-03-05, 09:15 AM
Durr, I wanted to post about the Mentalist but completely forgot after some time.

Things you lose:
Martial Skill and Critical Thinking are okay.
Please don't take telekinetic reach from this guy. While he gets shiny new abilities, reach is one of the few things that makes telekinetic fighting interesting for more support oriented characters. AoOs and flanking are vital for it.

Abilities:

The psi-likes are a nice bunch of powers and can be used a good amount of time. Especially useful as/if you can use more than one at a time with enough hands (though it cuts into your daily budget).
Hostile Empathic Transfer: Can you use your 'hands' for the touch attack?
This shows that you really should invest in con with this ACF.

Power Overwhelming is very well paced to make sure you never can attempt to get more virtual PP than your virtual manifester level.

Mind's eye. Oh boy, not only do you know where everyone is, you also know what everyone's thinking. Coupled with the elimination of the stun problem, this is very very good. Though it could lead to interesting situations when a player tries to read the thoughts of random things. I also hope he doesn't do a city adventure or the telekineticist will need a big prescription of aspirin.

The capstone modification:
OKay, but feels a bit restricting. Considering many characters who see this happen might go on into epic you could go with. "You always count as having an extra number of hands invested equal to half your total number hands you are allowed to augment it with."

DerTollUdo
2012-03-05, 12:49 PM
Wow, meant that change for Singularity. Must of been a typo when typing it up. Also changed the save bonus as I will go with what you guys think, as I am not always the best judge of balance lol. Fixed below.

As to the multiple targets adding dc, the ability is called singularity for a reason :) It is supposed to simulate creating a point of gravity and the enemies getting caught in it. More enemies=more gravity=they are screwed lol.

I was thinking about making one that does the opposite. Basically a repulsion from a point. Any thoughts on if I should or where to put it?

Singularity(SU): As a standard action, you may draw enemies to a designated point. This point may effect any or all creatures (not objects, although undead are susceptible) within 30' of the center point.
To do so, you must use one Hand (the singularity) + one Hand per target (the gravity) and each target may not be more than 50lbs/level. Upon using this ability, you must make a ranged touch attack against the target to 'grab' them with a hand, then the target must succeed on a Fort save or be drawn to to point. You may use more Hands per target to increase the saves and weight limit for this ability at an additional +2 Fort DC per Hand used for the target and +50lbs/level per Hand used for the target.

If they get drawn to the point, they are held there until they can pass a Fort save with an added difficulty of +2 per additional target caught in the singularity.

Upon collision with another target at the center point, each target takes bludgeoning damage equal to 2d6/10' each target traveled. For example, there are 3 targets. 1 travels 20' 2 travels 10' and 3 travels 30'. Upon collision at the center they each take 6d6 bludgeoning damage.

For each round, on the start of their turn that they begin in the singularity, each target will take 5d6 crushing damage as the force holding them applies pressure. You may invest more hands in the singularity, to increase the damage they take by an addition 5d6/Hand.

Thoughts?

Also, class retype with Hands addition for multiple actions, as that increases versatility, also I am just going to include the capstone modification that doubles the hands you gain from the class and feats as it really makes the capstone just shine :)

This is in need of PEACH. Just skip past the old comments.


Special thanks to VEKLIM and DerTollUdo for editing. It was a lot messier before.
Really, first time I got an editor, and the class is better for it...

So, I have tried to make blasters. They have all been kinda busy, and introduce too many new concepts. So going to try a different tact, something in line with an invoker.

The Telekineticist. A rather long name but oh well.

When the psionic talent begins to surface, they show odd signs. Some of these show it through the sudden movement of objects. Flying plates and tables mark a developing psion, yet some never grow out of it. These psions grow in power, standing up to psions in their own right as masters of psionic power.




Characteristics: The Telekineticist relies on its mind to create force affects. This can range from throwing a mass at a foe, throwing a foe, fighting with a weapon held with his mind, even to full power flight!

Alignment: The Telekineticist can be of any alignment. The power of the mind bares no alignment above others.

Religion: The Telekineticist favors gods of battle and psionics.

Races: Humans are drawn to this class like any other. Small races also enjoy this class, as it lets them use brains in place of brawn. Any mining race tends to have many Telekineticists since they aid in the mining process. All psionic races tend to favor this class like any other psionic class.

Other Classes: Martial classes tend to dislike The Telekineticist, as they seem too magical to be true martial. Magical classes enjoy The Telekineticist, as they seem to merely be imitating their own power.

Role: Can take on the role of a secondary tank, or perhaps stealth. But this class shines at battle field control. With numerous abilities for punishing foes unwilling to move as he wishes, and the ability to physically move foes into a formation of his choice, he can add some useful utility outside of combat while performing numerous tricks at a distance.

Game Rule Information:
Abilities:Charisma is very important, as it is the strength of The Telekineticist. Wisdom allows The Telekineticist to maintain effects longer, and constitution helps The Telekineticist stay alive while increasing maximum Hands.

Alignment: Any

Hit Die: d8

The Telekineticist
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

1st|+1|+0|+0|+2| Telekinetic Hands, Mental Strength, Force Blast, Wild Talent

2nd|+2|+0|+0|+3| Telekinetic Fighting: Least

3rd|+3|+1|+1|+3|Telekinetic Reach

4th|+4|+1|+1|+4| Far Trick

5th|+5|+1|+1|+4| Martial Skill, Mind's Eye

6th|+6/+1|+2|+2|+5| Telekinetic Fighting: Lesser, Far Trick

7th|+7/+2|+2|+2|+5| Telekinetic Flight

8th|+8/+3|+2|+2|+6| Far Trick

9th|+9/+4|+3|+3|+6| Martial Skill, Focused Shield

10th|+10/+5|+3|+3|+7| Telekinetic Flight: Improved, Mind's Eye, Far Trick

11th|+11/+6/+1|+3|+3|+7| Telekinetic Fighting: Improved, Critical Thinking

12th|+12/+7/+2|+4|+4|+8| Ghostly Hand

13th|+13/+8/+3|+4|+4|+8| Telekinetic Flight: Greater

14th|+14/+9/+4|+4|+4|+9| Martial Skill

15th|+15/+10/+5|+5|+5|+9| Disrupting Throw, Mind's Eye

16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+5|+5|+10| Telekinetic Fighting: Greater

17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+5|+5|+10| Ghostly Hand

18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+6|+6|+11| Critical Thinking

19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+6|+6|+11| Martial Skill, Singularity

20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+6|+6|+12| Master Of The Far Hand, Mind's Eye
[/table]

Class Skills

The Telekineticist's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are; Auto Hypnosis(Con), Balance(Dex), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Escape artist(Dex), Hide(Dex), Knowledge (Psionics)(Int), Open Lock(Dex), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Slight of hand(Dex), Spot(Wis), Tumble(Dex), Use Psionic Device(Cha), Use Rope(Dex), and Psicraft (Int).

Skill Points at First Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

Proficiencies: A Telekineticist is proficient with all Simple weapons and one martial melee weapon of their choice. They are also proficient with light and medium armor, and all shields.

Telekinetic Hands(SU): The Telekineticist has limited capability with his power. This capability is known as Telekinetic Hands, or just Hands. The Telekineticist has a number of Hands equal to 1 + 1/3 class levels + your Constitution modifier. These Hands have a range equal to 10ft/ class level.

If an ability that uses Hands requires a save, it has a DC of 10 + 1/2 class levels + charisma modifier. If they require a physical ability score (such as an opposed strength checks for a trip attempt), use the Charisma modifier instead. To use his Hands he must be psionically focused, although he does not expend his focus by doing so.

Any hand which is used for a non-sustained ability is considered used until the start of your next turn, and any hand used for a sustained ability is considered used until the ability is released.

Whenever you take an action with your hands, you may opt to instead make it a full round action. If you do so, you may use any other hand ability at the same time that has an equal or shorter action time at a cumulative -2 penalty for all rolls or saving throws involved in the actions per extra action taken.

For instance, Jimmy is a 12th level Telekineticist with 7 Hands, he chooses to use 3 of those hands to pick up weapons to aid in flanking with his friends (a standard action) and uses another 3 Hands to bullrush a closing pack of enemies (another standard action). He would have to make all attack and opposed rolls for each of these actions at an additional -2, because his attention is split between 2 different abilities. If he also wished to use his last hand to make a focused shield in this time, the penalties for multiple actions would increase to -4 to all rolls.

Mental Strength(SU): The Telekineticist can move an object with his mind, or perform some act of manual dexterity at any distance within the range of his Hands as a standard action.

He may move up to 50lb/level at a rate of 30' per action, objects up to 100lb/level at a rate of 20' per action, and objects up to 150lb/level at a rate of 10' per action. You may add additional Hands to increase the speed by 10' per Hand.

These movements are not limited in direction, but do have a limited duration. The Telekineticist can maintain pressure for up to wisdom modifier rounds, after that the object drops to the ground and the Telekineticist is fatigued for 1d4 rounds. You may not initiate this ability if you are fatigued. If you cease pressure, and do not use any ability requiring Telekinetic Hands for a full round, the duration you may keep this up is reset.

Creatures may be moved in this way, but they get a will save to negate the effects each round. Any movement from this ability provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. The Telekineticist may not use this ability on himself.

Objects weighing 25lb + 25lb/3 levels may be maintained without limit with one Hand. You may invest more Hands to sustain 25lbs/level per invested Hand without limit.

The Telekineticist can also perform a feat of manual dexterity anywhere within the maximum range of his powers. This manipulation is limited by the number of hands used. If you wish to do something which would require two physical hands to achieve (like tie a knot in some rope), then you must use at least 2 hands. No additional effect is had by using more Hands than necessary for any given action.

Force Blast(SU):As a standard action, the Telekineticist can launch a number of objects within the range of his Hands. Each object may weigh no more than 25lb/level, and requires the use of a single Hand/object. The object(s) travel up to 10ft/level and this movement may take it outside of the Hands range.

The Telekineticist makes a single standard ranged attack (in the case of multiple targets, this result is applied to each target separately), with a -2 penalty for each object thrown beyond the first. Each object deals bludgeoning or piercing damage (DM's choice) depending on it's weight up to 1d6/25lb. Regardless of the item launched, you do not take a non-proficiency penalty for this attack. Weapons launched with this power deal bludgeoning damage according to their weight unless you are proficient with them, at which point you may deal normal weapon damage (and damage type) instead. The object or weapon deals an additional +1d6 damage for each full 10ft of movement it had remaining when it hits. The critical threat of weapons used this way is 20/x2, only one roll need be made to confirm all attacks and criticals made with a single use of Force Blast. Any enchantments or abilities the weapon/s may have are applied individually. The keen enchantment, or any similar ability involving critical threat ranges does not apply. A flaming burst weapon would always consider it's threat range as 20/x2.

You may also focus this ability in an attempt to rip the target apart from the inside. As a standard action, you may attack one target with 1 blast per Hand you wish to use, or you may split up the targets per Hand you use.

The Telekineticist makes a single standard ranged touch attack (in the case of multiple targets, this result is applied to each target separately, with a -2 penalty for each target after the first). This attack deals 1D4/class level force damage and the target must succeed on a fortitude save or be nauseated for 1D4 rounds. This ability only functions within the range of your Hands. This ability effects objects.

You may not launch creatures with this ability.

Wild Talent: You gain the feat Wild Talent as a bonus feat.

Telekinetic Fighting(SU):

Least:
At 2nd level The Telekineticist may use Hands to wield weapons he is proficient with and fight within the range of his Hands. Any weapon wielded in this fashion may be moved up to 30ft in a round as a free action.

As a standard action, you may make a single melee attack with one such weapon, using Charisma instead of Strength for the to hit and damage rolls. You only threaten squares within your physical reach, if the weapon is beyond this range it does not threaten on it's own. A one-handed or smaller weapon requires one Hand and a two-handed weapon requires two Hands to use. Any weapon(s) held by your Hands may have additional Hands added to it, each increasing the damage by 1/2 charisma modifier.

The Telekineticist suffers -1 to hit for every 10ft increment between the weapon and The Telekineticist, and a -1 to damage for every 20ft increment between the weapon and The Telekineticist, to a maximum of the range of his Hands. He may maintain this effect for a number of rounds equal to his constitution score per encounter.

Lesser:
At 6th level you may make a full attack with the weapon(s) you are wielding with Telekinetic Fighting. You may not make more attacks than you could without your Telekinetic Hands, but you may spread your iterative attacks between weapons at no penalty, although the range penalty still applies. You may now hold a light or heavy shield with one Hand or a tower shield in two Hands. Such a shield may occupy any square including your own or those of your allies (but not an enemy's) and confers on anyone in that square the shield's AC bonus as a shield bonus to their own AC.

Improved:
As a standard action you may attack once with each weapon wielded by your Telekinetic Fighting. This is done with a single attack roll at your highest attack bonus, but takes a penalty to hit equal to the number of weapons being wielded -1.
You may wield a weapon of a larger size category than you normally could for your size. For every size category larger than normal, the weapon requires an additional Hand to wield, these Hands do not add extra damage, but you may add further Hands to do so.

The duration you may maintain this effect is removed.

Greater:
At 16th level you no longer take the distance penalties for the distance between you and your weapon, but you are still limited to the range of your Hands. Also, as a fullround action, you may attack with each weapon you hold with Hands up to the number of attacks granted from you BAB for each weapon plus any extra attacks granted from feats or weapon enchantments.

Telekinetic Reach(SU): At third level, any weapon you are wielding with your Telekinetic Fighting threatens adjacent squares as normal for a weapon of it's type. If the weapon has the reach quality then calculate accordingly.

Far Trick(SU):Starting at 4th lvl when your powers start to mature, you gain the ability to make specific types of attacks within the range of your Hands. These work as normal except Charisma is used instead of any physical score, and your size bonus (or penalty) does not apply to these checks.

Each ability initially receives a penalty of -1/10ft away from the target you are. Each ability requires one hand to activate.

At 4th level you may attempt to break down a door or bullrush an opponent.

At 6th level you may attempt disarm attempts against foes. The penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/20ft.

At 8th level you may attempt trip attempts against foes. The penalty for disarming is reduced to -1/20ft, and the penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/40ft.

At 10th level you may attempt to grapple foes. The penalty for tripping is reduced to -1/20ft, the penalty for disarming is reduced to -1/40ft, and the penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/80ft.

Minds eye(SU): At 5th level, as a full round action you may gain blindsight out to half the range of your Hands until the end of your next turn. You must be psionically focused to do this.

At 10th level this increases to the full range of your Hands.

At 15th level you may maintain this ability indefinitely with one hand.

At 20th level this ability no longer requires a Hand to maintain and is always active (even when you are not psionically focused).

Martial Skill (EX): You may not be a fighter, but you understand weapons of war.

At 5th level you gain two additional martial weapon proficiencies of your choice.

At 9th level you gain two more additional martial weapon proficiencies of your choice.

At 14th level you gain one additional martial weapon proficiency and one additional exotic weapon proficiency of your choice.

At 19th level you gain two additional exotic weapon proficiencies of your choice.

Telekinetic Flight(SU): You have finally mastered moving yourself using your Hands. One Hand is required to initiate and sustain flight. If you reach the duration of the ability, you immediately descend directly downwards at a rate equal to the fly speed (taking falling damage if you fail to reach solid ground in this distance) and become fatigued for 1d4 rounds. You may not initiate this ability if you are fatigued If you cease flying, and do not use any ability requiring Telekinetic Hands for a full round, the duration you may keep this up is reset.

At 7th level, you may fly at a speed of 30ft with perfect maneuverability for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom modifier. You may keep this flight up indefinitely by using three hands.

At 11th level, your fly speed increases to 40ft and you may stay aloft for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom score. You only need two to keep this up indefinitely.

At 13th level, your fly speed increases to 60ft and may be sustained indefinitely with only one Hand.

Focused Shield(SU):At 9th level you may create a barrier with your Hands as a move action. Any unattended objects or projectiles (including spells which require an attack roll) are instantly stopped and cannot pass through. If a creature attempts to pass through, it suffers an immediate bullrush attack upon contact with the barrier, as if the barrier were a gargantuan creature with a Strength score equal to your Charisma score. If the barrier wins the opposed check, the creature is pushed back 5ft (but no more, since the barrier cannot move from the squares it has been placed in). If the creature wins, it forces it's way through the barrier, causing it to disperse.

In either case the creature takes force damage equal to 1D6 +1/ class level. The barrier is a 10ft pane, positioned as you please within Telekinesis range and requires 1 Hand to maintain. You may create and maintain multiple barriers at once, any number of barriers may be set as part of the same move action so long as you have enough hands free to create them.

You may invest 1 more Hand to increase the damage dealt to 1D6/class level. For each additional Hand invested in this fashion you may add 1D6/class level.

You may invest 1 additional Hand to shape the Shield. All parts must be touching, and no smaller than 5'x5'.

You may invest additional Hands to increase the size of the shield at a rate of 5'x5' per Hand. Thus with 1 extra Hand it is a 15' pane, 2 becomes 20' and so on.

Critical Thinking(EX): Starting at 11th level, you have learned how to wield a weapon in the most dangerous fashion.

At level 11 weapons with which you are proficient used in Force Blast get their normal critical threat range.

At level 18 all objects wielded with Telekinetic Hands get their normal threat range and are treated as though you had Improved Critical. You do not actually gain the feat, and it does not count for prerequisites. This ability stacks in the same way as the feat.

Ghostly Hand(SU): At 12th level, your abilities become capable of affecting ethereal objects and enemies. Objects thrown using Force Blast must be ethereal to do so, but weapons wielded using Telekinetic Fighting are treated as being both corporeal and ethereal from now on.

At 17th level all your abilities can effect creatures and objects from any coterminous planes.

Disrupting Throw(SU): At 15th level, as an immediate action, you may attempt an attack of opportunity against any opponent up to 5ft/class level away. They must have just taken an action which would provoke an attack of opportunity were you adjacent to them, but you need not be threatening the opponent. You may use your Force Blast ability, or any of the abilities you know through Far Trick. This counts towards your attacks of opportunity for the round.

Singularity(SU):As a standard action, you may draw enemies to a designated point. This point may effect any or all creatures (not objects, although undead are susceptible) within 30' of the center point.
To do so, you must use one Hand (the singularity) + one Hand per target (the gravity) and each target may not be more than 50lbs/level. Upon using this ability, you must make a ranged touch attack against the target to 'grab' them with a hand, then the target must succeed on a Fort save or be drawn to to point. You may use more Hands per target to increase the saves and weight limit for this ability at an additional +2 Fort DC per Hand used for the target and +50lbs/level per Hand used for the target.

If they get drawn to the point, they are held there until they can pass a Fort save with an added difficulty of +2 per additional target caught in the singularity.

Upon collision with another target at the center point, each target takes bludgeoning damage equal to 2d6/10' each target traveled. For example, there are 3 targets. 1 travels 20' 2 travels 10' and 3 travels 30'. Upon collision at the center they each take 6d6 bludgeoning damage.

For each round, on the start of their turn that they begin in the singularity, each target will take 5d6 crushing damage as the force holding them applies pressure. You may invest more hands in the singularity, to increase the damage they take by an addition 5d6/Hand.

Master Of The Far Hand(EX): At 20th level, you have reached the pinnacle of your mental power. Reality becomes an illusion which you can bend like putty, and many of your abilities are enhanced as follows:

All your class abilities are now considered Extraordinary.

Your Disrupting Throw becomes a free action, still taking up an attack of opportunity per use. It may also be used anywhere within your Telekinesis range.

Your flight speed increases to 120ft.

You no longer take range penalties to your far tricks.

You no longer take range penalties to your Telekinetic Fighting.

The Telekinetic Hands gained through class levels and feats is doubled from this point on.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

ACFs

Pure Telekineticist.

Replaces: Martial Skill, Telekinetic Fighting, Martial Weapon Proficiency, and Telekinetic Reach.

Benefit:The number of Hands you have is increased to 1 Hand/Class Level. The range of your telekinesis increases to 20ft/level.


Unarmed Telekineticist

Replaces: Martial Skill, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Medium Armor Proficiency.

Benefit: You may generate weapons of pure force. These deal damage equal to 1d6/Hand force damage. They gain a bonus to hit and to damage equal to 1/2*Charisma Modifier*(Invested Hands + 1). These are treated as weapons the Telekineticist is proficient with for all purposes. Their critical range is 20/x2.

Special: Can be applied with the Pure Telekineticist ACF



Magic Items
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Miniature Boulder:
This item is very useful to a Telekineticist. It has the dimensions of a marble, and weighs much the same.
As a move action (or free action with the quick draw feat) the marble can be activated. After its activation, the marble can be made to weigh up to 500lb, always growing to a foot diameter sphere. Another move action is required to reduce it back down to marble size.



As to unarmed, I feel like a simple limit of being able to invest only 1 Hand per level per weapon would curb its power nicely without crippling it. And doing that would make it so even the Pure couldn't abuse it too easily.

Also, fluff wise, any thoughts on what the weapons should be allowed to resemble?






@ DerTollUdo

The ability is interesting, but +5 to DC per hand is too much (maybe +2). Also, it would probably be better to allow +50lb/lvl for each extra hand as otherwise even large enemies might never be affectable.
I'd actually make it easier for them to escape if more enemies are inside.
Considering what you have here is an area immobilization attack, it should be easier to hold one person rather than many.
The damage is okay and the crushing is interesting.
This is definitely something for later in the class, maybe somewhere level 10+.


I disagree with he making it easier for multiple people, reason above, but also because he is a battlefield controller. Hard to control the field if you can only hold one guy at a time.




On the retype:

I still don't really like mental strenght due to it not being linear. The 'more hands=more speed' is nice but the current system weight restriction means that huge enemies (even if you forgoe the borked core weights given in the MM and such) are outside of what you can ever do. A large creature weighs 8 times as much as a medium, so thats easily 1,600lb and even if you go huge being 27 times, thats already 5400lb and as such way above what you can do.

I can only do so much on my own lol, what would your suggestion be? The only other suggestion I have is to make the weight limit (25*invested hands/level) for indefinite sustain and (50*invested hands/level) for the effort one with a speed of 5'/rd/invested hand.



Telekinetic Fighting looks pretty good now, though I am unsure wether the greater version isn't too strong since you reduced both forms of penalties to only a -1 (per 10' distance/per extra weapon). Then again, most of the time you do best damage with only one weapon anyway and most others will be providing flanking and such.
Though this brings up a question, can an enemy move through squares occupied by weapons, or could you box them in?

The penalties are range -1/10' damage is -1/20' harder to hit, but can still be a threat at high ranges, this means that at lvl15 hitting someone at your range would impose -15 to hit and -7 to damage.



Far trick is more reasonably paced, though it really wasn't bad before.

After looking at it I felt that grappling that late was basically pointless. So, I made it happen earlier.



Focused Shield is more like a psionic power now as you can decide what bonuses you want for extra invested hands. I guess the extra size option means that: 1hand=10'x10'; 2hands=15'x15', 3hands=20'x20'
Together with the option to shape it, could I do the following?
I invest 4 hands into size, making it a 25'x25', which means 25 individual 5'x5' wall segments. I now invest an extra hand to make it shapeable and use it to make a 10' high wall encasing a 15'x15' area to box in a medium enemy.

You are right about the sizing part.
As to your example, you would get 25 wall segments. As for the area you wanted to cover, you are correct that you can build 4 10'walls 15' long. You would have 1 extra 5'x5' panel to boot!

I feel like that is what I going for, but do you guys feel it is too strong?

Oh and at one point someone said about the abilities effecting coterminous planes, this is one that it would apply to easily. The walls would be able to stop incorporeal creatures.

Hmmm, I wonder if we should do something that makes the wall harder to get through?



New capstone:
Say hello to the pure telekineticist who now sports 40hands.
Combine that with mental strenght, focused shield and far trick and you better hope he doesn't like to troll people.

Powerful yes, game breaking no, epic preparing yes. Balanced? I think so, how about you?



Unarmed can be applied to pure...
NO, just NO.
Do you have any idea what kind of fighting monster that would be? The pure telekineticist should never, ever have access to the unarmed's weapon-system. Unarmed alone is already potentially overpowered (less potentially and more "Yes it is, but in high practical optimization games its still okay in its base form).
Of course I say that here and plan to do just that in a game that allows taking in class features from other classes, but overall its just insane.

I will listen to your thoughts about it being overpowered, I will probably even accepted, but you must first give a solid reason as to why. Examples with and without pure.



your unarmed post:

I have to admit i can't really follow your calculations, but I am of the same opinion that unarmed is way too strong.

I go with a bog standard character with cha16/and con14 at level 2.
I'm going to disregard range penalties here so the actual amount might be a bit less in-game.
At that point he would have 3 hands.
Invest all of those and suddenly he has a weapon that does 3d6+6 with an attack bonus of +8.
At level 6 he should probably have a +2con and a +2cha item. So that 6 hands. That creates a weapon with +20 attack bonus and 6d6+14 damage.
Level 12 and he probably has +4 items for the stats. He now has 9 hands.
This results in +37 attack bonus and 9d6+25 damage.
Level 18 and he has +6 items, leading to 12 hands. Now the weapon has an attack bonus of +57 and a damage of 12d6+39.

This is all without even assigning any stat increases which drive up both attack and damage regardless where you put them.

Now imagine you actually could use this ACF in combination with pure telekineticist...

Not sure what to do with the attack bonus and such. Personally I'd consider maybe an increase in attack bonus of +1 per invested hand and a damage increase of half chamod per 2 invested hands beyond the first.

I say, let's try this with a new calculation. .5*chamod*(invested Hands+1) max Hands invested equal to your class levels.

Would that solve the issue?
Calculations become at level 1 chamod to hit and damage. At level 13 it becomes 7*chamod. So for you example, that becomes:
Level2 2d6+3 +3 to hit
Level6 6d6+12 +12 to hit
Level12 9d6+20 +20 to hit
Level18 12d6+36 +36 to hit

Seems better to me. Thoughts?

Veklim
2012-03-05, 06:23 PM
Thinking about singularity, it' fine to add +2 DC per affected target, because the more targets there are, the less hands you can put on any one of them. This way actually balances itself nicely in a kinda perverse way!

With regards to the Repulsion idea, it would make a lot of sense to me if it were the same ability as Singularity. Either you pull everyone in together and hold them there for damage, or you throw everyone outwards to make space and deal damage. All you have to change is the direction of movement, put in a maximum range for targets, probably make it something like every target in a 30ft radius of the central hand is thrown 30ft + 30ft/additional hand devoted to the target, then you just hurt them for 5D6 damage + 1D6 per extra hand and they can't re-enter the 30ft area until the end of the effect. Should be reflex for half damage, on a failed save they land prone.

Unarmed and Pure can't co-exist, since they both replace martial skill and martial weapon proficiency. This is not a problem IMO. HOWEVER!!! The replacements seem all wrong to me, surely Unarmed should lose TK Fighting, and Pure should lose weapon/armour proficiencies and Critical thinking...? In my mind the ACF placeholders should be like this:
Pure Replaces: Medium Armour Proficiency, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Martial Skill, Critical Thinking.
Unarmed Replaces: Martial Weapon Proficiency, TK Fighting, Telekinetic Reach, Martial Skill, Critical Thinking
We then write an unarmed version for TK Fighting (tier by tier replacement abilities), TK Reach (make a scaling ability which ups the damage/to hit with extra hands with this perhaps) & Critical Thinking (something like status effect nasties would be good for a replacement here), and switch them on a 1:1 basis.

I think Pure is fine since it replaces TK Fighting, so their utility steps away from melee and into control. Unarmed is just too complicated/powerful though, no matter how you tweak the numbers, you're still multiplying Cha modifier by large numbers of hands which makes a level 10 Unarmed TK look just a little terrifiying.

Why don't we make Unarmed TK work so each hand can become a soulknife-esque blade instead. To get more damage, you just use more on a target, kinda like the thousand cuts approach. The damage per hand could scale quite happily using the ACF replacement abilities and we could give them interesting options to distinguish between standard and unarmed TKs a bit more than 'This guy uses swords and this guy creates swords to use'

With regards to Mental Strength, I like the simplicity of 25lb/level/hand for indefinite use and 50lb/level/hand for limited duration. I have an idea for the next bit, bear with me!!
Carrying capacity is already existant, so what if we consider 50lb/level/hand to be a heavy load? 20ft/round (lift off ground) would then be double heavy load, 10ft/round (push or drag, therefore movement but only along the ground) would be five times heavy load.
Works to allow for heavier stuff getting moved more slowly (which is an element of the original which I always liked), adding the dynamic of REALLY heavy stuff getting pushed/dragged instead of flung about!

Will break down the Mentalist thingy soon, tweak and format into a choice of any one psionic discipline as a 'psionic domain' for these guys. That and TK Fighting feats should occur in the next day or so!

DerTollUdo
2012-03-05, 08:30 PM
Ok fine. I give up. The two can't blend. While I dont see it as OP I can see that they would give up only a little to have super swords and infinite battlefield control.
With that said, they do need different things to give up I agree. Also that those things should be replaced instead of simply forgotten. Start up some theories and Ill do the same. Just gotta get some more time and I will put mine up.
I like the repulsion in singularity. Will add it in.

I work great when people give me ideas, less so when trying to make my own lol so your ideas help :)

DarkSunLord1
2012-03-05, 10:51 PM
Interesting. Have you any thoughts on giving this class epic level rules?

bobthe6th
2012-03-05, 10:54 PM
once the others stop overhauling, It would be feasible... as is, you can make them, I just expect minor changes later that would through the progression off.

DarkSunLord1
2012-03-05, 11:12 PM
once the others stop overhauling, It would be feasible... as is, you can make them, I just expect minor changes later that would through the progression off.

Unfortunately, I have no personal experience with making rule mechanics for any roleplaying game

If you have not already looked, however, I do think a way to evolve this class may be found in looking at the powers of the Diclonius of the anime/manga "Elfen Lied".

DerTollUdo
2012-03-05, 11:13 PM
Oh Bob, you make it sound like you don't want us helping you :P
But seriously, you can always say you dont like any of the changes. Or help us make more so we can make a viable option based class ;)

bobthe6th
2012-03-05, 11:28 PM
not my intention. the more you to change it, and the less I look at it in the process, the better. once I get a big chunk of time, I'll go over the new base, futz with it, and the process starts anew. editing and revising are beautiful things. but as this is still in a permeable form, making an epic progression is a bit silly. additionally I would be bad for that as I have little to no epic play experience...

DerTollUdo
2012-03-06, 10:26 AM
This is in need of PEACH. Just skip past the old comments.


Special thanks to VEKLIM and DerTollUdo for editing. It was a lot messier before.
Really, first time I got an editor, and the class is better for it...

ok, at this point, I give these to a good bit of the credit. I made the classic version in the top spoiler(verklim edited it), but those two overhauld the below with little help from me(got busy...).


So, I have tried to make blasters. They have all been kinda busy, and introduce too many new concepts. So going to try a different tact, something in line with an invoker.

The Telekineticist. A rather long name but oh well.

When the psionic talent begins to surface, they show odd signs. Some of these show it through the sudden movement of objects. Flying plates and tables mark a developing psion, yet some never grow out of it. These psions grow in power, standing up to psions in their own right as masters of psionic power.




Characteristics: The Telekineticist relies on its mind to create force affects. This can range from throwing a mass at a foe, throwing a foe, fighting with a weapon held with his mind, even to full power flight!

Alignment: The Telekineticist can be of any alignment. The power of the mind bares no alignment above others.

Religion: The Telekineticist favors gods of battle and psionics.

Races: Humans are drawn to this class like any other. Small races also enjoy this class, as it lets them use brains in place of brawn. Any mining race tends to have many Telekineticists since they aid in the mining process. All psionic races tend to favor this class like any other psionic class.

Other Classes: Martial classes tend to dislike The Telekineticist, as they seem too magical to be true martial. Magical classes enjoy The Telekineticist, as they seem to merely be imitating their own power.

Role: Can take on the role of a secondary tank, or perhaps stealth. But this class shines at battle field control. With numerous abilities for punishing foes unwilling to move as he wishes, and the ability to physically move foes into a formation of his choice, he can add some useful utility outside of combat while performing numerous tricks at a distance.

Game Rule Information:
Abilities:Charisma is very important, as it is the strength of The Telekineticist. Wisdom allows The Telekineticist to maintain effects longer, and constitution helps The Telekineticist stay alive while increasing maximum Hands.

Alignment: Any

Hit Die: d8

The Telekineticist
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

1st|+1|+0|+0|+2| Telekinetic Hands, Mental Strength, Force Blast, Wild Talent

2nd|+2|+0|+0|+3| Telekinetic Fighting: Least

3rd|+3|+1|+1|+3|Telekinetic Reach

4th|+4|+1|+1|+4| Far Trick

5th|+5|+1|+1|+4| Martial Skill, Mind's Eye

6th|+6/+1|+2|+2|+5| Telekinetic Fighting: Lesser, Far Trick

7th|+7/+2|+2|+2|+5| Telekinetic Flight

8th|+8/+3|+2|+2|+6| Far Trick

9th|+9/+4|+3|+3|+6| Martial Skill, Focused Shield

10th|+10/+5|+3|+3|+7| Telekinetic Flight: Improved, Mind's Eye, Far Trick

11th|+11/+6/+1|+3|+3|+7| Telekinetic Fighting: Improved, Critical Thinking

12th|+12/+7/+2|+4|+4|+8| Ghostly Hand

13th|+13/+8/+3|+4|+4|+8| Telekinetic Flight: Greater

14th|+14/+9/+4|+4|+4|+9| Martial Skill

15th|+15/+10/+5|+5|+5|+9| Disrupting Throw, Mind's Eye

16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+5|+5|+10| Telekinetic Fighting: Greater

17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+5|+5|+10| Ghostly Hand

18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+6|+6|+11| Critical Thinking

19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+6|+6|+11| Martial Skill, Singularity

20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+6|+6|+12| Master Of The Far Hand, Mind's Eye
[/table]

Class Skills

The Telekineticist's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are; Auto Hypnosis(Con), Balance(Dex), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Escape artist(Dex), Hide(Dex), Knowledge (Psionics)(Int), Open Lock(Dex), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Slight of hand(Dex), Spot(Wis), Tumble(Dex), Use Psionic Device(Cha), Use Rope(Dex), and Psicraft (Int).

Skill Points at First Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

Proficiencies: A Telekineticist is proficient with all Simple weapons and one martial melee weapon of their choice. They are also proficient with light and medium armor, and all shields.

Telekinetic Hands(SU): The Telekineticist has limited capability with his power. This capability is known as Telekinetic Hands, or just Hands. The Telekineticist has a number of Hands equal to 1 + 1/3 class levels + your Constitution modifier. These Hands have a range equal to 10ft/ class level.

If an ability that uses Hands requires a save, it has a DC of 10 + 1/2 class levels + charisma modifier. If they require a physical ability score (such as an opposed strength checks for a trip attempt), use the Charisma modifier instead. To use his Hands he must be psionically focused, although he does not expend his focus by doing so.

Any hand which is used for a non-sustained ability is considered used until the start of your next turn, and any hand used for a sustained ability is considered used until the ability is released.

Whenever you take an action with your hands, you may opt to instead make it a full round action. If you do so, you may use any other hand ability at the same time that has an equal or shorter action time at a cumulative -2 penalty for all rolls or saving throws involved in the actions per extra action taken.

For instance, Jimmy is a 12th level Telekineticist with 7 Hands, he chooses to use 3 of those hands to pick up weapons to aid in flanking with his friends (a standard action) and uses another 3 Hands to bullrush a closing pack of enemies (another standard action). He would have to make all attack and opposed rolls for each of these actions at an additional -2, because his attention is split between 2 different abilities. If he also wished to use his last hand to make a focused shield in this time, the penalties for multiple actions would increase to -4 to all rolls.

Mental Strength(SU): The Telekineticist can move an object with his mind, or perform some act of manual dexterity at any distance within the range of his Hands as a standard action.

He may move up to 50lb/level at a rate of 30' per action, objects up to 100lb/level at a rate of 20' per action, and objects up to 150lb/level at a rate of 10' per action. You may add additional Hands to increase the speed by 10' per Hand.

These movements are not limited in direction, but do have a limited duration. The Telekineticist can maintain pressure for up to wisdom modifier rounds, after that the object drops to the ground and the Telekineticist is fatigued for 1d4 rounds. You may not initiate this ability if you are fatigued. If you cease pressure, and do not use any ability requiring Telekinetic Hands for a full round, the duration you may keep this up is reset.

Creatures may be moved in this way, but they get a will save to negate the effects each round. Any movement from this ability provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. The Telekineticist may not use this ability on himself.

Objects weighing 25lb + 25lb/3 levels may be maintained without limit with one Hand. You may invest more Hands to sustain 25lbs/level per invested Hand without limit.

The Telekineticist can also perform a feat of manual dexterity anywhere within the maximum range of his powers. This manipulation is limited by the number of hands used. If you wish to do something which would require two physical hands to achieve (like tie a knot in some rope), then you must use at least 2 hands. No additional effect is had by using more Hands than necessary for any given action.

Force Blast(SU):As a standard action, the Telekineticist can launch a number of objects within the range of his Hands. Each object may weigh no more than 25lb/level, and requires the use of a single Hand/object. The object(s) travel up to 10ft/level and this movement may take it outside of the Hands range.

The Telekineticist makes a single standard ranged attack (in the case of multiple targets, this result is applied to each target separately), with a -2 penalty for each object thrown beyond the first. Each object deals bludgeoning or piercing damage (DM's choice) depending on it's weight up to 1d6/25lb. Regardless of the item launched, you do not take a non-proficiency penalty for this attack. Weapons launched with this power deal bludgeoning damage according to their weight unless you are proficient with them, at which point you may deal normal weapon damage (and damage type) instead. The object or weapon deals an additional +1d6 damage for each full 10ft of movement it had remaining when it hits. The critical threat of weapons used this way is 20/x2, only one roll need be made to confirm all attacks and criticals made with a single use of Force Blast. Any enchantments or abilities the weapon/s may have are applied individually. The keen enchantment, or any similar ability involving critical threat ranges does not apply. A flaming burst weapon would always consider it's threat range as 20/x2.

You may also focus this ability in an attempt to rip the target apart from the inside. As a standard action, you may attack one target with 1 blast per Hand you wish to use, or you may split up the targets per Hand you use.

The Telekineticist makes a single standard ranged touch attack (in the case of multiple targets, this result is applied to each target separately, with a -2 penalty for each target after the first). This attack deals 1D4/class level force damage and the target must succeed on a fortitude save or be nauseated for 1D4 rounds. This ability only functions within the range of your Hands. This ability effects objects.

You may not launch creatures with this ability.

Wild Talent: You gain the feat Wild Talent as a bonus feat.

Telekinetic Fighting(SU):

Least:
At 2nd level The Telekineticist may use Hands to wield weapons he is proficient with and fight within the range of his Hands. Any weapon wielded in this fashion may be moved up to 30ft in a round as a free action.

As a standard action, you may make a single melee attack with one such weapon, using Charisma instead of Strength for the to hit and damage rolls. You only threaten squares within your physical reach, if the weapon is beyond this range it does not threaten on it's own. A one-handed or smaller weapon requires one Hand and a two-handed weapon requires two Hands to use. Any weapon(s) held by your Hands may have additional Hands added to it, each increasing the damage by 1/2 charisma modifier.

The Telekineticist suffers -1 to hit for every 10ft increment between the weapon and The Telekineticist, and a -1 to damage for every 20ft increment between the weapon and The Telekineticist, to a maximum of the range of his Hands. He may maintain this effect for a number of rounds equal to his constitution score per encounter.

Lesser:
At 6th level you may make a full attack with the weapon(s) you are wielding with Telekinetic Fighting. You may not make more attacks than you could without your Telekinetic Hands, but you may spread your iterative attacks between weapons at no penalty, although the range penalty still applies. You may now hold a light or heavy shield with one Hand or a tower shield in two Hands. Such a shield may occupy any square including your own or those of your allies (but not an enemy's) and confers on anyone in that square the shield's AC bonus as a shield bonus to their own AC.

Improved:
As a standard action you may attack once with each weapon wielded by your Telekinetic Fighting. This is done with a single attack roll at your highest attack bonus, but takes a penalty to hit equal to the number of weapons being wielded -1.
You may wield a weapon of a larger size category than you normally could for your size. For every size category larger than normal, the weapon requires an additional Hand to wield, these Hands do not add extra damage, but you may add further Hands to do so.

The duration you may maintain this effect is removed.

Greater:
At 16th level you no longer take the distance penalties for the distance between you and your weapon, but you are still limited to the range of your Hands. Also, as a fullround action, you may attack with each weapon you hold with Hands up to the number of attacks granted from you BAB for each weapon plus any extra attacks granted from feats or weapon enchantments.

Telekinetic Reach(SU): At third level, any weapon you are wielding with your Telekinetic Fighting threatens adjacent squares as normal for a weapon of it's type. If the weapon has the reach quality then calculate accordingly.

Far Trick(SU):Starting at 4th lvl when your powers start to mature, you gain the ability to make specific types of attacks within the range of your Hands. These work as normal except Charisma is used instead of any physical score, and your size bonus (or penalty) does not apply to these checks.

Each ability initially receives a penalty of -1/10ft away from the target you are. Each ability requires one hand to activate.

At 4th level you may attempt to break down a door or bullrush an opponent.

At 6th level you may attempt disarm attempts against foes. The penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/20ft.

At 8th level you may attempt trip attempts against foes. The penalty for disarming is reduced to -1/20ft, and the penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/40ft.

At 10th level you may attempt to grapple foes. The penalty for tripping is reduced to -1/20ft, the penalty for disarming is reduced to -1/40ft, and the penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/80ft.

Minds eye(SU): At 5th level, as a full round action you may gain blindsight out to half the range of your Hands until the end of your next turn. You must be psionically focused to do this.

At 10th level this increases to the full range of your Hands.

At 15th level you may maintain this ability indefinitely with one hand.

At 20th level this ability no longer requires a Hand to maintain and is always active (even when you are not psionically focused).

Martial Skill (EX): You may not be a fighter, but you understand weapons of war.

At 5th level you gain two additional martial weapon proficiencies of your choice.

At 9th level you gain two more additional martial weapon proficiencies of your choice.

At 14th level you gain one additional martial weapon proficiency and one additional exotic weapon proficiency of your choice.

At 19th level you gain two additional exotic weapon proficiencies of your choice.

Telekinetic Flight(SU): You have finally mastered moving yourself using your Hands. One Hand is required to initiate and sustain flight. If you reach the duration of the ability, you immediately descend directly downwards at a rate equal to the fly speed (taking falling damage if you fail to reach solid ground in this distance) and become fatigued for 1d4 rounds. You may not initiate this ability if you are fatigued If you cease flying, and do not use any ability requiring Telekinetic Hands for a full round, the duration you may keep this up is reset.

At 7th level, you may fly at a speed of 30ft with perfect maneuverability for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom modifier. You may keep this flight up indefinitely by using three hands.

At 11th level, your fly speed increases to 40ft and you may stay aloft for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom score. You only need two to keep this up indefinitely.

At 13th level, your fly speed increases to 60ft and may be sustained indefinitely with only one Hand.

Focused Shield(SU):At 9th level you may create a barrier with your Hands as a move action. Any unattended objects or projectiles (including spells which require an attack roll) are instantly stopped and cannot pass through. If a creature attempts to pass through, it suffers an immediate bullrush attack upon contact with the barrier, as if the barrier were a gargantuan creature with a Strength score equal to your Charisma score. If the barrier wins the opposed check, the creature is pushed back 5ft (but no more, since the barrier cannot move from the squares it has been placed in). If the creature wins, it forces it's way through the barrier, causing it to disperse.

In either case the creature takes force damage equal to 1D6 +1/ class level. The barrier is a 10ft pane, positioned as you please within Telekinesis range and requires 1 Hand to maintain. You may create and maintain multiple barriers at once, any number of barriers may be set as part of the same move action so long as you have enough hands free to create them.

You may invest 1 more Hand to increase the damage dealt to 1D6/class level. For each additional Hand invested in this fashion you may add 1D6/class level.

You may invest 1 additional Hand to shape the Shield. All parts must be touching.

You may invest additional Hands to increase the size of the shield at a rate of 5'x5' per Hand. Thus with 1 extra Hand it is a 15' pane, 2 becomes 20' and so on.

Critical Thinking(EX): Starting at 11th level, you have learned how to wield a weapon in the most dangerous fashion.

At level 11 weapons with which you are proficient used in Force Blast get their normal critical threat range.

At level 18 all objects wielded with Telekinetic Hands get their normal threat range and are treated as though you had Improved Critical. You do not actually gain the feat, and it does not count for prerequisites. This ability stacks in the same way as the feat.

Ghostly Hand(SU): At 12th level, your abilities become capable of affecting ethereal objects and enemies. Objects thrown using Force Blast must be ethereal to do so, but weapons wielded using Telekinetic Fighting are treated as being both corporeal and ethereal from now on.

At 17th level all your abilities can effect creatures and objects from any coterminous planes.

Disrupting Throw(SU): At 15th level, as an immediate action, you may attempt an attack of opportunity against any opponent up to 5ft/class level away. They must have just taken an action which would provoke an attack of opportunity were you adjacent to them, but you need not be threatening the opponent. You may use your Force Blast ability, or any of the abilities you know through Far Trick. This counts towards your attacks of opportunity for the round.

Singularity(SU):As a standard action, you may draw enemies to a designated point. This point may effect any or all creatures (not objects, although undead are susceptible) within 30' of the center point.
To do so, you must use one Hand (the singularity) + one Hand per target (the gravity) and each target may not be more than 50lbs/level. Upon using this ability, you must make a ranged touch attack against the target to 'grab' them with a hand, then the target must succeed on a Fort save or be drawn to to point. You may use more Hands per target to increase the saves and weight limit for this ability at an additional +5 Fort DC per Hand used for the target and +50lbs per Hand used for the target.

If they get drawn to the point, they are held there until they can pass a Fort save with an added difficulty of +2 per additional target caught in the singularity.

Upon collision with another target at the center point, each target takes bludgeoning damage equal to 2d6/10' each target traveled. For example, there are 3 targets. 1 travels 20' 2 travels 10' and 3 travels 30'. Upon collision at the center they each take 6d6 bludgeoning damage.

For each round, on the start of their turn that they begin in the singularity, each target will take 5d6 crushing damage as the force holding them applies pressure. You may invest more hands in the singularity, to increase the damage they take by an additional 5d6/Hand.

Alternatively, you may make the field repel creatures. Doing this requires 1 Hand + 1 Hand/target. You may invest extra Hands per target to increase the save DCs by +2 for each extra Hand on a target as well as increase the distance thrown by the field by 10' per hand.

When targeted by the repulsion singularity, a creature must make a fort save to avoid being repulsed 30'. If they fail they cannot reenter the field until the ability is dropped. Once they have been repelled they must make a reflex save or take 5d6 +5d6/Hand invested in the damage.

Master Of The Far Hand(EX): At 20th level, you have reached the pinnacle of your mental power. Reality becomes an illusion which you can bend like putty, and many of your abilities are enhanced as follows:

All your class abilities are now considered Extraordinary.

Your Disrupting Throw becomes a free action, still taking up an attack of opportunity per use. It may also be used anywhere within your Telekinesis range.

Your flight speed increases to 120ft.

You no longer take range penalties to your far tricks.

You no longer take range penalties to your Telekinetic Fighting.

The Telekinetic Hands gained through class levels and feats is doubled from this point on.

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ACFs

Pure Telekineticist.

Replaces: Martial Skill, Telekinetic Fighting, Martial Weapon Proficiency, and Telekinetic Reach.

Benefit:The number of Hands you have is increased to 1 Hand/Class Level. The range of your telekinesis increases to 20ft/level.


Unarmed Telekineticist

Replaces: Martial Skill, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Medium Armor Proficiency.

Benefit: You may generate weapons of pure force. These deal damage equal to 1d6/Hand force damage. They gain a bonus to hit and to damage equal to 1/2*Charisma Modifier*(Invested Hands + 1) maximum Hands invested in a single weapon are equal to your class levels. These are treated as weapons the Telekineticist is proficient with for all purposes. Their critical range is 20/x2.



Magic Items
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Miniature Boulder:
This item is very useful to a Telekineticist. It has the dimensions of a marble, and weighs much the same.
As a move action (or free action with the quick draw feat) the marble can be activated. After its activation, the marble can be made to weigh up to 500lb, always growing to a foot diameter sphere. Another move action is required to reduce it back down to marble size.

Ok added Repulsion to Singularity. Removed the combo line from Unarmed. Still need to reword what the ACFs lose and gain. Is your Mentalist ready to be inserted? Thoughts on Repulsion?

Veklim
2012-03-06, 06:06 PM
OK, I've done The Traveller and The Beast to go with The Mentalist, lemme know if I'm on the right track or not and I'll make the rest!

TK SAVANT ACF
Whereas the psion and the wilder have learned to hone their minds into weapons capable of manifesting their merest whim, many Telekineticists find they are too specialised to manifest in the truest sense. Some few discover instead how to mimic the effects of certain powers through manipulation of their Hands. These few are known as Telekineticist Savants.

Change the Telekineticist's BAB to average progression (like a cleric). You are not as martially minded as other Telekineticists, but your understanding of your powers stretch to the abstract far more than most.

Warp Reality
Replaces: Medium Armour Proficiency, Martial Skill, Critical Thinking.
At 1st level you start to gain a number of Psi-Like abilities as you progress, determined by which discipline you choose to follow (listed below). Each ability requires a number of hands to be used, equal to the level of the power simulated. Hands used this way are considered used until the beginning of your next turn. Your manifester level is equal to your class level, and any saves run off your Charisma modifier.
1st level. Level 1 power, usable 3+ con modifier times per day.
3rd level. Level 2 power, usable 2+ con modifier times per day.
5th level. Level 3 power, usable 1+ con modifier times per day.
7th level. Level 4 power, usable con modifier times per day.
9th level. Level 5 power, usable con modifier -1 times per day.

Power Overwhelming
Replaces: Far Trick
At 4th level you gain the ability to augment your Warp Reality with additional hands. Each additional hand counts as 2 power points for this purpose. You begin being able to use only 1 additional hand in this way. You may use another additional hand for every 4 levels thereafter (2 extra at 8th, 3 at 12th, etc, to a maximum of 5 additional hands at 20th.)

Master of the Far Hand
Remove this line from the ability:
"You no longer take range penalties to your far tricks."
Add this line to the ability:
You always count as using at least two extra hands to augment your Warp Reality abilities, even if you chose not to spend additional hands to do so (so if you were to augment with 2 extra hands, you would count as having used 4 extra hands instead, if you choose not to augment at all, you still count as having done so with 2 hands.)

Below are listed the discipline power lists, you must select one at 1st level, and may never change this choice. If a power uses your Intelligence for a calculation, replace it with your Charisma. If a power requires a touch attack, you may use a Hand to deliver it at a range of 5ft/class level, as long as you have one free. Each discipline grants a class skill and another ability (much like a Cleric's domain)

The Beast (Psychometabolism)
Add Knowledge (Nature) and Survival to the Telekineticist's list of class skills.

1st level power. Thicken Skin
2nd level power. Animal Affinity
3rd level power. Hustle
4th level power. Metamorphosis
5th level power. Psychofeedback

Claws of The Beast
At 5th level you gain the ability to use your Hands to make claws. As a move action you may use a Hand to gain a natural claw attack with which you are automatically proficient. You may invest additional hands for extra damage to a maximum of 1/4 class levels (so you begin with only one Hand for the claw, but may add a second at Telekineticist level 8). The claw attack deals damage equal to 1D6/Hand + Charisma AND Strength modifier.


The Traveller (Psychoportation)
Add Knowledge (The Planes) to the Telekineticist's list of class skills.

1st level power. Detect Teleportation
2nd level power. Dimension Swap
3rd level power. Astral Caravan
4th level power. Psionic Dimensional Anchor
5th level power. Psionic Teleport

Group Mentality
At 5th level you gain the ability to manifest the power Astral Traveler at will as a move action. This requires the use of one Hand which is used until the end of your turn. You may touch multiple targets with the same move action (1 Hand/target), as long as you have enough Hands to do so.



The Mentalist (Telepathy)
Add Bluff to the Telekineticist's list of class skills.

1st level power. Psionic Charm
2nd level power. Psionic Suggestion
3rd level power. Hostile Empathic Transfer
4th level power. Psionic Dominate
5th level power. Mind Probe

Mind's Eye
Your Mind's eye ability gains the following enhancement:
You may improve your Mind's Eye ability with the use of an additional hand. You gain the effects of the Read Thoughts power with 2 differences:
The area becomes that of your Mind's Eye ability.
Creatures with an intelligence of 26 or higher (and at least 10 points higher than your own intelligence score) no longer stun you if they are read. Instead, you simply cannot comprehend the thoughts you read and therefore gain no effect for the purposes of these creatures.

Kobold-Bard
2012-03-06, 07:18 PM
Does the Mentalist get Telepathy? Because I don't see it.

DerTollUdo
2012-03-06, 10:53 PM
I will say this, from the skim if your acf, it looks solid. However I have no real intered in them so wont judge them until you are totally done with them lol.

But you still havent mentioned your thoughts on repulsion.

Veklim
2012-03-07, 06:30 AM
Does the Mentalist get Telepathy? Because I don't see it.Not yet, no. I have rectified this with a feat though (because TKs need feats to have options, since very few standard feats help them much!).

Enhanced Discipline
Requirements: Level 1 Telekineticist with the TK Savant ACF
Benefits: You gain a +1 bonus to your psi-like abilities' save DCs, and their durations improve by 50%. You also gain an additional benefit depending upon which discipline you follow, as listed below:
The Beast: You gain scent
The Mentalist: You gain telepathy (limited to your TK range)
The Traveller: You gain fast movement (+10ft to all base speeds)
You must be psionically focused to gain these effects.
Special: This feat may only be taken at first level.


But you still havent mentioned your thoughts on repulsion.Looks good to me, the DC increase at the end of the first paragraph in Singularity should be +2 not +5 though, imo at least. +5/hand as a 19th level ability makes it a SoS with no hope of saving!
Singularity now has 2 functions, and they seem pretty balanced with each other, certainly not OP for a 19th level ability and it all makes sense. I don't see much of anything which needs tweaking with it just now, but if anything makes itself known I'll prod you :smallwink:

DerTollUdo
2012-03-07, 10:07 AM
Well good then. As for the change to +2 I had made that...guess I copy pastaed the wrong post lol. I'll repost with it in there, add in your ACF, and put a feat section so he can have it all in the first post.

Magikeeper
2012-03-07, 04:38 PM
So, can a focused shield be created over a creature, like the energy wall power can? Either way the ability needs to state if you can/can't.

Also, a pure TK can deal 90d6 points of damage with that wall at level 10 - and that is assuming a +0 con mod (1 to maintain, 1 to change to d6/level, 8 additional d6/level). A regular TK with a con mod of +6 can do the same, although it would take all of their hands to do it.

Perhaps each extra hand spent to increase the damage could add +1d6 damage and +2 to the bullrush check. That promotes creating more walls instead of a single pseudo sphere of annihilation. Maybe make up the lost damage with some status effects.

Also, if you can form the wall around creatures you could create an infinite ping-pong situation where a creature is smacked around by two walls for infinite damage.

So maybe:

Focused Shield(SU):At 9th level you may create a barrier with your Hands as a move action. Any unattended objects or projectiles (including spells which require an attack roll) are instantly stopped and cannot pass through. If a creature attempts to pass through, it suffers an immediate bullrush attack upon contact with the barrier, as if the barrier were a gargantuan creature (+12 size bonus) with a Strength score equal to your Charisma score. If the barrier wins the opposed check, the creature is pushed out of the wall in the direction it attempted to enter from. The wall cannot push the creature farther than 5ft from its edges (as the wall does not move with the creature). If the creature wins, it forces it's way through the barrier, causing it to disperse. You may form the barrier over a creature, in which case it is effected as though it had tried to pass though the wall (The creature is pushed towards the closest edge of the wall, or whatever direction is not facing you in case of a tie). If the creature is pushed/thrown into the wall, use the bullrush check of the creature/force that pushed them into the wall instead of the creature's if it is higher. You cannot form multiple barriers in the same square.

Any creature that attempts to pass through the barrier takes force damage equal to 1D6 +1/ class level. The barrier is a 10ft x 10ft pane, positioned as you please within Telekinesis range. You may create and maintain multiple barriers at once, and any number of barriers may be set as part of the same move action so long as you have enough hands free to create them. Each barrier (including the first) requires a hand to create and maintain.

You may augment this ability by investing additional hands, as described below:

You may increase the force with which the wall pushes creatures away. Each additional hand invested in this way increases the damage by 1d6 and adds an additional +2 bonus to its bullrush check. If this more powerful wall succeeds on a bullrush check by 10 or more the creature is knocked prone, and if it succeeds by 20 or more the creature is stunned for 1 round unless it makes a fort save (DC 10 + 1/2 class level + your charisma modifier).

You may invest 1 additional Hand to shape the Shield. All parts must be touching, but the barrier can otherwise take any shape you desire.

You may invest additional Hands to increase the size of the shield at a rate of 5'x5' per Hand. Thus with 1 extra Hand it is a 15'x15' pane, with 2 it becomes 20'x20' and so on.

DerTollUdo
2012-03-07, 04:59 PM
This is in need of PEACH. Just skip past the old comments.


Special thanks to VEKLIM and DerTollUdo for editing. It was a lot messier before.
Really, first time I got an editor, and the class is better for it...

So, I have tried to make blasters. They have all been kinda busy, and introduce too many new concepts. So going to try a different tact, something in line with an invoker.

The Telekineticist. A rather long name but oh well.

When the psionic talent begins to surface, they show odd signs. Some of these show it through the sudden movement of objects. Flying plates and tables mark a developing psion, yet some never grow out of it. These psions grow in power, standing up to psions in their own right as masters of psionic power.




Characteristics: The Telekineticist relies on its mind to create force affects. This can range from throwing a mass at a foe, throwing a foe, fighting with a weapon held with his mind, even to full power flight!

Alignment: The Telekineticist can be of any alignment. The power of the mind bares no alignment above others.

Religion: The Telekineticist favors gods of battle and psionics.

Races: Humans are drawn to this class like any other. Small races also enjoy this class, as it lets them use brains in place of brawn. Any mining race tends to have many Telekineticists since they aid in the mining process. All psionic races tend to favor this class like any other psionic class.

Other Classes: Martial classes tend to dislike The Telekineticist, as they seem too magical to be true martial. Magical classes enjoy The Telekineticist, as they seem to merely be imitating their own power.

Role: Can take on the role of a secondary tank, or perhaps stealth. But this class shines at battle field control. With numerous abilities for punishing foes unwilling to move as he wishes, and the ability to physically move foes into a formation of his choice, he can add some useful utility outside of combat while performing numerous tricks at a distance.

Game Rule Information:
Abilities:Charisma is very important, as it is the strength of The Telekineticist. Wisdom allows The Telekineticist to maintain effects longer, and constitution helps The Telekineticist stay alive while increasing maximum Hands.

Alignment: Any

Hit Die: d8

The Telekineticist
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

1st|+1|+0|+0|+2| Telekinetic Hands, Mental Strength, Force Blast, Wild Talent

2nd|+2|+0|+0|+3| Telekinetic Fighting: Least

3rd|+3|+1|+1|+3|Telekinetic Reach

4th|+4|+1|+1|+4| Far Trick

5th|+5|+1|+1|+4| Martial Skill, Mind's Eye

6th|+6/+1|+2|+2|+5| Telekinetic Fighting: Lesser, Far Trick

7th|+7/+2|+2|+2|+5| Telekinetic Flight

8th|+8/+3|+2|+2|+6| Far Trick

9th|+9/+4|+3|+3|+6| Martial Skill, Focused Shield

10th|+10/+5|+3|+3|+7| Telekinetic Flight: Improved, Mind's Eye, Far Trick

11th|+11/+6/+1|+3|+3|+7| Telekinetic Fighting: Improved, Critical Thinking

12th|+12/+7/+2|+4|+4|+8| Ghostly Hand

13th|+13/+8/+3|+4|+4|+8| Telekinetic Flight: Greater

14th|+14/+9/+4|+4|+4|+9| Martial Skill

15th|+15/+10/+5|+5|+5|+9| Disrupting Throw, Mind's Eye

16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+5|+5|+10| Telekinetic Fighting: Greater

17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+5|+5|+10| Ghostly Hand

18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+6|+6|+11| Critical Thinking

19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+6|+6|+11| Martial Skill, Singularity

20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+6|+6|+12| Master Of The Far Hand, Mind's Eye
[/table]

Class Skills

The Telekineticist's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are; Auto Hypnosis(Con), Balance(Dex), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Escape artist(Dex), Hide(Dex), Knowledge (Psionics)(Int), Open Lock(Dex), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Slight of hand(Dex), Spot(Wis), Tumble(Dex), Use Psionic Device(Cha), Use Rope(Dex), and Psicraft (Int).

Skill Points at First Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

Proficiencies: A Telekineticist is proficient with all Simple weapons and one martial melee weapon of their choice. They are also proficient with light and medium armor, and all shields.

Telekinetic Hands(SU): The Telekineticist has limited capability with his power. This capability is known as Telekinetic Hands, or just Hands. The Telekineticist has a number of Hands equal to 1 + 1/3 class levels + your Constitution modifier. These Hands have a range equal to 10ft/ class level.

If an ability that uses Hands requires a save, it has a DC of 10 + 1/2 class levels + charisma modifier. If they require a physical ability score (such as an opposed strength checks for a trip attempt), use the Charisma modifier instead. To use his Hands he must be psionically focused, although he does not expend his focus by doing so.

Any hand which is used for a non-sustained ability is considered used until the start of your next turn, and any hand used for a sustained ability is considered used until the ability is released.

Whenever you take an action with your hands, you may opt to instead make it a full round action. If you do so, you may use any other hand ability at the same time that has an equal or shorter action time at a cumulative -2 penalty for all rolls or saving throws involved in the actions per extra action taken.

For instance, Jimmy is a 12th level Telekineticist with 7 Hands, he chooses to use 3 of those hands to pick up weapons to aid in flanking with his friends (a standard action) and uses another 3 Hands to bullrush a closing pack of enemies (another standard action). He would have to make all attack and opposed rolls for each of these actions at an additional -2, because his attention is split between 2 different abilities. If he also wished to use his last hand to make a focused shield in this time, the penalties for multiple actions would increase to -4 to all rolls.

Mental Strength(SU): The Telekineticist can move an object with his mind, or perform some act of manual dexterity at any distance within the range of his Hands as a standard action.

He may move up to 50lb/level at a rate of 30' per action, objects up to 100lb/level at a rate of 20' per action, and objects up to 150lb/level at a rate of 10' per action. You may add additional Hands to increase the speed by 10' per Hand.

These movements are not limited in direction, but do have a limited duration. The Telekineticist can maintain pressure for up to wisdom modifier rounds, after that the object drops to the ground and the Telekineticist is fatigued for 1d4 rounds. You may not initiate this ability if you are fatigued. If you cease pressure, and do not use any ability requiring Telekinetic Hands for a full round, the duration you may keep this up is reset.

Creatures may be moved in this way, but they get a will save to negate the effects each round. Any movement from this ability provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. The Telekineticist may not use this ability on himself.

Objects weighing 25lb + 25lb/3 levels may be maintained without limit with one Hand. You may invest more Hands to sustain 25lbs/level per invested Hand without limit.

The Telekineticist can also perform a feat of manual dexterity anywhere within the maximum range of his powers. This manipulation is limited by the number of hands used. If you wish to do something which would require two physical hands to achieve (like tie a knot in some rope), then you must use at least 2 hands. No additional effect is had by using more Hands than necessary for any given action.

Force Blast(SU):As a standard action, the Telekineticist can launch a number of objects within the range of his Hands. Each object may weigh no more than 25lb/level, and requires the use of a single Hand/object. The object(s) travel up to 10ft/level and this movement may take it outside of the Hands range.

The Telekineticist makes a single standard ranged attack (in the case of multiple targets, this result is applied to each target separately), with a -2 penalty for each object thrown beyond the first. Each object deals bludgeoning or piercing damage (DM's choice) depending on it's weight up to 1d6/25lb. Regardless of the item launched, you do not take a non-proficiency penalty for this attack. Weapons launched with this power deal bludgeoning damage according to their weight unless you are proficient with them, at which point you may deal normal weapon damage (and damage type) instead. The object or weapon deals an additional +1d6 damage for each full 10ft of movement it had remaining when it hits. The critical threat of weapons used this way is 20/x2, only one roll need be made to confirm all attacks and criticals made with a single use of Force Blast. Any enchantments or abilities the weapon/s may have are applied individually. The keen enchantment, or any similar ability involving critical threat ranges does not apply. A flaming burst weapon would always consider it's threat range as 20/x2.

You may also focus this ability in an attempt to rip the target apart from the inside. As a standard action, you may attack one target with 1 blast per Hand you wish to use, or you may split up the targets per Hand you use.

The Telekineticist makes a single standard ranged touch attack (in the case of multiple targets, this result is applied to each target separately, with a -2 penalty for each target after the first). This attack deals 1D4/class level force damage and the target must succeed on a fortitude save or be nauseated for 1D4 rounds. This ability only functions within the range of your Hands. This ability effects objects.

You may not launch creatures with this ability.

Wild Talent: You gain the feat Wild Talent as a bonus feat.

Telekinetic Fighting(SU):

Least:
At 2nd level The Telekineticist may use Hands to wield weapons he is proficient with and fight within the range of his Hands. Any weapon wielded in this fashion may be moved up to 30ft in a round as a free action.

As a standard action, you may make a single melee attack with one such weapon, using Charisma instead of Strength for the to hit and damage rolls. You only threaten squares within your physical reach, if the weapon is beyond this range it does not threaten on it's own. A one-handed or smaller weapon requires one Hand and a two-handed weapon requires two Hands to use. Any weapon(s) held by your Hands may have additional Hands added to it, each increasing the damage by 1/2 charisma modifier.

The Telekineticist suffers -1 to hit for every 10ft increment between the weapon and The Telekineticist, and a -1 to damage for every 20ft increment between the weapon and The Telekineticist, to a maximum of the range of his Hands. He may maintain this effect for a number of rounds equal to his constitution score per encounter.

Lesser:
At 6th level you may make a full attack with the weapon(s) you are wielding with Telekinetic Fighting. You may not make more attacks than you could without your Telekinetic Hands, but you may spread your iterative attacks between weapons at no penalty, although the range penalty still applies. You may now hold a light or heavy shield with one Hand or a tower shield in two Hands. Such a shield may occupy any square including your own or those of your allies (but not an enemy's) and confers on anyone in that square the shield's AC bonus as a shield bonus to their own AC.

Improved:
As a standard action you may attack once with each weapon wielded by your Telekinetic Fighting. This is done with a single attack roll at your highest attack bonus, but takes a penalty to hit equal to the number of weapons being wielded -1.
You may wield a weapon of a larger size category than you normally could for your size. For every size category larger than normal, the weapon requires an additional Hand to wield, these Hands do not add extra damage, but you may add further Hands to do so.

The duration you may maintain this effect is removed.

Greater:
At 16th level you no longer take the distance penalties for the distance between you and your weapon, but you are still limited to the range of your Hands. Also, as a fullround action, you may attack with each weapon you hold with Hands up to the number of attacks granted from you BAB for each weapon plus any extra attacks granted from feats or weapon enchantments.

Telekinetic Reach(SU): At third level, any weapon you are wielding with your Telekinetic Fighting threatens adjacent squares as normal for a weapon of it's type. If the weapon has the reach quality then calculate accordingly.

Far Trick(SU):Starting at 4th lvl when your powers start to mature, you gain the ability to make specific types of attacks within the range of your Hands. These work as normal except Charisma is used instead of any physical score, and your size bonus (or penalty) does not apply to these checks.

Each ability initially receives a penalty of -1/10ft away from the target you are. Each ability requires one hand to activate.

At 4th level you may attempt to break down a door or bullrush an opponent.

At 6th level you may attempt disarm attempts against foes. The penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/20ft.

At 8th level you may attempt trip attempts against foes. The penalty for disarming is reduced to -1/20ft, and the penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/40ft.

At 10th level you may attempt to grapple foes. The penalty for tripping is reduced to -1/20ft, the penalty for disarming is reduced to -1/40ft, and the penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/80ft.

Minds eye(SU): At 5th level, as a full round action you may gain blindsight out to half the range of your Hands until the end of your next turn. You must be psionically focused to do this.

At 10th level this increases to the full range of your Hands.

At 15th level you may maintain this ability indefinitely with one hand.

At 20th level this ability no longer requires a Hand to maintain and is always active (even when you are not psionically focused).

Martial Skill (EX): You may not be a fighter, but you understand weapons of war.

At 5th level you gain two additional martial weapon proficiencies of your choice.

At 9th level you gain two more additional martial weapon proficiencies of your choice.

At 14th level you gain one additional martial weapon proficiency and one additional exotic weapon proficiency of your choice.

At 19th level you gain two additional exotic weapon proficiencies of your choice.

Telekinetic Flight(SU): You have finally mastered moving yourself using your Hands. One Hand is required to initiate and sustain flight. If you reach the duration of the ability, you immediately descend directly downwards at a rate equal to the fly speed (taking falling damage if you fail to reach solid ground in this distance) and become fatigued for 1d4 rounds. You may not initiate this ability if you are fatigued If you cease flying, and do not use any ability requiring Telekinetic Hands for a full round, the duration you may keep this up is reset.

At 7th level, you may fly at a speed of 30ft with perfect maneuverability for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom modifier. You may keep this flight up indefinitely by using three hands.

At 11th level, your fly speed increases to 40ft and you may stay aloft for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom score. You only need two to keep this up indefinitely.

At 13th level, your fly speed increases to 60ft and may be sustained indefinitely with only one Hand.

Focused Shield(SU):At 9th level you may create a barrier with your Hands as a move action. Any unattended objects or projectiles (including spells which require an attack roll) are instantly stopped and cannot pass through. If a creature attempts to pass through, it suffers an immediate bullrush attack upon contact with the barrier, as if the barrier were a gargantuan creature (+12 size bonus) with a Strength score equal to your Charisma score. If the barrier wins the opposed check, the creature is pushed out of the wall in the direction it attempted to enter from. The wall cannot push the creature farther than 5ft from its edges (as the wall does not move with the creature). If the creature wins, it forces it's way through the barrier, causing it to disperse. You may form the barrier over a creature, in which case it is effected as though it had tried to pass though the wall (The creature is pushed towards the closest edge of the wall, or whatever direction is not facing you in case of a tie). If the creature is pushed/thrown into the wall, use the bullrush check of the creature/force that pushed them into the wall instead of the creature's if it is higher. You cannot form multiple barriers in the same square.

Any creature that attempts to pass through the barrier takes force damage equal to 1D6 +1/ class level. The barrier is a 10ft x 10ft pane, positioned as you please within Telekinesis range. You may create and maintain multiple barriers at once, and any number of barriers may be set as part of the same move action so long as you have enough hands free to create them. Each barrier (including the first) requires a hand to create and maintain.

You may augment this ability by investing additional hands, as described below:

You may increase the force with which the wall pushes creatures away. Each additional hand invested in this way increases the damage by 1d6 and adds an additional +2 bonus to its bullrush check. If this more powerful wall succeeds on a bullrush check by 10 or more the creature is knocked prone, and if it succeeds by 20 or more the creature is stunned for 1 round unless it makes a fort save (DC 10 + 1/2 class level + your charisma modifier).

You may invest 1 additional Hand to shape the Shield. All parts must be touching, but the barrier can otherwise take any shape you desire.

You may invest additional Hands to increase the size of the shield at a rate of 5'x5' per Hand. Thus with 1 extra Hand it is a 15'x15' pane, with 2 it becomes 20'x20' and so on.

Critical Thinking(EX): Starting at 11th level, you have learned how to wield a weapon in the most dangerous fashion.

At level 11 weapons with which you are proficient used in Force Blast get their normal critical threat range.

At level 18 all objects wielded with Telekinetic Hands get their normal threat range and are treated as though you had Improved Critical. You do not actually gain the feat, and it does not count for prerequisites. This ability stacks in the same way as the feat.

Ghostly Hand(SU): At 12th level, your abilities become capable of affecting ethereal objects and enemies. Objects thrown using Force Blast must be ethereal to do so, but weapons wielded using Telekinetic Fighting are treated as being both corporeal and ethereal from now on.

At 17th level all your abilities can effect creatures and objects from any coterminous planes.

Disrupting Throw(SU): At 15th level, as an immediate action, you may attempt an attack of opportunity against any opponent up to 5ft/class level away. They must have just taken an action which would provoke an attack of opportunity were you adjacent to them, but you need not be threatening the opponent. You may use your Force Blast ability, or any of the abilities you know through Far Trick. This counts towards your attacks of opportunity for the round.

Singularity(SU):As a standard action, you may draw enemies to a designated point. This point may effect any or all creatures (not objects, although undead are susceptible) within 30' of the center point.
To do so, you must use one Hand (the singularity) + one Hand per target (the gravity) and each target may not be more than 50lbs/level. Upon using this ability, you must make a ranged touch attack against the target to 'grab' them with a hand, then the target must succeed on a Fort save or be drawn to to point. You may use more Hands per target to increase the saves and weight limit for this ability at an additional +2 Fort DC per Hand used for the target and +50lbs/level per Hand used for the target.

If they get drawn to the point, they are held there until they can pass a Fort save with an added difficulty of +2 per additional target caught in the singularity.

Upon collision with another target at the center point, each target takes bludgeoning damage equal to 2d6/10' each target traveled. For example, there are 3 targets. 1 travels 20' 2 travels 10' and 3 travels 30'. Upon collision at the center they each take 6d6 bludgeoning damage.

For each round, on the start of their turn that they begin in the singularity, each target will take 5d6 crushing damage as the force holding them applies pressure. You may invest more hands in the singularity, to increase the damage they take by an addition 5d6/Hand.

Alternatively, you may make the field repel creatures. Doing this requires 1 Hand + 1 Hand/target. You may invest extra Hands per target to increase the save DCs by +2 for each extra Hand on a target as well as increase the distance thrown by the field by 10' per hand.

When targeted by the repulsion singularity, a creature must make a fort save to avoid being repulsed 30'. If they fail they cannot reenter the field until the ability is dropped. Once they have been repelled they must make a reflex save or take 5d6 +5d6/Hand invested in the damage.

Master Of The Far Hand(EX): At 20th level, you have reached the pinnacle of your mental power. Reality becomes an illusion which you can bend like putty, and many of your abilities are enhanced as follows:

All your class abilities are now considered Extraordinary.

Your Disrupting Throw becomes a free action, still taking up an attack of opportunity per use. It may also be used anywhere within your Telekinesis range.

Your flight speed increases to 120ft.

You no longer take range penalties to your far tricks.

You no longer take range penalties to your Telekinetic Fighting.

The Telekinetic Hands gained through class levels and feats is doubled from this point on.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

ACFs

Pure Telekineticist.

Replaces: Martial Skill, Telekinetic Fighting, Martial Weapon Proficiency, and Telekinetic Reach.

Benefit:The number of Hands you have is increased to 1 Hand/Class Level. The range of your telekinesis increases to 20ft/level.


Unarmed Telekineticist

Replaces: Martial Skill, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Medium Armor Proficiency.

Benefit: You may generate weapons of pure force. These deal damage equal to 1d6/Hand force damage. They gain a bonus to hit and to damage equal to 1/2*Charisma Modifier*(Invested Hands + 1) maximum Hands invested in a single weapon are equal to your class levels. These are treated as weapons the Telekineticist is proficient with for all purposes. Their critical range is 20/x2.

These weapons may take the shape/color of whatever you chose, but this has no mechanical effect.




TK SAVANT ACF
Whereas the psion and the wilder have learned to hone their minds into weapons capable of manifesting their merest whim, many Telekineticists find they are too specialised to manifest in the truest sense. Some few discover instead how to mimic the effects of certain powers through manipulation of their Hands. These few are known as Telekineticist Savants.

Change the Telekineticist's BAB to average progression (like a cleric). You are not as martially minded as other Telekineticists, but your understanding of your powers stretch to the abstract far more than most.

Warp Reality
Replaces: Medium Armour Proficiency, Martial Skill, Critical Thinking.
At 1st level you start to gain a number of Psi-Like abilities as you progress, determined by which discipline you choose to follow (listed below). Each ability requires a number of hands to be used, equal to the level of the power simulated. Hands used this way are considered used until the beginning of your next turn. Your manifester level is equal to your class level, and any saves run off your Charisma modifier.
1st level. Level 1 power, usable 3+ con modifier times per day.
3rd level. Level 2 power, usable 2+ con modifier times per day.
5th level. Level 3 power, usable 1+ con modifier times per day.
7th level. Level 4 power, usable con modifier times per day.
9th level. Level 5 power, usable con modifier -1 times per day.

Power Overwhelming
Replaces: Far Trick
At 4th level you gain the ability to augment your Warp Reality with additional hands. Each additional hand counts as 2 power points for this purpose. You begin being able to use only 1 additional hand in this way. You may use another additional hand for every 4 levels thereafter (2 extra at 8th, 3 at 12th, etc, to a maximum of 5 additional hands at 20th.)

Master of the Far Hand
Remove this line from the ability:
"You no longer take range penalties to your far tricks."
Add this line to the ability:
You always count as using at least two extra hands to augment your Warp Reality abilities, even if you chose not to spend additional hands to do so (so if you were to augment with 2 extra hands, you would count as having used 4 extra hands instead, if you choose not to augment at all, you still count as having done so with 2 hands.)

Below are listed the discipline power lists, you must select one at 1st level, and may never change this choice. If a power uses your Intelligence for a calculation, replace it with your Charisma. If a power requires a touch attack, you may use a Hand to deliver it at a range of 5ft/class level, as long as you have one free. Each discipline grants a class skill and another ability (much like a Cleric's domain)

The Beast (Psychometabolism)
Add Knowledge (Nature) and Survival to the Telekineticist's list of class skills.

1st level power. Thicken Skin
2nd level power. Animal Affinity
3rd level power. Hustle
4th level power. Metamorphosis
5th level power. Psychofeedback

Claws of The Beast
At 5th level you gain the ability to use your Hands to make claws. As a move action you may use a Hand to gain a natural claw attack with which you are automatically proficient. You may invest additional hands for extra damage to a maximum of 1/4 class levels (so you begin with only one Hand for the claw, but may add a second at Telekineticist level 8). The claw attack deals damage equal to 1D6/Hand + Charisma AND Strength modifier.


The Traveller (Psychoportation)
Add Knowledge (The Planes) to the Telekineticist's list of class skills.

1st level power. Detect Teleportation
2nd level power. Dimension Swap
3rd level power. Astral Caravan
4th level power. Psionic Dimensional Anchor
5th level power. Psionic Teleport

Group Mentality
At 5th level you gain the ability to manifest the power Astral Traveler at will as a move action. This requires the use of one Hand which is used until the end of your turn. You may touch multiple targets with the same move action (1 Hand/target), as long as you have enough Hands to do so.



The Mentalist (Telepathy)
Add Bluff to the Telekineticist's list of class skills.

1st level power. Psionic Charm
2nd level power. Psionic Suggestion
3rd level power. Hostile Empathic Transfer
4th level power. Psionic Dominate
5th level power. Mind Probe

Mind's Eye
Your Mind's eye ability gains the following enhancement:
You may improve your Mind's Eye ability with the use of an additional hand. You gain the effects of the Read Thoughts power with 2 differences:
The area becomes that of your Mind's Eye ability.
Creatures with an intelligence of 26 or higher (and at least 10 points higher than your own intelligence score) no longer stun you if they are read. Instead, you simply cannot comprehend the thoughts you read and therefore gain no effect for the purposes of these creatures.

Magic Items
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Miniature Boulder:
This item is very useful to a Telekineticist. It has the dimensions of a marble, and weighs much the same.
As a move action (or free action with the quick draw feat) the marble can be activated. After its activation, the marble can be made to weigh up to 500lb, always growing to a foot diameter sphere. Another move action is required to reduce it back down to marble size.

Ok, as stands current version of class...then Magikeeper found time to post, finally :P, and so he points out a super flaw...and I adopt his version of focused shield. Any objections? Also added to unarmed saying you can fluff your lightsabers however you please.

Turalisj
2012-03-07, 06:25 PM
Hey, this class looks interesting!

What's the current balance look for it? And would it be possible to use it for Pathfinder?

bobthe6th
2012-03-07, 09:20 PM
DerTrollUdo seems to be building a charicter with it, but I have yet to really play test the thing. (need to find a good way to do that for all my homebrew...)

PF... I don't know, but I think PF tries to make all classes T3? I think this class is around there, maybe T2 at level 20(combat reflexes, throw... or just shields...)

Re'ozul
2012-03-08, 02:57 AM
I wouldn't put it into Tier 2. The tier system is based on versatility and tier1/2 are basically world/game breakers. The only thing i see in this class that could become such to an extent is force blast due to potentially ridiculous damage, everything else seems okay.
Mind you it'd still be a very powerful Tier 3. When compared to everything else in Tier 3 its probably close to taking over as alpha of the pack.

The other ACFs seem pretty good.
The Beast seems a bit out of place since the Telekineticist is mostly a ranged character, but it can work. Metamorphosis is awesome, especially if you can get more hands by changing into a high-con creature.
Traveller fits very well.

On the matter of my suggestion for Mental Strenght, I still like my version best (I know, what a shock). I'll post it here slightly modified.


Each hand may move a mass of 50lb/lvl at a speed of 30' per round. For every increase of the weight that is to be moved, the maximum speed is reduced accordingly. Any resulting speed of less than 5'/rd means the object cannot be moved.
Example: Thomas, the third level Telekineticist has access to 4 hands and attempts to lift and transport the corpse of a large hill giant that his party has just slain. The hill giant weighs 600lb. One of Thomas' hands has a base capacity of 150lb at 30' at this point. this would allow him to move the hill giant at a speed of 5'/rd as the weight to move is 4 times the hand's base capability and as such he can only move it at quarter speed. In the same way, using 2 hands would allow him to pick up speed to 15'/rd and using all four would allow him to transport the giant at 30'/rd.
Special: Even if the mass is less than the base capacity of the assigned hands, movement may never exceed the Telekineticists base movemenet speed.
This movement is limited to a duration equal to the Telekineticist's wisdom modifier in rounds. After this time has passed, the hand's buckle under the pressure and the psychic backlash leaves the Telekineticist fatigued for 1d4 rounds. Once he is no longer fatigued, he may resume the movement. He may not use this ability if he is fatigued or exhausted.
If the mass does not exceed 25lb/lvl times the number of hands invested, the movement may be kept up indefinitely and the Telekineticist is not fatigued once he stops it.

Veklim
2012-03-08, 05:22 AM
This is definitely and firmly in the Tier 3 camp, it has a diverse set of abilities, heavy damage potential and a fair few choices, but it certainly lacks the awesome power/versatility of a tier 2 class. It is rather powerful for tier 3, but not excessively so as far as I can see. With regards to PF, what are the main differences compared to 3.5? This may well be fine for PF as long as too much hasn't changed, the TK stuff is pretty stand-alone for mechanically, so the chances of accidental oversight leading to horrific shenanigans shouldn't be too likely at all.

The Mental Strength debate is not going away is it?! I still prefer my option of keeping the 25ft (light load, sustainable) and 50ft (heavy load, limited) mechanic in place, and allowing 20ft movement at double heavy load, allowing for 10ft dragging at 5 times heavy load. Makes it all so much simpler than having to divide awkward numbers, round off to nearest 5ft increments and worrying about hasty calculations being wrong! This way it's all simple multiplication, adding hands just affects the total mass you can move so all you need do is add another to increase speed/load capability!

As far as the ACFs go, I made The Mentalist because of something Kobald-Bard said, and I really liked it so wanted to do more. The Traveller is perhaps my favourite, because it gives the TK a useful niche which sits well within the base theme of the class. The Beast is a little different, but then again I like the idea of giving a nature-themed ACF to these guys. They hold no alliegence to civilisation, magic or a god, there's no good reason to disallow a shiftery type nature bunny, and the addition of claw attacks means a whole new bunch of strategies could emerge. Playing any one of these ACFs should mean playing a whole new type of TK character, and that was my aim. I have 2 more to post tonight, keep eyes open!

Oh, DerTollUdo dude...still not got a feat section up on the latest class posting. I realise you ended up posting a whole ability fix so figured you'd probably just forgotten!

Re'ozul
2012-03-08, 10:53 AM
Your mental strenght version is good as well.

Going with pure telekineticist it would allow 100,000lb / 10' drag at level 20.
mine would allow 120,000 / 5' at level 20. Overall yours is more streamlined and probably better for application.
Either version is absolutely okay with me as I just want to avoid the problem of having a too low ceiling on carrying capacity.

And now for a thought experiment.
You have two identical telekineticist.
Both attempt to move the other away from them/towards them ... what happens. Alternately one tries to move the other closer, the other tries to push him away...

DerTollUdo
2012-03-08, 01:04 PM
Class:

The version in progress is here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12861479&postcount=146) extras can be found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12861520&postcount=147).

Special thanks to VEKLIM and DerTollUdo for editing and content creation. It was a lot messier and barren before.

The Telekineticist.

When a psion begins manifesting their power for the first time, they often discover their powers in telekinesis. The sudden movement of objects, flying crockery, stacking chairs and juggling balls are all commonplace events when a young psion is learning. Most grow out of this phase, finding other, more dramatic, specific or subtle uses for their talents. However, a few never move past the telekinetic, finding that the more they practice, the more control and precision they gain on the world around them. Over time their mastery of movement becomes legendary, and many a story has been told of various members of this class. These rare individuals are known as The Telekineticists.

Characteristics: The Telekineticist relies on its mind to use his powers. This can range from throwing a mass at a foe, throwing a foe, fighting with a weapon held with his mind, even to full power flight!

Alignment: The power of The Telekineticist favors no alignment above others.

Religion: The Telekineticist favors gods of battle and psionics.

Races: Humans are drawn to this class like any other. Small races enjoy this class, as it lets them use brains instead of brawn. Any mining race tends to have many Telekineticists since they aid in the mining process. All psionic races tend to favor this class.

Other Classes: Martial classes tend to dislike The Telekineticist, as they seem too magical to be a true martial. Magical classes enjoy The Telekineticist, as they seem to merely be imitating their own power.

Role: Can take on the role of utility or perhaps stealth. But this class shines as a battle field controller. With numerous abilities for punishing foes unwilling to move as he wishes, and the ability to physically move foes into a formation of his choice, he can add some useful utility outside of combat while performing numerous tasks at a distance.

Game Rule Information:
Abilities:Charisma is the strength of The Telekineticist. Constitution helps them stay alive while increasing maximum Hands. Wisdom allows them to maintain effects longer.

Alignment: Any

Hit Die: d6

The Telekineticist
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

1st|+1|+0|+0|+2| Telekinetic Hands, Mental Strength, Force Burst, Force Fling, Wild Talent

2nd|+2|+0|+0|+3| Telekinetic Fighting: Least

3rd|+3|+1|+1|+3|Telekinetic Reach, Trapfinding

4th|+4|+1|+1|+4| Far Trick

5th|+5|+1|+1|+4| Martial Skill, Mind's Eye

6th|+6/+1|+2|+2|+5| Telekinetic Fighting: Lesser, Far Trick

7th|+7/+2|+2|+2|+5| Telekinetic Flight

8th|+8/+3|+2|+2|+6| Far Trick

9th|+9/+4|+3|+3|+6| Martial Skill, Focused Shield

10th|+10/+5|+3|+3|+7| Telekinetic Flight: Improved, Mind's Eye, Far Trick

11th|+11/+6/+1|+3|+3|+7| Telekinetic Fighting: Improved, Critical Thinking

12th|+12/+7/+2|+4|+4|+8| Ghostly Hands

13th|+13/+8/+3|+4|+4|+8| Telekinetic Flight: Greater, Lockdown

14th|+14/+9/+4|+4|+4|+9| Martial Skill

15th|+15/+10/+5|+5|+5|+9| Disrupting Throw, Mind's Eye

16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+5|+5|+10| Telekinetic Fighting: Greater, Lockdown

17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+5|+5|+10| Ghostly Hands

18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+6|+6|+11| Critical Thinking

19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+6|+6|+11| Martial Skill, Singularity

20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+6|+6|+12| Master Of The Far Hand, Mind's Eye
[/table]

Class Skills

The Telekineticist's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are; Auto Hypnosis(Con), Balance(Dex), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Escape artist(Dex), Hide(Dex), Knowledge (Psionics)(Int), Open Lock(Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Search (Int), Slight of hand(Dex), Spot(Wis), Use Psionic Device(Cha), Use Rope(Dex), and Psicraft (Int).

Skill Points at First Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

Proficiencies: A Telekineticist is proficient with all Simple weapons and one martial melee weapon of their choice. They are also proficient with light and medium armor, and all shields.

Telekinetic Hands(SU): As he walks through the land, he raises not his own hands. For as he wills it, so it shall move. With but a thought, he sends enemies into chaos and allies into order. All with the power of his Telekinetic Hands.

The Telekineticist has limited capability with his power. This capability is known as Telekinetic Hands, or just Hands. These Hands are useable at will. These Hands can be used for abilities in this class, or they can be used as though they were just normal hands. In either case, they are still subject to the limits given in this class.

The Telekineticist has a number of Hands equal to 1 + 1/3 class levels + your Constitution modifier. These Hands have a range equal to 10ft/ class level and may only be used if you have line of sight. These Hands are not Force effects. The only class ability which is a Force effect is Force Burst. Things normally immune to Telekinesis are not immune to the abilities of this class.

Upon using any of the abilities of this class that require Hands, every Telekineticist has a display. This display is unique to every Telekineticist. The display can be just about anything visual. Some Examples are: glowing eyes, vibrating waves of energy from yourself, visual Hands, or anything else the player and DM agree upon. These can be identified as psionic displays with an appropriate Knowledge: Psionics check (DC up to DM)

The Hand dependent abilities require you to be conscious to maintain. Therefore, if the Telekineticist falls unconscious all their Hand dependent abilities end.

If an ability that uses Hands requires a save, it has a DC of 10 + 1/2 class levels + charisma modifier. If when using your Hands you require a physical ability score (such as opposed strength checks for trip attempts, or opposed strength checks for pushing something heavy), use the Charisma modifier instead. You may invest additional Hands in any such check to gain a +2/Hand bonus to the roll. You may invest as many Hands this way as you have levels in this class.

Any hand which is used for a non-sustained ability is considered used until the start of your next turn, and any hand used for a sustained ability is considered used until the ability is released.

Whenever you use an ability that requires your Hands, you may opt to combine it with another ability that requires your Hands with the same action cost (i.e. move, standard, etc) If you do so they must be different abilities and not the same one multiple times. Each additional ability adds a -4 penalty for all rolls you make for the combined abilities.

Mental Strength(SU): As others talk about lifting mountains, he will instead ask where they want it to end up. As others wonder how to how to write a message in the dirt across the field, he only asks what they want it to say.

The Telekineticist can move an object with his mind or perform some act of manual dexterity at any distance within the range of his Hands at will as a move action.

Objects weighing up to 25lb/level/Hand may be maintained without limit. May be moved at a rate of 40' or your fastest natural speed, whichever is faster per action.
Objects weighing up to 50lb/level/Hand as a heavy load may be moved normally at a rate of 30' per action
Objects weighing up to 100lb/level/Hand may be moved normally at a rate of 20' per action
Objects weighing up to 250lb/level/Hand may be pushed or dragged along the ground at a rate of 10' per action.
You may add additional Hands to increase the speed by 10' per Hand, this may not increase the speed past your fastest natural speed.

These movements are smooth and the pressure is uniform over the object unless you desire otherwise. These movements are not limited in direction, but do have a limited duration. The Telekineticist can only maintain pressure for up to wisdom modifier rounds for anything weighing more than 25lbs/level/Hand, after that the object drops to the ground and the Telekineticist is fatigued for 1d4 rounds. You may not initiate this ability if you are fatigued. If you cease pressure, and do not use any ability requiring Telekinetic Hands for a full round, the duration you may keep this up is reset.

Creatures may be moved in this way, but they get a will save to negate the effects each round. Any movement from this ability provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. The Telekineticist may not use this ability on himself.

The Telekineticist can also perform a feat of manual dexterity anywhere within the maximum range of his Hands. This includes making skill checks that need hands, like Open Lock, though the Hands still need to be holding the needed tools. This manipulation is limited by the number of hands used. If you wish to do something which would require two physical hands to achieve (like tie a knot in some rope), then you must use at least 2 hands. No additional effect is had by using more Hands than necessary for any given action.

Force Burst(SU): As his limbs started exploding, they wondered why he just sat there. Then he started cackling. And finally he just fell over before his head exploded...

You focus you telekinetic ability in an attempt to rip the target apart from the inside. At will as a standard action that requires 1 Hand at least, you may make a ranged touch attack to one target with a blast that deals 1d6+1/level. You may invest more Hands to add 1d6/Hand up to your max level in the class. You may split up the blast across multiple targets. Each additional target takes the same damage as the first, however each target also imposes a cumulative -2 penalty on the to hit roll.

The target must succeed on a fortitude save when hit or suffer one of the following Rider effects for 1D4 rounds. You begin play knowing only one rider effect (sickened), but gain access to other effects at the indicated levels, and may choose freely between any riders you know with each use of Force Burst. You may only have one rider per use of this ability. This ability only functions within the range of your Hands. This ability effects undead and other creatures normally immune to fortitude saves, although the riders may not have any effect.

Riders:
{table=head] Level | Rider Effect
1 | Target is Sickened
5 | Target is Confused
10 | Target is Nauseated
15 | Target is Stunned
20 | Target is Paralyzed
[/table]

This is a force effect and requires line of effect.

Force Fling(SU): The first sign of the wandering Telekineticist would have been the tree, upside down in the keep's main tower. Then of course there were the cows...OK, what was left of the cows, all over the town square. Though, the thing that really stuck in the minds of Griftshire's people was the day the prince crash landed, upside down, and slightly exploded, on the pulpit halfway through the holyday sermon. As it turns out, Telekineticists aren't always subtle.


At will as a standard action, the Telekineticist can launch an object within the range of his Hands. Each object may weigh no more than 25lb/level +25lbs/Hand invested up to your Telekineticist level, and requires the use of at least a single Hand. The object travels up to 10ft/level and this movement may take it outside of the Hands range.

The Telekineticist makes a single standard ranged attack. The object deals bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage (DM's choice) depending on it's weight up to 1d6/25lb (minimum 1d6). Regardless of the item launched, you do not take a non-proficiency penalty for this attack. Weapons launched with this power deal damage according to their weight unless you are proficient with them, at which point you may deal normal weapon damage (and damage type) instead of damage by weight. The critical threat for objects used this way is 20/x2. Any enchantments or abilities the weapon/s may have are applied as long as you are proficient with it. The keen enchantment, or any similar ability involving critical threat ranges does not apply. A flaming burst weapon would always consider it's threat range as 20/x2.

If holding an item with Mental Strength that could be used for this ability, you may use the Hand holding it in the Force Fling, and maintain your hold on the item after the fling so long as it is still in the range of your Hands.

Additionally you may use this ability to destroy objects. Starting at level 5, instead of flinging the object you may focus your power inwards. This causes the object to suffer the effects similar to a Shatter spell except as noted here: The save is Fortitude and its DC is 10+1/2 lvl+cha mod, this specifically targets objects and they are not immune, you may affect any composition of material, and you may affect weights up to 25lb/level+25lbs/Hand.

Wild Talent: His powers weren't born from years of study; his powers were born from his wild imagination.

You gain the feat Wild Talent as a bonus feat.

Telekinetic Fighting(SU): "You say you need an army to guard your gates? No need. Show me your armory, and I will hold your front door." ~A Telekineticist to the castle guard.

Least:
At 2nd level The Telekineticist may use Hands to wield weapons he is proficient with and fight within the range of his Hands. Any weapon wielded in this fashion may be moved up to 30ft in a round as a free action. Only weapons wielded within 5' of your self qualify as being wielded by you for purposes of feats or class abilities that effect them.

At will as a standard action, you may make a single melee attack with one such weapon, using Charisma instead of Strength for the to hit and damage rolls. You only threaten squares within your physical reach, if the weapon is beyond this range it does not threaten on it's own. A one-handed or smaller weapon requires one Hand and a two-handed weapon requires two Hands to use. Any weapon(s) held by your Hands may have additional Hands added to it, each increasing the damage by 1/2 charisma modifier.

You may only have a maximum number of Hands in use by this ability (wielding weapons and increasing damage) equal to your total HD.

The Telekineticist suffers -1 to hit for every 10ft increment between the weapon and The Telekineticist, and a -1 to damage for every 20ft increment between the weapon and The Telekineticist, to a maximum of the range of his Hands. He may maintain this effect for a number of rounds equal to his constitution score per encounter.

Lesser:
At 6th level at will you may make a full attack with the weapon(s) you are wielding with Telekinetic Fighting. You may not make more attacks than you could without your Telekinetic Hands, but you may spread your iterative attacks between weapons at no penalty, although the range penalty still applies. You may now hold a light or heavy shield with one Hand or a tower shield in two Hands. Such a shield may occupy any square including your own or those of your allies (but not an enemy's) and confers on anyone in that square the shield's AC bonus as a shield bonus to their own AC, and multiple shields do not stack.

Improved:
At level 11 at will as a standard action you may attack once with each weapon wielded by your Telekinetic Fighting. This is done with a single attack roll at your highest attack bonus, but takes a penalty to hit equal to -2 for each weapon after the first.
You may wield a weapon of a larger size category than you normally could for your size. For every size category larger than normal, the weapon requires an additional Hand to wield, these Hands do not add extra damage, but you may add further Hands to do so.

The duration you may maintain this effect is removed.

Greater:
At 16th level you no longer take the distance penalties for the distance between you and your weapon, but you are still limited to the range of your Hands. Also, at will as a fullround action, you may attack with each weapon you hold with Hands up to the number of attacks granted from you BAB for each weapon plus any extra attacks granted from feats or weapon enchantments that apply to fighting with one weapon. These attacks all suffer a cumulative penalty of -2 for each weapon after the first. This means that feats such as Two Weapon Fighting or Multi Weapon Fighting would not apply, but the Speed enchantment and similar effects would.

Telekinetic Reach(SU): "It's just a floating sword! It can't be that dangerous...right?" ~Captain Reokus' last coherent words

At third level, you may chose to have any weapon you are wielding with your Telekinetic Fighting threaten adjacent squares as normal for a weapon of it's type. This ability is useable at will as a free action. If the weapon has the reach quality then calculate accordingly.

Trapfinding(EX): "The thing with traps is this: if you stand near them, they might kill you. Best to do it with a bit of distance between you and it." ~A Telekineticist

You can use the Search skill to locate traps when the task has a Difficulty Class higher than 20.

Finding a nonmagical trap has a DC of at least 20, or higher if it is well hidden. Finding a magic trap has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it.

You can use the Disable Device skill to disarm magic traps. A magic trap generally has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it.
If you beat a trap’s DC by 10 or more with a Disable Device check you can study a trap, figure out how it works, and bypass it (with your party) without disarming it.

Far Trick(SU): "Not very long ago, you thought that because you tied me up and surrounded me with guards I was no longer a threat. Would you care to re-assess?" ~A Telekineticist after disarming and grappling his captors from a chair in the corner of the room.

Starting at 4th lvl when your powers start to mature, you gain the ability to use specific types of combat tricks at will as a standard action within the range of your Hands. These work as normal except Charisma is used instead of any physical score, and your size bonus (or penalty) does not apply to these checks. These abilities do not provoke Attacks of Opportunity and enemies don't get to add their size bonus (or penalty) to the modifier. On a failed attempt, the target doesn't get the reactive attempt to use it back on you. This ability is useable at will and requires a standard action and 1 Hand to use (in the case of multiple targets, you require 1 Hand/target, with a -2 penalty to all rolls for each trick after the first).

Each trick initially receives a penalty of -1/10ft away from the target you are. Each trick requires one hand to activate.

At 4th level you may attempt to bullrush an opponent.

At 6th level you may attempt disarm attempts against foes. If you desire you may catch the item, if you won, in the Hand used for this maneuver as part of the action. The penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/20ft.

At 8th level you may attempt trip attempts against foes. The penalty for disarming is reduced to -1/20ft, and the penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/40ft.

At 10th level you may attempt to grapple foes. You do not suffer the negative effects of grappling someone when using this ability. The penalty for tripping is reduced to -1/20ft, the penalty for disarming is reduced to -1/40ft, and the penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/80ft.

Minds Eye(SU): "Come out, come out, wherever you are...no seriously, I can see all of you...why are you all looking at me like that?" ~ A Telekineticist as he walks through a town of invisible ninjas.

At 5th level, at will as a full round action you may gain Touchsight out to half the range of your Hands until the end of your next turn by using 1 Hand.

At 10th level this increases to the full range of your Hands.

At 15th level you may maintain this ability indefinitely with one hand.

At 20th level this ability no longer requires a Hand to maintain and is always active (even when you are not psionically focused).

Martial Skill (EX): "Do you know how easy it is to train with a weapon when your body doesn't get in the way? No? Wouldn't have thought so..." ~A Telekineticist discussing his satchel of unusual weaponry with an incredulous guardsman.

You may not be a fighter, but you understand weapons of war.

At 5th level you gain two additional martial weapon proficiencies of your choice.

At 9th level you gain two more additional martial weapon proficiencies of your choice.

At 14th level you gain one additional martial weapon proficiency and one additional exotic weapon proficiency of your choice.

At 19th level you gain two additional exotic weapon proficiencies of your choice.

Telekinetic Flight(SU): At first they feared his power, then they felt his power, but never did they see him because they forgot to look up.

At 7th level, you have finally mastered moving yourself using your Hands. At will as a move action, you may initiate Telekinetic Flight .One Hand is required to initiate and sustain flight. If you reach the duration of the ability, you immediately descend directly downwards at a rate equal to the fly speed (taking falling damage if you fail to reach solid ground in this distance) and become fatigued for 1d4 rounds. You may not initiate this ability if you are fatigued. If you cease flying, and do not use any ability requiring Telekinetic Hands for a full round, the duration you may keep this up is reset.

At 7th level, you may fly at a speed of 30ft with perfect maneuverability for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom modifier. You may keep this flight up indefinitely by using three hands.

At 11th level, your fly speed increases to 40ft and you may stay aloft for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom score. You only need two Hands to keep this up indefinitely.

At 13th level, your fly speed increases to 60ft and may be sustained indefinitely with only one Hand.

Focused Shield(SU): "You know what's fun? A good fight. You know what isn't fun? An unfair fight. Let's just fix this real quick...and there we go. Now this is fun." ~A Telekineticist as he separates the enemy into smaller groups.

At 9th level you may create a 10'x10' barrier with your Hands at will as a move action. Maintaining this barrier requires a move action. You may create and maintain multiple shields in the same action, as long as you have the Hands to do so. They are transparent yet not invisible, or even hard to see. They appear as a continuous ripple in the affected areas. They do block Line of Effect, but not Line of Sight.

Each shield requires 1 Hand to activate and maintain, but may be augmented as described below. Any unattended objects or projectiles are instantly stopped and cannot pass through. There is no limit to the amount of material the barrier can support. Spells cannot pass through the barrier unless they do not require Line of Effect, and those which require an attack roll simply end at the barrier.

If a creature attempts to pass through, it suffers an immediate bullrush effect upon contact with the barrier, as if the barrier were a gargantuan creature (+12 size bonus) with a Strength score equal to your Charisma score. The barrier does not make an attack roll to make this bullrush, it just happens. If the barrier wins the opposed check, the creature is pushed out of the wall in the direction it attempted to enter from. The wall cannot push the creature farther than 5ft from its edges (as the wall does not move with the creature). If the creature wins, it forces it's way through the barrier, causing it to disperse.

You may form the barrier over a creature, in which case it is effected as though it had tried to pass though the wall (The creature is pushed towards the closest edge of the wall, or whatever direction is not facing you in case of a tie). If the creature is pushed/thrown into the wall, use the bullrush check of the creature/force that pushed them into the wall instead of the creature's if it is higher.

You cannot form multiple barriers in the same square or in any square occupied by Lockdown or Singularity.

Any creature that attempts to pass through the barrier and fails takes force damage equal to 1D6 +1/ class level. The barrier is a 10ft x 10ft pane, positioned as you please within Telekinesis range. You may create and maintain multiple barriers at once, and any number of barriers may be set as part of the same move action so long as you have enough hands free to create them. You may dismiss these shields as a non action.

You may augment this ability by investing additional hands, as described below:

You may increase the force with which the wall pushes creatures away. Each additional hand invested in this way increases the damage by 1d6 and adds an additional +2 bonus to its bullrush check. If this more powerful wall succeeds on a bullrush check by 10 or more the creature is knocked prone, and if it succeeds by 20 or more the creature is stunned for 1 round unless it makes a fort save (DC 10 + 1/2 class level + your charisma modifier).

You may invest 1 additional Hand to shape the Shield. All parts must be touching, but the barrier can otherwise take any shape you desire.

You may invest additional Hands to increase the size of the shield at a rate of 5'x5' per Hand. Thus with 1 extra Hand it is a 15'x15' pane, with 2 it becomes 20'x20' and so on.

Critical Thinking(EX): "You know, I used to just fling weapons. Then I realized that if I can fling it just right, I can stab you in the face, while I slice open your stomach. Won't this be fun?" ~A Telekineticist as he gets a critical strike on his enemy.

Starting at 11th level, you have learned how to wield a weapon in the most dangerous fashion.

At level 11 weapons with which you are proficient used in Force Fling get their normal critical threat range.

At level 18 all objects wielded with Telekinetic Hands get their normal threat range and are treated as though you had Improved Critical. You do not actually gain the feat, and it does not count for prerequisites. This ability stacks in the same way as the feat.

Ghostly Hands(EX): Some people fear ghosts and other creatures that are not tangible. The Telekineticist chooses instead to reach out for them. To hold onto them. To interact with them.

At 12th level, your abilities become capable of affecting incorporeal objects and creatures. Objects thrown using Force Fling must be incorporeal to do so, but weapons wielded using Telekinetic Fighting are treated as being both corporeal and incorporeal from now on. Your Focused Shields now affect incorporeal creatures.

At 17th level all your abilities can affect creatures and objects from any coterminous planes.

Lockdown (SU): "What, you think those guys are gonna get here? Why would we let that happen?" ~A Telekineticist as he stops a marching army.

At level 13 you learn how to use you Hands to manipulate the molecules within an area. At will as a standard action you may create a sphere of dense air by using 1 Hand. The sphere is 5' in radius and may be placed anywhere within the range of your Hands. You may dismiss the field as a non action.

Thrown weapons cannot be used within the sphere, even when launched from outside. Ranged attacks with all other weapons or ranged spells take a -2 penalty on attack rolls for every 5' they travel through this effect, in addition to their normal penalties for range.

Melee attacks take a -2 penalty to hit, and in addition Bludgeoning and Slashing attacks deal half damage, and Bludgeoning damage becomes exclusively nonlethal within the field (as if the weapon were Merciful). Melee Piercing weapons take a penalty to damage equal to the penalty to hit. Weapons which deal more than one type of damage at a time like a morningstar are considered whichever type would be least beneficial (so that morningstar would be considered Bludgeoning for this purpose, even though it also does Piercing damage under normal conditions).

Creatures within the area of the Lockdown must make a Fort save if they wish to move. If they pass they may move up to 1/2 of their speed. If they fail by 4 or less, they may only move up to 1/4 of their move speed. Failure by 5 or more means the attempt to move fails and the action is wasted.

You may augment Lockdown with additional Hands in one or more of the ways detailed below:

Increase the radius of your Lockdown by 5'/Hand
Increase all penalties to hit (melee, ranged, and spells) by 2/Hand
Increase the save DC by 1/Hand
Any Hand invested this way only gives a bonus for the chosen area (i.e. if you want to increase the penalty by 4 and increase the DC by 4, you would need to invest 6 additional Hands)

You cannot form multiple Lockdowns in the same square or in any square occupied by Focused Shield or Singularity. A Freedom of Movement effect removes the melee attack penalties and movement penalty.

At level 16 you may make any area that you Lockdown so dense that it blocks Line of Effect (as if it were solid), but not Line of Sight. As well as also stopping extradimensional travel. Forms of movement barred include but are not limited to astral projection, blink, dimension door, ethereal jaunt, etherealness, gate, maze, plane shift, shadow walk, teleport, and similar abilities/spells/powers. Once Lockdown is in place, extradimensional travel into or out of the area is not possible.

A Lockdown does not interfere with the movement of creatures already in ethereal or astral form when the spell is cast, nor does it block extradimensional perception or attack forms. Also, the spell does not prevent summoned creatures from disappearing at the end of a summoning spell.

A Freedom of Movement effect has no effect on this blocking Line of Effect or stopping extradimensional travel, but still removes the movement and attack penalties.

Disrupting Throw(SU): They thought that just because they weren't close, and he wasn't holding a weapon that they would be safe...they were so very, very wrong.

At 15th level, at will as an immediate action, you may attempt an attack of opportunity against any opponent up to 5ft/class level away. They must have just taken an action which would provoke an attack of opportunity were you adjacent to them, but you need not be threatening the opponent. You may use your Force Burst, Force Fling, or any of your Far Tricks. This counts towards your attacks of opportunity for the round.

Singularity(SU): "They say that when something gets very dense at a very small point, it gets really hard to move away from there...Let's just see if that's the truth, shall we?" ~A Telekineticist as he pulls a fleeing group into the sphere.

At will as a standard action, you may use one Hand to create a Singularity point anywhere within your TK range. The Singularity may effect any number of creatures (not objects, although undead are susceptible) within 30' of it's center point, even if this would go beyond your TK range. Each target creature must be hit with a ranged touch attack from an unoccupied Hand, whereupon they must succeed a Fortitude save or be affected by the Singularity point. To target a creature it must weigh no more than 50lbs/level. You may use additional hands to increase the save DC and maximum weight for a target, each additional Hand yields +2 DC and +50lbs/level. You may dismiss Singularity as a free action.

The Singularity may be used in one of two ways, attraction or repulsion, but not both ways at once (these are detailed separately below). Regardless of which way this is used, any creature killed by damage from a Singularity is instantly reduced to a fine paste which can only be brought back to life by a True Resurrection, miracle, wish, or other similar effect. Any equipment carried by a destroyed target is unharmed. When a target gets destroyed by a Singularity, any Hands invested in that specific target become immediately available to the Telekineticist to invest or use.

Under attraction, all affected creatures are drawn towards the Singularity, where they collide with each other and are held. Upon collision, all targets take bludgeoning damage equal to 2d6/10' each target traveled put together (for example, there are 3 targets. Target A travels 20', target B travels 10' and target C travels 30'. Upon collision at the center they each take 12d6 bludgeoning damage).

Every round at the start of their turn, affected creatures get a new Fortitude save to escape the effect. Until they succeed on a saving throw to break free any creature caught in a Singularity is only able to take purely mental actions. The save DC increases by +2 for every other target caught in the singularity (so if four creatures were caught inside, the DC would be at +6). For every round they fail this save, the target will take 5d6 crushing damage as the force holding them applies pressure. You may invest more Hands in the Singularity, to increase the damage they take by an additional 5d6/Hand.



Under repulsion, all affected creatures are thrown away from the Singularity instead. A repulsed creature is thrown 30' directly away from the Singularity and takes 5d6 damage. If nothing obstructs this movement, the creature is left prone outside the area of the Singularity and may not reenter by any means until the end of the Singularity effect (though they may still fire ranged weapons and spells into and through the effect). However, if an object like a wall or pillar obstructs this movement, they take an additional 2d6 damage for every 10' they failed to travel, and are crushed as if under attraction instead of repulsion until the end of the effect. You may invest more Hands in the Singularity to increase the distance thrown and damage inflicted by repulsion, for each additional Hand so invested you gain +10' distance thrown and +5d6 damage.

You cannot form multiple Singularities in the same square or in any square occupied by Lockdown or Focused Shield.

Master Of The Far Hand(EX): He now stands tall, his powers matured. Everything is his plaything, and the world his playground.

At 20th level, you have reached the pinnacle of your mental power. Reality becomes an illusion which you can bend like putty, and many of your abilities are enhanced as follows:

All your at will class abilities gained from this class are now considered Extraordinary.

Your Disrupting Throw becomes a free action, still taking up an attack of opportunity per use. It may also be used anywhere within your Telekinesis range.

Your flight speed increases to 120ft.

You no longer take range penalties to your Far Tricks.

Weapons wielded by you for your Telekinetic Fighting can now move up to 60' instead of 30'. In addition, you may now add 2x Cha mod to damage rolls as opposed just 1x Cha mod. Extra Hands invested in dmg for weapons now add 1x Cha mod as opposed to .5x Cha mod.

Your Focused Shields are now stable enough that if someone manages to force their way through them they are no longer dispersed and they take the damage whether they make it through the shield or not.

Your Lockdown can now stop magic before it begins. With this, any area you Lockdown prevents all spells and spell-like abilities from being cast from within and suppresses effects granted from spells and spell-like abilities that are already cast. Spells may still be cast into the sphere, as long as they don't require Line of Effect. This also effects spells from items, but the items themselves function normally.

For example:
A spell/spell-like ability grants you Freedom of Movement. When you enter the field, that effect is suppressed and any attempt to recast it fails.
You wear a ring of Freedom of Movement. Upon entering the field the ring functions as normal and you continue to benefit from it.
You have an item with the the ability to cast spells, like a wand or scroll. When you enter the field, any attempt to cast these spells fails and any that are already active are suppressed.

The Telekinetic Hands gained through class levels in this class and feats is doubled. This applies to those already gained, gained this level, and any gained in the future, unless they state otherwise.


ACFs:

Pure Telekineticist.

Replaces: d6 Hit Die, Martial Skill, Telekinetic Fighting, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Telekinetic Reach, and Critical Thinking.

Benefit:Hit die becomes d4, and the number of Hands you have is increased to 1 Hand/Class Level + your Con mod. The range of your telekinesis increases to 20ft/level. The range of your Disrupting Throw becomes 10ft/class level.


Unarmed Telekineticist

Replaces: Martial Skill, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Medium Armor Proficiency, ability to wield weapons not generated by this ACF with Telekinetic Fighting.

Benefit: You may generate weapons with your Hands which may be used as normal, but they are the only weapons this class may use for Telekinetic Fighting. You may generate as many as you would like at the rate of at least 1 Hand/Weapon as a move action and they may be utilized anywhere within the range of your Hands. You may not create more weapons than you have Hands available. It takes a move action to do any one of the following for all currently formed weapons: invest Hands, remove invested Hands, or dismiss the weapons. These weapons follow the same rules as normal weapons when used in Telekinetic Fighting.

All invested Hands apply to the damage dice as well as the bonus modifier. These weapons use your Cha modifier for to hit and damage rolls instead of any physical ones.

These deal damage equal to 1d6/Hand damage and count as either Piercing, Bludgeoning, or Slashing whichever is most beneficial. They gain a bonus to hit of +1/Hand. Maximum Hands invested in a single weapon are equal to your class levels. These are treated as weapons the Telekineticist is proficient with for all purposes. Their critical range begins at 20/x2. This increases to 20/x3 at 11th level, and to 19-20/x3 at 16th.

At 4th level these weapons may be treated as magical for the purposes of overcoming DR. At 10th level they may be considered to be any or all of the following for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction: cold iron, silver, and magical . Finally, at 16th level may be considered to be any or all of the following for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction: adamantine, cold iron, silver, and magical. This is chosen at the time the weapons are formed.

At level 20 these weapons may be considered to be any or all of the following for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction: Epic, of your alignment for both the Law-Chaos scale and Good-Evil scale, adamantine, cold iron, silver, and magical.

These weapons may take any color and whatever weapon shape you chose, but this has no mechanical effect. These weapons are all medium sized with a 5' reach. They may be made larger with Improved Telekinetic Fighting, although only 1d6 gets improved to the next step up no matter how many d6s you get normally, but their reach improves as normal for getting larger.



TK SAVANT ACF
Whereas the psion and the wilder have learned to hone their minds into weapons capable of manifesting their merest whim, many Telekineticists find they are too specialized to manifest in the truest sense. Some few discover instead how to mimic the effects of certain powers through manipulation of their Hands. These few are known as Telekineticist Savants.

Replaces:
Medium Armour Proficiency, Martial Skill, Critical Thinking, Far Trick.
Delay the acquisition of TK Fighting by one step (Least @ 6th, Lesser @ 11th and Improved @ 16th). You do not gain Greater TK Fighting at any point.
Change the Telekineticist's BAB to average progression (like a cleric). You are not as martially minded as other Telekineticists, but your understanding of your powers stretch to the abstract far more than most.

Benefits:

Warp Reality
At 1st level you start to gain a number of Psi-Like abilities as you progress, determined by which discipline you choose to follow (listed below). Each ability requires a number of hands to be used, equal to the level of the power simulated. Hands used this way are considered used until the beginning of your next turn. Your manifester level is equal to your class level, and any saves run off your Charisma modifier.
1st level. Level 1 power, usable 3+ con modifier times per day.
3rd level. Level 2 power, usable 2+ con modifier times per day.
5th level. Level 3 power, usable 1+ con modifier times per day.
7th level. Level 4 power, usable con modifier times per day.
9th level. Level 5 power, usable con modifier -1 times per day.

Power Overwhelming
At 4th level you gain the ability to augment your Warp Reality with additional hands. Each additional hand counts as 2 power points for this purpose. You begin being able to use only 1 additional hand in this way. You may use another additional hand for every 4 levels thereafter (2 extra at 8th, 3 at 12th, etc, to a maximum of 5 additional hands at 20th.)

Master of the Far Hand
Remove this line from the ability:
"You no longer take range penalties to your far tricks."
Add this line to the ability:
Your Warp Reality powers now require only a move action to use. Your level 1 Warp Reality power is now at will.

Disciplines
Below are listed the discipline power lists, you must select one at 1st level, and may never change this choice. If a power uses your Intelligence for a calculation, replace it with your Charisma. If a power requires a touch attack, you may use a Hand to deliver it at a range of 5ft/class level, as long as you have one free. Each discipline grants a class skill and another ability (much like a Cleric's domain)

The Beast (Psychometabolism)
Add Knowledge (Nature) and Survival to the Telekineticist's list of class skills.

1st level power. Thicken Skin
2nd level power. Animal Affinity
3rd level power. Hustle
4th level power. Metamorphosis
5th level power. Psychofeedback

Claws of The Beast
At 5th level you gain the ability to grow claws using your Hands. As a move action you may use a Hand to gain a natural claw attack, which you maintain for as long as you have at least one Hand invested in it. You may invest additional hands for extra damage to a maximum of 1/4 class levels (so you begin with only one Hand for the claw, but may add a second at Telekineticist level 8). The claw attack deals damage equal to 1D6/Hand + Charisma AND Strength modifier.


The Traveler (Psychoportation)
Add Knowledge (The Planes) to the Telekineticist's list of class skills.

1st level power. Detect Teleportation
2nd level power. Dimension Swap
3rd level power. Astral Caravan
4th level power. Psionic Dimensional Anchor
5th level power. Psionic Teleport

Group Mentality
At 5th level you gain the ability to manifest the power Astral Traveller at will as a move action. This requires the use of one Hand which is used until the end of your turn. You may touch multiple targets with the same move action (1 Hand/target), as long as you have enough Hands to do so.



The Mentalist (Telepathy)
Add Bluff to the Telekineticist's list of class skills.

1st level power. Psionic Charm
2nd level power. Psionic Suggestion
3rd level power. Hostile Empathic Transfer
4th level power. Psionic Dominate
5th level power. Mind Probe

Mind's Eye
Your Mind's eye ability gains the following enhancement:
You may improve your Mind's Eye ability with the use of an additional hand. You gain the effects of the Read Thoughts power with 2 differences:
The area becomes that of your Mind's Eye ability.
Creatures with an intelligence of 26 or higher (and at least 10 points higher than your own intelligence score) no longer stun you if they are read. Instead, you simply cannot comprehend the thoughts you read and therefore gain no effect for the purposes of these creatures.

The Augur (Clairsentience)
Add Gather Information to the Telekineticist's list of class skills.

1st level power. Precognition
2nd level power. Clairvoyant Sense
3rd level power. Fate Link
4th level power. Remote Viewing
5th level power. Clairtangent Hand (except as follows);

1. This emulates one of your Hands, not the Far Hand power.
2. When you augment this power, it allows you to make a Force Burst, Force Fling, or Mental Strength action (not telekinetic force, maneuver or thrust) with the clairtangent hand, as if it were a Hand within your TK range.

Preemptive Defenses
At 5th level The Augur gains the ability as a move action to 'reserve' a number of his hands up to 1/4 class level. You may reserve these hands until you next sleep, and as long as they are reserved they may not be used for any other abilities, releasing a hand from this ability is a move action. For as long as you have at least one Hand reserved, you gain a +2/hand reserved as an insight bonus to reflex saves and AC.


The Maker (Metacreativity)


Add Knowledge (Engineering) to the Telekineticist's list of class skills.

1st level power. Astral Construct
2nd level power. Psionic Repair Damage
3rd level power. Ectoplasmic Cocoon
4th level power. Psionic Fabricate
5th level power. Hail of Crystals

Constructive Hands
At 5th level The Maker learns to turn his Hands into finely crafted tools, to astonishing results. Whenever The Maker makes a Craft check, he may use a number of Hands equal to 1/2 class levels, always 2 at a time (so 2, 4, 6, etc), henceforth called a 'Pair' to simulate a duplicate of himself for the work.
This ability has 3 effects and may be used in conjunction with Craft (Sculpture) for the purposes of creating astral constructs and for Craft checks involving Psionic Fabricate, but has no effect on the time it takes to manifest the powers:

1. Gain a cumulative +2 bonus to your Craft check results for each Pair you invested in the Crafting check.
2. Multiply your Craft check result by 1+ Pairs you have invested in the check for the purposes of calculating time taken to craft.
3. At 9th level, when you gain the Focused Shield ability, you also gain the ability to shape your shields in a new way. By using 2 equally sized shields, you may create a hemisphere which has a radius equal to the size of the panes making it (i.e. two 10x10 panes would create a 10ft radius hemisphere). You may enlarge the hemisphere with additional Pairs at a rate of +5ft radius/Pair invested. The hemisphere counts as a single shield when adding extra hands for increased damage and bullrush checks.

DerTollUdo
2012-03-08, 01:13 PM
So, I was thinking, should I put a link in the class description to my last post for the currently in progress one? That way people viewing the class can jump to the most current version without having to check through a bunch of pages to make sure...I don't want to step on Bob's toes, just wanna keep the class updated when he isn't around.

Also, I modified the Mental Strength. I think it fixes all the dispute about it now and is clear and concise.

Also added into Unarmed that creating weapons is a move action. Should that stay?


EDIT:
So, the last post got too long. Magic Items and Feats will now be here.

Feats:

Crystallize Hand

Requirements: Telekineticist of 4th level or higher, you must permanently sacrifice one of your Telekinetic Hands.
Benefit: When you take this feat, you permanently reduce the number of Hands you posses by 1. This Hand is crystallized, becoming corporeal and functioning almost identically to a psicrystal, except as noted below:

Treat your effective psion level as your Telekineticist level - 3 for the purposes of calculating your Crystallized Hand's properties.
Remove Share Powers from the list.
Replace Deliver Touch Powers with the following:

Crystalline Reach
You may deliver a Force Burst, Force Fling, Far Trick or Focused Shield through your Crystallized Hand, treating it as the center of your TK range for all effects of that ability. To do so, the Crystallized Hand must be within 5ft of you when you invest Hands in the ability, you do not regain use of these Hands until the Crystallized Hand delivers the ability or is destroyed.
If you are a TK Savant, you may deliver any touch ranged Warp Reality ability in this same manner.

Treat the Channel Power ability as reading 'TK Hand ability' instead of 'powers' in every instance. If you are a TK Savant you may also use your Warp Reality abilities in this manner.

Special: Your Crystallized Hand counts as a psicrystal, and this feat counts as the Psicrystal Affinity feat for the purposes of feat requirements. You count as having a manifester level equal to your TK level - 3 for the purposes of qualifying for psicrystal feats. If your Crystallized Hand is destroyed, you regain the use of the Hand you sacrificed after 1D4 days or you may recreate a destroyed Crystallized Hand after a similar period. You do not lose experience if it is destroyed. You may create a new one whenever you wish as a full round action as long as it has not been destroyed, but may only have one at any given time.


Crystalline Mind Schism

Requirements: Crystallize Hand, Psicrystal Containment
Benefit: As long as your Crystalline Hand is holding psionic focus, whenever you use Crystalline Reach you may opt to invest any number of your Hands to your Crystalline Hand for it to use on any one Crystalline Reach ability, chosen at the time of investment. This ability cannot be changed until Hands are reinvested to it. These Hands return not to you, but to the Crystalline Hand when used, allowing you to activate multiple Crystalline Reach abilities before the Crystalline Hand need return to you. The Crystalline Hand uses these abilities as if it were a duplicate of you, but may only use a single ability each turn and always as a standard action or the normal action type, whichever is longer.

You may spend a move action each turn to direct your Crystalline Hand, otherwise it behaves as your protector, defending you and attacking anything which threatens you.

During this time, you may not use the invested Hands for any other effects, although the Crystalline Hand's destruction or a full round action (which provokes attacks of opportunity) returns control of all Hands invested in the Crystallized Hand to you. This effect only lasts for a number of minutes equal to your Charisma modifier per investment of Hands; after which time the Hands automatically return to your control.



Look Ma, more hands!(General)

Requirements: Telekineticist 1st level only.
Benefit: For some reason, you have more hands than other Telekineticists, maybe you're just greedy like that...
You have extra hands equal to 1+1/5 Telekineticist levels (round down) in addition to the number normally granted by the class.
Special: This feat may only be taken once and only at 1st character level.


Enhanced Discipline

Requirements: Level 1 Telekineticist with the TK Savant ACF

Benefits: You must be psionically focused to gain these effects.
You gain a +1 bonus to your psi-like abilities' save DCs, and their durations improve by 50%. You also gain an additional benefit depending upon which discipline you follow, as listed below:
The Beast: You gain scent
The Mentalist: You gain telepathy (limited to your TK range)
The Traveler: You gain fast movement (+10ft to all base speeds)
The Augur: Add your Charisma modifier as a bonus to your initiative checks
The Maker: Add your Constitution modifier to the hardness of any item you make.
Special: This feat may only be taken at first level.


Mine Sweeper [Psionic]
Requirements:Trapfinding class feature, Mind's Eye class feature

Benefits:You gain the ability to use your Mind's Eye to make a search check in a large area. You may make a search check as if you were searching a single 5ft square (you may not take 20 unless you have an ability which states directly otherwise) to instead apply this result to the entire area of your Mind's Eye. You become instantly aware of any traps you find, and know where they and their triggers are.
This is an emanation with a range equal to your Mind's Eye radius which requires three Hands and a full round action to complete in addition to what youur Mind's Eye requires. You may use additional Hands to gain a cumulative +2/Hand bonus on the search check.

TK Focus

Requirements: Telekinetic Hands class feature, must chose one of the following abilities;Force Burst, Force Fling, Far Trick, Focused Shield, Lockdown, Singularity, and must posses the chosen ability.

Benefit: You may use the chosen ability as a move action a number of times per day equal to your constitution modifier. You may not do so more than once per round.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times, each time it applies to a new ability.


TK Specialization

Requirements: TK Focus, Telekineticist level 4+

Benefits: The penalty taken when combining your TK Focus ability with another action is reduced to -2, but only for the chosen ability. You may use extra hands with your TK Focus ability to gain a bonus to any damage and opposed rolls at a rate of +2/additional hand, these extra hands are considered used until the end of the action.
Special: This feat may be taken multiple times, each time it applies to a new ability for which you have TK Focus


TK Supremacy

Requirements: TK Focus, TK Specialization, Telekineticist level 12+

Benefits: The ability for which you have TK Specialization and Focus is now considered a move action to use. You may use it as a swift action a number of times per day equal to your constitution modifier. You may not do so more than once per round.
Special: This feat may be taken multiple times, each time it applies to a new ability for which you have TK Specialization.


Fling Foe
Requirements: Force Fling class feature, Concentration 8 ranks, Charisma 16+
Benefit: At will as a standard action you may use your Force Fling ability on an opponent within the range of your Hands. To do so you make a ranged attack for Force Fling as normal, but it is opposed by the target's Fortitude save instead of their AC. Upon using this action (after you spend the action) you intuitively know how many Hands you need, or whether you simply don't have enough, and you must have enough Hands to lift the target as if they were an object.

A thrown target is launched up to 10ft / TK level in a straight line away from you where they land prone and receive 1D6 / 10ft (up to 1d6/TK level) they traveled. If an object obstructs the path of your target, both the target and the object take damage as if the target had traveled the full distance and the target lands prone in that square (smaller objects may be knocked aside or smashed, it is up to a DM to decide what constitutes enough obstruction).

If a creature is in the way, they must succeed a Reflex save (DC equal to the attack roll made) to avoid the flung target or take damage with the target and fall prone with them in the same square. Evasion and similar abilities do not apply.

Guided Fling
Requirements: Fling Foe, Concentration 12 ranks, Charisma 18+
Benefit: When you use your Fling Foe ability, you may throw them in any direction (including straight up) and all damage dice dealt by the ability increase from D6 to D8. Furthermore, if you deliberately collide 2 or more opponents who are all under the effects of Force Fling, all effected targets must make a Fortitude save (DC equal to the attack roll made) or be stunned for 1 round one after the collision.


Enhanced TK Flight
Requirements: Telekinetic Flight class ability

Benefit: You may augment your TK flight with additional hands in either or both of the following ways:

You may gain an enhancement bonus to your fly speed equal to +5'/additional Hand.

When you activate your flight ability, you may target any number of willing medium or smaller creatures for 1 additional Hands per target. This gives them the use of Telekinetic Flight as if they had the Telekinetic Flight ability and count as having the same number of Hands invested in it, and in the same way, as you do. They must remain within the range of your Hands to benefit.

This lasts for as long as you yourself are maintaining the effect. When the effect ends for any reason, anyone you 'brought along' descends in the same manner as described in the Telekinetic Flight section of Telekineticist. Larger creatures may be affected by this but you must use more hands to do so at a rate of +1 Hand/size category larger than medium (so a huge creature would require 3 hands to give it flgiht).

"Elementary My Dear Watson!"

Requirements: Telekineticist of 8th level or higher
Benefit: Upon taking this feat you must choose one of the following; fire, cold, electricity or acid (this may not be changed once made). Whenever you use an additional Hand on an ability to add a die of damage, that damage may be of the chosen elemental type.
Special: You may take this feat up to 4 times. You must choose a different elemental damage type each time you do so.




PrCs
This section will be links to PrCs so as to conserve posting multiple full classes in the same post.

Shadow Hand (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13122476&postcount=314)


Magic Items


Miniature Boulder:

This item is very useful to a Telekineticist. It has the dimensions of a marble, and weighs much the same.
As a move action (or free action with the quick draw feat) the marble can be activated. After its activation, the marble can be made to weigh up to 1000lb, always growing to a foot diameter sphere. Another move action is required to reduce it back down to marble size.

Veklim
2012-03-08, 01:22 PM
And now for a thought experiment.

Both make a will save, whoever wins out gets their movement, the other is considered blocked. If it's a tie, I'd allow both sets of movement for an action, then get them to have another contest the next round. Thing is, a TK fighting another TK is always gonna get messy, they'd most likely resort to just force blasting and trying to drop things on each other I'd say. You do bring up a good point though, we need to rule in for stuff like that...


I just want to avoid the problem of having a too low ceiling on carrying capacity.

I share that desire, certainly. I'd been fiddling with the carry loads for ages until I came up with my fix a few days ago after looking at one of my NPC character sheets. I saw the carry capacity boxes below gear and thought to myself 'I'm an idiot!'. This way you're not limited to either lifting it off the ground or not moving it at all, and it means really heavy stuff can be moved about, but not to the same extent.

OK, onto crunch stuff:

The Augur (Clairsentience)
Add Gather Information to the Telekineticist's list of class skills.

1st level power. Precognition
2nd level power. Clairvoyant Sense
3rd level power. Fate Link
4th level power. Remote Viewing
5th level power. Clairtangent Hand (except as follows);
1. This emulates one of your Hands, not the Far Hand power.
2. When you augment this power, it allows you to make a Force Blast or Mental Stregth action (not telekinetic force, maneuver or thrust) with the clairtangent hand, as if it were a Hand within your TK range.

Pre-emptive Defences
At 5th level The Augur gains the ability as a move action to 'reserve' a number of his hands up to 1/4 class level. You may reserve these hands until you next sleep, and as long as they are reserved they may not be used for any other abilities, releasing a hand from this ability is a move action. For as long as you have at least one Hand reserved, you gain a +2/hand reserved as an insight bonus to reflex saves and AC.

DerTollUdo
2012-03-08, 01:27 PM
Added Augur.

As to the thought experiment, yeah they both make saves to fight...although why they are just trying to move each other is odd...FLING MARBLES!

Veklim
2012-03-08, 01:31 PM
You missed these 3 feats...

TK Focus
Requirements: Telekinetic Hands class feature, must chose one of the following abilities; Mental Strength, Force Blast, Far Trick
Benefit: You may use the chosen ability as a move action a number of times per day equal to your constitution modier. You may not do so more than once per round.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times, each time it applies to a new ability.

TK Specialisation
Requirements: TK Focus, Telekineticist level 4+
Benefits: The penalty taken when combining your TK Focus ability with another action as part of a full round action is reduced to -1, but only for the chosen ability. You may use extra hands with your TK Focus ability to gain a bonus to any damage and opposed rolls at a rate of +2/additional hand, these extra hands are considered used until the end of the action.
Special: This feat may be taken multiple times, each time it applies to a new ability for which you have TK Focus

TK Supremacy
Requirements: TK Focus, TK Specialisation, Telekineticist level 12+
Benefits: The ability for which you have TK Specialisation and Focus is now considered a move action to use. You may use it as a swift action a number of times per day equal to your constitution modifier. You may not do so more than once per round.
Special: This feat may be taken multiple times, each time it applies to a new ability for which you have TK Specialisation.

Regarding latest edits, everything looks good to me except the requirements for Unarmed... they still have TK fighting, but they're meant to be the unarmed ones...

DerTollUdo
2012-03-08, 02:33 PM
Just because they are unarmed doesn't mean they cant still pelt with lightsabers or short swords. If they don't have TK fighting, then why don't they all invest in the strongest saber they can make and then do other utility? Why should they worry about prioritizing utility over field control?

That aside though, we don't have anything to really replace it. So, if you feel it should be gone on both pure and unarmed, please type up your edits so we may all see what you mean before we assume you're right :P

Also, is the wording clear on the action part of Unarmed and and Mental strength?

Veklim
2012-03-08, 02:51 PM
OK, couple of suggested edits, put in bold below:

Pure Telekineticist.

Replaces: Martial Skill, Telekinetic Fighting, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Telekinetic Reach and Critical Thinking.

Benefit:The number of Hands you have is increased to 1 Hand/Class Level. The range of your telekinesis increases to 20ft/level.


Unarmed Telekineticist

Replaces: Martial Skill, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Medium Armor Proficiency, ability to wield weapons with Telekinetic Fighting.

Benefit: You may generate weapons of pure force to use in place of normal weapons for your Telekinetic Fighting. You may generate as many as you would like at the rate of at least 1 Hand/Weapon as a move action. It also takes a move action to add or remove Hands from the weapons. All invested Hands apply to the damage dice as well as the bonus modifier.

These deal damage equal to 1d6/Hand force damage. They gain a bonus to hit and to damage equal to 1/2*Charisma Modifier*(Invested Hands + 1) maximum Hands invested in a single weapon are equal to your class levels. These are treated as weapons the Telekineticist is proficient with for all purposes. Their critical range begins at 20/x2. This increases to 19-20/x2 at 13th level, and to 19-20/x3 at 16th.

At 4th level these weapons are treated as magical for the purposes of overcoming DR. At 10th level they are also considered to be cold iron and silver for the purposes of overcoming DR. Finally, at 16th level they are considered to be adamantine for the purposes of overcoming DR.

These weapons may take the any color and whatever weapon shape you chose, but this has no mechanical effect.


Suggested edits reasoning:
Pure TK shouldn't be getting Critical Thinking because it doesn't have TK Fighting!
Unarmed TK shouldn't be able to use TK Fighting with normal weapons, and as such shouldn't be able to use them like that at all (you can still use weapons with force blast of course!). Gave them a critical boost because otherwise they gain no beneift from their main weapon with Critical Thinking, so now they gain a late (levels 11-18) progression to try and keep up with all those pesly party members who have actual corporeal weapons to enchant! Similar reasoning led me to add in their anti-DR progression.

On a related note, why shouldn't we take out this: 1/2*Charisma Modifier*(Invested Hands + 1), and replace it with the faaaaar simpler and yet reasonable: Charisma modifier *(1/2 Invested Hands). It's a simplification (needed) and also a slight nerf which I think they may need if we are to give them the anti-DR and critical progressions (which make them a far more rounded combatant imo)

Also, The Augur is sat outside the Savant spoiler dude, just noticed!

I'm all up for putting a link to your current summation of the class + extras, PM bob with the link and ask him to copy/paste to the top of his post, probably better than putting it into the class post itself.

Turalisj
2012-03-08, 03:05 PM
Unarmed TK doesn't seem that effective with the rewrites.... Compare every other damage dealer at 20th level.

Veklim
2012-03-08, 03:45 PM
These guys, at level 20, threaten just about everything and anything within a 200ft radius, and can strike disparate targets anywhere within this range, usually simultaneously... if we scaled up damage to be on par with just a one-handed specialist, we'd OP them to the nine hells and back as a result. These guys are battlefield control experts, they just happen to be able to hurt things a lot whilst doing this!

Re'ozul
2012-03-08, 04:25 PM
Unarmed TK doesn't seem that effective with the rewrites.... Compare every other damage dealer at 20th level.

What classes were you thinking about?

Even unoptimzed (no con, cha of 20 at lvl 20) he has 7 hands. If all of those are invested into one weapon you'd still have:
+40 attack bonus (+20 BAB, +20 (4xchamod))
7d6+20 damage at full iteratives.

Keep in mind, this is absolutely unoptimized, just as written.

Turalisj
2012-03-08, 04:29 PM
I didn't know you added 4*cha mod to your attack >.>

Still, you'd be doing about 1d6+5 damage with a single hand invested. :smallconfused:

Veklim
2012-03-08, 04:59 PM
Dude, read the class, THEN let us know what you think! :smallwink:


Class:
This is in need of PEACH. Just skip past the old comments.
The version currently in progress is located here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12861479&postcount=146).


Special thanks to VEKLIM and DerTollUdo for editing. It was a lot messier before.
Really, first time I got an editor, and the class is better for it...

So, I have tried to make blasters. They have all been kinda busy, and introduce too many new concepts. So going to try a different tact, something in line with an invoker.

The Telekineticist. A rather long name but oh well.

When the psionic talent begins to surface, they show odd signs. Some of these show it through the sudden movement of objects. Flying plates and tables mark a developing psion, yet some never grow out of it. These psions grow in power, standing up to psions in their own right as masters of psionic power.




Characteristics: The Telekineticist relies on its mind to create force affects. This can range from throwing a mass at a foe, throwing a foe, fighting with a weapon held with his mind, even to full power flight!

Alignment: The Telekineticist can be of any alignment. The power of the mind bares no alignment above others.

Religion: The Telekineticist favors gods of battle and psionics.

Races: Humans are drawn to this class like any other. Small races also enjoy this class, as it lets them use brains in place of brawn. Any mining race tends to have many Telekineticists since they aid in the mining process. All psionic races tend to favor this class like any other psionic class.

Other Classes: Martial classes tend to dislike The Telekineticist, as they seem too magical to be true martial. Magical classes enjoy The Telekineticist, as they seem to merely be imitating their own power.

Role: Can take on the role of a secondary tank, or perhaps stealth. But this class shines at battle field control. With numerous abilities for punishing foes unwilling to move as he wishes, and the ability to physically move foes into a formation of his choice, he can add some useful utility outside of combat while performing numerous tricks at a distance.

Game Rule Information:
Abilities:Charisma is very important, as it is the strength of The Telekineticist. Wisdom allows The Telekineticist to maintain effects longer, and constitution helps The Telekineticist stay alive while increasing maximum Hands.

Alignment: Any

Hit Die: d8

The Telekineticist
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

1st|+1|+0|+0|+2| Telekinetic Hands, Mental Strength, Force Blast, Wild Talent

2nd|+2|+0|+0|+3| Telekinetic Fighting: Least

3rd|+3|+1|+1|+3|Telekinetic Reach

4th|+4|+1|+1|+4| Far Trick

5th|+5|+1|+1|+4| Martial Skill, Mind's Eye

6th|+6/+1|+2|+2|+5| Telekinetic Fighting: Lesser, Far Trick

7th|+7/+2|+2|+2|+5| Telekinetic Flight

8th|+8/+3|+2|+2|+6| Far Trick

9th|+9/+4|+3|+3|+6| Martial Skill, Focused Shield

10th|+10/+5|+3|+3|+7| Telekinetic Flight: Improved, Mind's Eye, Far Trick

11th|+11/+6/+1|+3|+3|+7| Telekinetic Fighting: Improved, Critical Thinking

12th|+12/+7/+2|+4|+4|+8| Ghostly Hand

13th|+13/+8/+3|+4|+4|+8| Telekinetic Flight: Greater

14th|+14/+9/+4|+4|+4|+9| Martial Skill

15th|+15/+10/+5|+5|+5|+9| Disrupting Throw, Mind's Eye

16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+5|+5|+10| Telekinetic Fighting: Greater

17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+5|+5|+10| Ghostly Hand

18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+6|+6|+11| Critical Thinking

19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+6|+6|+11| Martial Skill, Singularity

20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+6|+6|+12| Master Of The Far Hand, Mind's Eye
[/table]

Class Skills

The Telekineticist's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are; Auto Hypnosis(Con), Balance(Dex), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Escape artist(Dex), Hide(Dex), Knowledge (Psionics)(Int), Open Lock(Dex), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Slight of hand(Dex), Spot(Wis), Tumble(Dex), Use Psionic Device(Cha), Use Rope(Dex), and Psicraft (Int).

Skill Points at First Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

Proficiencies: A Telekineticist is proficient with all Simple weapons and one martial melee weapon of their choice. They are also proficient with light and medium armor, and all shields.

Telekinetic Hands(SU): The Telekineticist has limited capability with his power. This capability is known as Telekinetic Hands, or just Hands. The Telekineticist has a number of Hands equal to 1 + 1/3 class levels + your Constitution modifier. These Hands have a range equal to 10ft/ class level.

If an ability that uses Hands requires a save, it has a DC of 10 + 1/2 class levels + charisma modifier. If they require a physical ability score (such as an opposed strength checks for a trip attempt), use the Charisma modifier instead. To use his Hands he must be psionically focused, although he does not expend his focus by doing so.

Any hand which is used for a non-sustained ability is considered used until the start of your next turn, and any hand used for a sustained ability is considered used until the ability is released.

Whenever you take an action with your hands, you may opt to instead make it a full round action. If you do so, you may use any other hand ability at the same time that has an equal or shorter action time at a cumulative -2 penalty for all rolls or saving throws involved in the actions per extra action taken.

For instance, Jimmy is a 12th level Telekineticist with 7 Hands, he chooses to use 3 of those hands to pick up weapons to aid in flanking with his friends (a standard action) and uses another 3 Hands to bullrush a closing pack of enemies (another standard action). He would have to make all attack and opposed rolls for each of these actions at an additional -2, because his attention is split between 2 different abilities. If he also wished to use his last hand to make a focused shield in this time, the penalties for multiple actions would increase to -4 to all rolls.

Mental Strength(SU): The Telekineticist can move an object with his mind, or perform some act of manual dexterity at any distance within the range of his Hands as a standard action.

Objects weighing up to 25lb/level/Hand may be maintained without limit.
Objects weighing up to 50lb/level/Hand as a heavy load freely at a rate of 30' per action
Objects weighing up to 100lb/level/Hand at a rate of 20' per action may be moved normally
Objects weighing up to 500lb/level/Hand at a rate of 10' per action may be pushed or dragged along the ground.
You may add additional Hands to increase the speed by 10' per Hand, this may not increase the speed past your fastest natural speed.

These movements are not limited in direction, but do have a limited duration. The Telekineticist can maintain pressure for up to wisdom modifier rounds, after that the object drops to the ground and the Telekineticist is fatigued for 1d4 rounds. You may not initiate this ability if you are fatigued. If you cease pressure, and do not use any ability requiring Telekinetic Hands for a full round, the duration you may keep this up is reset.

Creatures may be moved in this way, but they get a will save to negate the effects each round. Any movement from this ability provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. The Telekineticist may not use this ability on himself.

The Telekineticist can also perform a feat of manual dexterity anywhere within the maximum range of his powers. This manipulation is limited by the number of hands used. If you wish to do something which would require two physical hands to achieve (like tie a knot in some rope), then you must use at least 2 hands. No additional effect is had by using more Hands than necessary for any given action.

Force Blast(SU):As a standard action, the Telekineticist can launch a number of objects within the range of his Hands. Each object may weigh no more than 25lb/level, and requires the use of a single Hand/object. The object(s) travel up to 10ft/level and this movement may take it outside of the Hands range.

The Telekineticist makes a single standard ranged attack (in the case of multiple targets, this result is applied to each target separately), with a -2 penalty for each object thrown beyond the first. Each object deals bludgeoning or piercing damage (DM's choice) depending on it's weight up to 1d6/25lb. Regardless of the item launched, you do not take a non-proficiency penalty for this attack. Weapons launched with this power deal bludgeoning damage according to their weight unless you are proficient with them, at which point you may deal normal weapon damage (and damage type) instead. The object or weapon deals an additional +1d6 damage for each full 10ft of movement it had remaining when it hits. The critical threat of weapons used this way is 20/x2, only one roll need be made to confirm all attacks and criticals made with a single use of Force Blast. Any enchantments or abilities the weapon/s may have are applied individually. The keen enchantment, or any similar ability involving critical threat ranges does not apply. A flaming burst weapon would always consider it's threat range as 20/x2.

You may also focus this ability in an attempt to rip the target apart from the inside. As a standard action, you may attack one target with 1 blast per Hand you wish to use, or you may split up the targets per Hand you use.

The Telekineticist makes a single standard ranged touch attack (in the case of multiple targets, this result is applied to each target separately, with a -2 penalty for each target after the first). This attack deals 1D4/class level force damage and the target must succeed on a fortitude save or be nauseated for 1D4 rounds. This ability only functions within the range of your Hands. This ability effects objects.

You may not launch creatures with this ability.

Wild Talent: You gain the feat Wild Talent as a bonus feat.

Telekinetic Fighting(SU):

Least:
At 2nd level The Telekineticist may use Hands to wield weapons he is proficient with and fight within the range of his Hands. Any weapon wielded in this fashion may be moved up to 30ft in a round as a free action.

As a standard action, you may make a single melee attack with one such weapon, using Charisma instead of Strength for the to hit and damage rolls. You only threaten squares within your physical reach, if the weapon is beyond this range it does not threaten on it's own. A one-handed or smaller weapon requires one Hand and a two-handed weapon requires two Hands to use. Any weapon(s) held by your Hands may have additional Hands added to it, each increasing the damage by 1/2 charisma modifier.

The Telekineticist suffers -1 to hit for every 10ft increment between the weapon and The Telekineticist, and a -1 to damage for every 20ft increment between the weapon and The Telekineticist, to a maximum of the range of his Hands. He may maintain this effect for a number of rounds equal to his constitution score per encounter.

Lesser:
At 6th level you may make a full attack with the weapon(s) you are wielding with Telekinetic Fighting. You may not make more attacks than you could without your Telekinetic Hands, but you may spread your iterative attacks between weapons at no penalty, although the range penalty still applies. You may now hold a light or heavy shield with one Hand or a tower shield in two Hands. Such a shield may occupy any square including your own or those of your allies (but not an enemy's) and confers on anyone in that square the shield's AC bonus as a shield bonus to their own AC.

Improved:
As a standard action you may attack once with each weapon wielded by your Telekinetic Fighting. This is done with a single attack roll at your highest attack bonus, but takes a penalty to hit equal to the number of weapons being wielded -1.
You may wield a weapon of a larger size category than you normally could for your size. For every size category larger than normal, the weapon requires an additional Hand to wield, these Hands do not add extra damage, but you may add further Hands to do so.

The duration you may maintain this effect is removed.

Greater:
At 16th level you no longer take the distance penalties for the distance between you and your weapon, but you are still limited to the range of your Hands. Also, as a fullround action, you may attack with each weapon you hold with Hands up to the number of attacks granted from you BAB for each weapon plus any extra attacks granted from feats or weapon enchantments.

Telekinetic Reach(SU): At third level, any weapon you are wielding with your Telekinetic Fighting threatens adjacent squares as normal for a weapon of it's type. If the weapon has the reach quality then calculate accordingly.

Far Trick(SU):Starting at 4th lvl when your powers start to mature, you gain the ability to make specific types of attacks within the range of your Hands. These work as normal except Charisma is used instead of any physical score, and your size bonus (or penalty) does not apply to these checks.

Each ability initially receives a penalty of -1/10ft away from the target you are. Each ability requires one hand to activate.

At 4th level you may attempt to break down a door or bullrush an opponent.

At 6th level you may attempt disarm attempts against foes. The penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/20ft.

At 8th level you may attempt trip attempts against foes. The penalty for disarming is reduced to -1/20ft, and the penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/40ft.

At 10th level you may attempt to grapple foes. The penalty for tripping is reduced to -1/20ft, the penalty for disarming is reduced to -1/40ft, and the penalty for breaking down doors and bull rushing is reduced to -1/80ft.

Minds eye(SU): At 5th level, as a full round action you may gain blindsight out to half the range of your Hands until the end of your next turn. You must be psionically focused to do this.

At 10th level this increases to the full range of your Hands.

At 15th level you may maintain this ability indefinitely with one hand.

At 20th level this ability no longer requires a Hand to maintain and is always active (even when you are not psionically focused).

Martial Skill (EX): You may not be a fighter, but you understand weapons of war.

At 5th level you gain two additional martial weapon proficiencies of your choice.

At 9th level you gain two more additional martial weapon proficiencies of your choice.

At 14th level you gain one additional martial weapon proficiency and one additional exotic weapon proficiency of your choice.

At 19th level you gain two additional exotic weapon proficiencies of your choice.

Telekinetic Flight(SU): You have finally mastered moving yourself using your Hands. One Hand is required to initiate and sustain flight. If you reach the duration of the ability, you immediately descend directly downwards at a rate equal to the fly speed (taking falling damage if you fail to reach solid ground in this distance) and become fatigued for 1d4 rounds. You may not initiate this ability if you are fatigued If you cease flying, and do not use any ability requiring Telekinetic Hands for a full round, the duration you may keep this up is reset.

At 7th level, you may fly at a speed of 30ft with perfect maneuverability for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom modifier. You may keep this flight up indefinitely by using three hands.

At 11th level, your fly speed increases to 40ft and you may stay aloft for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom score. You only need two to keep this up indefinitely.

At 13th level, your fly speed increases to 60ft and may be sustained indefinitely with only one Hand.

Focused Shield(SU):At 9th level you may create a barrier with your Hands as a move action. Any unattended objects or projectiles (including spells which require an attack roll) are instantly stopped and cannot pass through. If a creature attempts to pass through, it suffers an immediate bullrush attack upon contact with the barrier, as if the barrier were a gargantuan creature (+12 size bonus) with a Strength score equal to your Charisma score. If the barrier wins the opposed check, the creature is pushed out of the wall in the direction it attempted to enter from. The wall cannot push the creature farther than 5ft from its edges (as the wall does not move with the creature). If the creature wins, it forces it's way through the barrier, causing it to disperse. You may form the barrier over a creature, in which case it is effected as though it had tried to pass though the wall (The creature is pushed towards the closest edge of the wall, or whatever direction is not facing you in case of a tie). If the creature is pushed/thrown into the wall, use the bullrush check of the creature/force that pushed them into the wall instead of the creature's if it is higher. You cannot form multiple barriers in the same square.

Any creature that attempts to pass through the barrier takes force damage equal to 1D6 +1/ class level. The barrier is a 10ft x 10ft pane, positioned as you please within Telekinesis range. You may create and maintain multiple barriers at once, and any number of barriers may be set as part of the same move action so long as you have enough hands free to create them. Each barrier (including the first) requires a hand to create and maintain.

You may augment this ability by investing additional hands, as described below:

You may increase the force with which the wall pushes creatures away. Each additional hand invested in this way increases the damage by 1d6 and adds an additional +2 bonus to its bullrush check. If this more powerful wall succeeds on a bullrush check by 10 or more the creature is knocked prone, and if it succeeds by 20 or more the creature is stunned for 1 round unless it makes a fort save (DC 10 + 1/2 class level + your charisma modifier).

You may invest 1 additional Hand to shape the Shield. All parts must be touching, but the barrier can otherwise take any shape you desire.

You may invest additional Hands to increase the size of the shield at a rate of 5'x5' per Hand. Thus with 1 extra Hand it is a 15'x15' pane, with 2 it becomes 20'x20' and so on.

Critical Thinking(EX): Starting at 11th level, you have learned how to wield a weapon in the most dangerous fashion.

At level 11 weapons with which you are proficient used in Force Blast get their normal critical threat range.

At level 18 all objects wielded with Telekinetic Hands get their normal threat range and are treated as though you had Improved Critical. You do not actually gain the feat, and it does not count for prerequisites. This ability stacks in the same way as the feat.

Ghostly Hand(SU): At 12th level, your abilities become capable of affecting ethereal objects and enemies. Objects thrown using Force Blast must be ethereal to do so, but weapons wielded using Telekinetic Fighting are treated as being both corporeal and ethereal from now on.

At 17th level all your abilities can effect creatures and objects from any coterminous planes.

Disrupting Throw(SU): At 15th level, as an immediate action, you may attempt an attack of opportunity against any opponent up to 5ft/class level away. They must have just taken an action which would provoke an attack of opportunity were you adjacent to them, but you need not be threatening the opponent. You may use your Force Blast ability, or any of the abilities you know through Far Trick. This counts towards your attacks of opportunity for the round.

Singularity(SU):As a standard action, you may draw enemies to a designated point. This point may effect any or all creatures (not objects, although undead are susceptible) within 30' of the center point.
To do so, you must use one Hand (the singularity) + one Hand per target (the gravity) and each target may not be more than 50lbs/level. Upon using this ability, you must make a ranged touch attack against the target to 'grab' them with a hand, then the target must succeed on a Fort save or be drawn to to point. You may use more Hands per target to increase the saves and weight limit for this ability at an additional +2 Fort DC per Hand used for the target and +50lbs/level per Hand used for the target.

If they get drawn to the point, they are held there until they can pass a Fort save with an added difficulty of +2 per additional target caught in the singularity.

Upon collision with another target at the center point, each target takes bludgeoning damage equal to 2d6/10' each target traveled. For example, there are 3 targets. 1 travels 20' 2 travels 10' and 3 travels 30'. Upon collision at the center they each take 6d6 bludgeoning damage.

For each round, on the start of their turn that they begin in the singularity, each target will take 5d6 crushing damage as the force holding them applies pressure. You may invest more hands in the singularity, to increase the damage they take by an addition 5d6/Hand.

Alternatively, you may make the field repel creatures. Doing this requires 1 Hand + 1 Hand/target. You may invest extra Hands per target to increase the save DCs by +2 for each extra Hand on a target as well as increase the distance thrown by the field by 10' per hand.

When targeted by the repulsion singularity, a creature must make a fort save to avoid being repulsed 30'. If they fail they cannot reenter the field until the ability is dropped. Once they have been repelled they must make a reflex save or take 5d6 +5d6/Hand invested in the damage.

Master Of The Far Hand(EX): At 20th level, you have reached the pinnacle of your mental power. Reality becomes an illusion which you can bend like putty, and many of your abilities are enhanced as follows:

All your class abilities are now considered Extraordinary.

Your Disrupting Throw becomes a free action, still taking up an attack of opportunity per use. It may also be used anywhere within your Telekinesis range.

Your flight speed increases to 120ft.

You no longer take range penalties to your far tricks.

You no longer take range penalties to your Telekinetic Fighting.

The Telekinetic Hands gained through class levels and feats is doubled from this point on.

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ACFs:

Pure Telekineticist.

Replaces: Martial Skill, Telekinetic Fighting, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Telekinetic Reach, and Critical Thinking.

Benefit:The number of Hands you have is increased to 1 Hand/Class Level. The range of your telekinesis increases to 20ft/level.


Unarmed Telekineticist

Replaces: Martial Skill, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Medium Armor Proficiency, ability to wield weapons not generated by this ACF with Telekinetic Fighting.

Benefit: You may generate weapons of pure force to use in place of normal weapons for your Telekinetic Fighting. You may generate as many as you would like at the rate of at least 1 Hand/Weapon as a move action. It also takes a move action to add or remove Hands from the weapons. All invested Hands apply to the damage dice as well as the bonus modifier.

These deal damage equal to 1d6/Hand force damage. They gain a bonus to hit and to damage equal to 1/2*Charisma Modifier*(Invested Hands + 1) maximum Hands invested in a single weapon are equal to your class levels. These are treated as weapons the Telekineticist is proficient with for all purposes. Their critical range begins at 20/x2. This increases to 20/x3 at 11th level, and to 19-20/x3 at 16th.

At 4th level these weapons are treated as magical for the purposes of overcoming DR. At 10th level they are also considered to be cold iron and silver for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction. Finally, at 16th level they are also considered to be adamantine for the purposes of damage reduction.

These weapons may take any color and whatever weapon shape you chose, but this has no mechanical effect.




TK SAVANT ACF
Whereas the psion and the wilder have learned to hone their minds into weapons capable of manifesting their merest whim, many Telekineticists find they are too specialised to manifest in the truest sense. Some few discover instead how to mimic the effects of certain powers through manipulation of their Hands. These few are known as Telekineticist Savants.

Change the Telekineticist's BAB to average progression (like a cleric). You are not as martially minded as other Telekineticists, but your understanding of your powers stretch to the abstract far more than most.

Warp Reality
Replaces: Medium Armour Proficiency, Martial Skill, Critical Thinking.
At 1st level you start to gain a number of Psi-Like abilities as you progress, determined by which discipline you choose to follow (listed below). Each ability requires a number of hands to be used, equal to the level of the power simulated. Hands used this way are considered used until the beginning of your next turn. Your manifester level is equal to your class level, and any saves run off your Charisma modifier.
1st level. Level 1 power, usable 3+ con modifier times per day.
3rd level. Level 2 power, usable 2+ con modifier times per day.
5th level. Level 3 power, usable 1+ con modifier times per day.
7th level. Level 4 power, usable con modifier times per day.
9th level. Level 5 power, usable con modifier -1 times per day.

Power Overwhelming
Replaces: Far Trick
At 4th level you gain the ability to augment your Warp Reality with additional hands. Each additional hand counts as 2 power points for this purpose. You begin being able to use only 1 additional hand in this way. You may use another additional hand for every 4 levels thereafter (2 extra at 8th, 3 at 12th, etc, to a maximum of 5 additional hands at 20th.)

Master of the Far Hand
Remove this line from the ability:
"You no longer take range penalties to your far tricks."
Add this line to the ability:
You always count as using at least two extra hands to augment your Warp Reality abilities, even if you chose not to spend additional hands to do so (so if you were to augment with 2 extra hands, you would count as having used 4 extra hands instead, if you choose not to augment at all, you still count as having done so with 2 hands.)

Below are listed the discipline power lists, you must select one at 1st level, and may never change this choice. If a power uses your Intelligence for a calculation, replace it with your Charisma. If a power requires a touch attack, you may use a Hand to deliver it at a range of 5ft/class level, as long as you have one free. Each discipline grants a class skill and another ability (much like a Cleric's domain)

The Beast (Psychometabolism)
Add Knowledge (Nature) and Survival to the Telekineticist's list of class skills.

1st level power. Thicken Skin
2nd level power. Animal Affinity
3rd level power. Hustle
4th level power. Metamorphosis
5th level power. Psychofeedback

Claws of The Beast
At 5th level you gain the ability to use your Hands to make claws. As a move action you may use a Hand to gain a natural claw attack with which you are automatically proficient. You may invest additional hands for extra damage to a maximum of 1/4 class levels (so you begin with only one Hand for the claw, but may add a second at Telekineticist level 8). The claw attack deals damage equal to 1D6/Hand + Charisma AND Strength modifier.


The Traveller (Psychoportation)
Add Knowledge (The Planes) to the Telekineticist's list of class skills.

1st level power. Detect Teleportation
2nd level power. Dimension Swap
3rd level power. Astral Caravan
4th level power. Psionic Dimensional Anchor
5th level power. Psionic Teleport

Group Mentality
At 5th level you gain the ability to manifest the power Astral Traveler at will as a move action. This requires the use of one Hand which is used until the end of your turn. You may touch multiple targets with the same move action (1 Hand/target), as long as you have enough Hands to do so.



The Mentalist (Telepathy)
Add Bluff to the Telekineticist's list of class skills.

1st level power. Psionic Charm
2nd level power. Psionic Suggestion
3rd level power. Hostile Empathic Transfer
4th level power. Psionic Dominate
5th level power. Mind Probe

Mind's Eye
Your Mind's eye ability gains the following enhancement:
You may improve your Mind's Eye ability with the use of an additional hand. You gain the effects of the Read Thoughts power with 2 differences:
The area becomes that of your Mind's Eye ability.
Creatures with an intelligence of 26 or higher (and at least 10 points higher than your own intelligence score) no longer stun you if they are read. Instead, you simply cannot comprehend the thoughts you read and therefore gain no effect for the purposes of these creatures.

The Augur (Clairsentience)
Add Gather Information to the Telekineticist's list of class skills.

1st level power. Precognition
2nd level power. Clairvoyant Sense
3rd level power. Fate Link
4th level power. Remote Viewing
5th level power. Clairtangent Hand (except as follows);
1. This emulates one of your Hands, not the Far Hand power.
2. When you augment this power, it allows you to make a Force Blast or Mental Strength action (not telekinetic force, maneuver or thrust) with the clairtangent hand, as if it were a Hand within your TK range.

Pre-emptive Defences
At 5th level The Augur gains the ability as a move action to 'reserve' a number of his hands up to 1/4 class level. You may reserve these hands until you next sleep, and as long as they are reserved they may not be used for any other abilities, releasing a hand from this ability is a move action. For as long as you have at least one Hand reserved, you gain a +2/hand reserved as an insight bonus to reflex saves and AC.





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Magic Items


Miniature Boulder:

This item is very useful to a Telekineticist. It has the dimensions of a marble, and weighs much the same.
As a move action (or free action with the quick draw feat) the marble can be activated. After its activation, the marble can be made to weigh up to 500lb, always growing to a foot diameter sphere. Another move action is required to reduce it back down to marble size.

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Feats:


Look Ma, more hands!(General)

Requirements: Telekineticist 1st level only.
Benefit: For some reason, you have more hands than other Telekineticists, maybe you're just greedy like that...
You have extra hands equal to 1/5 Telekineticist levels (minimum of 1) in addition to the number listed on The Telekineticist class table.
Special: This feat may only be taken once and only at 1st character level.


Enhanced Discipline

Requirements: Level 1 Telekineticist with the TK Savant ACF
Benefits: You gain a +1 bonus to your psi-like abilities' save DCs, and their durations improve by 50%. You also gain an additional benefit depending upon which discipline you follow, as listed below:
The Beast: You gain scent
The Mentalist: You gain telepathy (limited to your TK range)
The Traveller: You gain fast movement (+10ft to all base speeds)
You must be psionically focused to gain these effects.
Special: This feat may only be taken at first level.


TK Focus

Requirements: Telekinetic Hands class feature, must chose one of the following abilities; Mental Strength, Force Blast, Far Trick
Benefit: You may use the chosen ability as a move action a number of times per day equal to your constitution modier. You may not do so more than once per round.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times, each time it applies to a new ability.


TK Specialisation

Requirements: TK Focus, Telekineticist level 4+
Benefits: The penalty taken when combining your TK Focus ability with another action as part of a full round action is reduced to -1, but only for the chosen ability. You may use extra hands with your TK Focus ability to gain a bonus to any damage and opposed rolls at a rate of +2/additional hand, these extra hands are considered used until the end of the action.
Special: This feat may be taken multiple times, each time it applies to a new ability for which you have TK Focus


TK Supremacy

Requirements: TK Focus, TK Specialisation, Telekineticist level 12+
Benefits: The ability for which you have TK Specialisation and Focus is now considered a move action to use. You may use it as a swift action a number of times per day equal to your constitution modifier. You may not do so more than once per round.
Special: This feat may be taken multiple times, each time it applies to a new ability for which you have TK Specialisation.

Turalisj
2012-03-08, 05:12 PM
To be fair, there's a lot of odd math you have to do to figure out all the benefits from the class abilities :smalltongue:

For epic abilities, at least with the unarmed TK, I suggest having the weapons counted as Epic for the purposes of DR.

DerTollUdo
2012-03-08, 05:19 PM
Suggested edits reasoning:
Pure TK shouldn't be getting Critical Thinking because it doesn't have TK Fighting!
Unarmed TK shouldn't be able to use TK Fighting with normal weapons, and as such shouldn't be able to use them like that at all (you can still use weapons with force blast of course!). Gave them a critical boost because otherwise they gain no beneift from their main weapon with Critical Thinking, so now they gain a late (levels 11-18) progression to try and keep up with all those pesly party members who have actual corporeal weapons to enchant! Similar reasoning led me to add in their anti-DR progression.

On a related note, why shouldn't we take out this: 1/2*Charisma Modifier*(Invested Hands + 1), and replace it with the faaaaar simpler and yet reasonable: Charisma modifier *(1/2 Invested Hands). It's a simplification (needed) and also a slight nerf which I think they may need if we are to give them the anti-DR and critical progressions (which make them a far more rounded combatant imo)

Also, The Augur is sat outside the Savant spoiler dude, just noticed!

I'm all up for putting a link to your current summation of the class + extras, PM bob with the link and ask him to copy/paste to the top of his post, probably better than putting it into the class post itself.

Did the changes and fixes. As to cha*1/2 Hands...at 5 Hands in, it switches bonus from 5d6+30 to 5d6+25. assuming cha +10 Ok, simpler and not too drastic. I'll add it in. I have the link in the post so that when Bob copies it, it will go onto the front page.


Unarmed TK doesn't seem that effective with the rewrites.... Compare every other damage dealer at 20th level.

Ok. We will. Assuming a power stat of +10. A normal fighter gets +~30 to hit 1-2dx+30ish with PA and two hands against a single target.

We get +40 to hit (assuming only two hands) and 2d6+20 to hit. Now damage wise, we might do a little less. But we can do that to 14 targets (with a con of +5 and the feat) with a full attack each. Our emphasis is control, not nukes. But if you really wanted the strongest weapon he could make 20d6+110 with a to hit of 130. But at that point he can't do much else and is gonna get squished.


These guys, at level 20, threaten just about everything and anything within a 200ft radius, and can strike disparate targets anywhere within this range, usually simultaneously... if we scaled up damage to be on par with just a one-handed specialist, we'd OP them to the nine hells and back as a result. These guys are battlefield control experts, they just happen to be able to hurt things a lot whilst doing this!

See above.


What classes were you thinking about?

Even unoptimzed (no con, cha of 20 at lvl 20) he has 7 hands. If all of those are invested into one weapon you'd still have:
+40 attack bonus (+20 BAB, +20 (4xchamod))
7d6+20 damage at full iteratives.

Keep in mind, this is absolutely unoptimized, just as written.

Your Hand calculations are wrong. You forgot the capstone doubling. Should we have it also double those from con?


I didn't know you added 4*cha mod to your attack >.>

Still, you'd be doing about 1d6+5 damage with a single hand invested. :smallconfused:

Single Hand investment would be: 1d6+7 but then you could do that 14 different full attacks (Using stats from Re'ozul).

You get to add cha to hit and damage as per TK Fighting. Then when using these weapons, you get a bonus of .5*cha mod*Hands to hit and damage.

Sparked a thought, are these weapons Weapon Focusable? If so they need a general name...

Turalisj
2012-03-08, 05:31 PM
General problem with this class: Too. Much. Math. :smalleek:

DerTollUdo
2012-03-08, 05:42 PM
Because Wizards are so straight forward...

Turalisj
2012-03-08, 05:45 PM
With a wizard, you don't have half a dozen class abilities to work with. I think that's part of the problem I have understanding the class.

DerTollUdo
2012-03-08, 05:58 PM
With a wizard, you have just a few dozen spells that each reshape the world and each one requires a different understanding of the deep parts of the rules.

This is just a few class abilities that stand alone. All mechanics and equations are within the class. None are really that complicated...but then again, I realize that brewing takes a solid understanding of the rules so my judgement may be biased.

But this is unproductive. Do you have any thoughts so far on the class? Or things you would like to see the class be able to do?

bobthe6th
2012-03-08, 06:42 PM
to be fair, the mechanics are embedded in the class. most classes with complex abilities in standard books spin the explanation into 100 page spell descriptions. takes a bit of a read(note my laze fair mode at the moment...)

Veklim
2012-03-09, 10:30 AM
Should we have it also double those from con?


I don't think that's needed at all. Besides, even at epic levels, doubling the effective bonus from any Con pumping kit is perhaps a little excessive, they get 14+Con (+10 with the feat) at 20th already, that's enough I think!


With a wizard, you don't have half a dozen class abilities to work with. I think that's part of the problem I have understanding the class.

In all fairness, aside from the fact that a 20th level wizard has a minimum of 62 spells known at 20th level (assuming 14 intelligence to start with and not a single scribed spell outside of the ones gained from a new level), they also have to understand the interconnected mechanics of spellcasting itself. The TK has everything it needs right there in front of you, the only choices you need make are which ability to use, and they have less of those than a monk. Even if you take one of the Savant ACFs, you still only have 5 powers to keep track of, and it replaces Far Trick so your number of options is actually almost exactly the same either way.

I can see how this would look slightly intimidating to anyone not entirely comfortable with arithmetic (since it's not really maths, just a bit of multiplication and addition really) because the class is actually pretty substantial, but bob hit the nail on the head here:

to be fair, the mechanics are embedded in the class. most classes with complex abilities in standard books spin the explanation into 100 page spell descriptions.

What we're trying to present here is a strong Tier 3 blaster/field control expert with enough variety (through feats, ACFs and class adaptability) to stay interesting to play. There's a reason there isn't much of anything in any of the books which does this, because it's surprisingly hard to find the fulcrum between effectiveness and game balance. Either you end up with a class full of abilities and little utility/choice, or you end up with a spellcaster. We didn't want either of these things.

As the class is presented right now, it is capable of making itself VERY effective in combat, but it's most effective as part of a group. The fighters and rogues of the world would love to have someone like this as an ally, because they can make the most of their own abilities, mages may feel a bit hard done by at first, but once they realise they can now focus on dangerous targets instead of feeling they have to use every AoE, status changing and lockdown spell in their repertoire for battlefield control, they'll grow to love the TK too.

Playing a TK for the first time would be a steep learning curve, but no steeper than playing a fullcaster for the first time (significantly less so in my opinion). The 'maths problem' isn't as big as you seem to imagine, once you know the basics of each ability they're actually quite intuitive to increase. I dunno if you've ever played a high level optimised build, but the amount of arithmetic concerned in doing so is generally on a par with the TK, we just gave you more options within each ability, not really any more work.

@DerTollUdo:
Mental Strength reads 500lb/level/hand for dragging, it should be 250lb/level/hand (5x heavy load)

OK, finally, here's the last of the Savant disciplines. I've decided not to do a psychokinesis entry because hey, they already do that stuff better than anyone, adding more by taking away Far Trick seems like MS PHD to me (More of the Same, Piled Higher & Deeper). Just feels pointless!

So, finally (again) here's
The Maker

Add Knowledge (Engineering) to the Telekineticist's list of class skills.

1st level power. Astral Construct
2nd level power. Psionic Repair Damage
3rd level power. Ectoplasmic Cocoon
4th level power. Psionic Fabricate
5th level power. Hail of Crystals

Constructive Hands
At 5th level The Maker learns to turn his Hands into finely crafted tools, to astonishing results. Whenever The Maker makes a Craft check, he may use a number of Hands equal to 1/2 class levels, always 2 at a time (so 2, 4, 6, etc), henceforth called a 'Pair' to simulate a duplicate of himself for the work. This ability has 3 effects:

1. Gain a cumulative +2 bonus to your Craft check results for each Pair you invested in the Crafting check.
2. Multiply your Craft check result by 1+ Pairs you have invested in the check.
This may be used in conjunction with Craft (Sculpture) for the purposes of creating astral constructs and for Craft checks involving Psionic Fabricate, but has no effect on the time it takes to manifest the powers.
3. At 9th level, when you gain the Focused Shield ability, you also gain the ability to shape your shields in a new way. By using 2 equally sized shields, you may create a hemisphere which has a radius equal to the size of the panes making it (i.e. two 10x10 panes would create a 10ft radius hemisphere). You may enlarge the hemisphere with additional Pairs at a rate of +5ft radius/Pair invested. The hemisphere counts as a single shield when adding extra hands for increased damage and bullrush checks.

DerTollUdo
2012-03-09, 11:18 AM
Ok, I thought it was 10x heavy lol. My bad.

And I guess they don't need that many extra Hands, but I can see them wanting that many lol.

As for the maker, I don't understand what you mean by the ability with the shields. Reword that and once it is clearer I will add it to the post.

Veklim
2012-03-09, 01:07 PM
Fair enough, gonna change it now, decided that's a bit much anyhow, on a second look through. Have another idea, should suffice methinks, still pretty rockin'....

Constructive Hands
At 5th level The Maker learns to turn his Hands into finely crafted tools, to astonishing results. Whenever The Maker makes a Craft check, he may use a number of Hands equal to 1/2 class levels, always 2 at a time (so 2, 4, 6, etc), henceforth called a 'Pair' to simulate a duplicate of himself for the work. This ability has 3 effects:
1. Gain a cumulative +2 bonus to your Craft check results for each Pair you invested in the Crafting check.
2. Multiply your Craft check result by 1+ Pairs you have invested in the check.
This may be used in conjunction with Craft (Sculpture) for the purposes of creating astral constructs and for Craft checks involving Psionic Fabricate, but has no effect on the time it takes to manifest the powers.
3. At 9th level, when you gain the Focused Shield ability, you also gain the ability to shape your shields in a new way. By using 2 equally sized shields, you may create a hemisphere which has a radius equal to the size of the panes making it (i.e. two 10x10 panes would create a 10ft radius hemisphere). You may enlarge the hemisphere with additional Pairs at a rate of +5ft radius/Pair invested. The hemisphere counts as a single shield when adding extra hands for increased damage and bullrush checks.

Re'ozul
2012-03-09, 02:56 PM
I like the maker, the increase is noticable and can actually help to earn money.

The hemisphere option is a lot better than the breakdown version, mostly because the latter could have been insane.

Breakdown version; lvl 20 pure tele: 40 hands
Allows for one pane of 205'x205'. Thats 1681 individual 5'x5' panes. Since 4 of those make the 10'x10' shield that would come to a maximum of 420 individual shields he could create...who needs the maze spell.

Veklim
2012-03-09, 04:03 PM
I like the maker, the increase is noticable and can actually help to earn money.
That was the point, I was wary of making such a big deal over some Crafting improvements, but I thought it gave a really strong handhold on an otherwise slippery niche (making Crafts pay enough to be worthwhile!).

The hemisphere option is a lot better than the breakdown version...
I looked through the numbers and figured it gave a good improvement on what you could do, without being too exploitable as a consequence.

Breakdown version; lvl 20 pure tele: 40 hands
Allows for one pane of 205'x205'. Thats 1681 individual 5'x5' panes. Since 4 of those make the 10'x10' shield that would come to a maximum of 420 individual shields he could create...who needs the maze spell.

Although you can't actually take Pure TK & Savant at the same time (they both replace martial skill and critical thinking, can't have them both!), I still agree with you that the breakdown concept was a little flawed, hehehe. :smallredface: At least they were breakdown to 10'x10', still broken but not so badly!

DerTollUdo
2012-03-09, 09:47 PM
Alright, added Maker to the table.
Now, to help us get a sense of balance I propose a thought experiment.
Build a character at let's say level 5 10 15 and 20. Then figure out how you approach these following combat scenarios.

You and your party are surprised, your wizard is caught between buffs and gets caught up defending himself and cannot help. Your other physical heavies get their targets, and cant really help you. You are left with a handful of enemies to deal with by yourself. Lets say 3 then 6, 9, and 12. All of them are melee heavies.
Ill add more later. Just put up how you would go about it, round by round isnt needed unless you want.

Veklim
2012-03-10, 05:18 PM
OK guys, gonna get a couple of my DM friends round tomorrow after work and try some playtesting with these guys. In the meantime, does anyone know of anyone who does playtesting for people? I'm working multiple random extended/split shifts 6 days a week just now, so finding time is often a hassle just now, the help would be VERY much appreciated.

Just as a thought, should we test just the base class first, then make sample level 10s of the ACFs to compare?

Either way, Humans and Strongheart Halflings are gonna have a ball, because they can actually take both of the 1st level only feats, as long as they take a Savant ACF...that could potentially be rather devastating, especially if they're using The Maker (enough hands to make a dome within a dome)!

Also:

Alright, added Maker to the table.
I don't see it, and the Unarmed TK hasn't been updated with the Cha + (1/2 hands) thing either, unless I'm looking in the wrong place...?!

bobthe6th
2012-03-10, 06:09 PM
well... if the base class is broken, the AFCs will need to change to fit a fix...

Veklim
2012-03-10, 06:55 PM
Good point, well taken. Base class first it is sir! :smallbiggrin:

I'm planning on using my pet DMs to run small groups to work as allies and enemies, and we can all monitor the TK whilst I play it. I'll be taking notes, not minutes, but if anything of import happens I shall endeavour to report with some detail. Not sure how much I'll have time to do tomorrow, but I'll certainly have something for you by Monday sometime!

DerTollUdo
2012-03-10, 08:12 PM
Maker is on the list. Check post 146 thats where I keep updating. Saves me time of always copy pasting. As for UA the change for bonus isnt changed because I hadnt found a good fix yet. Now I have.
Seperate to hit and damage. Make to hit bonus of +1 per Hand make damage bonus gone but stay at 1d6 per Hand. We had been forgetting that you already add cha to hit and damage from tk fighting. I feel this brings it in line while still making it viable. Thoughts?
Also, Bob, the most updated version is post 146, it even has a link in it that you can put in the first post so people can find it if you get swamped again.

bobthe6th
2012-03-10, 09:10 PM
up blahblahblah

DerTollUdo
2012-03-11, 02:05 PM
Cool. Thanks Bob.

So thoughts on the UA change? And anyone want to even attempt my thought experiment? Should I change the scenario?

Re'ozul
2012-03-11, 02:33 PM
UA change is okay.

I won't actually build a full character but here is my take on the level 5 character, vanilla telekineticist.

Assuming base 16 cha, 14 con, 14 dex with +2 items in cha and con.

Strongheart Halfling
Combat reflexes (total 4 AoO)
spiked chain expertise

Total number of hands: 5

What you have:
- Mental Strenght
- Force Blast
- Far Trick (Bullrush only)
- Telekinetic Fighting

Enemies: 3
Nominal hp of enemies: probably around 50hp at most

Viable options:
1) use 2 hands to keep up 2 spiked chains in two squares adjacent to and diagonal through yours. This gives you a total trip capability. However, it'll only allow one trip attempt before the enemy is upon you if the enemy is smart. 4 chains work better, but cut deeply into your hand budget.
Whatever hands you have over, you can use to blast the enemy either with rocks (if you only have 1 hand left) or the touch version (if you have more).
The touch blast does 5d4 now, so a hit with 3 of them (at +3 attack bonus) could deeply cut into one enemy. The rock version is even better if you have easy access to heavy things.
2) depending on the enemy's mass you can just float them away with mental strenght. Your DC is now 16 so CR5 grunts should be reasonably susceptible. Your strongest weapon is force blast again though.

Honestly I can see the spiked chain version far better. Its also one of the things that makes telekinetic fighting a lot more useful.

DerTollUdo
2012-03-11, 03:38 PM
Thank you. Thats really what I was looking for, not full chars. Just the ideas of what would or could be done since I feel that is better for balancing.
So it seems that at level 5, 3 enemies isn't really that big of a threat. I wonder where the line is between handling well, overpowering, and losing to will lie...

Re'ozul
2012-03-11, 03:58 PM
Well, at first I was wondering how the lvl 5 character (no good far tricks, no shields) would hold out. Spiked chain coverage is kind of a dirty trick.

Normal chain-tripper is somewhat annoying for a DM. This guy can wield multiple chains.

Later he can probably out-chain a chain-devil.

Veklim
2012-03-11, 04:45 PM
Currently running full test on standard and unarmed builds, will run through a couple of combat encounters at 5th, 10th & 15th over the next few days. Results pending...

Will do other ACFs if this goes well!

DerTollUdo
2012-03-12, 10:57 AM
I look forward to hearing your results. My game was unfortunately cancelled yesterday so I have no new playtesting till next sunday.

Re'ozul
2012-03-12, 01:16 PM
level 10 thoughts:

Vanilla Telekineticist needs as many hands as he can get, so assuming stat increases are put in constitution:
Still strongheart halfling.

Relevant base stats: dex 16, con 16, cha 16
Probable items: +2 dex, +4 con, +4 cha
Results: normal attack modifier +15, 8 hands, 5 AoOs/rd, base save DC 20

Enemies: 6 brutes of maybe 80-100hp, good fort, bad will

Battle becomes easier the lower hp and the larger enemies (bottleneck problem)

Easiest Strategy in my mind:

First Round: Standard to put up the good old spiked chains, move to create 2 shields that face the enemy at your front (should look like this)
C=Chains
_= shields
T=Telekineticist

lots of enemies here


X__XXX__
XXXCXC
XXXXT
XXXCXC

Enemies have to walk around shields to get to you making it less likely they can strike you this first round.
Chains should be okay for tripping. If you want to reduce potential damage use, fullround action in this first round to do all that and throw either two far tricks (trip probably) or better two force based blasts. Its a fort-save, but with a DC 20 you can still get lucky reasonably often.
Second round just keep supporting the chains, reposition shields based on most pressing enemiy and keep blasting with your standard.

Alternatively you could just take flight, but that has the possibility of the enemies going after your comrades in the event they can't fly.

Veklim
2012-03-12, 05:41 PM
Standard TK tests

OK, two level 10 builds, one with LM,MH! and con+4/wis+3, and one without LM,MH! and con+3/wis+4. The one with the feat had no trouble in normal CR encounters, with and without a party (1 fighter, 1 rogue, 1 sorceror for both). Far Trick and Force Blast were used to pick out individual threats quite effectively, TK fighting helped keep the fighter and rogue (especially the rogue) effective, and the sorceror could buff and pick off targets much easier not having to worry about enemy movements so much (he hid behind the TK and avoided most damage as a result). The one without the feat had slightly more trouble being individually effective AND threatening with TK fighting, but found a more direct (Force Blast mostly) approach made him an effective heavy hitter, either hiding behind a shield or the fighter (for single and group combat respectively).

The number of hands you have is a huge part of the class (and rightly so) but it's not actually the be-all-end-all. The TK with less hands had to use (perversely) slightly more aggressive strategies, whereas the one with more hands could sit back a bit and play the defensive game far more effectively. They both held up nicely though, and made me think outside the box with a couple of encounters, just to try and test them to breaking point. The thing they dislike the most is heavy, high HP enemies, because their caster-like approach to combat and lack of SoD/SoS abilities forces them to win the old fashioned way. I found them solid Tier 3s for combat options, but outside of combat may be a different matter, we shall have to wait and see.

Unarmed TK tests

Two level 10 builds, one with TK Focus and Spec in Force Blast & Con+3/Wis+4, on with TK Focus and Spec in Far Trick & Con+4/Wis+3, both with LM,MH! The Force Blaster played most combat as a case of managing abilities and movement to stay healthy, but the Far Tricker was amazing. He was locking down enemies with weaponised hands, then bullrushing and/or disarming them and finishing them off, usually 2 at a time, with a spare hand in lieu for emergency shielding. An incredibly nice, but mostly overlooked aspect of Unarmed is the way you can have weapons appear almost instantly, wherever you want them, within TK range. On 3 occasions, a group of archers/ranged enemies were set upon from behind in the same round they opened fire, when the TK noticed their volley and manifested weaponised hands right behind them.

The Unarmed TK notices a loss of hands slightly more than the standard model. Shields were used much more with these guys, partly due to the previous set of tests and the resultant playtester learning curve, but partly because when you can have a weapon wherever you need it as a move action, you can focus more on defensive movements and strategic Far Trick usage (which one of them excelled with, btw).

Further Analysis

Now my 2 willing playtesters have the idea of the TK, I'm taking them back to level 5 for some early game testing. Then we'll go for 15th level testing to see how the progressions hold up. The feats make Force Blast and Far Trick potent utility weapons, no data for Mental Strength yet, still pending next session. Pure and Savant pending tests, Pure soon, Savant after. Will test effectiveness of Enhanced Discipline but must update that first for The Augur and The Maker, since they didn't exist (in text at least) when I wrote the feat...:smallredface:

bobthe6th
2012-03-12, 08:16 PM
wow, numbers pulled out of the air seem to be working. any major problems balance wise?

Veklim
2012-03-13, 03:37 AM
wow, numbers pulled out of the air seem to be working. any major problems balance wise?

These guys are powerful on the battlefield, they have options galore in comparison to many classes, but nothing seems game-breaking to me yet.

DerTollUdo
2012-03-13, 10:54 AM
I really like the tests you have been doing. Ill see if it gets broken at the high end of power when I can lol.

Re'ozul
2012-03-13, 01:57 PM
Okay, I have to ask something that still confuses me about force blast.

Lets say I want to use the actual force based version.
My normal attack bonus is +10
If I now throw 3 of them (against one target or several) and roll a 15:

Is the total attack roll:
First beam 25, second 23, third 21

or

all beams: 21

EDIT: Also, the capstone says "doubles hands ... from here on". Does this mean you only get double the amount when going int o epic or is it actually retroactive (what i thought).

Turalisj
2012-03-13, 03:32 PM
Alright, can someone help me build a Telekinetic at level 22 for pathfinder?

Veklim
2012-03-13, 05:46 PM
@ Turalisj, yes, all I need is a complete rundown of Pathfinder first...I don't know it, sorry!

@ Re'ozul, firstly you only make 1 attack roll and apply it to all targets, hence they'd all be at 21, because there's only 1 roll to modify!
Secondly, your hands increase retroactively, from class levels and feats, but you don't get doubled con modifier as well.

@ DerTollUdo, could you add the following to Enhanced Discipline:

The Augur: Add your Charisma modifier as a bonus to your initiative checks
The Maker: Add your Constitution modifier to the hardness of any item you make.

Turalisj
2012-03-13, 05:51 PM
Well, Pathfinder is pretty easy. And the epic level is a lot simpler than 3.5's wacky system. There are some skills merged, you get bonuses for sticking with a class, and you get feats at every odd level rather than every 3rd.

Wouldn't happen to have AIM, would you?

DerTollUdo
2012-03-13, 11:10 PM
Alright, added your new lines to the feat, and clarified the capstone.

Anyone got any thoughts about Prcs? Or how we will handle epic?

bobthe6th
2012-03-13, 11:26 PM
got a puppet master prc idea I've been holding onto until edits level out(take TK fighting, and make minions...)
a pure telikenteisist Prc might also do well

DerTollUdo
2012-03-14, 01:04 PM
I feel like as things are, we have reached a solid level of balance. We probably won't be doing anymore big edits to the class itself. Unless someone else finds a gaping hole of brokeness lol. So go ahead and put up the idea for your Prc. The only edits we would probably be making would be to the ACFs, also we need more feats.

The option to have the class be option based is still something I would want to explore, but I feel like we don't have enough options to make it happen. We need more class ideas. Anyone got any?

DerTollUdo
2012-03-15, 10:50 PM
So, I was rereading the class, and found a problem. In the capstone it mentions removing the TK Fighting penalties but we already removed those in a revamp. Should we make it add some kind of bonus instead?

Also made some clarifications to Force Blast and Far Trick. Check them over would you?

Veklim
2012-03-16, 09:56 AM
How about this:
Any weapon you weild with TK Fighting is considered one size category larger than it actually is for purposes of damage and any special attacks you make (like disarming or tripping foes).

You missed this from Far Trick:
This requires a standard action and 1 Hand to use (in the case of multiple targets, you require 1 Hand/target, with a -2 penalty to all rolls for each target after the first).

Put it at the end of the first paragraph.

Everything else looks good to me dude. More playtesting results after Sunday sometime btw. Have a 3rd guin......willing participant.

DerTollUdo
2012-03-16, 10:20 AM
Ill add those in when I get back to a comp, it's hard to edit that huge post on my phone lol.
On a note about the -2 for multiple targets. Does it mean that if you focus fire on one target you get no penalty?

Oh! Also have a feat idea or class option. Excuse the lack of formatting since I'm on my phone.

Anchoring Shield
Prerequisites:?
Benefit: When a target is completely surrounded by Focused Shield, either multiple or one shaped to fit, they are considered dimensionally anchored.

Thoughts?

Veklim
2012-03-16, 10:26 AM
Ill add those in when I get back to a comp, it's hard to edit that huge post on my phone lol.Know the feeling, posted the Savant ACFs from my phone. It took HOURS!

On a note about the -2 for multiple targets. Does it mean that if you focus fire on one target you get no penalty?Yes, yes it does.


Oh! Also have a feat idea or class option. Excuse the lack of formatting since I'm on my phone.

Anchoring Shield
Prerequisites:?
Benefit: When a target is completely surrounded by Focused Shield, either multiple or one shaped to fit, they are considered dimensionally anchored.

Thoughts?Nice. Even better for a Maker....oooh, thoughts emerging.....will post later when they become coherant.

Re'ozul
2012-03-16, 10:46 AM
Wait,, what is this about focus fire?

Veklim
2012-03-16, 11:20 AM
Wait, what is this about focus fire?
All the abilities which take -2 per additional target do only that. The more targets you add, the more penalties you get, the more abilities you cram into a round, the more penalties you get, ergo; all hands, one shot, no penalties. If you take all your hands and throw them at one ability and one target only, you can properly decimate them, but you can then do little-to-nothing else in the round. It's all about the options! :smallwink:

Re'ozul
2012-03-16, 02:03 PM
Honestly, I don't consider that to be a good idea, especially with my one remaining grouse of force blast.

Consider the good old bog standrad character that has probably 8 hands by level 10.
A force based blast with all hands against a big bruiser enemy (dragon, huge construct etc) would, if i understand this correctly, mean:
You get 8 attacks at full BAB (all using the same attack roll) against the big bruiser doing a total of 80d4 force damage and prompting 8 Fort saves against nauseate. Thats an average of 200damage.

I was under the impression that using multiple blasts is the factor that creates the -2 (basically a cumulative -2 to the attack roll for each blast more than one) so that it would be slightly balanced. With focus fire, force blast just isn't balanced.

Veklim
2012-03-18, 07:29 AM
yeesh, you're right dude.

OK, it should be reading -2 per additional attack then.

DerTollUdo
2012-03-18, 03:02 PM
Ok, I added that line to Far Trick. Also changed the wording a little bit (called ability trick instead so it can be more easily differentiated), changed all (hopefully, check for me eh?) -2 for multiple uses parts to be worded so they effect all after the first so no super nuking single targets, removed Disable Device from skills because it really has no reason to be there..., and made a slightly bigger change:

The ability of Hands to use multiple abilities as a full round action was a little broken. We were basically getting free actions at a -2 bonus. That is a problem. But since we want the abilities to be used in tandem, I made it so that when using a standard action ability you may opt to make it a FRA if you do, you may use two abilities in conjunction with it as long as they have an action cost of a move action but you take a -10 to all rolls and saves for the rest of the round.

With that I changed the action cost of Mental Strength to move since it doesn't really seem to warrant a standard, and made Singularity a move action since Focused Shield already is...need to remove it from the TK Focus list if this sticks...

The -10 might be too high, but it does basically give you a free extra move action which is normally impossible...maybe -5?

Also, had a couple more ideas. Add another ability at about lvl 13. It creates an bubble that creates the penalties of fighting underwater. Then at a higher lvl, TBD still, it adds the additional function of being able effectively dimension lock people; though not as dimension lock so no random immunities to it. Call it Lockdown.
And somewhere about 16 create an ability the boosts the other ones. Like making shields no longer phase out if they successfully get through it, and other stuff TBD.
Also idea for epic: Make Lockdown also count as an antimagic field. What do you care, your stuff is all EX lol.

Re'ozul
2012-03-18, 03:36 PM
Nooooo, don't take away disable device, please. It makes the character a really good trap disabler (well non-magic variants).

On the reworking of Multi-Ability:

There really aren't many abilities that are move actions iirc. Only Shields and (with your change) mental strenght. I guess the "move weapons" (or create weapons in the unarmed's case) works as well.
Generally I didn't really see a problem with the ability as it was. Yes it was only a -2 to everything per extra ability, but then again, how often will you actually need to use it once you have shields (move) and far-trick/force-blast (standard). It was something that mostly comes up in the beginning of fights to establish a baseline for your actions in the combat.
The -10 is way too high (consider that for shields this would apply to both the bullrush check and the damage, a -10 on a save basically makes it a joke etc).

Even at a -5 it becomes a very prohibitive ability only really useful in dire situations where you have to do emergency battlefield control. And in those cases its marred by the fact that the penalty will greatly decrease your abilities' rate of success.

I really wouldn't push more abilities into the class.
Singularity already was pretty unneeded where it comes to power.
The big ones are Force-Blast, Far-trick and focused shield with mental strenght and telekinetic fighting filling the holes. Flight and Blindsight are powerful passives. Everything beyond that basically becomes bells and whistles, slowly overloading a nicely streamlined class with too much "would be cool if" things.

Though honestly, I actually like this new idea a lot better than singularity as its more along the lines of battlefield control and less dps-machine.

DerTollUdo
2012-03-18, 04:37 PM
I felt the reason it should be changed is because otherwise, as a FRA you do this, Force Blast, Far Trick, Tk Fighting, Shields, and Blindsight while moving 60 ft away with a -10 to your rolls for the round. For basically rendering everyone else useless or on mop up duty, this is by far your best choice. A -5 isn't that prohibitive since as it used to be you could use 4 abilities at once with only a -6. And saying it only comes up at the start of combat is a problem. Typically, combat starts, and ends in round 1 or maybe early 2 once you hit high levels and the wizard kills a rainforest for each of his spellbooks...

Disable Device can't really do anything without trapfinding...

Without Singularity, you basically got nothing new after 15 until you hit 20. 5 dead levels that late suck. And since 9 was the first and last real Battlefield control ability you got, I thought they would like to have the option of whether they want to put someone in a box or control their movements on the field more than just tripping/grappling/disarming.

As to your 'dps machine' statement, please elaborate. Is it too powerful? Does it out shine any other class at that level? Can it be made to kill someone in 1 round?

If we go to the table and remove the parts that are just saying an ability improved we have 6, 8, 10, 13, 14, 16, 17, 18 where you are not gaining a new class ability. That's 2/5 of the class levels where something is just improved (often it's pretty cool like TK Fighting or Far Trick, but not always) and nothing new is gained. Yes it is streamilined, yes I like the class as is, but I would like to see more options the class can do.

Because, as is, pretty much every non ACF Telekineticist is going to play the exact same. Hold weapons, have shields, blast foes/hit foes. Maybe occasional Far Tricks. By adding something more that they can do, each TK can have their own favorite fighting style that is acctually unique.

This is all personal opinion though, and I don't want you to feel like I am attacking you :)

Re'ozul
2012-03-19, 01:55 AM
Okay, about your example:

1) I don't think you could move, due to the fullround-action = no movement except 5ft step rule. I guess you could argue that the flight is an ability, but here I am of the opinion that general trumps specific.

2) All rolls at a -10. Lets assume you are lvl 20 with a 30cha. A -10 would put you at a base attack bonus of +20 for force blast. Still pretty good, though it gets lower the more you blast. As I said, I still consider force blast a bit strong so that one has the least problems in this scenario. Though the Fort-save for the force version suffers and gets reduced to a DC20.
Far trick now takes a -10 on all checks. Necessary touch attacks probably suffer very little, though the actual checks (since size modifiers don't play a role) do quite a bit. You are basically rolling bare d20s vs enemies unless you have feats invested.
TK-Fighting is now essentially useless except for providing flanking.
The shields suffer most probably. Bullrush goes from +22 to +12 and damage (unless more hands invested) becomes negligible.

Your version means that you can never get Blindsight and do something else in that round. And for most of the Telekineticist's career, there really aren't any necessary move-eqivalents aside from the shields.

Look what he can do with only move and standard. The forceblast/far hand + shield combo is generally enough anyway. Blast him, the surround him with (damage enhanced) shields. Repeat.
Unless you are fighting really smart enemies you'll rarely need something more.

I don't really consider levels where old abilities get upgrades as dead levels.

I meant the 'dps-machine' (though I guess dots would have been better) due to the fact that most of the class is just battlefield control with minor damage (except force blast). Singularity has the 'hit each other' damage and the crushing damage. While it makes sense, it feels a bit too damage focused. Part of it comes from the 'more enemies=higher DC' part to get out of the singularity. If you ever get into a mook battle (or a 'bunch of big bruisers' battle) you are basically the force that completely razes the battlefield. It only needs a moderate amount of affected enemies and their chance to get out basically shrinks to a nat20. So your party can just wait around while enemy gets crushed down to nothing.

On account of non-ACF telekineticists playing the same, well yeah.
A lot of Crusaders or Warblades or Dread Necros I have seen also play the same, as the class lends itself to that playstyle. Shield/Blast/Trick are the big things for it due to the fact that they are so utterly awesome. You can add more options, but unless you make them equally easy to use and awesome in ability, few players will actually use them.
In my mind Force blast is currently straight up superior to far-trick though due to the damage vs inconvenience argument.
Having a class be mostly played in a certain way isn't bad unless its a way that relies on breaking elements of that class.

No worries about me taking it as an attack. I like discussing things.

Veklim
2012-03-19, 06:50 AM
The original wording for the FRA multi-ability clause was pretty tight Der, it nerfs ALL the rolls enough that it becomes much like the 'To flurry, or not to flurry' debate all over again. There will be times when being able to combine 2 or 3 abilities in a single round will be effective, but not really that many. Besides the fact that it was available for my first set of playtesting, it was only done once by one test player in the entire evening. It's there as an option, but it screws your DCs, attack rolls, damage and opposed checks so much that you only get benefit a small proportion of the time.


Disable Device can't really do anything without trapfinding...But we could give them TK trapfinding (requires one Hand and a search check per 5' square)...:smallsmile: Besides, it's also useful in many of my settings for disabling/repairing machinery and devices. Added to knowledge (engineering) it should be applicable to loads of stuff imo. It also gives you something mechanic-specific to do with your manual deterity from Mental Strength.


There really aren't many abilities that are move actions iirc. You're half right at least, but with the feat tree (Focus, etc) you can turn many of your abilities into move actions a few times per day (and eventually become permanently a move action). This isn't a problem though, the more stuff you try and do, even as a move action, the harder it gets to succeed with anything. It's actually a far better system for dealing with action economy than many recent ideas I've seen, and it's certainly nowhere near as breakable as a duskblade, so we can't have been that far off in the first place. Remember, potential shenanigans are far harder to achieve with a TK, because they don't have a lot in common with 98% of external source material! (mechanically at least).


Because, as is, pretty much every non ACF Telekineticist is going to play the exact same.This isn't a huge problem. Especially since we have presented a multitude of ACFs which offer options on a flavour-specific TK, and the feats (more on the way btw) allow you to focus in on one or two aspects of the class allowing for effective use of different encounter tactics. Then there's the fact that multiclassing is still an option too, and I can see there being a few interesting combinations and possibilities out there for such.


Shield/Blast/Trick are the big things for it due to the fact that they are so utterly awesome. You can add more options, but unless you make them equally easy to use and awesome in ability, few players will actually use them.These 3 abilities along with Mental Strength make for a wonderful set of combat/utility options with a little imagination, and as they stand, I'd argue a TK has more VALID combat options than a great many classes do.

Playtesting yesterday didn't go very far at all (mostly discussion rather than actual playtesting) but it did highlight 2 feats which may be rather benficial for a TK; Speed of Thought and Force of Personality.

In conclusion, I'd say the old wording in Hands for multiple actions should be re-instated, it covers the seemingly OP nature of the capability by severely hampering all connected rolls. I'd also say there's enough in the class at the moment to leave it be. The work pending is to take all the ACFs and the base class itself and look at whether we can present a balanced option-laden class using all the abilities we currently have, but the class already presented should be kept seperate from that (for reference and for use, since it's pretty much ready for play I think). Perhaps a new thread would be appropriate for the option mashup, with reference to this thread?

DerTollUdo
2012-03-19, 11:11 AM
Seems everyone disagrees with me. Hmmm let's see if I can muster up a compelling argument :P
The -10 was too high, but I feel it should be a set ability that can only add one or two more abilities at a time. For a better example: with the orignial writting at level 11 you could have 10 hands without much optimization. Then take a FRA and Blast with 3 Hands Put up 3 Hands of shields and either make 4 weapon attacks or 4 Far Tricks. Only suffering a -4 to rolls for the round. That is practically nothing at that level. The only move action there was shields. So you gained a free standard action. The only way to normally do that is belt of battle I think.

As for disable device, the class isnt really supposed to be a rogue. At least it doesn't feel that way to me...

As to the all playong basically the same, some of the most fun classes are the ones that can be played multiple ways. Mostly because they give replayability for being different. Dont get me wrong, I love this class and will play it a bunch. But eventually I would want something different and since the class isn't that flexible I will have to change.

On the dead level comment I made most of the levels feel fun in the beginning because thats where all the abilities are. Level 13 for example you are just getting better at flying. At this point its really just a meh ability to get that late. It fills space, but don't get me wrong I'm glad it's there. Just wish it was sonething a little better for so late in the level. The proposed ability I suggested, Lockdown, would probably be here and would feel like a cool a ability to play with for a few levels until you get greater TK fighting. Then it would upgrade at either 16 or 17 to be a dimesion locking zone also. Which is great to stop the bad guys getting away. For example, oh no the bad guy is getting away! Throw down a supercharged bullrush wall around him...and he telports away. Well that sucked...you get my point I hope.

The class as is would be ready to play I think, with one rendition of the combining abilities or the other, I was just zaying tbat Lockdown would be something beneficial to the class since there isnt much to look forward to in the higher levels. Thoughts? Should it be part of the class or become an ACF? I also don't really feel we have enough options to make the option class. Maybe if you make a sample table and option list I would see it better...

Re'ozul
2012-03-19, 12:37 PM
I think you are looking at it from the wrong perspective.
Why would he use the FRA in that situation?
Just using a move and a standard he can do most of what he wanted without the penalty. The penalty again, reduces the effectiveness of his attack somewhat. Taking a -4 on trip/disarm attacks can be pretty bad. A -4 on the nauseate DC of force blast makes it a lot easier to resist. A -4 on a shield's bullrush is also pretty hefty.
Yes it can effectively give you additional standard actions, but at a price. Up until lvl 15 your blindsight also takes a fullround action to activate, so that would be an additional -2. While having a lot of hands might make this option more interesting, I think most would just use something as a move and something as a standard than the FRA version. Force blast means you can blast lots (at higher levels the force version is rather true to aim even with penalties) and far trick allows you to just throw several things against an enemy in the same round (bullrush, followed by disarm, followed by trip).

Trapfinding might actually be a good addition to the class. Right now the out of combat uses are limited to pack-mule and party-face.

Yes, lockdown would be beneficial to the class, no doubt.

Veklim
2012-03-19, 02:15 PM
Then take a FRA and Blast with 3 Hands Put up 3 Hands of shields and either make 4 weapon attacks or 4 Far Tricks. Only suffering a -4 to rolls for the round.You've missed the fact that 4 far tricks would give you a -6 to the rolls for that, and 3 blasts would have a -4 each as well, making it a total of -8 for the blasts, and -10 for the tricks. If we use the original wording for the FRA option, then the cumulative -2 per extra action keeps almost directly in line with the -2 per extra attack penalty. This effectively means you suffer similar overall penalties whether you're making 6 far trick attempts and a shield as a standard action + move action, or you're making 3 far tricks, 3 force blasts and a shield as a full round action. Although the full round action gets slightly smaller penalties to far trick/force blast uses (-8 instead of -10), you have to apply a -4 penalty to all your shield rolls as well. Using the same example but without shield uses means that the standard action gives -10 for 6 attacks, as opposed to the full round action giving -8 for 6 attacks, meaning you take longer for less penalty if you want the same number of attacks over multiple abilities. This is quintessentially balanced in both concept and ruling.

What you propose with the 'one size fits all' approach to the penalty will simply mess up the penalty system we have already put in place to control action economy, making the penalty either too little or too much, very rarely a reasonable amount.

I understand you're trying to streamline this a bit, but honestly I don't see how a class which bends the action economy anyhow can be given non-scaling penalties to do so.


Trapfinding might actually be a good addition to the class. Right now the out of combat uses are limited to pack-mule and party-face.I think so too, they have Hands which give them the capability to manipulate things at a distance and a bit later gain 360 super-sense, trapfinding is honestly more of a glaring oversight than 'too much'. They probably should have gotten it the moment we agreed on Mind's Eye!


Yes, lockdown would be beneficial to the class, no doubt. Where is this written down? I remember you mentioning something using the dome shields which I gave The Maker, but the standard class doesn't get that ability so we'd have to look into how to get around that, if that's indeed the case. Either way, it would help and make a worthy addition to the class, as long as we can find the right place to put it!

DerTollUdo
2012-03-19, 02:22 PM
I think I have found the disagreement lol. I don't look at things on the small side, whereas you guys do. It helps to make a class when you have people with both points of view, so I am glad we are all helping Bob :) I see things on the scale of "how can I make this the most powerful?" And using that ability to combine them for nigh infinite actions is pretty high up there. Look at this from an optimization standpoint:

Be an Petal. Off the bat they get +8 to cha and +4 con and a bunch of other stuff for 2 LA. Since those are the most important stats to the class, lets call them 18s. They become 26 and 22. That's +8 and +6. So at first level (3rd total) they have 8 Hands. Around level 11 it is not unreasonable to think that they probably got +6 items as fast as possible. So +11 and +9. Now they have 15 Hands and a +22 to hit (BAB + Cha). While yes it is nice to take just the one move and the standard, if you need a quick boost in field control (like Blasting/disarming/tripping/grappling some unruly foe) take the -4 so you don't lose the strategic wall placements and attacking with a bunch of weapons. With this many Hands, let's say 3 weapons with 3 Hands in dmg, and 5 Hands in walls and 4 Hands in Blast/Tricks.

Using the Full attack action of TK Fighting you are only gonna suffer -4 to hit/dmg so 18/13/8 with dmg of 1Dx+12 each hit, then you get a wall (which by now your opponents should be trying to avoid, so you can just start dropping it on them to push them around the field because it has a bullrush check of 29 with Hands buffing it and does 6d6+7 after penalty) and probably some Blasts for an +12 touch attack against up to four people dealing 11d4-4 each with saves of 22, or if you have stupidly heavy objects 22d6-4 each.

I would probably choose to do all of that more rounds than not. Maybe change the limit to make it a flat -4 or -6 but can just combine two abilities in the same action slot...that seems better actually. Thoughts?

And a note on the Maker dome thing: Shaping a wall can also put it in a dome. I don't know if your guy does it better since I am not looking at the number atm, but yeah.

Edit: Also, this was typed up before Veklims response...just saying.

With that being said. Maybe I am overreacting about the action economy? Idk. My friend brought it up to me and made a convincing argument. You guys tell me, since we have now made our arguments for both sides with numbers to back them up (see mine and Veklim's). Should we 1) go back to original? 2) Go with the one size fits all? or 3) that new one I mentioned above?

Well, alright. I guess we can steal the rogues schtick. What trapfinding ability should we use, where should we put it, and how do we flavor it for the class? I'll add back in Disable Device.

Lockdown is the title of the ability I designed but didn't add to the class because at first you guys were saying it would put too much into the class and would be unnecessary. But it looks like I should write it up? Here is the basic idea/writeup. You guys tell me if I should add it and how to balance it if it isn't:

Lockdown: At level 13 you learn how to use you Hands to slow the air itself. As a move action you create a sphere of dense air 5' in radius +5'/Hand anywhere within the range of your Hands.

Thrown weapons cannot be used within the sphere, even when launched from outside. Attacks with other ranged weapons or ranged spells take a -1 penalty/Hand on attack rolls for every 5 feet of the sphere they pass through, in addition to the normal penalties for range. Melee attacks only function if they are Slashing and suffer a -1 penalty/Hand on attack rolls.

Creatures within the area of the Lockdown must make a Fort save if they wish to move. If they pass they only move up to 1/4 of their speed. Failure by more than 5 means the attempt to move fails and the action is wasted. This DC may be increased separately from the radius and attack penalty at the rate of +2/Hand

At level 16 any area you Lockdown has become so dense that magic is incapable of leaving it. No spell cast within the sphere may have a target outside of the Lockdown. Teleportation and Teleportation like effects do not function within the Lockdown.


Then add this line to the capstone: Your Lockdown now negates all forms of magic within it.

How does that sound guys?

Re'ozul
2012-03-19, 02:56 PM
While I find it interesting that you mention petals (since I just made a petal pure telekineticist for a game) they are pretty much the most grievous of practical optimization choices due to their stat bonuses.

On your example:
Keep in mind the distance penalty on TK-Fighting.

How did you arrive at the +29 bullrush check? It should be +12 gargantuan, +11 charisma, +8 from hands (if you invest 4 hands into one shield, -4 from multi. So with 5 hands in shields the best you could get would be +27?

The thing you have to ask yourself is not "can I do it" but "does it make sense". Considering not all people will play petals, reduce all those numbers by 4 and the hands by 2. Still powerful yes, but not as overwhelming.

Combining action slots (multiple abilities in a standard or move) was what I originally brought up, it resulted in the current rule.

Personally I'd be for a rule that allows "during any move,standard,swift or fullround action the telekineticist takes, she may use more than one power that requires that amount of time or less (FRA>standard>move>swift) but takes a -4 to all rolls of all abilities ued in that action. This effect is cumulative and increases by another -4 for each ability beyond 2 so used during that action."

The problem here however would be that you eat less penalties for a 2move then 2standard action than a 3-ability-FRA.

DerTollUdo
2012-03-19, 03:16 PM
Yeah, it's supposed to be +27, calculated it wrong :P Still nothing to sneeze at though.

The distance penalty I forgot to factor in...but it is hard to factor in without knowing combat setup.

I like that version of the rule, as long as you can only combine 2 abilities at once. Doesn't break the economy, doesn't make it useless.

Re'ozul
2012-03-19, 03:33 PM
The problem with it is however, that it means you incur a heavier penalty for activating your blindsight until you can have it continuous at lvl 15.

DerTollUdo
2012-03-19, 04:01 PM
Technically the blindsight gives it to you until the end of your next round. So, eh?

Veklim
2012-03-19, 05:04 PM
OK, perhaps we can meet in the middle on the FRA stuff...here's a slight tweak/rewrite of the first draft ability (my personal vote):

Whenever you take an action with your Hands, you may opt to instead make it a full round action. If you do so, you may use any number of other Hand abilities at the same time which have an equal or shorter action time. This incurs a cumulative -2 penalty per ability to all rolls and save DCs involved in these actions (so if you were to combine Force Blast and Far Trick, you would get a -4 penalty to rolls and DCs for these abilities in addition to any penalties accrued for multiple attacks).

So they get a -2 for EVERY ability in the combo, not just additional ones. This should address the slight penalty discount which occurs in certain situations but leaves the penalty as a scaling one (therefore making success progressively harder for each extra ability you want to combine).

Veklim
2012-03-19, 05:20 PM
With regards to the Petal business, we really shouldn't EVER try and balance a class based on the most optimised build we can conceive. If that were part of standard class building, every brew'd class in existence would top out at Tier 3, because they'd be nerfed to within an inch of their lives. I see the problem with a Petal TK, in the same way a dozen other races create OP builds for a dozen other classes. Thing is, any DM worth his salt will keep an eye on this sort of thing. Even the most horrifically optimised TK build possible wouldn't compare to a fullcaster base class, and a well built bardbarian still outstrips pretty much anything the TK could do (as far as my twisted mind can think up right now anyhow).

DerTollUdo
2012-03-19, 08:04 PM
Balancing for the Petal isn't what I was saying lol. I was saying look at what this class would do if it were in tge high power side. A good brew can stand balanced in low power and high power. As to your rewrite, I havent had time to process it, so I will get back to that. Any thoughts on Lockdown?

Re'ozul
2012-03-20, 01:36 AM
So both the area AND the imposed penalty get higher with more hands invested?
This means you don't really need the shields for self-protection anymore.
All you need to do is put the sphere around you with maybe 3-5 extra hands.

In the latter case that would be 30'. This would mean near no one can actually get to you in melee and all ranged attacks take at least a -36 on their rolls.

At level 16 you automatically shut down all casters you can get into your spheres.

Overall, the initial idea is good, but the penalties should increase independant from the size.
So the options for more hands would be:
- +5' radius
- increase penaltiy by 1 for melee and 1/5' for ranged
- +2 to DC

Otherwise its too easy to make insanely protective spheres with few hands.

Melee attacks should work if they are piercing (since only bludgeoning really makes an argumnent for great resistance).

The magic bit seems too strong.
Maybe something like this:
"The movement inhibiting properties of your field also greatly hinder spellcasters. An spell or spell-like-ability that requires somatic components suffers a spell-failure-chance increase of 20%. This effect may be increased by an additional 10% for each hand invested for specifically this purpose.
You may also suffuse the field with the fractal energies that give your shields their strenght. To do so you may invest a number of hands not greater than the number invested in the fireld's growth. For each invested hand only spells of a level greater than the number of invested hands may penetrate to the center (innermost 5' radius). The effect reduces by one spell level for each 5' distance from the center. This effect also affacts spells trying to leave from the corresponding layer.
Example: Jarod the lvl 18 Telekineticist has invested 3 hands into increasing his field's area and it is now a speher of 20' radius. He now invests 4 hands into fractal absorbance. This means only second level spells may penetrate the field at all. Only third level spells may penetrate deeper than 5' into, 4th level spells more than 10' and 5th level spells all the way to the center.
At the same time only 5th level spells may leave the center of the field.


Hmmmm, very wordy and a bit complicated. Still, in the example that alone would cost 8 hands (no increase in movement DC, or penalties and only the 20% spell failure increase). I don't think thats too much.

Kobold-Bard
2012-03-20, 07:10 PM
Hey all, back with another irritating question that have probably already been answered.

Regarding this passage:

These movements are not limited in direction, but do have a limited duration. The Telekineticist can maintain pressure for up to wisdom modifier rounds, after that the object drops to the ground and the Telekineticist is fatigued for 1d4 rounds. You may not initiate this ability if you are fatigued. If you cease pressure, and do not use any ability requiring Telekinetic Hands for a full round, the duration you may keep this up is reset.

Does this apply to any use of Mental Strength? eg. can a Telekineticist only lift a plate for the same duration as they could a refrigerator (or something else heavy enough to be in one of the higher weight categories)? And would lifting a single plate for longer than Wis-Mod Rounds fatigue them in the same way the fridge would? Because that seems a bit odd.

Also: Would the creators consider Telekinetic Shield & Ghostly Hand to be acceptable replacements for Martial Skill & Critical Thinking as ACF pre-reqs, thus making it possible to take both the Pure TK & TK Savant ACFs? Or were they designed as they are so that you couldn't take them both together?

DerTollUdo
2012-03-20, 09:22 PM
That question is answered in the ability itself :P
But for ease of reference 25lbs/level/Hand may be sustained withoit limit. otherwise all things fatigue you the same.
While you're here mr. bard, care to examine our changes and new abilities?

Mathias1313
2012-03-20, 10:56 PM
Kudos to everyone involved in this class I love it.
I just had a few questions I was hoping someone could clarify for me, so here goes...

1- Telekinetic Fighting - A)Lesser allows a full attack, does this include feats like 2-weapon fighting or MultiWeapon fighting?
- B)Improved says you make an attack with each weapon that you are holding, so at lvl10 with a con mod of +4 I can make 7 Attacks per round?
- C)Greater... does this erally allow me to make a full-attack action with each weapon I am holding including feats like 2-weapon fighting and suck?
2- Singularity -If I understand correctly, you use 1 hand to start it, then 1 additional hand per target you want and then you may add additional hands to increase the damage done. Or do you instead add all the han ds together to figure out the damage?

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks again for all the great work everyone. :smallsmile:

DerTollUdo
2012-03-21, 12:27 AM
Alright, I can clear this up pretty easy :) and thank you for helping by asking questions! If any of what I explain doesn't make sense or you feel isn't implied in the post, please let me know. Also the most current version of the class is in post 146 on page 5.

Lesser TK Fighting allows you to make a full attack as though you were fighting with the weapons in your actual hands. This means that you could, at level 6 with twf, as a Full Attack action use your hands to make 4 attacks. These attacks are split amongst up to 4 weapons you are wielding with you Hands at no additional penalty. They do, however, have the normal -2 for twf and also have penalties of -1/10' between you and your weapon.

Improved makes it so you may attack once with each weapon you are holding with your Hands as a standard action. All the attacks made with the ability use a single die roll using your highest attack bonus to confirm, but the roll is applied to each target separately. The penalty for this, however, is that you take a -2 to the die roll for each weapon you use for this past the first. For your example, you have 8 Hands not 7, and if you used them all for this instead of anything else you could do you would be able to hit 8 times if you can still hit with a -7 to your roll. At level 11, when you get it, you would have a to hit modifier of 4 + you cha mod and distance penalties still apply. Might need to change that to -2 for each weapon after the first...guys, thoughts?

Greater is the fighters dream. For each weapon being wielded by your Hands, you may make as many attacks with it as you could make with your BAB, so 4 since you get it at 16, plus any that the weapon gives (such as from speed). At this point you no longer take the distance penalties. I don't think twf would apply anymore...as it doesn't make sense to lol.

As for Singularity, the Hands for dmg are totally separate from the targeting Hands. Was this line not clear enough on that?

You may invest more hands in the singularity, to increase the damage they take by an addition 5d6/Hand

Also while you are here, we have a new ability up for discussion and would love to hear your thoughts, it is here if you are interested:
Lockdown: At level 13 you learn how to use you Hands to slow the air itself. As a move action you create a sphere of dense air 5' in radius +5'/Hand anywhere within the range of your Hands.

Thrown weapons cannot be used within the sphere, even when launched from outside. Attacks with other ranged weapons or ranged spells take a -1 penalty/Hand on attack rolls for every 5 feet of the sphere they pass through, in addition to the normal penalties for range. Melee attacks only function if they are Slashing and suffer a -1 penalty/Hand on attack rolls.

Creatures within the area of the Lockdown must make a Fort save if they wish to move. If they pass they only move up to 1/4 of their speed. Failure by more than 5 means the attempt to move fails and the action is wasted. This DC may be increased separately from the radius and attack penalty at the rate of +2/Hand

At level 16 any area you Lockdown has become so dense that magic is incapable of leaving it. No spell cast within the sphere may have a target outside of the Lockdown. Teleportation and Teleportation like effects do not function within the Lockdown.


Then add this line to the capstone: Your Lockdown now negates all forms of magic within it.

Kobold-Bard
2012-03-21, 03:02 AM
That question is answered in the ability itself :P
But for ease of reference 25lbs/level/Hand may be sustained withoit limit. otherwise all things fatigue you the same.
While you're here mr. bard, care to examine our changes and new abilities?

That's what I thought, but I wanted to clarify. Thanks.

How about my other query?

And I'll try after work.

Mathias1313
2012-03-21, 03:13 AM
Cool, thanks for replying man, appreciate it.
Singularity was more for clarification than anything else, I was pretty sure that’s what you wanted but I wanted to make sure.

As for the Telekinetic Fighting, do you think that is a bit much? I am in no way criticizing, just adding a diff perspective. LVL 6 is cool, I like it a lot. Normal # of attacks but at ranged, thematic and cool. LVL11 however I get 8 attacks (I assume that the 1/3 hands means you get 1 at first lvl? Wasn’t sure) at -7. Compare that to the Feat Manyshot where you get a -8 to hit for 4 arrows. So that is double the # of attacks and at 1 lower penalty to hit. Now that is balanced by having a -1 to hit for every 10ft away from me it is. That still seems a bit too much to me, not sure tho. And now at lvl16 I get 10 hands min (based on previous calculations) that each get +16/+11/+6/+1 with a weapon that it is holding. I now ignore range penalties but I would have a -9 to hit, so +7/+2/-3/-8. By 16th lvl your CHA should nullify the penalty to hit and that’s not including any other bonuses you might add. Lol, I just keep thinking of a 16th lvl character with a Dragonfire inspiration Bard singing Cohort, 40 attacks with all that extra damage. :smallsmile:

Couple quick questions as well (I know I am a pest but TK weapon wielding is like my obssession), Why do you go from lvl6 normal iterative attacks to lvl11 1 attack roll for all the hands, then lvl 16 back to iterative attacks for all the separate hands again. There has to be a better way of doing this. If you would not object I would like to try thinking of a solution for this and maybe submit it to you for approval. Now I am not trying to step on any ones toes so if that is not cool, let me know.. or if I am missing something about the above then also let me know. :smallsmile:
Also can you use feats on all the weapons that you wield, for instance Weapon Spec to get +2 damage, what about Swashbuckler 3 to get INT to damage provided I am wielding appropriate weapons. Not sure if that is addressed yet.

On to the new Ability of Lockdown: I like the theme of the abilite but I have some concerns. Completely shutting down any thrown weapon makes me sad but hey windwall is like lvl3 so Not so bad. Clarification on the wording would be nice, if I have say 6 hands invested in the Lockdown, making it 35ft radius, does the shooter really take a -6 penalty to hit per 5ft the attack goes thru? That seems a bit excessive. As for melee attacks I don’t think it should just straight out stop bludge and pierce attacks. Maybe use the underwater rules or something to make it more difficult. Also I am hesitant to use the interactions with magic for the Lockdown and here is my reasoning… At lvl16 I can create the area around a target Spellcaster and they have become effectively neutralized. They can still cast spells but they cannot leave the area I created. At lvl 20 if I get initiative, the mage is dead beacause none of his spells now work and any buffs are auto dispelled, but heres the kicker…. There is no save for this. I think this particular ability needs some tweeking.
I hope any and all of this helps and plz remember I am helping to the best of my abilities as I truly like this class and the way it has turned out.

Veklim
2012-03-21, 06:47 AM
Thankyou for the questions dude, every question we answer/address puts us one step closer to getting this class perfect :smallbiggrin:

To address the key concerns you mentioned on TK Fighting, firstly I'd not worry about the idea of Swashbuckler or the like giving extra damage, since for every level you don't take in TK, you have less hands, less abilities and less effective radius. If cross-classing is your schtick, then carry on, but it would only serve to change the flavour/group dynamics of the character, numerical benefits would be slim-to-none (I think you'd actually lose more than you gained with such a combination).

The worries over Weapon Spec are similarly untroubling, since the TK doesn't count as a fighter, he can't get the feat. A lot of the more powerful weapon feats and abilities wouldn't work either way, since you can't charge with TKF. Besides all this, there are honestly better feats to take for a TK, which benefit other areas of the class or the class as a whole, most weapon feats will pale in comparison to someone with Look Ma, More Hands! and TK Supremacy (Force Blast).

As to the scaling quality of TKF, it's not as silly as it looks. You begin by being able to weild weapons, then you threaten with the weapon regardless of whereabouts it is, then you gain iterative attacks for a single weapon (all good so far yes?). Then you gain the ability to make a single attack with each weapon, bearing in mind this cannot be done if you want iterative attacks, this becomes a choice. You can hit multiple enemies in different places within your TK range, or you can focus them all on one target, but either way it's an upgrade on iteratives for a single weapon, considering how many weapons you can use at once (here, the penalties make sure that multiple weapons don't overshadow a single one with iteratives too much, you're still more likely to hit if you focus on one weapon only). Finally, you become capable of full iteratives with every weapon you weild, which seems a lot until you look at how much damage any one hit is going to do. Not a lot, honestly (especially in comparison to the damage a fairly commonplace melee build is capable of by this level)! Sure, you get literally dozens of attacks, but the penalties get larger the more weapons you weild, which means even if the first one or two hit, the attacks thereafter are more and more unlikely to do so with each additional weapon you weild.


Might need to change that to -2 for each weapon after the first...guys, thoughts?Brings it in line with the rest of the class abilities and makes sense, aye.

I'm still a bit bothered by the wording on Lockdown, I'm gonna go over it again this evening and try to come up with a better wording for it. Might be easier to use the effects of Hold Monster and Dimensional Anchor as reference, instead of writing out the upgrade the way it is right now. Also it doesn't actually state what happens if you fail the save by less than 5, I know it's fairly obvious, but should still be stated for the sake of completeness and clarity imo.

Veklim
2012-03-21, 08:11 AM
@Kobald-Bard, I don't think that's a good idea, Pure TK is a powerful ACF indeed, and the Savant ACFs I designed were created to exist in a vacuum, besides which, The Maker kinda needs shields to make use of it's unique ability..! Each of the ACFs represents a different 'specialisation' within the class, the idea of taking 2 or 3 of them would probably destabilise the tentative balance of the class sooner or later. I am considering making a couple which directly replace singular abilities though, these may allow for more of what you're looking for.

What do you think of the Savant ACFs btw? It's essentially your fault I made them after all!:smalltongue:

DerTollUdo
2012-03-21, 10:43 AM
Alright i'll add the change to improved tkf. Is there supposed to be a penalty of -1 per extra weapon being wielded for greater? I think it got lost in the shuffle...

As for lockdown: the idea started with wanting to create a bubble that forces those in it to be effected as though they were underwater as those penalties are rough. But since bfcontrol is this guy's schtick I felt that the penalties and such should be able to be amplified.

Then at 13 I was originally just going to have it block all forms of telepprting because those kind of abilities defeat the purpose of the ability lol. But while thinking on it, I thought it would be cool if it kind of became a magic isolator by keeping a barrier that basically blocked line of effect in or out.

As the capstone part, since everything of yours is now EX and your about to hit the land of epic spell casting and wtf dude? I felt an effect that negates magic would be cool and improve survivability.

Not to knock the wizard, but if he is stopped by an AMF like effect at 20 he shouldnt be a caster.

Now as to rewording, it probably needs some so go ahead and take a crack at it. However, I have one stipulation. You may not take the easy way out and reference a spell. None of the rest o f the class does and there is a reason I have made sure to word everything without them. People can become immune to spells, they cannot as easily become immune to random class abilities.

Veklim
2012-03-21, 04:18 PM
Alright i'll add the change to improved tkf. Is there supposed to be a penalty of -1 per extra weapon being wielded for greater? I think it got lost in the shuffle...Was gonna do that with one TKF feats I was half-planning, up to you, but I think GTKF does enough already, penalty reduction for all the other multi-use stuff only comes from feats, I think it should be the same for TKF, gimme a day or 2 to present the TKF feats I was considering and we can maybe discuss again then?


As for lockdown...I've got a couple of ideas for re-packaging this actually, I'll jot some stuff down when I'm free and you can see what you think.


Now as to rewording, it probably needs some so go ahead and take a crack at it. However, I have one stipulation. You may not take the easy way out and reference a spell. None of the rest o f the class does and there is a reason I have made sure to word everything without them. People can become immune to spells, they cannot as easily become immune to random class abilities.I've actually got an idea or two here as well, I'll see what I can come up with and post it seperately to the above. :smallbiggrin:

DerTollUdo
2012-03-21, 08:22 PM
I meant, is there supposed to be a penalty for multiple weapons in gtkf...

DerTollUdo
2012-03-21, 11:56 PM
Alright got a rework of the ability:

Lockdown (SU):
At level 13 you learn how to use you Hands to slow the air itself. As a move action you create a sphere of dense air 5' in radius +5'/Hand anywhere within the range of your Hands.

Thrown weapons cannot be used within the sphere, even when launched from outside.

Attacks with other ranged weapons or ranged spells take a -1 penalty/Hand on attack rolls for every 5 feet of the sphere they pass through, in addition to the normal penalties for range. Slashing and Bludgeoning weapons, but not piercing weapons, may also function within the sphere at a -1 penalty/Hand but they deal half damage. The Hands used to increase the radius also apply to the attack penalties.

Creatures within the area of the Lockdown must make a Fort save if they wish to move. If they pass they may move up to 1/2 of their speed. If they fail by 4 or less, they may only move up to 1/4 of their move speed. Failure by more than 5 means the attempt to move fails and the action is wasted. This DC may be increased, separately from the radius and attack penalty, at the rate of +1/Hand

A Freedom of Movement effect removes the attack penalties and movement penalty.

At level 16 any area you Lockdown becomes so dense that it blocks Line of Effect. It also causes Teleportation and Teleportation like effects to not function within the Lockdown.

A Freedom of Movement effect has no effect on this blocking Line of Effect or stopping Teleportation.

Then add this line to the capstone:

Your Lockdown can now stop magic before it begins. With this, any area you Lockdown prevents all spells from being cast from within and suppresses effects granted from spells cast. Spells may still be cast into the sphere, as long as they don't require Line of Effect. This also effects spells from items, but the items themselves function normally.

For example:
A spell grants you Freedom of Movement. When you enter the field, that effect is suppressed and any attempt to recast it fails.
You wear a ring of Freedom of Movement. Upon entering the field the ring functions as normal and you continue to benefit from it.
You have an item that the the ability to cast spells. When you enter the field, any attempt to cast these spells fails and any that are already active are suppressed.


Does that look better guys?

Mathias1313
2012-03-22, 01:07 AM
To Veklim: Thanks for responding. I used Insightful strike and weapon Spec as examples as they were the first to come to mind. I think you underestimate what a little dipping can do. Also, not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but you should be clear on wether wielding the weapons telekinetically counts as you wielding them for abilities and feats for example…. A 1lvl dip into rogue gets me 1d6 sneak attack damage. Not much extra but I can think of at least 3 items (rogues vest, bracers of hunter, and mantle of the predator) that each increase the sneak attack by additional d6s, so 4d6 total, now take craven for 4d6+20. Now unless I am missing something, your weapons threaten and can thus flank, with themselves. So even with a 1 lvl dip into rogue you can bust out some nice extra damage especially with 40 some odd attacks. I understand the to-hit would not be high but what if I say used a UMD wand of wraithstrike… now all of my 40 attacks are touch ac. And all that extra damage is even more painful. What about a couple of feats to get a shadow hand stance from ToB and then take I think its called Shadow Hand and now I get my Dex to damage as well. Try to remember that these are all just off the top of my head, I feel confident that if I had proper time, I could come up with some seriously nasty ideas. I really think you guys should decide if feats and abilities work while wielding weapons TK. I think It makes a pretty big difference.
What if instead of TK fighting as is you made it more like Multi-weapon fighting. You could avoid the whole, going from iterative attacks to 1 die roll back to iterative attacks again, which seems messy to me. Besides, it just dosen’t seem right that if I roll a natural 20 I have possible critted with ALL my attacks. So how about something like for every 2 hands dedicated to TK fighting in a round you may fight as if you had an additional arm. Allowing you to use feats like 2-weapon fighting, then maybe throw something like if you have 3+ arms in a round then the 2-weapon fighting tree acts as if the Multi-weapon fighting tree and for the purchase of said feats you may use you CHA, WIS, or INT instead of the DEX req. That way at 20thlvl you could act as if you had 6 arms (I think that’s right) and would have approx. 18 attacks. This would still be within the bounds of a dedicated melee specialist and would also not be half as bad as having to deal with 40+ attacks in a round.
Or how about if you don’t like the 2 hands thing, what about just 1 hand invested but with a max at certain lvls. That way you can still have other hands to do other things. Thoughts?

To DerTollUdo: I like the theme of the Lockdown power its just a bit too much I think. Opinions may very of course but at 13th lvl you have basically stopped all physical damage. Any form of ranged attacks will be laughable due to the extreme penalties to hit and only Slashing can function for melee within the area and with penalties at that. I still however think the Anti-Magic area is too much, you bring up the Wizard, but even a lvl20 wizard would have a hard time dealing with this. But lets forget that for now and use instead normal monsters. Dragons, Demons, devils.. all things that can be severely screwed by an antimagic zone. They all become very easy to deal with especially since there is no save to trap someone inside it. Its just there and the enemy is screwed.

I hope any of the above helps and I know a lot sounds like criticism but it is not. I love the idea of this class and for the most part the execution as well, I just have some problems with the odd thing here ot there. Keep up the good work everyone.

As a side note, what about a feat or something that allowed you to use your CHA as your STR in reference to your carrying capacity and perhaps and improved version that allowed you to be treated as a size larger for carrying capacity or as a quadraped. Also what about adding something where you got a bonus to Jump, Balance, tumbling, climb equal to your LVL or half your lvl in the class as TK assist in such thing and then if you are using PF you get said bonus to your FLY skill as well? Thoughts?

Mathias1313
2012-03-22, 01:08 AM
To DerTollUdo: Sorry didnt see your revamp of the Lockdown before posting, I like it alot better. Just for clarification, Slashing and Bludg now have penalties to hit and deal half damage but Piercing is unaffected right?

Veklim
2012-03-22, 06:29 AM
I meant, is there supposed to be a penalty for multiple weapons in gtkf...

Yes!

@Mathias1313:
I'll get back to all that later, TKF is messy looking I know, but the best way to stop all that is simply disallowing you to count as weilding the weapons yourself. Maybe roll crit confirmation seperately for each creature? Not sure if a complete revamp of TKF is needed yet, but if you're serious, could you write it down in a manner which reads like an ability? Then we have actual wording to discuss :smallbiggrin:

DerTollUdo
2012-03-22, 10:03 AM
To DerTollUdo: Sorry didnt see your revamp of the Lockdown before posting, I like it alot better. Just for clarification, Slashing and Bludg now have penalties to hit and deal half damage but Piercing is unaffected right?

Yeah this version of Lockdown was inspired after spending time going into detail about it with my buddy. Slash and Bludg are useable but suffer to hit penalties, and you only deal half damage when attacking with them. Piercing is unuseable, fluff wise: the air is just to thick to stab. I feel the 20th lvl ability is cool, but worry it is too convoluted to read easily...Thoughts on that?


To Veklim: Thanks for responding. I used Insightful strike and weapon Spec as examples as they were the first to come to mind. I think you underestimate what a little dipping can do. Also, not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but you should be clear on wether wielding the weapons telekinetically counts as you wielding them for abilities and feats for example…. A 1lvl dip into rogue gets me 1d6 sneak attack damage. Not much extra but I can think of at least 3 items (rogues vest, bracers of hunter, and mantle of the predator) that each increase the sneak attack by additional d6s, so 4d6 total, now take craven for 4d6+20. Now unless I am missing something, your weapons threaten and can thus flank, with themselves. So even with a 1 lvl dip into rogue you can bust out some nice extra damage especially with 40 some odd attacks. I understand the to-hit would not be high but what if I say used a UMD wand of wraithstrike… now all of my 40 attacks are touch ac. And all that extra damage is even more painful. What about a couple of feats to get a shadow hand stance from ToB and then take I think its called Shadow Hand and now I get my Dex to damage as well. Try to remember that these are all just off the top of my head, I feel confident that if I had proper time, I could come up with some seriously nasty ideas. I really think you guys should decide if feats and abilities work while wielding weapons TK. I think It makes a pretty big difference.


First, this assumes you have gotten the weapons into range. They can't blink around the field lol. But that aside, you have seriously crippled the rest of your class for that one level dip. You now only have 7 Hands + Con mod. 10 + con mod if you took the feat. At level 20 you would have 14 or 22 + Con mod if you took it full.

That aside. Let's assume you have a +5 con and +12 Cha since it is the main stat. Seems reasonable enough to me anyway. So now your rogue guy can wield 12 weapons, or 15 if he took the feat. If he does he suffers a -22 or -28 to hit. So with a BAB of 19 he can make 4 attacks at the following bonuses if he uses this ability: 9/4/-1/-6 or 3/-2/-7/-12. It ends with some very sad looking numbers. Even for touch attacks. And this assumes you did everything to your Cha bonus (18+6+5 tome+5 lvl).

I don't really see a problem, since doing this one dip costs you the capstone. But, if others do, what if we added this line to the ability:

Only weapons that are used within 5' of yourself count as being wielded by you for the purposes of class abilities and feats that affect them.


What if instead of TK fighting as is you made it more like Multi-weapon fighting. You could avoid the whole, going from iterative attacks to 1 die roll back to iterative attacks again, which seems messy to me. Besides, it just dosen’t seem right that if I roll a natural 20 I have possible critted with ALL my attacks. So how about something like for every 2 hands dedicated to TK fighting in a round you may fight as if you had an additional arm. Allowing you to use feats like 2-weapon fighting, then maybe throw something like if you have 3+ arms in a round then the 2-weapon fighting tree acts as if the Multi-weapon fighting tree and for the purchase of said feats you may use you CHA, WIS, or INT instead of the DEX req. That way at 20thlvl you could act as if you had 6 arms (I think that’s right) and would have approx. 18 attacks. This would still be within the bounds of a dedicated melee specialist and would also not be half as bad as having to deal with 40+ attacks in a round.
Or how about if you don’t like the 2 hands thing, what about just 1 hand invested but with a max at certain lvls. That way you can still have other hands to do other things. Thoughts?

No. I do not like this idea as it is not the flavor of the class. I like that you thought it out but not the execution. Personal opinion not trying to be mean :)

But if you feel like that many attacks is an issue, which I would agree with, how about we keep it single roll and iterative? By that I mean you get the attacks for your BAB, but each iterative is only rolled once and applies to all weapons being wielded for that iterative. And any threatened criticals are confirmed separately. So you end up with about 4-6 die rolls depending on other abilities. Thoughts?



To DerTollUdo: I like the theme of the Lockdown power its just a bit too much I think. Opinions may very of course but at 13th lvl you have basically stopped all physical damage. Any form of ranged attacks will be laughable due to the extreme penalties to hit and only Slashing can function for melee within the area and with penalties at that. I still however think the Anti-Magic area is too much, you bring up the Wizard, but even a lvl20 wizard would have a hard time dealing with this. But lets forget that for now and use instead normal monsters. Dragons, Demons, devils.. all things that can be severely screwed by an antimagic zone. They all become very easy to deal with especially since there is no save to trap someone inside it. Its just there and the enemy is screwed.

You do realize that you can just put up a wall and all ranged attacks stop right? A lvl 20 wizard should really be wearing his tinfoil hat...but since it is no longer an AMF like effect and just stops/suppresses spell casting I see some rather hilarious events. You throw it on a fissioned person, they disappear. You toss it on the polymorphed guy, and suddenly its koala or something. Lol random suppression of spells feels fun :) and would be funny for some protection spells. I cast shrink item to steal this big heavy thing, then hide it in my pocket. The field falls on me, well crap. I have no more pocket and my big heavy thing is there in the open.


Oh, unrelated thought about a new capstone abilitycapstone ability for focused shield: When someone passes through the shield it no longer dissipates.
Also would be cool if you could make it so that weapons cannot pass through it, i.e. phasing arrows.



I hope any of the above helps and I know a lot sounds like criticism but it is not. I love the idea of this class and for the most part the execution as well, I just have some problems with the odd thing here ot there. Keep up the good work everyone.

As a side note, what about a feat or something that allowed you to use your CHA as your STR in reference to your carrying capacity and perhaps and improved version that allowed you to be treated as a size larger for carrying capacity or as a quadraped. Also what about adding something where you got a bonus to Jump, Balance, tumbling, climb equal to your LVL or half your lvl in the class as TK assist in such thing and then if you are using PF you get said bonus to your FLY skill as well? Thoughts?

Don't worry, we appreciate the critiques. It helps balance and clarify the class.

I don't see a reason for the last part. The carrying capacity is handled quite well already with the Mental Strength ability. At level 20 you can carry 500lbs with one Hand indefinitely and move it in any direction, and add 500 for every additional Hand you wish to use. Or if you want something really stupidly heavy, you can push/drag something 5000lbs with one Hand at a speed of 10', adding more Hands to increase weight or speed.
As for the random bonus to skills, it isn't fitting of the class. Sure he could jump around, or he could just fly, same with balance, tumble, and climb. If he is trying to dodge something, just put up a wall.


Yes!

Added with another potential rework above. I also ralize we haven't settled on how we are handling the multi use ability. Just saying.



@Mathias1313:
I'll get back to all that later, TKF is messy looking I know, but the best way to stop all that is simply disallowing you to count as weilding the weapons yourself. Maybe roll crit confirmation seperately for each creature? Not sure if a complete revamp of TKF is needed yet, but if you're serious, could you write it down in a manner which reads like an ability? Then we have actual wording to discuss :smallbiggrin:

I think I may have solved this issue above.

Oh, another thought. Should I make it so that Singularity, Lockdown, and Focused Shield may not occupy the same spaces? Otherwise, make a Singularity on a Lockdown at lvl 20 and box them in shields. They probably can't pass both saves and the Bullrush check.

Veklim
2012-03-22, 06:36 PM
Oh, another thought. Should I make it so that Singularity, Lockdown, and Focused Shield may not occupy the same spaces?

YES! Thought we'd covered that already!

Also, I like the capstone addition for Focused Shield, I'm shocked we didn't think of that weeks ago! However, it already stops projectiles and spells with a to hit roll doesn't it?!


Only weapons that are used within 5' of yourself count as being wielded by you for the purposes of class abilities and feats that affect them.

Hrm, don't really think that's needed, but if it's liked by common consensus then fair enough I guess.

DerTollUdo
2012-03-22, 09:17 PM
The mention of phasing was because that renders the shields irrelevant.

The change to only 5' is to prevent munchkining before it starts lol.

Veklim
2012-03-23, 08:10 AM
Piercing is unuseable, fluff wise: the air is just to thick to stab.Erm.....this is entirely the wrong way around. Piercing would work better than slashing or bludgeoning in a thick atmosphere/environment. It's all about surface areas and resistance, there's a reason harpoons are still used for underwater weaponry. Bludgeoning shouldn't work at all. Slashing should take penalties but still work a little. Piercing shouldn't take much (if any) penalty at all.

Veklim
2012-03-23, 09:12 AM
OK, here we go (I realise the last post was a little...terse, sorry :smallredface:). This is how I think a thickened atmosphere like this should go:

The penalty to hit should apply to all attacks.
Bludgeoning damage should be halved, and I'd consider turning it into subdual damage too. Slashing damage should be halved, but not subdual. Piercing should take a penalty to damage equal to the penalty to hit, nothing more.

Considering the TK already has shields by this point, and can happily mulch a single pesky ranged target in short enough order, I don't see a need to worry about it so much with Lockdown too. Lockdown (as I'm seeing it) is already a potent anti-magic/melee ability, and ranged combat (outside of phasing arrows, which I don't have a problem with personally, see my next point) is already dealt with so we should focus on the up-close element. Lockdown is what happens after the barbarian pushes through your shield/s and the wizard teleports past it.
Side note: Is the name 'Lockdown' in reference to Ghosts from SC by any chance? I keep seeing a TK with a helmet and a sniper rifle in my head...it's slightly odd.

Phasing arrows represent something I like to refer to as a 'soft spot'. There should always be a way of getting around a pre-epic defence, and this is the way of getting around a TK's shields. Fine by me. I'll get shot, it'll hurt, I'll then make the blighter's face explode/implode, slap a lockdown on them, throw a few weapons at him, then pick them up and laugh whilst my 8 weapons surround him... There are other options, we don't have to try and cover every defence, just every area of defence. We've just about done that already, and Lockdown represents the pinnacle of local area BFC. We already have shield for ranged/movement BFC, and we have weapons for the tactical control, plus Far Trick of course, which speaks for itself.

What I'm saying is, the TK has numerous means at hand (pun intended) for dealing directly with someone using phasing arrows, not everyone will have them, I'm sure (unless you run a rather odd world?!), and even when someone does have them, there's a whole world of pain ready to greet them if they use one on a wary TK.

DerTollUdo
2012-03-23, 11:57 AM
As for Lockdown, no it is not inspired by the Ghosts lol.
As to the weapon penalties and such, it is supposed to be that the molecules and such are actually being slowed down by your Hands. This makes it far more thick and and harder to move. Eventually becoming so thick it is basically solid (blocks Line of Effect), and finally just stopping magic from being able to be created within it.

I really don't know what the weapon penalties would/should be. It was loosely based on the water penalties, but as I don't really understand them, I made up my own :P

How about this, mostly our idea: all melee works, and all take penalties. B/S are half damage B is nonlethal. No dmg penalty for P.

Because what you suggested could be rendered useless by ramping up the penalty.

The phasing I can understand. My DM is just a fan of creating "fire teams" which are basically mooks with super weapons. They all basically shoot volleys of super ammo too. This ammo includes Phasing lol. But oh well, not a big deal.

So, with the weapon changes, should I add the ability to the class? Is it ready?

Veklim
2012-03-23, 03:44 PM
So, with the weapon changes, should I add the ability to the class? Is it ready?

Hrm...make the changes, yeah. We can tweak in situ once it's up there, and it fills a hole in the upper level defences. I'll read it all in one place then, and review the whole as I can. :smallbiggrin:
No TKF feats yet, might do one or two later this evening, pending spare moments..! :smallamused:

DerTollUdo
2012-03-23, 05:42 PM
Alright, added Lockdown to the class. Added, the restriction to Shields, Lockdown, and Singularity. Also added updates to the capstone. Look over those for me?

Re'ozul
2012-03-24, 05:52 AM
I am still of the opinion that coupling the penalties and the size increase of lockdown makes the ability ridiculous.
If it blocks your own line of effect the lvl 16 ability is okay, otherwise you are basically impossible to combat at that point.

Singularity is still the mook-killer, but since it comes at lvl 19 thats of little consequence.

DerTollUdo
2012-03-24, 10:39 AM
Technically, none of your own abilities state they need Line of Effect. They just need to be in your TK range and maybe have Line of Sight.

What is your exact problem with linking the penalty and size? I see no issue since it will only really hurt ranged, but you can just box in your ranged opponents and they just fail. And that is with a significantly smaller amount of Hands.

And since the class only really has 1 "mook killer" like ability and it only arrives at level 19 i see no issue.

Veklim
2012-03-24, 02:11 PM
I'm with Re'ozul on this one I'm afraid, the hands used to increase size for Lockdown shouldn't count towards the penalty increases. We already do this with other abilities in the class and Lockdown will become too much if left as is right now.

Also, I think requiring line of sight OR a way of 'seeing' your target directly is appropriate for abilities in this class. Should probably state as much in the Hands entry somewhere.

DerTollUdo
2012-03-24, 03:57 PM
Alright, I'll add that the abilities require LoS.

We still need to settle combining abilities...put up a new version on that, check it out.

If we are going to seperate them, then I feel it should be -2/Hand. Otherwise it is not enough I feel...put it up, check it out.

Veklim
2012-03-24, 05:58 PM
The new wording for multi-actions is pretty tight actually, and the -4/additional works fine with me. Think we can actually agree on some middle ground there! :smalltongue:


If we are going to seperate them, then I feel it should be -2/Hand. Otherwise it is not enough I feel...put it up, check it out.
Have had a stab at re-presenting Lockdown. So let's have a look at it with my editor's glasses on, think I can tidy it up a bit...

Lockdown (SU):
At level 13 you learn how to use you Hands to slow the molecules within an area. As a move action you may create a sphere of dense air by using 1 Hand. The sphere is 5' in radius and may be placed anywhere within the range of your Hands.

Thrown weapons cannot be used within the sphere, even when launched from outside. Ranged attacks with all other weapons or ranged spells take a -2 penalty on attack rolls for every 5' they travel through this effect, in addition to their normal penalties for range.
Melee attacks take a -2 penalty to hit, and in addition Bludgeoning and Slashing attacks deal half damage, and Bludgeoning damage becomes exclusively nonlethal within the field (as if the weapon were Merciful). Melee Piercing weapons take a penalty to damage equal to the penalty to hit. Weapons which deal more than one type of damage at a time like a morningstar are considered whichever type would be least beneficial (so that morningstar would be considered Bludgeoning for this purpose, even though it also does Piercing damage under normal conditions).

Creatures within the area of the Lockdown must make a Fort save if they wish to move. If they pass they may move up to 1/2 of their speed. If they fail by 4 or less, they may only move up to 1/4 of their move speed. Failure by 5 or more means the attempt to move fails and the action is wasted.

You may augment Lockdown with additional Hands in one or more of the ways detailed below:
Increase the radius of your Lockdown by 5'/Hand
Increase all penalties to hit (melee, ranged and spells) by 2/Hand
Increase the save DC by 1/Hand
Any Hand invested this way only gives a bonus for the chosen area (i.e. if you want to increase the penalty by 4 and increase the DC by 4, you would need to invest 6 additional Hands)

You cannot form multiple Lockdowns in any square occupied or affected by Focused Shield or Singularity. A Freedom of Movement effect removes the melee attack penalties and movement penalty.

At level 16 any area you Lockdown becomes so dense that it blocks Line of Effect (as if it were solid), but not Line of Sight. It also causes Teleportation and Teleportation-like effects to fail within the Lockdown. A Freedom of Movement effect no longer removes the attack and movement penalties, and does not remove the Teleportation failure.

What do you think? Tidied up the arrangement slightly, made the augmenting as clear as I could whilst staying concise and added a couple of points I thought needed clarification. Reworded slightly to cut down on clause repetition.

On a side note, discovered a horrific combo using Far Trick (bullrushing), 4 weapons idling and 1 pumped up Focused Shield, can you see where I'm going yet? Certainly not broken or anything, but I'm starting to see more and more combinations with these effects, and once my high levellers get rolling we can test out our new guns (Lockdown and Singularity).

DerTollUdo
2012-03-24, 08:03 PM
I like your wording. It fits nicely. You do realize though that you made some aspects even better?

As to the combo you mentioned, you know that when they get bullrushed into a shield they use the check result that launced them instead of their own if it is higher, right?

Veklim
2012-03-24, 08:13 PM
I like your wording. It fits nicely. You do realize though that you made some aspects even better?Yes, I realise, but I think it's now a little smoother around the edges for it. :smallamused:


As to the combo you mentioned, you know that when they get bullrushed into a shield they use the check result that launced them instead of their own if it is higher, right? Yup, doesn't matter all that much, either way they take the shield damage too, plus you can do it all again next round either way! :smallbiggrin:

EDIT:
Just noticed I missed one small but important bit in Lockdown. Add the underlined below:

Melee Piercing weapons take a penalty to damage equal to the penalty to hit. Weapons which deal more than one type of damage at a time like a morningstar are considered whichever type would be least beneficial (so that morningstar would be considered Bludgeoning for this purpose, even though it also does Piercing damage under normal conditions).

DerTollUdo
2012-03-24, 10:50 PM
The part that got stronger is that you made it stop FoM at level 16. With that, what does mr. fighter do when he gets caught? He dies. That is what.

As to the combo it is cool :)

And edit your post with your fix to lockdown. Then I just copy pasta that one post to the main class.

Re'ozul
2012-03-25, 06:42 AM
Honestly I think we are making this class too indestructible in combat.

At level 9 ranged is hosed (focused shield) and melee is greatly inconvenienced (also focused shield)
At lvl 13 ranged becomes completely irrelevant (lockdown just stops that) and melee has an even harder time.
At lvl 16 magic is hosed.
At lvl 19 mass attacks work in favor of you (Singularity)
At lvl 21 (if you take the epic version of combat reflexes) a lot of enemies die in the first round since any movement allows an AoO and you have infinite of them.

All you need to do is encapsule youself into a lockdown sphere and surround it with shields.