View Full Version : If you combine the DMG NPC classes, how powerful is it?

2011-12-08, 03:50 PM
Class Skills: Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skills taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Speak Language (Int), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Use Rope (Dex).
Skill Points at first level: 6 + Int x4
skill Points: 6 + Int

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special


2nd|+2|+3|+0|+3|Summon Familiar




















{table=head]Spells Known/Per-Day
{table=head]Level | 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5
1st | 3 | 1 | - | - | - | -
2nd | 3 | 1 | - | - | - | -
3rd | 3 | 2 | - | - | - | -
4th | 3 | 2 | 0 | - | - | -
5th | 3 | 2 | 1 | - | - | -
6th | 3 | 2 | 1 | - | - | -
7th | 3 | 3 | 2 | - | - | -
8th | 3 | 3 | 2 | 0 | - | -
9th | 3 | 3 | 2 | 1 | - | -
10th | 3 | 3 | 2 | 1 | - | -
11th | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2 | - | -
12th | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 0 | -
13th | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 1 | -
14th | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 1 | -
15th | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2 | -
16th | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 0
17th | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 1
18th | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 1
19th | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2
20th | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Gestalt NPC class.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Gestalt NPCs are skilled with all simple and martial weapons. Adepts are proficient with any type of armor and with shields, but not tower shields.

Spells: A Gestalt NPC casts divine spells which are drawn from the Gestalt NPC spell list (see below). Like a cleric, a Gestalt NPC must choose and prepare her spells in advance. Unlike a cleric, a Gestalt NPC cannot spontaneously cast cure or inflict spells.
To prepare or cast a spell, a Gestalt NPC must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a Gestalt NPC’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the Gestalt NPC’s Wisdom modifier.
Gestalt NPCs, unlike wizards, do not acquire their spells from books or scrolls, nor do they prepare them through study. Instead, they meditate or pray for their spells, receiving them as divine inspiration or through their own strength of faith. Each Gestalt NPC must choose a time each day at which she must spend an hour in quiet contemplation or supplication to regain her daily allotment of spells. Time spent resting has no effect on whether a Gestalt NPC can prepare spells.
Like other spellcasters, a Gestalt NPC can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Gestalt NPC. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Wisdom score.
When Table: The Gestalt NPC indicates that the Gestalt NPC gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level, she gains only the bonus spells she would be entitled to based on her Wisdom score for that spell level.
Each Gestalt NPC has a particular holy symbol (as a divine focus) depending on the Gestalt NPC’s magical tradition.

Summon Familiar: At 2nd level, an Gestalt NPC can call a familiar, just as a sorcerer or wizard can.

Gestalt NPC Spell List
Gestalt NPCs choose their spells from the following list.
0 Level: create water, cure minor wounds, detect magic, ghost sound, guidance, light, mending, purify food and drink, read magic, touch of fatigue.
1st Level: bless, burning hands, cause fear, command, comprehend languages, cure light wounds, detect chaos, detect evil, detect good, detect law, endure elements, obscuring mist, protection from chaos, protection from evil, protection from good, protection from law, sleep.
2nd Level: aid, animal trance, bear’s endurance, bull’s strength, cat’s grace, cure moderate wounds, darkness, delay poison, invisibility, mirror image, resist energy, scorching ray, see invisibility, web.
3rd Level: animate dead, bestow curse, contagion, continual flame, cure serious wounds, daylight, deeper darkness, lightning bolt, neutralize poison, remove curse, remove disease, tongues.
4th Level: cure critical wounds, minor creation, polymorph, restoration, stoneskin, wall of fire.
5th Level: baleful polymorph, break enchantment, commune, heal, major creation, raise dead, true seeing, wall of stone.

I didn't include the expert's 10 class skills because it already has way more than ten, (I don't think there's 10 skills left, anyway), but maybe UMD should be added in to account for those skills.

so, what tier is this ungodly mess at?

2011-12-08, 04:04 PM
Hmm, an aristocratic warrior with a small pool of divine spells... I can't think of any classes in the SRD to compare that to, but it seems like a pretty decent mid- or low-tier class. Someone else who's better at this will come along though!

2011-12-08, 04:12 PM

Are you adding in Eberron's Domain for Adepts strategy? If not, I suggest you do so. For ****s and giggles.

And I would suggest sticking the "any 10 skills" back in Make them have all skills as class skills. Yes, it isn't a direct translation, but seriously, adding 10 skills of your choice to that list would give you ALL skills.

2011-12-08, 04:19 PM
Tier 3? Adept on its own is tier 4, apparently. Bumping up the HD and BAB and giving it armor proficiency has to be worth something, and it would probably make a passable gish.

2011-12-08, 04:56 PM
With all skills as class skills, probably low T3. It has nothing really spectacular, but can do a number of things passably. The more spectacular T3s like Warlock and Warblade can excel much more in one area, but this meets the benchmark of T3-ness.

2011-12-08, 05:40 PM
What about the Magewright NPC class from Eberron?

2011-12-08, 06:53 PM
Oddly reminiscient of a ranger chassis, but slightly weaker HP, no real class features, better skill selection, slightly stronger spellcasting and funkier spell list. Maybe call it the Hero? :smallbiggrin:

Mando Knight
2011-12-08, 11:56 PM
Full BAB, good skills, acceptable hit die, 5th-level casting, it's definitely tier 3. Low tier 3 because it's probably most similar to a weakened Bard (better BAB, HD, and Fort, but misses out on some spellcasting ability and miscellaneous class features).

Viktyr Gehrig
2011-12-09, 01:32 PM
What about the Magewright NPC class from Eberron?

Throw it in, as a separate spellcasting progression. You'd have an interesting chassis to Gestalt with Chameleon.

Morph Bark
2011-12-10, 05:33 AM
Keeping in the "add 10 skills of your choice" from the Expert would practically grant you all skills and class skills. Add in the Magewright and you've got a gishy-theurge-in-a-can. The only sad part is that you don't have any passive class abilities, like auras, bardic music, etc., otherwise this class would be in the top of Tier 3, I figure.

As is, I'm thinking it is slightly better than the Adept, but not by much. Not enough to raise it a Tier, so Tier 4, but high Tier 4. On par with a more skillfull Paladin.

Deth Muncher
2011-12-11, 03:55 PM
Personally, if I ran this, I'd probably also allow the variant rules in UA that let you take Class Features as Feats (for the Generic Class, as presented there).

This is actually kind of a neat idea, and I could see this being a good alternative to Commoner for a civilization much higher up in the magic-spectrum than the default, and perhaps a little more "militaristic" than your standard civilization, given their full BAB.

I dunno. I like it. I would also consider adding the Magewright in, as mentioned below, if you want it to definitely be Gishier, but if not, I think it's a fine NPC class. And like I say, with the Features as Feats rule, you can pretty well build whatever you want in terms of NPCs.

2011-12-11, 09:37 PM
I'd say Tier 4, same as adept. Average->Full BAB and good skills don't provide enough extra options to push it into Tier 3 territory.

Re: magewright I'd say just sum the spell lists and spells per day.