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AshesOfOld
2011-12-10, 10:38 AM
I just wanted to share something with all of you. It's been annoying the crap out of me.
Why do the best adventure movies have the most misleading feminine fancylad-like childish girly titles?

I'll just throw in a few:
Stardust - an amazing journey, including swordplay, witches and Robert de Niro as a lightning-catching homosexual airpirate.

The Princess Bride - possibly the best fantasy adventure I saw as a child, before Lord of the Rings hit the shelves.

Please discuss, name more misleading titles, or combat my argument with manly titles from your youth.

Mr.Silver
2011-12-10, 10:56 AM
I can't help noticing that both films you've picked are adaptations of books. Books traditionally use blurbs to convey information about what the work in question actually involves.

Weezer
2011-12-10, 12:37 PM
And they were both parodies, with Stardust parodying fairy tales and Princess Bride parodying Adventure Romances. It's not too surprising that parodies often have a wider audience than what they're parodying, both fans and haters of what is being made fun of can enjoy it.

So I don't know if those two count, they were tongue in cheek titles for parodies.

Thufir
2011-12-10, 01:08 PM
And they were both parodies, with Stardust parodying fairy tales

Wait, what?
In what way is Stardust a parody?

Weezer
2011-12-10, 01:20 PM
Wait, what?
In what way is Stardust a parody?

Maybe parody is the wrong word, but a tongue in cheek exploration of fairy tale stereotypes? Definitely.

Dr.Epic
2011-12-10, 01:20 PM
Does this count? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_2):smallwink:

Weezer
2011-12-10, 01:23 PM
Does this count? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_2):smallwink:

That is certainly misleading, I mean it doesn't even have any trolls in it! :smallbiggrin:

Dr.Epic
2011-12-10, 01:25 PM
That is certainly misleading, I mean it doesn't even have any trolls in it! :smallbiggrin:

It's also not a sequel.:smallwink:

Thufir
2011-12-10, 01:29 PM
Maybe parody is the wrong word, but a tongue in cheek exploration of fairy tale stereotypes? Definitely.

Erm, no, still not really seeing it.
Hang on, are you talking about the film or the book? If the film, then maybe a bit, but I still wouldn't call it a defining feature of the story.

Dr.Epic
2011-12-10, 01:33 PM
How about the Final Fantasy series, you know, considering that, none of the games were the "Final" one?

Or the Never Ending Story? The run time should be eternity!:smallwink:

Weezer
2011-12-10, 01:37 PM
Erm, no, still not really seeing it.
Hang on, are you talking about the film or the book? If the film, then maybe a bit, but I still wouldn't call it a defining feature of the story.

Talking about both, maybe I'm just remembering things very differently than they actually came across, but from what I recall there was a lot of lampshading of fairy tale stereotypes, enough that it came across as tongue in cheek.

TheThan
2011-12-10, 02:01 PM
Romancing the Stone (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088011/) is a wonderful adventure film. But from the title youd think itd be a romance movie.

TheArsenal
2011-12-10, 03:44 PM
Romancing the Stone (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088011/) is a wonderful adventure film. But from the title youd think itd be a romance movie.

Or some REALY obscure porno.

Weezer
2011-12-10, 03:48 PM
Or some REALY obscure porno.

Is it sad that there is a gif that immediately springs to mind that would fit? I've been on the internet too long...

TheArsenal
2011-12-10, 04:00 PM
Is it sad that there is a gif that immediately springs to mind that would fit? I've been on the internet too long...

Its up to you to decide....................But the answer is yes.

kamikasei
2011-12-10, 04:03 PM
Why do the best adventure movies have the most misleading feminine fancylad-like titles?
To encourage you to be less "oh gross this movie seems like it might in some way involve girls, I must shun it or I'll get cooties"?

Tirian
2011-12-10, 04:33 PM
Romancing the Stone (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088011/) is a wonderful adventure film. But from the title youd think itd be a romance movie.

Well, it is. The female lead is a romance novelist, the theme of the movie is that guys in "the real world" are less dependably awesome than fictional characters, and I don't think it's too much a spoiler to reveal that the adventure becomes the basis for her next best-seller.

Like with The Princess Bride, guys seem capable of overlooking that the glue that ties the action scenes together is a highly romantic storyline. Perhaps you're running off to the fridge to get a new beer during the slow spots. :smallwink:

(Also, for all the threads we've had about excellent 80's movies that shouldn't be missed, I don't recall nearly enough love being given to Romancing the Stone. Kathleen Turner and Michael Douglass are THE post-studio romantic couple, and this is their film.)

Sunken Valley
2011-12-10, 04:55 PM
Naked Lunch! and the Squid and the Whale.

I think more titles should be like Snakes on a plane. Nice and honest. It had memetic snakes on a memetic plane

Seraph
2011-12-10, 05:23 PM
Naked Lunch!


the title actually makes sense if you understand that its a metaphor and is, essentially, meant to describe the exact opposite of an euphemism.

TheThan
2011-12-12, 08:41 PM
Well, it is. The female lead is a romance novelist, the theme of the movie is that guys in "the real world" are less dependably awesome than fictional characters, and I don't think it's too much a spoiler to reveal that the adventure becomes the basis for her next best-seller.

Like with The Princess Bride, guys seem capable of overlooking that the glue that ties the action scenes together is a highly romantic storyline. Perhaps you're running off to the fridge to get a new beer during the slow spots. :smallwink:

(Also, for all the threads we've had about excellent 80's movies that shouldn't be missed, I don't recall nearly enough love being given to Romancing the Stone. Kathleen Turner and Michael Douglass are THE post-studio romantic couple, and this is their film.)


Exactly, there is romance in the film, but its not a Romance film. Its an adventure flick. I strongly recommend this film to anyone who hasn't seen it.

Feytalist
2011-12-13, 02:07 AM
Maybe parody is the wrong word, but a tongue in cheek exploration of fairy tale stereotypes? Definitely.

I think I get what you're getting at. Partway deconstruction, perhaps. Stardust follows a simple fairytale story with all the usual fantasy staples, but there is a sort of a self-awareness to the whole story, especially the book. Understandable, really, as it was written by Gaiman.

Weezer
2011-12-13, 02:32 AM
I think I get what you're getting at. Partway deconstruction, perhaps. Stardust follows a simple fairytale story with all the usual fantasy staples, but there is a sort of a self-awareness to the whole story, especially the book. Understandable, really, as it was written by Gaiman.

Glad someone else sees it, I was starting to get afraid my recollection was completely wrong and I don't like when that happens.

Serpentine
2011-12-13, 05:42 AM
Why do the best adventure movies have the most misleading feminine fancylad-like titles?1. They're not misleading (see below), and 2. the ****'s wrong with something being "feminine"? :smallconfused:

Stardust - an amazing journey, including swordplay, witches and Robert de Niro as a lightning-catching homosexual airpirate.It's about stars, and star dust. I.e., the title indicates exactly what the story's about, as much as any other title - or would you prefer it be called "A Kid From The "Real World" Goes Into Fairyland And Scores A Hot Star Girlfriend"? Also: what's so "feminine fancylad-like" about "stardust"? :smallconfused: Hell, it's even an astronomical term (if not a technical one).

The Princess Bride - possibly the best fantasy adventure I saw as a child, before Lord of the Rings hit the shelves.It's a story about a girl who's made into a princess so she can become a bride - a princess bride, if you will. Also, the story is a parody/deconstruction of similar stories, and the title is deliberately "girly" - part of the point is that the kid's leery of it because of the story ("Is this a kissing book?").
Again, it's not the least bit misleading, and the "femininity" is neither accidental nor bad.

GolemsVoice
2011-12-13, 06:41 AM
Amusingly, the German title of "Romancing the Stone" is "On the Hunt for the Green Diamond". Now THAT'S straightforward.

Scarlet Knight
2011-12-13, 08:56 AM
Or some REALY obscure porno.

You're thinking of Romancing the Bone and yes, I am ashamed of knowing that...:smallredface:

AshesOfOld
2011-12-13, 09:49 AM
1. They're not misleading (see below), and 2. the ****'s wrong with something being "feminine"? :smallconfused:

Nothing. There's nothing wrong with anything being feminine. Except that it in this case is misleading. I don't watch romance movies. Do I watch adventure movies with romance in them? Hells yeah.


It's about stars, and star dust. I.e., the title indicates exactly what the story's about, as much as any other title - or would you prefer it be called "A Kid From The "Real World" Goes Into Fairyland And Scores A Hot Star Girlfriend"? Also: what's so "feminine fancylad-like" about "stardust"? :smallconfused: Hell, it's even an astronomical term (if not a technical one).
And that's fine too. Except that the movie is NOT about the stardust. Yes, the wall and the star being living or a rock is an important sideplot, but the actual story is about a boy becoming a man, through dangerous adventure and self-realisation. I'm sorry if the words offend you, but I'm a guy's guy, and as such I normally look past movie titles like "Stardust" because I associate it with glitter and ponies and little angelbabies. Maybe that's just me. The movie itself contains neither of those, and that is my issue.


It's a story about a girl who's made into a princess so she can become a bride - a princess bride, if you will. Also, the story is a parody/deconstruction of similar stories, and the title is deliberately "girly" - part of the point is that the kid's leery of it because of the story ("Is this a kissing book?").
Again, it's not the least bit misleading, and the "femininity" is neither accidental nor bad.

Again, I think the whole princess getting married is really more of a subplot. It gives the hero a reason to be heroic. Sure, the story is about love conquers all and it is very much a parody, but most of all it's an adventure movie, with classic adventure-like heroism. And it's not a kissing book. That's the whole point. It only starts out like that, which the grandpa explains, so why on earth try to market it as one? It may be deliberate, but that doesn't make it good or appropriate.

kamikasei
2011-12-13, 10:14 AM
I'm a guy's guy, and as such I normally look past movie titles like "Stardust" because I associate it with glitter and ponies and little angelbabies. Maybe that's just me.
It's not just you, but it's most certainly your problem rather than the movie's. You're saying a story about a quest for a fallen star shouldn't be called "Stardust" because it's actually about coming of age and self-discovery, and because you have a knee-jerk aversion to anything that hints at femininity. You've learned it's unwise to take such a superficial view - great! Perhaps you might incorporate that lesson in to your life rather than wishing the world were more superficial so you didn't have to change your mind.

I'm mildly curious what you would have considered a better title.

Jahkaivah
2011-12-13, 10:21 AM
1. They're not misleading (see below), and 2. the ****'s wrong with something being "feminine"? :smallconfused:
It's about stars, and star dust. I.e., the title indicates exactly what the story's about, as much as any other title - or would you prefer it be called "A Kid From The "Real World" Goes Into Fairyland And Scores A Hot Star Girlfriend"? Also: what's so "feminine fancylad-like" about "stardust"? :smallconfused: Hell, it's even an astronomical term (if not a technical one).
It's a story about a girl who's made into a princess so she can become a bride - a princess bride, if you will. Also, the story is a parody/deconstruction of similar stories, and the title is deliberately "girly" - part of the point is that the kid's leery of it because of the story ("Is this a kissing book?").
Again, it's not the least bit misleading, and the "femininity" is neither accidental nor bad.

TELL ME.

IF ONE IS MISLED BY SOMETHING, IS IT NOT MISLEADING?!?!?

Serpentine
2011-12-13, 10:55 AM
TELL ME.

IF ONE IS MISLED BY SOMETHING, IS IT NOT MISLEADING?!?!?Why the shouting? :smallconfused:
And not if the person is apparently taking an incredibly narrow view of what a story is "about" and therefore going out of their way to "be misled".

Stardust is about a star. It's also about "coming of age". But it's about a star. And its dust. Thus: Stardust.

And The Princess Bride is about a princess bride. It's also about adventure. But it's also about a princess bride.

Put it this way: the "stardust" and the "princess bride" are both the plot devices of their respective stories*. It's downright standard practice for books to be named after their plot devices. This is exactly the same as complaining about the title of The Lord of the Rings because "it's not about the rings! Sure, they're an important subplot, but the story is actually about brotherhood and the loss of innocence." It's exactly as "misleading" as that.

*And it's bad enough that these two female characters can be reduced to such a status, without complaining about them getting acknowledged at all.

Jahkaivah
2011-12-13, 11:08 AM
Why the shouting? :smallconfused:
And not if the person is apparently taking an incredibly narrow view of what a story is "about" and therefore going out of their way to "be misled".

Stardust is about a star. It's also about "coming of age". But it's about a star. And its dust. Thus: Stardust.

And The Princess Bride is about a princess bride. It's also about adventure. But it's also about a princess bride.

Put it this way: the "stardust" and the "princess bride" are both the plot devices of their respective stories*. It's downright standard practice for books to be named after their plot devices. This is exactly the same as complaining about the title of The Lord of the Rings because "it's not about the rings! Sure, they're an important subplot, but the story is actually about brotherhood and the loss of innocence." It's exactly as "misleading" as that.

*And it's bad enough that these two female characters can be reduced to such a status, without complaining about them getting acknowledged at all.

IF ONE HAS RAN, HAVE THEY NOT BEEN RUNNING?!

IF ONE HAS BUILT, HAVE THEY NOT BEEN BUILDING?!

IF ONE IS DRUNK, HAVE THEY NOT BEEN DRINKING?!

warty goblin
2011-12-13, 11:57 AM
It's not just you, but it's most certainly your problem rather than the movie's. You're saying a story about a quest for a fallen star shouldn't be called "Stardust" because it's actually about coming of age and self-discovery, and because you have a knee-jerk aversion to anything that hints at femininity. You've learned it's unwise to take such a superficial view - great! Perhaps you might incorporate that lesson in to your life rather than wishing the world were more superficial so you didn't have to change your mind.

I'm mildly curious what you would have considered a better title.

Thank you very much for this post. It perfectly encapsulates everything I found questionable and obnoxious in this thread in much less confrontational language than I would have employed, and ends on just the right note.

Friv
2011-12-13, 02:22 PM
IF ONE IS DRUNK, HAVE THEY NOT BEEN DRINKING?!

I don't know, have you been? :smalltongue:


Sorry, couldn't resist.

Anyway, to the OP, I think you need to consider why you're so averse to any hint of femininity. Frankly, I don't want every movie I watch to be Kickpuncher: The Kickening. The fact is, Princess Bride is, in fact, both an action movie and a love story. So is Stardust. Princess Bride has a tongue-in-cheek name, because it's a tongue-in-cheek kind of movie, and Stardust is frankly an awesome and evocative name.

Feytalist
2011-12-14, 02:40 AM
IF ONE HAS RAN, HAVE THEY NOT BEEN RUNNING?!

IF ONE HAS BUILT, HAVE THEY NOT BEEN BUILDING?!

IF ONE IS DRUNK, HAVE THEY NOT BEEN DRINKING?!

If one types like this, have they not been shouting?


(The answer is yes. Yes, they have.)

Cespenar
2011-12-14, 03:03 AM
It is highly probable that he's making a pun/reference/etc. to something instead of just yelling, but never mind me.

Jahkaivah
2011-12-14, 08:54 AM
Can't a guy just dramatically point out the fairly obvious? You people have no sense of theatrics, and too willing to call others shallow.

kamikasei
2011-12-14, 09:01 AM
Can't a guy just dramatically point out the fairly obvious? You people have no sense of theatrics...
Help me out here. If something is misleading so long as anyone anywhere gets the wrong impression from it for any reason, then how is it a flaw in your audience rather than your delivery if your theatrics aren't well received?

Jahkaivah
2011-12-14, 09:07 AM
Help me out here. If something is misleading so long as anyone anywhere gets the wrong impression from it for any reason, then how is it a flaw in your audience rather than your delivery if your theatrics aren't well received?

Because you just fell into my trap.

You either that to concede that it is misleading or that you have no sense of theatrics.

Alternatively both could still remain a possibility.

kamikasei
2011-12-14, 09:12 AM
Because you fell into my trap.

You either that to concede that it is misleading or that you have no sense of theatrics.
Or that your theatrics are senseless.

Jahkaivah
2011-12-14, 09:19 AM
Or that your theatrics are senseless.

Fun fact: Before this conversation started I had repeatedly smashed my head against a wall because I was already in a pretty bad mood.

kamikasei
2011-12-14, 09:23 AM
Fun fact: Before this conversation started I had repeatedly smashed my head against a wall because I was already in a pretty bad mood.
Maybe you should deal with that on your own time instead of mine and others', then?

Jahkaivah
2011-12-14, 11:04 AM
Right, I took you're advice and let my head clear a bit.

To be honest, not sure why we're even having this conversation, you've already agreed that The Princess Bride (I haven't seen Stardust) has a misleading title.

kamikasei
2011-12-14, 11:10 AM
To be honest, not sure why we're even having this conversation, you've already agreed that The Princess Bride (I haven't seen Stardust) has a misleading title.
I haven't said a thing about The Princess Bride. If you want to suggest I've somehow implicitly agreed as you say because of how I did or didn't respond to you so far, there's your reason why I, at least, am in this conversation - because dishonesty annoys me and I sometimes bother to point it out. That accomplished, though, it also seems an excellent reason to waste no further time on the topic.

Serpentine
2011-12-14, 11:10 AM
:confused:
It's not just you, but it's most certainly your problem rather than the movie's. You're saying a story about a quest for a fallen star shouldn't be called "Stardust" because it's actually about coming of age and self-discovery, and because you have a knee-jerk aversion to anything that hints at femininity. You've learned it's unwise to take such a superficial view - great! Perhaps you might incorporate that lesson in to your life rather than wishing the world were more superficial so you didn't have to change your mind.

I'm mildly curious what you would have considered a better title.I'm not seeing anything that comes close to "agreeing" with that.

Fiery Diamond
2011-12-14, 01:57 PM
Count me in agreement with warty goblin, Serpentine, and kamikasei.

Also, Stardust is an awesome name for an awesome movie.

Jahkaivah
2011-12-14, 02:13 PM
Wow a guy admits to bodily self harm and you don't even give him a break.


You horrible people.

Dr.Epic
2011-12-14, 02:15 PM
To Kill A Mockingbird

That book told me nothing about killing mockingbirds. Now How To Kill A Mockingbird was very informative.

Hit it with the MOON!

The Glyphstone
2011-12-14, 02:22 PM
Wow a guy admits to bodily self harm and you don't even give him a break.


You horrible people.

Cutting your wrists is 'bodily self harm'. Hitting your head against the wall is not, unless you succeed in doing so hard enough to leave bruises or cause a concussion (and if so, how are you in any condition to post on a message board?).

warty goblin
2011-12-14, 02:23 PM
Cutting your wrists is 'bodily self harm'. Hitting your head against the wall is not, unless you succeed in doing so hard enough to leave bruises or cause a concussion (and if so, how are you in any condition to post on a message board?).

I've had homework assignments so frustrating I've been known to haul off and punch a brick wall. Shockingly what this taught me is that getting that angry and hitting things until my knuckles bled just hurt a lot, and was therefore probably stupid. For one thing the homework didn't go away.

The Glyphstone
2011-12-14, 02:41 PM
I've had homework assignments so frustrating I've been known to haul off and punch a brick wall. Shockingly what this taught me is that getting that angry and hitting things until my knuckles bled just hurt a lot, and was therefore probably stupid. For one thing the homework didn't go away.

Alternatively, wait five minutes between punches for Mountain Hammer to recharge. Won't make the homework go away (unless you Mountain Hammer it instead) though.:smallbiggrin:

thubby
2011-12-14, 08:03 PM
if we count things other than movies.
naruto: its mostly about sasuke :smallsigh:

Dr.Epic
2011-12-14, 10:30 PM
if we count things other than movies.
naruto: its mostly about sasuke :smallsigh:

In that case, I nominate Bleach for the champion of misleading names.

That show has like zero amount of cleaning product.:smallwink:

Serpentine
2011-12-14, 10:31 PM
I never saw even one fruit basket in Fruits Basket.

Also, Labyrinth wasn't about the labyrinth. It was about a girl's transition from spoilt, immature child to responsible adult.

Dr.Epic
2011-12-14, 10:46 PM
Also, Labyrinth wasn't about the labyrinth. It was about a girl's transition from spoilt, immature child to responsible adult.

*facepalm*

Where does the story mainly take place? What is the girl trying to get out of/through?

turkishproverb
2011-12-14, 10:49 PM
It's also not a sequel.:smallwink:

It has a box set with the first one (http://www.amazon.com/Troll-2-Michael-Moriarty/dp/B00009PY4I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1323920931&sr=8-1). It's an official sequel now.

Dr.Epic
2011-12-14, 10:51 PM
It has a box set with the first one (http://www.amazon.com/Troll-2-Michael-Moriarty/dp/B00009PY4I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1323920931&sr=8-1). It's an official sequel now.

Because that makes it a sequel. You can get a ton of sci fi films in box sets that have no connections to each other or a box set of a few films that all star the same actor.

Serpentine
2011-12-14, 10:51 PM
*facepalm*

Where does the story mainly take place? What is the girl trying to get out of/through?http://www.diablofans.com/uploads/941.jpg

Weezer
2011-12-14, 11:02 PM
Also, Labyrinth wasn't about the labyrinth. It was about a girl's transition from spoilt, immature child to responsible adult.

And here I was all this time thinking it was about David Bowie in grey tights and absolutely horrific hair.

Serpentine
2011-12-14, 11:26 PM
That's an important subplot :smallwink:

Mr.Silver
2011-12-15, 09:16 AM
To be honest, unless the title is trying to be ironic or obtuse, pretty much all the time someone claims to have been 'misled' by the title of a work of fiction the fault is usually with them. Title's aren't meant to act as summaries of a work's content and really should not be approached with that level of literal-mindedness. Complaining about misleading titles is rather like criticising some for 'not acting like an Allen'.




Also +1 to kamikasei's point as well.

truemane
2011-12-15, 10:02 AM
Just a short informative side note to add to the general hostility.

Princess Bride got its name when William Goldman's daughters asked him to tell them a bedtime story. And he asked them what they wanted the story to be about. And one of them yelled "A PRINCESS!" and the other yelled "A BRIDE!" at the same time.

And so it was.

Imagine how surprised he was to hear them yell out the name of the Florinese book his father used to read to him when he was a child...

Serpentine
2011-12-15, 10:04 AM
That was when he discovered his father had left out all the boring bits :/

Weezer
2011-12-15, 11:46 AM
Thank god he still stuck to translating it despite the boring bits, or else that masterpiece would be stuck in a language hardly anyone can read.

Tirian
2011-12-15, 12:09 PM
On the other hand, noted Florinese-American Stephen King might have gotten around to doing it.

Zigg'rrauglurr
2011-12-15, 12:24 PM
Since some are being angry and such. I just wanted to say that I was very angry with "The Golden Compass" both for it's name and short trailers, for making me think it was a crappy movie, while it's one of the best in the genre I have seen and I still mourn that no sequel is coming, while millons are spent on doing "Dad's Penguins 2" <brrr>...

The Glyphstone
2011-12-15, 12:53 PM
On the other hand, noted Florinese-American Stephen King might have gotten around to doing it.

The Princess Bride as written by Steven King. Now that's a combination I would pay money to read.

Weezer
2011-12-15, 01:01 PM
Since some are being angry and such. I just wanted to say that I was very angry with "The Golden Compass" both for it's name and short trailers, for making me think it was a crappy movie, while it's one of the best in the genre I have seen and I still mourn that no sequel is coming, while millons are spent on doing "Dad's Penguins 2" <brrr>...
Have you read the books? Because they are about 10x better than the movie in every possible way, so if you enjoyed the movie you will love the books. In fact, as someone who read the books first I was offended by the movie at some parts, the director/writer was incredibly cowardly and cut out all the controversial bits. Plus the sequels you are missing were atually written

Though I was wondering, what's misleading about 'the Golden Compass' as a title? That's the major plot device for the movie...

Mr.Silver
2011-12-15, 01:40 PM
Have you read the books?
He liked the film, so I'd hazard a guess and say no :smalltongue:



Though I was wondering, what's misleading about 'the Golden Compass' as a title? That's the major plot device for the movie...
Although, oddly enough, it's not actually the title of the book.

kamikasei
2011-12-15, 01:49 PM
Although, oddly enough, it's not actually the title of the book.
It is in the US - sort of a Philosopher's/Sorcerer's Stone deal (although, from what Wikipedia says on the subject, done for less annoying reasons and with more authorial blessing).

truemane
2011-12-15, 02:12 PM
That was when he discovered his father had left out all the boring bits :/


Thank god he still stuck to translating it despite the boring bits, or else that masterpiece would be stuck in a language hardly anyone can read.


On the other hand, noted Florinese-American Stephen King might have gotten around to doing it.

Yes, although the daughters yelling out 'Princess' and 'Bride' at the same time is apparently actually, actually true. Like for real true. Or so Goldman says...

Mr.Silver
2011-12-15, 02:24 PM
It is in the US - sort of a Philosopher's/Sorcerer's Stone deal (although, from what Wikipedia says on the subject, done for less annoying reasons and with more authorial blessing).
In fairness, it's hard to find reasons more annoying than those behind the HP incident. It's probably one of the most stupid moments in Americanization, after all.

truemane
2011-12-15, 02:27 PM
In fairness, it's hard to find reasons more annoying than those behind the HP incident. It's probably one of the most stupid moments in Americanization, after all.

Fun fact: the Swedish title of "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo" is "Men who Hate Women."

Jahkaivah
2011-12-15, 05:11 PM
Alright, let me clear this up:

I'm sorry about the way I acted yesterday. It was a bad idea to make a post when I clearly was not in the mood to have people argue against me.

Thing was that I didn't feel that AshesOfOld, while I don't actually know how he thinks about it myself, was really complaining about the topic but merely the observing it. And was rather wanting to hear the people talk about misleading titles as opposed to wanting such adventure stories to pick another title. So I was kind of put off by some of the fairly hostile posts he received.

And to that extent, call a spade a spade on saying that a title can be called misleading if it has misled people regardless of how or why. And that it doesn't necessarily matter if it is misleading. Heck people emphasising that such books/films are better than what their title might suggest probably helps them in the long run.

So that's my views on the matter, presented in a better manner than yesterday, disagree with them if you will. I tend to have an initial aversion to spelling out what I am trying to say like this which has certainly caused me trouble in the past.


It's probably one of the most stupid moments in Americanization, after all.

Was going to comment on that, but having looked it up that is apparently not inherently an americanism.

Dr.Epic
2011-12-15, 05:16 PM
The Last Airbender: Legend of Korra. Once she learns it, there won't be a last.

Also, Spongebob Squarepants. His pants aren't square. A square has equal length and width. That's a rectangle. Further more, a square is a 2D polygon. If anything, it should be called a cube, but none of the dimensions are equal. The show should be called Spongebob Rectangular-Prismpants. That rolls off the tongue right?

Jahkaivah
2011-12-15, 05:21 PM
The Last Airbender: Legend of Korra. Once she learns it, there won't be a last.

I mentioned that on the thread that introduced you to the original show. By the looks of the leaks though it seems they may have changed it back to Avatar.

WalkingTarget
2011-12-15, 07:15 PM
Not quite the same thing, but how about "The Thin Man" not being a reference to Nick Charles and so having to shoehorn in a reason to keep that phrase in the title of any sequels (similar issues with "Pink Panther" sequels other than A Shot in the Dark).

Mr.Silver
2011-12-15, 07:29 PM
His pants aren't square. A square has equal length and width. That's a rectangle. Further more, a square is a 2D polygon. If anything, it should be called a cube, but none of the dimensions are equal. The show should be called Spongebob Rectangular-Prismpants. That rolls off the tongue right?

Squarepants is his last name, rather than a descriptor :smalltongue:



Was going to comment on that, but having looked it up that is apparently not inherently an americanism.
Indeed. Hypothetically, if someone had done that intentionally as part a small joke they might congratulate you on both catching it and ruining it simultaneously. Purely hypothetically of course :smalltongue:

Thufir
2011-12-15, 08:12 PM
In that case, I nominate Bleach for the champion of misleading names.

That show has like zero amount of cleaning product.:smallwink:

What is the reason for Bleach's title?


http://www.diablofans.com/uploads/941.jpg

Saving this image for future use...


And here I was all this time thinking it was about David Bowie in grey tights and absolutely horrific hair.

Don't be ridiculous.
It's about David Bowie's crotch. The rest of him is incidental.


Since some are being angry and such. I just wanted to say that I was very angry with "The Golden Compass" both for it's name and short trailers, for making me think it was a crappy movie, while it's one of the best in the genre I have seen and I still mourn that no sequel is coming, while millons are spent on doing "Dad's Penguins 2" <brrr>...

The aletheiometer is kinda pretty important to the plot...
And why should the title The Golden Compass make you think the movie was crappy?
(For the record, I liked the movie, but I was disappointed by some parts of it, as is almost invariably the case with film adaptations of books...)

Jahkaivah
2011-12-15, 08:29 PM
And why should the title The Golden Compass make you think the movie was crappy?

It seems... well a bit bland really.

Northern Lights is a much better title.

Weezer
2011-12-15, 08:49 PM
Don't be ridiculous.
It's about David Bowie's crotch. The rest of him is incidental.

Ahh yes, the infamous 'bulge' of the Goblin King

Mr.Silver
2011-12-15, 08:49 PM
What is the reason for Bleach's title?

Because that's what you'll want to drink if you watch it past the first season?

Dr.Epic
2011-12-15, 10:00 PM
Squarepants is his last name, rather than a descriptor :smalltongue:

Yeah, but it's meant to serve as a descriptor. Like Bugs BUNNY.


What is the reason for Bleach's title?

How is that sarcasm? What part of calling the show Bleach is ironic? It's about kids who fight undead stuff with really bad comedy elements. How does that relate to the word "bleach" in any manner?

Serpentine
2011-12-15, 10:02 PM
The Princess Bride as written by Steven King. Now that's a combination I would pay money to read.Yes please.
Though I was wondering, what's misleading about 'the Golden Compass' as a title? That's the major plot device for the movie...Didn't you hear? Naming stories after their major plot devices is misleading, because they're not really about their plot devices.
Thing was that I didn't feel that AshesOfOld, while I don't actually know how he thinks about it myself, was really complaining about the topic but merely the observing it. And was rather wanting to hear the people talk about misleading titles as opposed to wanting such adventure stories to pick another title. So I was kind of put off by some of the fairly hostile posts he received.There may be some story titles that are "misleading", although I can't actually think of any (trailers are more likely to be misleading, I think (Funny People, anyone?)), but the examples he specifically called out are not. They are about exactly what the titles say they're about. It's not even in an abstract, metaphorical, philosophical sort of a way like, say, Endless Sunshine of the Spotless Mind or Antichrist: Stardust and The Princess Bride are literally about startdust and a princess bride. To call them out specifically for being "misleading" is just nonsensical at best (sexist at worst).

edit:
How is that sarcasm? What part of calling the show Bleach is ironic? It's about kids who fight undead stuff with really bad comedy elements. How does that relate to the word "bleach" in any manner?The two were not related. He was saying thusly:

"Hey, why is Bleach called Bleach?"
NEW TOPIC
"Hey, that image is pretty neat. Think I'll keep it."

The sarcasm image was posted by me in response to you. He wasn't indicating that he was being sarcastic just then, just that he might eventually.

Tirian
2011-12-15, 10:37 PM
Northern Lights is a much better title.

You may or may not be right about the first book as a stand-alone title. But the remaining books in the trilogy are named after the artifacts used by the remaining two characters in the climax, and there is some value in the parallelism when you look at the unified trilogy of, well, was His Dark Materials are.

I suppose the title for the first book that would have best described what was inside would be Armored Polar Bear Fight! (or the British title would have been Armoured Poular Bear Fight, Ouh My!)

Jahkaivah
2011-12-15, 10:55 PM
There may be some story titles that are "misleading", although I can't actually think of any (trailers are more likely to be misleading, I think (Funny People, anyone?)), but the examples he specifically called out are not. They are about exactly what the titles say they're about. It's not even in an abstract, metaphorical, philosophical sort of a way like, say, Endless Sunshine of the Spotless Mind or Antichrist: Stardust and The Princess Bride are literally about startdust and a princess bride.

Thing is that is an overly literal way of looking at it. Ask someone who doesn't know a thing about The Princess Bride what they think the film is about, and sure they might say that it is a about a Princess Bride which is true. But ask them what they think the film actually is and you're likely to get some guesses that it is primarily a romance or a history film about a royal wedding. Essentially being misled by the title to what the film was.

In contrast, take a film of similar themes such as the first Pirates of the Caribbean film. Find someone who doesn't know a thing about it (that might be difficult) and ask them what the film is from title. And while they will also correctly guess that it is about a bunch of pirates in the Caribbean they will also probably guess that it contains a lot of adventure and swashbuckling that better sums up both films.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with a film with a potentially misleading title, but you have to call it misleading when it is.


(sexist at worst).

Honestly, it was assuming the worst about somebody which was one of the main things that was bugging me about some of the earlier posts.

Dr.Epic
2011-12-15, 10:58 PM
Regular Show. That show is anything but regular.:smallwink:

Serpentine
2011-12-16, 12:20 AM
Honestly, it was assuming the worst about somebody which was one of the main things that was bugging me about some of the earlier posts.I find it hard to imagine you could honestly say that it is unreasonable for lines like these:

Why do the best adventure movies have the most misleading feminine fancylad-like titles?
There's nothing wrong with anything being feminine. Except that it in this case is misleading. I don't watch romance movies.
...
I'm sorry if the words offend you, but I'm a guy's guy, and as such I normally look past movie titles like "Stardust" because I associate it with glitter and ponies and little angelbabies.to throw up red flags.

Weezer
2011-12-16, 12:24 AM
I find it hard to imagine you could honestly say that it is unreasonable for lines like these:
to throw up red flags.

I'm with Serpentine, there definitely were some warning signs in those posts.

turkishproverb
2011-12-16, 11:37 AM
It is in the US - sort of a Philosopher's/Sorcerer's Stone deal (although, from what Wikipedia says on the subject, done for less annoying reasons and with more authorial blessing).

Bingo.

Ironically, I think the American name makes more sense, given the other two titles (Subtle Knife, Amber Spyglass) are object related, suggesting the first book's title should have been as well, instead of something as generic as "northern lights".

Jahkaivah
2011-12-16, 02:47 PM
I find it hard to imagine you could honestly say that it is unreasonable for lines like these:
to throw up red flags.

Eh, some people just have tastes for certain things. If someone was to say they didn't like My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic because they found it too girly I wouldn't call them sexist. But they are still required to agree that Pinkie Pie is the best pony.

Serpentine
2011-12-17, 06:50 AM
And if they say they avoid anything they think even hints at femininity in the assumption that anything related to females will be laden with romance and "glitter and ponies and little angelbabies"?
Note, by the way, I'm not actually saying he is sexist, merely that I don't think it's unreasonable to suspect him of such based on his posts here.

Thufir
2011-12-17, 12:20 PM
Ironically, I think the American name makes more sense, given the other two titles (Subtle Knife, Amber Spyglass) are object related, suggesting the first book's title should have been as well, instead of something as generic as "northern lights".

Yeah, that's actually the reason for the name change, and it was with Philip Pullman's approval - also because it goes with the title of the trilogy as a whole, His Dark Materials - referring to those three objects.

Dr.Epic
2011-12-17, 03:10 PM
Aqua Teen Hunger Force

How many words in that title actually apply to the show?

Fiery Diamond
2011-12-17, 05:08 PM
Aqua Teen Hunger Force

How many words in that title actually apply to the show?

Force? Not sure about the Teen. It's not really an adventure title anyway. It's the title of an exceedingly bizarre show.

Weezer
2011-12-17, 05:40 PM
Force? Not sure about the Teen. It's not really an adventure title anyway. It's the title of an exceedingly bizarre show.

And in that way it fully captures the essence of the show, it is a bizarre title for a bizarre show.

Fiery Diamond
2011-12-17, 05:42 PM
And in that way it fully captures the essence of the show, it is a bizarre title for a bizarre show.

I always figured that was why they named it that, anyway.

Dr.Epic
2011-12-17, 05:46 PM
Force? Not sure about the Teen. It's not really an adventure title anyway. It's the title of an exceedingly bizarre show.

I like how you didn't include Hunger considering all the characters are anthropomorphic food products.:smallwink:

AtlanteanTroll
2011-12-17, 06:01 PM
The reason BLEACH is called BLEACH is because it is assumed that Ichigo's hair is orange as a result of bleaching it.

Thufir
2011-12-17, 06:36 PM
The reason BLEACH is called BLEACH is because it is assumed that Ichigo's hair is orange as a result of bleaching it.

That makes no sense on multiple levels.
Actually, I might go so far as to say that makes negative sense. On multiple levels.

Dr.Epic
2011-12-17, 06:37 PM
The reason BLEACH is called BLEACH is because it is assumed that Ichigo's hair is orange as a result of bleaching it.

How is that assumed? This is an anime. Look at the range of hair color. Also, Orihime, ginger too. Not to mention, why would you name a show about ghosts, and demons, and reapers after the hair color of the protagonist?

Mr.Silver
2011-12-17, 07:16 PM
How is that assumed? This is an anime. Look at the range of hair color. Also, Orihime, ginger too. Not to mention, why would you name a show about ghosts, and demons, and reapers after the hair color of the protagonist?

If you've seen the show it should be fairly obvious that the creator isn't very good at thinking things through.

Dr.Epic
2011-12-17, 07:27 PM
If you've seen the show it should be fairly obvious that the creator isn't very good at thinking things through.

Oh, believe me I've seen episodes, and to me, that my good sir is an understatement.:smallwink:

AtlanteanTroll
2011-12-17, 08:43 PM
How is that assumed? This is an anime. Look at the range of hair color. Also, Orihime, ginger too. Not to mention, why would you name a show about ghosts, and demons, and reapers after the hair color of the protagonist?
I have no idea, but it's what Kubo said, so deal with it. :smallsigh:

Dr.Epic
2011-12-17, 10:04 PM
I have no idea, but it's what Kubo said, so deal with it. :smallsigh:

I don't even know what that's supposed to mean or who that is.:smallconfused:

turkishproverb
2011-12-17, 10:18 PM
Dr. Epic. He's neither got a Doctorate, nor is he epic. :smallwink:

Kidding! Don't Hurt Me!

Dr.Epic
2011-12-18, 12:02 AM
Dr. Epic. He's neither got a Doctorate, nor is he epic. :smallwink:

Kidding! Don't Hurt Me!

You made a powerful enemy today.:smallannoyed:

:smallwink:

Fiery Diamond
2011-12-18, 12:45 AM
I don't even know what that's supposed to mean or who that is.:smallconfused:

Kubo is the author of the manga BLEACH.

zingbat
2011-12-18, 10:09 AM
You made a powerful enemy today.:smallannoyed:

Duhn duhn DUHN!

(my dad raised me right...)

AshesOfOld
2011-12-18, 01:07 PM
Thing is that is an overly literal way of looking at it. Ask someone who doesn't know a thing about The Princess Bride what they think the film is about, and sure they might say that it is a about a Princess Bride which is true. But ask them what they think the film actually is and you're likely to get some guesses that it is primarily a romance or a history film about a royal wedding. Essentially being misled by the title to what the film was.

In contrast, take a film of similar themes such as the first Pirates of the Caribbean film. Find someone who doesn't know a thing about it (that might be difficult) and ask them what the film is from title. And while they will also correctly guess that it is about a bunch of pirates in the Caribbean they will also probably guess that it contains a lot of adventure and swashbuckling that better sums up both films.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with a film with a potentially misleading title, but you have to call it misleading when it is.

Honestly, it was assuming the worst about somebody which was one of the main things that was bugging me about some of the earlier posts.

Thank you for illustrating the actual meaning of this thread. I was a little flabbergasted by the hate flying my way.


I find it hard to imagine you could honestly say that it is unreasonable for lines like these:
to throw up red flags.

You actually cut out some of my quote in your post to illustrate your own point so I'll just copy-paste it here in its full length:

"Nothing. There's nothing wrong with anything being feminine. Except that it in this case is misleading. I don't watch romance movies. Do I watch adventure movies with romance in them? Hells yeah."

Please refrain from doing that, it's kind of childish. I am a guy's guy but that doesn't prevent me from enjoying a good lovestory. Why do you think I love these movies so much in the first place? They are a lot higher on my list than "The Expendables" would ever be. Almost up there with "The Terminator" :smallamused: (note that "The Terminator" actually like most action movies has a half-decent lovestory in it, in spite of it being called "The Terminator" and being about robots from the future trying to kill us all).


And if they say they avoid anything they think even hints at femininity in the assumption that anything related to females will be laden with romance and "glitter and ponies and little angelbabies"?
Note, by the way, I'm not actually saying he is sexist, merely that I don't think it's unreasonable to suspect him of such based on his posts here.

I think you're not being fair and you're blowing things out of proportion. Or maybe just misunderstanding. That's probably it. I realise I may not have chosen the best words to describe my meaning, this is not my native language so bear with me. But I'll try to clear things up as best I can.

First of all, I never said anything about not wanting to see movies that "had anything related to females" or that they directly made me picture "a romance and glitter and ponies and little angelbabies". What I said was that the actual title of the movie "Stardust" is misleading in that it makes me think of a movie for small girls. Not grown-up women or femininity, but little girls. It does make me think of glitter and ponies, and (I'm sorry Jahkaivah) I'm just not into that. And that I would have preferred if the title had a more "adventure/romancy" title, rather than a "girly" title.
The same goes for the princess bride. It's not a title that reels the guys (or boys) in, but the very young girls. But the movie holds a special place in my heart nonetheless.
Please understand that I have nothing against women, I have always supported feminine causes and most of my friends are actually women. I just wouldn't watch a movie called Stardust as little as I would watch a movie called The Barbie Diaries.

Last but not least, I would just like to point out that I wasn't terrible serious when I started this thread, although some of you managed to get me pretty riled up. To get back to the subject, what is the up with the movie "Brazil"? I really went into that one thinking I would see gangs, colourful costumes and lots of boobies.
On a sexual note, hearing these in succession is just plain wrong:
"Full Frontal"
"Snatch"
"The Banger Sisters"
"Shaft"
..."xXx"? Nah, too easy.

averagejoe
2011-12-18, 03:01 PM
I always thought that Bleach was called Bleach because, in the beginning when they still sometimes interacted with the real world, whenever someone was looking at/interacting with some sort of spiritual thing, the colors went all washed out.

Also I hear it's some Nirvana thing but I've never been a big fan I dunno.

Serpentine
2011-12-18, 09:44 PM
You actually cut out some of my quote in your post to illustrate your own point so I'll just copy-paste it here in its full length:

"Nothing. There's nothing wrong with anything being feminine. Except that it in this case is misleading. I don't watch romance movies. Do I watch adventure movies with romance in them? Hells yeah."

Please refrain from doing that, it's kind of childish.I left out the broader quote because it was irrelevant. That specific line sent up warning flags for sexism for me, and the context surrounding it didn't change that fact. You imply that if something is even a teeny bit feminine according to your own perception, you won't watch it because you expect it to be about romance. The sentences before and after you say that doesn't change that message.
So please refrain from calling me childish merely for being precise. I didn't post the whole paragraph not because it undermined my point, but because it was irrelevant to my point and would ne needless clutter.

Frankly, if you choose or avoid films based solely and entirely on the title, then you're looking at them extraordinarily narrowly, and I'm kinda surprised you ever see many movies at all. And your continued use of "guy's guy" and "girly" still sends up red flags for me, albeit smaller ones.

You may have a point about Brazil. Was there ever a reason given for the title in the movie?

The_Snark
2011-12-18, 11:20 PM
You may have a point about Brazil. Was there ever a reason given for the title in the movie?

No. Google informs me that it was named after a song title, "Aquarela do Brasil", which was used in the film and apparently was part of Terry Gilliam's inspiration for the movie. But unless you recognized the song, I don't think there's any way you could guess that just by watching the film.

AshesOfOld
2011-12-19, 02:52 PM
I left out the broader quote because it was irrelevant. That specific line sent up warning flags for sexism for me, and the context surrounding it didn't change that fact. You imply that if something is even a teeny bit feminine according to your own perception, you won't watch it because you expect it to be about romance. The sentences before and after you say that doesn't change that message.
So please refrain from calling me childish merely for being precise. I didn't post the whole paragraph not because it undermined my point, but because it was irrelevant to my point and would ne needless clutter.

Frankly, if you choose or avoid films based solely and entirely on the title, then you're looking at them extraordinarily narrowly, and I'm kinda surprised you ever see many movies at all. And your continued use of "guy's guy" and "girly" still sends up red flags for me, albeit smaller ones.

You may have a point about Brazil. Was there ever a reason given for the title in the movie?

Except that it wasn't irrelevant. You cut out the part that specifically stated that I do enjoy movies with romance in them. Which was kinda important to my point. Because I enjoy romance and movies with feminine outlooks and parts and whatnot. I just generally avoid movies that only delve into the romantic part.
And isn't it a bit sexist of you to assume that I am a womanhater because I choose to label myself as a guy's guy? The definition as I understand it (from Merriam-Webster) is just: "a man noted or admired for traditionally masculine interests and activities."
Like watching manly movies. I don't hate on women drivers, I don't patronize women, hit them or think that their place is in a kitchen.
I just love talking about sex with guys at grillparties, I love watching explosions, and I climb, drive fast cars that I can't afford and open the door for the ladies. I'm a guy's guy.

Another point: I'm talking about movies here! Not women in general, or in real life, who are always very far from how they appear in movies (especially in many romance movies, but that's beside the point). If things in the movie seem "girly", like the title, or pink lettering in the trailer, or its closely related to the fashion industry, then chances are I'm not gonna like it, and I'm not gonna even try. Because there are many warning signs of gross stereotypicalization (that's a word now) in the title or the trailer of modern movies, that I feel safe to avoid them without missing much.
In fact, the exact point of this thread is to find more movies that I might have missed on such assumptions, so hey, I'm trying, right?

Btw, thank you for agreeing on the "Brazil" part. I have never felt more misled :smallamused:.

Friv
2011-12-19, 03:48 PM
How is that assumed? This is an anime. Look at the range of hair color. Also, Orihime, ginger too. Not to mention, why would you name a show about ghosts, and demons, and reapers after the hair color of the protagonist?

I'm going to Devil's Advocate this one, because I used to like Bleach, once. Before the dark times. Before Butterflaizen.

...

*cough* Anyway. From what I understand, the author wanted to have a color-based title, and was originally aiming for "White", but decided that "Bleach" was something that would catch people's attentions better. White is the color of death in Japan, which ties into the series and setting.

More directly, two of the main characters in the show, Ichigo and Orihime, were teased, bullied, and harrassed as children because of their non-black hair, because their classmates assumed that they bleached their hair deliberately to stand out. They are outsiders who don't quite mesh with their fellows, and Ichigo's outsiderness is really a core plot arc of the good parts of the show. So as a symbolic title, Bleach actually works really well.

Serpentine
2011-12-20, 05:58 AM
Except that it wasn't irrelevant. You cut out the part that specifically stated that I do enjoy movies with romance in them. Which was kinda important to my point. Because I enjoy romance and movies with feminine outlooks and parts and whatnot. I just generally avoid movies that only delve into the romantic part.Again: the extra context was irrelevant to my point, which was that it is fair enough to have suspicions aroused when people suggest that they assume anything they consider "feminine" is going to be about romance. Whatever means you might use to justify or counteract that claim make no difference. That line raised flags, and in my opinion understandably so.

And isn't it a bit sexist of you to assume that I am a womanhater because I choose to label myself as a guy's guy?I never called you a womanhater, and nor did I make any assumptions. I merely said it raises red flags (small ones, in the case of the "guy's guy" thing). In other words, it's something that gets attention and, in accompanyment with certain other suspect statements, may lead one to have certain suspicions and watch what else is said for confirmation or refutement (is that a word?) of said suspicions.

If things in the movie seem "girly", like the title, or pink lettering in the trailer, or its closely related to the fashion industry, then chances are I'm not gonna like it, and I'm not gonna even try.And neither of the movies in your original post even come close to anything like that, but even if it did I still think basing your opinion of a movie solely on the title or its font is... lets go with "not particularly informative". Because we're not talking about trailers.

Now, if you wanna talk about trailers, I'm pretty sure there's a whole trope for that. Funny People, anyone?

kamikasei
2011-12-20, 07:06 AM
Except that it wasn't irrelevant. You cut out the part that specifically stated that I do enjoy movies with romance in them...
And isn't it a bit sexist of you to assume that I am a womanhater because I choose to label myself as a guy's guy?
This is an interesting phenomenon that crops up a lot whenever x-ism comes up.

You said something sexist or at least problematic. When it's pointed out, you treat the observation that you said something sexist as an accusation that you are a womanhater, as though it's impossible for you to ever do anything bad without being an irredeemable monster through and through, so of course because it would be terribly unjust of us to conclude that about you based on a few comments on the internet we can never point out any actual thing you do that's worth calling out.

And on top of that apparently we're not allowed notice sexism if it's prefaced with "I'm not a sexist, but...". Unfortunately that's not how it works; not only do such protestations not confer immunity, they generally raise suspicions. "I've got nothing against women, but marketers need to go out of their way to reassure me that something isn't targeted primarily at* them because otherwise I'll assume it can't hold any interest for me" is not a harmlessly egalitarian sentiment just because you preface it with a disclaimer.

* Being charitable. Less charitably, thinking "Stardust" is misleadingly feminine suggests a concern less with something aimed primarily at women and more with something being contaminated by association at all.

Serpentine
2011-12-20, 07:17 AM
Unfortunately that's not how it works; not only do such protestations not confer immunity, they generally raise suspicions. "I've got nothing against women, but marketers need to go out of their way to reassure me that something isn't targeted primarily at them because otherwise I'll assume it can't hold any interest for me" is not a harmlessly egalitarian sentiment just because you preface it with a disclaimer.That's the bit. The rest is quite a lot stronger than what I was trying to say, but that bit's exactly what I was after.

AshesOfOld
2011-12-20, 08:56 AM
This is an interesting phenomenon that crops up a lot whenever x-ism comes up.

You said something sexist or at least problematic. When it's pointed out, you treat the observation that you said something sexist as an accusation that you are a womanhater, as though it's impossible for you to ever do anything bad without being an irredeemable monster through and through, so of course because it would be terribly unjust of us to conclude that about you based on a few comments on the internet we can never point out any actual thing you do that's worth calling out.

And on top of that apparently we're not allowed notice sexism if it's prefaced with "I'm not a sexist, but...". Unfortunately that's not how it works; not only do such protestations not confer immunity, they generally raise suspicions. "I've got nothing against women, but marketers need to go out of their way to reassure me that something isn't targeted primarily at* them because otherwise I'll assume it can't hold any interest for me" is not a harmlessly egalitarian sentiment just because you preface it with a disclaimer.

* Being charitable. Less charitably, thinking "Stardust" is misleadingly feminine suggests a concern less with something aimed primarily at women and more with something being contaminated by association at all.

And still, you're both flying over the point I was trying to make in the very beginning. I never associated the titles "Stardust" or "The Princess Bride" with women or femininity. I'm sorry if you misunderstood, I think I've written it poorly then. I associate it with girls. Little girls. With ponytails. And ponies.

And I do believe marketers should go out of their way to illustrate that a particular movie is for the teen/adult crowd and not for the small girls, when it is actually so. It wouldn't make sense not to!

I don't think I've ever said anything like "I'm not a sexist, but...". It's actually one of the sentences I detest the most. I can't count how many times I've heard someone say "I'm not a racist, but..." and then barrage me with racist comments.
Again, what I meant was that movies in general tend to depict people in a very boxed way, with many stereotypes. I can't stand the way women are depicted in most 'chick flicks' I've seen, so I now tend to go around that.



And isn't it a bit sexist of you to assume that I am a womanhater because I choose to label myself as a guy's guy?

You said something sexist or at least problematic. When it's pointed out, you treat the observation that you said something sexist as an accusation that you are a womanhater, as though it's impossible for you to ever do anything bad without being an irredeemable monster.

Not what I said. I was talking about the "guy's guy" idiom, and I was pretty sure that Serpentine was too. Apparantly I was wrong. So there.

The whole problem here seems to be that you seem to take all the things I say way too literally and convey them to the real world where actual people exist and they aren't just parodies of themselves. And I'm here talking about adventure and romance movies, where everybody always are stereotypes and squarepants and a whole other language is going on. You can't talk about sexism in a movie the way you talk about sexism in real life because these movies aren't close to real life.

I'm getting really tired of discussing this, but I hate closing a discussion when people are still arguing (especially over me).
Maybe I did write some things that could be construed as sexist. I don't know. I didn't have women/men in mind when I thought of this thread. So let me just say that I had no intention on belittling women, and if you felt injured by my words, then I am sorry.
I just think you were too eager to call me shallow and narrow-minded, which I am not.

EDIT: Hey, I edited the first post to better illustrate what I was trying to say.

Serpentine
2011-12-20, 09:09 AM
Neither of us said the "guy's guy" thing made you a womanhater, and I at least never even got close to using anything like the term. All I said was that it - among several other things - is a mild warning sign for me.

And I still disagree with your original examples. Stardust and The Princess Bride are perhaps whimsical and fairy-taleish, but that's both the point and not "childish girly". To the degree The Princess Bride could be considered such, to complain about it is to completely miss the point of the book/movie - or to fall headlong into it, I'm not sure which.

Dr.Epic
2011-12-20, 08:11 PM
I'm going to Devil's Advocate this one, because I used to like Bleach, once. Before the dark times. Before Butterflaizen.

...

*cough* Anyway. From what I understand, the author wanted to have a color-based title, and was originally aiming for "White", but decided that "Bleach" was something that would catch people's attentions better. White is the color of death in Japan, which ties into the series and setting.

More directly, two of the main characters in the show, Ichigo and Orihime, were teased, bullied, and harrassed as children because of their non-black hair, because their classmates assumed that they bleached their hair deliberately to stand out. They are outsiders who don't quite mesh with their fellows, and Ichigo's outsiderness is really a core plot arc of the good parts of the show. So as a symbolic title, Bleach actually works really well.

It works about as well as calling Lord of the Rings "Feet":

-Hobbits don't where shoes on their FEET
-They had to walk a great distance using their FEET
-Mordor is hundreds of miles away, and miles are made up of FEET

Make sense to me.:smallwink:

Friv
2011-12-21, 11:05 AM
It works about as well as calling Lord of the Rings "Feet":

-Hobbits don't where shoes on their FEET
-They had to walk a great distance using their FEET
-Mordor is hundreds of miles away, and miles are made up of FEET

Make sense to me.:smallwink:

Nine walkers to oppose the nine Riders, man. Right there in the first book. ;)

Dr.Epic
2011-12-21, 11:43 AM
Nine walkers to oppose the nine Riders, man. Right there in the first book. ;)

Um, context? Reference? What does that have to do with my post?

supermonkeyjoe
2011-12-21, 12:06 PM
Um, context? Reference? What does that have to do with my post?

the fellowship of the ring AKA the nine walkers, they walk on their FEET. The exact quote is;
"The Company of the Ring shall be Nine; and the Nine Walkers shall be set against the Nine Riders that are evil..." Elrond according to a 5 second google search

Friv
2011-12-21, 03:30 PM
the fellowship of the ring AKA the nine walkers, they walk on their FEET. The exact quote is; according to a 5 second google search

Yeah, that was it. I was agreeing with you, in a joking manner, that Feet would be an excellent title for Lord of the Ring.

AshesOfOld
2011-12-21, 04:30 PM
"Lord of the Rings: The fellowship of god dammit, we have to walk really far in the next three books".

Didn't Frodo make a subtitle like that for it, like Bilbo's "There and back again"?

AshesOfOld
2011-12-21, 04:32 PM
Sorry for double-posting, everybody.


Neither of us said the "guy's guy" thing made you a womanhater, and I at least never even got close to using anything like the term. All I said was that it - among several other things - is a mild warning sign for me.

And I still disagree with your original examples. Stardust and The Princess Bride are perhaps whimsical and fairy-taleish, but that's both the point and not "childish girly". To the degree The Princess Bride could be considered such, to complain about it is to completely miss the point of the book/movie - or to fall headlong into it, I'm not sure which.

So what you've really been trying to say during the last five pages is that you think I'm an idiot?

Weezer
2011-12-21, 07:16 PM
"Lord of the Rings: The fellowship of god dammit, we have to walk really far in the next three books".

Didn't Frodo make a subtitle like that for it, like Bilbo's "There and back again"?

His title for the Red Book of Westmarch was:
The Downfall of the Lord of the Rings and the Return of the King

In fact, this title is a replacement for Bilbo's title of "The Unexpected Journey: There and Back Again", the final Red Book of Westmarch was a collaborative effort between Bilbo and Frodo (with Sam doing a little at the end, mostly just recording Frodo's passing out of Middle Earth) that covered the events of the Hobbit and LotR. And it was this book that Tolkein used as his "source" for both the Hobbit and LotR.

EDIT: I really shouldn't be as surprised as I am that Tolkien put so much thought into the fictional book that he used as his "source", he is Tolkien after all.

Mr.Silver
2011-12-21, 09:00 PM
Sorry for double-posting, everybody.



So what you've really been trying to say during the last five pages is that you think I'm an idiot?

Maybe not the best question to ask after you miss the large button marked 'Edit' at the bottom of your previous post... :smalltongue:

Serpentine
2011-12-21, 11:02 PM
So what you've really been trying to say during the last five pages is that you think I'm an idiot?I think you are wrong, and your reasoning can raise certain flags. Lots of people who aren't idiots are often wrong.

AshesOfOld
2011-12-22, 03:45 PM
Maybe not the best question to ask after you miss the large button marked 'Edit' at the bottom of your previous post... :smalltongue:

Watch it, mr. Obvious. Also, I need to stop creeping around the forum when I've slept less than an hour.


I think you are wrong, and your reasoning can raise certain flags. Lots of people who aren't idiots are often wrong.

... I'll just pretend you're putting me in that pile then. I still think I was right though, after all, I was misled :smallsmile:. And who knows, maybe other idiots were too.
Maybe it was a bit sexist, but then again, maybe you and Kamikasei were a little too sensitive. If you weren't, I'll be sure to raise a lot of flags until my time comes.
This is me pulling out of that discussion. Please feel free to make a finishing statement of your own, if you'd like.

Serpentine
2011-12-24, 06:53 AM
Well, what about other movies that were misleading? I can't really think of many at the moment, aside from the trailer to Funny People - it made it look like another whacky Adam Sandler comedy, when in fact it was quite a heart-wrenching drama - but i'm sure there's plenty.

Dr.Epic
2011-12-24, 07:22 AM
Iron Man

Technically, his suit isn't made of iron.:smallwink:

kamikasei
2011-12-24, 09:24 AM
Trailers Always Lie is its own thing - misleading trailers are absurdly common. A title can't take a mediocre or crappy movie, pick out all the best bits, and assemble them to give a falsely positive impression.

Dr.Epic
2011-12-24, 11:24 AM
Trailers Always Lie is its own thing - misleading trailers are absurdly common. A title can't take a mediocre or crappy movie, pick out all the best bits, and assemble them to give a falsely positive impression.

Oh, I disagree. (http://www.homestarrunner.com/amazon.html):smallwink:

Chainsaw Hobbit
2011-12-28, 01:35 AM
Serenity is anything but serene.

Thufir
2011-12-29, 10:51 AM
To be honest, I think in general, while one could argue that various titles are misleading, in most cases the fault lies with the person for judging the work by its title. It's like judging a book by its cover, only worse.

To take a couple of examples brought up in-thread, Stardust, and Serenity - yes, you could draw the wrong impression of those films going purely by the title. I think you would be less likely to draw a misleading impression from seeing a poster, and far less likely to do so from watching a trailer for either of them.

So,


And I do believe marketers should go out of their way to illustrate that a particular movie is for the teen/adult crowd and not for the small girls, when it is actually so. It wouldn't make sense not to!

They do. That's what posters and trailers are for.

Anyway, I imagine there are things which I've passed over because I only ever heard of them by title, with no further indication of what they were about, so I got the wrong impression. To be honest, it doesn't bother me - there are enough good things which I do know - in fact, I have a considerable number of books I haven't read and films I haven't watched, that I want to, so this isn't really negatively impacting my enjoyment of media.

And, frankly, less misleading titles are not necessarily better ones. To take Stardust again, what title would better describe the film? Tristran Thorn has an Adventure in Fairyland? Suddenly this really sounds like it's for kids! Whereas Stardust sounds good as a title.
For Serenity, I don't even know what title you could give it that would be entirely un-misleading (There has to be a better word for that).
(I realise you were probably joking about Serenity, but it's still a decent example)

So, yeah, I don't think there are many cases where a title is sufficidently misleading that you could make a case for it being a bad title. Mostly we're just going to get cases where it's funny to joke about them (Like Iron Man, as already brought up), or cases where it's like, "Well, yeah, but what else would you call it?"

Boci
2011-12-29, 11:42 AM
Regarding the Bleach title thing, wasn't it because the creator wanted something that to the Japanese would invoke connotation of death but was an English words and felt that "Bleach" sounded better than "White"?

Regarding the Stardust debate, yes the title was relevant to the plot, but not so much to the genre. After all, The Return of the King could have just as easily been called "The Gardener's Helping Hand". Would it be relevant to the plot? Yes, without Sam, Frodo would have never made it. Would it be relevant to the genre? Not really.

Why does this matter? Because you often only see a title of a movie before making basic assumptions about it. I only saw Stardust because I was on a plane and the selection was limited. I fully expected to not be able to stand it, and I was pleasantly surprised when I actually enjoyed it.

Call me sexist for thinking something called Stardust is going to focus on magic in a light hearted and love seeking fashion than I enjoy, but thats how it is. Is the movies fault? Not really, but at the same time its not a bad idea for them to consider cultural assumptions when naming a movie. You generally dont want people thinking its of a different genre, since not everyone likes romantic and adventure films.

Mr.Silver
2011-12-29, 01:02 PM
Because you often only see a title of a movie before making basic assumptions about it.
I generally find it far more effective to not make assumptions based solely on the title of a work. Otherwise you end-up making silly threads on the internet complaining about how a title 'misled' you.

Zen Monkey
2011-12-29, 01:09 PM
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon contains neither. Well, unless the dragon is really well-hidden, or one of those magic-eye things I have trouble with.

Boci
2011-12-29, 01:10 PM
I generally find it far more effective to not make assumptions based solely on the title of a work. Otherwise you end-up making silly threads on the internet complaining about how a title 'misled' you.

But there are too many movies for me not to do that. What exactly should I do to judge whether or not a movie will interest me, bearing in mind I am presumably supose to do this for every movie released.



And, frankly, less misleading titles are not necessarily better ones. To take Stardust again, what title would better describe the film? Tristran Thorn has an Adventure in Fairyland? Suddenly this really sounds like it's for kids! Whereas Stardust sounds good as a title.


Quest for a Star, Across the Wall of Time. Nothing else jumps out immediatly.

Zigg'rrauglurr
2011-12-29, 02:13 PM
Have you read the books? Because they are about 10x better than the movie in every possible way, so if you enjoyed the movie you will love the books. In fact, as someone who read the books first I was offended by the movie at some parts, the director/writer was incredibly cowardly and cut out all the controversial bits. Plus the sequels you are missing were atually written

Though I was wondering, what's misleading about 'the Golden Compass' as a title? That's the major plot device for the movie...

I was aware of the books, but the problem with them is that it's next to imposible to make my GF read them too... Hence why I mourn the fact they put millons for crappy movies instead of grandiose epic things like this.

I pictured that there where more profound things left unsaid for that movie.

Thank you for the "read the books" reinforcement, right after skyrim.

Also, someone else mentioned this, "Brazil"; what the heck man?! name =/= movie

Mr.Silver
2011-12-29, 02:35 PM
But there are too many movies for me not to do that. What exactly should I do to judge whether or not a movie will interest me, bearing in mind I am presumably supose to do this for every movie released.
Trailers/posters/blurb on the back of a DVD case/short description if you're browsing electronically. None of these are exactly massive time-sinks.

Boci
2011-12-29, 02:43 PM
Trailers/posters/blurb on the back of a DVD case/short description if you're browsing electronically. None of these are exactly massive time-sinks.

Indevidually no, but for each movie released its going to add up. And thats assuming I know of the movie's release. If not then I'm most likely only going to find out about it by reading about it, in which case it will most likely be mentioned by title only.

Rae Artemi
2011-12-29, 03:30 PM
Also, Orihime, ginger too.

She was actually supposed to be a brunette or something, but the colorists for the anime did it wrong and never bothered to fix it. That's really neither here nor there though.

AshesOfOld
2012-01-02, 02:14 PM
I generally find it far more effective to not make assumptions based solely on the title of a work. Otherwise you end-up making silly threads on the internet complaining about how a title 'misled' you.

And woe to all of us, if there was ever anything silly or pointless on an internet comic forum.

I didn't create this thread to have a deep philosophical discussion or an argument about sexism or even to point out just what's wrong with the way movies are named today.
I did it for poops and giggles.

On that note, if THIS (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057181/) is actually what this movie is about, then I love it already. Though I'm not sure there are actually zombies in it.