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NudelJunge
2011-12-14, 09:19 AM
So, skipping all the minor details, I will be running a campaign soon where the Elder Evil Pandorym will be escaping from his prison but will not be a world-ender. Instead, he is going to fulfill his contract of destroying the gods. Instead of being wiped from all existence, they will just be booted from reality and become vestiges. So, basically, I need help converting the core d&d gods into vestiges. I decided to try my hand at converting the god Heironeous into a vestige. I'm shooting for making all of the gods-become-vestiges into 4th level vestiges. I have to admit, I did leech some info off of Wikipedia for this. I was told in another thread that this guy is too weak for a 4th level vestige, so please PEACH this guy and tell me what you think. Please be gentle, it's my first time.

NAME: Heironeous

THE SEAL: I have a pic of the seal on my computer that I have no idea where it came from. It's pretty sweet, you can bank on that.

BINDING DC: 23

SPECIAL REQUIREMENT: Must be good, if not necessarily lawful. Non-good binders have the binding DC increased to 28.

MANIFESTATION: As the last of Heironeousí Seal is drawn, lightning seems to strike the ground from out of nowhere, as the final blinding flash clears; you see a single blood-stained banner planted at the center of the seal. You see on this banner, the holy symbol of Heironeous. A clear and booming, if not entirely happy voice rings out, demanding to know who summons Heironeous and why.

SIGN: Your skin takes on a coppery hue.

INFLUENCE: You are driven to acts of honor and valor. You must be kind and chivalrous to women, brave and without fear to men. If a situation arise for you to prove your worth, you must attempt it, or have an additional +5 to the binding DC the next time you attempt to bind Heironeous.

GRANTED ABILITIES


Sword and Shield: As a full-round action, you summon a longsword and heavy shield and gain proficiency with them. As you advance in the Binder class, the abilities of the sword and shield improve.
At 7th-9th levels, the sword acts as a Knockback Longsword and the Shield acts as a Commander Heavy Steel Shield.
At 10th-12th levels, the sword acts as a +2 Knockback, Brutal Surge Longsword and the shield acts as a Commander, Greater Anchoring Heavy Steel Shield.
At 13th-15th levels, the sword acts as a +2 Knockback, Brutal Surge, Metalline Longsword and the shield acts as a +2 Commander, Greater Anchoring, Heartening Heavy Steel Shield, except that it grants 20 temporary hit points for 5 rounds.
At 16-20th levels, the sword acts as a +4 Axiomatic, Knockback, Brutal Surge, Metalline Longsword and the shield acts as a +4 Commander, Energy Immunity (Fire/Electricity for 1 minute, 2/day) Greater Anchoring, Heartening Heavy Steel Shield, except that it grants 20 temporary hit points for 5 rounds.

Heroism: You gain a +4 competence bonus on saving throws versus spells and ability effects that influence your emotions. You also gain a Fighter bonus feat for which you must already meet the prerequisites.

Aura of Courage: Any allies within 20 feet who succumb to fear or despair effects are granted an additional save on the next round. Success means the ally shakes off the effect, failure means the effect persists as normal.

Smite Evil: Once every 5 rounds, you can smite an evil opponent. You must declare you are using the smite before you roll the attack. On a successful smite evil attack, you deal an additional point of damage per binder level. If you also have levels in paladin, your binder levels stack with your paladin levels for this smite evil damage.

Amechra
2011-12-14, 09:01 PM
Make Smite Evil 1/5 rounds; Vestiges don't have any per-encounter abilities.

Heroism should also grant you a single Fighter Bonus feat you qualify for.

Take a look at Savnok, and do something similar to his armor summoning ability for the Sword and Shield ability.

Aura of Courage is fine.

As it is right now, I wouldn't even bind this guy as a first level Vestige; look at the competition, and look back at what you did with Hieroneous.

Prime32
2011-12-14, 10:15 PM
Maybe add some stuff from Ordained Champion or Shining Blade of Heironeous?

Also, why all lv4? It's not like the gods are equal in power.


For other gods
Bahamut: Natural armor bonus, Wings + SHOOP DA WOOP
Boccob: You get a spellbook containing some spells which you (and only you) can prepare and cast as a wizard of Xth level; the spells cannot be transferred to another medium by any means. Also, bardic knowledge
Corellon Larethian: Inspire Courage, Skirmish, Weapon Finesse, greater magic weapon
Ehlonna: Woodland stride, summon nature's ally (one at a time, but lasts as long as the pact does), wild empathy
Erythnul: Bonuses against creatures who have attacked you, Any creature you damage with a slashing/piercing weapon may be wracked by pain
Fharlanghn: Short-distance teleportation, immunity to fatigue
Garl Glittergold: Trickery Devotion as a bonus feat
Gruumsh: Rage, acid spittle, add Str to Intimidate
Hextor:
Moradin:
Nerull: Desecrate aura, trap souls of enemies you kill
Obad-hai: Switch between four modes which grant you some of the abilities of a particular elemental
Olidammara: Hideous laughter/irresistable dance
Pelor: Daylight aura, sunbeams, Turn Undead 1/5 rounds
St. Cuthbert: Zone of truth or discern lies
Tiamat: Natural armor bonus, Frightful presence, add variable energy damage to your attacks
Vecna: See invisibility, Immunity to divinations
Wee Jas: Immunity to poison, disease and aging effects.
Yondalla:

Morph Bark
2011-12-16, 12:20 PM
Seems to me like a good guideline for gods-to-vestiges level would be Divine Rank / 2.5 (which would mean DR 20 = Vestige Level 8).

NudelJunge
2011-12-17, 11:02 AM
So I edited Heironeous to make him a bit more powerful, I think I may have gone overboard with the sword and shield, but lemme know what you think.


Make Smite Evil 1/5 rounds; Vestiges don't have any per-encounter abilities.
Heroism should also grant you a single Fighter Bonus feat you qualify for.
Take a look at Savnok, and do something similar to his armor summoning ability for the Sword and Shield ability.
Aura of Courage is fine.
As it is right now, I wouldn't even bind this guy as a first level Vestige; look at the competition, and look back at what you did with Hieroneous.

And now?


Also, why all lv4? It's not like the gods are equal in power.

You make a fair point, I was going for relative ease-of-use and keeping them just out of reach of non-binders or binder class-dippers.


Seems to me like a good guideline for gods-to-vestiges level would be Divine Rank / 2.5 (which would mean DR 20 = Vestige Level 8).

That is actually a pretty friggin sweet idea. *runs away to find more info on divine rank***

Volthawk
2011-12-17, 11:13 AM
That is actually a pretty friggin sweet idea. *runs away to find more info on divine rank***

Here, have a link to the SRD entry (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineRanksAndPowers.htm#divineRanks).

Essentially, using that formula, here's how it would go (I'm rounding up all the time, btw. It means your rank 1 and 2 deities can translate over and also is handy as it means the rank bands can translate into vestige level bands):

Level 1 and 2: Demigods (don't have an example to hand, none of the core gods are demigods)
Level 3 and 4: Lesser Gods (eg Bahamut)
Level 5 and 6: Intermediate Deities (eg Heironeous)
Level 7 and 8: Greater Deities (eg Boccob)

As for overdeities (ie those with over DVR 20)...well, I think there are Epic Vestige rules somewhere (I think they were purged when WoTC started clearing out their online 3.5 stuff, probably a copy somewhere...).

Wyntonian
2011-12-17, 12:14 PM
Oh, I'm SO happy to see this. I love binders, and I think they could use some more love. I have several levels of homebrewed vestiges that I'll put in a thread in a bit.

peacenlove
2011-12-17, 01:45 PM
Subscribed and will eye it with interest.
Also since there is a feat to ignore special requirements, you can make them as harsh as you feel like. For instance Heironeous should be bindable normally only by LG binders.
Lastly, while Morph Bark's suggestion will help you design your vestiges, it is not a requirement, since some ToM vestiges weren't even demigods. Example that lvl 8 vestige gnome architect.

Xefas
2011-12-17, 04:15 PM
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad91/bluejanus/hextortabletjpeg.jpg

Special Requirements: The Seal of Hextor may only be drawn by a Binder in the presence of someone that loyally follows and recognizes them as a superior - a slave, servant, minion, henchmen, soldier, or otherwise.

Manifestation: A fissure shatters the seal as it is completed. A black gauntlet rises up from the opening, raking into the ground as a massive, armor-clad, six-armed behemoth of a man heaves himself bodily onto the sundered earth. His body is broken, his mail cracked, his hands empty, and yet he stands with a godly mien of absolute authority. When he speaks, it is a roaring thunderclap that imparts His Will in all of its grace and brutality.

Sign: Your skin blackens to the color of ash, and your eyes dissolve and ignite into orbs of cold red light.

Influence: While Hextor is bound, you may not recognize any authority other than your own. You do not need to treat others badly, necessarily. You simply may not take orders, or show signs of submission (such as bowing), or allow their laws or decrees to limit your will. Likewise, you are bound by your own authority. You may not break your own word or laws, and must punish those that do with ruthless castigation.

Granted Abilities:

Gift of the Stern Whip: You may give your magnanimous advice to one creature that you are able to meaningfully communicate with within 120 feet, as a swift action. You outline a suggested course for their next round of actions (detailing move, standard, swift, and any free actions), and if they follow your suggestion without addition or alteration, they add your Charisma modifier to all rolls made that round. If they choose to ignore your divine authority, they take your Charisma modifier in damage, and suffer a -2 penalty on all actions for that round as their stupidity and impudence become wicked barbs that shred their mind and body.

God of War: By handling and practicing with a weapon for five minutes, you may gain temporary proficiency with it until the next time Hextor is unbound from you. Furthermore, you automatically ignore up to 4 points of penalties when using a weapon you are proficient in. The source(s) of the penalty is unimportant - whether it originates from the Shaken status, fighting with two weapons without the appropriate feats, utilizing the Power Attack feat, and so on.

The Strong Arm of the Law: Your attacks automatically ignore the damage reduction of any creature with a Chaotic alignment, excluding damage reduction granted by physical items (but including things like spells). Creatures within 120ft of you that recognize you as their lawful superior share this benefit.

Darkvision: You gain darkvision out to 60ft. This ability does not function unless you display Hextor's sign (see above).

NudelJunge
2011-12-18, 10:46 AM
Oh, I'm SO happy to see this. I love binders, and I think they could use some more love. I have several levels of homebrewed vestiges that I'll put in a thread in a bit.

Personally, I enjoy playing a binder more than I've ever enjoyed playing a caster/manifester. Especially this one time, man, there was some stuff.

Also, I would be very interested to see your vestiges.

Xefas, You made me squee. *claps giddily*

Xefas
2011-12-18, 12:19 PM
Xefas, You made me squee. *claps giddily*

Do you want me to do a few more? I have a couple of ideas, but I don't want to just steal the show from you.

NudelJunge
2011-12-18, 01:27 PM
No, I actually really like the flavor you're putting into it. Gotta be honest with you, I'm good with game balance when building characters and crafting challenges in games that I run, but creating or rearranging mechanics like with these vestiges, it is something I'm still a little fuzzy (read: inept) at.

Xefas
2011-12-18, 01:46 PM
http://i.imgur.com/NG9LB.jpg

Special Requirements: The Seal of Erythnul may only be drawn by a Binder in the flesh of a freshly dead corpse, still warm and full of blood.

Manifestation: The corpse upon which the seal is drawn begins to twitch and spasm, followed by an intensely disquieting sucking sound as all of its blood is forced outward through the slits in its flesh made by the Binder. The cloud of blood hangs in the air for a moment, supported by nothing, until a previously non-existent wind whips it into a whirling tornado-like shape from which a hideous visage appears. As Erythnul speaks, more of his body forms from the inchoate whirlwind - arms, then legs, then a torso and mane. In his full glory, he appears as something similar to a gnoll, but warped by unnaturally huge and awkwardly placed muscles, teeth too large for his own mouth, and fur that continually seeps trails of crimson ichor.

Sign: You continually leak droplets of blood from every pore of your body. It is neither painful nor debilitating, but it does leave everything you touch and everywhere you step sullied by your presence. In addition, your teeth sharpen and your hands deform into jagged claws.

Influence: Having bound one of the least friendly of all beings in the cosmos, you have become little more than a wild animal - no, worse than that. You are a monster. You must punish weakness at every opportunity. You must hunt and kill and maim for no other purpose than your love of causing suffering and death. But even a savage predator like you is capable of moving in a pack. You need not murder other predators - people that stare you down without fear, and agree to join the massacre (or, at least, get the hell out of your way). Other than that, no man, woman, or child can be spared once you have joined the field of battle.

Granted Abilities:

Savage Claws: If you display Erythnul's sign (see above), you may deal slashing or piercing damage with your unarmed attacks, and your unarmed attacks are considered two-handed weapons for the purposes of applying your strength modifier and for feats. You are considered to have the Improved Unarmed Strike feat if you do not already.

Scent of Prey: You may sense the presence of all living or freshly (less than a single day) dead creatures within 120ft. You may pinpoint their exact location if they are within 30ft of you, but beyond that, you can only detect their general direction from you. Furthermore, you are automatically aware if a creature you sense is at 100% hit points, above 50% hit points, below 50% hit points, into negative hit points, or freshly dead. Lastly, you can smell fear. You know if a sensed creature is Shaken, Frightened, or Panicked, has a bonus against fear effects, is immune to fear, and what their opposing modifier would be if you made an Intimidate check against them.

Gorging on Death: As a full-round action, you may tear into a freshly dead corpse adjacent to you, and feast upon both its flesh and its essence. The victim must have been killed by you, and you must have either a natural slashing weapon (such as a claw or bite), or be displaying Erythnul's sign. By feasting on a corpse, you gain Fast Healing 2 (which stacks with any other source of Fast Healing except additional applications of this one) for a number of rounds equal to your Binder level. Alternatively, you may forgo the Fast Healing to eliminate one of the Fatigued, Exhausted, Sickened, or Shaken conditions.

Blood for the Blood God: As a standard action, you may cause every freshly dead corpse within 30 feet to spontaneously explode into a fountain of gore. Small creatures create a 10ft cube cloud of blood. Medium creatures create a 15ft cube. Large creatures create a 30ft cube. Each additional size category doubles the length of each side likewise. Other than their size, treat these clouds as the Fog Cloud spell. As a move action, you may move any number of these clouds (as long as they are within 120ft of you) 30ft in any direction (they need not all be moved in the same direction). Each cloud lasts for a number of rounds equal to your Binder level. If you are showing Erythnul's sign, the blood clouds do not obscure your vision and they may only be blown away by magical winds (such as a Gust of Wind spell), enduring against the most powerful of mundane gales. After you use this ability, you may not use it again for 5 rounds.

--------


http://i.imgur.com/uClUN.png

Special Requirement: The Seal of Fharlanghn may only be drawn under an open sky, upon a road or trail.

Manifestation: Dust whips up around the seal, jumbling its lines until they form the vague shape of a man's face. After a moment, the eyes of the face open to reveal stunning green pools of light. Slowly, the road rises upward in a pillar of earth and, like a traveler shaking the dust from his coat, it sloughs off cascades of earth until the perfectly sculpted figure of an elderly person in a simple tunic and heavy coat stands before the Binder. Fharlanghn smiles with genuine warmth, although his eyes always appear unfocused, as if staring at some place far away.

Sign: You take on the curious eyes of Fharlanghn, vividly, unnaturally green, and you always appear to be about one age category older than you actually are (venerable characters with this Vestige bound look very very wizened indeed).

Influence: You must greet every traveler you meet on the road, and share any provisions you have to spare with those that need it. Likewise, you must deal with any threats that trouble the roads upon which you travel, such as bandits or highwaymen, or more exotic monsters that have taken up residence nearby.

Granted Abilities:

Blessed Sojourn: When traveling over long distances (such as when utilizing the Overland Movement rules), you are always considered to have made a Survival check high enough not to get lost and to avoid natural hazards, and harsh (non-magical) weather never slows you down or forces you to make a Fortitude save. This blessing extends to yourself and to every companion that travels with you. Furthermore, while traveling, you will always conveniently happen upon enough food and water to support yourself and a number of others equal to your Binder level, even in a desert or tundra, without slowing your traveling speed. This does not produce excess food - it is always the exact amount you need for the day, and not more.

At Home In Every Nation: You are constantly under an effect identical to that of a Tongues spell. In addition, you gain a +20 bonus on Knowledge (Local) checks - but only to know the customs, traditions, and laws of the settlement you are currently in. While your appearance never actually changes, you coincidentally never seem to be discriminated against as a foreigner or tourist (even an elf traveling through dwarven lands will be greeted jovially when he stops at an inn or tavern).

Safe Steps: You completely ignore the effects of difficult terrain, and your movement never provokes attacks of opportunity. You gain a Climb and Swim speed equal to your base land speed.

Safeguarded Steps: As a swift action, you may extend the benefits of Fharlaghn's Safe Steps ability to every ally within 60ft until the beginning of your next turn. After you use this ability, you may not use it again for 5 rounds.

NudelJunge
2011-12-18, 03:20 PM
:biggrin: Wow, I think I just squeed again. That is a-friggin'-mazing. I don't want to dump the load of this project on you, but I gotta be honest, if you wanna run with the spotlight on this one, tear it up. I will defer to your expertise on this.

Set
2011-12-19, 08:37 PM
Loving this stuff. Gift of the Stern Whip (from Hextor) and Blessed Sojourn (from Fharlanghn) are both very cool and imaginative abilities!

Ninja_Grand
2011-12-20, 11:40 AM
Xefas, What do you use to make the pics??. That alone makes me dance.

Xefas
2011-12-20, 12:05 PM
Xefas, What do you use to make the pics??. That alone makes me dance.
MS PAINT :smallcool:
(But seriously, Macromedia Fireworks.)

So, Nudel, when you say "Core Gods" do you mean just the Gods in the Core Book? Or are you including deities like Bahamut and Tiamat? And what about things like demigods and creatures powerful enough to function as gods, like Orcus?

hamishspence
2011-12-20, 01:53 PM
Orcus in his "god-level" form has already ended up as a vestige after that form was "destroyed"- Tenebrous.

And his seal has a special requirement- just like these.

Xefas
2011-12-20, 02:01 PM
Orcus in his "god-level" form has already ended up as a vestige after that form was "destroyed"- Tenebrous.

And his seal has a special requirement- just like these.

Even after he lost Tenebrous, and was brought back from the dead, he still functions as a deity. He grants spells and domains (Chaos, Evil, Death, and Darkness), has priests and temples, and so on. You can read more of a write-up on his use as a god in the Libris Mortis.

hamishspence
2011-12-20, 02:20 PM
Strictly- in Libris Mortis he doesn't "function as a deity"- while clerics worshipping him get power, that power doesn't come from him, and he has no salient divine abilities.

p18 Libris Mortis:

Despite his status as a demon prince rather than a true god, Orcus has inspired the creation of temples all over the planes. Those that worship him gain clerical power as if worshipping a true deity, though they clearly gain that power from some more universal source (perhaps from the Negative Energy Plane itself).

The selection of domains seems to vary depending on the source.

Tenebrous in Tome of Magic gets Chaos, Evil, Death, Trickery

Orcus in Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss gets Chaos, Evil, Death, Demonic

Faerun's Faiths & Pantheons Orcus gets Chaos, Evil, Death, Undeath

Ghostwalk Orcus gets Chaos, Evil, Death, Undeath

BoVD Orcus gets Chaos, Evil, Death.

And Libris Mortis Orcus gets Chaos, Evil, Death, Darkness.

Xefas
2011-12-20, 02:24 PM
Okay? We seem to be in agreement.

hamishspence
2011-12-20, 02:30 PM
"0th level deities" as vestiges (anything not a full deity that somehow grants spells anyway) could be level 1, demigods could be level 2.

NudelJunge
2011-12-20, 08:54 PM
So, Nudel, when you say "Core Gods" do you mean just the Gods in the Core Book? Or are you including deities like Bahamut and Tiamat? And what about things like demigods and creatures powerful enough to function as gods, like Orcus?

Mostly, I was looking for the PHB gods, any others would be nice, but the guys in my group are mostly newbies, so I don't really want to throw in the splat-book gods or any of the gods they won't really have any contact with. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have an entire list of gods-turned-vestiges for my own nefarious purposes, but for the purposes of the game that I'm getting ready to run, only the PHB gods would even be involved.