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View Full Version : What would it have been like if Tarquin had taken Elan instead of Nale?



M.A.D
2011-12-17, 12:19 AM
Been bugging me ever since I realized that Elan would have been Tarquin's more favourable (if not more deplorable) son, since they both share an affinity for bards.

So, how do you think the two brothers would have turned out if they were to grow up with the other parent? What would have become of the genre-savvy, chaotic good, but mentally challenged Elan if he had been brought up by his Lawful Evil and competent father? And what about Nale, who's lawful evil and intelligent and yet who shares his Chaotic Good mother's knack for needless complication?

Dr.Epic
2011-12-17, 12:21 AM
The Order would have never formed.

M.A.D
2011-12-17, 12:31 AM
Right. That. What else?

Let's focus more on Elan and Nale, since if Elan weren't there, Roy would probably have finished off Xykon by now

Ron Miel
2011-12-17, 12:39 AM
So, how do you think the two brothers would have turned out if they were to grow up with the other parent?

The Giant has indicated that the answer to that question will be revealed in a future strip, and he doesn't want to talk about it yet.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12242039&postcount=45

Math_Mage
2011-12-17, 06:57 AM
As a bard raised by someone who believes bards should control the universe through their mastery of narrative causality, Elan would probably be applying his genre savvy in much more practical ways. I have a feeling, though, that Tarquin would be mainly prepping Elan for some father-and-son narrative like the one he envisions in the current comic.

Bulldog Psion
2011-12-17, 08:53 AM
Right. That. What else?

Let's focus more on Elan and Nale, since if Elan weren't there, Roy would probably have finished off Xykon by now

I agree that Elan is a bungler, but how do you figure Roy would do any better against Xykon without him than his famous splat in Azure City? Dude is frickin' scary. :smallconfused:

Anyway, if they'd changed places, Elan would probably have ended up as a more tragic, but still noble, figure, since their personalities seem to have been fixed from birth. Without Nale hitting him in the head, he'd probably be smarter, too, and more likely to topple Tarquin successfully.

Nale, in the meantime, would have offed his mother over some quasi-imagined slight and would be a hunted fugitive in the woods leading a group of misfit, bungling bandits with overcomplicated plans.

That's my scenario, anyway. :smallbiggrin:

Ron Miel
2011-12-17, 09:19 AM
Let's focus more on Elan and Nale, since if Elan weren't there, Roy would probably have finished off Xykon by now

How so?

Lets just sat that the battle in Dorukun's dungeon went the same. Roy threw Xykon into the gate. Xykon got blown up. Redcloak escaped with the phylactery. Xykon regenerates.

Without Elan, the self destruct rune might never have been activated. This would leave the gate unprotected. Xykon, or another villain, could have come back a few days later.

And without the gate being blown up, Shojo would not have sent Miko to arrest the Order. They would not have been captured and tried. And Roy's father would not have told Roy that Xykon is still alive.

The way I see it, Elan prevented Xykon from winning.

Adoendithas
2011-12-17, 09:31 AM
Of course, without Elan, it's possible that Roy could have destroyed Xykon's body, then killed Redcloak and destroyed the phylactery. You never know.

Or, since Nale was also in the Dungeon of Dorukan at that point, he might have recruited Nale into the OOTS, or teamed up with the Linear Guild.

Ron Miel
2011-12-17, 10:20 AM
No, because Xykon says he hired the Linear Guild to kill tOOTS. Without Elan, they would have fought on first meeting. Teaming up is not on the cards.

Jay R
2011-12-17, 10:32 AM
Serious answer: Elan would have said "Dunh dunh DUNH!" for his father.

Non-serious answer: Thog's greatest line would have been, "nale. not not-nale. thog help nail nale, not not-nale. And thog knot nale while not-nale nail nale. not-nale, not nale, now nail nale by leaving nale, not not-nale, in jail."

What is "awful"?

Jaros
2011-12-17, 11:47 AM
The Giant has indicated that the answer to that question will be revealed in a future strip, and he doesn't want to talk about it yet.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12242039&postcount=45

I don't think it'll be so much of a 'this is how it would turn out' situation but more of an exploration of the differences and similarites between the two, and how much of them were attributed to nature and how much to nurture.

Bulldog Psion
2011-12-17, 12:06 PM
Of course, without Elan, it's possible that Roy could have destroyed Xykon's body, then killed Redcloak and destroyed the phylactery. You never know.


Weren't they already looting at that point?

Warren Dew
2011-12-17, 12:48 PM
The Order would have never formed.
To the contrary, the Order would have had
The angel and the other outsider Durkon recruited.
Xykon would have been history in short order.


Anyway, if they'd changed places, Elan would probably have ended up as a more tragic, but still noble, figure, since their personalities seem to have been fixed from birth. Without Nale hitting him in the head, he'd probably be smarter, too, and more likely to topple Tarquin successfully.
I thought the hitting happened before the divorce, since they were separated shortly thereafter.

Gift Jeraff
2011-12-17, 01:05 PM
Or, since Nale was also in the Dungeon of Dorukan at that point, he might have recruited Nale into the OOTS, or teamed up with the Linear Guild.Nale was in the dungeon to get the talisman in order to defeat Tarquin.

Anarion
2011-12-17, 01:15 PM
To the contrary, the Order would have had
The angel and the other outsider Durkon recruited.
Xykon would have been history in short order.


More Origin of PCs spoilers+wild speculation
See, the order would have recruited the angel and that other outsider and wrecked Xykon in short order. What we never see, however, is that actually those two outsiders were instrumental in thwarting a major power bid that the IFCC was making at the time, forcing them to fall back on tempting V later.

While everyone was busy destroying Xykon, the IFCC would have seized control of a section of the heavens, leading a huge following of evil outsiders to flock to their banners. This would have accelerated their plans to besiege the upper planes, leading to a spillover effect onto the material plane that would have weakened the gates and released the snarl with no one properly situated to deal with it, wiping out existence fo ra second time.

Dr.Epic
2011-12-17, 03:15 PM
Well, maybe the Order would have formed but it would be (Origins spoiler):

Roy
Durkon
angel guy and four-armed guy who stormed the Gates of Hell

M.A.D
2011-12-17, 03:24 PM
Let's not turn this into an SoD discussion thread now. You've had your spoilers, that's it.

As for Elan and Nale, what would the Chaotic Good son of an evil overlord have done? (assuming he doesn't get a scar on his face)?

And Nale most probably wouldn't have found the Linear guild and came to work for Xykon, but what could he have done?

Jaros
2011-12-17, 06:27 PM
How do we know Elan would still be CG though? I mean sure we see Nale hit him in the head when young but that doesn't mean their alignments were set in stone from birth.

ORione
2011-12-17, 09:26 PM
Serious answer: Elan would have said "Dunh dunh DUNH!" for his father.

Non-serious answer: Thog's greatest line would have been, "nale. not not-nale. thog help nail nale, not not-nale. And thog knot nale while not-nale nail nale. not-nale, not nale, now nail nale by leaving nale, not not-nale, in jail."

What is "awful"?

Except that it would probably be "Elan" and "Not-Elan".
Which would have made Thog's sentence a lot easier to understand, and Nale would not have had to break out, as Elan did.

Dr.Gunsforhands
2011-12-17, 10:46 PM
Well, if Nale had taken to adventuring to please his good-aligned mom in a way that still lets him use semi-evil schemes...

- Belkar would end up with an extra friend in the party.
- He would have to court Haley for a while before she would go out with him, but their shared interest in hoarding money and his genetic hotness might be enough for her to give him a shot.
- He would be at odds with Roy a lot of the time as he constantly tries to direct everything to suit his own tastes.
- He would likely get the party wrapped up in a lot of shady dealings, possibly resulting in the group breaking up or waxing anti-heroic.

Elan would have his own options:

- He would likely rebel against his father like Nale did, but for moral reasons.
- As he forms his rebel unit, he might still consort with Sabine, hoping that the story will ultimately bring the fiend sent to corrupt him to become something other than fiendish over time. (This won't necessarily work, but hey, this is Elan we're talking about.) Sabine would talk him into a bunch of shady dealings, but probably defer to him when he really puts his foot down.
- We know he gets along with Thog, who might benefit from the positive influence.
- His kind nature might bring him to find ways to keep other party members alive.


Elan could end up in the dungeon of Dorukan pursuing a fitting way to come back and best his father, teaming up with the OOTS for genuine reasons. At that point...

- Elan could break the gate or a sigil with a touch accidentally, foreshadowing which of the brothers is actually pure of heart.
- Nale would probably start a plot that ultimately causes them to switch places permanently, realizing that he could probably take advantage of Elan's rebels and steer them to his whims. Belkar might go along with him, but Haley would likely note Elan's pure heart, then make sure he survives the event and joins the good guys.

Dark Matter
2011-12-21, 09:24 PM
Nale would have murdered his mother by now. Elan would have been murdered by his father by now.

Alternatively, perhaps Elan would be with Haley's dad trying to create a revolution.

Sunken Valley
2012-01-10, 09:52 AM
Well, maybe the Order would have formed but it would be (Origins spoiler):

Roy
Durkon
angel guy and four-armed guy who stormed the Gates of Hell

That would be Epic! Personally, I think the order would just have 4 members. Roy would find some way to get Haley and V on his side and it would be a streamlined party. Elan would probably be a shady neutral character in EoB. Nale would form the linear guild except this time to attack Elan for taking his rightful place at his father's side . Remember, evil potential

Bad Hair Day
2012-01-10, 07:20 PM
Nature vs. Nurture. It's a very old argument. We don't have enough information yet to really know the answer, but the answer will probably be what ever the author thinks on the NvN argument.