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View Full Version : The Razor (base class, 3.5, Peach) Bleed for me!



bobthe6th
2011-12-19, 12:28 AM
Design Plan
So the idea was a single hand based fighter, that could compare with a TWF. I also planed for it to be the master of silly amounts of attacks. This sort of makes up for being weak against DR, and the lower power attack multiplier, and the lack of maneuvers. I also planed that rather then dealing lots of damage on a hit, he should deal damage mostly in the form of stacking damage over time. As the only class with enough attacks to make this work.

To make up for the lack of maneuvers for utility, I mixed in a ton of additional utility abilities, and 4+int skills.
My aim was T3, and I think I hit it...

original plan:
so the idea was a single hand based fighter, that could compare with a TWF. I also planed for it to be the master of silly amounts of attacks. the individual attacks will often miss, but they should have enough attacks to compensate. I also planed that rather then dealing lots of damage on a hit, he should deal damage mostly in the form of stacking damage over time.


http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd303/numinous00027/Remia/Class%20Pics/Swashbuckler.jpg
image by numinous00027great
"Ha, all those tiny wounds mean nothing! It will take far more than that little frog sticker to best Denathor the Great *thump*..."-Denathor, lord of Silverdam succumbing to his wounds.


The Razor.


Most warriors seek to end combat with a few powerful blows. The Razor is of a different school, using many bleeding cuts to the same affect. His foes die after dozens of flesh wounds, laughing at the minor irritations.

Adventures: Razors adventure for most of the reasons warblades do. they might be out for glory, or out for gold. Though deep down most Razors just want to hone their fighting style... and the foes they face as adventurers are about as effective whet stones as they can find.

Characteristics: A Razor is the strong forward skirmisher. With his flurries of blows, and his fast tactical movement he can get in and out of combat with ease. A few blows is all he needs to quickly bleed most foes dry. even large foes will eventual bleed out. But as he is lighter armored then most melee, and has a lower HD, he is not at his best standing toe to toe with a foe.

Alignment: Any. The art of cutting is rather universal. Though good Razors tend to have a problem dealing with the cruel combat style they master.

Religion: Mostly Razors favor gods of war, and gods of speed. Evil Razors tend to also favor gods of blood and death.

Background: Razor can come from all walks of life. Though often self taught, razors can learn form masters of the style. The common denominator of all Razors origins is the desire to do harm to someone. Not the desire to kill someone, the desire to mortally wound them and watch them die. This can be a band of bandits that terrorized the Razors home town, or perhaps the psychotic rage of a mad Razor.

Races: As with all classes, humans are common as razors. Elves with their grace often become razors.

Other Classes: Razors are not the best without back up. They work best with another melee warrior, as they can quickly wound and withdraw letting his ally hold the foe till it drops of blood loss. With a focused support caster, the razor can truly dominate. With healing his low HP won't matter, and with a few armor class buffs, he can take on foes face to face. At higher levels, the Razor can truly master tactical movement. With long 5ft steps he can close with foes and let of a full attack. With his Ludicrous speed he can rush across the field with blinding speed.

Role: A Razor excels as a swift skirmisher, and can be pressed into the role of tank.

Game rule information.

Hit Die: d8
Starting Age: Simple
Starting Gold: 6d4x10
abilities: Strength can be useful, as you want to hit with a few of your blows, though it can be replaced with dexterity. As a Razor only has medium armor, a high dexterity is important to keep his ac high. With your low hit die, the extra HP from a high constitution is always useful.

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

1st|+1|+0|+2|+0|Quick Draw, Rapid Strike, Bleeding Cuts

2nd|+2|+0|+3|+0|Evade the Razor

3rd|+3|+1|+3|+1|Fast foot work, Fast movement

4th|+4|+1|+4|+1|Evasion

5th|+5|+1|+4|+1|Weak joints, Improved Bleeding Cuts

6th|+6/+1|+2|+5|+2|Accurate flurry, Wounded Links

7th|+7/+2|+2|+5|+2|Uncanny Dodge, Ludicrous Speed

8th|+8/+3|+2|+6|+2|Special Ability

9th|+9/+4|+3|+6|+3|Improved Evasion, Faster then the eye

10th|+10/+5|+3|+7|+3|Greater Bleeding Cuts

11th|+11/+6/+1|+3|+7|+3|Improved Uncanny Dodge

12th|+12/+7/+2|+4|+8|+4|Special Ability

13th|+13/+8/+3|+4|+8|+4|Improved Ludicrous Speed

14th|+14/+9/+4|+4|+9|+4|Improved Weak joints

15th|+15/+10/+5|+5|+9|+5|Master Bleeding Cuts

16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+5|+10|+5|Special Ability, Improved Wounded Links

17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+5|+10|+5|Speed cut

18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+6|+11|+6|Speed step

19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+6|+11|+6|Ludicrous Lunge

20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+6|+12|+6|Special Ability, Death by a thousand Razors
[/table]

skills: Balance(Dex), Bluff(Cha), Climb(Str), Craft(Int), Diplomacy(Cha), Escape Artist(Dex), Jump(Str), Profession(Wis), Sense Motive(Wis), Slight of Hand(Dex), Spot(Wis) Swim(Str), Tumble(Dex), and Use Rope(Dex).
skill points: 4+int mod(x4 at first level).

Class Features:

The following are class features of the Razor.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A Razor is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and with light armor, but not with any kind of shields.

AC Bonus (Ex): When unarmored and unencumbered, the Razor adds her Intelligence bonus (if any) to its AC. In addition, a Razor gains a +1 bonus to this AC at 4th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five monk levels thereafter (+2 at 8th, +3 at 12th, +4 at 16th, and +5 at 20th level).

These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the Razor is flat-footed. It loses these bonuses when she is immobilized or helpless, when it wears any armor, when she carries a shield, or when it carries a medium or heavy load.

Quick Draw: At first level, a razor gains the Quick Draw (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#quickDraw) as a bonus feat.

Rapid Strike (Ex): At first level, a Razor learns the art of attacking quickly with one hand. Whenever he makes an attack with a weapon held in one hand, with nothing in his other(s) hand(s)*, and when not attacking with any natural weapons, he may make an additional attack per off hand empty. This attack(s) is considered the same attack bonuses and penalties of the original attack, except strike maneuvers unless they are meant for two weapon fighting do not initiate their effect on both attacks. When using Rapid Strike both attacks are made with the following penalty:

{table]Level|One-handed|Light
1st-4th|-4|-2
5th-8th|-2|-1
9th and above|-0|-0[/table]

You may not Rapid Strike on an attack granted by Rapid strike.

*Rapid strike is a difficult style, and requires a great deal of practice. You only gain the benefit of empty hands as long as the hands are natural. So a Thri keen or marlith would benefit, while a human under the effects of a spell that gives him two extra arms won't.

Bleeding Cuts(Ex): At first level, a Razor learns to leave bleeding wounds. Every time the Razor deals lethal damage with any attack, he gives the target a point of bleeding. Bleeding points are multiplied on a critical hit just like normal damage. For each point a bleeding a creature has at the start of its turn, it take one point of damage.

Damage from the bleeding points stop one minute after the last amount of blood points were given to the creature. The points still exist on the creature until healed, any additional blood points given restarts the damage and one minute timer.

A DC 10 heal check can stop the bleeding as if one minute had past as a full round action. A DC 30 heal check removes all bleeding points from a creature with 1 minute of work.

If a creature regains hit points in any way, it heals an equal amount of bleeding points.

Creatures without vital fluids(blood, icor, alchemical fluid ect.) are immune to bleed points. Damage reduction doesn't apply against bleeding damage.

Evade the Razor(Ex): At second level, a Razor learns the art of avoidance. As long as he has a hand free, he gets a +2 shield ac, plus 1 per 4 points of base attack bonus, rounded up. This bonus is negated if the razor loses his dexterity bonus to armor class.

Fast foot work(Ex): At third level, a Razor learns to move quickly while keeping up his guard. He can now take 10ft steps in place of five foot step.

At seventh level he can take up to 2 10ft steps during his turn, both as free actions, with the normal limit on stepping(can't be done in a round you do normal movement).

At twelfth level, he may take up to 3 10ft steps during his turn, all as free actions, with the normal limit on stepping(can't be done in a round you do normal movement).

At seventeenth level, he may take 6 10ft steps, all as free actions, with the normal limit on stepping(can't be done in a round you do normal movement).

All step lengths are doubled under the effects of ludicrous speed.

Fast movement(Ex): At third level, a Razor learns to increase his speed. At third level he gets a 10ft bonus to land movement speed when wearing light or medium armor and carrying up to a heavy load. This increases to +20 ft at seventh level, +40 ft at twelfth level, and +70 ft at sixteenth level.

Evasion(Ex): At fourth or higher if a Razor makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if a Razor is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless Razor does not gain the benefit of evasion.

Weak joints(Ex): At fifth level, the Razor can sacrifice power for accuracy. He can take a 2 point penalty to all damage for a round to get +1 to hit for a round. The damage penalty can't exceed his base attack bonus.

Improved Bleeding Cuts: At fifth level, a Razor learns to leave even deeper cuts. Every time the Razor gives bleeding points, the amount of bleeding points is increased by one before other modifiers.

Accurate flurry(Ex): At sixth level, a Razor learns to sacrifice accuracy for Constancy. At the start of the Razors turn he can chose to take a penalty to his first iterative attack to gain a bonus in his latter iterative attack(s). This trade is 1(penalty)-2(bonus). for the first 5 points of bonus, the bonus applies only to the last iterative attack in a full attack action. Every point after that applies to both the second to last and last iterative attack in a full attack action. The penalty is caped at -1, increasing to -3 at +11 BAB, and -5 at +16 BAB. The penalty also applies to all attacks made during the round outside of the full attack.

Wounded Links(EX): at sixth level, a Razor learns to make the bloodless bleed, to hell with the possible. He can now give bleeding points to creatures and objects without vital fluid, but only half the normal amount of bleed points. This reduction is applied after all other modifiers(such as multiplication do to a critical hit).

Uncanny Dodge(Ex): At 7th level a Razor can react to danger before his senses would normally allow him to do so. He retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if he is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, he still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.
If a Razor already has uncanny dodge from a different class he automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead.

Ludicrous Speed(Ex): At seventh level, the Razor is moving with supernatural haste. As a free action, the Razor can chose to be treated as if under the effects of the Haste (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/haste.htm) spell until his next turn. This can be used a number of turns equal to ľ razor level, and these turns need not be consecutive. When there are no turns left, the Razor is considered fatigued (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#fatigued). After one minute of complete rest, the amount of rounds is reset.

Additionally, while under the effects of Ludicrous Speed, you can ignore the angle of any surface you are moving on as long as you are on a surface you could normally stand on at the end of your movement.

Special Ability: At eighth, twelfth, sixteenth, and twentieth levels a Razor selects a Special ability from the list below.

Parry: When you are attacked, you may use up one of your attacks of opportunity for the round to make an opposed attack roll with the attacker. If you beat the initial attack roll, the attack misses. If the foe beats your attack roll he hits as normal. This may be used against ranged attacks and spells that require an attack roll.

Riposte:(requires Parry) When you win an attack roll with parry against a target within your reach, you may take a standard action against the target. (this can be an attack, a disarm attempt, a trip attempt ect. but not any action that doesn't directly affects the foe. A tangle foot bag is entirely legitimate, a move action away is not.) Ranged weapons are considered for this purpose to have a reach of one range increment.

Attack on Preparation:(requires Parry and Riposte) When a foe declares an attack on you, you may make a reflex save. This uses one of your attacks of opportunity for the round. If you reflex save beats DC 10+1/2 foes BAB+foes dexterity modifier, you may make a standard action against the foe (this can be an attack, a disarm attempt, a trip attempt ect. but not any action that directly affects the foe. A tangle foot bag is entirely legitimate, a move action away is not.)
This can be used with parry and Riposte, though do note that both parry and this abilaty use up an attack of opportunity for the round.

Acrobatic Charge: You may chose to make a jump check at the start of a charge. For each 5 points of your check, you can move over a five ft. square during your charge without counting as touching it (you must be able to pass through the square normally if flying at ground level. so 20ft high wall? no. 5ft lava trench? yes). so you can charge across chasms, difficult terrain, a table ect.

Acrobatic Leap:(requires acrobatic charge) You may use acrobatic charge to travel in any direction, even vertically. you still use 5 points of the jump check for each 5ft you cross, and may only rise at a 45 degree angle from any surface(so you can run up a wall vertically, but only rise at a 45 degree angle if you jump straight into the air). if you run out of jump in the air you start falling at a 45 degree angle to the ground. you get a +5 untyped bonus on jump checks.

One Handed Rend: Your strikes add on each other. Every time you hit a foe with both an attack and the copy of the attack given by rapid strike, you give the foe additional bleed points equal to the normal amount you would give that foe with one hit.

Scratch: You sacrifice a deep initial wound for a greater target area. You may chose when attacking to attack a foes touch armor class. if you do so, you only deal 1 point of damage +1 point per 4 class levels if you hit, but give bleed points normally with the hit.

Bleeding defenses: You may strip a foe of his natural defenses along with his blood. When you hit a foe with damage reduction, you may chose to suppress his damage reduction in place of bleed points. The amount of DR suppressed is equal to the number of bleed points you chose not to give. The damage reduction is suppressed until your next turn. The suppression is cumulative.

Feats: Instead of an ability, a Razor may gain a feat from the following list. (rapid reload, weapon expertise, combat reflexes, improved initiative, improved disarm.)


Improved Evasion(Ex): At 9th level, a Razorís evasion ability improves. He still takes no damage on a successful reflex saving throw against attacks, but henceforth he takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless Razor does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.

Faster then the eye(Ex):At ninth level a Razor under the effects of Ludicrous speed and moving, he is invisible to all normal sense. He can still be sensed by supernatural means, such as blind sight and tremor sense. creatures that don't sense him do not get an attack of opportunity for the movement or any actions he makes as part of the movement. All creatures unaware of him are treated as flatfooted to his attacks during the movement. If he ends the movement out of a creatures line of sight it isn't aware the Razor passed through the space. If the Razor attacks during his move(due to feats like spring attack ect.) foes do not notice the wounds until after the Razor finishes his move.

Greater Bleeding Cuts(Ex): At tenth level, a Razor learns to leave still bloodier cuts. Every time the Razor gives bleeding points, he adds another point of bleeding before other modifiers.

Additionally, on a critical hit he deals 2 points of strength damage in addition to the attacks other effects, +1 point of strength damage for each additional point of critical multiplier. Creatures immune to critical hits are immune to the strength damage.

Improved Uncanny Dodge(Ex): At eleventh level, a Razor can no longer be flanked.
This defense denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack the character by flanking him, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target has Razor levels.
If a character already has uncanny dodge from a second class, the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead, and the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum rogue level required to flank the character.

Improved Ludicrous Speed(Ex): At thirteenth level, the Razor has mastered the art of supernatural bursts of speed. The number of turns he can use ludicrous speed before becoming fatigued increases to 1/2 razor level.

Additionally, the benefits of Faster then the eye improve. Now no sense can detect him while moving and under the effects of Ludicrous speed.

Improved Weak Joints(EX): At fourteenth level, the Razor can trade less damage for more accuracy. the exchange rate improves to 1(bonus):1(penalty).

Master Bleeding Cuts(Ex): At fifteenth level, a Razor learns to leave wounds that pour out blood. Every time the Razor gives bleeding points, he gives another point of bleeding before other modifiers.

Additionally, on a critical hit he deals 2 points of constitution damage, +1 point of constitution damage for each additional point of critical multiplier. Creatures immune to critical hits are immune to the constitution damage.

Improved Wounded Links: at sixteenth level, a Razor learns to make EVERYTHING BLEED! He can now give bleeding points to creatures and objects without vital fluid at the normally rate.

Speed cut(Ex): At seventeenth level, any weapon the Razor wields is considered to have the speed (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#speed) enhancement as long as he wields it. The extra attack granted by this abilaty stacks with the extra attack granted by the haste spell, and Ludicrous Speed.

Finally, when under the effects of Ludicrous Speed, the Razor can make an extra attack as part of a standard action attack.

Speed step(EX): At eighteenth level a Razor is moving to fast for the material plane. He is considered to be ethereal while under the effects of Ludicrous speed and moving.

Ludicrous Lunge(Ex): At nineteenth level, a Razor learns to keep his furious tempo even while running. While under the effects of Ludicrous speed, a Razor may make a full attack at the end of a charge.

Death by a thousand Razors(EX): At twentieth level, many of the Razors abilities improve. Every time the Razor gives bleeding points, he gives an additional point of bleeding(stacking). He now is constantly under the effects of Ludicrous speed, and is never at risk to be fatigued by it.



thoughts so far? to weak? to strong? not enough stuff? to much bleeding? an ability given to late? an ability given to early?

eidt:look, its much prettier now. fixed most of the grammar...
edit: major over haul. should be able to do its shtick sooner. also now accurate flurry works as intended.
edit: ok, messed with some fluff, and a few abilities.

bobthe6th
2011-12-19, 03:25 PM
I cleaned up the class, added some fluff, added a photo, and added 17th and 19th level abilities.


now can I get some PEACH?

eftexar
2011-12-19, 03:35 PM
Haste as an at will ability (especially if limited early on) isn't that big a deal. You might want to list activation and deactivation methods for ludicrous speed though.
You should probably mention attack on preparation is in addition to normal attacks of opportunity.
Bleeding as is is too powerful. Bleeding can be too easily restarted, making this a powerful ability. I would suggest eitehr adding in a method of permanently removing it (such as the panacea spell or even a higher heal check) or maybe something along these lines: "bleeding stops of its own accord 1 minute after bleeding damage was last dealt."

edit- why is ludicrous speed supernatural in nature? it would be viable as an extraordinary ability, after all it is just involves him moving really fast.

bobthe6th
2011-12-19, 03:55 PM
point... and actually, it isn't even at will. its a few rounds per day, though at will might be a good idea... perhaps that many rounds can be used before the Razor becomes fatigued and can no longer haste himself. after lets say one minute of rest, the fatigued effect is removed? that sound better? I think it will just be a free action activate deactivate.

Bleeding heals normally, but only after it has been seen to. I think a one minute timer that resets each time the creature takes more bleeding points would work better...

I had it as Su because it was kinda copying a spell. but you have a point... will change.

eftexar
2011-12-19, 04:12 PM
I like the fatigue idea. I have always thought that limits to uses per day is a bad idea for a melee oriented class (as they have so much less utility than spellcasters).

bobthe6th
2011-12-19, 04:20 PM
made some changes. added more clarification to bleeding points, fixed ludicrous speed/improved ludicrous speed/ death by a thousand cuts.


so hows it look now?


also, any other Ideas for the cap stone? it is kinda meant to make most of his main shtick better...


also, does anyone know how hard it is to get original ability names for this class. between swashbuckler, dervish, dualist ect... its a pain.

eftexar
2011-12-19, 04:23 PM
I would keep the capstone you have now, but would also make haste a constant effect at this point (no activation, no fatigue risk).

bobthe6th
2011-12-19, 04:39 PM
true. 20 rounds in a row is close to that, and a smart Razor would get his cleric to persist Haste at this point... changing.

bobthe6th
2011-12-19, 08:41 PM
so um... anyone else got an opinion on the class?

Elfstone
2011-12-19, 10:34 PM
Looks good, however please run it through a spell checker and repost it. The glaring typoes are likely turning people off.

bobthe6th
2011-12-19, 10:53 PM
I did before I posted it... but I can see why you thought that. freaking alinement. went back through and got all but one....

actually, what is the proper spelling or reposet? I personally make no claims to be able to spell in french(or Italian... not sure of its exact origin. guessing french.)

found and fixed

but other than my bad spelling/grammar, any opinions.

edit: currently doing a read through and editing as I go.
edit; and done I think. feel free to point out any massive errors you see.

maximus25
2011-12-20, 04:59 AM
Minor nitpick, but some capitalization would be appreciated. Also, might want to change uncanny dodge and evasion to Razor instead of Rogue and Monk. A pretty solid class, there are some wording issues with some of the abilities.

bobthe6th
2011-12-20, 10:32 AM
Ok did another run through, and fixed most of the above problems.
Now it shoukd be all cappitalized.... and I got the rest of the monk/rogue changes, and fixed the wording of evasion/improved evasion/uncanny dodge/improved uncanny dodge. I also caught the last of the female to male changes.

So,,, which of the abilaty wordings did you have a problem with?

Amechra
2011-12-20, 04:52 PM
You know what? It would not be overpowered if you made it so that you add Bleed points to your damage for every attack you make; sure it builds up, but if you think about it...

This is a melee class, designed around one of the worst combat styles (it is REALLY hard to get high damage with an Einhander), that has no bonuses to damage.

As it is, you are going to be adding only 21 points of damage cumulative to your target each round at level 20, if you can get close up to smack it around a bit, and connect with every attack. This is excluding stuff like attacks of opportunity and crit fishing, which you can't even do properly because all the stuff that gives you extra attacks on a critical hit will be negated by the fact that you are fighting one-handed.

I mean, sure, you can use Parry, Riposte and Attack on Preparation to get extra attacks, and you could Robilar's Gambit it up to get two attacks to every single attack you opponent makes (Riposte+Robilar's Gambit); however, this requires that your opponent is attacking you in melee, and is within you reach, which at later levels is a BAD assumption to make.

And also, while Bleeding Cuts does add up to semi-decent damage over a period of time (126 damage after 3 rounds is rather decent), that requires that you hit with every attack. For 3 rounds. I hope you don't run into anyone with Crit immunity, or miss chances, or Regeneration, or who don't have vital fluids... which are most high level enemies.

And at 2nd level where you get it, you are dealing 2 damage next round if you flurry. And make contact with every attack. Meanwhile, the Barbarian just added 2 damage to each attack with their Rage, combined with their better damage dice for their weapons.

So in the first 2 rounds of combat, you deal about 4*(1d6+Str)+6 damage if you hit with every attack! Yay! (I'm counting the Bleeding damage that is dealt at the beginning of the next round as damage you dealt that round.)

Meanwhile, over the same amount of time, the Barbarian has dealt 4d6+3*Str+8 damage (assuming they power attack for full both rounds; the penalty comes out to EXACTLY THE SAME), only needing to hit on two attacks. Consider that your average Barbarian will have a Strength score of around 20 while not raging, which goes up to 24 (26 with the right feats), whereas yours might have a 20 (Strength isn't your core Ability Score, but you can focus on it in the first couple of levels without nerfing yourself.)

So the Razor deals on average 40 damage, assuming all 4 attacks hit; the Barbarian deals 43 damage (46 with the right feats), with two attacks hitting.

However, replacing that with having it accrue per attack would have them deal the same 6 damage if all attacks hit in the first 2 rounds... but then the next round would bump that up to 15, rather than 12 extra points of damage (still assuming all hit), and then 28 damage rather than 20, and so on and so forth (I'm noting damage over the course of the rounds, not in a given round.)

Then, by 20th level, the difference would be +63 damage if all attacks hit in the first round, rather than +21.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that combats in DnD last such a short amount of time that damage over time becomes a horrible thing to base a class around, unless you are willing to make that damage rack up QUICKLY.

bobthe6th
2011-12-20, 06:01 PM
long response.
I think the wording is
"Every time the Razor deals damage with an attack, he deals a point of bleeding."
"At tenth level, a Razor learns to leave even deeper cuts. Every time the Razor deals damage with an attack, he deals an additional point of bleeding."
"At eighteenth level, a Razor learns to leave cuts that spray blood forth at an incredible rate. Every time the Razor deals damage with an attack, he deals an additional point of bleeding."
"At twentieth level, many of the Razors abilities improve. All attacks now deal an additional point of bleeding."
so um...
yeah...
at level 19 he can full out pounce, with a base speed +30 so a human now has a 120ft charge. if that doesn't reach a foe, it isn't in melee and you wip out a bow and start pew pewing at it, for 4 BP a hit. even before that he has some stupid long steps, starting at 10ft at 4th to 30ft at 20th. free aoo free movement. though I think I should make it start sooner... would a 30 step at 12 and a twenty at 8 be better? then maybe a 40ft step at 16 and a 60 ft step at 20? anyway...

at level 20 he adds 4 bleed points per hit multiplied on a crit, and can make 12 attacks as a full round.(he has auto haste and speed) 6 of which are at MAX BAB, or can be shifted around to make it 15/15/15/15/15/15/15/15/10/10/10/10 with str bonus+weapon bonus+ect... with the ability to trade a little damage for a boost to hit(as at this point, damage is very secondary. all you need is enough to beat DR, or a trick to beat DR like a metaline weapon and some knowledge). most of the time he should hit, and with a good crit rate (15-20 keen scimitar) 3 attacks should crit for 6 str damage+6 con damage+another 12 bleed points. 60 bleed points of bleed on a full attack+6 points of con damage and 6 points strength damage. then aoos which can double tap, aoos that he provokes ect... he should add about 80 damage a round in blood points to a foe if he rolls well. then he should do it again and agian and again... 60+round not high enough for you?

at a more midiling level, lets say 10. this is mid op, with rolled stats so he gets an 18 strength, and is carrying a +1 keen scimitar(he spent his feats building up for spring attack, for ninja fun later.) he has a full attack of +8+1+4=+13/+13/+7+1+4=+12/+12 assume the foe has 20 ac(not a heavily arrmored BBEG) he hits on a 8+ on his first two and a 9+ on his secound two. he hits with a little over half his swings. he crits about once a round.
he swings for 1d6+5 damage and 2 bleed points. so his average damage in a round is 3d6+15+2 points of strength damage+6 bleed points. weak but ok ish... unless he has a smart support caster! or gets some potions of haste as loot. then he getts another attack, and can stack on the bleed with a 50-50 chance of another crit, but regardless another hit. couple rounds and the dragon should fall...

Barbarian is the best melee at level one. before anyone else's styles are coming online, the Barbarian has his buff(rage) and is swinging the free weapon style THF for silly damage. this class is about as crappy as any other a level one...


up shot, I think it already does stack. if my wording was unclear...
but you did point out some gaps. I think he is getting some new stuff and some levels moved around.

Amechra
2011-12-20, 06:24 PM
I was thinking more along the line of "you add the amount of Bleeding points you have already accrued to each attack you make.", but I had missed the multiplication on a critical and the fact that it was 4 per attack at 20th level, rather than 3 per attack; so, yeah, the damage is better than I thought.

But, yeah, I still suggest moving Bleeding Strike to 1st level; it isn't OP at that point (though if you can find a way to one-hand a Scythe... which would look badass.)

And maybe a later class feature that lets you, say, shove the opponent, dealing the Bleed damage to them a second time that round as, say, a standard action to begin with, then a move action, then a swift action, or some other such set-up.

And something that lets them actually contribute vs. Constructs and the like.

bobthe6th
2011-12-20, 06:55 PM
would adding another point of bleeding at level 6, and moving the master version back to 16 be OP? would make the progression cleaner, with less weight at the end of the class.

bobthe6th
2011-12-20, 08:40 PM
ok, now it is less forward weighted, has some anti construct/undead tricks, weak joints works as intended(ie anti power attack), Luducrus speed comes much earlier in the progression, and fast foot work progression was increased to work as a short range pounce.

now he can attack a lot sooner, and gets better at it sooner.

so thoughts on the revised version? did I go overboard? under powered? OP? yes it gets haste at level 7, but for one round and then he's fatigued. it gets better, but until level 13 it isn't viable as an ability to use in every combat. then most combat he will run on full haste,as he had been if he had a smart support caster. and at level 20 the permanent effect is reasonable.

Soliloquy
2012-01-17, 05:55 PM
Is his name Denathor or Denithor?


and this class is incredible.
there is a PrC with one handed, but no cool bleeding

bobthe6th
2012-01-17, 07:11 PM
both, either. He was a little mad by this point, and thought Denithor sounded better...

glad you liked it.
the point was to make a swashbuckler that could kick butt with a martial addept.

the one handed options were just a bit sad, so I gave it all kinds of fun.

odd that this has resurfaced... made me remember to fix the speed step.

bobthe6th
2012-01-18, 10:53 AM
So any new PEACHs?

bobthe6th
2012-01-18, 05:22 PM
any new thoughts?

enderlord99
2012-01-18, 07:43 PM
The current version is awesome. Great job!:smallbiggrin:

bobthe6th
2012-01-18, 08:41 PM
really nothing? odd. I was waiting to have it all torn down on a small point. *sigh* I think I have written to many papers.

nobody sees a gaping flaw, a massive balance issue. I need something to keep procrastinating finishing my blasting way...

Dragon Star
2012-01-19, 01:41 AM
Riposte doesn't require parry. Attack on Preperation... I'm not sure about that. There is a feat (can't remember the name) that lets you make a 5ft step instead of a aoo, so if a razor takes it he has a good chance of being untouchable. I'm sure there are other abuses. Also, taking a feat is Rediculously useless compared with the other abilitys. Maybe make it any feat?

Other then that, and the capitalization errors, and the poor wording on bleeding damage this looks great. Well done, nice concept, and balanced if not completely polished.

Just to Browse
2012-01-19, 04:35 AM
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A Razor is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with up to medium armor(light and medium) but not with shields.and up to redundant armor (repetitive and redundant).

Also, you may want another picture / theme somehow. Your picture is a guy with a shield and a sword, and your theme is "wields only one thing at a time", which is a bit... conflicting. In reality, I'd also expect a hero to use both arms, regardless of their training. Perhaps you could emphasize that he uses the other hand to be a badass acrobat.

A 10-foot step is a huge deal in kiting. You can full attack, run back, and force opponents to use an entire move action to catch you. That makes this ability meh at level 3, but really awesome at levels 6 and up, which means this class becomes an optimal dip for high-dpr types. I recommend putting this at level 6-8, so as to disincentive dips (unless you're OK with the whole dipthong). Also, the scaling is kind of ridiculous--I'm reading this before looking at everything else in the class (and perhaps there's a speed boost somewhere), but it appears that you could theoretically take a "5' step" that is larger than your move speed. That's sort of disassociated.

Also, "weak joints" is weird... you require a -2 penalty per +1 to hit, but you say that the penalty cannot exceed 1/4 character level, which means the ability is useless until 8th level. What are you going for here? :smallconfused:

Could you clarify accurate flurry a bit for me? I'm not sure how to take it... and I'm also not sure (if my reading is correct) if there's any reason not to use it, since you get, overall, more accurate attacks on the whole.

You should add a clause to Ludicrous Speed that its penalties apply even if the player is immune to fatigue (like being a zombie or something).

Riposte should say "requires parry" or something.

.... annnnd the laptop is dying. Tiem for goes. I like the class, though. Well done, sir.

bobthe6th
2012-01-19, 08:28 AM
Ah, i love the smell of a good PEACH in the morning, but edditing has to wait till the after noon.

@DragonStar: AOP should only allow a strait attack, but I guess that's ambiguose.


@JTB: The repatition will be done away with.

Man... I had to dig for hours to find the picture. Its about the best I could find. And I never say he can't use both arms...

It also sets you up for a charge... which can be a pounce. This class is a bit TWF, and needs something to get in range for a full attack. And three half initiator levels... seems a fair prestige. Not sure... and the whole rediculose 5ft steps, well that's near epic. He is self hasting most of the time, and is acting like straw hat sammuri. The laws of phisics fell dieing under the feat of level gain.

Low level power attack. Sucks a bit, but if you need that +1 you need that +1.

It balences the iteratives a bit. The class needs to hit with most of its huge full attack to deal good damage. The trade off is, as a lot of your attacks will be full BAB and so take a little acuracy hit. It works out to about 1 pont of difrance between the attacks, and I could show you some of the math...

Yep an another yep.

Thanks!

bobthe6th
2012-01-19, 06:18 PM
ok, cleaned the repetition, clarified rapid flury, removed mettle/impoved from specials, clarified parry(slap a disintegrate out of the air and get a cookie) riposte(same goes for disarming a oger of his club) and attack on preparation(if anyone tags a wizard with a tangle foot bag on this... you win.), and added some charge fun to special tricks.

bobthe6th
2012-01-20, 07:50 PM
last bump before I let this refade... Does still need more input on the new stuff.

Elfstone
2012-01-21, 01:43 PM
Looks much better, but I would suggest taking an hour and making sure your grammar is perfect. Run it through an English spellchecker in word or something. Its hard to read because of how its written. Im not sure that I understand what an ability does or does not do... If you can do that I promise I'll give you a through critique.

Tavor
2012-01-21, 03:27 PM
I think this class is not relevant enough in combat.

Combats do not last long enough to make bleeding worth the extra bookkeeping.
Enemies immune to critical hits and those with Regeneration negate anything this class does. So will any creature with a DR you can't beat.

Sneak Attackers suffer from the same problem, but will deal more damage and have methods of circumventing immunties.

Trading damage for extra chance to hit is mindboggling, the rate at which it happens is downright insulting.

Those issues need to be adressed.
Then again, in a group with Core Monk and Ranger it probably would look useful.

Just to Browse
2012-01-21, 03:42 PM
I think this class is not relevant enough in combat.

Combats do not last long enough to make bleeding worth the extra bookkeeping.
Enemies immune to critical hits and those with Regeneration negate anything this class does. So will any creature with a DR you can't beat.My friend, I don't think DR applies against these abilities. Perhaps that wasn't outwardly stated, but "bleed" seems to be very much along the lines of "you are all ready wounded, and now it hurts more". Also, kiting for days.


Trading damage for extra chance to hit is mindboggling, the rate at which it happens is downright insulting.I agree with this. It should be 1/1.

Also, no, this is way better than core monk and core ranger.

bobthe6th
2012-01-21, 03:47 PM
note: at work on clarification/editing. also, tossed the 1-1 in with it already in the edit.

but yes, DR is a pain. but it should be a pain. THF get stuck on super AC foes, this can mow them down in a few rounds if he rolls well.

bobthe6th
2012-01-21, 04:01 PM
edit completed. should be more readable now. now ElfStone, your side of the bargain...

Jade Dragon
2012-01-21, 04:03 PM
but yes, DR is a pain. but it should be a pain. THF get stuck on super AC foes, this can mow them down in a few rounds if he rolls well.

Not really. Charging to switch the Power Attack penalty to your AC, Emerald Razor maneuver, not Power Attacking, some other ToB maneuver...

bobthe6th
2012-01-21, 04:12 PM
but its damage still is kinda meh, ready for insta gib of the foes freinds in range, once every other rounds and uses up manuvers.

see the new power boost. well kinda. also pre made general rebutal.

at level 19 he can full out pounce, with a base speed +30 so a human now has a 120ft charge. if that doesn't reach a foe, it isn't in melee and you wip out a bow and start pew pewing at it, for 4 BP a hit. even before that he has some stupid long steps, starting at 10ft at 4th to 30ft at 20th. free aoo free movement. though I think I should make it start sooner... would a 30 step at 12 and a twenty at 8 be better? then maybe a 40ft step at 16 and a 60 ft step at 20? anyway...

at level 20 he adds 4 bleed points per hit multiplied on a crit, and can make 12 attacks as a full round.(he has auto haste and speed) 6 of which are at MAX BAB, or can be shifted around to make it 15/15/15/15/15/15/15/15/10/10/10/10 with str bonus+weapon bonus+ect... with the ability to trade a little damage for a boost to hit(as at this point, damage is very secondary. all you need is enough to beat DR, or a trick to beat DR like a metaline weapon and some knowledge). most of the time he should hit, and with a good crit rate (15-20 keen scimitar) 3 attacks should crit for 6 str damage+6 con damage+another 12 bleed points. 60 bleed points of bleed on a full attack+6 points of con damage and 6 points strength damage. then aoos which can double tap, aoos that he provokes ect... he should add about 80 damage a round in blood points to a foe if he rolls well. then he should do it again and agian and again... 60+round not high enough for you?

at a more midiling level, lets say 10. this is mid op, with rolled stats so he gets an 18 strength, and is carrying a +1 keen scimitar(he spent his feats building up for spring attack, for ninja fun later.) he has a full attack of +8+1+4=+13/+13/+7+1+4=+12/+12 assume the foe has 20 ac(not a heavily arrmored BBEG) he hits on a 8+ on his first two and a 9+ on his secound two. he hits with a little over half his swings. he crits about once a round.
he swings for 1d6+5 damage and 2 bleed points. so his average damage in a round is 3d6+15+2 points of strength damage+6 bleed points. weak but ok ish... unless he has a smart support caster! or gets some potions of haste as loot. then he getts another attack, and can stack on the bleed with a 50-50 chance of another crit, but regardless another hit. couple rounds and the dragon should fall...

Barbarian is the best melee at level one. before anyone else's styles are coming online, the Barbarian has his buff(rage) and is swinging the free weapon style THF for silly damage. this class is about as crappy as any other a level one...

Elfstone
2012-01-21, 05:00 PM
Check Improved Wounding and Rapid Strike. :smallamused:

Im working on my side.

Tavor
2012-01-21, 05:05 PM
Let's talk at level 10 assuming a 24 Strength against your average enemy.
The Razor hastes himself and will attack at +17/+17/+17/+12 doing 1d8+8 (and for the sake of it +1d6 elemental damage) each. (average of 64)

64 dmg on average at level 10 is kinda meh, not to speak of stacking 4 points of bleeding the next round. Do we really care about those 4 points of damage at this point?
However, level appropriate enemies will never die to this full attack (due to hp inflation). You used your extended 5ft. step to move in, so you'll now eat a full attack (or worse: a grapple) in return. A d8HD character isn't someone who wants to be in that position.

If the Razor went the Spring Attack route this will get even worse, as you only get 2 attacks but get charged in return.

(If you use a more liberal read of Rapid Strike he'd get 6 attacks and deal ~96 dmg, which would put it into acceptable amount for that level, yet still not enough to one-shot most monsters at that CR - and even less reason to care about the bleeding damage)

Now you have a mean DM and you fight a Vrock(CR9) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/demon.htm#vrock)
You will probably not beat the DR 10/Good and the elemental damage will run into resistance.
Now you suddenly only deal an average total of 6 damage over 4 attacks. Ouch.
On the upside you suddenly care about the 4 points of bleeding damage next round. (well, not really)
This also assumes the Vrock won't use ablities like Fly/Telekinesis or his Stunning Gaze which the Razor will have trouble saving against with his low Fort save.

While I expect most melee to fail against Castermonsters this performance is incredibly bad.
Sure you can go the Power Attack route with the Razor, but you lack the feats of a THF build and it scales horribly with a 1h weapon.

bobthe6th
2012-01-21, 06:05 PM
(actually, you should add another four attacks at full BAB... haste+speed both flurried)

DR sucks for every one involved, so I suggest hasted rapid strike holy water. six flask a round, hitting near automatically except on a one, bleeding 2 each. average damage 4, so 24 damage and 12 bleeding. 40ft step away with quick drawn sword for parry. rinse and repeat. give it two-three rounds.

Deamons are mean, holy water is meaner.

Tavor
2012-01-21, 06:29 PM
*scratches head*
I dont see any flurry except for Accurate Flurry, which does not add attacks.

Anyway, i reread the abilities: by my count you get 6 attacks at level 10. 2 for bab+1 for haste. x2 for Rapid Strike. And I totally forgot Greater Bleeding cuts, so he causes 18 bleed. Now 18 dmg/round is something I care about and it will probably win you the fight against a grappler (assuming you get to do at least 1 full attack). A dedicated charger will die from bleeding after the Razor is dead unless he can get healed. :smallwink:
You might want to fix the name in the ability listing, it sais Improved Bleeding Cuts twice (at 5th and 10th).
Ok, he does level appropriate damage if it's abilities aren't negated (which is still a pretty long list).
That's what I get for just eyeballing a class, sorry. :smallsmile:


I still feel uneasy. The class lacks high level options, a common problem with nearly every classic melee. Additionally Low Fort- and Will-saves are really a weak point. Especially with Wis as a dumpstat.

edit: As for Holy Water, that kind of defeats the purpose of the class. And you could argue whether or not Rapid Strike even applies.

bobthe6th
2012-01-21, 06:44 PM
rapid attack... sigh, it is kinda flury ish... serves me right not reading the class for a month...

thank you, that was the idea. add the 2 strength damage on crits for kicks... and it can be fun.

your TWFing with one hand, thrown weapons +quick draw is fair game. but hand cross bow, rapid reload, good alined bolts. two feats, have fun.

speed weapon property. +3 bonus that is worth it for another 2 attacks.

high level, he can mess with spring attack and speed stepping, countering foes to death, and high crit fun...

Jade Dragon
2012-01-21, 06:46 PM
speed weapon property. +3 bonus that is worth it for another 2 attacks.

Doesn't stack with Haste. Since Ludicrous Speed is the same as Haste, it doesn't stack.

bobthe6th
2012-01-21, 06:49 PM
ok... odd I missed that... changing that fact right now...

edit: now the haste stacks with ludicrous speed.

Tavor
2012-01-21, 06:50 PM
your TWFing with one hand, thrown weapons +quick draw is fair game. but hand cross bow, rapid reload, good alined bolts. two feats, have fun.


But then your other hand isn't free. It is holding things, even though you throw or drop them. This negates Rapid Strike. If you want to allow for this, you need to specify so.

bobthe6th
2012-01-21, 06:52 PM
what is it holding? but you are correct. also, I think I should give it quick draw at first level, as it is a class about SPEED...

Tavor
2012-01-21, 07:10 PM
Might even want to think about giving the class access to Air Walk at higher levels.


Speed step(EX): At eighteenth level a Razor under the effects of Ludicrous speed and moving, he is considered invisible(nothing senses him in any manner and gets attacks of opportunity for the movement or attacks. All creatures unaware of him are treated as flatfooted to his attacks, and if he ends the movement out of a creatures line of sight it isn't aware of the razor). If the Razor attacks during his move(due to feats like spring attack ect.) foes do not notice the wounds until after the Razor finishes his move.

may I suggest editing as follows:

Speed step(EX): At eighteenth level a Razor under the effects of Ludicrous speed and moving is considered as if under the effect of Greater Invisibility (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/invisibilityGreater.htm) until the beginning of his next turn. If the Razor attacks during his move foes are unaware of the wounds until the beginning of their next turn.

If you want to make him immune to abilities like Blind Sense, Blind Sight, Tremorsense, True Seeing and other such abilities you should clarify it or use another word instead of Invisibility. That addition would certainly not break the ability. Even Sorcerers get 9th level spells at this level.

Elfstone
2012-01-21, 07:14 PM
But nobody can make them selves that invisibly without a lot of work. It should be some, not all. Not even casters can do that. If thats that this class was about I would say go for it, but from what I can tell, this is about making people bleed.

Note:This is not my full critique, just a part that needed to be said right now.

bobthe6th
2012-01-21, 07:16 PM
ah hem...
(nothing senses him in any manner and gets attacks of opportunity for the movement or attacks. All creatures unaware of him are treated as flatfooted to his attacks, and if he ends the movement out of a creatures line of sight it isn't aware of the razor)

I guess I should just state that any kind of sense misses him while running...

Tavor
2012-01-21, 07:19 PM
Well, it is level 18. Abilities compete with things like Time Stop and No Save instant kills. They should be remarkable.

bobthe6th
2012-01-21, 07:21 PM
ok clarified. now it is "invisible to all senses", using the actual meaning of the word, not the spell as a bassis.

edit: oop, just saw elfstones response.

it is just during the movement. at the end he is viable and before. I just wanted the straw hat samurai feel of the Razor suddenly being 20ft passed his foe, then his foe starting to turn round, then fall to a dozen pieces spurting blood from his dozen or so wounds.

Elfstone
2012-01-21, 07:45 PM
Thats fine if its only during movement, I understand where you are coming from.

Demidos
2012-01-22, 02:21 PM
Creatures without vital fluids(blood, icor, alchemical fluid ect.) are immune to bleeping damage.

:smalleek:
:smallamused:
:smallbiggrin:

bobthe6th
2012-01-22, 02:39 PM
well, someone should censor them. fixed

bobthe6th
2012-01-22, 08:14 PM
*prods elfstone*

NeoSeraphi
2012-01-22, 08:24 PM
You spelled "alignment" wrong.

The WotC-official word for "stacking" is "cumulative". I think it would help make your class sound a bit more official if you swapped to that word, but whether that's a good thing or not is up to you.

Riposte says "Any action that does not directly affect the enemy". I believe you meant to say "Except any action that does not directly affect the enemy" or "Any action that directly affects the enemy."

The cuts ability is interesting, however, I would restrict it to slashing weapons. (How are you going to cut someone open with a club or a lance?)

bobthe6th
2012-01-22, 08:56 PM
fixed alignment.

eh, I like stacking. might fix it if I feel board.

good catch, fixed with a double negative.

impact cuts bleed like crazy, an if you aren't bleeding from a lance wound...
the real trick is instead twisting the spear for larger wounds, and abrading with the club.

Thanks!

Elfstone
2012-01-22, 10:11 PM
*prods elfstone*

Alright alright. I was gone all day.

So Rapid Strike only ever grants one extra attack? Unless you use Grillions blessing to gain two empty hands? That can get fun...

I like everything up to weak joints. And I like the mechanic of weak joints. It just seems weird flavor wise.

Accurate flurry... Meh. Okay. I'll buy it.

Wounded links is good, very nice for this class.

Everything else is nice as well. Its come a ways and I think you've done a decent job.

Except for one thing. No class should only offer things in combat. He should have out of combat options too!!

Let him run up walls or something. Cut through objects, fashion weapons out of nothing, or something. Anything. He just needs to bring something else to the table besides cutting people(which he does really well). If you can do that, you might bring it up a tier. From 5-4 to 3-4 range.

bobthe6th
2012-01-22, 10:26 PM
Alright alright. I was gone all day.

So Rapid Strike only ever grants one extra attack? Unless you use Grillions blessing to gain two empty hands? That can get fun...

I like everything up to weak joints. And I like the mechanic of weak joints. It just seems weird flavor wise.

Accurate flurry... Meh. Okay. I'll buy it.

Wounded links is good, very nice for this class.

Everything else is nice as well. Its come a ways and I think you've done a decent job.

Except for one thing. No class should only offer things in combat. He should have out of combat options too!!

Let him run up walls or something. Cut through objects, fashion weapons out of nothing, or something. Anything. He just needs to bring something else to the table besides cutting people(which he does really well). If you can do that, you might bring it up a tier. From 5-4 to 3-4 range.

it was mostly for the thri-keens. a enihander thrikeen is something I want to see.

I'm not sure how to flavor it... I'll think about it.

I wanted to make the iteratives more accurate. Not sure...

I through it in at the suggestion that he needed something to do against bloodless foes.

haste, lots of haste... But that bares thought. I gave it 4+int skill points... hmm...

any suggestions? the three you gave are 1)a feat 2)adimantine and 3) mind blade... perhaps a sword of pure SPEED!

Wandiya
2012-01-22, 11:32 PM
You give them Quick Draw at level 1 then give them the ability to choose a feat. One of which happens to be Quick Draw. You mention ranged attacks in Rapid Strike, why not offer Quick Reload somewhere?

Just my 2cp.:smallbiggrin:

bobthe6th
2012-01-22, 11:59 PM
hmm... the first is cause I just tossed in the feat. you also need two hands for any ranged weapon other than thrown... which is covered by quick draw.

so up shot: will replace quick draw with something in the special feats.

and an Idea occurred to me. would giving a form of one handed rend work for a special ability? some thing like "hit a foe twice in one round, add x pb were x is the amount of bp you give on a normal strike"?

bobthe6th
2012-01-23, 12:24 AM
tossed quick draw from the feat list, and added one handed rend. not quite making rapid strike triple stri... ok got more abilities to add.

edit: now he can rend if he wishes. and can chose to just scratch foes to death...

edit: and the DR problem is fixed, and the utility thing.

bobthe6th
2012-01-24, 08:40 PM
so any thoughts on the new specials?

bobthe6th
2012-04-19, 04:43 PM
and one last edging on mancy bump...

RollynT.Glal
2012-04-20, 11:47 PM
Before I begin, I'd like to say that this is one of my favorite strictly martial class homebrews I've seen in a while. One-handed fighting gets no love mechanically and seeing it finally get a spotlight is exciting. I enjoy, the Bleeding-Points mechanic because I've always felt that a full attack should be more than the sum of its parts, especially with such a mechanically underpowered fighting style.

I do plan on bugging one of my players into trying a prestige version of this for his bounty hunter character.

Now for the PEACHing


Weapon and Armor Proficiencies:

Starting the class off with the lighter two grades of armor is good for emphasising the highly dextrous and speed focus early. Good job.


Quick Draw:

Good.


Rapid Strike (Ex): at first level, a Razor learns the art of attacking quickly with one hand. Whenever he is able to attack with a weapon held in one hand, with nothing in his other(s), and not using any natural weapons, he may make an additional attack per off hand empty.

First step in support for the One-handed fighting style. Good that it comes early, perhaps begging for a dip, but it is the focus of the class. My only question is how do you rationalize it being more useful for each hand not being used?
For example: The wizard casts Girallon's Blessing on the Razor then the Razor gets two more attacks despite not using any of either of the extra hands.


This attack(s) are with all the bonuses and penalties of the original attack. Each time a Razor uses this abilaty, all of his attacks get a stacking -4 penalty to hit until his next turn. If he is using a light weapon, the penalty is instead -2(stacking).

Could you explain the first sentence here? Does it mean that the extra attacks are at the Razor's highest base attack bonus? You may want to say it like that because as it's written now the first sentence can be used as an argument against the second.

(Ability, sorry I know its just a typo but its there)

What does the -4 penalty stack with? If it is just a penalty for using this ability you shouldn't have to say it stacks (the Two-Weapon Fighting penalties don't say they stack with any applicable and relevent penalties but they are understood to). And be careful saying that the Light-weapon penalty stacks because although I understand you mean instead of -4 the penalty is -2, someone may misunderstand it to mean instead of -4 the penalty is -6 (-4 and -2(stacking)).


He may not uses this ability on attacks made with this ability.

Please remove this sentence, else the Razor cannot use his signature ability.


At fifth level this to hit penalty is reduced to -2(still stack), for light weapons it is reduced to -1(stacking). at ninth level, this penalty disappears.

Again the problem of misunderstanding what penalties stack with which could make the class much less appealing than intended. Personally I would word the entry as follows :

Rapid Strike (Ex): At first level, a Razor learns the art of attacking quickly with one hand. Whenever he makes an attack with a weapon held in one hand, with nothing in his other(s), and when not attacking with any natural weapons, he may make an additional attack per off hand empty. This (These) extra attack(s) are all made at the Razor's highest base attack bonus. When using Rapid Strike all of the Razor's attacks are subject to the following penalties to hit until the beginning of his next turn:

{table]Level|One-handed|Light
1st-4th|-4|-2
5th-8th|-2|-1
9th and above|-0|-0[/table]


Bleeding Cuts (Ex): At first level, a Razor learns to leave bleeding blows. Every time the Razor deals lethal damage with any attack, he gives the target a point of bleeding. Bleeding points are multiplied on a critical hit just like normal damage. For each point a bleeding a creature has at the start of its turn, it take one point of damage.

Damage from the bleeding points stop one minute after the last amount of blood points were given to the creature. The points still exist on the creature until healed, any additional blood points given restarts the damage and one minute timer.

This is a wonderful mechanic, and it works great for the Razor.
The only problem is the qualifier "lethal damage". Almost everything causes lethal damage including a Wizard's Acid Splash or Ray of Frost. I'm not sure if you intended this to happen but with the only requirement being that the attack cause lethal damage, the Razor is not required or encouraged to use Rapid Strike, or even the One-handed fighting style at all.

To further emphasize the One-handed fighting style above all others perhaps you could require the attacks be part of a Rapid Strike, Attack of Opportunity used with one weapon, while all other hands are free, and any other special attacks given by the Razor class in order to deal Bleeding Points.


A DC 10 heal check can stop the bleeding as if one minute had past as a full round action. A DC 30 heal check removes all bleeding points from a creature with 1 minute of work.

If a creature regains hit points in any way, it heals an equal amount of bleeding points.

Creatures without vital fluids(blood, icor, alchemical fluid ect.) are immune to bleed points. Damage reduction doesn't apply against bleeding damage.

Good, maybe to encourage smart play DR/Slashing, DR/Piercing and DR/Bludgeoning apply against appropriate weapons when determining bleeding points, but that's just a "it might be cool if" idea rather than an "it might be better if" idea.


Evade the Razor (Ex): At second level, a Razor learns the art of avoidance. As long as he has a hand free, he gets a +2 shield ac per 5 points of base attack bonus, rounded up. This bonus is negated if the razor loses his dexterity bonus to armor class.

This ability is great for demonstrating the focus for the class, mobility and speed. My only problem is that it only requires one free hand, a Thri-kreen or a two-armed character under the affects of Girallon's Blessing spell can have three arms occupied.

For sake of argument let's say Regdar has Girallon's Blessing cast on him and he decides to use a greatsword and a heavy shield (perhaps he took Shield Proficiency as his human bonus feat at first level just for this occasion). While he cannot use his Rapid Strike ability, (in my opinion the Razor should have to be eligible to use Rapid Strike in order to pull off his other class abilities) he would still get his +2 AC in addition to the shield bonus to AC.

I would say, like I will for many of these, require that the Razor be eligible to use Rapid Strike (that is with only one hand occupied) to be eligible for Evade the Razor.


Fast foot work (Ex): At third level, a Razor learns to move quickly while keeping up his guard. He can now take 10ft steps in place of five foot step. At seventh level he can take 20ft steps in place of 10ft steps. At twelfth level, he may take 30ft steps in place of 20ft steps. at seventeenth level, he may take 60ft steps in place of 30ft steps. The step length is doubled under the effects of ludicrous speed.

I'm not quite sure about this one, I'll take some time to look over it specifically then I'll get back to you.

As I said, I really enjoy this class. Thank you. I hope my critiques so far are of use to you and I do plan on PEACHing the rest of the class in time, but I think that's good for now.

bobthe6th
2012-04-21, 12:14 AM
Before I begin, I'd like to say that this is one of my favorite strictly martial class homebrews I've seen in a while. One-handed fighting gets no love mechanically and seeing it finally get a spotlight is exciting. I enjoy, the Bleeding-Points mechanic because I've always felt that a full attack should be more than the sum of its parts, especially with such a mechanically underpowered fighting style.

I do plan on bugging one of my players into trying a prestige version of this for his bounty hunter character.

Now for the PEACHing

ah, the smell of a fresh PEACH in the late afternoon... smells like success



First step in support for the One-handed fighting style. Good that it comes early, perhaps begging for a dip, but it is the focus of the class. My only question is how do you rationalize it being more useful for each hand not being used?
For example: The wizard casts Girallon's Blessing on the Razor then the Razor gets two more attacks despite not using any of either of the extra hands.


this is really mechanics justification... I don't have a good fluff answer.

fixed

clarified

no, he can't use the rapid strike to rapid strike his rapid strike for infinite attacks.

edited and added



This is a wonderful mechanic, and it works great for the Razor.
The only problem is the qualifier "lethal damage". Almost everything causes lethal damage including a Wizard's Acid Splash or Ray of Frost. I'm not sure if you intended this to happen but with the only requirement being that the attack cause lethal damage, the Razor is not required or encouraged to use Rapid Strike, or even the One-handed fighting style at all.

To further emphasize the One-handed fighting style above all others perhaps you could require the attacks be part of a Rapid Strike, Attack of Opportunity used with one weapon, while all other hands are free, and any other special attacks given by the Razor class.


I don't want to force einhander on the player. they know how to cause bleeding whatever their method.

not sure what you meant there?



This ability is great for demonstrating the focus for the class, mobility and speed. My only problem is that it only requires one free hand, a Thri-kreen or a two-armed character under the affects of Girallon's Blessing spell can have three arms occupied.

For sake of argument let's say Regdar has Girallon's Blessing cast on him and he decides to use a greatsword and a heavy shield (perhaps he took Shield Proficiency as his human bonus feat at first level just for this occasion). While he cannot use his Rapid Strike ability, (in my opinion the Razor should have to be eligible to use Rapid Strike in order to pull off his other class abilities) he would still get his +2 AC in addition to the shield bonus to AC.

I would say, like I will for many of these, require that the Razor be eligible to use Rapid Strike (that is with only one hand occupied) to be eligible for Evade the Razor.

shield ac dosn't stack with itself... so no free AC there.



glad for the feed back. always good to have PEACHs

bobthe6th
2012-06-28, 01:46 PM
just cleaned up the opening fluff a lot, and fixed some more typos... still open to PEACH...

Madara
2012-06-28, 03:48 PM
skills: Balance(DEX), Bluff(CHA), Climb(STR), Craft(INT), Diplomacy(CHA), Escape Artist(DEX), Jump(STR), Profession(WIS), Sense Motive(WIS), Swim(STR), Tumble(DEX), and Use Rope(DEX).
skill points; 4+int mod(x4 at first level).

Athletic skills seem appropriate. I question the placement of Bluff and Diplomacy, however.


Class Features

The following are class features of the Razor.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A Razor is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with light and medium armor, but not with any kind of shields.

Wait. Wait. Hold the phone. Two things: I notice that there's no heavy armor proficiency(Which is fine, and makes sense). But I also notice no shield proficiency. What is the point of using one hand if you can't go sword and board? Just TWF. At least make them proficient with the buckler, that would make sense.


Quick Draw: At first level, a razor gains the Quick Draw (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#quickDraw) as a bonus feat.

Nothing special, but it fills a need.


Rapid Strike (Ex): At first level, a Razor learns the art of attacking quickly with one hand. Whenever he makes an attack with a weapon held in one hand, with nothing in his other(s), and when not attacking with any natural weapons, he may make an additional attack per off hand empty. This attack(s) is considered the same attack bonuses and penalties of the original attack. When using Rapid Strike all of the Razor's attacks are subject to the following penalties to hit until the beginning of his next turn:

{table]Level|One-handed|Light
1st-4th|-4|-2
5th-8th|-2|-1
9th and above|-0|-0[/table]

This isn't much better than taking the TWF feat. Remember, your class level should have more value than a single feat. Also, I see the bonuses for having extra hands, it makes this better. This works for an acceptable ability, but it wouldn't work as the focus of the whole class.


Rapid Strike(EX): at first level, a Razor learns the art of attacking quickly with one hand. Whenever he is able to attack with a weapon held in one hand, with nothing in his other(s), and not using any natural weapons, he may make an additional attack per off hand empty. This attack(s) is considered the same attack bonuses and penalties of the original attack. Each time a Razor uses this ability, all of his attacks get a stacking -4 penalty to hit until his next turn. If he is using a light weapon, the penalty is instead -2(it still stacks with itself). He may not uses this ability on attacks made with this ability. At fifth level this to hit penalty is reduced to -2(still stack), for light weapons it is reduced to -1(stacking). at ninth level, this penalty disappears.

this can be used with ranged weapons as long as your off hand is free and you can reload as a free action.


he may make an additional attack per off hand empty.

Why are there two rapid strikes? I am very confused... :smallannoyed:


Bleeding Cuts(Ex): At first level, a Razor learns to leave bleeding blows. Every time the Razor deals lethal damage with any attack, he gives the target a point of bleeding. Bleeding points are multiplied on a critical hit just like normal damage. For each point a bleeding a creature has at the start of its turn, it take one point of damage.

Damage from the bleeding points stop one minute after the last amount of blood points were given to the creature. The points still exist on the creature until healed, any additional blood points given restarts the damage and one minute timer.

A DC 10 heal check can stop the bleeding as if one minute had past as a full round action. A DC 30 heal check removes all bleeding points from a creature with 1 minute of work.

If a creature regains hit points in any way, it heals an equal amount of bleeding points.

Creatures without vital fluids(blood, icor, alchemical fluid ect.) are immune to bleed points. Damage reduction doesn't apply against bleeding damage.

I suggest adding extra abilities. Rather than just damage-dealing, add some debuff. Like "A creature with more bleed points than it has HD moves at half its normal speed." This ability is a good opportunity to expand the options available to the Razor.


Evade the Razor(Ex): At second level, a Razor learns the art of avoidance. As long as he has a hand free, he gets a +2 shield ac per 5 points of base attack bonus, rounded up. This bonus is negated if the razor loses his dexterity bonus to armor class.

This is pretty nice, it works. A little bit of a pain to calculate. I don't know if you can reword it to be a flat bonus? Also, despite getting the ability at this level, he doesn't get the bonus, since he needs at least 5 BaB.


Fast foot work(Ex): At third level, a Razor learns to move quickly while keeping up his guard. He can now take 10ft steps in place of five foot step. At seventh level he can take 20ft steps in place of 10ft steps. At twelfth level, he may take 30ft steps in place of 20ft steps. at seventeenth level, he may take 60ft steps in place of 30ft steps. The step length is doubled under the effects of ludicrous speed.

This is useful. I would suggest maxing out at 30ft. then allowing a normal 5ft. step as an immediate action X/day


Evasion(Ex): At fourth or higher if a Razor makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if a Razor is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless Razor does not gain the benefit of evasion.

Not much to say. Evasion is a very useful ability, and you're adding it at the right level.


Weak joints(Ex): At fifth level, the Razor can sacrifice power for accuracy. He can take a 2 point penalty to all damage for a round to get +1 to hit for a round. The damage penalty can't exceed his base attack bonus.

Reverse power attack? It can be useful, and with bleed points, its more powerful than normal.


Improved Bleeding Cuts: At fifth level, a Razor learns to leave even deeper cuts. Every time the Razor gives bleeding points, he gives an additional point of bleeding(stacking).


You could just list this under the Bleeding cuts ability, rather than make it separate.


There is a lot of material here, I'll get to the rest later.

bobthe6th
2012-06-29, 09:27 AM
*note* the edits apparently didn't save... redoing them now.



As always, thanks for a PEACH



Athletic skills seem appropriate. I question the placement of Bluff and Diplomacy, however.

I wanted to hand out some out of combat abilities, and as the class could be used to make a swashbuckling character, I left them open.



Wait. Wait. Hold the phone. Two things: I notice that there's no heavy armor proficiency(Which is fine, and makes sense). But I also notice no shield proficiency. What is the point of using one hand if you can't go sword and board? Just TWF. At least make them proficient with the buckler, that would make sense.


It is meant to make the one weapon in one hand archetype(a archetype that has quite a few examples) effective. to use their main fighting style, they need their off hand free... so shields make little to no sense.




Nothing special, but it fills a need.


I will addmit I like quick draw a little to much...



This isn't much better than taking the TWF feat. Remember, your class level should have more value than a single feat. Also, I see the bonuses for having extra hands, it makes this better. This works for an acceptable ability, but it wouldn't work as the focus of the whole class.


correction, this is four-six feats... I think it is more then nothing. but it is only partialy the focus of the class, really more like a third of the focus. Also, the benafit can't be replicated with a feat, as one hand only has no such feat.



Why are there two rapid strikes? I am very confused... :smallannoyed:


nothing to see here:smallwink:



I suggest adding extra abilities. Rather than just damage-dealing, add some debuff. Like "A creature with more bleed points than it has HD moves at half its normal speed." This ability is a good opportunity to expand the options available to the Razor.


I was leaving it simple, but yeah I could add some debuff affects... perhaps as semi menuvers...



This is pretty nice, it works. A little bit of a pain to calculate. I don't know if you can reword it to be a flat bonus? Also, despite getting the ability at this level, he doesn't get the bonus, since he needs at least 5 BaB.




rounded up

so 1-5 +2, 6-10 +4, 11-15 +6, 16-20 +8



This is useful. I would suggest maxing out at 30ft. then allowing a normal 5ft. step as an immediate action X/day


but then you get abrupt jaunt like shenanigans... could work though, will think about it...



Not much to say. Evasion is a very useful ability, and you're adding it at the right level.


well, it is supposed to be the fast melee class...



Reverse power attack? It can be useful, and with bleed points, its more powerful than normal.


yep, glad you like it...



You could just list this under the Bleeding cuts ability, rather than make it separate.


it does fill some levels though... but yes I should probably find something else to fill them with.



There is a lot of material here, I'll get to the rest later.

as you have time, no pressure.

bobthe6th
2012-06-29, 02:23 PM
added fast movement, redid some fluff, and changed the picture...

bobthe6th
2012-08-20, 09:14 PM
some new interest in PMs, that I wish to allow to post here. also, I may be modifying due to playtesting that may happen soon.

so, bump.

Re'ozul
2012-08-22, 02:10 PM
I like death of a thousand needles. So here is my two coppers.

Fluff: The class itself feels more chaotic than lawful to me and you already adressed the same feeling between good and evil.
I have to admit though that I simply cannot see it as a tank. Mechanics-wise it has capability to be one, but saying it can be pressed to be one seems somehow wrong to me.

Chassis: Your design says you'd want a class that gets lots of attack where many may miss. As such Full BAB seems odd. Medium may be better. That increase could go into a good Will save as mental discipline is something someone like this could need. Though this greatly depends on how Rapid Strike works (adressed later)

Skills: Needs (in my opinion) Spot (as a trained eye helps pick out vital spots and enriches the effect of seeing the enemies lifeblood spill out) and sleight of hand (as speed of body and hands in particular is of essence in the class)

Proficiencies: Seem good for the class

Quick Draw: Appropriate

Rapid Strike: Here I have to ask wether this only works on standard action attacks or all attacks? Does a human at level 16 effectively get one additional attack for each attack in a full attack action? Does a four armed craetire get 3 additionals (so at BAB 16 a four armed creature would get 16 attacks on a full attack action). If yes, then Full BAB is too good, if not and it only applies to standard attack actions its okay I guess.
However, questions on other attack forms remain: Maneuvers; AoOs; the extra attacks granted by the later special abilities (Riposte etc). The additional attack from loudicrous speed if this applies to full attack actions.
Depending on how far this applies it could utterly break the class as is.

The progression on penalty however is good and is what TWF should be.

Bleeding Cuts: Very nice mechanic and can become very deadly very fast. In low levels each attack that hits usually means the enemy is dead, they just don't know it yet. It has the same basic enemies as sneak attack, though could oozes be affected as they ARE their own lifeblood, and would start leaking potentially?

Evade the Razor: Very nice, though overall bonus at 16+ is potentially more than most shields can ever give, not sure if thats appropriate or a bit strong.

Fast Foot work: The way its described is very comical. I imagine a 60ft step to look like a cartoon character whose legs stretch to a distant position, then his body follows and his other leg retracts. It seems strange. Perhaps increase to 10ft step then allow more 5ft steps per round that can be used inbetween attacks.

Fast Movement: Fits the class, but damn thats a lot of movement.

Evasion: The class is based on speed an being nimble, no question, this fits.

Weak Joints: Reverse Power attack. This one is interesting if you allow the possibility of damage dropping to zero to occure (as that would inhibit blood point giving). It would make for a nice balancing act not only on how much penalty you can allow for yourself, but also how much to invest in strenght/damage enhancing equipment to allow for taking more penalties. Very nice this one.

Improved Bleeding Cuts: This and the others that follow suffer from RAW arguments that will most likely be created:
If you use a weapon that has a crit of x3 do you now do 6 points (2x3) or 4 (3+1)? Not only that but the same problem is created later when constructs and such are halfway affected, does this mean you do half a point plus one?
A straight up description of "you now give two blood points per damaging attack instead of one" might be better unless that is not directly what you had in mind.

Accurate Flurry: An interesting gamble Mechanic that eventually allows you to make all iteratives at the same attack bonus. Situational but could be useful.

Wounded Links: Partial effect on these things is very good at this level to avoid becoming less useful.

Uncanny Dodge: Thematically fitting and allows for near permanent use of Evade the Razor.

Ludicrouse speed: Somewhat exploitable as you will never be fatigued as long as you leave one round as reserve. Otherwise fine as the bonuses increase what you can do but aren't that bad.
The improved version allows for that exploit even more.

Improved weak joints: May be too strong. Especially if you keep Full BAB.

Improved Wounded Links: At that level you should know how to debilitate these creatures.

Faster than the Eye: A free enchant is a nice thing and it stacks with your haste. Does the attack gained from this one allow for Rapid attack?

Speed Step: What about magic? True seeing? At this point you can easily have a 140' move (30' base+ quick trait+fast movement+ludicrous). Thats a lot of distance you can cover with a surprise shanking.
The fact that they are flatfooted automatically becomes even more dangerous with the Scratch ability.

Ludicrous Lunge: Ouch. you charge from 280ft away. wasn't there a way that allows fro charge distance to give damage bonuses?

Death by a thousand Razors: So now you give 5 bleed with each attack and you are effectively non-existant to everyone when you move. This is level 20 so its not OP, though it does scream instant-ninja to me.

Special abilities:

Parry: Okay, but usually not worth it in melee if you are facing few enemies as they generally hit higher than you. Still, the ability to effectively deflect spells makes this great (though that use is perhaps to powerful as it copies an epic feat exceptional deflection. While that one is automatic, the fact that most spell attacks are low as they only need to hit touch, makes overcoming those rolls pretty easy)

Riposte: Ad I said, using it on melee is not that good, though quickdraw with tanglefoot bag or throwing dagger is fun, but that could in turn provoke an AoO for doing a ranged attack while in melee) Overall this one is okay, but only really good as it allows...

Attack on Preperation: So this is effectively an interrupt. If you don't make the safe, can you still use Riposte/Parry when the enemy actually attacks you? This ones better in melee especially against big burly guys with crappy dexterity.

Acrobatic Charge: Situationally useful, but nowhere near as good as someof the other abilities.

Acrobatic Leap: See Acrobatic Charge. I just can't see this class using this all too often as I see it more as a hit&run class and charging stops you next to the enemy.

One Handed Rend: Useful early on, but unless its "for each two hits per round" the actualy ibcrease in points becomes less of a factor later and isn't good enough to use one of the few ability slots for it.

Scratch: This is the big one. The only thing that can stop this is DR but the options you get with it are phenomenal. And for the DR problem you have...

Bleeding Defenses: This one is somewhat strange. Usually you need to overcome DR to implement an effect and nothing in this says its different. But if you can overcome its DR why would you need so sacrifice valuable blood points to lower it? It could work if you are allowed to "Instead of dealing damage with a given attack you may lower the targets DR by the number of blood points the attack could have given to the target".

Feats: eh, better choices than that. Also, you mention weapon expertise twice.

My choices would be: Parry, Scratch, Bleeding Defenses, Riposte in that order most likely.

bobthe6th
2012-08-23, 12:55 AM
sorry I missed this for so long...


I like death of a thousand needles. So here is my two coppers.

sweet, love my PEACHers... love you all!



Fluff: The class itself feels more chaotic than lawful to me and you already adressed the same feeling between good and evil.
I have to admit though that I simply cannot see it as a tank. Mechanics-wise it has capability to be one, but saying it can be pressed to be one seems somehow wrong to me.


I wrote that fluff near on a year ago... I don't remember 80% of it. Will happily take suggestions, like the above.



Chassis: Your design says you'd want a class that gets lots of attack where many may miss. As such Full BAB seems odd. Medium may be better. That increase could go into a good Will save as mental discipline is something someone like this could need. Though this greatly depends on how Rapid Strike works (adressed later)


full gets the most attacks... and I want to avoid the classic flurry of misses the monk is known for. This is a full power melee class... it needs to BAB for feats and other such fun.



Skills: Needs (in my opinion) Spot (as a trained eye helps pick out vital spots and enriches the effect of seeing the enemies lifeblood spill out) and sleight of hand (as speed of body and hands in particular is of essence in the class)


reasonable. I will add.



Proficiencies: Seem good for the class


thank you



Quick Draw: Appropriate


love this feat so much...



Rapid Strike: Here I have to ask whether this only works on standard action attacks or all attacks? Does a human at level 16 effectively get one additional attack for each attack in a full attack action? Does a four armed craetire get 3 additionals (so at BAB 16 a four armed creature would get 16 attacks on a full attack action). If yes, then Full BAB is too good, if not and it only applies to standard attack actions its okay I guess.
However, questions on other attack forms remain: Maneuvers; AoOs; the extra attacks granted by the later special abilities (Riposte etc). The additional attack from loudicrous speed if this applies to full attack actions.
Depending on how far this applies it could utterly break the class as is.

The progression on penalty however is good and is what TWF should be.


this is about what a TWF should be in my opinion. yes, all attacks... ALL OF THEM! you are giving up 1:2 power attack, and a bigger damage die with each attack... and need to hit the ac twice.

might add a note it doesn't double maneuvers... or that only one gets it. I think it already doesn't work, but a not is needed. Thanks for pointing it.

you can get all but the last attack on a full round with the right feats, on a full attack bonus class even.

thri keen pay a ludicrous amount for their arms... this is why.



Bleeding Cuts: Very nice mechanic and can become very deadly very fast. In low levels each attack that hits usually means the enemy is dead, they just don't know it yet. It has the same basic enemies as sneak attack, though could oozes be affected as they ARE their own lifeblood, and would start leaking potentially?


at low levels, each attack can potentialy = your hp... so as a rule it is not that far from the bell curve.

they could be, but DM fiat.



Evade the Razor: Very nice, though overall bonus at 16+ is potentially more than most shields can ever give, not sure if thats appropriate or a bit strong.


+5 tower beats it at the high end... which it could have animated... but I digress. perhapce have it bump every 4 after 4 to act as enhancment bonuses, caping as a +5 heavy shield at 17+?



Fast Foot work: The way its described is very comical. I imagine a 60ft step to look like a cartoon character whose legs stretch to a distant position, then his body follows and his other leg retracts. It seems strange. Perhaps increase to 10ft step then allow more 5ft steps per round that can be used inbetween attacks.


that... is a much better plan. will use actually.





Fast Movement: Fits the class, but damn thats a lot of movement.


hey, it is a speed class... but yeah at high levels it gets silly... now add HASTE!



Evasion: The class is based on speed an being nimble, no question, this fits.


yep, now it can mage slay.



Weak Joints: Reverse Power attack. This one is interesting if you allow the possibility of damage dropping to zero to occure (as that would inhibit blood point giving). It would make for a nice balancing act not only on how much penalty you can allow for yourself, but also how much to invest in strenght/damage enhancing equipment to allow for taking more penalties. Very nice this one.


exactly, think about DR, and if you want to bet they don't have it. or if you want to kill them faster. choices choices.



Improved Bleeding Cuts: This and the others that follow suffer from RAW arguments that will most likely be created:
If you use a weapon that has a crit of x3 do you now do 6 points (2x3) or 4 (3+1)? Not only that but the same problem is created later when constructs and such are halfway affected, does this mean you do half a point plus one?
A straight up description of "you now give two blood points per damaging attack instead of one" might be better unless that is not directly what you had in mind.


reasonable... I will think on clarifying that it is added before any multiplication or division...



Accurate Flurry: An interesting gamble Mechanic that eventually allows you to make all iteratives at the same attack bonus. Situational but could be useful.


mostly, to keep the number of diffrent modifiers down, and limit the "flurry of misses" effect.



Wounded Links: Partial effect on these things is very good at this level to avoid becoming less useful.


would but it sooner... but this is the lowest I can fit it. thank you.



Uncanny Dodge: Thematically fitting and allows for near permanent use of Evade the Razor.


yep, it is in general a good ability.



Ludicrouse speed: Somewhat exploitable as you will never be fatigued as long as you leave one round as reserve. Otherwise fine as the bonuses increase what you can do but aren't that bad.
The improved version allows for that exploit even more.


limited spell casting is fun. and, getting (level/4)-1 rounds is a reasonable cost to avoid fatigue. same for later... it isn't that many rounds, losing one is a real cost.



Improved weak joints: May be too strong. Especially if you keep Full BAB.


a fair point... perhaps drop to 1:1?



Improved Wounded Links: At that level you should know how to debilitate these creatures.


yep...



Faster than the Eye: A free enchant is a nice thing and it stacks with your haste. Does the attack gained from this one allow for Rapid attack?
[quote]

yep.


[quote]
Speed Step: What about magic? True seeing? At this point you can easily have a 140' move (30' base+ quick trait+fast movement+ludicrous). Thats a lot of distance you can cover with a surprise shanking.
The fact that they are flatfooted automatically becomes even more dangerous with the Scratch ability.


hmm... no, magic wouldn't work... you are just being to fast not being invisible. YOU ARE FASTER THEN THEY CAN SEE, rather then turning magically invisible. Might need a nerf for the flat foot... but hell this is level 18, a mini cap stone if you diped for 2 levels.



Ludicrous Lunge: Ouch. you charge from 280ft away. wasn't there a way that allows fro charge distance to give damage bonuses?


no idea, and yep. also, acrobatic leap 280 ft straight up to hit the irritating caster.



Death by a thousand Razors: So now you give 5 bleed with each attack and you are effectively non-existant to everyone when you move. This is level 20 so its not OP, though it does scream instant-ninja to me.


well... you went 20 levels as a semi ninja.


glad you took a look at these!



Special abilities:

Parry: Okay, but usually not worth it in melee if you are facing few enemies as they generally hit higher than you. Still, the ability to effectively deflect spells makes this great (though that use is perhaps to powerful as it copies an epic feat exceptional deflection. While that one is automatic, the fact that most spell attacks are low as they only need to hit touch, makes overcoming those rolls pretty easy)



epic feats should as a rule be non epic... they are stupidly limiting. and yeah... make the wizard remember why he doesn't chill touch in public.



Riposte: Ad I said, using it on melee is not that good, though quickdraw with tanglefoot bag or throwing dagger is fun, but that could in turn provoke an AoO for doing a ranged attack while in melee) Overall this one is okay, but only really good as it allows...
[B]


yep, fun fun fun.



Attack on Preperation: So this is effectively an interrupt. If you don't make the safe, can you still use Riposte/Parry when the enemy actually attacks you? This ones better in melee especially against big burly guys with crappy dexterity.


I would say so.



Acrobatic Charge: Situationally useful, but nowhere near as good as someof the other abilities.


well yes... perhapce I should roll it and its advancment together?



Acrobatic Leap: See Acrobatic Charge. I just can't see this class using this all too often as I see it more as a hit&run class and charging stops you next to the enemy.


see above.



One Handed Rend: Useful early on, but unless its "for each two hits per round" the actualy ibcrease in points becomes less of a factor later and isn't good enough to use one of the few ability slots for it.


will add/clerify.



Scratch: This is the big one. The only thing that can stop this is DR but the options you get with it are phenomenal. And for the DR problem you have...


yep... Not sure if I should put a level prerequ on this, or some how limit it...



Bleeding Defenses: This one is somewhat strange. Usually you need to overcome DR to implement an effect and nothing in this says its different. But if you can overcome its DR why would you need so sacrifice valuable blood points to lower it? It could work if you are allowed to "Instead of dealing damage with a given attack you may lower the targets DR by the number of blood points the attack could have given to the target".


that... hmm, could work.



Feats: eh, better choices than that. Also, you mention weapon expertise twice.


well, as a rule feats are just not that good. willing to take suggestions.



My choices would be: Parry, Scratch, Bleeding Defenses, Riposte in that order most likely.

ok... that mean I should balence them more? or just your kind of charicter would grab those?

bobthe6th
2012-08-23, 05:26 PM
edited... any one else feeling like a PEACH?

bobthe6th
2012-09-23, 09:15 PM
bump pump lump

sirpercival
2012-09-27, 02:44 PM
Before I get to the real PEACH, I have a question about the first ability. Is it meant to give the additional attacks once per round, or to essentially multiply your attacks by the number of arms that you have?

bobthe6th
2012-09-27, 03:13 PM
Before I get to the real PEACH, I have a question about the first ability. Is it meant to give the additional attacks once per round, or to essentially multiply your attacks by the number of arms that you have?

the latter... do I need to make this clearer? this seems to be a common misconception. I am trying to make it in effect balanced against multi-weapon fighting, but with only one weapon.

sirpercival
2012-09-27, 03:28 PM
the latter... do I need to make this clearer? this seems to be a common misconception. I am trying to make it in effect balanced against multi-weapon fighting, but with only one weapon.

As part of my PEACH, I have a suggested rewrite for clarity. I just wanted to make sure what I was clarifying :smallwink:

Perturbulent
2012-09-28, 11:47 PM
Just wanna say, I really love this class. Fixes a lot of things, and allows for reasonable play of one handed characters.

bobthe6th
2012-09-29, 12:10 AM
see that? that is why I am addicted to homebrew. I make somthing for others to enjoy, and I get my praise kick out the other end.

also, those were my goals. with this kind of einhander fighting, you could make TWF properly unique/exotic. As a rule, fighting with two weapons is a pain in the ass, but worth it if you are skilled in the style.

bobthe6th
2013-01-07, 06:36 PM
Rise! Rise thread long thought dead, come I once more need you to gather the holy PEACH!

So, messed with some things, cleaned some other things... and in general made it better. So thoughts?

ArkenBrony
2013-01-07, 07:10 PM
ok, before the critique i must say, i absolutely love this class, i bookmarked it in one of its first iterations and this one is noticeably better than the last one, and i love it. great job!



Accurate flurry(Ex): At sixth level, a Razor learns to sacrifice accuracy for Constancy. At the start of the Razors turn he can chose to take a penalty to his first iterative attack to gain a bonus in his latter iterative attack(s). This trade is 1(penalty)-2(bonus). for the first 5 points of penalty, the bonus applies only to the last iterative attack in a full attack action. Every point after that applies to both the second to last and last iterative attack in a full attack action. The penalty is caped at -1 at sixth to tenth level, -3 at eleventh to fifteenth level, and -5 from sixteenth level on. The penalty also applies to all attacks made during the round outside of the full attack.

this is worded weirdly with the limit, according to what the ability says, you can't get a penalty greater then -5, so the bolded ability doesnt ever take effect


Attack on Preparation:(requires Parry and Riposte) When a foe declares an attack on you, you may make a reflex save. This uses one of your attacks of opportunity for the round. If you reflex save beats DC 10+1/2 foes BAB+foes dexterity modifier, you may make a standard action against the foe (this can be an attack, a disarm attempt, a trip attempt ect. but not any action that directly affects the foe. A tangle foot bag is entirely legitimate, a move action away is not.)


does this negate the attack? if not then does it work with riposte?



Rapid Strike (Ex): At first level, a Razor learns the art of attacking quickly with one hand. Whenever he makes an attack with a weapon held in one hand, with nothing in his other(s) hand(s), and when not attacking with any natural weapons, he may make an additional attack per off hand empty. This attack(s) is considered the same attack bonuses and penalties of the original attack, except strike maneuvers unless they are meant for two weapon fighting do not initiate their effect on both attacks.

so, if you have 4 arms you get 4 attacks per attack you normally get?


Bleeding defenses: You may strip a foe of his natural defenses along with his blood. when you hit a foe with damage reduction, you may chose to suppress his damage reduction in place of bleed points. The amount of DR suppressed is equal to the number of bleed points you chose not to give. The damage reduction is suppressed until your next turn. The suppression is cumulative.
just a typo fix

bobthe6th
2013-01-07, 07:30 PM
ok, before the critique i must say, i absolutely love this class, i bookmarked it in one of its first iterations and this one is noticeably better than the last one, and i love it. great job!


thanks!



this is worded weirdly with the limit, according to what the ability says, you can't get a penalty greater then -5, so the bolded ability doesn't ever take effect


ok, I flipped the two, now it should do what I meant it to. Also, now the cap is BAB based, as intended.



does this negate the attack? if not then does it work with riposte?


No, and I should clarify. the ability is meant to be a separate, though they both could be used at once. If you have the AoOs, you could use attack on preparation and follow it up with a parry, and end the chain with a riposte. It just burns two AoOs, and you have to make a reflex save and an attack roll.



so, if you have 4 arms you get 4 attacks per attack you normally get?


yep... though I might see removing this given the abuse of things that add arms. Or a note saying that non racial arms are not familiar enough to use with it. So yes the thri keen suffering massive LA and RHD gets more attacks, but you can't do it with a blessing of the Girallon spell.

that sound right?


just a typo fix

after I spend like an hour fixing things... dammit. fixed.

ArkenBrony
2013-01-07, 07:33 PM
thanks!

no problem, it really i great


ok, I flipped the two, now it should do what I meant it to. Also, now the cap is BAB based, as intended.

cool


No, and I should clarify. the ability is meant to be a separate, though they both could be used at once. If you have the AoOs, you could use attack on preparation and follow it up with a parry, and end the chain with a riposte. It just burns two AoOs, and you have to make a reflex save and an attack roll.

sounds good


yep... though I might see removing this given the abuse of things that add arms. Or a note saying that non racial arms are not familiar enough to use with it. So yes the thri keen suffering massive LA and RHD gets more attacks, but you can't do it with a blessing of the Girallon spell.

that sound right?

sounds reasonable


after I spend like an hour fixing things... dammit. fixed.
happens to all of us

bobthe6th
2013-01-07, 08:02 PM
So... would adding a ninja like progression to speed step make sense? So it starts at normal invisibility when under ludicrous speed and running/charging, and moves up to quantum tunneling induced ethirialness at 18?

also, would it be to much to add a non psionic "up the walls" to the class at 4?

ArkenBrony
2013-01-07, 08:05 PM
So... would adding a ninja like progression to speed step make sense? So it starts at normal invisibility when under ludicrous speed and running/charging, and moves up to quantum tunneling induced ethirialness at 18?

also, would it be to much to add a non psionic "up the walls" to the class at 4?

i dont know what up the walls does, but the invisibility progression would be a good thing to add, i think

bobthe6th
2013-01-07, 08:31 PM
Up the Walls lets you move up vertical surfaces like flat ground, but you have to end your movement on a horizontal surface. It requires you be psionicly focused.

ArkenBrony
2013-01-07, 08:33 PM
seems reasonable, i think it'd be good to add

edit: are you thinking of doing anything with your mindbender? that was really cool and i'd love to see it expanded upon

bobthe6th
2013-01-07, 09:06 PM
added things, changed some names... now you get normal invisibility at 9, true invisibility at 13, and ethirial at 18.

also, mindbender is probably going to be tweaked the next time I get the urge to brew.

ArkenBrony
2013-01-07, 09:23 PM
looks good, hopefully more people will comment :smallwink:
can't wait for the mindbender

Amoren
2013-01-21, 09:29 PM
Hmmm, I'll give this a looks see. First off, I see the direction you're trying to take it - and I recommend you look at the Swashbuckler (Complete Warrior) and Duelest (DMG/SRD) for some inspiration. Some of their abilities could work on your class since they typically fill the same archetype. That and I think taking some inspiration from them might help, there doesn't seem to be any intelligence synergy with this class, or dex for that matter. And both of these stats are typically what you'd expect out of a duelist/swashbuckler type this class seems to fit into. The fact that he can wear and use light or medium armor with his ability set is also weird, especially considering things such as Evasion are limited to light armor, and especially given this class is described and handled like a quick striking light fighter. Perhaps limit it to light armor, but also include something like the Duelest Ability to give intelligence modifier to AC? But, that aside...

Rapid Strike: The rules seem a bit complex, maybe you should have it function like an alternative version of the Monk's Flurry of Blows, using the Razor's weapon and working on a standard action? I know it doesn't support multi-armed races, but that's a very niche situation to put into the base ability, and also could be broken. A Tri-Keen, for example, would gain 4 attacks in a standard action, when usually they would only gain the benefits of their extra arms in a full attack action (I believe). And then throw in the fact that this happens every attack, they essentially can get 16 attacks in one round.

Bleeding Cuts: The whole talk and reliance on Bleeding Points seems very superfluous and unneeded. It can be pretty easily summed up as "Whenever the Razor deals lethal damage to an enemy, he strikes them with a Bleeding Wound. From then on, at the start of the enemy's turn he takes one point of bleeding damage (bleeding damage isn't reduced by damage reduction). Multiple wounds stack for additional bleed damage. Additionally, whenever the Razor deals damage with a critical strike, the wound deals extra bleeding damage per round dependent on the weapon's critical strike modifier (2 for x2, 3 for x3, etc)."

It makes it much simpler and uses the system already in place by the game for handling bleed damage. If your concerned about the bleed effect being too easily negated with magical or mundane healing, then you can add additional class features. For example, making the heal check harder (DC 15 + amount of bleed damage per turn), requiring the person magically healing the wound to make the heal check. And perhaps even making it so that any magical healing has to heal the bleed damage 'stack' rather than hit points first.

Fast Footwork: This seems... Well, simultaneously too complicated and too powerful, perhaps. Maybe something similar to the Dervish Dance (also, Complete Warrior) should be more in order? Allow the Razor to take a free five foot step after every attack in a full attack action? Then again, I might just be biased against ten foot steps.

Riposte: This could also use a bit of... simpler language and toning down. Options are good, but perhaps it should be an immediate reaction attack or maneuver with the Razor's weapon? It at least makes the wording a bit smoother than giving the person an immediate standard action in the middle of the enemy's turn.

Attack on Preparation: This seems a bit much when you get a free attack with your Riposte, most likely. I get the whole quick, multiple attacks, but still...

Ludicrous Speed: Nothing major here, however I think you should remove the stipulation of "This works like Haste, except Speed weapon enhancement works during it" to Speed Cut. A bit simpler, but it also prevents the Razor from using a Speed Weapon to extra attacks earlier in his career.

bobthe6th
2013-01-21, 10:23 PM
Sweet a response.


Hmmm, I'll give this a looks see. First off, I see the direction you're trying to take it - and I recommend you look at the Swashbuckler (Complete Warrior) and Duelest (DMG/SRD) for some inspiration. Some of their abilities could work on your class since they typically fill the same archetype. That and I think taking some inspiration from them might help, there doesn't seem to be any intelligence synergy with this class, or dex for that matter. And both of these stats are typically what you'd expect out of a duelist/swashbuckler type this class seems to fit into. The fact that he can wear and use light or medium armor with his ability set is also weird, especially considering things such as Evasion are limited to light armor, and especially given this class is described and handled like a quick striking light fighter. Perhaps limit it to light armor, but also include something like the Duelest Ability to give intelligence modifier to AC? But, that aside...

I did look into both... and the swashbuckler got raided for the ability damage on crits in higher levels, and the special for running over difficult terrain. Otherwise, both classes are made of junk. Additional damage is covered by bleeding damage.


Also, AC is covered by making it very easy to SAD dex... though I could see offering an unarmored variant(all others will just wear ok, no your right. I have no idea why I gave them medium armor. I will give them light armor, and Int to AC if they are unarmored.

The rest is covered by the TWD stand in and extreme mobility.




Rapid Strike: The rules seem a bit complex, maybe you should have it function like an alternative version of the Monk's Flurry of Blows, using the Razor's weapon and working on a standard action? I know it doesn't support multi-armed races, but that's a very niche situation to put into the base ability, and also could be broken. A Tri-Keen, for example, would gain 4 attacks in a standard action, when usually they would only gain the benefits of their extra arms in a full attack action (I believe). And then throw in the fact that this happens every attack, they essentially can get 16 attacks in one round.

Ok, first the rules are complex because I am making a working version of TWF. Flurry of blows is bad, even if you give it to standard action attacks. Also, Thri-keen pay like six levels to have 4 arms... I like to give them some support. And rapid strike explicitly should explicitly dosn't not stack...(damn damn DAMN! I swear I put that line in at some point.) unless you are talking at level 16+(epic for all races with 4 hands), and people don't care how many attacks you make.



Bleeding Cuts: The whole talk and reliance on Bleeding Points seems very superfluous and unneeded. It can be pretty easily summed up as "Whenever the Razor deals lethal damage to an enemy, he strikes them with a Bleeding Wound. From then on, at the start of the enemy's turn he takes one point of bleeding damage (bleeding damage isn't reduced by damage reduction). Multiple wounds stack for additional bleed damage. Additionally, whenever the Razor deals damage with a critical strike, the wound deals extra bleeding damage per round dependent on the weapon's critical strike modifier (2 for x2, 3 for x3, etc)."


That paragraph is as long or longer then the bleeding cuts description.



It makes it much simpler and uses the system already in place by the game for handling bleed damage. If your concerned about the bleed effect being too easily negated with magical or mundane healing, then you can add additional class features. For example, making the heal check harder (DC 15 + amount of bleed damage per turn), requiring the person magically healing the wound to make the heal check. And perhaps even making it so that any magical healing has to heal the bleed damage 'stack' rather than hit points first.


It a) isn't any simpler, and b) I think that the only ways bleeding damage is dealt is be bearded devils, or an obscure weapon property.




Fast Footwork: This seems... Well, simultaneously too complicated and too powerful, perhaps. Maybe something similar to the Dervish Dance (also, Complete Warrior) should be more in order? Allow the Razor to take a free five foot step after every attack in a full attack action? Then again, I might just be biased against ten foot steps.


I think it is the latter. I don't want the class to have to use a barbarian dip or a level of warblade to get pounce/sudden leap.



Riposte: This could also use a bit of... simpler language and toning down. Options are good, but perhaps it should be an immediate reaction attack or maneuver with the Razor's weapon? It at least makes the wording a bit smoother than giving the person an immediate standard action in the middle of the enemy's turn.


Well, there is the option of sunder or trip... or throwing weapons. It is already limited to one of those options.



Attack on Preparation: This seems a bit much when you get a free attack with your Riposte, most likely. I get the whole quick, multiple attacks, but still...


It costs an AOO(which it could have a few of with high DEX focus and Combat reflexes), so you arn't getting another free attack... you are just spending it at a better time.



Ludicrous Speed: Nothing major here, however I think you should remove the stipulation of "This works like Haste, except Speed weapon enhancement works during it" to Speed Cut. A bit simpler, but it also prevents the Razor from using a Speed Weapon to extra attacks earlier in his career.

Hmm... you may have a point.

bobthe6th
2013-03-10, 12:08 AM
bumping this, as I suspect it could use another look over.

Maquise
2013-03-18, 07:52 PM
Everything looks alright to me. The class does what it is made to do.

anacalgion
2013-03-18, 08:30 PM
One quick question before I get too far into this. Out of combat, it's basically got the 4+int skill point and that's it, right? Just want to make sure I didn't miss something.

bobthe6th
2013-03-18, 08:52 PM
One quick question before I get too far into this. Out of combat, it's basically got the 4+int skill point and that's it, right? Just want to make sure I didn't miss something.

That, and a silly move speed... and the flash steping... and wall running...

but yeah, mostly the skills.

anacalgion
2013-03-18, 09:29 PM
Glossed over just how awesome the movement stuff gets, my bad. Looks pretty sound mechanically (I'm no number wizard but by the looks of other posts you've put a lot of work into giving it viable but not too crazy damage) and I love the flavor. I don't generally like base classes that much, but this looks like a lot of fun to play, and a really cool take on non ToB combat. I can definetly see this being useful for a campaign I'm piecing together, if that's alright. I'm a little curious as to how you'd fluff bleeding skeletons, but other than that it looks awesome. All in all a job well done.

ArkenBrony
2013-03-18, 09:43 PM
it could be fluffed as piercing the bone in a way that the skeleton cracks and crumbles apart as it moves

bobthe6th
2013-03-18, 09:54 PM
Bleeding negative energy, as the threads of the ritual binding the animating energies falls apart.

Xhosant
2013-03-23, 11:15 AM
Generally speaking: in D&D, DoTs (damage over time) are too weak on the typical small-fry battle, and too strong versus a larger opponent.

Math below:

Imagine that you're dealing, say, a third the typical damage in bleed points. Assume you focus 1 enemy: If he lives 1 round, you've dealt 1/3 the typical damage. If he lives 2, you've dealt 1/3 +1/3 from last round, +1/3 this round of 1-round damage (so, the damage of 1 round) in 2 rounds. Going to 3, you have 2/3(past flat damage)+1/3(past dots)+2/3(current dots)+1/3(current flat damage). In other words, if N is the numbers of rounds he is alive and under your barrage, you deal to him

N/3(direct)+((N-1)/3)!(dots) the average damage dealt by another class in 1 round.

Note that N!=N*(N-1)*(N-2)*...*1, and is notorious for growing very, very fast. For example, 4!=36, 5!=120, 6!=720.


The point being:

If we call a "fighter round"(FR) the damage a fighter has dealt after 1 round, and "razor round"(RR) the damage a razor has dealt after 1 round, both while bashing, without misses, a single target, then:

If 1RR=1/3FR (so, in the 1st round of combat, the razor deals a third of the damage a fighter would deal. then:
7RR=4.3FR (razor is weak compared to fighter)
10RR=9.3FR (razor has almost caught up)
11RR=12FR (razor just did more damage than the fighter, by 1 round)
12RR=18FR (in just 1 extra round, the razor did the damage a fighter needs 6 rounds to do)
15RR=73FR In game time, you've just dealt in a minute and a quarter the damage another would deal in 7.3 minutes of uninterrupted bashing. Let's not calculate 20 rounds.

So, at bellow 11 rounds, the razor is between slightly weak and horribad. Most enemies won't last that long, though, so we can say your damage is usually just horribad. But given 1 more round, you become considerably overpowered, and given just 3 more you've just dealt damage to the setting's fabric. And the haste you have access to decreases the rounds needed for that.

If we're looking at many enemies instead, the total damage dealt to all of them before 1 dies is the same as the above. After that your damage grows much more slowly (since more will start dieing to their wounds), so you can't reach the point where you're useful. Misses mean your "damage growth" is slowed, but you lose less damage than a fighter would, so you're still OP. If we boost your damage (to, say, 3/4 of a fighter) the issue's the same: You become useful faster, but are still too weak before then, and become too powerful even faster. At damage equal to a fighter's, 5 rounds let you deal the damage he deals in 41.

TL;DR: versus a goblin ambush, a lvl1 commoner trumps you. Versus an Omnipotent-Ancient-Dragon-Lich-Godly-Power-Absorbing-Thingy you win and proceed to cause the apocalypse while all along spending your move actions on Perform(Kazoo) checks. You are impossible to balance, because even when useless in almost every encounter, you are incredibly powerful versus the very rare, difficult and important one.

EDIT: Ok, i slightly misunderstood the way bleeding is applied, thinking you add a bleeding point per point of damage. Although this adds some stability (your weak damage is less weak, and your strong one less strong) the issue above still stands: the bleed damage remains between negligible and extreme only for very few rounds, and most fights won't reach that point. Also, the many-double-free-steps feature scales out of hand, making you faster, less hindered, and immune to opportunity attacks at all times than most, on the sole condition that you save your move action for something else (namely, full-round attacks so you can inflict bleeding faster). At level 20 you can cross a group of an entire encounter's enemies safely, and attack up to 5 of them or put some considerable bleeding on one at any point along the path.

bobthe6th
2013-03-23, 12:52 PM
EDIT: Ok, i slightly misunderstood the way bleeding is applied, thinking you add a bleeding point per point of damage. Although this adds some stability (your weak damage is less weak, and your strong one less strong) the issue above still stands: the bleed damage remains between negligible and extreme only for very few rounds, and most fights won't reach that point. Also, the many-double-free-steps feature scales out of hand, making you faster, less hindered, and immune to opportunity attacks at all times than most, on the sole condition that you save your move action for something else (namely, full-round attacks so you can inflict bleeding faster). At level 20 you can cross a group of an entire encounter's enemies safely, and attack up to 5 of them or put some considerable bleeding on one at any point along the path.

...This is a bad thing? So, a damage overtime is good in boss fights, and able to dance through the foe in large scale fights? It is a class that specializes in mobility and a large number of attacks that cause DoT. So it is overpowered because it is good at killing bosses and silly mobility? Level 20 is the god level, unless he is really good, I don't see why anyone would go Razor 20.

Also, you forget fast healing... and regeneration. Or even normal healing. Just give the litch a casting of Harm or a goblin cleric minion.