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Zaydos
2011-12-21, 07:04 PM
Yeah another one of those fighter fixes. Why?

I love Sword and Sorcery. The heroes in those tales are swordsmen, fighters. They do not crumple at a wizard's spell, breaking apart like wet paper. Instead they pull on some super-human reserve and push forward, breaking through such magic.

Now you could argue Warblade does this; Iron Heart has the abilities (although the wording of the relevant ability, Iron Heart Surge, is odd and leaves the most important abilities daze, stun, and mind control unsurpassable because you can't or wouldn't use it in those situations). In fact I'd make that argument. So why do this? Because me and my little brother started talking and I did it and I might as well post it.

So here's my attempt at a fighter that fulfills the determinator archetype. He doesn't surrender, doesn't yield, and will keep on fighting. To build this I borrowed liberally from the Knight, whose high level abilities were especially appropriate, and some from the barbarian's defensive abilities as I was basing it heavily on Conan who despite not having any other barbarian abilities had Uncanny Dodge. Another self imposed limitation on this was no messing with 1st level or even numbered levels. Hopefully it's fourth tier; I think it actually cannot fulfill the prerequisites for third tier as it lacks the versatility which is that tier's hallmark. In short this character is supposed to be a tough warrior which lacks the offensive powers of a barbarian (pounce, rage) but gains extreme levels of defensive ability.

So without further rambling:

The Heroic Warrior

HD type: d12.

Class Skills: Autohypnosis (Wis), Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (History) (Int), Knowledge (Local), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), and Use Rope (Dex).

Skill Points per Level: 4 + Int modifier.



Level
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Special


1st
+1
+2
+0
+2
Bonus Feat


2nd
+2
+3
+0
+3
Bonus Feat


3rd
+3
+3
+1
+3
Uncanny Dodge, Master of Arms


4th
+4
+4
+1
+4
Bonus Feat


5th
+5
+4
+1
+4
Master of Armor +1, Master of Arms


6th
+6/+1
+5
+2
+5
Bonus Feat


7th
+7/+2
+5
+2
+5
Force of Will, Master of Arms


8th
+8/+3
+6
+2
+6
Bonus Feat


9th
+9/+4
+6
+3
+6
Improved Uncanny Dodge, Master of Armor +2, Master of Arms


10th
+10/+5
+7
+3
+7
Bonus Feat


11th
+11/+6/+1
+7
+3
+7
Mettle, Master of Arms


12th
+12/+7/+2
+8
+4
+8
Bonus Feat


13th
+13/+8/+3
+8
+4
+8
Master of Tactics, Master of Armor +3


14th
+14/+9/+4
+9
+4
+9
Bonus Feat


15th
+15/+10/+5
+9
+5
+9
Spell Resistance, Master of Arms


16th
+16/+11/+6/+1
+10
+5
+10
Bonus Feat


17th
+17/+12/+7/+2
+10
+5
+10
Heroic Endurance, Master of Armor +4, Master of Arms


18th
+18/+13/+8/+3
+11
+6
+11
Bonus Feat


19th
+19/+14/+9/+4
+11
+6
+11
Fight Beyond Death, Master of Arms


20th
+20/+15/+10/+5
+12
+6
+12
Bonus Feat



Class Features:

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: All armors and shields (including tower shields) as well as all simple and martial weapons.

Bonus Feat: At 1st level, 2nd level, and every 2 levels thereafter a heroic warrior gets a bonus feat from the fighter bonus feat list. They may also select fighter alternate class features which would normally be taken in place of a feat, but must have a class level of at least the level where a fighter may take that class feature.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 3rd level a Heroic Warrior's battle instincts have evolved to such a point that he can react to danger before his senses would normally allow. He retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if he is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, he still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.

If a heroic warrior already has uncanny dodge from a different class he automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead.

Master of Arms: Beginning at 3rd level a Heroic Warrior counts as a fighter of his class level for the purposes of feat prerequisites. In addition he gains Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Weapon Focus, or Weapon Specialization as a bonus feat with any one weapon he meets the prerequisites for.
At 5th level and every odd numbered level thereafter he gains another Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Weapon Focus, or Weapon Specialization as a bonus feat.

Master of Armor: A herioc warrior knows how to place their armor between them and an attack, using his movement and the armors to avoid blows. At 5th level a Heroic Warrior gains a +1 dodge bonus to AC when wearing armor and reduces armor check penalties by the same amount. At 9th level, 13th level, and 17th level this bonus increases by +1, but it can never be greater than the base armor bonus from the armor (not including enhancement bonus), in addition the maximum Dexterity modifier of any armor he wears is considered to be +1 higher for every +2 from this ability. So a Lv 17 heroic warrior in studded leather would only gain a +3 from this ability, even though it can add +4, with no armor check penalty and a maximum Dexterity modifier of +7.

Force of Will (Ex):A heroic warrior's sheer heroic will power allows them to shrug off most effects. Starting at 7th level if a Heroic Warrior fails a save against a non-instantaneous spell or ability he re-rolls the saving throw one round later against the same DC. If a heroic warrior voluntarily failed the initial saving throw this ability does not take effect.

Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): A heroic warrior of 9th level or higher can no longer be flanked.

This defense denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack the character by flanking him, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target has heroic warrior levels.

If a character already has uncanny dodge from a second class, the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead, and the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum rogue level required to flank the character.

Mettle (Ex): A heroic warrior of 11th level or higher can shrug off blows more easily than normal men. If they make a successful Fort or Will save against an effect which allows a saving throw for partial or half effect they instead take no effect from the spell or ability.

Master of Tactics (Ex): A heroic warrior of 13th level or higher has mastered the various art-forms of combat unlike any other. When making a grapple check, or an opposed roll (on either side) as part of a bull rush, disarm, overrun, sunder, or trip attempt a heroic warrior gains a +2 insight bonus +2 more per size category larger the opponent is than the heroic warrior. In addition when making an opposed roll as part of a feint or being feinted a heroic warrior gains a +2 insight bonus to the roll.

Spell Resistance (Su): A heroic warrior of 15th level or higher is extremely resistant to spells gaining Spell Resistance equal to his class levels +12.

Heroic Endurance (Ex): A heroic warrior of at least 17th level is more able to shrug off dangerous blows. Beginning at 17th level they no longer automatically fail saving throws on a natural one, although if the DC is higher than their modified roll they still fail.

Fight Beyond Death (Ex): A heroic warrior does not die easily. Beginning at 19th level a heroic warrior may fight normally at negative hit points and automatically stabilizes. In addition 1/day if they would die in such a way as to leave their body intact they may continue fighting for 1 round +1 round per point of Constition modifier (minimum 1 round). While in this state they are immune to fear, and cannot be knocked unconscious by subdual damage. If the cause of death is hit point or Constitution damage and it is healed to survivable levels (-9 hp or 1 Con) before the end of this ability they do not die, otherwise they fall dead at the end of the duration.

Epic Heroic Warrior
{table=head]Level|Special
21st|Master of Armor +5, Master of Arms
22nd|Bonus Feat
23rd|Master of Arms
24th|Bonus Feat
25th|Master of Armor +6, Master of Arms
26th|Bonus Feat
27th|Master of Arms
28th|Bonus Feat
29th|Master of Armor +7, Master of Arms
30th|Bonus Feat[/table]

Master of Arms: An epic heroic warrior may also select Greater Weapon Focus and Greater Weapon Specialization through the use of Master of Arms.

Bonus Feat: An epic heroic warrior uses the same list as an epic fighter.


Not the best fighter fix on these forums, but it could be a fun one for the Determinator style character.

NeoSeraphi
2011-12-21, 08:05 PM
Definitely needs a capstone. If you can't think of one, you should move Fight Beyond Death back one level. Just because 20th level need to be satisfying.

The class itself looks great. It's pretty hard to screw up a fighter fix, seeing as the original has nine dead levels, pretty much whatever you put up is going to be better than that. Still, as far as fighter fixes go, this one is good.

Master of Arms: Weapon Focus/Weapon Specialization as a bonus feat for any one weapon he is proficient with. Also, for completeness's sake, I suggest also allowing the character to take Exotic Weapon Proficiency at any one of these levels.

Master of Armor: The problem here is that Dodge bonuses are lost when armor bonuses are not. So you're saying "Argh! I'm super good with my armor but if you catch me by surprise, I'm only as good as a normal guy!" This makes sense fluff-wise, if the ability is supposed to involve some kind of tactical movement, but if it just involves maintenance and how the guy walks and moves in his armor, it should be an untyped bonus instead of a Dodge bonus.

Spell Resistance: This is generally supposed to be 11/12+level. 10+level gives you a 50% defense against spells cast by a caster who is equal to your HD. How often does the DM actually throw people at you who are equal to your level, instead of 2-3 levels higher? Raising it a few points isn't game-breaking, considering all the ways there are to raise a caster level.

Hiro Protagonest
2011-12-21, 10:46 PM
Spell Resistance: This is generally supposed to be 11/12+level. 10+level gives you a 50% defense against spells cast by a caster who is equal to your HD. How often does the DM actually throw people at you who are equal to your level, instead of 2-3 levels higher? Raising it a few points isn't game-breaking, considering all the ways there are to raise a caster level.

Drow actually have 10+level, after LA. I can't think of any other examples.

NeoSeraphi
2011-12-21, 11:00 PM
Drow actually have 10+level, after LA. I can't think of any other examples.

Why should you consider LA? It's 12+HD. LA has never factored into any other HD calculations before, to my knowledge.

Since you asked, here we go. Bearded devil is 11+HD, Bone Devil is 11+HD, Chain Devil is 10+HD, Erinyes is 11+HD, Hellcat is 11+HD, monk is 10+CL, Pit fiend is 14+HD, Ice Devil is 11+HD, Horned Devil is 13+HD, babau is 7+HD, Balor is 8+HD, Glabrezu is 9+HD, Hezrou is 9+HD, Marilith is 9+HD, Nalfeshnee is 8+HD, Succubus is 12+HD, Vrock is 7+HD.

Wow, I had no idea demons were getting screwed over this badly. But there you go. Apparently, if you're lawful, the average is 11+HD, and if you're chaotic, the average is 8+HD. Who knew spell resistance was determined by alignment?

nonsi
2011-12-22, 02:49 AM
Not a bad fix, but could use some improvements.

I would make the following changes to this particular fix:
- Also grant Master of Arms at 1st level.
- Make it a bit easier for a fighter to qualify for feats based on ability scores and BAB (something like: reduce the required value by 2 + 1/5th Fighter level).
- Master of Armor improvement at every level divisible by 4 and also use it to reduce ACP.
- Add a feature or two to deal with the Fighter's action economy problems and boost maneuver superiority (bull rush, disarm, trip etc).
- Add Balance, Heal, Knowledge (dungeoneering), Sense Motive and Tumble as class skills.

Zaydos
2011-12-22, 03:25 AM
About Spell Resistance: I gave them 10 + Spell level as that means mook monsters with SLAs, and minor spellcasters will have a good chance of failure while major encounters will have a better than 50% chance of failure. I did forget to take into account Assay Spell Resistance, though, so I am upping it to 12 + Class level and even that just means "the boss will use that on me if it is available"; that said taking a wizard's swift action is a good thing. Does mean that at Lv 18 you actually have a decent chance of not being totally messed up by a pit fiend and its at-will Blasphemy (although even then the pit fiend needs an ally).

@NeoSeraphi: The reason Fight Beyond Death isn't a level 20 ability already is that I'm trying to avoid messing with even numbered levels in the least (odd quirk, I know). I might change that as I'm getting more into this fix.

The change to Master of Arms has been made.

Master of Armor is supposed to be tactical positioning more than maintanence which is why it is a dodge bonus (also does Uncanny Dodge allowing you to keep your Dex bonus to AC help you keep your Dodge bonus? I've always played that way, but now I'm not 100% sure if it is RAW); I added a bit to the description but I'm not sure how much it helps.

Also demons get jipped in another way; I can only think of 1 demon with regeneration (long story short I was writing a prologue for an adventure I'm running half of and I needed something with eElectricity immunity and regeneration from all but holy weapons... it ended up a short novel), it's common on devils with ice and horned devils and pit fiends all having it in the Monster Manual.

Also quick glance at the MM: All demons with SR have 8 + CR except Succubus (11 + CR), while all devils with SR have 12 + CR.

@nonsi:
I am not giving Master of Arms at first level for the simple reason that a 1 or 2 level fighter dip is already quite good and this is better (2 more skill points, better skill list, good Will, 1 more hit point) with the modifications made to Master of Arms adding free Spiked Chain proficiency might be a little too much. Maybe give it at 1st level in its original version but I do like the idea of encouraging them to pick up exotic weapons, hopefully ones other than just spiked chain.

Master of Armor is at 5th level to avoid being on even numbered levels (call it a minor madness of mine), but I did add a clause for ACP reduction and Max Dex increase.

Thanks for the idea for a 13th level ability. While it doesn't exactly boost superiority, it prevents enemies from getting too big of an advantage from superior size.

*looks at skills* I took sense motive off again, huh? Yeah the skill list actually probably had the most time put into it and Concentration, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Heal, Knowledge (Dungeoneering), Sense Motive and Tumble have all moved on and off of it at least once each. Never once thought about adding Balance. After some considering (and remembering that Tumble doesn't work in Medium armor unless you're a dwarf) Balance, Heal, Knowledge (dungeoneering), Sense Motive, and Tumble are back on. I'm tempted to add Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) thanks to everyone's favorite Fighter.

Mulletmanalive
2011-12-22, 09:34 AM
Is it not possible to take the more advanced forms of Weapon Focus/Specialisation with Master of Arms?

Iknow there are much better things to do with a feat but the choice between focusing or spreading your wings would be nice.

If you're going to give out Autohypnosis, Concentration would make sense, especially as the ability to use Psionic feats feels relatively martial, for the most part.

Siosilvar
2011-12-22, 12:36 PM
Why should you consider LA? It's 12+HD. LA has never factored into any other HD calculations before, to my knowledge.

-snip

Wow, I had no idea demons were getting screwed over this badly. But there you go. Apparently, if you're lawful, the average is 11+HD, and if you're chaotic, the average is 8+HD. Who knew spell resistance was determined by alignment?
CR is better here than HD, because HD varies with CR even within the same creature type (devils have HD that is +/- 1 of CR, and other creatures tend to be worse).

Drow: 10 + CR (with PC levels), 11 + CR without
9 + HD including LA, 11 + HD without

All devils with SR: 12 + CR

Succubus: 11 + CR
All other demons with SR: 8 + CR

Angels: 16, 14, 9 + CR (18, 16, 10 + HD)
Hound Archon: 12 + CR (10 + HD)
Trumpet Archon: 15 + CR (17 + HD)
Formians: 15, 14, 15, 13 + CR (14, 15, 13, 10 + HD)
Rakshasa: 17 + CR (20 + HD)
Nightshades: 13 + CR (6, 8, 10 + HD)

This is by no means a complete list, even of those monsters in the first MM.